2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: eyeeatingfish on July 23, 2020, 10:46:11 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC03-Q9vq-JyiStTnqasADVg
Is Trump's supporters decreasing?
Discuss.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC03-Q9vq-JyiStTnqasADVg
Is Trump's supporters decreasing?
Discuss.
"Are", not "is".
Sheesh! :geekdanc:
You lived through the 2016 election, and you really have to ask that question?
Trump was not elected by "Republicans". He was elected by people from all parties as well as independent voters.
Trump won for the most part because he was favored by neither the Democrat Party nor the Republican Party. For all intents and purposes, Trump was a real Independent candidate. He only ran on the Republican ticket because he wanted to be sure Hildabeast lost.
Party affiliation is meaningless today, except for the lemmings who can't take the time to decide which candidates deserve their votes. They just look for (D) and (R).
#DrainTheSwamp
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What shook some of his support currently (in my opinion) is the lack up in till recently not suppressing yhe riots. And while I understand is that this is a local issue not a federal issue. Most people don't understand that. Also two of Trumps largest successes the economy and have been impacted by the coronavirus. The more Trump controls these three things the better he will do in the next election.
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There's the alternative.
"Hi I'm an Joe Biden and I'm soliciting for you're vote to defeat Ronald Reagan. Vote for me President 2020."
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How did they get Ronald Reagan to make that video?
Somebody must have connections in a really high place. :rofl:
But seriously R.A.T. seems more like an anti-trump joke than a real thing.
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I don't particularly like Republicans, but I despise Democrats.
I will vote for Trump not because I like him, I just despise
the Democrats more.
If you want to classify me, I'm Libertarian in every way except
I demand and am willing to pay for the best, biggest, "Baddest"
military the world ever has or will see.
Other than that, I despise government, especially the Hawaiian
Democrat run one.
Aloha.
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Jo wants to disband the ATF, so there's that candidate. Just sayin
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I don't particularly like Republicans, but I despise Democrats.
I will vote for Trump not because I like him, I just despise
the Democrats more.
If you want to classify me, I'm Libertarian in every way except
I demand and am willing to pay for the best, biggest, "Baddest"
military the world ever has or will see.
Other than that, I despise government, especially the Hawaiian
Democrat run one.
Aloha.
75,000 federal agents coming to cities near you doesn’t sound libertarian to me.
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75,000 federal agents coming to cities near you doesn’t sound libertarian to me.
There are federal agents already in every single state: DHS, FBI, ATF, US Marshals, Intelligence, etc.
This is Hawaii. Where are these "cities near you?" Kinda vague.
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There are federal agents already in every single state: DHS, FBI, ATF, US Marshals, Intelligence, etc.
This is Hawaii. Where are these "cities near you?" Kinda vague.
You know exactly what I’m talking about and it’s the furthest thing from libertarianism. History will show that Trump will be as much a disaster for the Republican Party as he has been for this nation. We’ve lost the House and next we’ll lose the Senate. The Obama days will seem like a golden age.
:shaka:
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You know exactly what I’m talking about and it’s the furthest thing from libertarianism. History will show that Trump will be as much a disaster for the Republican Party as he has been for this nation. We’ve lost the House and next we’ll lose the Senate. The Obama days will seem like a golden age.
:shaka:
Oh schit, not another troll!
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Trump is not a republican, and not status quo.
Are you surprised in any way status quo republicans don't want to play ball with him? ::)
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I don't particularly like Republicans, but I despise Democrats.
I will vote for Trump not because I like him, I just despise
the Democrats more.
If you want to classify me, I'm Libertarian in every way except
I demand and am willing to pay for the best, biggest, "Baddest"
military the world ever has or will see.
Other than that, I despise government, especially the Hawaiian
Democrat run one.
Aloha.
We must be, some how, related....
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"Are", not "is".
Gosh... I just caught that then looked down and saw this reply.
You lived through the 2016 election, and you really have to ask that question?
Trump was not elected by "Republicans". He was elected by people from all parties as well as independent voters.
Trump won for the most part because he was favored by neither the Democrat Party nor the Republican Party. For all intents and purposes, Trump was a real Independent candidate. He only ran on the Republican ticket because he wanted to be sure Hildabeast lost.
Doesn't mean he will win a second time. I realize the people talking in the videos on this youtube channel are anecdotes and not statistical data but I think they might represent a fair number of former Trump voters.
I tend to agree with the sentiment that Trump only won because Clinton did so bad. She alienated democrats, she wasn't very likable, has issues of corruption, etc.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC03-Q9vq-JyiStTnqasADVg
Is Trump's supporters decreasing?
Discuss.
His first term has been disappointing to say the least, but the Republicans saying they'll abstain from voting/vote against him are childish and acting out of emotion.
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Oh schit, not another troll!
So because I have a different opinion that makes me a troll? There are lots of conservatives who think Trump is a disaster. He’s a big city scammer who has screwed people over his entire life. It’s amazing he cowed people as long as he did, but he’s done now. Are you ok with him sending federal agents to grab people off the streets without cause and without regard for the Constitution? I don’t support the rioters but I won’t support him either. Not to mention his handling of the pandemic has been pathetic. He stuck his head in the sand in January and still hasn’t taken it out. This nation is better than that.
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I vote republican. I don’t consider Trump a republican.
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Are you ok with him sending federal agents to grab people off the streets without cause and without regard for the Constitution?
The funny thing about Federal property is that it is perfectly fine and legal for the e-branch to send in Federal agents to prevent angry mobs from destroying it. If Trump let it burn they would blame him for dereliction of duty because TDS sufferers are not constrained by logic or integrity. Our deep state showed its hand with the Russiagate hoax and Epstein. If those guys hate Trump, I say we need more Trump.
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You know exactly what I’m talking about and it’s the furthest thing from libertarianism. History will show that Trump will be as much a disaster for the Republican Party as he has been for this nation. We’ve lost the House and next we’ll lose the Senate. The Obama days will seem like a golden age.
:shaka:
I would consider it a reasonably good outcome if republicans lose the presidency but manage to take congress.
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His first term has been disappointing to say the least, but the Republicans saying they'll abstain from voting/vote against him are childish and acting out of emotion.
Agreed, abstaining is foolish. At the very least vote libertarian, or whatever other party you could stand for. Not voting at all is just dumb.
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The funny thing about Federal property is that it is perfectly fine and legal for the e-branch to send in Federal agents to prevent angry mobs from destroying it. If Trump let it burn they would blame him for dereliction of duty because TDS sufferers are not constrained by logic or integrity. Our deep state showed its hand with the Russiagate hoax and Epstein. If those guys hate Trump, I say we need more Trump.
Agreed. What the media didn't do a good job of in the beginning was cover why these people were being grabbed. I think the federal agencies were a bit slow to respond publicly but still, there was not an attempt to explain how federal agents could be making arrests in certain situations.
I could find some critiques in the tactics of the officers who made the grabs though. Had they been a little smarter it wouldn't have looked so bad.
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The funny thing about Federal property is that it is perfectly fine and legal for the e-branch to send in Federal agents to prevent angry mobs from destroying it. If Trump let it burn they would blame him for dereliction of duty because TDS sufferers are not constrained by logic or integrity. Our deep state showed its hand with the Russiagate hoax and Epstein. If those guys hate Trump, I say we need more Trump.
The funny thing is that they were roaming blocks away from federal property and grabbing non-violent protesters off the street and throwing them into rental vans. And did you not see the ret. Navy Lt, get beat? You don’t get to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution to support.
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Agreed, abstaining is foolish. At the very least vote libertarian, or whatever other party you could stand for. Not voting at all is just dumb.
Abstaining is stupid and voting Libertarian is equally stupid because a third party candidate has 0% chance of winning. Voting, for all intents and purposes, is a binary choice. Trump is not perfect, but he is much better than Biden.
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Gosh... I just caught that then looked down and saw this reply.
Doesn't mean he will win a second time. I realize the people talking in the videos on this youtube channel are anecdotes and not statistical data but I think they might represent a fair number of former Trump voters.
I tend to agree with the sentiment that Trump only won because Clinton did so bad. She alienated democrats, she wasn't very likable, has issues of corruption, etc.
You really can't follow a conversation, can you? I was responding to your TOPIC that REPUBLICANS are against Trump. I never said my analysis meant he would be reelected.
Damn. It's like trying to push 10 feet of rope down the sidewalk.
The 2016 results are not simply about one factor or even several factors. Trump was a GENIUS in the way he campaigned. He beat out a YUUUUGE Republican field to get the nomination. That can't be viewed as "We didn't want the other Republican Candidates just as bad as we didn't want Hildabeast".
It would be nice if someone could actually do a comprehensive review on the REAL reasons Trump won so it could be documented.
Instead, we get "Hillary was a bad candidate," "Muh Russian Interference" and "Deplorables."
Depending on how much wine she's had to drink, Hillary will give a different excuse each time she's asked. The latest answer was that she didn't come across to voters as the fun person she actually is in private. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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So because I have a different opinion that makes me a troll? There are lots of conservatives who think Trump is a disaster. He’s a big city scammer who has screwed people over his entire life. It’s amazing he cowed people as long as he did, but he’s done now. Are you ok with him sending federal agents to grab people off the streets without cause and without regard for the Constitution? I don’t support the rioters but I won’t support him either. Not to mention his handling of the pandemic has been pathetic. He stuck his head in the sand in January and still hasn’t taken it out. This nation is better than that.
It's not that you have and posted an opposing opinion. It's the way you are making predictions and judgments without a single fact to support any of them.
Conclusions without evidence, basically.
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The funny thing is that they were roaming blocks away from federal property and grabbing non-violent protesters off the street and throwing them into rental vans. And did you not see the ret. Navy Lt, get beat? You don’t get to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution to support.
It’s a violent Marxist riot and you are making it sound like they raided a kids birthday party.
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Abstaining is stupid and voting Libertarian is equally stupid because a third party candidate has 0% chance of winning. Voting, for all intents and purposes, is a binary choice. Trump is not perfect, but he is much better than Biden.
You are saying what I normally state as: if you know there's no way for your candidate to win, then casting your vote for them is futile. The only candidates in 2016 with any chance at all were Clinton and Trump. Voting for anybody else has the same effect as voting against your choice among the top 2. That's why candidates like Perot and Kanye are called spoilers. They syphon off votes from candidates that might have won otherwise, yet the spoilers themselves can't come close to winning.
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Abstaining is stupid and voting Libertarian is equally stupid because a third party candidate has 0% chance of winning. Voting, for all intents and purposes, is a binary choice. Trump is not perfect, but he is much better than Biden.
Libertarians have a 0% chance of winning because sheep keep believing that.
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You are saying what I normally state as: if you know there's no way for your candidate to win, then casting your vote for them is futile. The only candidates in 2016 with any chance at all were Clinton and Trump. Voting for anybody else has the same effect as voting against your choice among the top 2. That's why candidates like Perot and Kanye are called spoilers. They syphon off votes from candidates that might have won otherwise, yet the spoilers themselves can't come close to winning.
Exactly. And if Kanye were to run, it would be beneficial for Trump's re-election since Kanye would siphon the black vote away from Biden
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You really can't follow a conversation, can you? I was responding to your TOPIC that REPUBLICANS are against Trump. I never said my analysis meant he would be reelected.
I am talking here and now genius, not 2016. Did you even look at the youtube channel? Full of republicans saying why they aren't supporting him anymore. Try to follow along.
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The funny thing is that they were roaming blocks away from federal property and grabbing non-violent protesters off the street and throwing them into rental vans. And did you not see the ret. Navy Lt, get beat? You don’t get to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution to support.
Irrelevant. If someone committed a federal crime by damaging federal property are the federal police supposed to just wait until the suspect comes back on property? It's not illegal for federal agents to identify a suspect and then make the arrest on a city or state roadway.
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Libertarians have a 0% chance of winning because sheep keep believing that.
Libertarians have 0% chance of winning because It's a philosophy that endorses drug decriminalization, open borders, and opposes most military interventions.
They really have no plan for the future. Their ideology is one of allowing the individual to do anything they want unless they hurt or interfere with the rights of others.
The problem is obvious. Who decides when others' rights are being violated by an individual? Who decides what those rights are? What's the penalty for doing that?
You can't advocate for complete individual freedom in a very large society. At some point, every system collapses: education, infrastructure, economic, ...
Most of what I've read and seen about Libertarianism tells me it's just another word for anarchy. The only difference is anarchy wants to abolish government, while Libertarians want a government that does not make and enforce laws which compel standards of individual behaviors, but still provides the limited functions they think gov't should provide.
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Exactly. And if Kanye were to run, it would be beneficial for Trump's re-election since Kanye would siphon the black vote away from Biden
Kanye (you know he's a Trump supporter) is running to educate the black community about the Democrat party so yes he will siphon off the black vote from Biden. Brilliant move by Kanye, he knows that he will never win so he will bow out and re-support Trump bringing along black voters over to Trump
The funny thing is that they were roaming blocks away from federal property and grabbing non-violent protesters off the street and throwing them into rental vans. And did you not see the ret. Navy Lt, get beat? You don’t get to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution to support.
The Feds are grabbing Antifa leaders/agitators not non-violent protestors. The Feds know who the Antifa thugs are and will grab them when they are alone rather when they are in a group. In a group the protesters/thugs would swarm the feds so that they will not be able to grab their target. Remember alone you are weak together you are strong.
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Nothing peaceful about these charges...
https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/18-arrested-facing-federal-charges-after-weeknight-protests-federal-courthouse-portland
in regards the the navy guy I would really like to see a longer video, You shouldn't form an opinion of a situation based only on info provided by shreaching spoiled brats who don't have a very good track record of telling the whole truth.
girl needs help to ID the patches of the "Storm Troopers, Gestapo, sequet police"
https://mobile.twitter.com/kathy_markovich/status/1286990002728120320/photo/1
I will say this, I am totally for letting the people in these cities getting exactly what they voted for, Trump should back off policing these areas. He is giving the media exactly what they want, the politicians are trying to play both sides of the coin a lot of them secretly requested help from federal LEO and immediately go on the news to talk trash once they (the Feds) get to work. Deny ALL Emergency federal funds to fix the damage caused by these riots.
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This kid seems okay with his friends using lasers to permanently blind federal agents, which makes me kind of enjoy the sound of that less lethal round smacking his face.
https://twitter.com/rsingel/status/1287129450857955328
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in regards the the navy guy I would really like to see a longer video, pretty lame to form an opinion of a situation based only on info provided by shreaching spoiled brats who don't have a very good track record of telling the whole truth.
This is a bit longer. You can see the 53 yr old Navy Vet walking up to the police line in his gray hoodie before the camera pans wildly to the left, then back onto the Vet.
https://twitter.com/PDXzane/status/1284733976582615040
Here's what the Hill said in a write-up about the incident:
Christopher David, a onetime member of the Navy’s Civil Engineer Corps, told The Washington Post that after he saw
the officers rush a line of protesters and knock several to the ground, he addressed them directly, shouting “Why are
you not honoring your oath to the Constitution?”
In response, several officers shoved him, but he was able to keep his balance. Another agent beat David with his baton
while one sprayed him in the face with a chemical irritant, after which he finally walked away, making his way to a bench
where a street medic provided aid, according to the Post. He later learned his right hand was broken.
I already knew that refusing to comply with orders to step back while trying to engage them with questions about failing to uphold the Constitution won't go well for you. Hopefully, he's learned that lesson now as well. The Cops are not there to debate the motivations for the people in the street that night. They have a specific job to perform. If you think otherwise, then you have the right to TRY. When you lose, don't blame the Cops. They were there for crowd control and to protect lives and property. Interfering with that is how you get an ass kicking. Just ask Chris Rock.
https://youtu.be/uj0mtxXEGE8
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This is a bit longer. You can see the 53 yr old Navy Vet walking up to the police line in his gray hoodie before the camera pans wildly to the left, then back onto the Vet.
https://twitter.com/PDXzane/status/1284733976582615040
Here's what the Hill said in a write-up about the incident:
I already knew that refusing to comply with orders to step back while trying to engage them with questions about failing to uphold the Constitution won't go well for you. Hopefully, he's learned that lesson now as well. The Cops are not there to debate the motivations for the people in the street that night. They have a specific job to perform. If you think otherwise, then you have the right to TRY. When you lose, don't blame the Cops. They were there for crowd control and to protect lives and property. Interfering with that is how you get an ass kicking. Just ask Chris Rock.
https://youtu.be/uj0mtxXEGE8
Although I've seen guys beat like that in the video.
Most cops don't do that. It is to strenuous for them.
They just shoot regardless of race.
The other advice about obeying the Law, is
probably the lesson.
If I never violate a law
there is no reason to EVER interact
with a government agent eg a cop.
I pay taxes, and do the normal life thing
Vote, military service, marriage,
educate, and raise my kids et al.
But if I ever have to talk to a cop it will be too soon!
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Although I've seen guys beat like that in the video.
Most cops don't do that. It is to strenuous for them.
They just shoot regardless of race.
The other advice about obeying the Law, is
probably the lesson.
If I never violate a law
there is no reason to EVER interact
with a government agent eg a cop.
I pay taxes, and do the normal life thing
Vote, military service, marriage,
educate, and raise my kids et al.
But if I ever have to talk to a cop it will be too soon!
The last time I can remember talking to a Cop was to submit my CCW permit application in Pahrump, NV. :thumbsup:
Seems there are some in society who can't do anything without having to talk to the Cops.
Cause and effect.
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Libertarians have 0% chance of winning because It's a philosophy that endorses drug decriminalization, open borders, and opposes most military interventions.
They really have no plan for the future. Their ideology is one of allowing the individual to do anything they want unless they hurt or interfere with the rights of others.
The problem is obvious. Who decides when others' rights are being violated by an individual? Who decides what those rights are? What's the penalty for doing that?
You can't advocate for complete individual freedom in a very large society. At some point, every system collapses: education, infrastructure, economic, ...
Most of what I've read and seen about Libertarianism tells me it's just another word for anarchy. The only difference is anarchy wants to abolish government, while Libertarians want a government that does not make and enforce laws which compel standards of individual behaviors, but still provides the limited functions they think gov't should provide.
Libertarianism and anarchy are not the same thing. Not all libertarian candidates are even that far right, some fit right in with other republicans. I don't even agree with libertarians on everything nor do I identify as one so I am not just pushing my views here.
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Exactly. And if Kanye were to run, it would be beneficial for Trump's re-election since Kanye would siphon the black vote away from Biden
Unless he siphons votes away from Trump.
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Libertarianism and anarchy are not the same thing. Not all libertarian candidates are even that far right, some fit right in with other republicans. I don't even agree with libertarians on everything nor do I identify as one so I am not just pushing my views here.
The political spectrum has two axes: authoritarian/anarchy and capitalist/socialist. Libertarians are similar to anarchists in that they both support the absence of government.
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Libertarianism and anarchy are not the same thing. Not all libertarian candidates are even that far right, some fit right in with other republicans. I don't even agree with libertarians on everything nor do I identify as one so I am not just pushing my views here.
Somehow you always use extreme arguments to try and make your point.
WE KNOW not ALL of those who identify as <insert party affiliation here> are the exact same. That's NOT the point. The ones running for the office ARE that far to the extreme -- and I don't place them on the right. They are in the backfield arguing against everything the Left AND the Right are for.
And, no, I'm not saying ALL. Just those running for office.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvULsrjLdI4
https://youtu.be/xaDl8MkcHsE
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This is why trying to stuff everyone into an ideological Procrustean bed is useless, frustrating, and contributes to our dangerously fractious national situation. The nice thing about libertarians is that they take a lot of pride in their imaginary rugged individualism, which makes them less susceptible to the brutal loyalty testing of the two major parties (and their corporate sponsors). Some of their members can be really annoying, but as a group they generally seem a lot less unhinged and tastelessly hostile. I like it that the majority of them are against the forever wars and other waste of taxpayer money in exchange for making our world more dangerous. It’s also nice to know there are still conservatives out there who actually fit the definition on more than just social issues.
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The political spectrum has two axes: authoritarian/anarchy and capitalist/socialist. Libertarians are similar to anarchists in that they both support the absence of government.
Granted I don't go to libertarian meetings or anything but most I have chatted with don't want an absent government, they just want a smaller government.
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This is why trying to stuff everyone into an ideological Procrustean bed is useless, frustrating, and contributes to our dangerously fractious national situation. The nice thing about libertarians is that they take a lot of pride in their imaginary rugged individualism, which makes them less susceptible to the brutal loyalty testing of the two major parties (and their corporate sponsors). Some of their members can be really annoying, but as a group they generally seem a lot less unhinged and tastelessly hostile. I like it that the majority of them are against the forever wars and other waste of taxpayer money in exchange for making our world more dangerous. It’s also nice to know there are still conservatives out there who actually fit the definition on more than just social issues.
Agreed. I can get behind a number of their positions but the farther right they tend to go the more they are imaging a fairytale utopia.
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What shook some of his support currently (in my opinion) is the lack up in till recently not suppressing yhe riots. And while I understand is that this is a local issue not a federal issue. Most people don't understand that. Also two of Trumps largest successes the economy and have been impacted by the coronavirus. The more Trump controls these three things the better he will do in the next election.
Youre hands would be tied too, if two mega billionaires were funding out of staters to come and start crap, members of Congress condoning it, and governors/mayors allowing it.
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Jeff Sessions was the monkey wrench,