Post by: punaperson on December 18, 2020, 06:36:57 PM
https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/atf-decision-could-lead-to-biggest-gun-registration-turn-in-effort-in-american-history/
ATF Decision Could Lead to Biggest Gun Registration, Turn-in Effort in American History
Agency's vague AR-15 pistol standards could affect millions
New guidance from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) could put millions of Americans in legal jeopardy.
The ATF published a notice Thursday that could require millions of AR-15 pistols and similar firearms—which are designed with braces that strap on to a shooter's forearm—to be either registered, turned in, destroyed, or dismantled. But the standards laid out for determining the devices' legality, such as caliber or weight, provide no objective measures, and the agency said it may also use undisclosed factors to judge the legality of the devices.
The agency conceded in the notice that some pistol braces are legal and should not be subject to the registration or destruction requirement. It said, however, that it could not provide a blanket determination for which pistols, or braces with which they're often equipped, are legal and said it would have to examine each gun "on a case-by-case basis." That means owners of the vast majority of the estimated three to four million AR-15 pistols and similar firearms may have to register with the ATF.
Second Amendment advocates were up in arms over the proposed rule, saying the uncertain legal status could destroy several businesses that make pistol braces and harm the gun industry. Erich Pratt, senior vice president of Gun Owners of America (GOA), said the subjective nature of the guidance shows that the "ATF has gone off into the deep end."
"GOA will rally the grassroots to fight these regulations, and if they eventually go into effect, we will commence immediate legal action to protect gun owners," Pratt said in a statement.
The controversy stems from how federal law distinguishes between short-barrel rifles and shotguns, both of which must be registered and require a $200 tax stamp, and pistols that do not require either. The key component is whether a firearm is designed to be pressed against the shooter's shoulder. Since 2012, the ATF has classified several guns with braces designed to strap to a shooter's forearm as pistols. The agency's Boston field office called that interpretation into question in August after sending a cease and desist letter to one manufacturer. The agency ordered a review in October following intervention from the White House.
Neither the ATF nor the White House responded to a request for comment.
The notice said the agency plans to waive the $200 tax for those registering the affected firearms during a grace period to be announced later. The public has two weeks to offer comment on the ATF notice before it goes into effect.
Post by: Gordyf on December 18, 2020, 07:37:13 PM
Post by: punaperson on December 18, 2020, 08:37:09 PM
And the NRA Sayeth ???Send us more money pronto, Wayne needs more of those $5,000 suits.
No, but seriously...
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20201217/nra-statement-on-the-atf-s-recent-actions
By completely changing course on earlier decisions, BATFE has signaled that it is ready and eager to collaborate with Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and other gun control extremists to infringe on our Second Amendment rights. The NRA will fight these aggressive anti-gun actions on pistol stabilizing braces and Polymer80. Gun owners know elections have consequences. This is why we must all fight to protect the pro-gun Senate majority in the run-off races in Georgia.
Post by: ren on December 18, 2020, 08:42:13 PM
Post by: punaperson on December 18, 2020, 09:04:59 PM
are more crimes committed with Ar pistol braces?If it saves just one life!
For the children!
Post by: hvybarrels on December 18, 2020, 09:17:31 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on December 18, 2020, 09:18:37 PM
Post by: Bota-CS1 on December 18, 2020, 10:01:47 PM
Post by: groveler on December 19, 2020, 08:12:38 AM
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/12/16/when-deplorables-become-ungovernables/"Another Deep State source, now retired, adds that, “the U.S. Army does not want to intervene as their soldiers may not obey orders."
Ever since the Mi Lai massacre we were taught that if a order violated your morals,
don't follow it. A few years for disobeying a lawful order is better than a life imprisonment
for murder and crimes against humanity.
Did you every hear of someone being prosecuted for "Fragging"
a superior?
I never did.
NCO's are the backbone of the military. As a group, we never
accepted Liberal BS and PC think that officers shoveled out.
My family which is a mix of NCOs and one officer can attest to that.
Post by: macsak on December 19, 2020, 08:24:59 AM
They came for the bump stocks first, then the braces. Just the other week, it was Polymer80, and just yesterday Defense Distributed. It was NEVER about just the bump stocks. I'd urge everyone to contribute to their favorite national gun rights group, GOA, FPC, even to the NRA(puke).
it won't happen unless the dems get control of the senate...
Post by: QUIETShooter on December 19, 2020, 09:32:38 AM
Post by: omnigun on December 19, 2020, 09:45:28 AM
This is what happens when you have shitty NFA laws. Remember Trump is still president and this is happening now.
Post by: 6716J on December 19, 2020, 10:02:30 AM
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Post by: hvybarrels on December 19, 2020, 10:04:10 AM
Government is never your friend. Period.
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The Useless Government Employees Association begs to differ.
Post by: punaperson on December 19, 2020, 10:07:32 AM
Gun grab sparks 'Defund ATF' movement
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/gun-grab-sparks-defund-atf-movement
They are the strongest opponents of defunding the police, but now, conservatives are carving out an exception — the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.
Long considered anti-gun, the agency has provoked alarm with Second Amendment advocates due to the agency’s recent targeting of gunmakers, including a raid this month on a producer of so-called "ghost guns" and this week’s targeting of AR-15-style pistols.
With President-elect Joe Biden poised to unleash new gun control measures, fears are heightened that ATF will be the tip of the spear.
(https://i.imgur.com/VI5zuBk.png)
To fight that, some conservatives are now calling for the defunding of the ATF. Outspoken gun advocate Rep.-elect Marjorie Taylor Greene has put the agency in her crosshairs.
“The ATF is trying to shut down American companies and put good people out of work. Not only is this an attack on small businesses, but the Constitution itself,” she told us, adding, “I’m headed to D.C. to cut government, not expand it, and the ATF is at the top of my list.”
Gun Owners of America Senior Vice President Erich Pratt said that the agency’s move this week to consider outlawing some AR pistols after endorsing them for years demands scrutiny.
(https://i.imgur.com/WpIVvxX.png)
“This ATF is simply out of control,” Pratt said. “This agency — which shouldn’t exist in the first place — is not held accountable for its actions, and honest gun owners who are being turned into criminals are paying the price.”
Post by: 6716J on December 19, 2020, 10:20:03 AM
Sure, lots of good old boys will say fuck it, I don't care. They will when they look a 20 years mandatory. No parole. Thats how Federal time works. And it will only take one example for everyone else to get in line.
This is the new Biden Harris agenda.
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Post by: punaperson on December 19, 2020, 10:58:59 AM
Another point not made so far anywhere I've read is that once you've gotten your "free" tax stamp for your now NFA REGISTERED firearm, you can never travel with it. It is forever tied to the address of registration. Meaning for example if you lived in El Paso Texas and wanted to go shooting at the range just over in Arizona, you can't. If you do, you're now a Federal firearms felon if they catch you. And the alphabet bois will start putting agents everywhere. Or get local LEO to just ask where your stamp is. Because by law you have to have it with the firearm.Well, yeah, but think of how much safer the children are.
Sure, lots of good old boys will say fuck it, I don't care. They will when they look a 20 years mandatory. No parole. Thats how Federal time works. And it will only take one example for everyone else to get in line.
This is the new Biden Harris agenda.
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Post by: Bota-CS1 on December 19, 2020, 12:25:59 PM
it won't happen unless the dems get control of the senate...
Republicans had control of the Senate and *poof* there went bump stocks because they were classified as machine guns :wacko: It’s a nibble you to death strategy. BATFE has posted their proposed rule change for public comment. I’d urge everyone who is willing to submit written testimony about this rule change:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/18/2020-27857/objective-factors-for-classifying-weapons-with-stabilizing-braces (https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/12/18/2020-27857/objective-factors-for-classifying-weapons-with-stabilizing-braces)
Post by: ren on December 19, 2020, 01:11:05 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 19, 2020, 06:09:03 PM
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Post by: Bota-CS1 on December 22, 2020, 08:23:50 AM
Post by: Bota-CS1 on December 22, 2020, 09:13:36 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 22, 2020, 09:27:16 AM
On the bright side, if you register you can put a normal stock on it right?
Partially true, but that's not the point. What if they go with adjustable stocks next at the fed level? Many said bump stocks don't matter cause they don't own one . That isn't the point. Now they're going after braces and then P80's. People keep giving inches because it doesn't apply to them. The bigger picture is the cause.
Just wait till this legislative session in HI. I'm sure we will see a brace bill, maybe even an adjustable stock bill. Not to mention the rifle mag bill again.
I don't own any of the items the ATF are going after, but will submit for the cause.
Post by: drck1000 on December 22, 2020, 09:41:31 AM
Partially true, but that's not the point. What if they go with adjustable stocks next at the fed level? Many said bump stocks don't matter cause they don't own one . That isn't the point. Now they're going after braces and then P80's. People keep giving inches because it doesn't apply to them. The bigger picture is the cause.Well, because braces are functionally so significant that they are a risk to the public.
Just wait till this legislative session in HI. I'm sure we will see a brace bill, maybe even an adjustable stock bill. Not to mention the rifle mag bill again.
I don't own any of the items the ATF are going after, but will submit for the cause.
Bet many of the folks pushing this crap don't even know what a brace is.
Post by: Bota-CS1 on December 22, 2020, 11:20:05 AM
On the bright side, if you register you can put a normal stock on it right?
This is what happens when you have shitty NFA laws. Remember Trump is still president and this is happening now.
Only AFTER the ATF makes you wait a few months or more to approve your Form 1. Oh and you’ll be out $200 for your trouble too.
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 22, 2020, 11:41:45 AM
Only AFTER the ATF makes you wait a few months or more to approve your Form 1. Oh and you’ll be out $200 for your trouble too.
Don't forget, you won't be able to cross state lines, even if that state is legal to have NFA type items.
Post by: omnigun on December 22, 2020, 01:10:31 PM
Only AFTER the ATF makes you wait a few months or more to approve your Form 1. Oh and you’ll be out $200 for your trouble too.
They said they would make it free for retro.
Post by: Bota-CS1 on December 22, 2020, 02:20:57 PM
They said they would make it free for retro.
If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in.
Post by: 6716J on December 22, 2020, 02:25:26 PM
They said they would make it free for retro.
If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in.
Oh, they'll make it free. And now they have a National Gun registration that barely skirts the law of not having one
Post by: Bota-CS1 on December 22, 2020, 02:28:33 PM
Oh, they'll make it free. And now they have a National Gun registration that barely skirts the law of not having one
Yeah - it’s in the title of the post so....🤷🏻♂️?
Post by: omnigun on December 22, 2020, 03:19:14 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/us/ex-atf-agent-ar-15/index.html
Post by: ren on December 22, 2020, 03:38:17 PM
Post by: 6716J on December 23, 2020, 07:21:37 AM
Its okay the ATF might not be able to regulate ar-15s
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/us/ex-atf-agent-ar-15/index.html
The definition used pretty much covers every semi-auto handgun also. The frame just has the trigger mechanism. The slide has the firing pin, "breech face" and barrel.
Sadly this will go nowhere. The government will settle these suits to keep putting those without money in jail
Post by: Bota-CS1 on December 23, 2020, 08:20:35 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 23, 2020, 09:11:40 AM
Post by: Bota-CS1 on December 23, 2020, 02:16:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wdX9396.jpg)
Post by: aletheuo137 on December 23, 2020, 02:49:25 PM
Post by: drck1000 on December 23, 2020, 04:00:22 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 23, 2020, 04:15:00 PM
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Post by: aletheuo137 on December 23, 2020, 06:53:37 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201224/52fc88cde336f0b5426d2f7c9bc87b7c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201224/cb6e7d6099593820c642f2b579b0b392.jpg)Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: punaperson on December 24, 2020, 04:43:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/98IyE7C.png)
Post by: punaperson on December 24, 2020, 04:46:26 PM
Wait, stop the presses, I can't believe that neither Case nor Tulsi signed it. Must be a typo. I mean, Tulsi is so cool, right?
(https://i.imgur.com/hTn4FGZ.png?1)
Post by: Bota-CS1 on December 24, 2020, 05:41:00 PM
Letter from numerous Representatives re their opposition the ATF proposal.
Wait, stop the presses, I can't believe that neither Case nor Tulsi signed it. Must be a typo. I mean, Tulsi is so cool, right?
Dude.....she’s fuckin’ weird.
Post by: ren on December 24, 2020, 06:51:02 PM
Dude.....she’s fuckin’ weird.
I would...
Post by: QUIETShooter on December 24, 2020, 06:58:33 PM
Dude.....she’s fuckin’ weird.
Yes. Interestingly so.
I would...
Me too. I think. ;)
Post by: aletheuo137 on December 28, 2020, 08:24:00 AM
https://youtu.be/sR3pLZOPB-c
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