Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 18, 2021, 03:56:04 PM
Quote
International Sportsman obtained a letter to dealers from Vista Outdoor President Jason Vanderbrink,
which announces a price increase on Federal, Remington, CCI, and Speer ammunition of 3-15 percent.
We have reached out to Vista Outdoor to confirm. You can read the letter below:
Quote
Dear Customer:
Thank you for your business and for your continued support of American manufacturing.
We have hired hundreds of people over the last 12 months and invested millions of dollars
to produce more ammunition to meet our customer and consumer needs. During this year
we have seen significant increases in raw material prices such as copper, zinc, and lead.
Additionally, increases in labor and health care have exceeded our projections as the COVID-19
pandemic has affected us all.
Effective 4/1/2021 Federal, Remington, CCI, and SPEER ammunition will take a price
increase of 3-15% across all products from our last price list. Unless you notify us to
cancel an order, we will reprice all existing and future orders shipped on or after 4/1/2021 to the
new 4/1 prices.
You will receive your finalized price list no later than February 19th.
Thank you for your continued support of our brands and our American workforce.
Jason R. Vanderbrink
President Ammunition
https://www.internationalsportsman.com/2021-ammo-price-increases-federal-cci-speer-remington/
Post by: justin1098 on January 18, 2021, 06:36:15 PM
All my hobbies are like this.
Can't get bicycles and accessories
Can't get a graphics card
Can't get a video game console
can get toilet paper
Post by: ren on January 18, 2021, 06:37:08 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 18, 2021, 06:55:57 PM
Unconfirmed, but IMO not unexpected, plans for ammo makers to increase prices...
https://www.internationalsportsman.com/2021-ammo-price-increases-federal-cci-speer-remington/
Thanks for sharing this. At least all will have an idea of ammo prices going forward. I plan to buy when I can and shoot half.
Post by: robtmc on January 18, 2021, 07:05:25 PM
A price bump sucketh, but as long as moderate, far better than an outright shortage.
Post by: macsak on January 18, 2021, 07:22:55 PM
Just keep the ammo inventory up.
A price bump sucketh, but as long as moderate, far better than an outright shortage.
good thing i own no firearms, ammo, nor reloading components...
Post by: aieahound on January 18, 2021, 07:31:51 PM
and the classifieds are out of control!!! :rofl:
I can deal with the 3-15% bump if ammo is readily available.
That’s still way better than most of the current classified prices. :wacko:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 18, 2021, 08:11:03 PM
I found several places with .45ACP prices, and the spectrum was $0.38 - $1.30 per round. Of course, that isn't displaying the variances in price between high-end HD ammo and low-end range ammo.
I found Brownell's selling the same ammo I listed tonight at $0.63/rd. I fudged that up using a WAG for Hawaii shipping, HAZMAT, tax, current supply & demand, etc., and settled on an asking price of $0.70/rd. That includes the ammo can and reusable desiccant pack. Asking prices are always negotiable. My price is only $70/1000rds more than the base price at Brownell's and includes extras.
Lastly, I didn't want to price it so low that someone snags a great deal only to turn around and resell it a month later for even more $$$. That's worse for the shooters who really need ammo.
I try not to disparage other's prices. Maybe they are gouging, or maybe they just found another gouging price and thought that's what the market is paying now. I have to say, after checking Gun Broker's prices, I'm going to be listing some of my "excess" arms soon. :thumbsup:
Post by: 6716J on January 18, 2021, 08:30:17 PM
Not all prices in the classifieds are that crazy if you check other sources. I spent a lot of time trying to get a handle on what a reasonable price would be for .45ACP.
I found several places with .45ACP prices, and the spectrum was $0.38 - $1.30 per round. Of course, that isn't displaying the variances in price between high-end HD ammo and low-end range ammo.
I found Brownell's selling the same ammo I listed tonight at $0.63/rd. I fudged that up using a WAG for Hawaii shipping, HAZMAT, tax, current supply & demand, etc., and settled on an asking price of $0.70/rd. That includes the ammo can and reusable desiccant pack. Asking prices are always negotiable. My price is only $70/1000rds more than the base price at Brownell's and includes extras.
I'll take some of that $70/1000 rounds stuff
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Post by: hvybarrels on January 18, 2021, 08:33:11 PM
Not surprised. I would just be happy to be able to buy what I need.
All my hobbies are like this.
Can't get bicycles and accessories
Can't get a graphics card
Can't get a video game console
can get toilet paper
There is a long wait for custom surfboards at the moment because of a blank shortage.
Post by: ren on January 18, 2021, 08:35:22 PM
Not all prices in the classifieds are that crazy if you check other sources. I spent a lot of time trying to get a handle on what a reasonable price would be for .45ACP.
I found several places with .45ACP prices, and the spectrum was $0.38 - $1.30 per round. Of course, that isn't displaying the variances in price between high-end HD ammo and low-end range ammo.
I found Brownell's selling the same ammo I listed tonight at $0.63/rd. I fudged that up using a WAG for Hawaii shipping, HAZMAT, tax, current supply & demand, etc., and settled on an asking price of $0.70/rd. That includes the ammo can and reusable desiccant pack. Asking prices are always negotiable. My price is only $70/1000rds more than the base price at Brownell's and includes extras.
Lastly, I didn't want to price it so low that someone snags a great deal only to turn around and resell it a month later for even more $$$. That's worse for the shooters who really need ammo.
I try not to disparage other's prices. Maybe they are gouging, or maybe they just found another gouging price and thought that's what the market is paying now. I have to say, after checking Gun Broker's prices, I'm going to be listing some of my "excess" arms soon. :thumbsup:
I was just trying to do a Garand Thumb spin on things. :shaka: I paid over $100 on shipping alone just for a case of .22 :(
Post by: aieahound on January 18, 2021, 09:02:59 PM
And surf breaks are ridiculously crowded nowadays at popular spots and loaded with dangerous newbies.
Never saw so many wavestorms in my life.
Yeah I saw your ad Flapp and was shocked it was close to reasonably priced. :thumbsup: Especially with what the current local market will apparently bear. (In this market, I’d pay $.70 a round for .45 ACP.)
But 7.62x39 and 5.56 at dollar a round in some adds ? $100 for a brick of .22 in some ads.
But what the heck, people are buying it up. Might as well get while the gettin’ is good.
I was just saying that I can live with the 3-15% hike if the gun stores are filled with reasonably priced ammo.
Better nominal price hike and increased production and availability than the ammo shortage we’re currently in which creates crazy market pricing.
I know distributors are jacking prices right now due to the shortage and lack of availability.
Gun shops currently have to pass on distributor pricing with their normal mark up, if they can get the popular calibers.
For some people, the classifieds are currently the only place they can find them.
And not trying to disparage anyone.
P.S.
and God forbid, wait until Biden and Congress hit us with a new ammo tax as a back door “gun control” measure in the name of public health or some other nonsense.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 18, 2021, 09:37:18 PM
I'll take some of that $70/1000 rounds stuff
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You must have me confused with that OTHER IT expert! :shaka:
Post by: ren on January 18, 2021, 10:02:38 PM
You must have me confused with that OTHER IT expert! :shaka:
you accept Venmo out of Africa?
Post by: jfrasher on January 18, 2021, 10:23:38 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 18, 2021, 11:50:25 PM
you accept Venmo out of Africa?
I'll have my Barrister from Nigeria contact you ...
O0
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 19, 2021, 06:15:41 AM
Post by: 6716J on January 19, 2021, 07:17:35 AM
yeah, a gov't tax on ammunition by biden and kamala on top of the price hike by manufacturers is what I am concerned about.
I'm sure it will be reasonable and not a burden at all. Just at 100% per round. It's for the children.
Post by: zippz on January 19, 2021, 10:25:08 AM
yeah, a gov't tax on ammunition by biden and kamala on top of the price hike by manufacturers is what I am concerned about.
There's currently a 11% federal tax on ammo that goes towards hunting and range programs, I suppose that's how it's justified. However a large federal tax meant to discourage purchases that doesn't go back towards shooting programs would be found unconstitutional.
They could pull off a large tariff on ammo imports or just ban it entirely which would cause ammo prices to skyrocket.
Post by: 6716J on January 19, 2021, 10:48:13 AM
There's currently a 11% federal tax on ammo that goes towards hunting and range programs, I suppose that's how it's justified. However a large federal tax meant to discourage purchases that doesn't go back towards shooting programs would be found unconstitutional.
They could pull off a large tariff on ammo imports or just ban it entirely which would cause ammo prices to skyrocket.
you mean like cigarette taxes?....
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 19, 2021, 01:11:40 PM
There's currently a 11% federal tax on ammo that goes towards hunting and range programs, I suppose that's how it's justified. However a large federal tax meant to discourage purchases that doesn't go back towards shooting programs would be found unconstitutional.
They could pull off a large tariff on ammo imports or just ban it entirely which would cause ammo prices to skyrocket.
I just feel they will propose some weird shit to justify the federal tax. May be unconstitutional but that haven't stopped them from trying, or maybe even being successful probably in some cases.
I don't however, have any evidence to back up my claim.
Post by: drck1000 on January 19, 2021, 01:18:00 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 19, 2021, 01:35:24 PM
you mean like cigarette taxes?....
That's the irony/idiocy of gov't.
With one hand they were subsidizing the tobacco companies, and with the other they were taxing them so customers would stop using tobacco products.
Through a combination of high prices via taxes and educational programs funded by the taxes, the goal was to put big tobacco out of business.
I expect to see this tactic used for firearms, ammo, accessories, training classes, .... anything to increase prices so the people who need self protection the most will be the least able to afford it.
Post by: stangzilla on January 21, 2021, 10:18:29 AM
Post by: RSN172 on January 21, 2021, 10:45:54 AM
BTW, KGS was selling 22LR 36 GR HP for $80 a brick. Also sold out.
Post by: aieahound on January 21, 2021, 01:10:17 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 21, 2021, 01:15:49 PM
Sure makes classified prices look better.
shhhhh. Don't say that.
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 21, 2021, 01:28:39 PM
https://youtu.be/E5zNNk130V0
I hope they're looking at expanding. With BIden as pres, ammo shortage aint gonna end anytime soon and it's already been 10 months so far since it began.
Post by: Inspector on January 21, 2021, 01:44:30 PM
I hope they're looking at expanding. With BIden as pres, ammo shortage aint gonna end anytime soon and it's already been 10 months so far since it began.I’m no expert. But I read that during the last ammo shortage, the ammo manufacturers bought new equipment, expanded their footprint and hired new employees. By the time they got everything up and running the ammo shortage was slowing and within a few months demand diminished and they caught up and prices went lower. They made this huge investment in equipment, footprint and employees and the shortage didn’t last long enough for them to recover their added expenses. And being gun shy this time, they are not making investments this time like they did the last time. So for that reason alone (if true) the ammo shortage will last longer because they are not increasing manufacturing capabilities this time.
Again, I am regurgitating this from memory from an article I read back when this shortage was already a few months in. I could be wrong or the article could be wrong. This is just what I remember. Hopefully I remember correctly.
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 21, 2021, 03:19:14 PM
I’m no expert. But I read that during the last ammo shortage, the ammo manufacturers bought new equipment, expanded their footprint and hired new employees. By the time they got everything up and running the ammo shortage was slowing and within a few months demand diminished and they caught up and prices went lower. They made this huge investment in equipment, footprint and employees and the shortage didn’t last long enough for them to recover their added expenses. And being gun shy this time, they are not making investments this time like they did the last time. So for that reason alone (if true) the ammo shortage will last longer because they are not increasing manufacturing capabilities this time.So they should already have the equipkent, just gotta dust it off and add lube.
Again, I am regurgitating this from memory from an article I read back when this shortage was already a few months in. I could be wrong or the article could be wrong. This is just what I remember. Hopefully I remember correctly.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 21, 2021, 03:27:15 PM
I’m no expert. But I read that during the last ammo shortage, the ammo manufacturers bought new equipment, expanded their footprint and hired new employees. By the time they got everything up and running the ammo shortage was slowing and within a few months demand diminished and they caught up and prices went lower. They made this huge investment in equipment, footprint and employees and the shortage didn’t last long enough for them to recover their added expenses. And being gun shy this time, they are not making investments this time like they did the last time. So for that reason alone (if true) the ammo shortage will last longer because they are not increasing manufacturing capabilities this time.
Again, I am regurgitating this from memory from an article I read back when this shortage was already a few months in. I could be wrong or the article could be wrong. This is just what I remember. Hopefully I remember correctly.
I took a graduate degree class for an MBA that had us do computer-guided games.
One was to budget for R&D, expansion of capital resources in a rising market, dealing with additional labor costs, etc.
One mindset is to expand permanently, planning for an ongoing increase in demand and higher prices in each revenue period.
What seemed to make the most sense (and may apply now) was the temporary mindset.
Instead of buying or building more production, storage and support services space, it's probably better to rent another factory if available,
Instead of hiring more full-time employees to work the new rented factory, try working shifts in the existing space.
Instead of hiring more full-time employees to work shifts, offer overtime to existing employees, or hire part time workers for those jobs that don't take a full shift, like working in the shipping/receiving warehouse for incoming raw materials and outgoing shipment preparation (palletizing orders, verifying order accuracy, printing shipping labels, etc.). Just need enough additional labor to handle the increase in shipping customers. Most of the product will be going to distributors, so the number of customers won't be massive.
Instead of renting and equipping a new factory space, see if another ammo factory has surplus equipment and space to lease.
When McDonald's opens a franchise in a new region, they hire bakers to make their breads, beef and poultry companies to provide meat, etc. They don't own 100% of their production chain. Ammo makers could farm out portions of their production, too. As with McD's, the quality control would be an additional cost working with 3rd parties, but cheaper than capital investment to do it all yourself.
In summary, there are always options to ramp up production without sinking a chunk of revenue/profits into capital investment. Labor is often the most expensive variable cost in any business. Shift work for 24 hour production, part time and temp workers, and overtime are all ways to avoid the cost of bringing on new workers who may be laid off in the near future.
Post by: Inspector on January 21, 2021, 03:31:38 PM
So they should already have the equipkent, just gotta dust it off and add lube.That’s what the wife keeps telling me! :rofl:
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But seriously they have been hiring to man the machines they have. But I think they are gun shy to invest in more machines and space. At least that is the idea I got from the article.
Post by: Inspector on January 21, 2021, 03:40:42 PM
I took a graduate degree class for an MBA that had us do computer-guided games.My original degree goal was in accounting. I had a dream of being a certified accountant with the possibility of becoming a CFO of a company. I found out after 2 years I hated accounting! :rofl:
One was to budget for R&D, expansion of capital resources in a rising market, dealing with additional labor costs, etc.
One mindset is to expand permanently, planning for an ongoing increase in demand and higher prices in each revenue period.
What seemed to make the most sense (and may apply now) was the temporary mindset.
Instead of buying or building more production, storage and support services space, it's probably better to rent another factory if available,
Instead of hiring more full-time employees to work the new rented factory, try working shifts in the existing space.
Instead of hiring more full-time employees to work shifts, offer overtime to existing employees, or hire part time workers for those jobs that don't take a full shift, like working in the shipping/receiving warehouse for incoming raw materials and outgoing shipment preparation (palletizing orders, verifying order accuracy, printing shipping labels, etc.). Just need enough additional labor to handle the increase in shipping customers. Most of the product will be going to distributors, so the number of customers won't be massive.
Instead of renting and equipping a new factory space, see if another ammo factory has surplus equipment and space to lease.
When McDonald's opens a franchise in a new region, they hire bakers to make their breads, beef and poultry companies to provide meat, etc. They don't own 100% of their production chain. Ammo makers could farm out portions of their production, too. As with McD's, the quality control would be an additional cost working with 3rd parties, but cheaper than capital investment to do it all yourself.
In summary, there are always options to ramp up production without sinking a chunk of revenue/profits into capital investment. Labor is often the most expensive variable cost in any business. Shift work for 24 hour production, part time and temp workers, and overtime are all ways to avoid the cost of bringing on new workers who may be laid off in the near future.
I agree with your assessment. I’m not sure it can be applied 100% to the ammunition manufacture due to the specialization of equipment that needs to be purchased. Another thing the article went into is that the ammo manufacturers generally did not invest in the equipment that makes 22 ammo. The equipment that makes 22 ammo cannot make any other type of ammo due to specialization. Where the equipment that can make center fire ammo can make any type of center fire ammo. So the investment went into center fire ammo. Which makes sense as it took another year or so for 22 manufacture to catch up where center fire manufacture caught up pretty quickly. Based on this info (assuming I remember correctly) I think it will take at least a year or more for 22 to catch up after center fire ammo does.
Post by: groveler on January 21, 2021, 04:44:48 PM
I’m no expert. But I read that during the last ammo shortage, the ammo manufacturers bought new equipment, expanded their footprint and hired new employees. By the time they got everything up and running the ammo shortage was slowing and within a few months demand diminished and they caught up and prices went lower. They made this huge investment in equipment, footprint and employees and the shortage didn’t last long enough for them to recover their added expenses. And being gun shy this time, they are not making investments this time like they did the last time. So for that reason alone (if true) the ammo shortage will last longer because they are not increasing manufacturing capabilities this time.I spent years in aerospace. I too thought about business as a University major.
Again, I am regurgitating this from memory from an article I read back when this shortage was already a few months in. I could be wrong or the article could be wrong. This is just what I remember. Hopefully I remember correctly.
I stopped at Business Calculus and switched to STEM Calculus. Business stuff was
boring.
This is purely my opinion. If you want to be the very best at something, you concentrate
on the product. Not employees, not share values, not politics, not your own personal
wealth. If you produce the best product, on time, when people want it, and can ratchet things down
when things quiet down, you will beat everybody else.
The word I was taught is "Nimble".
In the real world things aren't linear. Many businesses try to make it so.
Humans by nature want stability. The best thing a business can do
is prepare for instability and train their workers and set up their systems
to adapt to Minima and Maxima.
But always focus on a product, that the customer wants.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 21, 2021, 04:53:03 PM
My original degree goal was in accounting. I had a dream of being a certified accountant with the possibility of becoming a CFO of a company. I found out after 2 years I hated accounting! :rofl:
I agree with your assessment. I’m not sure it can be applied 100% to the ammunition manufacture due to the specialization of equipment that needs to be purchased. Another thing the article went into is that the ammo manufacturers generally did not invest in the equipment that makes 22 ammo. The equipment that makes 22 ammo cannot make any other type of ammo due to specialization. Where the equipment that can make center fire ammo can make any type of center fire ammo. So the investment went into center fire ammo. Which makes sense as it took another year or so for 22 manufacture to catch up where center fire manufacture caught up pretty quickly. Based on this info (assuming I remember correctly) I think it will take at least a year or more for 22 to catch up after center fire ammo does.
That's getting into the technical weeds. All I have to say is, *IF* companies bought the machines to increase supplies during the last shortage, there may be those machines still sitting idle in storage somewhere, or at least not being 100% utilized due to being "gun shy" at ramping up to 150% production again.
While .22 ammo is a biggie, the other common calibers don't have the same technical limitations you listed for .22.
One thing in the video that I didn't consider before was the primer demand. They can't sell primers that they need for ammunition production. So reloaders take a backseat. That should apply to all cartridge components, but I guess primers are the hardest part to batch out as quickly?
Post by: Inspector on January 22, 2021, 12:47:17 AM
I spent years in aerospace. I too thought about business as a University major.For me, in the beginning, the math aspect was the fun part. But after a while it became mundane as I was pretty much doing the same thing over and over.
I stopped at Business Calculus and switched to STEM Calculus. Business stuff was
boring.
This is purely my opinion. If you want to be the very best at something, you concentrate
on the product. Not employees, not share values, not politics, not your own personal
wealth. If you produce the best product, on time, when people want it, and can ratchet things down
when things quiet down, you will beat everybody else.
The word I was taught is "Nimble".
In the real world things aren't linear. Many businesses try to make it so.
Humans by nature want stability. The best thing a business can do
is prepare for instability and train their workers and set up their systems
to adapt to Minima and Maxima.
But always focus on a product, that the customer wants.
When I changed careers and went into high tech I learned about being “Nimble”. I had a great boss at Cisco. He was/is VERY successful. He went on to become a Vice President. I left the company because he got promoted and had to move to San Jose. Everybody who came in after him was wholly inadequate for the position. While they were all nice people their business acumen was just awful. I also learned about how big business is done. The right way and the wrong way.
I found I preferred to work for small businesses as they are much more exciting and “Nimble”. Plus they usually are much more focussed on the customer needs. I had a good time in my 12 years in high tech. But as usual, I got bored with it rather easily.