2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Specter01 on June 27, 2020, 12:58:12 PM
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It's coming.
https://gyazo.com/b93d52627f2f86fd24f7ec7127e2479a
I know that Duncan v Becerra is still in the works but you should probably stock just in case.
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I bought $400 worth of mags today, including for guns I don't own yet. You never know how things will go with the courts and the presidential election. Locally, I'm optimistic on the gun rights environment in the short and medium terms will stop a total mag ban. People are getting more active in gun rights, we're on track to stop a big gun control bill this year, and elections are looking good here. However if we don't win a mag ban case in court, then it'll be a long while till we can buy them again.
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i have a question...
If the mag ban does happen will it go into effect asap or will we have leeway until it goes into affect?
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i have a question...
If the mag ban does happen will it go into effect asap or will we have leeway until it goes into affect?
Effective when the governor signs it.
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Effective when the governor signs it.
Thanks!
Anyone want to split a case (100) of AR-15 PMags with me?
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I was thinking over getting AK platform mags, but I'll probably never get one.
The folks at HGS have choke mags, just bought a bunch from them. I don't know if Xring is still doing that buy 4 get 1 free deal. That was last week, but I'll check tomorrow if they're open.
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Let's talk Duncan v Becerra. If that gets resolved, wouldn't all of this be pointless? I think they would only do this if they knew things would fall into their favor or they don't give a shit and just want to delay things as far and as much as they can for people.
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I was thinking over getting AK platform mags, but I'll probably never get one.
The folks at HGS have choke mags, just bought a bunch from them. I don't know if Xring is still doing that buy 4 get 1 free deal. That was last week, but I'll check tomorrow if they're open.
"Free" mags cost too much (i.e. membership fees).
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How is this enforced?
Are mags gonna be serialized if current ones are grandfathered?
What if I get em shipped after the ban to me as parts kits from mainland?
Sorry, this is the first I’m hearing of this
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How is this enforced?
Are mags gonna be serialized if current ones are grandfathered?
What if I get em shipped after the ban to me as parts kits from mainland?
Sorry, this is the first I’m hearing of this
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20200305/hawaii-senate-passes-mag-ban-ammo-restrictions#:~:text=Senate%20Bill%202519%20SD%202,any%20transfer%20other%20than%20inheritance.
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How is this enforced?
Are mags gonna be serialized if current ones are grandfathered?
What if I get em shipped after the ban to me as parts kits from mainland?
Sorry, this is the first I’m hearing of this
As far as enforcement, the ONLY way to allow the grandfathered mags is, as you said, to serialize them and have the serial numbers recorded on or with the firearm registration. Without that, there's no way to tell if the mag was acquired after the ban unless (1) the Cops caught you receiving the mag after the ban date, or (2) if they can tell the date of manufacture was after that date.
I'd love for a couple thousand family members who don't own a single firearm to show up at HPD on one day to register a magazine they were "gifted". :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: If HPD tries to use the firearm registry as a vehicle for mag registration, that'll throw a giant monkey wrench into the works.
When it comes to parts kits, a disassembled magazine holds exactly zero rounds -- perfectly legal. :thumbsup:
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The primary means of enforcement is through retailers. None can sell them so none can get them--unless they go through the illegal black market, which for some reason laws can't seem to affect. Online retailers? They can refuse to sell you.
Serialized it? That will fucking take forever.
If you own PMAGS those things have manufacturing date on the side, so if it's made on or after the law was signed, you in deep doodoo. Hexmags have them too, I think. I don't know about the rest.
Just buy the really old metal STANAG ones. No dates on the older ones.
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Its not illegal to remove the dates on ALL mags.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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Its not illegal to remove the dates on ALL mags.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Yeah, sounds about right. So then there's really no way of proving you bought after the law other than the police watching you buying one.
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Its so stupid do these guys even think things through or do they just pass laws what idiots. No one is going to listen to this and im not gunna serialize crap. Hope there is a clause in the law that says law enforcement is exempt!!!!!
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I believe it so that they can add more charges if you ever get in trouble
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I believe it so that they can add more charges if you ever get in trouble
I used to believe that until recently. Now my theory is, they pass laws like red flag BS so they can get a warrant to search your spaces. Even if the red flag hearing allows you to have your guns back, the state will use anything the Cops found in their search as a means to separate you from your guns.
RED FLAG REPORT ->
Cops get court order ->
Cops show up to take your guns ->
While searching for any "additional" guns or ammo, or other weapons that could threaten their safety, the Cops find a banned, unregistered mag ->
Court dismisses Red Flag complaint as unfounded ->
State prosecutes you for the contraband ->
You're now a felon ->
Your guns are gone for good.
Our gun laws are a mine field of felonies just waiting for you to step on one so the state can make everyone "safer!" :crazy:
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Time to join Inspector in AZ.
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Time to join Inspector in AZ.
Working on it. GD Chinese virus is keeping us off airplanes to go house hunting.
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I used to believe that until recently. Now my theory is, they pass laws like red flag BS so they can get a warrant to search your spaces. Even if the red flag hearing allows you to have your guns back, the state will use anything the Cops found in their search as a means to separate you from your guns.
RED FLAG REPORT ->
Cops get court order ->
Cops show up to take your guns ->
While searching for any "additional" guns or ammo, or other weapons that could threaten their safety, the Cops find a banned, unregistered mag ->
Court dismisses Red Flag complaint as unfounded ->
State prosecutes you for the contraband ->
You're now a felon ->
Your guns are gone for good.
Our gun laws are a mine field of felonies just waiting for you to step on one so the state can make everyone "safer!" :crazy:
Red flag laws itself are unconstitutional, as it directly violates the 4th amendment. You can have your property seized unlawfully based on lies--perhaps you have a neighbor or some damn Karen who hates your ass; they can petition to have your weapons taken under false pretenses, all without you knowing about it. Well, you'll know about it when only after the PD shows up to take your shit.
It as damn mystery why none of our leaders caught this glaring flaw in the law. I don't really think they even know the Constitution. Maybe they do, but then that would be worse.
Ladies and gentleman, we are having our democracy chipped away bit by bit. Soon it will be an autocracy. Why? Well, only autocrats work against Blackstone's Ratio.
Blackstone's Ratio states that it's better for 10 guilty to escape justice than for 1 innocent to suffer unjustly. The direct opposite, which is probably already the mentality of the modern times are, it's better for 10 innocent to suffer unjustly than 1 guilty to escape justice.
Don't fucking leave. That's why this state's gone to shit. People leave and take their talents elsewhere. That leaves us with not much. Not meaning to offend here, but our best don't stay here.
This is home. Let's both defend it and cultivate it.
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Red flag laws itself are unconstitutional, as it directly violates the 4th amendment. You can have your property seized unlawfully based on lies--perhaps you have a neighbor or some damn Karen who hates your ass; they can petition to have your weapons taken under false pretenses, all without you knowing about it. Well, you'll know about it when only after the PD shows up to take your shit.
It as damn mystery why none of our leaders caught this glaring flaw in the law. I don't really think they even know the Constitution. Maybe they do, but then that would be worse.
Ladies and gentleman, we are having our democracy chipped away bit by bit. Soon it will be an autocracy. Why? Well, only autocrats work against Blackstone's Ratio.
Blackstone's Ratio states that it's better for 10 guilty to escape justice than for 1 innocent to suffer unjustly. The direct opposite, which is probably already the mentality of the modern times are, it's better for 10 innocent to suffer unjustly than 1 guilty to escape justice.
Don't fucking leave. That's why this state's gone to shit. People leave and take their talents elsewhere. That leaves us with not much. Not meaning to offend here, but our best don't stay here.
This is home. Let's both defend it and cultivate it.
"This is home. Let's both defend it and cultivate it."
I knew when I moved here twenty years ago, that Hawaii is a third world schiff hole run by
the "Party" for the benefit of the "Party". That hasn't and won't change.
I live in the poorest county in Hawaii and the Honolulu government just made it poorer.
Funny that the government is still fully funded and are now the largest employer.
I will defend my home, I will cultivate, but keep my food to myself and friends.
And of course never violate any Constitutional Federal, state, or local laws.
PS. All those Californians moving to AZ are really screwing it up.
I'm sure Inspector made the best choice he could given the medical issues his family faced,
But AZ would not be my first choice.
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...I knew when I moved here twenty years ago, that Hawaii is a third world schiff hole run by
the "Party" for the benefit of the "Party". That hasn't and won't change.
It will never change if we keep losing people. I know Obama and Mariota had to leave to make their names shine, but can try at least to care enough about our home to make it more than fucking tourism and military. Hawaiians...your real enemy is Bishop Estate, selling off your land to foreigners. You think those condos with Hawaiian motifs going up around Kaka'ako are for locals? Rich locals and Chinese investors, yeah. But you no grumble. You sell your birthright for pottage.
I live in the poorest county in Hawaii and the Honolulu government just made it poorer.
And of course never violate any Constitutional Federal, state, or local laws.
Keep up the good fight, brother. When the smoke clears, people are going to have to rebuild their lives, and that's going to have to happen in spite of the Honolulu Government hamstringing everyone.
PS. All those Californians moving to AZ are really screwing it up.
I'm sure Inspector made the best choice he could given the medical issues his family faced,
But AZ would not be my first choice.
It's a certain type of Californian. The same types who made the Chaz; same types who are force-feeding us this bullshit.
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Red flag laws itself are unconstitutional, as it directly violates the 4th amendment. You can have your property seized unlawfully based on lies--perhaps you have a neighbor or some damn Karen who hates your ass; they can petition to have your weapons taken under false pretenses, all without you knowing about it. Well, you'll know about it when only after the PD shows up to take your shit.
It as damn mystery why none of our leaders caught this glaring flaw in the law. I don't really think they even know the Constitution. Maybe they do, but then that would be worse.
Ladies and gentleman, we are having our democracy chipped away bit by bit. Soon it will be an autocracy. Why? Well, only autocrats work against Blackstone's Ratio.
Blackstone's Ratio states that it's better for 10 guilty to escape justice than for 1 innocent to suffer unjustly. The direct opposite, which is probably already the mentality of the modern times are, it's better for 10 innocent to suffer unjustly than 1 guilty to escape justice.
Don't fucking leave. That's why this state's gone to shit. People leave and take their talents elsewhere. That leaves us with not much. Not meaning to offend here, but our best don't stay here.
This is home. Let's both defend it and cultivate it.
I wish it were that simple. There's not a strong demand for tech jobs or jobs that have a need for higher education. I think the bulk of jobs here in Hawaii are vocational. Tourism and construction with a sprinkling of defense - account for the economy.
People with good leadership skills are most likely found leading successful businesses.
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I wish it were that simple. There's not a strong demand for tech jobs or jobs that have a need for higher education. I think the bulk of jobs here in Hawaii are vocational. Tourism and construction with a sprinkling of defense - account for the economy.
People with good leadership skills are most likely found leading successful businesses.
Simple. That's our problem. We always trying to find simple solutions for big problems. Simple flew off the island a few months back and won't be returning.
We're going to need people to start things up. We've lost a lot of business all over the nation. In Hawaii, I noticed a lot of emptied out shops in downtown. Hell, the shop that I got my first bike from when I was 7 closed down during this--Eki Cycling. I thought that place was going to be there forever. It's gone.
A lot more are going to disappear before this is over and we need people willing to pick things back up again.
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I wish it were that simple. There's not a strong demand for tech jobs or jobs that have a need for higher education. I think the bulk of jobs here in Hawaii are vocational. Tourism and construction with a sprinkling of defense - account for the economy.
People with good leadership skills are most likely found leading successful businesses.
You pretty well nailed it.
I spent ten years in the Astronomy business,
I had to compete against people with PhD's.
there were so few positions.
Barking Sands, just try to get a high tech job there
without a PhD or know somebody.
If you aren't sponsored by somebody it, is nearly
impossible to get a PE license
in the state of Hawaii.
I could sign off on Aircraft design changes,
but in Hawaii I can't even add a circuit for an
outdoor light.
Even Vocational stuff here is tough.
If you are not family(Ohana) you will not get a job in the
Longshoreman's union
Period.
Try to get a government job if your last name
is Johnston rather than Chin or Kim or Matsuda.
That is why Hawaii fails it's true potential.
It is still a tribal society.
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Tell me about it.
After completing masonry and electrical apprenticeship's I was the building engineer for 4 years in an ACE Consortium accredited Art College which was in the Boston top 10.
When I moved to Hawaii, I could not get into either union nor obtain a managerial position.
My first pay check job in Hawaii was primarily selling cigarettes and condoms to trans hookers from a small convenience store on the corner of Kalakaua and Kuhio between the hours of 11 pm and 7 am.
Of course things have changed for us in the past 35+ years, but we made it happen.
I HIGHLY doubt we will remain here much longer.
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..Try to get a government job if your last name
is Johnston rather than Chin or Kim or Matsuda.
That is why Hawaii fails it's true potential.
It is still a tribal society...
You touched on one thing nobody likes talking about. Yeah, the Inouye old boy club still has a lot of sway here, but not as much as sway now that Joe Souki is out from politics. The ones in power now are the ones who ousted Souki. Honestly, I rather would have had them keep power than the ones who hold the reigns now. They the same ones letting people burn the past down.
I strayed off-topic. Mixing pot my ass, right?
We going to get some mixing because people going oof with each other and make babies. But the tribes going to be still out there, and they don't like outsiders.
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PS. All those Californians moving to AZ are really screwing it up.
I'm sure Inspector made the best choice he could given the medical issues his family faced,
But AZ would not be my first choice.
Maybe not, but a few of us can be a counterweight to those Calif liberals that bring their attitudes.
In Yavapai county where I am looking, it is not at all like Phoenix politically. Granted, Phoenix is a monster in the state like LA/SF, Portland, etc. But the outlying counties have a much stronger individualistic background.
Better to live out what years I have left in an area not feeling like I am behind enemy lines as here. My smattering of tactical gear makes my wife nervous as well.
"What do you need this for?" She does not like my answer.
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All else...make your own
https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/akf3lq/100_diy_ar15_30_round_magazine_project_update/
(https://preview.redd.it/4ji9hfgdp0d21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9617908f30b7dd7487d9557a477f4bdd2ef7a521)
After several months of experimentation, and three months of trials on my 'final' design, I am finally satisfied with my printed mags.
Every part is made from raw components - the body, follower, and baseplate/locking plate are printed, the spring is hand wound from .059" music wire on a 3d printable bending jig that I also developed. A standard capacity mag is available to anyone with a printer, square-edge file, and two pair of pliers.
I've been using DIY mags for three months now, and have yet to have on of the final designs fail. The one pictured has been through 300 rounds without issue.
Total cost to DIY everything pictured is 13 bucks.
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As long as they keep making laws that infringe on peoples rights, the people will find a way around them. They won't care if they are legal or not, they will do things to protect their families and property. The government be damned.
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All else...make your own
https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/akf3lq/100_diy_ar15_30_round_magazine_project_update/
(https://preview.redd.it/4ji9hfgdp0d21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=9617908f30b7dd7487d9557a477f4bdd2ef7a521)
After several months of experimentation, and three months of trials on my 'final' design, I am finally satisfied with my printed mags.
Every part is made from raw components - the body, follower, and baseplate/locking plate are printed, the spring is hand wound from .059" music wire on a 3d printable bending jig that I also developed. A standard capacity mag is available to anyone with a printer, square-edge file, and two pair of pliers.
I've been using DIY mags for three months now, and have yet to have on of the final designs fail. The one pictured has been through 300 rounds without issue.
Total cost to DIY everything pictured is 13 bucks.
Are you following on the det_disp keybase? They are up to ~20 or so printable firearms and receivers. How-to rifling steel tubes and even details about how to make 9mm in heavily restricted European countries (which Hawaii is close to now).
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Photographic evidence of my windowed, non-windowed and steel 30 rnd mags possessed pre ban.
(http://i.imgur.com/alcJlf4.jpg) (https://imgur.com/alcJlf4)
(http://i.imgur.com/2NKzNje.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/2NKzNje)
(http://i.imgur.com/6DRA2Fb.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/6DRA2Fb)
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I bought a lot of mags, mainly to replace my existing ones and for rifles I'll be buying soon. I don't have an extensive amount of mags cause I figure if it's a SHTF situation where I need more than 5 magazines of ammo I figure I'll either be dead by then or things are so bad that life's not worth living at that point.
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Photographic evidence of my windowed, non-windowed and steel 30 rnd mags possessed pre ban.
Gotta put the newspaper in the pics, just like ransom pics. ;D
I have a bunch of mags that I bought over the years, usually ahead of threats of bans or restrictions starting over 10 years ago. I was also able to get on awesome deals after people hoarded up mags and then sold off after prices dropped. I typically bust out new mags here and there for training, but I haven't done so in a while since I have a number of training mags that I rotate through. I've also bought mags over the years to try and they still going strong. The Lancer AWM mags are one that I really have come to like, particularly for classes. Overall, quality UGSI mags are my favorite.
Mags are disposable items and they wear, get busted up, etc. I have some mags that have started to show signs of needing to be replaced. It's the number of mags in reserve to replace the "in use" mags that is important to me.
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Gotta put the newspaper in the pics, just like ransom pics. ;D
Re: Mag Ban Incoming
« Reply #32 on: Today at 09:53:29 AM »
Photographic evidence of my windowed, non-windowed and steel 30 rnd mags possessed pre ban.
I have a bunch of mags that I bought over the years, usually ahead of threats of bans or restrictions starting over 10 years ago. I was also able to get on awesome deals after people hoarded up mags and then sold off after prices dropped. I typically bust out new mags here and there for training, but I haven't done so in a while since I have a number of training mags that I rotate through. I've also bought mags over the years to try and they still going strong. The Lancer AWM mags are one that I really have come to like, particularly for classes. Overall, quality UGSI mags are my favorite.
Mags are disposable items and they wear, get busted up, etc. I have some mags that have started to show signs of needing to be replaced.
Duct tape. :rofl:
It's the number of mags in reserve to replace the "in use" mags that is important to me.
Those are my "Reserve mags". :thumbsup:
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Mags are disposable items and they wear, get busted up, etc. I have some mags that have started to show signs of needing to be replaced.
Duct tape. :rofl:
It's the number of mags in reserve to replace the "in use" mags that is important to me.
Those are my "Reserve mags". :thumbsup:
One sign of wear is where you take a fully loaded mag and give it a whack from the bottom and the top round pops out. Not a big deal for the methods we've been taught, or at least exposed to. But I have seen it cause problems, albeit rare instances. Other than that, I've thought about replacing the springs and followers on some of my oldest mags, but I actually want to see how they continue to "age". None have been giving me problems, so good test case. That and I add fresh mags into the mix every so often, to the point where it might be a while between uses of some of my older mags.
Every so often a couple of buddies on the mainland have a mass order and they cut me in on some of the deals. It's been a while since the last one. Maybe I'll hit them up to see what's up. :hmm:
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I wonder ...
The HI Prosecutor's office has never weighed in on the legality of >10rd AR-15 mags being included in the ban that applies to pistol mags.
If this new ban is passed, and we have to present our >10rd mags for registration, will those mags be confiscated based on HPD's new policy based on the existing HRS ban on >10rd "pistol" mags?
Catch 22 time:
"Your >10rd rifle mags are grandfathered, just bring them in to be registered."
"Oh, that's an AR mag. It was already banned, so no grandfathering for these illegal mags. Do you want this bag back?"
It's been argued on here in the past that the law is clear re: AR mags. However, overlapping laws blur the lines between semi-auto AR pistols that accept removable mags being legal and whether that law negates the mag capacity limit for AR rifles.
This new law is about to reopen that can of worms IMO. If the bill is defeated, I can see activists pushing the original law to ban these mags anyway by forcing an official interpretation of the law and increased enforcement.
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I wonder ...
The HI Prosecutor's office has never weighed in on the legality of >10rd AR-15 mags being included in the ban that applies to pistol mags.
If this new ban is passed, and we have to present our >10rd mags for registration, will those mags be confiscated based on HPD's new policy based on the existing HRS ban on >10rd "pistol" mags?
Catch 22 time:
"Your >10rd rifle mags are grandfathered, just bring them in to be registered."
"Oh, that's an AR mag. It was already banned, so no grandfathering for these illegal mags. Do you want this bag back?"
It's been argued on here in the past that the law is clear re: AR mags. However, overlapping laws blur the lines between semi-auto AR pistols that accept removable mags being legal and whether that law negates the mag capacity limit for AR rifles.
This new law is about to reopen that can of worms IMO. If the bill is defeated, I can see activists pushing the original law to ban these mags anyway by forcing an official interpretation of the law and increased enforcement.
Correct if wrong, but HRS defines what an assault pistol is (AR pistol). This is why some cannot have a detachable magazine, or must block the gas port, etc...
And in current law it states "inserted into a pistol". Not "assault pistol". So g2g. That's why for the bill, they crossed out "pistol" and replaced it with "firearm".
And the former prosecutor (Kaneshiro) stated during an interview that he will not enforce AR mags.
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Correct if wrong, but HRS defines what an assault pistol is (AR pistol). This is why some cannot have a detachable magazine, or must block the gas port, etc...
And in current law it states "inserted into a pistol". Not "assault pistol". So g2g. That's why for the bill, they crossed out "pistol" and replaced it with "firearm".
And the former prosecutor (Kaneshiro) stated during an interview that he will not enforce AR mags.
#1 - tying the mag capacity of rifles to pistols was a stupid thing to do at all. It should have been struck from the law long ago -- or never added to start with. The crossing out of pistol and replacing with firearm was to do away with this illogical relationship someone decided was reasonable long ago. That part I actually agree with. Unless they can publish a list of rifles allowed to have >10 rd mags, or a list of the rifles that can't, it's stupid to leave it up to the owner to know if such an arbitrary and ambiguous clause applies to his specific rifle. Look at the Ruger 10/22. A good example where the pistol is sold here now, but wasn't always. People still can buy the 25 rd mags for their rifles, though. Too confusing and unenforced/unenforceable. Yeah, it's rimfire vs, centerfire, but nothing in the law addresses that, either.
#2 - Splitting hairs with definitions is not going to be "good to go" at all. Is a semi-auto assault-style rifle no longer classified as a rifle? A pistol which accepts a removable mag is still a pistol no matter how many other adjectives you shove before the name.
#3 - The gray area is that in Hawaii, you have to (a) weld the mag into the magwell (no longer detachable) or (b) disable the gas system (no longer a semi-auto). Regardless, the fact is, the pistol still exists, can be legally owned and can accept detachable mags if configured as non-semi-auto. Hence, you could insert your 30rd AR mag from your rifle into your manually operated AR pistol. The laws are written very poorly and create confusion when applied to reality. I'm just pointing out that the HDF researched it, and their opinion is that the law is clear -- AR mags over 10 rounds are illegal in HI.
Not my opinion. I'm just pointing out that the matter is far from settled legally.
BTW, if the pistol mag is welded/epoxied, then the 10rd rule doesn't apply to it. :thumbsup:
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Photographic evidence of my windowed, non-windowed and steel 30 rnd mags possessed pre ban.
(http://i.imgur.com/alcJlf4.jpg) (https://imgur.com/alcJlf4)
(http://i.imgur.com/2NKzNje.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/2NKzNje)
(http://i.imgur.com/6DRA2Fb.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/6DRA2Fb)
I wonder if I can take mine to the bank and get them notarized
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2097/1639/products/ARIZONA-NOTARY-EM_large.jpg?v=1505325478)
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One sign of wear is where you take a fully loaded mag and give it a whack from the bottom and the top round pops out. Not a big deal for the methods we've been taught, or at least exposed to. But I have seen it cause problems, albeit rare instances. Other than that, I've thought about replacing the springs and followers on some of my oldest mags, but I actually want to see how they continue to "age". None have been giving me problems, so good test case. That and I add fresh mags into the mix every so often, to the point where it might be a while between uses of some of my older mags.
Every so often a couple of buddies on the mainland have a mass order and they cut me in on some of the deals. It's been a while since the last one. Maybe I'll hit them up to see what's up. :hmm:
:grrr:
One sign of wear is where you take a fully loaded mag and give it a whack from the bottom and the the mag falls out
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Here we go.
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Time to join Inspector in AZ.
Come on out! The weather is beautiful out here.
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Working on it. GD Chinese virus is keeping us off airplanes to go house hunting.
I read today there is a new Chinese Virus that is being reported. You better get out here before that one hits us!
Seriously, if you need help with anything, let me know. I can do a little recon for you if you need. Also, if you need a agent referral I have a good one I can give you either here or in Phoenix.
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Maybe not, but a few of us can be a counterweight to those Calif liberals that bring their attitudes.
In Yavapai county where I am looking, it is not at all like Phoenix politically. Granted, Phoenix is a monster in the state like LA/SF, Portland, etc. But the outlying counties have a much stronger individualistic background.
Better to live out what years I have left in an area not feeling like I am behind enemy lines as here. My smattering of tactical gear makes my wife nervous as well.
"What do you need this for?" She does not like my answer.
You are absolutely right about Yavapai County. You would have been proud seeing all the patriots come out all carrying rifles to protect the downtown businesses on the day that BLM marched thru the streets of downtown Prescott. They paid for a permit to do this. They antagonized the patriots and the patriots said nothing. They didn’t have to, their guns spoke for them. It is definitely a tight knit community. I see Trump supporters on the corners waving Trump flags, etc. Guys drive around here with American flags, Gadsden Flags and Trump flags on their trucks. Politicians advertise they are Republican or Trump supporter. People walk around open carry. Everybody talks about guns. I don’t have to worry about whether the person I am talking to is going to start screaming Nazi at me. Oh, services are SO much cheaper here. My wife’s hair used to cost me 2 bills every time she went plus tip. She just went last week and it was $53 with the tip. Those of you who know me know I have very little hair. A haircut in Fantastic Sams plus my beard trim was about $35 with tip. I went last month and it was under $15 with tip. I buy the same groceries every week here as I did there. I spend less than half of what I spent there. There are more American cars and trucks on the roads here than foreign cars and trucks. Oh, and the LGS here are very different here. Everyone’s shelves are kind of empty. But one of the LGS really caters to us reloaders. Electricity and water is reasonable here. We have natural gas here as well. It can get quite windy here, tho. But did I mention the weather here is terrific so far? We are in the monsoon season right now but I have yet to experience the heavy rains here. Oh, the first week I was here in April it hailed for a minute or two. I have seen a couple of King snakes. Lots of lizards and rabbits. And Pronghorn are around up in the mountains and out on the flats sometimes. When it cools off in the fall my nephew and I are going to find a place out in the desert and just shoot. Also there are a couple of big ranges we are going to shoot at. For now I am going to my local indoor range and shooting pistol. From a holster. As fast as I care to shoot. As often as I care to go.
Yeah, I’m loving it here.
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#1 - tying the mag capacity of rifles to pistols was a stupid thing to do at all. It should have been struck from the law long ago -- or never added to start with. The crossing out of pistol and replacing with firearm was to do away with this illogical relationship someone decided was reasonable long ago. That part I actually agree with. Unless they can publish a list of rifles allowed to have >10 rd mags, or a list of the rifles that can't, it's stupid to leave it up to the owner to know if such an arbitrary and ambiguous clause applies to his specific rifle. Look at the Ruger 10/22. A good example where the pistol is sold here now, but wasn't always. People still can buy the 25 rd mags for their rifles, though. Too confusing and unenforced/unenforceable. Yeah, it's rimfire vs, centerfire, but nothing in the law addresses that, either.
#2 - Splitting hairs with definitions is not going to be "good to go" at all. Is a semi-auto assault-style rifle no longer classified as a rifle? A pistol which accepts a removable mag is still a pistol no matter how many other adjectives you shove before the name.
#3 - The gray area is that in Hawaii, you have to (a) weld the mag into the magwell (no longer detachable) or (b) disable the gas system (no longer a semi-auto). Regardless, the fact is, the pistol still exists, can be legally owned and can accept detachable mags if configured as non-semi-auto. Hence, you could insert your 30rd AR mag from your rifle into your manually operated AR pistol. The laws are written very poorly and create confusion when applied to reality. I'm just pointing out that the HDF researched it, and their opinion is that the law is clear -- AR mags over 10 rounds are illegal in HI.
Not my opinion. I'm just pointing out that the matter is far from settled legally.
BTW, if the pistol mag is welded/epoxied, then the 10rd rule doesn't apply to it. :thumbsup:
And nowhere in the statute does it say that. And i know I've asked, FJ has asked, Zippz asked and hundreds of others have asked. HPD nor the AG will define it, they just refer to the other party pointing their fingers at each other. I always come back to "how can I be in violation of a law, if they can't define it through statute". And the burden of proof is on them. And yes in the meanwhile i will have spent countless thousands of dollars defending myself and had all of my stuff confiscated. Yes, justice is blind
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Here we go.
He's a cool guy and does a LOT for the 2a community on many levels.
Took stock of my mags today. I have a "decent" amount that I've had for many years, but just put in an order for a bit more.
Personally, I like to buy new mags and beat them up myself. However, there's still a pretty decent market for used mags on the mainland. I'll have to check to see what's available these days.
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:grrr:
One sign of wear is where you take a fully loaded mag and give it a whack from the bottom and the the mag falls out
I'd very much like to see a demonstration of that. I wouldn't think that is possible, but when it comes to that stuff, Rocky can do it. . . :rofl:
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What are the indoor range prices?
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Colorado went down today...
https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/colorados-ban-on-large-capacity-gun-magazines-found-constitutional/73-5e3fd331-e275-4773-8285-85ac96f1603c
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What are the indoor range prices?
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At the indoor range near me it is $20 per visit. No time limits and basically no restrictions except pistol calibers only. I opted for the yearly membership for $359. I can go as often as I wish with no time limits. Plus they offer a bunch of discounts and freebies on stuff like a CCW class for the membership.
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Colorado went down today...
https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/colorados-ban-on-large-capacity-gun-magazines-found-constitutional/73-5e3fd331-e275-4773-8285-85ac96f1603c
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Hawaii legislature's still going to push it through. But at least our side can bolster their argument using Colorado's example.
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At the indoor range near me it is $20 per visit. No time limits and basically no restrictions except pistol calibers only. I opted for the yearly membership for $359. I can go as often as I wish with no time limits. Plus they offer a bunch of discounts and freebies on stuff like a CCW class for the membership.
Do you have to buy their ammo and targets? If not, do they allow you to use your reloads and collect your brass?
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Here we go.
Support Bushido if you can. He is 1 of the gun stores that show up to the hearings consistently and writes testimony. There are a few other stores that do not show up or write testimony, but try and capitalize on the bills.
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I hope everyone appreciates the gift I've given you so you can keep your grandfathered magazines. Can you imagine what it's like to have dozens of angry hysterical mothers calling me to complain that I buckled to the big luau gang?
Please vote for me.
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^^^ LOL :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
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Do you have to buy their ammo and targets? If not, do they allow you to use your reloads and collect your brass?
Long time no see! :wave:
No, you don’t have to buy their ammo or targets. You can buy their ammo and targets if you want but you can shoot your own reloads and bring your own targets. And you can collect your own brass but they are very adamant that you cannot collect any brass in front of the line. So if your brass launches in front of the line it is theirs. Even if it is an inch over. They are very strict about their rules. Here is their range memberships:
https://www.insightshootingcenter.com/memberships
They have 2 sides to the range. The standard public side and a training side which you can practice holster draw and the targets fall so you can practice firing at different targets. They offer training and I get access to training and to the training side based on my membership as well. See the video at the bottom of the page.
https://www.insightshootingcenter.com/training-classes
I am taking my CCW class in July. I kept my 10 round mags so I will have them for the restricted states as my wife and travel around a bit. This range is perfect for me during the hot months but it has not gotten that hot out here more than a handful of days so far. The problem is we are on fire watch restrictions right now. Otherwise my nephew and I could just find any where around here and just shoot (safely). Also, there are outdoor public ranges but they are farther south down lower (hotter) elevation so I’ll wait until it cools off down there before I go. There is another couple of indoor ranges around but I have not checked them out yet.
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I hope everyone appreciates the gift I've given you so you can keep your grandfathered magazines. Can you imagine what it's like to have dozens of angry hysterical mothers calling me to complain that I buckled to the big luau gang?
Please vote for me.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Colorado went down today...
https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/colorados-ban-on-large-capacity-gun-magazines-found-constitutional/73-5e3fd331-e275-4773-8285-85ac96f1603c
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:thumbsup: :geekdanc:
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Colorado went down today...
https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/colorados-ban-on-large-capacity-gun-magazines-found-constitutional/73-5e3fd331-e275-4773-8285-85ac96f1603c
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You guys read this? It upheld the ban on magazines. Not a "W" in the gun rights column. Bans all magazines over 15 rounds. But hell in this state I'd take that
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You guys read this? It upheld the ban on magazines. Not a "W" in the gun rights column. Bans all magazines over 15 rounds. But hell in this state I'd take that
So you would accept an infringement of your rights ? :wacko:
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You guys read this? It upheld the ban on magazines. Not a "W" in the gun rights column. Bans all magazines over 15 rounds. But hell in this state I'd take that
Whoops. I didn’t rad the article, at least not yet. And I misread the link wording. My bad...
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Long time no see! :wave:
No, you don’t have to buy their ammo or targets. You can buy their ammo and targets if you want but you can shoot your own reloads and bring your own targets. And you can collect your own brass but they are very adamant that you cannot collect any brass in front of the line. So if your brass launches in front of the line it is theirs. Even if it is an inch over. They are very strict about their rules. Here is their range memberships:
https://www.insightshootingcenter.com/memberships
They have 2 sides to the range. The standard public side and a training side which you can practice holster draw and the targets fall so you can practice firing at different targets. They offer training and I get access to training and to the training side based on my membership as well. See the video at the bottom of the page.
https://www.insightshootingcenter.com/training-classes
I am taking my CCW class in July. I kept my 10 round mags so I will have them for the restricted states as my wife and travel around a bit. This range is perfect for me during the hot months but it has not gotten that hot out here more than a handful of days so far. The problem is we are on fire watch restrictions right now. Otherwise my nephew and I could just find any where around here and just shoot (safely). Also, there are outdoor public ranges but they are farther south down lower (hotter) elevation so I’ll wait until it cools off down there before I go. There is another couple of indoor ranges around but I have not checked them out yet.
Yeah, I've been MIA for some time . . . kids activities and such. And, now you are in AZ and enjoying life in a free state. I hope that it is working out for you & your wife as I saw a post hinting at health concerns.
Thanks for the info . . . I am jealous.
I am getting back into reloading and shooting since all activities have been shut down.
I sold an 8-lb jug of Varget last month on this site - it went real quick.
:shaka:
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in light of recent looting where gangs of hundreds burned and destroyed their neighborhoods - having a law abiding citizen willing to defend themselves while politicians pander to the same mob about defunding police - this is absolutely absurd X infinity :grrr:
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in light of recent looting where gangs of hundred burned and destroyed their neighborhoods - having a law abiding citizen willing to defend themselves while politicians pander to the same mob about defunding police - this is absolutely absurd.X infinity :grrr:
Absolutely absurd that they are focusing on measures like these as opposed to other more pressing matters impacting all residents of HI.
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So, if this passes (likely at this point), and HPD doesn't require the mags to be marked/serialized ......
PM me if you'd like to "rent" some mags to add to your grandfathered list.
I may be making a few of trips to grandfather 3X my stash -- acquisition of which is TBD. :geekdanc:
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Yeah, I've been MIA for some time . . . kids activities and such. And, now you are in AZ and enjoying life in a free state. I hope that it is working out for you & your wife as I saw a post hinting at health concerns.
Thanks for the info . . . I am jealous.
I am getting back into reloading and shooting since all activities have been shut down.
I sold an 8-lb jug of Varget last month on this site - it went real quick.
:shaka:
I hope your family is doing well during this really trying time.
My wife’s health is not good at this moment. The doctors at Queens and the Rehab Hospital of the Pacific in Hawaii fucked her up pretty bad by prescribing medicine she was allergic to and then instead of stopping the medication, they just treated her symptoms with more medications so she continued to get worse. Then we had to leave the island and start all over again with all new doctors and while they have done a great job with her, she was so fucked up that they are having a very hard time trying to undo what the Hawaii doctors did and yet keep her kidney functions from stopping. Now it seems the new doctors here have found the right medications but they worked too good and she became depleted. So we have backed off somewhat but after we did that she started getting worse again. We are at that point of trying to find the right amount. One pill is not enough and two pills is too much. It’s been quite a rollercoaster with her. I am considering a lawsuit against the Hawaii doctors and hospitals since it is all documented via her medical records. However, I understand it will be difficult due to all the releases we signed. I need to talk to a lawyer. At least she is getting excellent care out here. All the doctors and specialists have done an amazing job with her. Once we get her back to a more normal condition we can concentrate on making her quality of life better.
I have to have some surgery done myself. But it is considered elective and all elective surgeries are on hold right now due to the Chinese Virus. The surgeon made me go to a cardiologist and get a stress test for my heart. That turned out well. But now since I have to wait I have to suffer with my condition until they open the surgeries back up.
You should have kept that jug of Varget. It is almost impossible to get right now. Powder Valley has not had any for months. My LGS here still has a few bottles but said they have not had any new bottles come in for a few months. He said something to the effect that the Australian ports being closed and nothing is leaving there. I just snagged an 8lb jug of H335 which is almost as hard to find as Varget.
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That’s frustrating to hear but I am glad she is finally stabilizing. Sadly those scenarios are very common since doctors threw out their analytical toolkit and became the sales force for big pharma.
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Just a FYI, there is a way for the government to track when the mag was made. On Pmags, there is a year and month date on it. I'm sure other mags are the same, so inspect closely.
But there is nothing in the law saying it's illegal to remove that manufacture date.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200702/4c5c16ac29ad8d22849408b36506a8ac.jpg)
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So, if this passes (likely at this point), and HPD doesn't require the mags to be marked/serialized ......
PM me if you'd like to "rent" some mags to add to your grandfathered list.
I may be making a few of trips to grandfather 3X my stash -- acquisition of which is TBD. :geekdanc:
I was thinking the same thing!
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Just a FYI, there is a way for the government to track when the mag was made. On Pmags, there is a year and month date on it. I'm sure other mags are the same, so inspect closely.
But there is nothing in the law saying it's illegal to remove that manufacture date.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200702/4c5c16ac29ad8d22849408b36506a8ac.jpg)
Thanks i didnt even know about that!
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All of my USGI mags are date stamped. Looks like the Lancer mags have a mfr date indicator, but it's tiny.
The date stamping was a thing back for the 1994 Crime Bill for indicator of what was a "pre-ban" mag. That spawned a lot of folks looking for mags without date stamping, but it is my understanding that in some cases, the mags without date stamps were considered not "pre-ban".
From what I read, the verbiage in the current measures in HI seems to be different as it doesn't necessarily key on the mfr date. Enforcement (realistic or not) of the law aside. . .
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All of my USGI mags are date stamped. Looks like the Lancer mags have a mfr date indicator, but it's tiny.
The date stamping was a thing back for the 1994 Crime Bill for indicator of what was a "pre-ban" mag. That spawned a lot of folks looking for mags without date stamping, but it is my understanding that in some cases, the mags without date stamps were considered not "pre-ban".
From what I read, the verbiage in the current measures in HI seems to be different as it doesn't necessarily key on the mfr date. Enforcement (realistic or not) of the law aside. . .
It would raise suspect if some mags dates are etched off and others are not. I heard of a guy who's etching all mags so they're uniform. It's the states duty to prove you got the mags post ban. Not you're duty to prove you bought them pre ban.
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It would raise suspect if some mags dates are etched off and others are not. I heard of a guy who's etching all mags so they're uniform. It's the states duty to prove you got the mags post ban. Not you're duty to prove you bought them pre ban.
Just stipple all your mags. ;D
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Anyone with a twitter account want to ask Rhoads why he is working on anti-gun bills all the while tweeting about how bad of shape the US is in because of trump and covid?
https://twitter.com/KarlRhoads1/
Seems to me he is part of the problem and not doing anything for a solution
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Anyone with a twitter account want to ask Rhoads why he is working on anti-gun bills all the while tweeting about how bad of shape the US is in because of trump and covid?
https://twitter.com/KarlRhoads1/
Seems to me he is part of the problem and not doing anything for a solution
Exactly!
I included similar statements in my testimony. Why are they focusing on this when there are a lot biggers that they need to be addressing to help a big number of people in Hawaii. I hope the people (those really hurting because of covid, homelessness, etc) see this. . .
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Here's his cell # if anyone wants to contact him. He gave it out on letter warning about COVID scams.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200702/d6c2fa20d2b4f016aaee26a6f87eed52.jpg)
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Anyone with a twitter account want to ask Rhoads why he is working on anti-gun bills all the while tweeting about how bad of shape the US is in because of trump and covid?
https://twitter.com/KarlRhoads1/
Seems to me he is part of the problem and not doing anything for a solution
I just read a few of his twitter posts. He's full blast libtard, isn't he?
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I just read a few of his twitter posts. He's full blast libtard, isn't he?
Yes, TDS to the max.
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Anyone with a twitter account want to ask Rhoads why he is working on anti-gun bills all the while tweeting about how bad of shape the US is in because of trump and covid?
https://twitter.com/KarlRhoads1/
Seems to me he is part of the problem and not doing anything for a solution
I responded to one of his Tweets:
Why are you more concerned with a magazine ban when this Chinese Virus is killing our state economy? Seems to me if you were that concerned with this Chinese Virus you would be working on all the problems related to that and the economy instead of banning magazines. Idiotic.
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It would not be difficult to make a branding iron with the same style date-stamp markings that come on PMags. No need to alter the month "dial", just the circle and 2-digit year.
A flat iron would remove the old digits and make a smooth base. Then a numbered iron would create the raised digits.
CNC laser-based cottage industry? :thumbsup:
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How is this going to work? So, no more can goto any public range in Hawaii with hi-caps? Have to rebuy 10rounders or block all hi-caps?
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I don't believe using them is prohibited, provided they were grandfathered in.
If use is prohibited, even if grandfathered, then what's the point of having them after the law is enacted? Fancy paperweight?
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How is this going to work? So, no more can goto any public range in Hawaii with hi-caps? Have to rebuy 10rounders or block all hi-caps?
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As long as u purchased them pre-ban, you can use them anywhere legally. But you cannot let someone else use them. So if u take a friend shooting, they will need a blocked mag.
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Leave it to Hawaii lawmakers to change an ambiguous, unenforced ban/not-a-ban on >10rd AR mags, and by doing so making those "gray area" >10rd AR mags now explicitly legal under the new grandfather clause.
If they really want to ban them, they aren't doing it right! :geekdanc: :thumbsup: :rofl:
While they are enacting a more clearly-written law, which I appreciate, they are also making self defense and defense of property for the law abiding gun owner more difficult if the gun owner does not own the grandfathered rifle mags they may require one day. They are also adding one more "gotcha" law that can potentially make a peaceful, responsible gun owner a felon.
I would truly like to see the EVIDENCE that mag capacity limits save lives. Anecdotal events like the Giffords shooting and "feelings" are not evidence.
If Trump were pushing this issue, the MSM would preface every headline with the phrase, "Without Evidence...".
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...But you cannot let someone else use them. So if u take a friend shooting, they will need a blocked mag....
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Ummm. What? That needs clarifying big time. So you can let a friend shoot the firearm, but it cannot be with that quote on quote highcap mag? All of sudden we're both criminals because of that? The legislators better know how fucking ridiculous this sounds before they vote on it. I'm going to resend my email with that added, and I suggest everyone do the same.
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Ummm. What? That needs clarifying big time. So you can let a friend shoot the firearm, but it cannot be with that quote on quote highcap mag? All of sudden we're both criminals because of that? The legislators better know how fucking ridiculous this sounds before they vote on it. I'm going to resend my email with that added, and I suggest everyone do the same.
Prohibits possession ...
So, you can loan someone your long gun, just not the 30rd mags you bought pre-ban. :crazy:
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Prohibits possession ...
So, you can loan someone your long gun, just not the 30rd mags you bought pre-ban. :crazy:
The context was the range--say we're at Kokohead popping off some rounds. Edit: Also, I'm not keen on lending any firearm to anyone.
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Or if ur taking a rifle class. Very common to toss someone a mag, especially during team relays.
And if your spouse uses the rifle for self defense, how they articulate who owns the mag thats in the rifle is important. Its legal to own just a mag, and not own a rifle.
Its unlikely hpd will be at the range counting shots. And rifle side dont allow more than 5 anyways. They would need probable cause to test the mag thats in the rifle to see if its a 30rd or blocked to 10rds.
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The context was the range--say we're at Kokohead popping off some rounds. Edit: Also, I'm not keen on lending any firearm to anyone.
Case-by-case hypothetical situations are not covered in laws. The term "possession" is among the prohibitions for >10rd mags. If you hand someone a 30rd mag for your AR at the range, he/she is in possession of it, are they not?
If we are talking the bullseye range, you're limited to 5 rds per mag anyway. Why take the chance?
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Case-by-case hypothetical situations are not covered in laws. The term "possession" is among the prohibitions for >10rd mags. If you hand someone a 30rd mag for your AR at the range, he/she is in possession of it, are they not?
If we are talking the bullseye range, you're limited to 5 rds per mag anyway. Why take the chance?
You might be conflating possession with ownership.
The law will prohibit ownership of all high-cap magazines purchased when the law is active. Any grandfathered mags should not change legal status if they don't change hands--unless they change hands in a commercial exchange sense (one sells it to another person, which would clearly be illegal). There are gray areas that need to be resolved before this law should even be signed. Let me illustrate:
Possession and ownership are two different things, right? Because while they (a friend or anyone you authorize) may possess that magazine, they certainly do not own it; otherwise, by that logic, they possess (own) that firearm as well. It's the same sense as lending your car to someone: they need to be legally capable of operating that car. With that said, the rules governing a legal (grandfathered) magazine should be commensurate with the rules governing a legal firearm. After all, they are one required the other. People treat them as different things, but that's another discussion.
No case-by-case? That is stupid. It's stupid to think that there are cut-and-dry situations when this is clearly a nuanced topic.
Again, if I am to follow this law, it must be at the very least a law that you can follow easily. People ARE going to say shit like "I didn't know that" and rightfully so, since it's hard to make Po'o to Okole with laws with gray areas. One thing we know for sure that is black and white is this: your okole is going to OCCC even if you didn't know you were breaking a law.
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You might be conflating possession with ownership.
The law will prohibit ownership of all high-cap magazines purchased when the law is active. Any grandfathered mags should not change legal status if they don't change hands--unless they change hands in a commercial exchange sense (one sells it to another person, which would clearly be illegal). There are gray areas that need to be resolved before this law should even be signed. Let me illustrate:
Possession and ownership are two different things, right? Because while they (a friend or anyone you authorize) may possess that magazine, they certainly do not own it; otherwise, by that logic, they possess (own) that firearm as well. It's the same sense as lending your car to someone: they need to be legally capable of operating that car. With that said, the rules governing a legal (grandfathered) magazine should be commensurate with the rules governing a legal firearm. After all, they are one required the other. People treat them as different things, but that's another discussion.
No case-by-case? That is stupid. It's stupid to think that there are cut-and-dry situations when this is clearly a nuanced topic.
Again, if I am to follow this law, it must be at the very least a law that you can follow easily. People ARE going to say shit like "I didn't know that" and rightfully so, since it's hard to make Po'o to Okole with laws with gray areas. One thing we know for sure that is black and white is this: your okole is going to OCCC even if you didn't know you were breaking a law.
Since this is a new law, there is no available case law from which to gauge the specifics. If you think that's stupid, then that's not my problem.
"Possession" is plain language. The law doesn't say "ownership" -- simply states "possession."
Here's the official synopsis taken from the bill:
Prohibits the manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition
magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds, regardless of the type of firearm with which the magazine is
compatible. Allows possession of large-capacity magazines that were legally possessed prior to the effective date
of this Act. Allows acquisition by means of inheritance of large-capacity magazines that were legally in possession
prior to the effective date of this Act. Allows possession and use by law enforcement agencies and officers. Allows
the use of blank-fire assault weapons and detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds
for use solely as props for motion picture film or television program production when authorized by the chief of police
of the appropriate county and not in violation of federal law. (SD2)
The acts listed are:
manufacture
possession
sale
barter
trade
gift
transfer
acquisition
No matter how the thing wound up in your hands, if it's not grandfathered to you by law or willed to you by someone for which it was grandfathered, you're in violation.
If you look up the definition of "possession", one of the synonyms is, in fact, "owning". It also means "to be in control of". To argue "Ownership, not possession" is really a distinction without a difference.
If you get charged with drug possession, good luck arguing, "But, it doesn't belong to me!" :wave:
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You are missing my point entirely. But that's alright.
From your synopsis:
"...Allows possession of large-capacity magazines that were legally possessed prior to the effective date
of this Act."
Prima facie (face value) interpretation suggests that as long as it's a grandfathered magazine, there's nothing stating nor suggesting that it cannot be lent in the same context as we have previously stated (at a rifle range).
The following statement doesn't seem to hold to the aforementioned assertion, does it? To quote: "...[a magazine] not grandfathered to you by law or willed to you by someone for which it was grandfathered, you're in violation." Now hang on. There's floating about two concrete definitions of possession--by means of purchase outside of dates to which the law is in effect, and by inheritance. Somehow possession by lending gets wedged into it. After all, you can lend a weapon, but not a grandfathered magazine? The heart of question is the why disparity between that and should not that be resolved before the law is put into effect.
You offered spurious explanation. Let us speak or discuss it fairly. For one thing, drugs are a completely different matter altogether. There are a variety of drugs and their legality is based on certain conditions. Furthermore, nobody can lend you their marijuana or oxycodone. I've already stated you can lend a weapon, so let's not contest that any further.
It's not exactly a new law since there's are nine other states with the same or similar law in effect. I admit I am not well versed in any of it, nor are aware of any case laws to which we can discuss the subject in earnest.
But perhaps someone here is, and we can get the air cleared up on the matter. With that said, I don't think you're helping that cause in any way--I'm sorry, but you aren't.
I am hoping our legislators understand the implications of this well enough in order to be qualified to be able to legislate it. I fear that it's a law implemented as a result of irrational fear, to which they will likely do more harm to our society than good.
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Side Note: Devin just started taking orders for STANAG style mags on his website
http://www.baa808.com/OKAY-IND-SUREFEED-AR-15-30-ROUND-MAGAZINE--BLACK_p_52.html?fbclid=IwAR1MB0xPgstmAXLVLnZHczp94Z0N8xXmtYP2fU8WN_w6svnfAsNKY9vJmoI
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You are missing my point entirely. But that's alright.
From your synopsis:
"...Allows possession of large-capacity magazines that were legally possessed prior to the effective date
of this Act."
Prima facie (face value) interpretation suggests that as long as it's a grandfathered magazine, there's nothing stating nor suggesting that it cannot be lent in the same context as we have previously stated (at a rifle range).
The following statement doesn't seem to hold to the aforementioned assertion, does it? To quote: "...[a magazine] not grandfathered to you by law or willed to you by someone for which it was grandfathered, you're in violation." Now hang on. There's floating about two concrete definitions of possession--by means of purchase outside of dates to which the law is in effect, and by inheritance. Somehow possession by lending gets wedged into it. After all, you can lend a weapon, but not a grandfathered magazine? The heart of question is the why disparity between that and should not that be resolved before the law is put into effect.
You offered spurious explanation. Let us speak or discuss it fairly. For one thing, drugs are a completely different matter altogether. There are a variety of drugs and their legality is based on certain conditions. Furthermore, nobody can lend you their marijuana or oxycodone. I've already stated you can lend a weapon, so let's not contest that any further.
It's not exactly a new law since there's are nine other states with the same or similar law in effect. I admit I am not well versed in any of it, nor are aware of any case laws to which we can discuss the subject in earnest.
But perhaps someone here is, and we can get the air cleared up on the matter. With that said, I don't think you're helping that cause in any way--I'm sorry, but you aren't.
I am hoping our legislators understand the implications of this well enough in order to be qualified to be able to legislate it. I fear that it's a law implemented as a result of irrational fear, to which they will likely do more harm to our society than good.
My intention is not to help or hurt "the cause." I'm simply voicing my understanding of the bill as it's worded. If you think opinions of fact are supposed to be 100% in favor of one's ideological beliefs, then you're part of the problem. If both sides refuse to be rational about these issues, those in power will continue to ignore any arguments that conflict with their beliefs no matter how erroneous or contradictory to the Constitution they may be.
I've already stated I don't think there is any evidence that Mag capacity limits save lives. If that isn't supporting the cause enough for you, it really doesn't bother me. I'm okay with you having an opinion about who is helping and who is not. It's just an opinion.
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This is really annoying at a time when we should be pinching our pennies that we have to drop hundreds of dollars on consumables, but then again with inflation set to skyrocket maybe the ledge accidentally did us a favor?
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As for your hypothetical and the "possession" of a pre-ban mag >10rd at the range...
Since the RSOs are not checking firearm registrations, they have no idea who owns what nor who is on the registration (registration does not necessarily equate to ownership, and HPD would have a fit if we went down that road). If I say someone stole my gun -- and I have the receipt from when I bought it -- the person on the registration would also have to produce proof of ownership if they have it. People bring guns in all the time to register with no bill of sale (out of state arrivals). As long as it wasn't listed as stolen in a database, the gun gets registered. So, registration is in no way proof of ownership.
Anyway, if I can hand someone a loaded firearm at the range to shoot, and there's no attempt to ascertain which of us is the owner, and for that matter whether the person being handed the weapon is prohibited from possessing guns, I don't think a magazine that might be blocked to 10 rds (can't tell just by looking from a distance) will be high on their list of laws to investigate.
There are two sides to the coin: what is lawful, and what is 99% unlikely to be reported. This bill, like most so-called "firearms violations" would be used either to pile onto other crimes they are investigating, or in place of statutes for which they were unable to find sufficient evidence to charge you.
In short, the whole "what about at the range?" debate is a special case. As I said, if you're at the bullseye range, you aren't allowed to load more than 5 rds in a mag at once anyway. If you feel strongly enough to want to take pre-ban mags to shoot and not have 10 rd or smaller mags also, that's up to you 100%. While you might be technically in violation of the law when you hand someone your handgun, or a rifle with a pre-ban mag, I'm confident nobody will be waiting to pounce.
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There’s lots of info cited in the Duncan v Becerra case on no apparent effect of mag cap laws and increased lethality of shooting events. I’d have to look it up but it cited many incidents were the average number of shots was less than 10, including incidents where STANDARD capacity magazines were used. I believe many cases involved handguns, where STANDARD capacity mags are routinely in the 15-17 and more range.
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Lots of sales for 4th of July. Lots of sales on Magpul mags, as wells as USGI. Where are the sales in Lancer mags... :(
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Just dropped custom surfboard money on mags and not happy about it. Is there anyone who ships 10/22 ones here any more?
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Just dropped custom surfboard money on mags and not happy about it. Is there anyone who ships 10/22 ones here any more?
Check Brownells. They have some in stock.
Gunmagwarehouse too, but looks like most out of stock.
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Check Brownells. They have some in stock.
Gunmagwarehouse too, but looks like most out of stock.
Can confirm both will ship to Hawaii. You can also check Lanbo’s Armory as they will ship but looks like most are out of stock right now.
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If you have family or friends in a free state in the lower 48, get it shipped to them and then have them send it to you.
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Midway has various magpul and lancer mags in stock Shipping for 6 mags = $7.75
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If you have family or friends in a free state in the lower 48, get it shipped to them and then have them send it to you.
I've done that for years.
I thought sharing such advice would get you banned.
Rock on!
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Brownells has a sale on 5.56 M2 PMags and 7.62 M3 PMags. Only in packs of 10 though is the sale valid. Just bought a bunch and can confirm they are still shipping to Hawaii.
We SHOULD still be able to obtain 30rd rifle magazines if the ban goes through. They will just need to have a magazine block installed and not "readily removable."
There's website out there that sell standard capacity magazine bodies with the blocks currently installed. The downside is the price is roughly 1.5x to 2x more than what it would be factory.
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Thanks. Gunmagwarehouse has the Bulgarian Ak mags for a good price as well as a deal on 10 packs of M2/M3 promags and Okay Surefeeds. Shipping is around $19 for 20 mags, but if you want more than that it is best to break up into multiple orders. Per usual we do not get the free shipping discount here, though.
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We SHOULD still be able to obtain 30rd rifle magazines if the ban goes through. They will just need to have a magazine block installed and not "readily removable."
Very interesting. Please tell me more.
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code VSA at brownells gets you $20 off $200
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I would just get 10 rd AR mags instead of a blocked 30. I keep my AR loaded with a 20 rd mag because I like the compactness of it and it fits in the zippered case easier. However, all the mags I have to reload it are 30 rds.
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code VSA at brownells gets you $20 off $200
Yes it did :thumbsup:
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Thread sounds like the other buying a gun, ammo, TP, dried food etc ones.
If your rushing to do it now cuz $hit hit the fan, you weren't prepared in the first place. ::)
JMHO
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Thread sounds like the other buying a gun, ammo, TP, dried food etc ones.
If your rushing to do it now cuz $hit hit the fan, you weren't prepared in the first place. ::)
JMHO
In this case it was probably worth waiting until we knew the status of the grandfathering.
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Thread sounds like the other buying a gun, ammo, TP, dried food etc ones.
If your rushing to do it now cuz $hit hit the fan, you weren't prepared in the first place. ::)
JMHO
And you sound like an a$$ being an a$$ just to be an a$$. If you don't have anything to offer, any ideas or product sources, then kindly go to another thread.
Maybe you can make one about bitching about a flag that gets taken down in kailua.
JMVHO
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https://www.mysmokinguns.com/products/magazines-magpul-mag571-blk-873750008264-3449-925c7e05-895e-46b8-8129-7e19143db0f9
was $8.19 yesterday, back to 9.69.
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And you sound like an a$$ being an a$$ just to be an a$$. If you don't have anything to offer, any ideas or product sources, then kindly go to another thread.
Maybe you can make one about bitching about a flag that gets taken down in kailua.
JMVHO
Insults ? :wacko:
My, my, my, touchy aren't we. :grrr:
My comment was merely an observation how this thread resembled the others I mentioned.
Maybe seeing how you've only been here 3 months, you have not read the posts I am referring to.
Not the best way to start. :-\
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I love prep shaming just as much as the next guy but in this case it actually worked out. Next gen equipment is available and on sale.
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code VSA at brownells gets you $20 off $200
A buddy ordered some mags and would've been about $100, so I had him add some mags for me. ;D
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Insults ? :wacko:
My, my, my, touchy aren't we. :grrr:
My comment was merely an observation how this thread resembled the others I mentioned.
Maybe seeing how you've only been here 3 months, you have not read the posts I am referring to.
Not the best way to start. :-\
Mines too was an observation of how self-serving such comments are. If there are previous posts similar posts, of what use is repeating them? (See the previous sentence about it being self-serving).
Something tells me you don't give a crap about leaving good impressions either, so don't put that on my doorstep.
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Thread sounds like the other buying a gun, ammo, TP, dried food etc ones.
If your rushing to do it now cuz $hit hit the fan, you weren't prepared in the first place. ::)
JMHO
There's also decently prepared folks who want to supplement. There's also the friends who know you're a gun guy, prepper, etc and ask if you "have extra". While that's not my priority, helping out friends in need is something I consider.
And you sound like an a$$ being an a$$ just to be an a$$. If you don't have anything to offer, any ideas or product sources, then kindly go to another thread.
Maybe you can make one about bitching about a flag that gets taken down in kailua.
JMVHO
Don't mind Rocky. He may come off as a grumpy a$$, but he's a cool guy. If you search back on some history, he shares opportunity for knowledge (such as medical and disaster prep courses) and more.
He may seem like 100 grit on the surface, but there's more below that abrasive exterior. :rofl:
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The primary means of enforcement is through retailers. None can sell them so none can get them--unless they go through the illegal black market, which for some reason laws can't seem to affect. Online retailers? They can refuse to sell you.
Serialized it? That will fucking take forever.
If you own PMAGS those things have manufacturing date on the side, so if it's made on or after the law was signed, you in deep doodoo. Hexmags have them too, I think. I don't know about the rest.
Just buy the really old metal STANAG ones. No dates on the older ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm6WWWxhBdY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm6WWWxhBdY)
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Just got m3 AK mags and am very impressed. They feel great in the hand, lock up tight, and the follower smoothly glides through the body. Need to break them in for speed reloads, so hopefully there is another HDF rifle day soon.
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Just got m3 AK mags and am very impressed. They feel great in the hand, lock up tight, and the follower smoothly glides through the body. Need to break them in for speed reloads, so hopefully there is another HDF rifle day soon.
Saturday, July 25th is carbine day if I heard and remembered correctly.
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10 Pk Gen 2 PMags on sale at Brownells again. They ship fast usually 24 hrs.
https://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/ar-15-pmag-gen-m2-moe-mag-223-5-56-30rd-polymer-blk-10pk-sku100006987-24192-79235.aspx?avad=211021_f1bcd19fd&aid=35987&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-Avantlink-_-Custom+Link&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Avantlink&utm_content=NA&utm_campaign=Itwine
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That’s a good deal.
Personally, I spent my money on .22lr and 7.62x39 conversion mags.
Of course I already have more than a couple 5.56 mags.
Think about the conversions you may do and act now.
Just a thought.
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Already have a good amount of mags for the guns I shoot often. Some friends picked up some mags, so I jumped in to get the Brownells code. I also bought some mags for a PCC, which who knows when I'll actually get the gun. . . :kickcan:
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https://www.mysmokinguns.com/products/magazines-magpul-mag571-blk-873750008264-3449-925c7e05-895e-46b8-8129-7e19143db0f9
$8.49 , ordered 25 more. $10 flat rate shipping
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When some of you start getting your orders in it would be interesting to hear what the dates stamped on them are. I ordered a load of gen 2 Pmags from Palmetto 2 years ago and they were all stamped 2012.
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When some of you start getting your orders in it would be interesting to hear what the dates stamped on them are. I ordered a load of gen 2 Pmags from Palmetto 2 years ago and they were all stamped 2012.
Brownells 9-18
It’s been a while since I bought mags. I think it was back just before 2016 elections. Mags in that batch have some stamps from like early 2000s.
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THE RIFLE MAGAZINE BAN IS DEAD! Yahoo!!!
https://tinyurl.com/yarh2mrn :shaka: :geekdanc: :shake: :wave: :worship:
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THE RIFLE MAGAZINE BAN IS DEAD! Yahoo!!!
https://tinyurl.com/yarh2mrn :shaka: :geekdanc: :shake: :wave: :worship:
Zombies are real.
It will rise again, I guarantee it! :shake:
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https://www.mysmokinguns.com/products/magazines-magpul-mag571-blk-873750008264-3449-925c7e05-895e-46b8-8129-7e19143db0f9
$8.49 , ordered 25 more. $10 flat rate shipping
I just ordered 10 at $8.89 each and $10 shipping. So 10 PMAGS for just under $100 shipped. I hope they ship quickly. Thanks for the link.
I have enough already but I am on a tear reloading 223 so I figure I’ll reload an extra 300 rounds to fill these. Basically, I bought them cuz I have the components to fill them.
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Does the ghost gun bill still have the research portion attached?
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Thank you for all your hard work and the HUNDREDS of LAWFUL gun owners who submitted testimony to fight for all of our RIGHTS.
Sadly, the continually chipping of our RIGHTS marches forward.
These "ghost gun" bills (HB2744) do absolutely nothing to stop nor hamper criminals or their intent. The law is useless. Those who intend to build their own firearms for their own PERSONAL USE are the only people affected.
The other bill, to report all your firearms when you leave Hawaii, is utterly nonsense and totally unenforceable. Tell the govenor to VETO these bills.
Nice to know these so called "leaders" are wasting valuable time attacking law abiding citizens, and not concerning themselves with Hawaii's FAILING economy.
PLEASE KNOW IF THESE SAME POLITICIANS GET REELECTED THIS WILL COME BACK NEXT YEAR AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN. VOTE THEM OUT
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If the ghost gun bill still has gun violence research attached there is a chance Ige won't sign it given the fiscal crisis we are facing
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If the ghost gun bill still has gun violence research attached there is a chance Ige won't sign it given the fiscal crisis we are facing
That is a good point to bring up in our letters to him expressing our desire he VETO these bills. Sadly, I doubt he cares about spending other people's money, and he's a lame duck. He'll probably just sign everything that's handed to him.
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THE RIFLE MAGAZINE BAN IS DEAD! Yahoo!!!
https://tinyurl.com/yarh2mrn :shaka: :geekdanc: :shake: :wave: :worship:
That is some great news.
Like everyone else i just stocked up for no reason :wacko:
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nvm
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... and P80's out-of-stock damn near everywhere
There was a guy on these forms that was selling G19 P80s for $125. i picked up from him and he still has a few left.
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I went and bought mags just because I can and to thumb my nose at these anti-gun anti-2a bastards.
That is some great news.
Like everyone else i just stocked up for no reason :wacko:
Yes it is GREAT news!! :thumbsup:
That is a good point to bring up in our letters to him expressing our desire he VETO these bills. Sadly, I doubt he cares about spending other people's money, and he's a lame duck. He'll probably just sign everything that's handed to him.
He is a lame duck but throughout his tenure as governor he proved he was always lame.
Thank you for all your hard work and the HUNDREDS of LAWFUL gun owners who submitted testimony to fight for all of our RIGHTS.
Sadly, the continually chipping of our RIGHTS marches forward.
These "ghost gun" bills (HB2744) do absolutely nothing to stop nor hamper criminals or their intent. The law is useless. Those who intend to build their own firearms for their own PERSONAL USE are the only people affected.
The other bill, to report all your firearms when you leave Hawaii, is utterly nonsense and totally unenforceable. Tell the govenor to VETO these bills.
Nice to know these so called "leaders" are wasting valuable time attacking law abiding citizens, and not concerning themselves with Hawaii's FAILING economy.
PLEASE KNOW IF THESE SAME POLITICIANS GET REELECTED THIS WILL COME BACK NEXT YEAR AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN. VOTE THEM OUT
It's possible to vote these same politicians out. Hawaii citizens needs to get more involved in voting. Otherwise the unions and their lemmings will keep these asshats in office.
I am retired and was a union member. Never cared for the political arm of the union. I voted my conscious many times going against who they endorsed. They tried to scare the membership saying if we don't vote for this or that we will lose our jobs.
Well, there might be some truth to that but I wanted to sleep well at night. And I was confident enough and competent enough to get a job without the union.
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I just ordered 10 at $8.89 each and $10 shipping. So 10 PMAGS for just under $100 shipped. I hope they ship quickly. Thanks for the link.
I have enough already but I am on a tear reloading 223 so I figure I’ll reload an extra 300 rounds to fill these. Basically, I bought them cuz I have the components to fill them.
ordered monday. arrived on friday.
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ordered monday. arrived on friday.
Basically, I bought them after they closed on Friday. So I don’t expect them to fulfill the order until next week. But I’m glad they are fast shipping. I made a purchase at Midsouth and it took almost 3 weeks for it to arrive. And I made a purchase at Midway a few days ago and it has not shipped yet.
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Something to point out. If the same local politicians get elected in November. (i.e. Karl Rhoads) all these bills and worse will be coming again next year. Every year we loose at least one or two.....chip chip chip.
As well as if Trump loses all bet are off federally. (yes I realize trump is a dingbat, especially when it comes to gun control, however Biden and the left is a guarantee of major infringement)
Hope you all are researching and prepared to vote right. YOUR OWN CIVIL RIGHTS are at stake
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“The other bill, to report all your firearms when you leave Hawaii, is utterly nonsense and totally unenforceable. Tell the govenor to VETO these bills.”
Like I said before frack this state and any laws telling me I have to report to HPD that I’m taking my firearms outta this state when and if I leave for good! Extradition? Hah what a joke! They can kiss my ass! I have quite a few guns in one or two free states already.
Come on HPD troll(s) tell them. Who cares! It’s none of their business, period. :shaka:
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“The other bill, to report all your firearms when you leave Hawaii, is utterly nonsense and totally unenforceable. Tell the govenor to VETO these bills.”
Like I said before frack this state and any laws telling me I have to report to HPD that I’m taking my firearms outta this state when and if I leave for good! Extradition? Hah what a joke! They can kiss my ass! I have quite a few guns in one or two free states already.
Come on HPD troll(s) tell them. Who cares! It’s none of HPD’s or Hawaii’s business, period. :shaka: