Post by: drck1000 on November 20, 2020, 08:22:38 AM
They both should shut the hell up. Yeah, Green like totally needed to make the trip to DC to get that information in person. . . dude (did that on purpose)
Now the media is portraying him as some hero for all of this.
Don't even get me started on the State's (mis)management of the CARES act funds. .
Post by: macsak on November 20, 2020, 08:33:10 AM
No worries, our "great" LtGov Josh Green made the journey to DC recently to get info on vaccine trials and effectiveness. He said it's 95% effective in trials and that "he" has 100 people working on plans for when the vaccine becomes available for Hawaii. No listen to Mayor Caldwell's "personal attacks".
They both should shut the hell up. Yeah, Green like totally needed to make the trip to DC to get that information in person. . . dude (did that on purpose)
Now the media is portraying him as some hero for all of this.
Don't even get me started on the State's (mis)management of the CARES act funds. .
but the tissue that was used to grow the mRNA was derived from an aborted fetus!
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 20, 2020, 08:33:33 AM
The Pfizer one needs to be held at -103 degrees. The Medera one no.
Post by: drck1000 on November 20, 2020, 08:44:04 AM
He is getting his ducks in a line for votes.For realz? No way!!!
The Pfizer one needs to be held at -103 degrees. The Medera one no.
:rofl:
Yeah. They going have to buy Yeti coolers. . . ;D
Post by: hvybarrels on November 20, 2020, 10:11:11 AM
Post by: punaperson on November 20, 2020, 10:36:47 AM
Oh, and fuck them and all their fucking "THE VIRUS!!!" bullshit.
Will idiot Ige and his consulting morons go full Denmark?
"The Danish parliament was subject to 9 days of protests right outside its doors, in opposition to the proposed “vaccination law”, which would allow the police to “physically coerce vaccination through detainment”."
Anti-Lockdown Protests All Across Europe
https://off-guardian.org/2020/11/19/anti-lockdown-protests-all-across-europe/
(https://i.imgur.com/Xb3l3zJ.png)
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 20, 2020, 12:18:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYsmk8OWP2M&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2IOxDsC9gwIDT-GCYJdThKzzcMmNkqdEB5ftpV9PiS9kY7h7nhhf6QgsM
German police doing german things.
Post by: omnigun on November 20, 2020, 01:02:20 PM
Any wagers on what forms of "encouragement" the government will create to "persuade" people to get vaccinated?
Oh, and fuck them and all their fucking "THE VIRUS!!!" bullshit.
Will idiot Ige and his consulting morons go full Denmark?
"The Danish parliament was subject to 9 days of protests right outside its doors, in opposition to the proposed “vaccination law”, which would allow the police to “physically coerce vaccination through detainment”."
Anti-Lockdown Protests All Across Europe
https://off-guardian.org/2020/11/19/anti-lockdown-protests-all-across-europe/
(https://i.imgur.com/Xb3l3zJ.png)
Are you anti vaxx?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 20, 2020, 01:08:36 PM
Are you anti vaxx?
Can't someone use plain old common sense? Why must every issue for you be viewed as evidence that someone has a specific belief system?
Some of us simply weigh the facts and judge the issue on its merits without considering what "camp" that puts us in.
And you call yourself "independent?" Please!
Post by: omnigun on November 20, 2020, 01:26:41 PM
Can't someone use plain old common sense? Why must every issue for you be viewed as evidence that someone has a specific belief system?
Some of us simply weigh the facts and judge the issue on its merits without considering what "camp" that puts us in.
And you call yourself "independent?" Please!
What? I am just curious as it would explain some things. Last time i checked pro or anti vaxx is not a political position.
Post by: punaperson on November 20, 2020, 01:35:24 PM
Are you anti vaxx?
What? I am just curious as it would explain some things. Last time i checked pro or anti vaxx is not a political position.Before I answer your first question, please tell us what "some things" that answer "would explain"? And how. As much detail as possible of your assumptions, premises, sources and arguments used to reach your conclusions.
Post by: macsak on November 20, 2020, 01:57:11 PM
What? I am just curious as it would explain some things. Last time i checked pro or anti vaxx is not a political position.
or you could just let it go without derailing another thread...
Post by: omnigun on November 20, 2020, 02:07:27 PM
Before I answer your first question, please tell us what "some things" that answer "would explain"? And how. As much detail as possible of your assumptions, premises, sources and arguments used to reach your conclusions.
As mac requested I'll just drop this topic as its slightly off topic.
Post by: punaperson on November 20, 2020, 02:28:40 PM
As mac requested I'll just drop this topic as its slightly off topic.Sure. I understand. You would never want to make a slightly off-topic post.
Send me a PM and explain yourself.
What are "some things" that "would [be] explain[ed]" by a yes answer ("anti-vax"), and what "would [be] explain[ed]" by a no answer ("pro-vax"?).
Post by: drck1000 on November 20, 2020, 02:29:51 PM
Sure. I understand. You would never want to make a slightly off-topic post.I started this thread mostly to bash Green. So I say have at it. This one ought to be interesting. . .
Send me a PM and explain yourself.
What are "some things" that "would [be] explain[ed]" by a yes answer, and what "would [be] explain[ed]" by a no answer.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 20, 2020, 02:53:52 PM
What? I am just curious as it would explain some things. Last time i checked pro or anti vaxx is not a political position.
Did ANYONE say that it IS?
You need to change your information filter. It seems to be clogged with your own bullshit and keeps changing what people said to what you think they said.
Post by: omnigun on November 20, 2020, 03:04:25 PM
Sure. I understand. You would never want to make a slightly off-topic post.
Send me a PM and explain yourself.
What are "some things" that "would [be] explain[ed]" by a yes answer, and what "would [be] explain[ed]" by a no answer.
Topic poster Ok'ed it so, its all green :geekdanc:
Hmm, I would say if perhaps you were anti vaxx would explain your pessimistic views on covid and requirements to vaccinate to attend school etc. If we went full tinfoil mode and my personal opinion, not assuming this is you, but anti-vaxxers are anti-science, or believe in fake science. In my opinion they are pretty stupid for their beliefs.
If you were not anti vaxx I would question why would be against the mass vaccination of people if found to be safe. We cured small pox and limited many viruses with vaccines safely. Now I don't keep track of everyone's exact opinion but if I recall correctly you are on team covid is more like the flu than a horrible disease. You being pro vaccinations would cause a little more confusion on that part. As the science consensus is Covid is far worse than the flu and vaccines work. Now if you believe in that why would not be pro vaccines.
TLDR if you were anti vaxx it would explain some of your viewpoints.
Post by: omnigun on November 20, 2020, 03:08:15 PM
Did ANYONE say that it IS?
You need to change your information filter. It seems to be clogged with your own bullshit and keeps changing what people said to what you think they said.
Can't someone use plain old common sense? Why must every issue for you be viewed as evidence that someone has a specific belief system?
Some of us simply weigh the facts and judge the issue on its merits without considering what "camp" that puts us in.
And you call yourself "independent?" Please!
Anti Vaxx is a mindset and opinion not a camp. I was trying to say I was NOT putting people in "political camps". But a specific mindset/opinion. Clearly it went over your head. 100% independent favorable viewpoint.
Post by: punaperson on November 20, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
Topic poster Ok'ed it so, its all green :geekdanc:"Pessimistic"? You are demonstrating your unintelligence again. That word makes no sense in the context you use it... what's a "pessimistic view on covid"? What's a "pessimistic view [of]requirements to vaccinate to attend school etc"?
Hmm, I would say if perhaps you were anti vaxx would explain your pessimistic views on covid and requirements to vaccinate to attend school etc. If we went full tinfoil mode and my personal opinion, not assuming this is you, but anti-vaxxers are anti-science, or believe in fake science. In my opinion they are pretty stupid for their beliefs.
If you were not anti vaxx I would question why would be against the mass vaccination of people if found to be safe. We cured small pox and limited many viruses with vaccines safely. Now I don't keep track of everyone's exact opinion but if I recall correctly you are on team covid is more like the flu than a horrible disease. You being pro vaccinations would cause a little more confusion on that part. As the science consensus is Covid is far worse than the flu and vaccines work. Now if you believe in that why would not be pro vaccines.
TLDR if you were anti vaxx it would explain some of your viewpoints.
Plus, I've never once made any comment at all, directly or indirectly, about "requirements to vaccinate to attend school etc.", so your attribution of that position to me is 100% false, even if using "pessimistic" to modify it made sense.
Are you claiming you've read all the literature on vaccination and that anyone else who has read all the literature and concludes that the risks of vaccination are not something they want to subject themselves and/or their children to are uninformed or misinformed? Because you say so? Just like you do about anyone who disagrees with you about anything at all (e.g. "anthropogenic climate change", etc.)? If vaccinations are so safe, why has the federal government passed a law protecting all vaccine manufacturers from personal liability lawsuits? If vaccine injury is "fake science" and believing in vaccine injury is "anti-science", why has the federal government, through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, paid out over $4 BILLION in personal injury claims since 1988? You think the federal government paid $4 BILLION just to appease some "fake science" and "anti-science" wingnuts who were making non-credible claims of injury? If so, as you put it, you "are pretty stupid for [your] beliefs". Can't wait to hear your rational explanation for that.
When did I ever claim that I was "against mass vaccination"? I didn't. Your making stuff up again. Nothing new there. "We cured small pox and limited many viruses with vaccines safely." Again, if vaccinations are "safe", why has the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, paid out over $4 BILLION in personal injury claims since 1988? They didn't pay that out because vaccines are "safe". They paid that out because there have been $4 BILLION in injuries that were provably due to vaccinations. You don't just walk up to a window in government building and say "I was injured by a vaccine" and they immediately write you a big check on the spot. You have to make a credible case, and obviously, many people have made such cases: they were injured by vaccines. So your use of "safely" is false.
"[T]he science consensus is Covid is far worse than the flu". That's not true. It's worse than some flus (plus, there is extremely strong evidence that the death numbers attributed to Covid-19 are grossly inflated), especially for people over 70 and/or people with multiple comorbidities. For the vast majority of people under 60, the chance of fatality is almost zero. The "casedemic" is meaningless. Vaccinating the healthy younger population is nearly useless, and the same "herd immunity", which is the goal to prevent infections of the vulnerable who should be voluntarily adopting whatever level of quarantine or isolation they choose (or not), would be achieved, and perhaps with greater "efficiency" if the so-called economically and psychologically and physical health damaging lockdowns never happened (see: Sweden).
My original post was re how the government of Hawaii would attempt to "persuade" and "encourage" people to get vaccinated... given their public relations campaigns to shame people into wearing masks and staying home and not engaging ina any social activity (see the many posters and bullshit "public service announcements" we are bombarded with daily). My reference point was "the proposed “vaccination law”, which would allow the [Danish] police to “physically coerce vaccination through detainment”."
I find that forced vaccination "objectionable". I'm neither pro-vax nor anti-vax. I'm pro personal freedom and liberty, and any attempt by any government agency to mandate any violation of the personal freedom and liberty to choose to vaccinate or not is authoritarian fascism. So I guess you could say I'm anti-fa.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 20, 2020, 03:56:34 PM
Anti Vaxx is a mindset and opinion not a camp. I was trying to say I was NOT putting people in "political camps". But a specific mindset/opinion. Clearly it went over your head. 100% independent favorable viewpoint.
Your argument is nothing but argumentative.
Being in a "camp" requires a "mindset and opinion."
Quote
camp:
2 a: a body of persons encamped
b(1): a group of persons
especially : a group engaged in promoting or defending a theory, doctrine, position, or person
(2): an ideological position
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/camp
Nowhere does it limit "camp" to a political .... anything.
Post by: macsak on November 20, 2020, 04:47:49 PM
Topic poster Ok'ed it so, its all green :geekdanc:
Hmm, I would say if perhaps you were anti vaxx would explain your pessimistic views on covid and requirements to vaccinate to attend school etc. If we went full tinfoil mode and my personal opinion, not assuming this is you, but anti-vaxxers are anti-science, or believe in fake science. In my opinion they are pretty stupid for their beliefs.
If you were not anti vaxx I would question why would be against the mass vaccination of people if found to be safe. We cured small pox and limited many viruses with vaccines safely. Now I don't keep track of everyone's exact opinion but if I recall correctly you are on team covid is more like the flu than a horrible disease. You being pro vaccinations would cause a little more confusion on that part. As the science consensus is Covid is far worse than the flu and vaccines work. Now if you believe in that why would not be pro vaccines.
TLDR if you were anti vaxx it would explain some of your viewpoints.
for someone who is all about freedom, you certainly spend a lot of your efforts belittling others for their opinions
aren't they free to have their own opinions?
Post by: Rocky on November 20, 2020, 04:58:26 PM
I’m going to wait and see how many extra heads people grow before trying it myself.I'm thinking more like "I am Legend"
Post by: mrgaf on November 20, 2020, 05:47:52 PM
Post by: omnigun on November 20, 2020, 07:54:16 PM
"Pessimistic"? You are demonstrating your unintelligence again. That word makes no sense in the context you use it... what's a "pessimistic view on covid"? What's a "pessimistic view [of]requirements to vaccinate to attend school etc"?
Plus, I've never once made any comment at all, directly or indirectly, about "requirements to vaccinate to attend school etc.", so your attribution of that position to me is 100% false, even if using "pessimistic" to modify it made sense.
Are you claiming you've read all the literature on vaccination and that anyone else who has read all the literature and concludes that the risks of vaccination are not something they want to subject themselves and/or their children to are uninformed or misinformed? Because you say so? Just like you do about anyone who disagrees with you about anything at all (e.g. "anthropogenic climate change", etc.)? If vaccinations are so safe, why has the federal government passed a law protecting all vaccine manufacturers from personal liability lawsuits? If vaccine injury is "fake science" and believing in vaccine injury is "anti-science", why has the federal government, through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, paid out over $4 BILLION in personal injury claims since 1988? You think the federal government paid $4 BILLION just to appease some "fake science" and "anti-science" wingnuts who were making non-credible claims of injury? If so, as you put it, you "are pretty stupid for [your] beliefs". Can't wait to hear your rational explanation for that.
When did I ever claim that I was "against mass vaccination"? I didn't. Your making stuff up again. Nothing new there. "We cured small pox and limited many viruses with vaccines safely." Again, if vaccinations are "safe", why has the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, paid out over $4 BILLION in personal injury claims since 1988? They didn't pay that out because vaccines are "safe". They paid that out because there have been $4 BILLION in injuries that were provably due to vaccinations. You don't just walk up to a window in government building and say "I was injured by a vaccine" and they immediately write you a big check on the spot. You have to make a credible case, and obviously, many people have made such cases: they were injured by vaccines. So your use of "safely" is false.
"[T]he science consensus is Covid is far worse than the flu". That's not true. It's worse than some flus (plus, there is extremely strong evidence that the death numbers attributed to Covid-19 are grossly inflated), especially for people over 70 and/or people with multiple comorbidities. For the vast majority of people under 60, the chance of fatality is almost zero. The "casedemic" is meaningless. Vaccinating the healthy younger population is nearly useless, and the same "herd immunity", which is the goal to prevent infections of the vulnerable who should be voluntarily adopting whatever level of quarantine or isolation they choose (or not), would be achieved, and perhaps with greater "efficiency" if the so-called economically and psychologically and physical health damaging lockdowns never happened (see: Sweden).
My original post was re how the government of Hawaii would attempt to "persuade" and "encourage" people to get vaccinated... given their public relations campaigns to shame people into wearing masks and staying home and not engaging ina any social activity (see the many posters and bullshit "public service announcements" we are bombarded with daily). My reference point was "the proposed “vaccination law”, which would allow the [Danish] police to “physically coerce vaccination through detainment”."
I find that forced vaccination "objectionable". I'm neither pro-vax nor anti-vax. I'm pro personal freedom and liberty, and any attempt by any government agency to mandate any violation of the personal freedom and liberty to choose to vaccinate or not is authoritarian fascism. So I guess you could say I'm anti-fa.
I apologize if I miss categorized you. Everyone here I am used to attacking me and my ideas but everyone is slightly different. Its fairly difficult to keep track. I don't have a list of everyone's beliefs and what they said. I am only human. Its one of my biggest flaws in posting here and one incredibly hard to correct but I will continue to try and improve.
It appeared from your post that you were against being "persuaded" from getting vaccinations. While I do believe strongly in freedom like I said previously. Vaccination is a public health issue. If you want to be in public I think it should be required (aka school) . It is however still your freedom to not get vaccinated. But you forfeit public rights. Just like in wartime, the publics good is important. A persons decision to not vaccinate is a threat to another persons right to not be infected. Infringing on that persons rights. That's the gray area. Yes I am claiming that "literature" against vaccines are wrong and a person is misinformed about the issues. Its public knowledge vaccines are good. As with everything there are dissenters, people who think the earth is flat etc. The majority of people do not think this and view those people who do as ignorant. I am not sure about those claims you made about the injury claims, I would have to do more research before commenting on those.
The consensus is it IS worse than the current flu. Just like the Spanish flu was bad in the beginning when there was no population immunity. Young people die too, they are not immune, its lower risk yes but still higher than a regular common flu. I find the opposite it appears the deaths are de-flated. If you look at the average death amount in the USA its higher than normal. Taking into account there are less accidents etc with lockdowns. How can the deaths be so high? The only common new variable is Covid. Sweden is a false trope. They have admitted themselves that was not the best method. Their deaths are far higher than their neighbors and they are having an outbreak as we speak. Lets say in this magical world you live in only old people lockdown and the young go out. How will you prevent them from bringing it home? How will you prevent the younger workers from infecting nursing homes, hospitals etc. Its impossible to isolate only a certain population based on age. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm Your under 60 statistics is wrong. There is risk for those under 60. I have no idea why you think vaccination of young populations is useless. Look at chicken pox and how rare it is. They vaccinate the youth and it works. Vaccinations work period. Do you rather infect everyone with chicken pox as a better method to get herd immunity?
I apologize I guess I misinterpreted that post. I do believe Hawaii should persuade and encourage people to get vaccinated. Ban all non vaccinated children from public schools. Ban all unvaccinated workers from public work. If they choose to homeschool or private school that accepts them that's their decision. If your private workplace is alright with a worker being unvaccinated that's their right too. There is a reason why Hawaii has some of the lowest rates in the country. Its effective. I would never support forced vaccination. Shame and ban from public areas is fine. This is America people have freedom, unless that freedom infringes on others freedom.
You antifa? :rofl: kidding. I am against fascism too, but this is not that. The united states did this before with the spanish flu. We did not decent to hitler.
Post by: macsak on November 20, 2020, 08:16:02 PM
I apologize if I miss categorized you. Everyone here I am used to attacking me and my ideas but everyone is slightly different. Its fairly difficult to keep track. I don't have a list of everyone's beliefs and what they said. I am only human. Its one of my biggest flaws in posting here and one incredibly hard to correct but I will continue to try and improve.
It appeared from your post that you were against being "persuaded" from getting vaccinations. While I do believe strongly in freedom like I said previously. Vaccination is a public health issue. If you want to be in public I think it should be required (aka school) . It is however still your freedom to not get vaccinated. But you forfeit public rights. Just like in wartime, the publics good is important. A persons decision to not vaccinate is a threat to another persons right to not be infected. Infringing on that persons rights. That's the gray area. Yes I am claiming that "literature" against vaccines are wrong and a person is misinformed about the issues. Its public knowledge vaccines are good. As with everything there are dissenters, people who think the earth is flat etc. The majority of people do not think this and view those people who do as ignorant. I am not sure about those claims you made about the injury claims, I would have to do more research before commenting on those.
The consensus is it IS worse than the current flu. Just like the Spanish flu was bad in the beginning when there was no population immunity. Young people die too, they are not immune, its lower risk yes but still higher than a regular common flu. I find the opposite it appears the deaths are de-flated. If you look at the average death amount in the USA its higher than normal. Taking into account there are less accidents etc with lockdowns. How can the deaths be so high? The only common new variable is Covid. Sweden is a false trope. They have admitted themselves that was not the best method. Their deaths are far higher than their neighbors and they are having an outbreak as we speak. Lets say in this magical world you live in only old people lockdown and the young go out. How will you prevent them from bringing it home? How will you prevent the younger workers from infecting nursing homes, hospitals etc. Its impossible to isolate only a certain population based on age. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm Your under 60 statistics is wrong. There is risk for those under 60. I have no idea why you think vaccination of young populations is useless. Look at chicken pox and how rare it is. They vaccinate the youth and it works. Vaccinations work period. Do you rather infect everyone with chicken pox as a better method to get herd immunity?
I apologize I guess I misinterpreted that post. I do believe Hawaii should persuade and encourage people to get vaccinated. Ban all non vaccinated children from public schools. Ban all unvaccinated workers from public work. If they choose to homeschool or private school that accepts them that's their decision. If your private workplace is alright with a worker being unvaccinated that's their right too. There is a reason why Hawaii has some of the lowest rates in the country. Its effective. I would never support forced vaccination. Shame and ban from public areas is fine. This is America people have freedom, unless that freedom infringes on others freedom.
You antifa? :rofl: kidding. I am against fascism too, but this is not that. The united states did this before with the spanish flu. We did not decent to hitler.
wut?
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 20, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
But knowing HI, one must show their papers if they go out of state and return or 14 day quarantine.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 20, 2020, 09:29:00 PM
[really big snip with large shears]
I apologize I guess I misinterpreted that post. I do believe Hawaii should persuade and encourage people to get vaccinated. Ban all non vaccinated children from public schools. Ban all unvaccinated workers from public work. If they choose to homeschool or private school that accepts them that's their decision. If your private workplace is alright with a worker being unvaccinated that's their right too. There is a reason why Hawaii has some of the lowest rates in the country. Its effective. I would never support forced vaccination. Shame and ban from public areas is fine. This is America people have freedom, unless that freedom infringes on others freedom.
You antifa? :rofl: kidding. I am against fascism too, but this is not that. The united states did this before with the spanish flu. We did not decent to hitler.
Is it your position that public school attendance and employment should be used as leverage to force vaccination compliance? Is lack of a vaccination proof that the person is infectious?
Is it your belief that anyone who works for a public agency or attends a public school has more rights than someone who does not in that they deserve to work and learn in a safer environment than those who don't have such leverage to force compliance?
Medical information is protected for obvious reasons, yet you want to force people to give employers and schools medical information concerning vaccinations. I guess right to privacy goes out the window unless you're only killing babies.
Either you're for protecting everyone via forced vaccination, or you only care about USING public agencies as a hammer to force compliance. Everyone else can exercise the FREEDOM to CHOOSE for themselves.
So, explain how being vaccinated for a communicable disease protects others. I thought vaccinations protects the vaccinated person. If everyone who wants to be vaccinated is protected, and everyone who doesn't want to be are the only ones getting the disease, where is this "danger to innocent people" you elude to?
Post by: macsak on November 20, 2020, 09:44:50 PM
I apologize if I miss categorized you. Everyone here I am used to attacking me and my ideas but everyone is slightly different. Its fairly difficult to keep track. I don't have a list of everyone's beliefs and what they said. I am only human. Its one of my biggest flaws in posting here and one incredibly hard to correct but I will continue to try and improve.
It appeared from your post that you were against being "persuaded" from getting vaccinations. While I do believe strongly in freedom like I said previously. Vaccination is a public health issue. If you want to be in public I think it should be required (aka school) . It is however still your freedom to not get vaccinated. But you forfeit public rights. Just like in wartime, the publics good is important. A persons decision to not vaccinate is a threat to another persons right to not be infected. Infringing on that persons rights. That's the gray area. Yes I am claiming that "literature" against vaccines are wrong and a person is misinformed about the issues. Its public knowledge vaccines are good. As with everything there are dissenters, people who think the earth is flat etc. The majority of people do not think this and view those people who do as ignorant. I am not sure about those claims you made about the injury claims, I would have to do more research before commenting on those.
The consensus is it IS worse than the current flu. Just like the Spanish flu was bad in the beginning when there was no population immunity. Young people die too, they are not immune, its lower risk yes but still higher than a regular common flu. I find the opposite it appears the deaths are de-flated. If you look at the average death amount in the USA its higher than normal. Taking into account there are less accidents etc with lockdowns. How can the deaths be so high? The only common new variable is Covid. Sweden is a false trope. They have admitted themselves that was not the best method. Their deaths are far higher than their neighbors and they are having an outbreak as we speak. Lets say in this magical world you live in only old people lockdown and the young go out. How will you prevent them from bringing it home? How will you prevent the younger workers from infecting nursing homes, hospitals etc. Its impossible to isolate only a certain population based on age. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm Your under 60 statistics is wrong. There is risk for those under 60. I have no idea why you think vaccination of young populations is useless. Look at chicken pox and how rare it is. They vaccinate the youth and it works. Vaccinations work period. Do you rather infect everyone with chicken pox as a better method to get herd immunity?
I apologize I guess I misinterpreted that post. I do believe Hawaii should persuade and encourage people to get vaccinated. Ban all non vaccinated children from public schools. Ban all unvaccinated workers from public work. If they choose to homeschool or private school that accepts them that's their decision. If your private workplace is alright with a worker being unvaccinated that's their right too. There is a reason why Hawaii has some of the lowest rates in the country. Its effective. I would never support forced vaccination. Shame and ban from public areas is fine. This is America people have freedom, unless that freedom infringes on others freedom.
You antifa? :rofl: kidding. I am against fascism too, but this is not that. The united states did this before with the spanish flu. We did not decent to hitler.
wut?
Post by: macsak on November 20, 2020, 09:48:45 PM
I apologize if I miss categorized you. Everyone here I am used to attacking me and my ideas but everyone is slightly different. Its fairly difficult to keep track. I don't have a list of everyone's beliefs and what they said. I am only human. Its one of my biggest flaws in posting here and one incredibly hard to correct but I will continue to try and improve.
It appeared from your post that you were against being "persuaded" from getting vaccinations. While I do believe strongly in freedom like I said previously. Vaccination is a public health issue. If you want to be in public I think it should be required (aka school) . It is however still your freedom to not get vaccinated. But you forfeit public rights. Just like in wartime, the publics good is important. A persons decision to not vaccinate is a threat to another persons right to not be infected. Infringing on that persons rights. That's the gray area. Yes I am claiming that "literature" against vaccines are wrong and a person is misinformed about the issues. Its public knowledge vaccines are good. As with everything there are dissenters, people who think the earth is flat etc. The majority of people do not think this and view those people who do as ignorant. I am not sure about those claims you made about the injury claims, I would have to do more research before commenting on those.
The consensus is it IS worse than the current flu. Just like the Spanish flu was bad in the beginning when there was no population immunity. Young people die too, they are not immune, its lower risk yes but still higher than a regular common flu. I find the opposite it appears the deaths are de-flated. If you look at the average death amount in the USA its higher than normal. Taking into account there are less accidents etc with lockdowns. How can the deaths be so high? The only common new variable is Covid. Sweden is a false trope. They have admitted themselves that was not the best method. Their deaths are far higher than their neighbors and they are having an outbreak as we speak. Lets say in this magical world you live in only old people lockdown and the young go out. How will you prevent them from bringing it home? How will you prevent the younger workers from infecting nursing homes, hospitals etc. Its impossible to isolate only a certain population based on age. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm Your under 60 statistics is wrong. There is risk for those under 60. I have no idea why you think vaccination of young populations is useless. Look at chicken pox and how rare it is. They vaccinate the youth and it works. Vaccinations work period. Do you rather infect everyone with chicken pox as a better method to get herd immunity?
I apologize I guess I misinterpreted that post. I do believe Hawaii should persuade and encourage people to get vaccinated. Ban all non vaccinated children from public schools. Ban all unvaccinated workers from public work. If they choose to homeschool or private school that accepts them that's their decision. If your private workplace is alright with a worker being unvaccinated that's their right too. There is a reason why Hawaii has some of the lowest rates in the country. Its effective. I would never support forced vaccination. Shame and ban from public areas is fine. This is America people have freedom, unless that freedom infringes on others freedom.
You antifa? :rofl: kidding. I am against fascism too, but this is not that. The united states did this before with the spanish flu. We did not decent to hitler.
yet everyone knows where you stand, because you post the same beliefs in multiple threads and even repeat yourself twice in a post like you have done here...
Post by: macsak on November 20, 2020, 09:52:14 PM
I apologize if I miss categorized you. Everyone here I am used to attacking me and my ideas but everyone is slightly different. Its fairly difficult to keep track. I don't have a list of everyone's beliefs and what they said. I am only human. Its one of my biggest flaws in posting here and one incredibly hard to correct but I will continue to try and improve.
It appeared from your post that you were against being "persuaded" from getting vaccinations. While I do believe strongly in freedom like I said previously. Vaccination is a public health issue. If you want to be in public I think it should be required (aka school) . It is however still your freedom to not get vaccinated. But you forfeit public rights. Just like in wartime, the publics good is important. A persons decision to not vaccinate is a threat to another persons right to not be infected. Infringing on that persons rights. That's the gray area. Yes I am claiming that "literature" against vaccines are wrong and a person is misinformed about the issues. Its public knowledge vaccines are good. As with everything there are dissenters, people who think the earth is flat etc. The majority of people do not think this and view those people who do as ignorant. I am not sure about those claims you made about the injury claims, I would have to do more research before commenting on those.
The consensus is it IS worse than the current flu. Just like the Spanish flu was bad in the beginning when there was no population immunity. Young people die too, they are not immune, its lower risk yes but still higher than a regular common flu. I find the opposite it appears the deaths are de-flated. If you look at the average death amount in the USA its higher than normal. Taking into account there are less accidents etc with lockdowns. How can the deaths be so high? The only common new variable is Covid. Sweden is a false trope. They have admitted themselves that was not the best method. Their deaths are far higher than their neighbors and they are having an outbreak as we speak. Lets say in this magical world you live in only old people lockdown and the young go out. How will you prevent them from bringing it home? How will you prevent the younger workers from infecting nursing homes, hospitals etc. Its impossible to isolate only a certain population based on age. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm Your under 60 statistics is wrong. There is risk for those under 60. I have no idea why you think vaccination of young populations is useless. Look at chicken pox and how rare it is. They vaccinate the youth and it works. Vaccinations work period. Do you rather infect everyone with chicken pox as a better method to get herd immunity?
I apologize I guess I misinterpreted that post. I do believe Hawaii should persuade and encourage people to get vaccinated. Ban all non vaccinated children from public schools. Ban all unvaccinated workers from public work. If they choose to homeschool or private school that accepts them that's their decision. If your private workplace is alright with a worker being unvaccinated that's their right too. There is a reason why Hawaii has some of the lowest rates in the country. Its effective. I would never support forced vaccination. Shame and ban from public areas is fine. This is America people have freedom, unless that freedom infringes on others freedom.
You antifa? :rofl: kidding. I am against fascism too, but this is not that. The united states did this before with the spanish flu. We did not decent to hitler.
so aren't you attacking punaperson here by saying that he is "misinformed" and "ignorant"
Post by: groveler on November 21, 2020, 12:16:23 AM
Im not getting a covid vaxxx until after a few years maybe.as I have said before,
But knowing HI, one must show their papers if they go out of state and return or 14 day quarantine.
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buy a sailboat and go into business.
Post by: punaperson on November 21, 2020, 08:09:31 AM
I apologize if I miss categorized you. Everyone here I am used to attacking me and my ideas but everyone is slightly different. Its fairly difficult to keep track. I don't have a list of everyone's beliefs and what they said. I am only human. Its one of my biggest flaws in posting here and one incredibly hard to correct but I will continue to try and improve.(https://i.imgur.com/vTsXkxv.gif)
It appeared from your post that you were against being "persuaded" from getting vaccinations. While I do believe strongly in freedom like I said previously. Vaccination is a public health issue. If you want to be in public I think it should be required (aka school) . It is however still your freedom to not get vaccinated. But you forfeit public rights. Just like in wartime, the publics good is important. A persons decision to not vaccinate is a threat to another persons right to not be infected. Infringing on that persons rights. That's the gray area. Yes I am claiming that "literature" against vaccines are wrong and a person is misinformed about the issues. Its public knowledge vaccines are good. As with everything there are dissenters, people who think the earth is flat etc. The majority of people do not think this and view those people who do as ignorant. I am not sure about those claims you made about the injury claims, I would have to do more research before commenting on those.
The consensus is it IS worse than the current flu. Just like the Spanish flu was bad in the beginning when there was no population immunity. Young people die too, they are not immune, its lower risk yes but still higher than a regular common flu. I find the opposite it appears the deaths are de-flated. If you look at the average death amount in the USA its higher than normal. Taking into account there are less accidents etc with lockdowns. How can the deaths be so high? The only common new variable is Covid. Sweden is a false trope. They have admitted themselves that was not the best method. Their deaths are far higher than their neighbors and they are having an outbreak as we speak. Lets say in this magical world you live in only old people lockdown and the young go out. How will you prevent them from bringing it home? How will you prevent the younger workers from infecting nursing homes, hospitals etc. Its impossible to isolate only a certain population based on age. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm Your under 60 statistics is wrong. There is risk for those under 60. I have no idea why you think vaccination of young populations is useless. Look at chicken pox and how rare it is. They vaccinate the youth and it works. Vaccinations work period. Do you rather infect everyone with chicken pox as a better method to get herd immunity?
I apologize I guess I misinterpreted that post. I do believe Hawaii should persuade and encourage people to get vaccinated. Ban all non vaccinated children from public schools. Ban all unvaccinated workers from public work. If they choose to homeschool or private school that accepts them that's their decision. If your private workplace is alright with a worker being unvaccinated that's their right too. There is a reason why Hawaii has some of the lowest rates in the country. Its effective. I would never support forced vaccination. Shame and ban from public areas is fine. This is America people have freedom, unless that freedom infringes on others freedom.
You antifa? :rofl: kidding. I am against fascism too, but this is not that. The united states did this before with the spanish flu. We did not decent to hitler.
That's some nuclear level stupid and illogic (not to mention the authoritarian fascism). I'm not gonna waste my time on it.
Post by: punaperson on November 21, 2020, 08:50:57 AM
Are Pandemic Lockdowns A Dry Run For The ‘Climate Crisis’?
November 18, 2020
https://issuesinsights.com/2020/11/18/lockdowns-for-the-pandemic-now-global-warming-later/
Excerpt:
The lockdown hammer landed hard on California and several other states Monday. At one time it seemed absurd to think government officials’ pandemic orders were a dry run for future attempts to confine and subjugate the country to mitigate global warming. It’s time we rethink that.
Observant and cunning politicians have gone to school since March and are now likely convinced they can use the pretext of a climate emergency to control Americans and break the back of capitalism. No, we’re not likely to see the open-ended lockdowns we’re enduring during the coronavirus outbreak. Those would be too obvious. Politicians can be sneaky sorts so we expect something more subtle and incremental.
For instance, California Gov. Gavin Newsom, who clearly relishes having near absolute control over the most populous state in the country, could issue an executive order next summer which says, beginning in January 2022, all businesses except the few deemed essential must be closed every other Friday, and car travel on those days will be restricted solely to those who can demonstrate an absolute need to be on the roads.
* * * * *
We don’t want to be pessimists, but we’re unlikely to stand up then unless we stand up now.
Post by: omnigun on November 21, 2020, 09:23:37 AM
Post by: punaperson on November 21, 2020, 09:36:22 AM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/health/mask-mandates-kansas-coronavirus-wellness/index.htmlFrom the CDC:
(https://i.imgur.com/KKc0GZA.png)
Face Masks
In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs [Fauci has stated that only Randomized Controlled Trials should be considered valid evidence] that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2). One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group (33). Two studies in university settings assessed the effectiveness of face masks for primary protection by monitoring the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among student hall residents for 5 months (9,10). The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies (9,10). Study designs in the 7 household studies were slightly different: 1 study provided face masks and P2 respirators for household contacts only (34), another study evaluated face mask use as a source control for infected persons only (35), and the remaining studies provided masks for the infected persons as well as their close contacts (11–13,15,17). None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group (11–13,15,17,34,35). Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group.
Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.
Post by: punaperson on November 21, 2020, 09:40:59 AM
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 21, 2020, 11:19:23 AM
Im not getting a covid vaxxx until after a few years maybe.
But knowing HI, one must show their papers if they go out of state and return or 14 day quarantine.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201121/21d1c9e60f2781b730c43a0f03d94c9a.jpg)Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2020, 11:44:18 AM
How is forcing mask compliance logical when the rate of efficacy is 15% or less? We can't assume in a population that saw an 85% usage rate that not wearing a mask was what caused the remaining 15% to become infected. Could have been close contact with a COVID-19 carrier, poor hand-washing habits, poor social distancing, etc.
Simply put, if wearing a mask didn't prevent 85% of cases, then not wearing a mask can't be automatically blamed as the reason for the other 15%.
Now there are many studies saying masks do not stop or even reduce infections. Saying, "I never got COVID-19 because I wore a mask," is not supported by the science nor the statistics. Therefore, mask mandates are not within the scope of government. The facts don't justify penalizing people for not wearing masks.
Post by: omnigun on November 21, 2020, 12:02:29 PM
The CDC says their own numbers show that 85% of those infected with COVID WORE MASKS OFTEN OR ALWAYS.
How is forcing mask compliance logical when the rate of efficacy is 15% or less? We can't assume in a population that saw an 85% usage rate that not wearing a mask was what caused the remaining 15% to become infected. Could have been close contact with a COVID-19 carrier, poor hand-washing habits, poor social distancing, etc.
Simply put, if wearing a mask didn't prevent 85% of cases, then not wearing a mask can't be automatically blamed as the reason for the other 15%.
Now there are many studies saying masks do not stop or even reduce infections. Saying, "I never got COVID-19 because I wore a mask," is not supported by the science nor the statistics. Therefore, mask mandates are not within the scope of government. The facts don't justify penalizing people for not wearing masks.
Are there studies showing masks increasing infections? Masks are not 100% but they help. Any help is good. For the price of wearing one stupid piece of cloth or similar over your face, even a "15%" reduction is good. That's like complaining restaurants demand you wear shirts and shoes to get service...you are free to eat naked at home all you want. Minor convenience for the public good, if you are patriotic you should try do anything reasonable to help our your fellow countrymen and the countries health. Not sure why this is such a big deal. It was done before in the past. Government measures in time of need have never been such a big issue before. Hell in time of war you lose out on materials and gas etc for the good of the nation. We are one country and should protect the freedom of all citizens, but as a country we need the citizens to pitch in to protect this great nation. For someone who preaches religion and morality sure is weird to see you so against any chances of saving lives for minor inconveniences. Doesn't your god teach something along the line of helping neighbors?
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 21, 2020, 12:47:05 PM
Are there studies showing masks increasing infections? Masks are not 100% but they help. Any help is good. For the price of wearing one stupid piece of cloth or similar over your face, even a "15%" reduction is good. That's like complaining restaurants demand you wear shirts and shoes to get service...you are free to eat naked at home all you want. Minor convenience for the public good, if you are patriotic you should try do anything reasonable to help our your fellow countrymen and the countries health. Not sure why this is such a big deal. It was done before in the past. Government measures in time of need have never been such a big issue before. Hell in time of war you lose out on materials and gas etc for the good of the nation. We are one country and should protect the freedom of all citizens, but as a country we need the citizens to pitch in to protect this great nation. For someone who preaches religion and morality sure is weird to see you so against any chances of saving lives for minor inconveniences. Doesn't your god teach something along the line of helping neighbors?I would say go back read what happen in Nazi Germany. Still praying to my God for you
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Post by: omnigun on November 21, 2020, 12:58:16 PM
I would say go back read what happen in Nazi Germany. Still praying to my God for you
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Not sure how that and the current situation is related. In 1918 we had a mask mandate similar to one right now. We didn't create a fascist country after that... In ww1 and ww2 and cold war times there was similar government restrictions around materials and goods. We didn't create a fascist country either. If anything Trump is the closest path to fascism we have today. Creating distrust in elections without proof to try usurp power. So far no mass fraud found, Georgia disproved software fraud. Waiting till the rest of the court cases play out but if it remains true then Trump is the closest we got in recent history. Of course if he is correct then that changes everything but doesn't look likely at this point.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2020, 12:58:32 PM
Are there studies showing masks increasing infections? Masks are not 100% but they help. Any help is good. For the price of wearing one stupid piece of cloth or similar over your face, even a "15%" reduction is good. That's like complaining restaurants demand you wear shirts and shoes to get service...you are free to eat naked at home all you want. Minor convenience for the public good, if you are patriotic you should try do anything reasonable to help our your fellow countrymen and the countries health. Not sure why this is such a big deal. It was done before in the past. Government measures in time of need have never been such a big issue before. Hell in time of war you lose out on materials and gas etc for the good of the nation. We are one country and should protect the freedom of all citizens, but as a country we need the citizens to pitch in to protect this great nation. For someone who preaches religion and morality sure is weird to see you so against any chances of saving lives for minor inconveniences. Doesn't your god teach something along the line of helping neighbors?
Lots of studies on what might increase infection chances:
Too short? High risk!
https://bgr.com/2020/11/10/coronavirus-update-cough-shorter-higher-risk-vs-tall/
So, trying to prove any factor increases your chances requires (1) controlled variables, (2) control groups, and (3) PEOPLE WILLING TO GET INFECTED WITH COVID-19.
No ethical scientist or medical professionals are going to infect people intentionally. Using animals might be useful, but the shear size difference between humans and animals might make humans more susceptible to a virus that's too large to easily infect a small host.
Nazis had no ethical issues when experimenting on Jews, in case you can't quite grasp the connection.
Post by: macsak on November 21, 2020, 01:02:52 PM
Not sure how that and the current situation is related. In 1918 we had a mask mandate similar to one right now. We didn't create a fascist country after that... In ww1 and ww2 and cold war times there was similar government restrictions around materials and goods. We didn't create a fascist country either. If anything Trump is the closest path to fascism we have today. Creating distrust in elections without proof to try usurp power. So far no mass fraud found, Georgia disproved software fraud. Waiting till the rest of the court cases play out but if it remains true then Trump is the closest we got in recent history. Of course if he is correct then that changes everything but doesn't look likely at this point.
so using legal means to ensure a fair election is now usurping power?
Post by: macsak on November 21, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
Not sure how that and the current situation is related. In 1918 we had a mask mandate similar to one right now. We didn't create a fascist country after that... In ww1 and ww2 and cold war times there was similar government restrictions around materials and goods. We didn't create a fascist country either. If anything Trump is the closest path to fascism we have today. Creating distrust in elections without proof to try usurp power. So far no mass fraud found, Georgia disproved software fraud. Waiting till the rest of the court cases play out but if it remains true then Trump is the closest we got in recent history. Of course if he is correct then that changes everything but doesn't look likely at this point.
are those not vaccinated going to have to wear an armband with a covid pictogram on it?
Post by: omnigun on November 21, 2020, 01:17:30 PM
so using legal means to ensure a fair election is now usurping power?
No, but suggesting to tie up the election so you can get the house to vote you in, is. As many of people here and others have said is a great way to get trump in, is. Just like democrats got us closer to fascism with the stupid Russian witch hunt which in the end proved nothing. This is the republicans turn and like trump said "revenge". But all that does is move us closer to fascism. I thought the republicans would not make the same mistakes as the democrats, apparently I am wrong.
are those not vaccinated going to have to wear an armband with a covid pictogram on it?
:crazy: :crazy:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2020, 01:18:03 PM
No, but suggesting to tie up the election so you can get the house to vote you in, is. As many of people here and others have said is a great way to get trump in, is. Just like democrats got us closer to fascism with the stupid Russian witch hunt which in the end proved nothing. This is the republicans turn and like trump said "revenge". But all that does is move us closer to fascism. I thought the republicans would not make the same mistakes as the democrats, apparently I am wrong.
:crazy: :crazy:
:stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack: :stopjack:
Post by: macsak on November 21, 2020, 01:25:16 PM
No, but suggesting to tie up the election so you can get the house to vote you in, is. As many of people here and others have said is a great way to get trump in, is. Just like democrats got us closer to fascism with the stupid Russian witch hunt which in the end proved nothing. This is the republicans turn and like trump said "revenge". But all that does is move us closer to fascism. I thought the republicans would not make the same mistakes as the democrats, apparently I am wrong.
:crazy: :crazy:
no one here has said this, and neither has trump
Post by: omnigun on November 21, 2020, 01:28:44 PM
no one here has said this, and neither has trump
False, it was said several times by forum members here. Also the media has said it. Not sure if trump said it but I recall something similar being said when he was talking about a contested election.
Post by: macsak on November 21, 2020, 01:37:18 PM
False, it was said several times by forum members here. Also the media has said it. Not sure if trump said it but I recall something similar being said when he was talking about a contested election.
please show me where anyone said it was a "great idea"
edit, sorry "great way"
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 21, 2020, 01:52:24 PM
This doesn't sound like Nazi Germany. We're just making this stuff up as we go along.
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Post by: omnigun on November 21, 2020, 03:07:16 PM
https://www.theblaze.com/bill-pascrell-congressman-trump-crimes
This doesn't sound like Nazi Germany. We're just making this stuff up as we go along.
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Democrats say stupid shit, nothing new. Republicans said the same about Hillary. Both sides have their stupid members.
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 21, 2020, 04:00:51 PM
Brb, making armbands now and asking a jew for help. I wonder what they will think. Will mandatory tattoos also be next because armbands can be removed?
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Post by: macsak on November 21, 2020, 04:01:28 PM
Democrats say stupid shit, nothing new. Republicans said the same about Hillary. Both sides have their stupid members.
still waiting for your examples
or were you just projecting again...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2020, 04:08:33 PM
Just when i think someone can't get anymore stupid, they do. Im done wasting my time.
Brb, making armbands now and asking a jew for help. I wonder what they will think. Will mandatory tattoos also be next because armbands can be removed?
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You're old! Armbands and tattoos are so 1940s. Now it's RFID chips and biometric identification, not unlike the way we microchip pets.
Post by: macsak on November 21, 2020, 04:12:17 PM
Democrats say stupid shit, nothing new. Republicans said the same about Hillary. Both sides have their stupid members.
so here you say that dems say stupid shit, yet in another thread you post one guy at a rally in georgia and say that republicans are all listening to qanon and will boycott the special election
Post by: omnigun on November 21, 2020, 04:27:50 PM
so here you say that dems say stupid shit, yet in another thread you post one guy at a rally in georgia and say that republicans are all listening to qanon and will boycott the special election
I said if it's true. From reading the article and tweets. It's hard to tell now days. Saying stupid shit isn't exactly political. Both sides have stupid ideas and people.
Post by: omnigun on November 21, 2020, 04:30:21 PM
still waiting for your examples
or were you just projecting again...
I'm not about to search hundreds of pages to find one. You got the same searching abilities
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2020, 04:31:09 PM
I said if it's true. From reading the article and tweets. It's hard to tell now days. Saying stupid shit isn't exactly political. Both sides have stupid ideas and people.
When you circulate information that you can't be sure is true or not, we call that rumors.
When CNN or MSNBC does it, it's called Fake News.
Both rumors and Fake News should be avoided. But, I can see how, if that's the only thing you've got, you have no other options than to spread rumors.
Post by: macsak on November 21, 2020, 04:38:22 PM
I'm not about to search hundreds of pages to find one. You got the same searching abilitiesyou made the statement ,dumbass
you can't just make up shit, and not back it up
ok, now we are sure how you roll, if it was still in question
here's why you cannot find it
because no one here said it was a "great way" to get trump elected
everyone used it as an example of what could happen if there was a contested election
because it's in the actual rules to elect a president
smh
Post by: macsak on November 21, 2020, 04:39:16 PM
I said if it's true. From reading the article and tweets. It's hard to tell now days. Saying stupid shit isn't exactly political. Both sides have stupid ideas and people.
even "independents" have stupid people...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2020, 05:03:13 PM
I'm not about to search hundreds of pages to find one. You got the same searching abilities
You can't figure out how the Search feature on this forum works?
#LiterallyNoITskillz
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 21, 2020, 05:06:09 PM
Democrats say stupid shit, nothing new. Republicans said the same about Hillary. Both sides have their stupid members.Nazis said stupid s##t too till it became a reality
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2020, 05:10:40 PM
Nazis said stupid s##t too till it became a reality
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Can't leave out Socialists -- of ALL varieties.
Communists
Democrats
Liberals
Democratic Socialists
Socialist Democrats
Progressives
Worker's party
Proletariat
Labor Unions
...
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 21, 2020, 06:10:17 PM
Can't leave out Socialists -- of ALL varieties.Maybe he should change his screen name to commigun
Communists
Democrats
Liberals
Democratic Socialists
Socialist Democrats
Progressives
Worker's party
Proletariat
Labor Unions
...
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Post by: punaperson on November 21, 2020, 06:13:11 PM
Given that Hawaii is run by a cabal of the worst and dimmest... these useful idiots no doubt, based on their current policies and statements, have similar intentions as outlined here.
[See the original article at the link for all embedded links to many references.]
Now Is The Time For Americans To Rebel Against Lockdowns, Mask Laws And Forced Vaccination
By Brandon Smith
November 20, 2020
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/11/no_author/now-is-the-time-for-americans-to-rebel-against-lockdowns-mask-laws-and-forced-vaccination/
Excerpt:
With the presidential election highly contested and the mainstream media hyping the rising infection numbers, the public is now facing important questions regarding the future of the pandemic response. Some states have decided to unilaterally introduce “executive orders” to restrict citizen movements, business openings and public activities.
Anthony Fauci is on the news constantly, calling for families to cancel Thanksgiving and Christmas and telling Americans to just “do what we are told”. The media is generally trying to drum up fear in the minds of the populace and paint images of plague and death everywhere. If Biden does actually end up in the White House, a federalized and national high level lockdown is on the table starting in January.
In April of this year I published an article titled ‘Waves Of Mutilation: Medical Tyranny And The Cashless Society’, which outlined a social engineering model put forward by globalists at MIT and the Imperial College of London which I called “wave theory”. The model essentially works like this:
Governments must use the pandemic as a rationale for “waves” of restrictive lockdowns, followed by controlled re-openings of the economy and of normal human activity. Globalists claim that this will “slow” the spread of the coronavirus and save lives. However, they also openly admit that these cycles of closures and openings have other uses.
Over time, the citizenry becomes acclimated to governmental intrusion in their everyday lives, and they get used to the idea of bureaucracy telling them what they are not allowed to do when it comes to the simplest activities. The system thus bottlenecks all human interactions to the point that we are constantly asking for permission. We become slaves to the Covid response.
As globalist Gideon Lichfield from MIT stated in his article ‘We’re Not Going Back To Normal’:
“Ultimately, however, I predict that we’ll restore the ability to socialize safely by developing more sophisticated ways to identify who is a disease risk and who isn’t, and discriminating—legally—against those who are.
…one can imagine a world in which, to get on a flight, perhaps you’ll have to be signed up to a service that tracks your movements via your phone. The airline wouldn’t be able to see where you’d gone, but it would get an alert if you’d been close to known infected people or disease hot spots. There’d be similar requirements at the entrance to large venues, government buildings, or public transport hubs. There would be temperature scanners everywhere, and your workplace might demand you wear a monitor that tracks your temperature or other vital signs. Where nightclubs ask for proof of age, in future they might ask for proof of immunity—an identity card or some kind of digital verification via your phone, showing you’ve already recovered from or been vaccinated against the latest virus strains.”
Note that Lichfield suggested that in order to participate in the normal economy you might need to show verification that you have been “vaccinated against the latest virus strains”. In other words, the elites expect there to be many more viral events or mutations AFTER Covid 19 has run its course, and the restrictions and controls we see today are meant to continue, possibly FOREVER.
Post by: punaperson on November 21, 2020, 06:19:29 PM
But... will someone please inform me if he proffers an answer to my question of several days ago (since he never responded I assume, as usual, he has no actual fact- and reality-based answer):
[After he claimed vaccines have been proven "safe", etc.] If vaccine injury is "fake science" and believing in vaccine injury is "anti-science", why has the federal government, through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, paid out over $4 BILLION in personal injury claims since 1988?
I guess he "forgot" to answer.
Post by: robtmc on November 21, 2020, 06:49:40 PM
I guess he "forgot" to answer.Maybe his/her Gargle search on the iFag did not come up with a rebuttal?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2020, 07:13:56 PM
I've blocked the resident moron who can't spell, construct grammatically correct sentences, and whose logical skills would earn him an F- in Logic 101.
But... will someone please inform me if he proffers an answer to my question of several days ago (since he never responded I assume, as usual, he has no actual fact- and reality-based answer):
[After he claimed vaccines have been proven "safe", etc.] If vaccine injury is "fake science" and believing in vaccine injury is "anti-science", why has the federal government, through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, paid out over $4 BILLION in personal injury claims since 1988?
I guess he "forgot" to answer.
I notice he hasn't responded to my direct questions at all, and I've given him plenty to respond to today.
He only responds to me when he wants to make HIS point, using mine as a springboard to go off on a tangent. Such as, someone giving testimony about DIRECT EYE-WITNESSED FACTS is somehow as unreliable as someone CLAIMING THE MOON LANDING WAS STAGED. Seriously? One is an accusation under oath in a sworn affidavit presenting facts they directly observed, and the other is an unsupported CONCLUSION. which has been debunked 9 ways to Sunday.
How is that even pretending to be a serious argument? Yet, the things he could try to answer on a more serious level using facts and sources he ignores completely.
Don't expect a serious response from him. It's all about how we don't want to hear opposing opinions. It's all on us to accept his view of reality as the truth.
I pray for him every night -- that he somehow walks in front of a large telecom dish and is forever unable to reproduce! :rofl:
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 21, 2020, 07:33:47 PM
I notice he hasn't responded to my direct questions at all, and I've given him plenty to respond to today.To your God or his?
He only responds to me when he wants to make HIS point, using mine as a springboard to go off on a tangent. Such as, someone giving testimony about DIRECT EYE-WITNESSED FACTS is somehow as unreliable as someone CLAIMING THE MOON LANDING WAS STAGED. Seriously? One is an accusation under oath in a sworn affidavit presenting facts they directly observed, and the other is an unsupported CONCLUSION. which has been debunked 9 ways to Sunday.
How is that even pretending to be a serious argument? Yet, the things he could try to answer on a more serious level using facts and sources he ignores completely.
Don't expect a serious response from him. It's all about how we don't want to hear opposing opinions. It's all on us to accept his view of reality as the truth.
I pray for him every night -- that he somehow walks in front of a large telecom dish and is forever unable to reproduce! :rofl:
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2020, 07:37:56 PM
To your God or his?
There's only one.
A rose by any other name ... :thumbsup:
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 21, 2020, 07:47:50 PM
Basically if this were 1938 and they were germans, they would call the gestapo on their 20 year long neighbor who's a jew.
So far, not much chatter about the vaxxx yet. But im sure once it is available, they want some kind of ID that shows if you got the vaxxx or not. They did the same about tourist testing prior to arriving. How do they know who did and who didnt, so they can call the cops on someone who looks like a tourist.
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Post by: aletheuo137 on November 21, 2020, 07:49:12 PM
There's only one.You and I know that, I'm not sure if he does
A rose by any other name ...
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Post by: aletheuo137 on November 22, 2020, 07:31:29 AM
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Post by: omnigun on November 22, 2020, 08:39:22 AM
It appears all your money is on the side effects to a few people. As with everything in life nothing is 100%. But there comes a point of greater good and a worth while risk. Car accident payouts is even larger yet most of us all use the roads to travel.
https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html
Post by: drck1000 on November 22, 2020, 09:44:50 AM
you made the statement ,dumbassNah. He’s the victim, the lone advocate for freedom.
you can't just make up shit, and not back it up
ok, now we are sure how you roll, if it was still in question
here's why you cannot find it
because no one here said it was a "great way" to get trump elected
everyone used it as an example of what could happen if there was a contested election
because it's in the actual rules to elect a president
smh
One day he’ll realize he’s not being attacked for just views. It’s because he runs his mouth and says stuff he won’t backup with anything more than his feelings or beliefs.
Post by: macsak on November 22, 2020, 10:00:04 AM
I didn't respond because I don't have enough bandwidth to argue with everyone on vaccines along with everything else. And I highly doubt I will be able to convince anyone here so it will be arguing with a wall at this point.
It appears all your money is on the side effects to a few people. As with everything in life nothing is 100%. But there comes a point of greater good and a worth while risk. Car accident payouts is even larger yet most of us all use the roads to travel.
https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html
aka
i didn't respond because i talk so much shit that i can't back up...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 22, 2020, 10:25:18 AM
I didn't respond because I don't have enough bandwidth to argue with everyone on vaccines along with everything else. And I highly doubt I will be able to convince anyone here so it will be arguing with a wall at this point.
It appears all your money is on the side effects to a few people. As with everything in life nothing is 100%. But there comes a point of greater good and a worth while risk. Car accident payouts is even larger yet most of us all use the roads to travel.
You mean, risks like opening up the businesses instead of never-ending lockdowns? Death rates are in the 0%-3%, depending on age, health, etc. Survival is almost 100% certain.
Some slim risks seem to be more accepted than others.
Post by: drck1000 on November 22, 2020, 10:27:27 AM
You mean, risks like opening up the businesses instead of never-ending lockdowns? Death rates are in the 0%-3%, depending on age, health, etc. Survival is almost 100% certain.No. But he expects 100% tangible proof for stuff he doesn’t believe in.
Some slim risks seem to be more accepted than others.
Post by: punaperson on November 22, 2020, 12:40:11 PM
Only an authoritarian fascist thinks that the liberties and freedoms of lawful citizens can be suspended or revoked or overwritten for the sake of some nebulous (and likely unproven or unprovable) "community benefit" (i.e. the "gun violence" "public health epidemic" requires that the right to keep and bear arms be suspended regarding certain classes or firearms, for instance, semi-automatic firearms or any but bolt action firearms, etc., etc., etc.).
Post by: macsak on November 22, 2020, 01:02:56 PM
No. But he expects 100% tangible proof for stuff he doesn’t believe in.
that's because-
what he believes in = "settled science"
and
what he doesn't believe in = "conspiracy theories"
Post by: drck1000 on November 22, 2020, 01:28:16 PM
that's because-Science is based on consensus...
what he believes in = "settled science"
and
what he doesn't believe in = "conspiracy theories"
Wonder what he believes about the laws of physics. Prob just guidelines and “settled” in courts...
Post by: omnigun on November 22, 2020, 05:26:38 PM
So the moron claims that $4 BILLION payouts from the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program went to "a few people"? What, a BILLION to each of 4 people, or a million each to 4,000 people? How many is "a few"? And what difference does it make how many people purportedly "benefit" if your child dies or is permanently seriously disabled?
Only an authoritarian fascist thinks that the liberties and freedoms of lawful citizens can be suspended or revoked or overwritten for the sake of some nebulous (and likely unproven or unprovable) "community benefit" (i.e. the "gun violence" "public health epidemic" requires that the right to keep and bear arms be suspended regarding certain classes or firearms, for instance, semi-automatic firearms or any but bolt action firearms, etc., etc., etc.).
If you read the article it would tell you the average amount....only an anarchist would think that there is no reason for the greater good of the country. So what if china attacked Hawaii would you just stay home cause not my problem #freedom4me. If we were at war would you complain about rationing supplies? Do you complain about the freedom to drive drunk? Freedom does not exist if you infringe on others freedoms. Firearms in the hand of a responsible owner will NEVER infringe on another persons rights. Driving drunk or spreading viruses might.
Post by: omnigun on November 22, 2020, 05:28:01 PM
Science is based on consensus...
Wonder what he believes about the laws of physics. Prob just guidelines and “settled” in courts...
The consensus believes in gravity, its documented and tested. If someone comes out saying gravity doesn't exist they have to prove it and then convince everyone to believe in what they say. That's how it works. Replace courts with scientific journals and community.
Post by: macsak on November 22, 2020, 05:31:52 PM
The consensus believes in gravity, its documented and tested. If someone comes out saying gravity doesn't exist they have to prove it and then convince everyone to believe in what they say. That's how it works. Replace courts with scientific journals and community.
yet you make a statement that we said the something was a "good way" and won't prove it...
Post by: drck1000 on November 22, 2020, 05:40:58 PM
The consensus believes in gravity, its documented and tested. If someone comes out saying gravity doesn't exist they have to prove it and then convince everyone to believe in what they say. That's how it works. Replace courts with scientific journals and community.
The primary criterion and standard of evaluation of scientific theory is evidence, not proof...
Post by: drck1000 on November 22, 2020, 05:41:50 PM
yet you make a statement that we said the something was a "good way" and won't prove it...Remember when someone got all butthurt about slander? Despite not even being slandered...
Yet he has no problems saying things about others as fact without backing it up...
Post by: omnigun on November 22, 2020, 05:42:13 PM
yet you make a statement that we said the something was a "good way" and won't prove it...
I think so, too, but it get's better. I stopped thinking a long time ago, even before election day, that there doesn't have to be fraud or tampering to the degree that it changed the outcome. If they can show that the election was in violation of the Constitution, then the electoral votes should not be accepted, and Congress should be tasked with choosing the President and VP. Trump's team has at least two Constitutional challenges as I see it.
One challenge would be the way the election rules were changed by the State Supreme Court or other office besides the legislature. The Constitution says that the rules of states' elections must be decided upon by the legislature. The founders did this precisely so the rules are set by the people through their representatives. Allowing any other body or individual to make the rules puts the outcome of the election at the whim of judges, Secretaries of State, Governors, unelected officials (elections directors), etc. None of those represent the people insofar as the Constitution recognizes them. We know PA courts changed the rules just days before election day, allowing additional time for mail-in ballots to arrive. Not their right to do that. Since the state also ignored Supreme Court injunctions to segregate the late ballots from the on-time ones, there's no way to correct that in the ballot count. The damage is irreversible.
Another challenge is the 14th Amendment's equal protection under the law. In 2000, the Bush legal team used this to successfully argue that elections must be conducted evenly and fairly among all presidential candidates and parties. In Florida, the recount was one-sided, allowing only counties that leaned heavily Democrat to be recounted. During the recount, ballots that were originally not included in vote totals by virtue of them having errors were being reexamined manually to ascertain what the voters' INTENTIONS were. If the ballot failed to be processed because they made stray marks, failed to punch "chads" completely, or didn't vote for the race at all because they were confused by the layout of the ballot ("Butterfly Ballots"), or voted for too many candidates in a race, the examiner would make a judgement call in the one race -- the Presidential race -- to decipher whether the voter "intended" to mark the ballot for Gore or Bush.
Since these formerly spoiled or unreadable ballots were being resurrected only in counties that might help Gore, the Supreme Court ruled that the recount must include ALL counties regardless of party "leanings", or the recount would be invalid. That decision came down just 2 hours before the deadline to certify the state election results. Obviously, a full Florida statewide recount was impossible in 2 hours, so the whole recount that took over a month's effort was halted and the results never used. The original numbers from before any recounts began were used, and Bush became the President Elect ... again!
This election, there are accusations that ballots which had errors in Democrat-leaning counties or precincts were being remedied by workers contacting the voters. If it was a mail-in (most were), then the mismatched or missing signature, missing date, miss-marked ballot, or other mistakes were corrected so the ballot would count. In Republican-leaning areas, the option to contact voters and correct ballots was not being offered as an option to the workers. Sounds awfully close to the same unequal treatment of ballots as happened in 2000. You can't spoil one party's ballots while correcting another party's.
There are all kinds of examples of how a few states, mainly PA, MI and WI, violated the Constitution as well as their own state laws. A big one is refusing to allow GOP observers in the counting areas. One party was allowed to run the counting (Democrat-run government) while the other party was excluded from observing and ensuring the rules were followed. Again, this sounds like a 14th Amendment violation. Can't give parties different treatment, even if (especially if) your party is running the state.
The best outcome for Trump would be for the Supreme Court to order the election be given to Congress to decide. Having an electoral college perform the selection of president would be unfair if they allowed a few swing states to certify tainted results, and the electoral votes wound be incomplete if they let fewer than 50 states meet in the electoral college. Giving it to Congress at least includes reps from all 50 states.
This is going to be an election for the history books, making 2016 look like a normal election by comparison.
Fun fact: Chief Justice John Roberts and Associate Justices Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett all worked on the Bush legal team that argued the Florida recount cases in Gore v. Bush. It's going to be pretty interesting to see lawyers for Trump standing before that group arguing nearly the same facts and Constitutional points of law that they themselves argued 20 years ago. :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
Happy? I do your homework for you. You can find the other posts yourself.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 22, 2020, 06:04:09 PM
Happy? I do your homework for you. You can find the other posts yourself.
Why are you pasting/quoting a wall of text from the Election Fraud Evidence thread to the COVID Vaccine in Hawaii thread?
Do you not know how to copy a LINK?
Do you not know how to DELETE EXTRANEOUS PARTS of a quote?
Do you not know how to STOP HIJACKING THREADS?
OMG! Do you have a clue how what you're doing is more annoying than Kamala Harris' cackle?
:stopjack:
Post by: macsak on November 22, 2020, 06:07:45 PM
Happy? I do your homework for you. You can find the other posts yourself.
it's your homework, you made the statement, you need to back it up
you said that members here said that it was a "good way" for trump to win, and that trump said it too
that's an article that explains how the process works...
edit-
sorry, my mistake
flapp wrote that post, i mistook it for an article...
Post by: macsak on November 22, 2020, 06:08:26 PM
The primary criterion and standard of evaluation of scientific theory is evidence, not proof...
i thought it was "pretty sure"...
Post by: punaperson on November 22, 2020, 06:08:41 PM
"Most" of the side effects are reportedly "mild and short-term."
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/uk-will-use-ai-tool-process-high-volume-expected-adverse-reactions
The British government is funding the development of an artificial intelligence tool to track and log what it anticipates will be a "high volume" of adverse reactions to the upcoming COVID-19 vaccine once it becomes widely distributed.
A "contract award notice" posted to the European Union public procurement tracker Tenders Electronic Daily states that the U.K.'s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency plans to deploy "an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool" to "process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs) and ensure that no details from the ADRs' reaction text are missed."
"It is not possible to retrofit the MHRA's legacy systems to handle the volume of ADRs that will be generated by a Covid-19 vaccine," the contract notice continues. "Therefore, if the MHRA does not implement the AI tool, it will be unable to process these ADRs effectively.
"This will hinder [the MHRA's] ability to rapidly identify any potential safety issues with the Covid-19 vaccine and represents a direct threat to patient life and public health."
(https://i.imgur.com/kQGdQID.png?1)
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 22, 2020, 06:10:19 PM
Happy? I do your homework for you. You can find the other posts yourself.
BTW, "GOOD" is not a synonym for "BEST."
I was referring to his best OUTCOME, not his best (or even a good) STRATEGY.
Improving your reading comprehension would be good.
This is like trying to teach a pig how to sing ...
Post by: punaperson on November 23, 2020, 07:01:41 AM
Portuguese Court Rules PCR Tests “Unreliable” & Quarantines “Unlawful”
https://off-guardian.org/2020/11/20/portuguese-court-rules-pcr-tests-unreliable-quarantines-unlawful/
Important legal decision faces total media blackout in Western world
An appeals court in Portugal has ruled that the PCR process is not a reliable test for Sars-Cov-2, and therefore any enforced quarantine based on those test results is unlawful.
Further, the ruling suggested that any forced quarantine applied to healthy people could be a violation of their fundamental right to liberty.
Most importantly, the judges ruled that a single positive PCR test cannot be used as an effective diagnosis of infection.
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 07:53:52 AM
Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 07:58:13 AM
Never mind! Taking a pauseOh come on! Nobody likes a quitter! :P ;D
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 08:02:20 AM
Oh come on! Nobody likes a quitter!Not quitting, trying not to let my mouth run 5 miles in front of my brain, as my grandfather would put it.;D
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Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 08:07:54 AM
The consensus believes in gravity, its documented and tested. If someone comes out saying gravity doesn't exist they have to prove it and then convince everyone to believe in what they say. That's how it works. Replace courts with scientific journals and community.You gotta give him credit to hanging in there. But to your point, hijacking here, along the lines of your reasoning. If the dems lied, cheat, fraud, and stole the election, you're saying we're conspiracy theorist and not giving repub a chance to prove it. Does it make sense?
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Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 08:10:29 AM
Not quitting, trying not to let my mouth run 5 miles in front of my brain, as my grandfather would put it.Ahh. Gotcha. Lots of that going around these days. Makes it entertaining at times. :rofl:
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You gotta give him credit to hanging in there. But to your point, hijacking here, along the lines of your reasoning. If the dems lied, cheat, fraud, and stole the election, you're saying we're conspiracy theorist and not giving repub a chance to prove it. Does it make sense?He is persistent. . .
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Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 08:29:01 AM
You gotta give him credit to hanging in there. But to your point, hijacking here, along the lines of your reasoning. If the dems lied, cheat, fraud, and stole the election, you're saying we're conspiracy theorist and not giving repub a chance to prove it. Does it make sense?
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Not what I am saying at all, you can try make your point without saying there IS fraud without proof. Screaming the election is stolen and dominion voting machines are changing votes and dead people are voting as if it was proven fact is wrong, because it wasn't proven. Say there might be fraud, lets get this investigated. Its much about how you say it. That being said so far there has been no court cases progressing with irrefutable proof yet. Georgia disproved dominion fraud. And people having been finding out dead people didn't even vote or are alive. Its not looking good for republican claims. Much like democrats wasted years trying to prove Russia got trump elected fraudulently and that was found to be false. This is looking to turn into another witchhunt. Right after republicans been accusing democrats of doing that they do it themselves?
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 08:31:26 AM
Not what I am saying at all, you can try make your point without saying there IS fraud without proof. Screaming the election is stolen and dominion voting machines are changing votes and dead people are voting as if it was proven fact is wrong, because it wasn't proven. Say there might be fraud, lets get this investigated. Its much about how you say it. That being said so far there has been no court cases progressing with irrefutable proof yet. Georgia disproved dominion fraud. And people having been finding out dead people didn't even vote or are alive. Its not looking good for republican claims. Much like democrats wasted years trying to prove Russia got trump elected fraudulently and that was found to be false. This is looking to turn into another witchhunt. Right after republicans been accusing democrats of doing that they do it themselves?Are you listening to yourself? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, what do you call it?
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Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 08:32:21 AM
Post by: punaperson on November 23, 2020, 08:34:40 AM
Not what I am saying at all, you can try make your point without saying there IS fraud without proof. Screaming the election is stolen and dominion voting machines are changing votes and dead people are voting as if it was proven fact is wrong, because it wasn't proven. Say there might be fraud, lets get this investigated. Its much about how you say it. That being said so far there has been no court cases progressing with irrefutable proof yet. Georgia disproved dominion fraud. And people having been finding out dead people didn't even vote or are alive. Its not looking good for republican claims. Much like democrats wasted years trying to prove Russia got trump elected fraudulently and that was found to be false. This is looking to turn into another witchhunt. Right after republicans been accusing democrats of doing that they do it themselves?Uh, this thread is titled " COVID Vaccine in Hawaii". Not one word you wrote above in that whole post has anything at all even vaguely to do with COVID in Hawaii. I guess you don't know where you are. No surprise.
:stopjack:
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 08:40:31 AM
Uh, this thread is titled " COVID Vaccine in Hawaii". Not one word you wrote above in that whole post has anything at all even vaguely to do with COVID in Hawaii. I guess you don't know where you are. No surprise.I apologize for that
:stopjack:
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Post by: punaperson on November 23, 2020, 08:43:53 AM
I apologize for thatMy comment specifically addressed omnigun, not you.
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Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 08:49:00 AM
I apologize for thatNo worries!
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I'll get things back on track a bit. . .
I think release of a COVID vaccine in HI will be a complete clusterfcuk, like everything else COVID related in HI. Supposedly Ed Case is "briefing" State lawmakers today on topic of COVID relief funding. Wonder what he'll have to say about the vaccine.
For vaccines, I'm really ??? in general. The whole anti-vax movement (I'm thinking the communities in Ore that I've read about). I can see both sides. Tough one.
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 08:58:53 AM
Don't you just hate him for that!
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Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 08:59:27 AM
My comment specifically addressed omnigun, not you.Yeah, but I started it.
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Post by: punaperson on November 23, 2020, 09:01:10 AM
Yeah, but I started it.Okay, well, you should stop that. He doesn't need any encouragement to go off topic.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on November 23, 2020, 09:22:57 AM
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 09:28:30 AM
Okay, well, you should stop that. He doesn't need any encouragement to go off topic.Well, I can't put him in his corner
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 23, 2020, 09:36:10 AM
The measure is set for a vote Tuesday.
This will probably not be the only place this happens.
Airlines, TicketMaster venues, and other similar big corporations are saying they will be requiring your vaccination status before they will sell you a ticket/let you in.
Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 09:39:09 AM
So now even while waiting for the test results to come in, it wont' count and you still have to quarantine even after a negative test comes in. The test result must come in before you land. Sounds like the HI government is doing all they can to stop tourism.How you gonna prove you're vaccinated? :hmm:
How about they clip your ear? Like they do with cats? :P
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 23, 2020, 09:42:10 AM
How you gonna prove you're vaccinated? :hmm:
How about they clip your ear? Like they do with cats? :P
Armband bro. Or like Flapp mentioned, RFID chip.
Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 09:51:43 AM
Armband bro. Or like Flapp mentioned, RFID chip.What if I forget my armband.
RFID capsule thingy like on Casino Royale?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 23, 2020, 10:01:09 AM
What if I forget my armband.
RFID capsule thingy like on Casino Royale?
In order for my ex to make it through airport metal detectors with a titanium knee, she carried a metallic prosthesis card. I can see healthcare providers issuing similar cards for vaccinations ... something akin to a wallet size shot record summary.
In the military, we had to carry our official shot record for deployments, and you really didn't want to forget it at home. If you didn't have it, you got ALL THE VACCINATIONS required for the region you're headed to again! And some of those require boosters, so you get those a month or so after you arrive.
Anyone heard what the immunity response timeframe is? After the vaccine is administered, how long before you are actually immune? If it's immediate (immunity is building as soon as injected), I can see vaccinations being offered at airports, schools, etc. for anyone without proof of vaccination. This might include a test and screening to see if you'r already infectious.
This brings to mind another question: is it safe to get the vaccine a month or two after already getting one?
And another one: how long does the protection provided by the vaccine last? Months, like a flu shot? If so, then the vaccine will be a recurring requirement every 6-12 months.
Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 10:09:53 AM
In order for my ex to make it through airport metal detectors with a titanium knee, she carried a metallic prosthesis card. I can see healthcare providers issuing similar cards for vaccinations ... something akin to a wallet size shot record summary.Oh yeah. My dad had one of those cards for the stents for his heart. An uncle had one for his pacemaker.
In the military, we had to carry our official shot record for deployments, and you really didn't want to forget it at home. If you didn't have it, you got ALL THE VACCINATIONS required for the region you're headed to again! And some of those require boosters, so you get those a month or so after you arrive.
Anyone heard what the immunity response timeframe is? After the vaccine is administered, how long before you are actually immune? If it's immediate (immunity is building as soon as injected), I can see vaccinations being offered at airports, schools, etc. for anyone without proof of vaccination. This might include a test and screening to see if you'r already infectious.
This brings to mind another question: is it safe to get the vaccine a month or two after already getting one?
And another one: how long does the protection provided by the vaccine last? Months, like a flu shot? If so, then the vaccine will be a recurring requirement every 6-12 months.
And for your questions, ask Dr. Green. He expert. :P
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 23, 2020, 10:39:33 AM
In the military, we had to carry our official shot record for deployments, and you really didn't want to forget it at home. If you didn't have it, you got ALL THE VACCINATIONS required for the region you're headed to again! And some of those require boosters, so you get those a month or so after you arrive.
This brings to mind another question: is it safe to get the vaccine a month or two after already getting one?
Was the peanut butter shot around back in your day?
And did you see Pearl Harbor movie, when Ben Affleck got more than 1 vaxxx.
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 10:50:54 AM
There's no conspiracy, dems not the only one's to say stupid s##t
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Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 10:52:38 AM
Courts throwing out lawsuits =/= disproven.
What is it then?
Post by: bass monkey on November 23, 2020, 10:54:12 AM
How you gonna prove you're vaccinated? :hmm:
How about they clip your ear? Like they do with cats? :P
I still got my MMR card for elementary school clearance
Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 10:55:31 AM
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 10:57:10 AM
Great way to get everyone vaccinated. Private companies have every right to make it a requirement. To prove all you need is paperwork. Back on my tinder days, that was a simple way to prove you or her had no STD's. There is a same vaccine requirement to attend school or college. Don't want to get vaccinated pick a school that doesn't require it. Don't want to get vaccinated don't come to Hawaii. All freedom of choices one can make. Since Hawaii's testing program has a bunch of holes this is much safer than testing before or after arrival. Should lessen the amount of sick people arriving.You really don't understand our constitution or the freedom of choice. Sounding more like a commie!
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Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 11:03:05 AM
You really don't understand our constitution or the freedom of choice. Sounding more like a commie!
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What? What did I say that goes against freedom? Corporations are people and private they can make any rule they want that is legal, including refusing service for any legal reason. Schools have been requiring vaccines for many many years. The key to freedom is to not have others have less of it to enhance your own. Also private freedom is different from public. I think in private anything goes as long as it doesn't effect others. Drugs, drinking, prostitution, suicide, have covid, it's your life and if it doesn't affect others you are free to do as you want. But if you hurt someone in the process of any of those things it's wrong.
I'm definitely not a commie lol.
Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 11:05:26 AM
Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 11:08:30 AM
You really don't understand our constitution or the freedom of choice. Sounding more like a commie!"Ainokea. I do what I like. And you no can do what I don't like."
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Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 11:10:23 AM
"Ainokea. I do what I like. And you no can do what I don't like."
Not even close. Do what you like if it doesn't effect others against their will.
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 11:17:30 AM
What? What did I say that goes against freedom? Corporations are people and private they can make any rule they want that is legal, including refusing service for any legal reason. Schools have been requiring vaccines for many many years. The key to freedom is to not have others have less of it to enhance your own. Also private freedom is different from public. I think in private anything goes as long as it doesn't effect others. Drugs, drinking, prostitution, suicide, have covid, it's your life and if it doesn't affect others you are free to do as you want. But if you hurt someone in the process of any of those things it's wrong.I didn't find private vs public freedom in the dictionary. You are very misguided. Freedom has been eroded away for centuries. At the very heart of the constitution is taxation without representation. How do you think President Trump got the vaccination so fast. He lifted the regulation that would have hampered it. I'm still praying to my God for you.
I'm definitely not a commie lol.
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Post by: punaperson on November 23, 2020, 11:20:16 AM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 23, 2020, 11:28:45 AM
Was the peanut butter shot around back in your day?
And did you see Pearl Harbor movie, when Ben Affleck got more than 1 vaxxx.
No. We got the Gamma globulin (GG) shot when I first had to get deployment/mobility immunizations. It does something similar, in that you get a really painful knot at the injection site that feels like a 2-3 inch round rock under the skin. Luckily, it was in the arm, not "in the butt, Bob." (Reference to The Newly Wed Game bloopers :rofl:)
The GG vaccine was replaced by the HEP A vaccine. It lasts longer, and protects against most of the same germs as GG. I have to look it up, but IIRC, if you get the HEP A "version" that requires a 6-month 1-time booster, it's a lifetime deal. GG, OTH, was a 1 year vaccine.
The sickest I ever got was from the Yellow Fever vaccine. They claimed they only gave it on a specific day each week (Fridays) because they had to have enough recipients to use up a vial. It can't be stored once it's opened, because it's a live virus.
My theory is they chose Friday so you suffer the symptoms the shot caused all weekend -- high fever, major aches, sleep all day, .... By Monday, I was okay to go to work -- no missed duty time! Bastards.
Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 11:34:06 AM
Quote
Dismissal
Civil Proceedings
Rules embodied in state codes of CIVIL PROCEDURE and the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure govern the granting of dismissals in civil actions brought in state and federal courts. The primary function of a dismissal is to promote the speedy and efficient administration of justice by removing from the consideration of a court any matters that have been unnecessarily delayed to the disadvantage of the defendant.
It does NOT prove anything. . . Simply that the court dismissed the lawsuit/case. . . Failure to meet burden of proof or even other reasons for dismissal does not prove something didn't happen. . .
Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 11:35:42 AM
Don't want to be prohibited from keeping many varieties of firearms or bearing firearms, don't come to Hawaii.
If Hawaii had no population prior and was private land and not a state that would work. But prohibiting currently owned items and rights on public and private land goes against the Constitution. Now if you wanted your house to be a gun free zone that's perfectly fine. It's not a public square and private property. No one but you has say on the rules assuming they are legal.
Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 11:36:41 AM
It does NOT prove anything. . . Simply that the court dismissed the lawsuit/case. . . Failure to meet burden of proof or even other reasons for dismissal does not prove something didn't happen. . .
True. But this says alot on the quality of evidence and the possibility of a crime.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 23, 2020, 11:38:19 AM
I didn't find private vs public freedom in the dictionary. You are very misguided. Freedom has been eroded away for centuries. At the very heart of the constitution is taxation without representation. How do you think President Trump got the vaccination so fast. He lifted the regulation that would have hampered it. I'm still praying to my God for you.
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What he doesn't get is, being forced to choose between employment and a free choice is NOT a free choice.
"You can work somewhere else." How is that NOT taking away your freedom to work there if the condition of employment is forced vaccination? That's like saying you have the freedom to seek mental health services, but if you do, we take you guns. How many people who might benefit from counseling are unwilling to give up their right to bear arms?
You can't make a choice contingent on giving up a right and call it "freedom to choose."
What if we make abortions contingent on giving up the right to work in a daycare center? After 25 years as a caregiver, should the woman be forced to choose between carrying to term or being fired from her career for life?
Extreme example, but still illustrates how you can't FORCE someone to make a choice between their ability to work somewhere and their right to refuse vaccination.
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 23, 2020, 11:46:29 AM
What? What did I say that goes against freedom?
I'm definitely not a commie lol.
There is a part in the constitution about traveling freely between states. 1 could argue that you can still come to HI, you just can't leave your room. Like how you can own a pistol in HI, just can't have a magazine holding more than 10 rds. Or you can buy a pistol in HI, but first you have to take a class, then make 3 trips to HPD, etc...
"I'm definitely not a commie lol. " is exactly what a commie would say. :rofl: But on a serious note, the way you think for other issues besides the 2a and abortion is pretty much communism.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 23, 2020, 11:48:25 AM
It does NOT prove anything. . . Simply that the court dismissed the lawsuit/case. . . Failure to meet burden of proof or even other reasons for dismissal does not prove something didn't happen. . .
Yep.
Sometimes cases are dismissed for technicalities: wrong jurisdiction, no standing to bring an action, premature (can't claim a rigged election result until the results are officially certified), etc.
You don't have to watch very many episodes of Law & Order, Perry Mason or any other lawyer show to learn that "not guilty" is IN NO WAY a synonym for "innocent."
Same for a dismissed civil case. There may have been no ruling in favor of either party. If it was dismissed without prejudice, it can be refiled again. If it was dismissed with prejudice, that usually means the judge found the case lacked merit and there WAS a judgement rendered (assume in favor of the defendant).
I believe/feel/guess/assume if the judge had come down on the defendant's side, the MSM would have found 100 ways to say that. I haven't read that as of yet.
I don't intend to do the research for OMiGod. If he can find if the cases he wants to say lacked merit and were dismissed with prejudice, he needs to link to those facts.
Most of these cases can be found online with the official court documents. No need to post MSM biased reports of the proceedings.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 23, 2020, 11:49:36 AM
True. But this says alot on the quality of evidence and the possibility of a crime.
Since when are CIVIL suits used to charge anyone with a CRIME?
:wacko: :wtf:
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 23, 2020, 11:52:40 AM
Yep.
Sometimes cases are dismissed for technicalities: wrong jurisdiction, no standing to bring an action, premature (can't claim a rigged election result until the results are officially certified), etc.
You don't have to watch very many episodes of Law & Order, Perry Mason or any other lawyer show to learn that "not guilty" is IN NO WAY a synonym for "innocent."
Same for a dismissed civil case. There may have been no ruling in favor of either party. If it was dismissed without prejudice, it can be refiled again. If it was dismissed with prejudice, that usually means the judge found the case lacked merit and there WAS a judgement rendered (assume in favor of the defendant).
I believe/feel/guess/assume if the judge had come down on the defendant's side, the MSM would have found 100 ways to say that. I haven't read that as of yet.
I don't intend to do the research for OMiGod. If he can find if the cases he wants to say lacked merit and were dismissed with prejudice, he needs to link to those facts.
Most of these cases can be found online with the official court documents. No need to post MSM biased reports of the proceedings.
Hitler was never convicted of a crime. Guess in Omni's logic, he is innocent of ordering the murder of millions of jews.
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 12:25:49 PM
I didn't find private vs public freedom in the dictionary. You are very misguided. Freedom has been eroded away for centuries. At the very heart of the constitution is taxation without representation. How do you think President Trump got the vaccination so fast. He lifted the regulation that would have hampered it. I'm still praying to my God for you.Can we write into the constitution vaccination without representation. But what do I know
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Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 12:53:04 PM
Yep.Technicalities was another one. Statues of limitations, wrong jurisdiction, etc. He's got a twisted sense of reality. Making up his own sense of truth.
Sometimes cases are dismissed for technicalities: wrong jurisdiction, no standing to bring an action, premature (can't claim a rigged election result until the results are officially certified), etc.
You don't have to watch very many episodes of Law & Order, Perry Mason or any other lawyer show to learn that "not guilty" is IN NO WAY a synonym for "innocent."
Same for a dismissed civil case. There may have been no ruling in favor of either party. If it was dismissed without prejudice, it can be refiled again. If it was dismissed with prejudice, that usually means the judge found the case lacked merit and there WAS a judgement rendered (assume in favor of the defendant).
I believe/feel/guess/assume if the judge had come down on the defendant's side, the MSM would have found 100 ways to say that. I haven't read that as of yet.
I don't intend to do the research for OMiGod. If he can find if the cases he wants to say lacked merit and were dismissed with prejudice, he needs to link to those facts.
Most of these cases can be found online with the official court documents. No need to post MSM biased reports of the proceedings.
Dunno. Maybe he's the uber genius and we've got things twisted. . .
Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 12:54:04 PM
Hitler was never convicted of a crime. Guess in Omni's logic, he is innocent of ordering the murder of millions of jews.No proof. . . it was Himmler. . .
Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 01:04:55 PM
There is a part in the constitution about traveling freely between states. 1 could argue that you can still come to HI, you just can't leave your room. Like how you can own a pistol in HI, just can't have a magazine holding more than 10 rds. Or you can buy a pistol in HI, but first you have to take a class, then make 3 trips to HPD, etc...
"I'm definitely not a commie lol. " is exactly what a commie would say. :rofl: But on a serious note, the way you think for other issues besides the 2a and abortion is pretty much communism.
Really? Do you have any examples?
Don't think assisted suicide, prostitution, drugs, PRIVACY, free speech (including hate), small government, less social programs, restrictive immigration, low taxes are exactly communism principles O_o
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 01:06:29 PM
Really? Do you have any examples?Maybe you should try to read the constitution in full. You do live in the USA?
Don't think assisted suicide, prostitution, drugs, PRIVACY, free speech (including hate), small government, less social programs, restrictive immigration, low taxes are exactly communism principles O_o
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Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 01:08:26 PM
Maybe you should try to read it full. You do live in the USA?If you (or anyone) has ever ordered from Larue, you should have a copy. I think my order came with multiple copies a few times. If anyone wants a copy, I got extra. :thumbsup:
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Of the Constitution for the US of A that is. . .
Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 01:14:02 PM
If you (or anyone) has ever ordered from Larue, you should have a copy. I think my order came with multiple copies a few times. If anyone wants a copy, I got extra. :thumbsup:
Of the Constitution for the US of A that is. . .
Funny you say that I have that little booklet too.
Maybe you should try to read the constitution in full. You do live in the USA?
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Yes? I mean how do I 2a if I wasn't...
Don't think the Constitution defines communism.
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 01:15:34 PM
Funny you say that I have that little booklet too.Maybe you should read and meditate on it.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on November 23, 2020, 01:39:22 PM
Really? Do you have any examples?
Don't think assisted suicide, prostitution, drugs, PRIVACY, free speech (including hate), small government, less social programs, restrictive immigration, low taxes are exactly communism principles O_o
Forcing a vaccine on someone is pretty commie. Telling someone they cannot come into 1 of the 50 states is pretty commie. Removing lower taxes and wanting higher taxes is pretty commie.
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 01:49:28 PM
Funny you say that I have that little booklet too.You gotta stop reading the communist manifesto, I mean the Democratic platform
Yes? I mean how do I 2a if I wasn't...
Don't think the Constitution defines communism.
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Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 02:32:57 PM
Forcing a vaccine on someone is pretty commie. Telling someone they cannot come into 1 of the 50 states is pretty commie. Removing lower taxes and wanting higher taxes is pretty commie.
Don't want higher taxes, I want smaller government so we can lower taxes, but it still scaled as the rich pay more. But in our current debt, higher taxes are a must to pay of said debt in conjunction to shrinking government. As for the other two with vaccines, it isnt exactly forced but I get that its pretty close. And about the states you are technically correct. Some of my ideals might be more towards that. But to say I am completely is a different matter, a majority of my ideals are not "commie". The downsides of being independent. I never believe in all or nothing. Dictators believe in strong military. So do I, does this mean I am automatically a fascist? No, everyone believes in different ideals that normally cover a wide range of politics. Even probably yourself. There's no way you are 100% republican (assuming).
You gotta stop reading the communist manifesto, I mean the Democratic platform
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Not a democrat see above, but I do believe in some democrat policies, just like I believe in some republican policies.
Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2020, 02:37:33 PM
What do you think of Ltg Green? And his involvement in "leading" the vaccine efforts for HI?
???
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 23, 2020, 02:37:43 PM
Don't want higher taxes, I want smaller government so we can lower taxes, but it still scaled as the rich pay more. But in our current debt, higher taxes are a must to pay of said debt in conjunction to shrinking government. As for the other two with vaccines, it isnt exactly forced but I get that its pretty close. And about the states you are technically correct. Some of my ideals might be more towards that. But to say I am completely is a different matter, a majority of my ideals are not "commie". The downsides of being independent. I never believe in all or nothing. Dictators believe in strong military. So do I, does this mean I am automatically a fascist? No, everyone believes in different ideals that normally cover a wide range of politics. Even probably yourself. There's no way you are 100% republican (assuming).I did see the above, guess what? You still espouse commie manifesto
Not a democrat see above, but I do believe in some democrat policies, just like I believe in some republican policies.
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Post by: omnigun on November 23, 2020, 02:42:34 PM
Ok, I got one for you OG. Getting back on topic, sorta. . .
What do you think of Ltg Green? And his involvement in "leading" the vaccine efforts for HI?
???
He is mostly talk, a little hypocritical and not the best. But he isn't like utterly bad either. Not sure what other options we have. Don't really monitor everything he does or says. Just gotta hope he gets the job done and Hawaii the vaccines it needs.