2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Bota-CS1 on August 14, 2020, 06:51:34 AM
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https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/firearmspolicycoalition/pages/5718/attachments/original/1597420688/2020-8-14-ca9-duncan-panel-decision.pdf?1597420688
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You beat me to it!!!
This is an awesome announcement. Now the question is will Hawaii quietly just abide by this or will California go for the en banc review.
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https://www.firearmspolicy.org/9th-circuit-holds-large-capacity-firearm-magazines-protected-2nd-amendment
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You beat me to it!!!
This is an awesome announcement. Now the question is will Hawaii quietly just abide by this or will California go for the en banc review.
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That’s a good question. Cal lost their case in front of Benitez, and now have lost to the 3 judge appeals panel. Do they go for the En Banc and risk losing again? Each ruling against the state IMO strengthens the plaintiffs position. Hopefully some of our members with trial experience can weigh in.
I’ve only gotten to page 62 of the 80 or so pages but from what little I’ve read of the dissenting judges opinions her main argument is this ruling goes against the 9ths ruling Foyck -someone correct me here if I’m off base.
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That’s a good question. Cal lost their case in front of Benitez, and now have lost to the 3 judge appeals panel. Do they go for the En Banc and risk losing again? Each ruling against the state IMO strengthens the plaintiffs position. Hopefully some of our members with trial experience can weigh in.
I’ve only gotten to page 62 of the 80 or so pages but from what little I’ve read of the dissenting judges opinions her main argument is this ruling goes against the 9ths ruling Foyck -someone correct me here if I’m off base.
I'm still at page 14....
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Post haste, make your way to your defensive emplacement and banish those heathens to the next world.... Tally Ho!
(https://i.redd.it/3p0f2nqli6k01.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/2007/5778843328_203a735286_b.jpg)
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OK so the real question here is... does this ruling make the current Hawaii statute invalid as this is a 9th Circuit ruling and not a State of CA ruling?
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CA is adamant about keeping the ban and so are the people who fund them. So they will take this to the next level. Because if they don't then it's still a loss and all mags are legal. FREEDOM WEEK #2?
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OK so the real question here is... does this ruling make the current Hawaii statute invalid as this is a 9th Circuit ruling and not a State of CA ruling?
It doesn't apply to Hawaii until we file a lawsuit to apply the 9th ruling here. Gotta wait to see if it's taken up En Banc
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I would be willing to support if I knew which date we would file. What would be the harm in filing now?
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Great news! Hopefully it will be handgun mag shopping time soon.
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Great news! Hopefully it will be handgun mag shopping time soon.
Yup! If handgun mag restriction changes come around here, there are a few handguns I would pick up.
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There will probably also be a lot of semi-functional 1911s hitting the used market.
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Hey guys, im super stoked that Commiefornia lost, and the residents have won some of their rights back
I had a question, but a post answered it for me. Gotta wait for the dust to settle, then we collectively submit requests to match circuit policy, and if they decline, file lawsuit. Thanks!
Hopefully Becerra stops his losing battle and lets it be.
Of all things we learned in HS Government class, this is not ringing a memory on how it works.
All i can say, is if this does get appealed and taken to SCOTUS, they do their danged job and affirm the lower courts rulings, meaning we ALL win!
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Tomorrow is the deadline for the state to submit it's response to the decision from 08/14. :thumbsup:
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Tomorrow is the deadline for the state to submit it's response to the decision from 08/14. :thumbsup:
I watched “Armed Scholar” on YouTube. Even if Becerra does nothing it still ain’t over. A whole bunch of things need to happen before California can start buying. I believe he said best case scenario if everything goes our way September 8th will be the day.
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Tomorrow is the deadline for the state to submit it's response to the decision from 08/14. :thumbsup:
I bet they get an extension
because
COVID!
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I watched “Armed Scholar” on YouTube. Even if Becerra does nothing it still ain’t over. A whole bunch of things need to happen before California can start buying. I believe he said best case scenario if everything goes our way September 8th will be the day.
What’s probably more important than the ruling itself is the fact that strict scrutiny was used to determine if the law violated the constitution versis intermediate scrutiny before. Strict scrutiny is a much higher threshold to meet for the State.
(https://i.imgur.com/mvzaWwX.jpg)
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Attorney General Becerra Continues Defense of California’s Ban on Acquisition and Possession of Large-Capacity Magazines
https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-becerra-continues-defense-california%E2%80%99s-ban-acquisition-and
Friday, August 28, 2020
Contact: (916) 210-6000, agpressoffice@doj.ca.gov
Petition filed in appellate court to rehear decision in Duncan v. Becerra
SACRAMENTO – California Attorney General Xavier Becerra today filed a petition in the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit seeking en banc review of a recent decision in Duncan v. Becerra. On August 14, 2020, a divided three-judge panel upheld a federal district court’s ruling that California’s ban on the acquisition and possession of large-capacity magazines (LCMs) was unconstitutional. In today’s filing, Attorney General Becerra has taken the next step to defend California’s gun safety laws by asking an en banc panel of the court to review the decision.
“Our commonsense gun safety measures here in California have a track record of success in doing what they were meant to do — keep our communities safe,” said Attorney General Becerra. “We disagree with the Court’s initial decision and will continue to use every tool we have to defend the constitutionality of our laws.”
In today’s filing, Attorney General Becerra argues that the three-judge panel’s decision is inconsistent with existing caselaw and will threaten the safety of Californians.
Large-capacity magazines are defined as gun magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. It has been illegal in California to manufacture, import, keep or offer for sale, give, or lend LCMs since 2000, and illegal to purchase and receive them since 2013. Proposition 63, which was passed by Californians in 2016, added a ban on the possession of LCMs. In March 2019, the District Court for the Southern District of California ruled that the law was unconstitutional. In July 2019, Attorney General Becerra appealed the decision.
LCMs have been used in many horrific mass shootings around the country, including the shooting at the Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks in 2018, and the shooting at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino in 2015. The use of large-capacity magazines in mass shootings results in more lives lost and more people injured. Attorney General Becerra remains committed to upholding the constitutionality of California’s restrictions on large-capacity magazines to protect the public from these dangerous firearm accessories.
The ban on the sale, purchase, manufacture, importation, or acquisition of LCMs remains in effect pending appeal.
A copy of the filing can be found here. https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/attachments/press-docs/Duncan%20v.%20Becerra%20-%20Petition%20for%20Rehearing%20En%20Banc%20FINAL%20FILED%20VERSION.pdf
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Can that appeal to rehear en banc be denied, or is it automatically going to be a go?
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Can that appeal to rehear en banc be denied, or is it automatically going to be a go?
Does this help?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frap/rule_35
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This being the 9th Circus, I guess there will be an en banc hearing and we have to rely on the luck of the draw to win.
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This being the 9th Circus, I guess there will be an en banc hearing and we have to rely on the luck of the draw to win.
Got about a 40% chance of winning if based on the appointment of judges
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Does this help?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frap/rule_35
This is the one phrase that sets me off in legalese,
"the proceeding involves a question of exceptional importance"
The word "exceptional" is so subjective, the local Hawaii police chiefs deny
you the right of self protection and other liberals use
it to deny you many other rights,
because they don't think your problem is
"exceptional".
Or if it is a political issue like gun magazine capacity
then it becomes "exceptional".
Bull schiff!
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This is the one phrase that sets me off in legalese,
"the proceeding involves a question of exceptional importance"
The word "exceptional" is so subjective, the local Hawaii police chiefs deny
you the right of self protection and other liberals use
it to deny you many other rights,
because they don't think your problem is
"exceptional".
Or if it is a political issue like gun magazine capacity
then it becomes "exceptional".
Bull schiff!
Trying to support the issue as one of "exceptional importance" based on empirical, scientific, statistical and/or demonstrably important facts as they relate to public safety is going to be impossible.
Too many jurisdictions have no such limits, and there is no proven relationship between mag capacities and violence.
Mag capacities for police are based on manufacturer specs. That standard should be applied to the public as well.
"High Capacity" mags are in common use by the population. That meets one of the standards set for determining if a firearm/component is protected by the 2A.
Any limits must be set based on some sort of rational justification. All mag limits are arbitrary and unsupported by any rational factors. Why is 10 rds better than 15? Why is 10 better than 30? Why is not 5 better? or 7? or 12? There's no reasonable justification for the number being set. Therefore, to argue that these limits will "save lives" is rhetorical at best.
Any hypothetical benefits of mag limits placed on those who would use these weapons for criminal acts are more than offset by the benefit of these higher capacity mags in the hands of law abiding gun owners who rely on them to protect lives and property. Their needs are no different than the needs of law enforcement when facing a threat.
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The 9th circuit has, in addition to the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure, its own modifications and interpretations to those rules. The textual modifications can be found at the following link. Interpretations of those rules are buried in the hundreds of thousands of published opinions in this circuit. https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/rules/ (https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/rules/)
Much more information regarding the en banc procedures can be found in the General Orders -> https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/rules/general_orders.php (https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/rules/general_orders.php)
The short version is it will take a majority of the active 9th circuit court of appeals judges to vote in favor of granting the en banc petition for it to be granted. A non-vote counts as a "No" vote. The Chief Judge for this circuit is also the en banc coordinator. He can shorten or lengthen the timeline as he sees fit which means there is no way of knowing how long it will take to make the decision.