2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Heavies on October 07, 2020, 12:20:42 AM
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Now they are coming after pistols/pistol braces....
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-rules-qs-honey-badge-is-a-short-barrel-rifle-issues-cease-and-desist-letter/?fbclid=IwAR29ydMrLxGyjMWZqNblSohSEzO0U8S0hqV8Hp2YKCnZ5F8wzwis86qXwTI
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Rip what's next. I guess this is one thing people in Hawaii don't have to worry about because of our horrible gun laws we can't even own braced guns.
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Rip what's next. I guess this is one thing people in Hawaii don't have to worry about because of our horrible gun laws we can't even own braced guns.
We can own braced bolt action guns, who said we can’t? I can never tell of you’re being sarcastic or genuine. Hawaii residents should be worried about it because a regulatory agency over 3,000 miles away has arbitrarily decided that something they determined was not something is that very thing (a stock). And they’ve done so without providing any reason or explanation as to how they arrived at that determination other than a “holistic view” of a firearm. To top it all off the ATF has also ignored congressional inquires into their decision/determination making process. It’s complete and utter bull 💩.
https://youtu.be/gCpUdKf9TmY (https://youtu.be/gCpUdKf9TmY)
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. Phone acting up. Duplicate post.
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We can own braced bolt action guns, who said we can’t? I can never tell of you’re being sarcastic or genuine. Hawaii residents should be worried about it because a regulatory agency over 3,000 miles away has arbitrarily decided that something they determined was not something is that very thing (a stock). And they’ve done so without providing any reason or explanation as to how they arrived at that determination other than a “holistic view” of a firearm. To top it all off the ATF has also ignored congressional inquires into their decision/determination making process. It’s complete and utter bull 💩.
Tbh I've never actually thought of that. I have never even seen a braced bolt action gun. Don't get me wrong I think the ATF should be gutted and all the regulations with it. I really want to have a silenced short barrel 300 blackout.
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Rip what's next. I guess this is one thing people in Hawaii don't have to worry about because of our horrible gun laws we can't even own braced guns.
i know multiple people in hawaii that own semi auto braced guns that were legally registered that way...
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i know multiple people in hawaii that own semi auto braced guns that were legally registered that way...
I stand corrected. We are probably the only state with those though lol
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Tbh I've never actually thought of that. I have never even seen a braced bolt action gun. Don't get me wrong I think the ATF should be gutted and all the regulations with it. I really want to have a silenced short barrel 300 blackout.
Some who are building HI compliant "assault pistols" blocked the gas block. So gotta pull the charging handle each time. IDK if that's considered a bolt action or something else.
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Some who are building HI compliant "assault pistols" blocked the gas block. So gotta pull the charging handle each time. IDK if that's considered a bolt action or something else.
Doesn't matter what it *IS*. Only matters that it *IS NOT* a semi-auto. :thumbsup:
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Doesn't matter what it *IS*. Only matters that it *IS NOT* a semi-auto. :thumbsup:
Full auto ok then. :D
I am seriously thinking of getting the pistol brace for Glock pistols that Arms Unlimited is selling for $99 and attaches in less than 30 seconds with one allen head screw. It says it fits on the Umarex BB pistol Glock clone, of which I have one.
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Recover-Tactical-Glock-Stock-Pistol-Stabilizer-Kit-p/skgp-2020b.htm
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Full auto ok then. :D
I am seriously thinking of getting the pistol brace for Glock pistols that Arms Unlimited is selling for $99 and attaches in less than 30 seconds with one allen head screw. It says it fits on the Umarex BB pistol Glock clone, of which I have one.
https://www.armsunlimited.com/Recover-Tactical-Glock-Stock-Pistol-Stabilizer-Kit-p/skgp-2020b.htm
Yea they do fit as well as all caa roni kits. My friend has 1 for his airsoft pistol. I still play airsoft lol. Only way i can "own" a scar l sbr and mp5 with hk trademarks. Hahahaha
But seriously ... fun fact:
I saw on youtube yesterday, in austrailia you have to register gel blasters like a real firearm. You actually have to go to the police station and register it even though it shoot these little gel pellets. And on top of that you need to pay to go to a shooting class thats 200 bucks. We have it bad but its even worse there.
Sorry for going off subject.
But i was watching guns and gear YT channel. The only thing he mentioned bout the honey badger that made sense was due to the sb brace. It actually moves so youll get a 13.5" lop. I didnt know that til i saw it on 3 other vids on the badger. And people extending the brace out.
Iirc, an a2 buttstock will give you a 13.5" lop.
So maybe if they just change the brace or tac weld it so its less than 13.5 inch lop as well as OAL of the firearm it should be good. Perhaps?
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Yea they do fit as well as all caa roni kits. My friend has 1 for his airsoft pistol. I still play airsoft lol. Only way i can "own" a scar l sbr and mp5 with hk trademarks. Hahahaha
But seriously ... fun fact:
I saw on youtube yesterday, in austrailia you have to register gel blasters like a real firearm. You actually have to go to the police station and register it even though it shoot these little gel pellets. And on top of that you need to pay to go to a shooting class thats 200 bucks. We have it bad but its even worse there.
Sorry for going off subject.
But i was watching guns and gear YT channel. The only thing he mentioned bout the honey badger that made sense was due to the sb brace. It actually moves so youll get a 13.5" lop. I didnt know that til i saw it on 3 other vids on the badger. And people extending the brace out.
Iirc, an a2 buttstock will give you a 13.5" lop.
So maybe if they just change the brace or tac weld it so its less than 13.5 inch lop as well as OAL of the firearm it should be good. Perhaps?
The LOP on the HB is less than 13.5" (13.35") if measured straight from the receiver. The ATF Tech Branch previously measured SB braces straight from the receiver. The only way you get to 13.5" is if you measure from the trigger to the end of the extended stock. Forward to 4:22. SB has tried in the past to work with the ATF to come up with a set of standards for braces, which they refused to do. Also at 7:00 mark about the delayed limp wrist response from the NRA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuNvgFfrcAI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuNvgFfrcAI)
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This is where the ATF is messed up. There is no definition in law that says LOP defines what constitutes a SBR. The law states that if it's design is intended to be shouldered.
Also, seen a vid that said this letter was sent by a field agent, not the branch head.
They are making this up as they go. Wonder if they had employee transfers from HPD?
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(https://i.imgur.com/V3A9m5x.jpg)
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This is where the ATF is messed up. There is no definition in law that says LOP defines what constitutes a SBR. The law states that if it's design is intended to be shouldered.
Also, seen a vid that said this letter was sent by a field agent, not the branch head.
They are making this up as they go. Wonder if they had employee transfers from HPD?
The theory is there are still obama moles in the ATF that are trying to sabotage Trump re election by dividing firearm owners.
Supposedly the white house never authorized this and are inquiring and telling the ATF to stand down.
The ATF did this to themselves with vague terms and definitions
People followed the rules and found there are other ways to get the "design" sbr without having to pay the $200 tax stamp. Now it's getting popular/ the industry is changing&adopting it's a issue.
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Coulda seen this one coming for a long time. "Pistol braces" were obviously just stocks pretending to not be stocks.
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ATF has granted a 60 day stay in regards to it's cease and desist letter to Q, which is an thinly veiled political move seeing as how that will put the decision into the next Presidential term. I believe they're doing this in hopes that a new administration will have a less than favorable view of pistol braces which is nothing more than a political hit job since no other manufacturer was issued such a notice (Maxim, DD, Arsenal, Sig, Noveske, all of which offer product lines which feature braces), and it's pretty well known that the founder of Q is closely associated with the Trump family.
Coulda seen this one coming for a long time. "Pistol braces" were obviously just stocks pretending to not be stocks.
So you agree with the ATF's previous assessment that "bUmpStOcKs ArE mUhShEeNGuns" :wacko:
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I think the ATF should be disbanded partially, I am probably more on the extreme side, but I think machineguns, short barreled, suppressed and other ATF regulated things should be allowed and is part of the 2nd amendment.
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Sounds like a political move by the ATF. They know this would upset Trump supporters and if his admin did nothing, then possible votes lost. But not to Biden, prob to Jo.
Or 4D chess and Trump told them to do this and he had his letter ready to go to counter, so it looks like he's helping the 2a. Cause you know he did jack shit with bump stocks. And didn't push the reciprocity which I was hoping for.
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Sounds like a political move by the ATF. They know this would upset Trump supporters and if his admin did nothing, then possible votes lost. But not to Biden, prob to Jo.
Or 4D chess and Trump told them to do this and he had his letter ready to go to counter, so it looks like he's helping the 2a. Cause you know he did jack shit with bump stocks. And didn't push the reciprocity which I was hoping for.
Doubt its 4D chess. Probably going to add to the list of things he didn't do for gun rights.
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Doubt its 4D chess. Probably going to add to the list of things he didn't do for gun rights.
better than voting for Biden
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better than voting for Biden
I haven't seen Trump advocating for double barrel shotguns fired off the balcony in the dark of night. Also haven't seen him trying to say how an AR-15 is harder to aim and shoot than a shotgun.
Neither is he promising to put Beto "we are coming for your guns" O'Rourke in charge of gun control policy.
Until then, Trump is still head and shoulders above Biden on guns.
You can't avoid voting for an imperfect man while waiting for the perfect 2A president. We don't ever have that luxury.
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better than voting for Biden
I haven't seen Trump advocating for double barrel shotguns fired off the balcony in the dark of night. Also haven't seen him trying to say how an AR-15 is harder to aim and shoot than a shotgun.
Neither is he promising to put Beto "we are coming for your guns" O'Rourke in charge of gun control policy.
Until then, Trump is still head and shoulders above Biden on guns.
You can't avoid voting for an imperfect man while waiting for the perfect 2A president. We don't ever have that luxury.
True I guess that's part of the reason in the end I didn't vote Biden. But not the candidate that ran so pro 2a. So i guess we didn't get fucked but didn't get any promises.
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So you agree with the ATF's previous assessment that "bUmpStOcKs ArE mUhShEeNGuns" :wacko:
I don't recall the exact reasoning that the ATF used to ban bumpstocks but the decision also wasn't a surprise. Bumpstocks fairly effectively simulated automatic fire even though the gun wasn't a technically an automatic firearm. Pretending a pistol brace wasn't a stock is like insisting a bird isn't a duck even though it looks, acts, quacks, and tastes like a duck.
I looked at pistol braces a bit skeptically until I went to a gun store and I actually strapped the brace to my arm like they were supposedly designed to be used. It became pretty clear that pistol braces were just a product designed to fit through a loophole.
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I don't recall the exact reasoning that the ATF used to ban bumpstocks but the decision also wasn't a surprise. Bumpstocks fairly effectively simulated automatic fire even though the gun wasn't a technically an automatic firearm. Pretending a pistol brace wasn't a stock is like insisting a bird isn't a duck even though it looks, acts, quacks, and tastes like a duck.
I looked at pistol braces a bit skeptically until I went to a gun store and I actually strapped the brace to my arm like they were supposedly designed to be used. It became pretty clear that pistol braces were just a product designed to fit through a loophole.
Take SBRs off the NFA.
Fixes a multitude of problems, including these braces. The only rationale for not liking these braces is they "create" an SBR when the design is changed in order to use it as a shoulder stock.
If shouldering a pistol brace "creates" an SBR, then the definition, and restrictions, on actual SBRs needs to be repealed. If it's that easy to transform a pistol to an SBR, then the regulation has no reason to exist.
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Take SBRs off the NFA.
Fixes a multitude of problems, including these braces. The only rationale for not liking these braces is they "create" an SBR when the design is changed in order to use it as a shoulder stock.
If shouldering a pistol brace "creates" an SBR, then the definition, and restrictions, on actual SBRs needs to be repealed. If it's that easy to transform a pistol to an SBR, then the regulation has no reason to exist.
Omg this is the first thing I've heard flap say that I agree with. Belated Prime day miracle.
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Omg this is the first thing I've heard flap say that I agree with. Belated Prime day miracle.
Yay! This is what I live for...
... a 20-something's approval.
My life is now complete :geekdanc:
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were there a rash of crimes involving these stocks?
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were there a rash of crimes involving these stocks?
Just one that I know of .....
.... Mandalay Bay mass shooting in Las Vegas (more accurately Paradise, NV), targeting the Route 91 Harvest music festival.
The shooter had 14 AR-15s and 8 AR-10s. All 14 AR-15s were fitted with Bump Stocks -- 10 of which had 100 rd mags.
59 killed, plus 2 more, one in 2019 and one in 2020.
867 wounded.
He also fired 8 rounds at a large jet fuel tank 2,000 ft away. One struck the exterior only, and one penetrate the tank. Jet fuel is mostly kerosene and will not normally ignite from a bullet strike.
Time of attack: 10:05pm - 10:15pm. 10 minutes elapsed before he stopped firing.
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The fire sounded belt fed and not from a bump stock. #tinfoil #jetfueldoesntmeltsteel
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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The fire sounded belt fed and not from a bump stock. #tinfoil #jetfueldoesntmeltsteel
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
And Jeffrey Epstein had the shooter over to his island more than once. :tinfoil:
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And Jeffrey Epstein had the shooter over to his island more than once. :tinfoil:
He did. I saw the manifest on and old laptop someone left at my repair shop and never came back to pick up. :rofl:
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Take SBRs off the NFA.
Fixes a multitude of problems, including these braces. The only rationale for not liking these braces is they "create" an SBR when the design is changed in order to use it as a shoulder stock.
If shouldering a pistol brace "creates" an SBR, then the definition, and restrictions, on actual SBRs needs to be repealed. If it's that easy to transform a pistol to an SBR, then the regulation has no reason to exist.
That would certainly solve the issue. Plus with the buffer tube alone you can almost shoulder it decently anyway.
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Wait what?