2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Reloading => Topic started by: drck1000 on November 16, 2020, 11:05:46 AM
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Started down the reloading path (rabbit hole), first with gathering up ingredients. Will likely start loading up some ammo in the next 2-3 weeks in prep for the "refresh" to my Rem 700 .308, and have some plans for some test batches. But figured I'd get an idea of what has been working well for others.
Givens:
Rem 700 .308 Win 20" SPS barrel
Brass: FGMM once fired in my Rem 700
Powders: Varget, 8208, 4064, 3031, and Shooters World Precision Rifle
Heads: SMK 168 and 175, Nosler CC 168 gr, and Hornady ELD 168 gr
I've shot FGMM quite a bit with my current setup and idea is to start along those lines. Likely start with Varget and 4064 first.
Another powder from those listed above that I'm interested in is RL15.
Will eventually get into loading for .223 Rem, but that's a story for another day. . .
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Ask Rocky
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check this thread out: https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/OFFICIAL-308-PRECISION-LOAD-RECIPE-THREAD/10-12/&page=2 (https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/OFFICIAL-308-PRECISION-LOAD-RECIPE-THREAD/10-12/&page=2)
FYI. The poster Sinister was the commander of the Army Marksmanship Unit.
Originally Posted By Sinister:
41.0 of IMR 4895 pushing a 168 Sierra Match King won Gary Anderson the Olympics in 300 Meter rifle.
42.0 of IMR 4064 pushing a 175 Match King is an "Index Load" -- if your rifle doesn't shoot it well there's something's wrong with your hardware.
44 grains of Varget will push most bullets accurately in a bolt rifle. Stick around 42 to 43 for autoloaders.
you are responsible for your own load development. This information is not from me.
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check this thread out: https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/OFFICIAL-308-PRECISION-LOAD-RECIPE-THREAD/10-12/&page=2 (https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/OFFICIAL-308-PRECISION-LOAD-RECIPE-THREAD/10-12/&page=2)
FYI. The poster Sinister was the commander of the Army Marksmanship Unit.
Originally Posted By Sinister:
41.0 of IMR 4895 pushing a 168 Sierra Match King won Gary Anderson the Olympics in 300 Meter rifle.
42.0 of IMR 4064 pushing a 175 Match King is an "Index Load" -- if your rifle doesn't shoot it well there's something's wrong with your hardware.
44 grains of Varget will push most bullets accurately in a bolt rifle. Stick around 42 to 43 for autoloaders.
Awesome! Thank you! I'll check it out. Goes along with my current plan to start with Varget and 4064. No 4895.
I found a bunch of threads on Snipershide as well as guidance from some precision shooting teams. GA Precision and one other. Same/similar baseline for replicating FGMM loads, which is what I want to start with and hopefully get something dialed in there. Then eventually test other heads/boolits.
Snipershide has a lot of good information, but a lot of jackasses and PRS vs Fudd BS cloudying what otherwise is a bunch of good information. I used to browse there when I bought my Rem 700 years ago, and now I am remembering why I stopped reading there.
No plans for an autoloader, at least not yet.
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Sierra has an app that you can download with their load data for free. However, someone was complaining the other day that it isn’t fee any more. But worth a try. If not, Sierra data is worth the money. Or you can ask your friend Inspector and he may send you some pages from his Sierra and Hornady books. He accepts Paypal. :rofl:
I don’t have a Nosler book.
Hodgdon’s as an awesome online data resource that includes IMR and Winchester powders.
I don’t post recipes because I don’t want to be responsible for some knucklehead blowing up his gun cuz ‘Spector said so. :rofl:
Let me know if you want the pages and I’ll text them to you.
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Sierra has an app that you can download with their load data for free. However, someone was complaining the other day that it isn’t fee any more. But worth a try. If not, Sierra data is worth the money. Or you can ask your friend Inspector and he may send you some pages from his Sierra and Hornady books. He accepts Paypal. :rofl:
I don’t have a Nosler book.
Hodgdon’s as an awesome online data resource that includes IMR and Winchester powders.
I don’t post recipes because I don’t want to be responsible for some knucklehead blowing up his gun cuz ‘Spector said so. :rofl:
Let me know if you want the pages and I’ll text them to you.
Cool! I'll take whatever info is offered. I have a shooting buddy that as already started down the .308 Win road with a similar Rem 700 setup, so good data there. He'll be helping/guiding as well as I'll be using his press and other equipment. His approach is definitely safe and I will follow suit. I will prob jokingly fire off my first reload batch with a string and rifle in a lead sled. ;D
I did some research on the Hodgon page. I started with looking for info on the IMR stuff first since that's what I was able to get my hands on first. Then later got Varget.
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Cool! I'll take whatever info is offered. I have a shooting buddy that as already started down the .308 Win road with a similar Rem 700 setup, so good data there. He'll be helping/guiding as well as I'll be using his press and other equipment. His approach is definitely safe and I will follow suit. I will prob jokingly fire off my first reload batch with a string and rifle in a lead sled. ;D
I did some research on the Hodgon page. I started with looking for info on the IMR stuff first since that's what I was able to get my hands on first. Then later got Varget.
You are lucky to find Varget. It is manufactured in Australia and we have been getting very few shipments from them. So any Varget that you can find I suggest you snatch it up if you can afford to. You can also use it with heavier bullets in 223.
I’ll send you some pages in the next few hours when I get the time.
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for bolt guns I resize the neck only - of course with the same brass from that gun. Been using the Lee collet sizer
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You are lucky to find Varget. It is manufactured in Australia and we have been getting very few shipments from them. So any Varget that you can find I suggest you snatch it up if you can afford to. You can also use it with heavier bullets in 223.
I’ll send you some pages in the next few hours when I get the time.
Thank you!
Yup. That Varget and one of other powders I have for .308 also came up as recommended for .223 Rem, so definitely a plus! The shop I found Varget is limited 1# per visit. I was planning on going back for round 2. ;D I also found a product that is touted as "just as good as Varget", more readily available and slightly cheaper. It's supposedly not as humidity and temp stable as Varget, but it's not like I'm planning on using this for shooting on the mainland.
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for bolt guns I resize the neck only - of course with the same brass from that gun. Been using the Lee collet sizer
Yup, plan is only for bolt guns to start and the foreseeable future. I have a bunch of once fired brass from my gun, but also getting some "range pickup" FGMM brass.
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Thank you!
Yup. That Varget and one of other powders I have for .308 also came up as recommended for .223 Rem, so definitely a plus! The shop I found Varget is limited 1# per visit. I was planning on going back for round 2. ;D I also found a product that is touted as "just as good as Varget", more readily available and slightly cheaper. It's supposedly not as humidity and temp stable as Varget, but it's not like I'm planning on using this for shooting on the mainland.
I texted you the pages. Sorry, but my Hornady book is too old for ELD data. I sent it anyway just in case you wanted it.
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I texted you the pages. Sorry, but my Hornady book is too old for ELD data. I sent it anyway just in case you wanted it.
Thanks! Got them! There's lots of info on SMK combos. Not quite the components that I have on hand, but very good starting points. I'm on a few waiting lists for other components, but I am pretty happy about what I've been to pick up in the last couple of weeks.
I had put off shooting the .308 for a while. Picked a bad time to bring it back into the fold. I always knew the .308 would likely get me into handloading and start me down this rabbit hole. I mean I'm excited about doing so, but will see how involved I'll get into the details. I was chatting with a friend that I picked up some powder from and damn it can get into some very fine details.
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I forget how to post pictures on this forum. Been awhile since I’ve posted. But I do have digital Hornady and Sierra reloading manual and could probably take a snap shot for those weights. I also shoot those weights also in my .308. Just gotta figure out out how to post pictures.
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I forget how to post pictures on this forum. Been awhile since I’ve posted. But I do have digital Hornady and Sierra reloading manual and could probably take a snap shot for those weights. I also shoot those weights also in my .308. Just gotta figure out out how to post pictures.
If your Hornady manual has the load data for the ELD Match 168 gr heads, that would be awesome!
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I forget how to post pictures on this forum. Been awhile since I’ve posted. But I do have digital Hornady and Sierra reloading manual and could probably take a snap shot for those weights. I also shoot those weights also in my .308. Just gotta figure out out how to post pictures.
Best method is create a free picture-posting site account, like imgur.com Upload your images there, and edit them to make the sizes in the 400-800 pixel range. 600x800 is the max I ever use -- prefer 400x600 if there's no small text.
Then click the image in imgur, and copy the BBCode link. Paste that into your post here. Super easy. Just don't forget and delete the imgur pics you linked. That would break the links you posted here -- nothing to show.
:shaka:
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Yea it does.. I just checked the manual on my phone. When I go home today from work, I’ll take a snapshot of it and post it. Hornady and Sierra.
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Ask Rocky
IF I had a Rem 700 .308 Win 24" 5-R barrel
my go to would be
Fed GM210M Large rifle Match Primer
42g IMR 4064
168gr SMK HPBT
with an ogive of 2.825 (for that rifle I would have)
39g IMR 8208 XBR would give similar results.
39.4gr TAC also has close vel but would not appear to be as consistent.
I would only full size rounds NOT fired out of that particular firearm, then neck size with all others fired out of the same rifle from that point on.
Case length tends to "stretch" around 3+/- reloads and would require trim.
If I find data, will send.
:wave:
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https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
I only started reloading 308 with H4895. I also have H335 and Varget that I have not tried yet
I like to use the Hodgdon site for info. with the H4895 and 168 grain Sierra HPBT, i had best result with 43 grains
i still have to test with Varget and H335. I like that all these powders can be used with 223 and 308
have more testing to do. i dont shoot much 308. i'm a rookie reloader for 308 :D
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I don’t have a Nosler book.
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/308-winchester/
https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/308win/
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.308+Winchester+7.62+NATO.html
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx?page=/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx>ypeid=2
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?pl=308+Winchester&presets=308+Winchester%7E308+Win+168Gr+Hornady+A-Max%7EG1%7E.475%7E168%7E2700%7E100%7E1.5%7E0%7E10%7E90%7Efalse%7E0%7E59%7E29.92%7E50%7Etrue%7E1000%7E25&df=G1&bc=.475&bw=168&vi=2650&zr=100&sh=1.5&sa=15&ws=15&wa=60&cfa=on&alt=150&tmp=78&bar=29.92&hum=70&cr=500&ss=100&chartColumns=Range%7Eyd%3BElevation%7Ein%3BElevation%7EMOA%7EFBFFF5%3BElevation%7EMIL%3BWindage%7Ein%3BWindage%7EMOA%7EFBFFF5%3BWindage%7EMIL%3BTime%7Es%3BEnergy%7Eft.lbf%3BVel%5Bx%2By%5D%7Eft%2Fs&lbl=308+Win+168Gr+Sierra+HPBT+MK&submitst=+Create+Chart+
:thumbsup:
http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml
:shake: :shake: :shake:
https://bergerbullets.com/effects-of-cartridge-over-all-length-coal-and-cartridge-base-to-ogive-cbto-part-2/
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Yea it does.. I just checked the manual on my phone. When I go home today from work, I’ll take a snapshot of it and post it. Hornady and Sierra.
Cool! Any info helps on Hornady ELD. I have some good info on Sierra.
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IF I had a Rem 700 .308 Win 24" 5-R barrel
my go to would be
Fed GM210M Large rifle Match Primer
42g IMR 4064
168gr SMK HPBT
with an ogive of 2.825 (for that rifle I would have)
39g IMR 8208 XBR would give similar results.
39.4gr TAC also has close vel but would not appear to be as consistent.
I would only full size rounds NOT fired out of that particular firearm, then neck size with all others fired out of the same rifle from that point on.
Case length tends to "stretch" around 3+/- reloads and would require trim.
If I find data, will send.
:wave:
Thanks! I don't have the fancy 5R barrel. . . :(
My gun already shoots FGMM 168 gr pretty well, so starting there. I really want to try these Nosler CC heads. I have two of the powders you mentioned.
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https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
I only started reloading 308 with H4895. I also have H335 and Varget that I have not tried yet
I like to use the Hodgdon site for info. with the H4895 and 168 grain Sierra HPBT, i had best result with 43 grains
i still have to test with Varget and H335. I like that all these powders can be used with 223 and 308
have more testing to do. i dont shoot much 308. i'm a rookie reloader for 308 :D
Awesome! Another good data point. I don't have H4895 or H335.
That Varget works well with .223 Rem also is a huge plus for me. Primers on the other hand. . . :(
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For reference only.. Sierra Data
(Orange asterisk indicates low speeds or pressure load)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/E7UwDh.png) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnE7UwDhp)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/sMhnaY.png) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmsMhnaYp)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/cqrMbo.png) (https://imageshack.com/i/pncqrMbop)
For reference only.. Hornady data
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/XqLCQw.png) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmXqLCQwp)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/N8zn8K.png) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnN8zn8Kp)
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Thanks! I don't have the fancy 5R barrel. . . :(
My gun already shoots FGMM 168 gr pretty well, so starting there. I really want to try these Nosler CC heads. I have two of the powders you mentioned.
For me, half the fun of reloading is the testing of different bullets/powders/primers/cases etc. Every rifle is different so your rifle might prefer the Nosler over Sierra bullets etc. Generally speaking I have had limited success with Hornady bullets in my rifles. I have have tested a lot of them and almost every one has been disappointing in my rifles. Generally speaking I have had the most success with Sierra bullets including their Match Kings. With Nosler coming in a close second. You may find just the opposite. Who knows? If you ever have a little extra $ you might try Berger Bullets. I have seen better performance with Bergers in certain weight ranges in my 223 over SMK’s.
I have also had good luck with Varget in my 223 with bullets heavier than 65 grains. With H335 giving me better results with bullets lighter than 65 grains. I also saw good results with IMR4895. In my 30-06 I have had good results with 4064, 3031, Varget and IMR4895. H4895 seems to be in almost every cartridge in every load data book I have and Hodgdon’s lists it in a tremendous number cartridges including being able to use it in reduced loads if you ever want to dabble in that. The thing about H4895 is that I have used it in 223 and all of my 30 caliber cartridges and it seems to be a sort of Jack of All Trades, Master of None. So if you have a chance to pick up some H4895 it might work well for you over a range of cartridges.
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From what I understand, the Hornady ELDs have a thin jacket and like other thin jackets, the bullets may be sensitive to the distance to lands
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For reference only.. Sierra Data
(Orange asterisk indicates low speeds or pressure load)
For reference only.. Hornady data
Awesome! Thanks Rhed! I'm putting together my loading binder ref book and these will help.
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For me, half the fun of reloading is the testing of different bullets/powders/primers/cases etc. Every rifle is different so your rifle might prefer the Nosler over Sierra bullets etc. Generally speaking I have had limited success with Hornady bullets in my rifles. I have have tested a lot of them and almost every one has been disappointing in my rifles. Generally speaking I have had the most success with Sierra bullets including their Match Kings. With Nosler coming in a close second. You may find just the opposite. Who knows? If you ever have a little extra $ you might try Berger Bullets. I have seen better performance with Bergers in certain weight ranges in my 223 over SMK’s.
I have also had good luck with Varget in my 223 with bullets heavier than 65 grains. With H335 giving me better results with bullets lighter than 65 grains. I also saw good results with IMR4895. In my 30-06 I have had good results with 4064, 3031, Varget and IMR4895. H4895 seems to be in almost every cartridge in every load data book I have and Hodgdon’s lists it in a tremendous number cartridges including being able to use it in reduced loads if you ever want to dabble in that. The thing about H4895 is that I have used it in 223 and all of my 30 caliber cartridges and it seems to be a sort of Jack of All Trades, Master of None. So if you have a chance to pick up some H4895 it might work well for you over a range of cartridges.
The trying and testing is something I am interested in. Hopefully the range situation settles down. When they took down the "fun stuff" at KHSC, that really put a damper on things. Then the trying and testing part I know I would likely do diving head first down the rabbit hole, which I have already just started, and consume a lot of time. That's one of the reasons I stayed away. That and not much space for a workshop/bench.
I read good things about Berger. I went with whatever they had in stock at Midway a few weeks ago when I got a free shipping coupon. I'll keep an eye out for them in future. I also have a decent amount of options to try already, so taking it a little easy on buying components for a bit. Need more $$$ for the gun refresh. ;D
I'll have to be on the lookout for H4895. Seeing that more and more in the load data and threads about recipes. When I went to SEC that first time, I just knew my buddy was testing 4064 and 3031. Now that I am getting more info on what people have been trying, I can keep a sharper eye out for components.
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From what I understand, the Hornady ELDs have a thin jacket and like other thin jackets, the bullets may be sensitive to the distance to lands
I read good things about it online, so I figured give them a shot. Then got to talking to some more experienced folks locally and been getting mixed feedback. One that I have to watch out for is the OAL and fitting in magazines. My primary will be SMK and I really want to get to the Nosler.
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From what I understand, the Hornady ELDs have a thin jacket and like other thin jackets, the bullets may be sensitive to the distance to lands
And why I stress ogive for each bullet. :geekdanc:
I also chrono each load for comparison.
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(http://i.imgur.com/CDs3fnY.jpg) (https://imgur.com/CDs3fnY)
(http://i.imgur.com/0O62wG6.jpg) (https://imgur.com/0O62wG6)
(http://i.imgur.com/5Rd12UQ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/5Rd12UQ)
(http://i.imgur.com/FD4O7oD.jpg) (https://imgur.com/FD4O7oD)
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Dug up some of Rockette's old chrono and load data from shots at just over 100 yds on 8" down to 3" targets over several days.
Notice most days had prevailing winds from the right
(http://i.imgur.com/TmU9Mo4.jpg) (https://imgur.com/TmU9Mo4)
(http://i.imgur.com/RNBvI06.jpg) (https://imgur.com/RNBvI06)
(http://i.imgur.com/r4EPHZl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/r4EPHZl)
(http://i.imgur.com/bfBU3Rp.jpg) (https://imgur.com/bfBU3Rp)
(http://i.imgur.com/FROtZuR.jpg) (https://imgur.com/FROtZuR)
(Maybe I should re-visit this load :crazy:)
12" target is from 220 yds 10-12 degree down hill after figuring the right recipe (noted earlier) and finding ogive for same on a windless day.
2 rounds to zero.
Disregard my 5.56 rounds (2 in black @ 1:00 and 7:00, 7 stickers and 3 off black ::)
I'm too Pake to not use dots and same target. :oops:
(http://i.imgur.com/6ykW6oZ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/6ykW6oZ)
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Post from research
.308 Winchester Load Map
Powder Grains Primer Bullet Brass Velocity Comments
Hodgdon Varget 47.5 F210m Sierra 110 Varmint Win 3200 fps Very Accurate Varmint Load, 2.650" COAL
Reloader 15 47.0 F210m Hornady 110 V-Max Win 3200 fps Accurate, hard-hitting Varmint Load. Try .010" into lands.
Hodgdon H335 47.0 F210m Sierra 125 SP Fed 3100 fps Sierra's Hunting Load, 26" bbl, 2.700" COAL
IMR 4064 45.2 F210m Nosler 150 B-Tip Win 2843 fps Hunting Load, 26" bbl, 2.850" COAL
Alliant Reloader 15 46.2 CCI BR2 Lapua 155 Lapua 2920 fps Very Accurate in 25" 5R bbl, .3 MOA at 300m, 2.800" COAL
Hodgdon Varget 45.2 F210m Lapua 155 Lapua 2830 fps Z. Smith Tactical Match Load in 24" Accuracy Int'l, 2.850" COAL
Hodgdon Benchmark 44.0 F210m Lapua 155 Lapua 2895 fps Jason Baney 100-400m Load
Hodgdon Varget 45.5+ CCI BR2 155 SMK Lapua or Win 2950+ fps Jerry Tierney Palma Load
(Charge varies with lot)
Hodgdon Varget 47.0 CCI BR2 Berger 155 Lapua 2900+ fps John Whidden Palma Load
Alliant Reloader 15 44.0 CCI BR2 Hornady 168 A-Max Lapua 2700 fps Very Accurate, 1/4 moa to 400 yards. 2.875" COAL.
Alliant Reloader 15 42.0 F210m 168 SMK Fed 2600 fps Sierra's Accuracy Load Savage 12VSS
IMR 4064 43.5 F210m 168 SMK Win 2600+ fps Very Accurate in 24" bbl, 2.800" COAL.
Vihtavuori N150 43.5 F210m 168 SMK Win 2640 fps J. Gottfredson's Short-Range Match Load
Alliant Reloader 15 45.0 F210m 175 SMK Win 2750 fps Very Accurate from 24" 5R bbl.
IMR 4895 43.0 Win 175 SMK IMI Match 2753 fps Very Accurate, No Pressure Signs, 2.787" COAL, .018" jump
Hodgdon Varget 43.0 Russian 175 SMK Lapua 2610 fps Brad Sauve F-TR Match Load, .018" Jump
Hodgdon Varget 43.0 CCI BR2 175 SMK IMI Match 2685 fps Very Accurate, under 1/2-MOA, 2.787" COAL, .018" jump, 26" bbl
Hodgdon Varget 44.6 F210m 175 SMK LC na AR10 load for magazine, 2.807" COAL
Ramshot TAC 42.0 CCI BR2 175 SMK IMI Match 2705 fps Very Consistant under 1/2-MOA, 2.800" COAL, .005" jump
Vihtavuori N540 41.0 F210m 175 SMK Fed 2400 fps Sierra's Accuracy Load Savage 12VSS
Alliant Reloader 15 46.0 F210m Hornady 178 A-Max Horn Match na Note: Hornady brass has more capacity than Lapua. 2.845" OAL
IMR 4064 40.5 F210m 190 SMK Fed 2500 fps Sierra's Accuracy Load Savage 12VSS
WARNING: With all loads, ALWAYS START 10% LOW and work up incrementally.
QuickLOAD Projected Velocities in FPS with Increasing Barrel Length
Powder 20" 21" 22" 23" 24" 25" 26" 27" 28" 29" 30" 31" 32"
44.5gr Varget (ADI 2208) 2592 2620 2646 2671 2694 2716 2736 2756 2775 2792 2809 2825 2841
44.5gr IMR 4064 2628 2656 2681 2705 2728 2749 2770 2789 2807 2824 2841 2857 2872
Alliant Powder Reload Recipes
Caliber Bullet Case Minimum OAL
(inches) Bbl Length Primer Powder Charge Weight
(grains) Velocity
(fps) Notes
308 Win. Speer 110 gr HP IMI 2.55 22 CCI 200 Reloder 15
51 3,144 -
308 Win. Speer 125 gr HP IMI 2.615 22 CCI 200 Reloder 15
50 3,062 -
308 Win. Speer 150 gr SP IMI 2.7 22 CCI 200 Reloder 15
49 2,919 -
308 Win. Speer 165 gr SP IMI 2.8 22 CCI 200 Reloder 15
47 2,812 -
308 Win. Speer 168 gr BTHP 2.8 24 CCI 200 Reloder 15
45 2,710 -
308 Win. Speer 180 gr SP IMI 2.8 24 CCI 200 Reloder 15
45 2,613 -
308 Win. Speer 200 gr SP IMI 2.8 22 CCI 200 Reloder 15
42 2,416 -
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm Special Ball, Long Range, MK 316 MOD 0 (United States): A 175-grain (11.3 g) round specifically designed for long-range sniping consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers. The Propellant has been verified as IMR 4064 (per NSN 1305-01-567-6944 and Federal Cartridge Company Contract/Order Number N0016408DJN28 and has a charge weight per the specs of 41.745-grain (2.7 g).[19]
Remington 700 Mil-Spec 5R: Bargain buy for a thousand-yard rifle
6/11/13 | by Patrick Stump
To many shooters, the allure of long-range rifle shooting is irresistible. An accurate rifle that can reach out and touch at a thousand yards is an attractive part of any collection. What isn’t so glamorous of long-range shooting is emptying the life savings to afford a rifle capable of it. In the search for a rifle that could shoot well but wouldn’t break the bank, I came across a member of the Remington 700 family, the Mil-Spec 5R stainless steel in .308 Winchester.
The Remington 700 Mil-Spec 5R
The main feature that sets this rifle apart from other Remington rifles is the 5R rifled barrel. This is the same type of rifling used in the standard-issue M24 sniper rifles, which uses five lands and grooves instead of six. The edges of the lands are tapered down to the grooves, which results in a more complete gas seal around the bullet and the five lands and grooves cause less deformation of the bullet, which leads to better accuracy over conventional rifling.
The heavy-profile barrel is 24 inches long and made of stainless steel. Coupled with the 5R rifling is a faster 1 in 11.25-inch twist, allowing heavier bullets to be stabilized reliably.
The stock is made by H-S Precision, and is oversized in the forearm and the grip areas, giving the user a better grip purchase on the rifle. Inside the stock is a standard 5-round integral magazine with a swing-open floor plate. The action features full-length aluminum bedding, increasing shot-to-shot consistency. Remington’s new adjustable X-Mark Pro trigger is featured on the rifle, coming preset at 3.5 pounds with a clean break with absolutely no creep or takeup, and virtually no overtravel. A screw in the trigger allows the user to adjust the weight within a 2-pound range.
In the hands
The Remington 700 Mil-Spec 5R trigger. The adjustable screw is in the top center.
The rifle is both a looker and a feeler. While I have never been one for stainless steel on what is supposed to be a tactical rifle (my intentions were to have the rifle Cerakoted), the combination of black with green-webbed stock and stainless steel action and barrel complements each other well. It also sits well in the users arms from sitting or prone positions. However, the 5R is a little on the heavy side at 8.25 pounds, making it fairly impractical for accurate shooting from anything but a supported position. Even though it is a tad heavy, the rifle is rock solid in every way.
A controversial point of the 5R is the use of the X-Mark Pro trigger system. I generally like the trigger on the rifle. It is as advertised: a very crisp, adjustable trigger. My only problem with it is the adjustment system on the trigger. On the upper portion of the trigger, protruding diagonally out of the action, the adjustment screw is situated in the perfect position to dig into your trigger finger if it is anything but flush, especially if you have larger fingers like me. After several weeks and multiple range trips trying to find a compromise between trigger weight and finger comfort, I hesitantly removed the screw entirely. Surprisingly, the rifle still functions fine. There have been no slam fire issues, the trigger is not too sensitive, and the safety still functions correctly.
What it does best
My first experiences with the Remington 700 5R were disappointing, however, this was no fault of the rifle. After spending $1,100 on the rifle, my wallet was hurting and I tried to get away with an inexpensive scope, a Barska SWAT 10-40×50. It doomed all of my tests with the Remington to absolutely certain failure. The scope absolutely would NOT hold a zero. Despite using sandbags, a bipod, and even a rifle rest (Caldwell Lead Sled), I couldn’t achieve groups at 100 yards any better than 1-2 inches, which was NOT typical of this rifle, based on all of the experiences I had read.
While part of me had hoped that I could get away with using a cost-saving scope, I knew that I was being unrealistic. After a good customer service experience at a sporting good store, I spent a hundred more on a SWFA SuperSniper 20×42 scope, which I had read to be very good quality inexpensive scope. The new investment remedied any accuracy problems that I encountered with the old scope. Despite the fact that I shy away from fixed-power scopes because I am always afraid it will limit the rifle’s usefulness at different ranges, I am happy with the SWFA SS 20x. Its optics are clear and bright, has a very nice mil-dot reticle, and good eye relief.
The 5R surely is a pleasure to shoot. Because of its slightly more massive bulk from the heavy barrel and beefier stock, the already moderately tame .308 cartridge becomes even milder. The stock comes with a nice rubber butt pad also helping to reduce felt recoil. Achieving a good cheek weld isn’t difficult or uncomfortable, but a rubber cheek riser would really allow the user to be completely at rest when looking through a scope.
Food for thought (and your rifle)
While it seems to shoot all cartridges fairly well, the 5R does have a tendency to prefer heavier bullets. A steady diet of Sierra MatchKing 175 grain hollow-point boat-tail keeps my 5R healthy. Most cartridges that I shoot are hand-loads, but I have tried a few factory loads. So far, I have put the following through my Remington: Surplus M2 Ball, Nosler Custom Competition 168 grain HPBT, and dozens of batches of handloads.
The 5R likes handloads the best, and so far I have come up with the following recipe:
• Nosler .308 Brass
• Sierra MatchKing 175 grain HPBT
• Federal Gold Medal Match Primers
• 42.5 grains Hodgdon Varget Powder
• 2.855 inch Cartridge Length
• No crimp
I use the 175 grain long range match bullet over:
44.6 grains of N150
Winchester brass ( full length sized and trimmed to 2.008)
Wolf large Rifle primers
COAL 2.83
Barrel length: 12 twist 24 inch.
I use 2 different powders Varget and IMR 4064. 2 different rounds also 175gr. smk and 168gr. smk. CCI BR-2 primers.
for 175gr smk:
Varget 43 or 44gr.
IMR 4064 43.5 is my money load. Very accurate in my Rem700
for 168gr. smk:
Varget 44.5 or 45gr.
IMR 4064 45gr.
Lapua 155 Scenar
Lapua Case
CCI BR Primer
N150 Powder start at 43.0 grains and work up from there
Load to overal length of 2.82"
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Another neat trick I've posted before to save time on setting COL and figuring out ogive.
Less bullet puller/hammer action. :D
Mind you case manufacturer is different so if using multiple types of cases, you'll need one for each different case.
(http://i.imgur.com/g664xoz.jpg) (https://imgur.com/g664xoz)
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good thing that "your friend" bought you all those "heads" to try at the gun show a few years ago...
:thumbsup:
Post from research
.308 Winchester Load Map
Powder Grains Primer Bullet Brass Velocity Comments
Hodgdon Varget 47.5 F210m Sierra 110 Varmint Win 3200 fps Very Accurate Varmint Load, 2.650" COAL
Reloader 15 47.0 F210m Hornady 110 V-Max Win 3200 fps Accurate, hard-hitting Varmint Load. Try .010" into lands.
Hodgdon H335 47.0 F210m Sierra 125 SP Fed 3100 fps Sierra's Hunting Load, 26" bbl, 2.700" COAL
IMR 4064 45.2 F210m Nosler 150 B-Tip Win 2843 fps Hunting Load, 26" bbl, 2.850" COAL
Alliant Reloader 15 46.2 CCI BR2 Lapua 155 Lapua 2920 fps Very Accurate in 25" 5R bbl, .3 MOA at 300m, 2.800" COAL
Hodgdon Varget 45.2 F210m Lapua 155 Lapua 2830 fps Z. Smith Tactical Match Load in 24" Accuracy Int'l, 2.850" COAL
Hodgdon Benchmark 44.0 F210m Lapua 155 Lapua 2895 fps Jason Baney 100-400m Load
Hodgdon Varget 45.5+ CCI BR2 155 SMK Lapua or Win 2950+ fps Jerry Tierney Palma Load
(Charge varies with lot)
Hodgdon Varget 47.0 CCI BR2 Berger 155 Lapua 2900+ fps John Whidden Palma Load
Alliant Reloader 15 44.0 CCI BR2 Hornady 168 A-Max Lapua 2700 fps Very Accurate, 1/4 moa to 400 yards. 2.875" COAL.
Alliant Reloader 15 42.0 F210m 168 SMK Fed 2600 fps Sierra's Accuracy Load Savage 12VSS
IMR 4064 43.5 F210m 168 SMK Win 2600+ fps Very Accurate in 24" bbl, 2.800" COAL.
Vihtavuori N150 43.5 F210m 168 SMK Win 2640 fps J. Gottfredson's Short-Range Match Load
Alliant Reloader 15 45.0 F210m 175 SMK Win 2750 fps Very Accurate from 24" 5R bbl.
IMR 4895 43.0 Win 175 SMK IMI Match 2753 fps Very Accurate, No Pressure Signs, 2.787" COAL, .018" jump
Hodgdon Varget 43.0 Russian 175 SMK Lapua 2610 fps Brad Sauve F-TR Match Load, .018" Jump
Hodgdon Varget 43.0 CCI BR2 175 SMK IMI Match 2685 fps Very Accurate, under 1/2-MOA, 2.787" COAL, .018" jump, 26" bbl
Hodgdon Varget 44.6 F210m 175 SMK LC na AR10 load for magazine, 2.807" COAL
Ramshot TAC 42.0 CCI BR2 175 SMK IMI Match 2705 fps Very Consistant under 1/2-MOA, 2.800" COAL, .005" jump
Vihtavuori N540 41.0 F210m 175 SMK Fed 2400 fps Sierra's Accuracy Load Savage 12VSS
Alliant Reloader 15 46.0 F210m Hornady 178 A-Max Horn Match na Note: Hornady brass has more capacity than Lapua. 2.845" OAL
IMR 4064 40.5 F210m 190 SMK Fed 2500 fps Sierra's Accuracy Load Savage 12VSS
WARNING: With all loads, ALWAYS START 10% LOW and work up incrementally.
QuickLOAD Projected Velocities in FPS with Increasing Barrel Length
Powder 20" 21" 22" 23" 24" 25" 26" 27" 28" 29" 30" 31" 32"
44.5gr Varget (ADI 2208) 2592 2620 2646 2671 2694 2716 2736 2756 2775 2792 2809 2825 2841
44.5gr IMR 4064 2628 2656 2681 2705 2728 2749 2770 2789 2807 2824 2841 2857 2872
Alliant Powder Reload Recipes
Caliber Bullet Case Minimum OAL
(inches) Bbl Length Primer Powder Charge Weight
(grains) Velocity
(fps) Notes
308 Win. Speer 110 gr HP IMI 2.55 22 CCI 200 Reloder 15
51 3,144 -
308 Win. Speer 125 gr HP IMI 2.615 22 CCI 200 Reloder 15
50 3,062 -
308 Win. Speer 150 gr SP IMI 2.7 22 CCI 200 Reloder 15
49 2,919 -
308 Win. Speer 165 gr SP IMI 2.8 22 CCI 200 Reloder 15
47 2,812 -
308 Win. Speer 168 gr BTHP 2.8 24 CCI 200 Reloder 15
45 2,710 -
308 Win. Speer 180 gr SP IMI 2.8 24 CCI 200 Reloder 15
45 2,613 -
308 Win. Speer 200 gr SP IMI 2.8 22 CCI 200 Reloder 15
42 2,416 -
Cartridge, Caliber 7.62mm Special Ball, Long Range, MK 316 MOD 0 (United States): A 175-grain (11.3 g) round specifically designed for long-range sniping consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers. The Propellant has been verified as IMR 4064 (per NSN 1305-01-567-6944 and Federal Cartridge Company Contract/Order Number N0016408DJN28 and has a charge weight per the specs of 41.745-grain (2.7 g).[19]
Remington 700 Mil-Spec 5R: Bargain buy for a thousand-yard rifle
6/11/13 | by Patrick Stump
To many shooters, the allure of long-range rifle shooting is irresistible. An accurate rifle that can reach out and touch at a thousand yards is an attractive part of any collection. What isn’t so glamorous of long-range shooting is emptying the life savings to afford a rifle capable of it. In the search for a rifle that could shoot well but wouldn’t break the bank, I came across a member of the Remington 700 family, the Mil-Spec 5R stainless steel in .308 Winchester.
The Remington 700 Mil-Spec 5R
The main feature that sets this rifle apart from other Remington rifles is the 5R rifled barrel. This is the same type of rifling used in the standard-issue M24 sniper rifles, which uses five lands and grooves instead of six. The edges of the lands are tapered down to the grooves, which results in a more complete gas seal around the bullet and the five lands and grooves cause less deformation of the bullet, which leads to better accuracy over conventional rifling.
The heavy-profile barrel is 24 inches long and made of stainless steel. Coupled with the 5R rifling is a faster 1 in 11.25-inch twist, allowing heavier bullets to be stabilized reliably.
The stock is made by H-S Precision, and is oversized in the forearm and the grip areas, giving the user a better grip purchase on the rifle. Inside the stock is a standard 5-round integral magazine with a swing-open floor plate. The action features full-length aluminum bedding, increasing shot-to-shot consistency. Remington’s new adjustable X-Mark Pro trigger is featured on the rifle, coming preset at 3.5 pounds with a clean break with absolutely no creep or takeup, and virtually no overtravel. A screw in the trigger allows the user to adjust the weight within a 2-pound range.
In the hands
The Remington 700 Mil-Spec 5R trigger. The adjustable screw is in the top center.
The rifle is both a looker and a feeler. While I have never been one for stainless steel on what is supposed to be a tactical rifle (my intentions were to have the rifle Cerakoted), the combination of black with green-webbed stock and stainless steel action and barrel complements each other well. It also sits well in the users arms from sitting or prone positions. However, the 5R is a little on the heavy side at 8.25 pounds, making it fairly impractical for accurate shooting from anything but a supported position. Even though it is a tad heavy, the rifle is rock solid in every way.
A controversial point of the 5R is the use of the X-Mark Pro trigger system. I generally like the trigger on the rifle. It is as advertised: a very crisp, adjustable trigger. My only problem with it is the adjustment system on the trigger. On the upper portion of the trigger, protruding diagonally out of the action, the adjustment screw is situated in the perfect position to dig into your trigger finger if it is anything but flush, especially if you have larger fingers like me. After several weeks and multiple range trips trying to find a compromise between trigger weight and finger comfort, I hesitantly removed the screw entirely. Surprisingly, the rifle still functions fine. There have been no slam fire issues, the trigger is not too sensitive, and the safety still functions correctly.
What it does best
My first experiences with the Remington 700 5R were disappointing, however, this was no fault of the rifle. After spending $1,100 on the rifle, my wallet was hurting and I tried to get away with an inexpensive scope, a Barska SWAT 10-40×50. It doomed all of my tests with the Remington to absolutely certain failure. The scope absolutely would NOT hold a zero. Despite using sandbags, a bipod, and even a rifle rest (Caldwell Lead Sled), I couldn’t achieve groups at 100 yards any better than 1-2 inches, which was NOT typical of this rifle, based on all of the experiences I had read.
While part of me had hoped that I could get away with using a cost-saving scope, I knew that I was being unrealistic. After a good customer service experience at a sporting good store, I spent a hundred more on a SWFA SuperSniper 20×42 scope, which I had read to be very good quality inexpensive scope. The new investment remedied any accuracy problems that I encountered with the old scope. Despite the fact that I shy away from fixed-power scopes because I am always afraid it will limit the rifle’s usefulness at different ranges, I am happy with the SWFA SS 20x. Its optics are clear and bright, has a very nice mil-dot reticle, and good eye relief.
The 5R surely is a pleasure to shoot. Because of its slightly more massive bulk from the heavy barrel and beefier stock, the already moderately tame .308 cartridge becomes even milder. The stock comes with a nice rubber butt pad also helping to reduce felt recoil. Achieving a good cheek weld isn’t difficult or uncomfortable, but a rubber cheek riser would really allow the user to be completely at rest when looking through a scope.
Food for thought (and your rifle)
While it seems to shoot all cartridges fairly well, the 5R does have a tendency to prefer heavier bullets. A steady diet of Sierra MatchKing 175 grain hollow-point boat-tail keeps my 5R healthy. Most cartridges that I shoot are hand-loads, but I have tried a few factory loads. So far, I have put the following through my Remington: Surplus M2 Ball, Nosler Custom Competition 168 grain HPBT, and dozens of batches of handloads.
The 5R likes handloads the best, and so far I have come up with the following recipe:
• Nosler .308 Brass
• Sierra MatchKing 175 grain HPBT
• Federal Gold Medal Match Primers
• 42.5 grains Hodgdon Varget Powder
• 2.855 inch Cartridge Length
• No crimp
I use the 175 grain long range match bullet over:
44.6 grains of N150
Winchester brass ( full length sized and trimmed to 2.008)
Wolf large Rifle primers
COAL 2.83
Barrel length: 12 twist 24 inch.
I use 2 different powders Varget and IMR 4064. 2 different rounds also 175gr. smk and 168gr. smk. CCI BR-2 primers.
for 175gr smk:
Varget 43 or 44gr.
IMR 4064 43.5 is my money load. Very accurate in my Rem700
for 168gr. smk:
Varget 44.5 or 45gr.
IMR 4064 45gr.
Lapua 155 Scenar
Lapua Case
CCI BR Primer
N150 Powder start at 43.0 grains and work up from there
Load to overal length of 2.82"
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And why I stress ogive for each bullet. :geekdanc:
I also chrono each load for comparison.
The ogive is a point on the bullet so I take it you are seating the bullet to either reduce or increase the bullet's jump from the case into the lands, right?
I use a Stoney Point.
(http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/modcase02.jpg)
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good thing that "your friend" bought you all those "heads" to try at the gun show a few years ago...
:thumbsup:
I have friends ? :wacko:
No, I have cookie lovers
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I have friends ? :wacko:
No, I have cookie lovers
don't forget "crack dip"
:shaka:
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The ogive is a point on the bullet ?
“Ogive” is just a fancy word for the place where the curve of the bullet nose joins the main cylinder diameter of the bullet. (aka beginning of widest part of bullet :crazy:)
That is where the bullet will first engage the rifling when it is shot.
so I take it you are seating the bullet to either reduce or increase the bullet's jump from the case into the lands, right ?
Correct, this jump is called "Freebore"
I use a Stoney Point.
I heard if you send one of your fired cases to Hornady, Hornady will thread it for their OAL gauge. Not sure if Stoney has same size thread.
I use the cut case as shown and take multiple measurement's after chambering.
For the 168 SMK
COAL =2.825
Total length with comparator =3.275
minus comparator 1.15
= BOA (bottom of case to Ogive) 2.125
I stay about 0.010 off, give or take a couple grand. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
p.s.
I did forget about the CD and will try again ! :shake: :shake:
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Is that the comparator and precision micrometer thingy? A buddy let me borrow his.
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I have the Hornady OAL gauge. And works well too.
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Rocky, if you are attempting a Kuleana type quote - please correctly quote me.
I did not ask: The ogive is a point on the bullet ?
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Rocky, if you are attempting a Kuleana type quote - please correctly quote me.
I did not ask: The ogive is a point on the bullet ?
Nah, nag, nag. >:D
Poor copy and paste on my part trying to divide your statement/question into answerable form for all.
We both know the point on the bullet is the "head" tip and has nothing to do with sovereignty. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Is that the comparator and precision micrometer thingy? A buddy let me borrow his.
Yes. Precision micrometer thingy a.k.a. caliper as in "What caliper is your HD firearm ? '' :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
(http://i.imgur.com/6Eocc3d.jpg?1) (https://imgur.com/6Eocc3d)
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Nah, nag, nag. >:D
Poor copy and paste on my part trying to divide your statement/question into answerable form for all.
We both know the point on the bullet is the "head" tip and has nothing to do with sovereignty. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Hey slick, I don't know you nor you know me. I'm not nagging you. When you take things out of context and insert what you said into my quote that isn't accurate.
There is a difference between a micrometer and a caliper. What you have pictured above is a fucking caliper.
http://machinistguides.com/micrometers-vs-calipers/ (http://machinistguides.com/micrometers-vs-calipers/)
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.
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Alright fellas...
-
.
-
:shaka:
:stopjack:
So if you're going down a river at 2 mph
and your canoe loses a wheel,
how much pancake mix do you need
to re-shingle your roof ?
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:shaka:
:stopjack:
So if you're going down a river at 2 mph
and your canoe loses a wheel,
how much pancake mix do you need
to re-shingle your roof ?
How many square feet is the roof? Use your caliper.
??? THIS IS :stopjack: ?
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If your Hornady manual has the load data for the ELD Match 168 gr heads, that would be awesome!
The ELD 168 grainers I imagine must shoot great. I shoot the Hornady match 168 gn bthp version. And it gets first round hits from 500 to 800 plus easy with my rifle. Though, can’t seem to get it to 1k. Ranged one at 1029 to be exact, couldn’t get it. Gonna experiment with 175 gn for that. Anyways here’s some photos I took of my wind meter after ranging before taking the shots. You can see the the range stamp on the meter. And all shots hit with the hornadys after ranging.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/8NVRKY.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pn8NVRKYj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/H0vRO3.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnH0vRO3j)
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How many square feet is the roof? Use your caliper.
??? THIS IS :stopjack: ?
What are some of your fave powder and head combinations?
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The ELD 168 grainers I imagine must shoot great. I shoot the Hornady match 168 gn bthp version. And it gets first round hits from 500 to 800 plus easy with my rifle. Though, can’t seem to get it to 1k. Ranged one at 1029 to be exact, couldn’t get it. Gonna experiment with 175 gn for that. Anyways here’s some photos I took of my wind meter after ranging before taking the shots. You can see the the range stamp on the meter. And all shots hit with the hornadys after ranging.
SNIP
Def looking forward to trying the Hornady ELDs. I've shot a bunch of Hornady .223 Rem over the years and they definitely get good reviews online. On one of the ranges we shoot at, I think the 1000 yard target is something like 1050-1100, but the last time we went out, my buddy's range finder was the 800 yard max model and wasn't picking it up. I didn't shoot much that day, but I was "scaring" it with my Rem 168 gr factory ammo. My buddy hit it with his .308, but very different loads than mine.
I'm eyeing that same Kestrel. Definitely on my buy list. I also spy some other nice gear. :thumbsup:
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Thank you for sharing your load recipes fellas!
Can you add what barrel length and twists that go along with your preferences?
I currently have a 20" 1:10 "heavier" contour. I thought it was pretty heavy profile, but looking at what's currently popular these days, the MTU and M24 contours are heavier than what I have. Not by much though.
My gun is going to be heavy. Not planning on hunting with this particular Rem 700 setup though.
-
Def looking forward to trying the Hornady ELDs. I've shot a bunch of Hornady .223 Rem over the years and they definitely get good reviews online. On one of the ranges we shoot at, I think the 1000 yard target is something like 1050-1100, but the last time we went out, my buddy's range finder was the 800 yard max model and wasn't picking it up. I didn't shoot much that day, but I was "scaring" it with my Rem 168 gr factory ammo. My buddy hit it with his .308, but very different loads than mine.
I'm eyeing that same Kestrel. Definitely on my buy list. I also spy some other nice gear. :thumbsup:
Leica 2800.com range finder link via bt to the Kestrel 5700 elite with AB. Real easy and accurate. After taking environmentals with the Kestrel, link the range finder, range target, and the Kestrel will give the firing solution. Just make sure you have the latest firmware on both tools. And input all your bullet data in the Kestrel for each of your rifles before use. Then should be gtg.
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Leica 2800.com range finder link via bt to the Kestrel 5700 elite with AB. Real easy and accurate. After taking environmentals with the Kestrel, link the range finder, range target, and the Kestrel will give the firing solution. Just make sure you have the latest firmware on both tools. And input all your bullet data in the Kestrel for each of your rifles before use. Then should be gtg.
Yeah, we totally weren't prepare that day. We actually was out for just a weekend camping with "da boys" and just so happened we got to shoot. But that is what reenergized my interest in the Rem 700.
That Leica is what I spied! Damn, you folks are going to cost me $$$ ;D Great information of course and I've already gone way down this rabbit hole. There are times when I am super close to being like "eff it, I'm gonna start getting parts for a new rifle". :o
Appreciated the feedback! I'll hopefully start "rolling my own" in about 1-2 weeks, and then range testing in about a month or so. Can't wait. . . :geekdanc:
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What are some of your fave powder and head combinations?
I have only used Varget and IMR4064 and only at 100 yards. Will there be that much difference between loads at 100 yards? My rifle is a Remington 5R 22" barrel, 11.25 twist with factory HS stock. You haven't touched on it yet but one of my biggest improvements was after switching out the factory trigger for a Triggertech Special.
This is with factory trigger.
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Thank you for sharing your load recipes fellas!
Can you add what barrel length and twists that go along with your preferences?
I currently have a 20" 1:10 "heavier" contour. I thought it was pretty heavy profile, but looking at what's currently popular these days, the MTU and M24 contours are heavier than what I have. Not by much though.
My gun is going to be heavy. Not planning on hunting with this particular Rem 700 setup though.
That’s a fast twist. 1:10, I bet you’ll get great accuracy with 175 or 180 gn. Check with stability calculator for that twist rate. https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi or https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/. For powder, well, whatever you can get your hands on these days. I like using Varget, RL15, TAC, and 8208 which for my reloads work well for 223 and 308. Mainly Varget for 308. But I collected these powders before sheet got crazy. Pretty much anything I could get. And I did do reloads and save data for each of the powders I have now. So if I run out of Varget, then move on to the next powder and check my past log for that powder. Primers, for my 308 I use fed 210.
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I have only used Varget and IMR4064 and only at 100 yards. Will there be that much difference between loads at 100 yards? My rifle is a Remington 5R 22" barrel, 11.25 twist with factory HS stock. You haven't touched on it yet but one of my biggest improvements was after switching out the factory trigger for a Triggertech Special.
This is with factory trigger.
Very nice! That second 45 group looks damn awesome. The initial (left side) 43.5 looked promising too.
That combo sounds similar to my buddy's setup. I know his has the Remington HS stock, but I think 1:12. His gun seems to like the 147-150 gr range heads.
I'll put details in a thread that I'll start on the 700 refresh, but I have a Geissele Super 700 that I bought in their 2019 Black Friday sale. I was looking at the Triggertech Special and Diamond. Which shoe profile did you go with? I wish I could try the pro curved and flat. I have both flat and curved AR triggers and I can't say that I notice a difference, but that's a much different context.
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That’s a fast twist. 1:10, I bet you’ll get great accuracy with 175 or 180 gn. Check with stability calculator for that twist rate. https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi or https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/. For powder, well, whatever you can get your hands on these days. I like using Varget, RL15, TAC, and 8208 which for my reloads work well for 223 and 308. Mainly Varget for 308. But I collected these powders before sheet got crazy. Pretty much anything I could get. And I did do reloads and save data for each of the powders I have now. So if I run out of Varget, then move on to the next powder and check my past log for that powder. Primers, for my 308 I use fed 210.
I mostly have 168 gr factory ammo. I was looking for 175 gr FGMM, but 168 was what was in stock. At least back when I was shooting that gun more, which was like 7-8 years ago. I heard that the 1:10 likes the heavier heads. So far, I have 168 gr heads, but that's mostly because I have 168 gr factory ammo that I have on hand. I have both FGMM and Remington Matchking, which I have had some pretty good results. I'm def open to trying different weights.
Interesting too because my buddy's gun with 1:12 twist, he likes the 150 gr range loads. Now that I'm gearing up to get into it, will have more data points.
Was looking at Berger boolits the other night. I had been interested in them and also mentioned above. They have LOTS of different heads and a lot of good reports online. I was checking out the OTM and Hybrid, but also have read good things about folks shooting the hunter heads, and not just for hunters. So many different stuff to try. Haha
Primers, so far I have Winchester and CCi #200. My buddy has Federal primers.
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If you’re looking for Hornady ELD load data, you should be able to use the AMAX data. The bullets are extremely similar in most specifications. I think the primary difference is that the ELD uses a new material for the polymer tip. Hornady realized that the polymer used in the older AMAX was melting and deforming during supersonic flight, which caused the BC to lower over distance. The Polymer used in the ELD supposedly addresses this problem.
Here’s some data I got from my Ruger Precision Rifle, which uses a 20” barrel:
Hornady 168gr A-Max Match
2580
2569
2552
2565
2580
Average 2569
SD 11
ES 28
I generally found that my best groups were in the 2500-2600 FPS range for 168gr loads. More specifically somewhere around 2550 or a tad above that. Of course your mileage may vary bc you’re using a different gun, but I did notice that a lot of the Remington guys with 20” barrels were also getting good results around that same velocity.
-
If you’re looking for Hornady ELD load data, you should be able to use the AMAX data. The bullets are extremely similar in most specifications. I think the primary difference is that the ELD uses a new material for the polymer tip. Hornady realized that the polymer used in the older AMAX was melting and deforming during supersonic flight, which caused the BC to lower over distance. The Polymer used in the ELD supposedly addresses this problem.
SNIP
I generally found that my best groups were in the 2500-2600 FPS range for 168gr loads. More specifically somewhere around 2550 or a tad above that. Of course your mileage may vary bc you’re using a different gun, but I did notice that a lot of the Remington guys with 20” barrels were also getting good results around that same velocity.
Thanks! I was able to find load data on the ELD. I think that head is last on my list of trials, but definitely looking forward to trying those. Seems like their heads are highly regarded for 6.5 CM, which is next on my interest list.
Will definitely start in the lower range and work up. I have never chrono'ed my barrel, so I don't have a baseline. I've read of many Savage barrels that are "fast barrels" that regularly get to the high range of FPS almost a full grain below the load data.
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I was reading more about 168 SMK and trans-sonic performance, particularly for the 1000 yard range. Interesting that the 175 gr SMK apparently has better performance in that regard. Will try a bunch of different heads eventually, but shooting out to 1000 is definitely in the mix. I recall my buddy having better results at 1000 with his handloads than FGMM 168 gr, and his handloads were in the 150ish gr range. But he also has a different barrel contour and twist. I think he was shooting a 1:12 twist.
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I was reading more about 168 SMK and trans-sonic performance, particularly for the 1000 yard range. Interesting that the 175 gr SMK apparently has better performance in that regard. Will try a bunch of different heads eventually, but shooting out to 1000 is definitely in the mix. I recall my buddy having better results at 1000 with his handloads than FGMM 168 gr, and his handloads were in the 150ish gr range. But he also has a different barrel contour and twist. I think he was shooting a 1:12 twist.
I read the same things. People were saying that the 168gr projectiles would only maintain supersonic out to maybe 800 yards-ish depending on muzzle velocity and environmental conditions. i also know that people were able to maintain supersonic flight out to 1000 yards with 155gr Lapua Scenars, 190gr HPBT match, and other higher BC bullets.
i wish i could get a chance to shoot out to 1000. the farthest i've ever shot was just over 500 yards in a hunt earlier this year. I had to dial 3.6 milrads and held for wind.
just an fyi, but i heard that Nosler's custom competition 168gr is almost identical to the 168gr SMK. i'm not sure what the difference in performance is, but it seems to be a decent trainer (and at a much lower cost).
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I read the same things. People were saying that the 168gr projectiles would only maintain supersonic out to maybe 800 yards-ish depending on muzzle velocity and environmental conditions. i also know that people were able to maintain supersonic flight out to 1000 yards with 155gr Lapua Scenars, 190gr HPBT match, and other higher BC bullets.
i wish i could get a chance to shoot out to 1000. the farthest i've ever shot was just over 500 yards in a hunt earlier this year. I had to dial 3.6 milrads and held for wind.
just an fyi, but i heard that Nosler's custom competition 168gr is almost identical to the 168gr SMK. i'm not sure what the difference in performance is, but it seems to be a decent trainer (and at a much lower cost).
About the Nosler, I read good things. Overall, I just was looking for a variety of heads to try as well as what was in stock. I was thinking of adding Nosler in to the mix, but will run with what I've got. At least for now.
I've shot my current setup with FGMM and Remington MatchKing with 168 gr and 175 gr. Mostly at 100 yards for groups and when KHSC used to have steel. Have had chances to shoot it again recently in the 300 -1000+ distances in the last couple of months, so super excited about that. Just wish there were more opportunities for that.
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Man this stuff is addicting. . .
Picked up another can of Varget. Since limit one per person, I stopped by when I was in the area for something else. Checked and the jars appeared to be from the same batch. I don't particularly care at this point, but something I did notice.
Not sure yet, but thinking I'll start with Varget first. Then likely 4064. Both with SMK 168 gr to compare with some FGMM I have on hand.
Ordered the Lyman manual as well. Should arrive end of the week, which is good timing.
I'm using my buddy's reloading equipment and shop, so helping him by supplementing with some other equipment. Stuff like gauges that he didn't use or upgraded ones. I also have a couple of powders that he's been wanting to try with his recipes, so will have lots to test.
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Aloha drck1000
Saw in your post you plan to use fgmm brass. That brass is soft Send me a pm with your shipping info ill send you some lapua brass brother 🤙
Aloha
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Aloha drck1000
Saw in your post you plan to use fgmm brass. That brass is soft Send me a pm with your shipping info ill send you some lapua brass brother 🤙
Aloha
That’s a VERY nice offer!!!
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This $hit is getting serious now... I haven’t done this amount of studying since my licensing exam.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201128/1c1c3e4f33855163c1fa28b4a3c361f6.jpg)
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This $hit is getting serious now... I haven’t done this amount of studying since my licensing exam.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201128/1c1c3e4f33855163c1fa28b4a3c361f6.jpg)
HEADS
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Getting ready to start loading up my first batches of .308. Thank you to some VERY helpful and generous forum members! Greatly appreciated!
What is your preferred method of working up a load for a new gun?
Do you start with the min loading and then go up in increments? If increments, what increments do you use for the initial round of testing?
Like anything, there seem to be many preferred methods. Also depending on intended end result. One shooting buddy is doing this mainly for hunting, whereas another is going for a more pure precision application. I was doing a lot of online research (forums and videos). The methods run the range from starting at min published data from either the buller or powder mfr and going 0.2 gr increments, where they chrono the loads (not really watching the groups) and then target areas where the SD are lower over a charge range. I've seen some target say 2700 fps, but start maybe 1.0 gr below that target FPS in the published data. Then others who start at the min and go up in 0.5-0.6 increments and then try to find a range to to further testing in smaller increments.
All very interesting. Also of course dependent on range availability and amount of time one can spend at the range. This one YouTuber does the min to max in 0.2 gr increments in one day on the range.
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good read: https://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/07/13/creighton-audette-ladder-testing/ (https://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/07/13/creighton-audette-ladder-testing/)
I refer to manufacturers data and start at 10% BELOW their charges and work my way up. being careful in watching for pressure signs etc. paying attention to groups if they open up or tighten
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good read: https://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/07/13/creighton-audette-ladder-testing/ (https://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/07/13/creighton-audette-ladder-testing/)
I refer to manufacturers data and start at 10% BELOW their charges and work my way up. being careful in watching for pressure signs etc. paying attention to groups if they open up or tighten
That ladder test was what I was referring to. I've been reading a lot of that site's blogs and will be sure to look that one up.
I have a chrono inbound, so that will help with my testing, as well as one of my buddies. The pressure signs was another that I was looking up more as well.
How many test loads do you typically plan to run in any given range session?
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I started out chrono-ing a factory load same weight as my reloads (i.e. 168 gr SMK) to get a base line fps and zero then shot and chrono'd 5 reloads all with recipe #1 (Case, primer, powder and bullet, OACL and BTO), then repeat with recipe (#2) having 2gr increase of same powder and so forth.
Then repeat with another powder.
Of course, you want to let the barrel cool off a bit between shots.
Different powders may/will have different fps with same amount of grain even if all else is same (Case, primer, and bullet, OACL and BTO).
Just looking for grouping and the recipe's with the best grouping USUALLY had the same fps, even with different powders.
Our "Sweet Spot" on the 24" 5-R 11.25 twist was 2470 fps avg for 100-400 yds and started "loosening up" at 2570+
Research I've found shows the same round in a 1.10 twist preferred 2700fps.
Enjoy ! :wave:
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I started out chrono-ing a factory load same weight as my reloads (i.e. 168 gr SMK) to get a base line fps and zero then shot and chrono'd 5 reloads all with recipe #1 (Case, primer, powder and bullet, OACL and BTO), then repeat with recipe (#2) having 2gr increase of same powder and so forth.
Then repeat with another powder.
Of course, you want to let the barrel cool off a bit between shots.
Different powders may/will have different fps with same amount of grain even if all else is same (Case, primer, and bullet, OACL and BTO).
Just looking for grouping and the recipe's with the best grouping USUALLY had the same fps, even with different powders.
Our "Sweet Spot" on the 24" 5-R 11.25 twist was 2470 fps avg for 100-400 yds and started "loosening up" at 2570+
Research I've found shows the same round in a 1.10 twist preferred 2700fps.
Enjoy ! :wave:
Did you mean 0.2 gr? or 2.0 gr?
For now (could change), plan is to start with 168 gr SMK and either Varget or 4064. Likely Varget though. I have a bunch of CCi LRP, so will likely start with that. I bought a bunch of different boolits and powder, and had that stash supplemented by some friends, so lots of choices. I want to start off with less variables and see how it goes, but I envision wanting to try other powders and boolits soon after.
I read about some folks having quite a bit of variation in velocities with different primers, so am planning on playing it safe.
Overall, I envision range time being key on how I game plan load development and testing. I envision shooting three (5) round groups comfortably in each relay. Will have to see what my attention span is for shooting these days, but I envision shooting around 4 relays, but as much as say 6 relays. In the past, 40 rounds with my Rem 700 was a full day on the range and expect about that.
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Did you mean 0.2 gr? or 2.0 gr?
For now (could change), plan is to start with 168 gr SMK and either Varget or 4064. Likely Varget though. I have a bunch of CCi LRP, so will likely start with that. I bought a bunch of different boolits and powder, and had that stash supplemented by some friends, so lots of choices. I want to start off with less variables and see how it goes, but I envision wanting to try other powders and boolits soon after.
I read about some folks having quite a bit of variation in velocities with different primers, so am planning on playing it safe.
Overall, I envision range time being key on how I game plan load development and testing. I envision shooting three (5) round groups comfortably in each relay. Will have to see what my attention span is for shooting these days, but I envision shooting around 4 relays, but as much as say 6 relays. In the past, 40 rounds with my Rem 700 was a full day on the range and expect about that.
rocky no focus
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Did you mean 0.2 gr? or 2.0 gr?
0.2 gr
"loosening up" at 2570+ , =
2642 fps was 1" off
2800 2" off
rocky no focus
My missing a period is not as bad as her missing a period. :shake: :shake:
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0.2 gr
My missing a period is not as bad as her missing a period. :shake: :shake:
heads
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I haven’t done any work up load development in a while, but I recall that the Scott Satterlee method seemed to work well for me.
I was actually doing something similar to the OCW (optimal charge weight) method, but I also kept the chrono data. When I graphed out the data, it seemed to follow the same idea as Satterlee’s method, which led me to believe that he’s actually onto something.
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0.2 gr
"loosening up" at 2570+ , =
2642 fps was 1" off
2800 2" offMy missing a period is not as bad as her missing a period. :shake: :shake:
Two point zero vs zero point two
Tomayto vs Tomahto
:o
:rofl:
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I haven’t done any work up load development in a while, but I recall that the Scott Satterlee method seemed to work well for me.
I was actually doing something similar to the OCW (optimal charge weight) method, but I also kept the chrono data. When I graphed out the data, it seemed to follow the same idea as Satterlee’s method, which led me to believe that he’s actually onto something.
On average, how many test loads did you shoot in any given range day? Number in your test groups? 3 or 5? Other?
Two of my buddies who I will be testing with, one is the 3 round group "good nuff" and the other is "I need 5 round groups". I'll eventually decide on my own method, as well as I am sure it will change, but interesting on what other people's methods are and reasonings why they follow that method.
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On average, how many test loads did you shoot in any given range day? Number in your test groups? 3 or 5? Other?
Two of my buddies who I will be testing with, one is the 3 round group "good nuff" and the other is "I need 5 round groups". I'll eventually decide on my own method, as well as I am sure it will change, but interesting on what other people's methods are and reasonings why they follow that method.
The OCW method calls for multiple 3 round groups.
To do a proper ladder test, I think you would need at least 200 yards.
The Satterlee method could probably be done in 10 rounds.
If you’re new to reloading, it may take you some time before you can reliably count on your loads. All of the load development methods require that you start with extremely consistent components. This means that you better be dead on when you’re measuring powder. Some take it as far as measuring and weighing each piece of brass to ensure that there is consistent case dimensions and volume. Others will weigh and sort each projectile. Also, primers may become a factor if you’re chasing the ragged edge of your gun’s potential. This is why some people only shoot match primers. On the other hand, some people don’t think that any of these things matter (or the effects of the variations are marginal and immaterial).
In the end, you could really go down a rabbit hole when it comes to reloading for extreme accuracy.
Also keep in mind that there is also the shooter error that plays a factor. If you’re only capable of consistently shooting 1/2 inch groups, then how reliable is your data when you’re comparing group sizes? If you’re only capable of holding a 1 inch group, then is it worth the time to find a sub MOA load? Also a 10 mph full value wind will shift a 308 approximately 3/4 inch at 100 yards. Will that be enough to skew your data if you’re trying to read groups?
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The OCW method calls for multiple 3 round groups.
To do a proper ladder test, I think you would need at least 200 yards.
The Satterlee method could probably be done in 10 rounds.
If you’re new to reloading, it may take you some time before you can reliably count on your loads. All of the load development methods require that you start with extremely consistent components. This means that you better be dead on when you’re measuring powder. Some take it as far as measuring and weighing each piece of brass to ensure that there is consistent case dimensions and volume. Others will weigh and sort each projectile. Also, primers may become a factor if you’re chasing the ragged edge of your gun’s potential. This is why some people only shoot match primers. On the other hand, some people don’t think that any of these things matter (or the effects of the variations are marginal and immaterial).
In the end, you could really go down a rabbit hole when it comes to reloading for extreme accuracy.
Also keep in mind that there is also the shooter error that plays a factor. If you’re only capable of consistently shooting 1/2 inch groups, then how reliable is your data when you’re comparing group sizes? If you’re only capable of holding a 1 inch group, then is it worth the time to find a sub MOA load? Also a 10 mph full value wind will shift a 308 approximately 3/4 inch at 100 yards. Will that be enough to skew your data if you’re trying to read groups?
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Thanks for the info on the methods. I was more looking for people's personal preference or practice.
New to reloading, but have guidance of many long time reloaders. Will also be using their workshops, so will have "eyes on" the majority of the time, especially to start.
Powder measure? Speaking of rabbit hole, not that far. Was talking with one of my buddies and we're not going to that uber accurate scale. I am picking up some equipment to supplement one buddy's workshop and it's not that uber accurate level (and cost). Same with other equipment, at least for now. While most are "good stuff", not the uber accurate stuff. That said, neither of us are after that gnats ass accuracy. At least not at this time. I don't think I will, but who knows. I do know and shot with benchrest folks and what they consider as "minimally competitive", I'm like that's pretty darn good.
Primers is another. While I was able to find a brick locally, selection was pretty much whatever is available. And I'm good with that.
Understood on shooter capability. With my stock Rem 700 and Hogue stock and Remington factory ammo, I was able to shoot that setup easily in the sub 1.0 moa average. Group sizes was smaller with FGMM. I'd have to check my notes. Then again, while I'm not really after benchrest standards, always good to push things and see what is the "best I can get". At least with the components I have on hand.
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Thanks for the info on the methods. I was more looking for people's personal preference or practice.
New to reloading, but have guidance of many long time reloaders. Will also be using their workshops, so will have "eyes on" the majority of the time, especially to start.
Powder measure? Speaking of rabbit hole, not that far. Was talking with one of my buddies and we're not going to that uber accurate scale. I am picking up some equipment to supplement one buddy's workshop and it's not that uber accurate level (and cost). Same with other equipment, at least for now. While most are "good stuff", not the uber accurate stuff. That said, neither of us are after that gnats ass accuracy. At least not at this time. I don't think I will, but who knows. I do know and shot with benchrest folks and what they consider as "minimally competitive", I'm like that's pretty darn good.
Primers is another. While I was able to find a brick locally, selection was pretty much whatever is available. And I'm good with that.
Understood on shooter capability. With my stock Rem 700 and Hogue stock and Remington factory ammo, I was able to shoot that setup easily in the sub 1.0 moa average. Group sizes was smaller with FGMM. I'd have to check my notes. Then again, while I'm not really after benchrest standards, always good to push things and see what is the "best I can get". At least with the components I have on hand.
If that’s the case, I recommend chronographing the FGMM through your gun and simply replicating that load. If you need more accuracy, then make minor tweaks to that, but the FGMM should be your baseline
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SNIP
I've shot FGMM quite a bit with my current setup and idea is to start along those lines. Likely start with Varget and 4064 first.
Another powder from those listed above that I'm interested in is RL15.
Will eventually get into loading for .223 Rem, but that's a story for another day. . .
If that’s the case, I recommend chronographing the FGMM through your gun and simply replicating that load. If you need more accuracy, then make minor tweaks to that, but the FGMM should be your baseline
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Roger dodger
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Heard this was the "remake" of FGMM
Case: Federal GMM .308 fire formed and match prepped
Primer: Federal 210-GMM
Bullet: 168 grain SMK
Powder: 43.2 grains (?) or 43.5 grains (?) of IMR-4064
COL: 2.800"
46 grains of Varget and seated the 168 grain Match King to an overall length of 2.800". into Lapua was the other recipe.
But as mentioned< I get similar results with 42 (.0000) g IMR4064.
Could be due to barrel length/twist
"a 10 mph full value wind will shift a 308 approximately 3/4 inch at 100 yards"
That's why I chrono to see wind effects an weight and speed and aim consistently for the same spot.
If the 10mph wind is consistent, you'll still group, just 3/4" off. (see previous images I posted with TAC, perfect example).
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Heard this was the "remake" of FGMM
Case: Federal GMM .308 fire formed and match prepped
Primer: Federal 210-GMM
Bullet: 168 grain SMK
Powder: 43.2 grains (?) or 43.5 grains (?) of IMR-4064
COL: 2.800"
46 grains of Varget and seated the 168 grain Match King to an overall length of 2.800". into Lapua was the other recipe.
But as mentioned< I get similar results with 42 (.0000) g IMR4064.
Could be due to barrel length/twist
SNIP
I'll have to check my notes from researching, but the 4064 combo was what I found the most. I have all of the components (Lapua and FGMM brass, and Varget and 4064 powders) for all listed above except for the primers. I have CCi and Winchester primers. I have a bunch of CCi primers, so have plenty to test and refine.
I plan on starting to load up some ammo while my rifle is still in the shop. I bought the Hornady OAL gauge and comparator to eventually play around with that, but that's quite a bit down the road.
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46 grains of Varget and seated the 168 grain Match King to an overall length of 2.800". into Lapua was the other recipe.
I don’t know about that number. 46 grains of Varget will be a pretty hot load under a 168 SMK.
I definitely would not want to go too close to 46 grains if possible unless you have some kind of special brass with a large internal volume.
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I don’t know about that number. 46 grains of Varget will be a pretty hot load under a 168 SMK.
I definitely would not want to go too close to 46 grains if possible unless you have some kind of special brass with a large internal volume.
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I concur.
Just reporting on personnel research.
I would think that Lapua could be considered that "special brass" BUT
Hogden sez :
Hodgdon
Varget 0.308"
2.800"
41.0 gr
2,514 vel
46,100 PSI pressure
45.0C
2,737 vel
60,000 PSI pressure
As mentioned,, 39.4 of TAC gave nice results.
I'm gonna do up a batch of those again
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I concur.
Just reporting on personnel research.
I would think that Lapua could be considered that "special brass" BUT
Hogden sez :
Hodgdon
Varget 0.308"
2.800"
41.0 gr
2,514 vel
46,100 PSI pressure
45.0C
2,737 vel
60,000 PSI pressure
As mentioned,, 39.4 of TAC gave nice results.
I'm gonna do up a batch of those again
The manuals I have all have the max load for Varget in the 45ish range. I don't have my notes or manuals nearby right now, but I think the starting loads were in the 40ish range.
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I can pick up more 8208. Is 8208 anyone's favorite?
I have one jar of 8208, and one of my buddies has 8208 as the "leader in clubhouse" favorite. I haven't started testing yet, but Varget and 4064 are tops on my list. I've read a lot of good things about 8208 for .308, but seems like a lot of focus on that powder for the 6, 6.5, and 7 mm rounds.
I'm down to try whatevers. Just looking for opinions from experience.
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I can pick up more 8208. Is 8208 anyone's favorite?
I have one jar of 8208, and one of my buddies has 8208 as the "leader in clubhouse" favorite. I haven't started testing yet, but Varget and 4064 are tops on my list. I've read a lot of good things about 8208 for .308, but seems like a lot of focus on that powder for the 6, 6.5, and 7 mm rounds.
I'm down to try whatevers. Just looking for opinions from experience.
I never tried it yet but it sounds good. An extruded, short powder that is temp stable. Supposedly flows well through PMs.
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I never tried it yet but it sounds good. An extruded, short powder that is temp stable. Supposedly flows well through PMs.
I was leaning on buying a couple more jars anyways. . . ;D
I have a Chargemaster 1500 incoming, so hopefully that will help.
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I sometimes load with 8208 XBR. If I remember correctly, I got very few cut kernels in a powder throw.
At the time, it was one of the few 308/223 suitable powders I could find.
I also load with Varget, Reloder 15 (when I can find it for a decent price), and Ramshot TAC (bc it’s cheap). I probably would load with CFE 223 if I could find a decent price on a keg.
In general, I’m a big fan of extruded powders for 308 precision loads. They tend to be less sensitive to minor variances in charge weight.
One thing I wish I had when I was first starting to reload for rifle is one of those digital auto tricklers. I have a Hornady one now and I can’t imagine ever going back. It’s worth the money especially if you’re doing load development.
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I never tried it yet but it sounds good. An extruded, short powder that is temp stable. Supposedly flows well through PMs.
I've done about 10 rnds with 8208 XBR, but not enough to have an opinion yet.
WLYK
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201205/61beb2655bbac39a9c02be17baf73d16.jpg)
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https://youtu.be/tXU9oSX0qAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMEi5eHTLxQ&t=264s
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201205/61beb2655bbac39a9c02be17baf73d16.jpg)
heads
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heads
manual for dealing with heads
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Another neat trick I learned is coloring the "heads" with sharpie magic marker, a different color for each recipe.
When shot onto white paper( and even some targets) it will leave a ring of color in the hole on the target.
Now I place a piece of whitepaper with several scattered splatter dots for a center (focus) and can shoot a bunch of reloads and know which rounds are what ! :geekdanc:
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If you are going to neck size only try the Lee Collet die and measure the concentricity before and after. Setup correctly you'd be surprised how little to no run out you get on the case neck.
Concentricity is another rabbit hole that you may to choose to jump into.
At what point or range does concentricity affect accuracy? How much runout is acceptable for a certain distance?
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If you are going to neck size only try the Lee Collet die and measure the concentricity before and after. Setup correctly you'd be surprised how little to no run out you get on the case neck.
Concentricity is another rabbit hole that you may to choose to jump into.
At what point or range does concentricity affect accuracy? How much runout is acceptable for a certain distance?
Full length sizing, at least what my buddy has.
Don’t need any more rabbit holes. Haha
Was chatting with a couple of guys who are really into precision rifle. The “I need to be .25 MOA to be competitive” types. Quite interesting stuff. The flex of different actions, different lug patterns, etc. I’m not chasing the “almost same hole” at 100 yards stuff.
My goal is more consistency at ringing steel in the 600-1000 yard range. 600 was “ok easy” with the stock gun setup. But that was a 12” diameter plate.
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Thanks for the PMs. To clarify, I eventually plan on supplementing my buddy’s reloading setup. I’ve already added some sizing gauges and Chargemaster. Plan is to eventually go with neck sizing equipment, including prob a Redding or RCBS turret press. But starting with what he has first.
He reloads for “good enough for him”, which isn’t uber accuracy. He’s aware of the rabbit holes, but too pake to invest more. But, now that I’m getting into it and supplementing, he’s showing more interest.
I considered starting a rifle build from action and barrel up. But not yet...
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Thanks for the PMs. To clarify, I eventually plan on supplementing my buddy’s reloading setup. I’ve already added some sizing gauges and Chargemaster. Plan is to eventually go with neck sizing equipment, including prob a Redding or RCBS turret press. But starting with what he has first.
He reloads for “good enough for him”, which isn’t uber accuracy. He’s aware of the rabbit holes, but too pake to invest more. But, now that I’m getting into it and supplementing, he’s showing more interest.
I considered starting a rifle build from action and barrel up. But not yet...
focus
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:shaka: :shaka: :shaka: :shaka: :shaka: :shaka:
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First "real" steps down the rabbit hole of reloading started. Loaded up my first two sets of test ammo. Also did some brass prep for a future batch.
First two test batches are 4064 and Varget with 175 gr SMK and CCi No. 200 primers. My bolt gun is still in the shop, so will likely load up another test batch. Probably 8208 and the Shooters World. I'll start with some factory FGMM once I get my gun back and get the new scope and mount setup with a zero. Then it's off and running on testing. Here. . . we. . . go. . .
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I can pick up more 8208. Is 8208 anyone's favorite?
I have one jar of 8208, and one of my buddies has 8208 as the "leader in clubhouse" favorite. I haven't started testing yet, but Varget and 4064 are tops on my list. I've read a lot of good things about 8208 for .308, but seems like a lot of focus on that powder for the 6, 6.5, and 7 mm rounds.
I'm down to try whatevers. Just looking for opinions from experience.
I like 8208, I have 5 jars of those. 4064 for some reason drops my velocity. Good thing I had only one jar of that to try. After that, used the whole jug for plinking rounds for my Tavor. lol.. Benchmark would gives me the most velocity. BLC2 too. And TAC. I’m currently using TAC for 175 pills. Seems to do good. My most used powder are Varget and RL15. But I use whatever. I have data for my guns for Benchmark, BLC2, CFE223, TAC, N140, 8208, Varget, and RL15. All shoot good.
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I like 8208, I have 5 jars of those. 4064 for some reason drops my velocity. Good thing I had only one jar of that to try. After that, used the whole jug for plinking rounds for my Tavor. lol.. Benchmark would gives me the most velocity. BLC2 too. And TAC. I’m currently using TAC for 175 pills. Seems to do good. My most used powder are Varget and RL15. But I use whatever. I have data for my guns for Benchmark, BLC2, CFE223, TAC, N140, 8208, Varget, and RL15. All shoot good.
I ended up picking up (Edit 6 jars) of the 8208. 3 for me and three for my buddy. I think that will be next on the list to make test loads. My buddy has RL15 and said I can sample. I haven't been able to find RL15 or CFE223 in stock locally. But the powders I do have on hand I think will keep me busy for a while. I like that some of the powders I have seem to be good for .223, but I don't plan on loading for .223 any time soon. The backup is to use the powders that don't make the cut for .308 is 30-06. I have both a 1903 and M1 Garand that can use the same powders and boolits.
The 4064 didn't work that well for my buddy as well, but he is shooting a much different barrel length and twist. He also started with the 150ish gr bullets, but has since gone to the heavier gr heads.
Hear a LOT of good things about Varget and I was able to find some in stock locally. Seems like that is the common criticism of Varget, that it's hard to find in stock.
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I ended up picking up 8 jars of the 8208. 3 for me and three for my buddy. I think that will be next on the list to make test loads. My buddy has RL15 and said I can sample. I haven't been able to find RL15 or CFE223 in stock locally. But the powders I do have on hand I think will keep me busy for a while. I like that some of the powders I have seem to be good for .223, but I don't plan on loading for .223 any time soon. The backup is to use the powders that don't make the cut for .308 is 30-06. I have both a 1903 and M1 Garand that can use the same powders and boolits.
The 4064 didn't work that well for my buddy as well, but he is shooting a much different barrel length and twist. He also started with the 150ish gr bullets, but has since gone to the heavier gr heads.
Hear a LOT of good things about Varget and I was able to find some in stock locally. Seems like that is the common criticism of Varget, that it's hard to find in stock.
I seen CFE in stock at SEC. But that was last week. Should have picked up some when I was there. Only went there to pick up 2 bricks of large primers. I think I get enough powder right now. Its my small rifle primers that I’m low. Currently only have 3 full bricks. And 7 left in a open brick. Guess that’s 3700 small primers total. Large primers I have 7 full bricks. So that enough for now.
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I seen CFE in stock at SEC. But that was last week. Should have picked up some when I was there. Only went there to pick up 2 bricks of large primers. I think I get enough powder right now. Its my small rifle primers that I’m low. Currently only have 3 full bricks. And 7 left in a open brick. Guess that’s 3700 small primers total. Large primers I have 7 full bricks. So that enough for now.
Yeah, I recall seeing CFE223 at SEC last time I went too. I think I have a good amount of powder. I bought a variety since I wasn't sure how the run on gun stuff would impact, but seems like powder has been ok to find. At least at SEC and WGS.
I saw that the Sierra manual has TAC as the accurate load. Might have to try TEC eventually.
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I had a lot of TAC (until I used it all). It’s a great powder that measures very well through powder throws due to it being a ball powder.
I would certainly buy more of it if I could get my hands on cheap kegs. It’s a great plinking powder, but I usually use extruded powders for accuracy loads. Your mileage may vary