Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2021, 06:05:30 PM
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2021, 06:17:22 PM
Overall goal is consistency at longer ranges, where I’m chasing consistency in the 600-1000 yard window. I have had good success with this particular gun in shooting groups at 100 yards with factory ammo as well as good results in the 300-450 ish range. So I know this gun can shoot at least decent level. Not really chasing uber accuracy like in benchrest, but I do want to see what results I can get with this gun.
Post by: ren on January 20, 2021, 07:07:50 PM
a good set of reliable and repeatable calipers is a must i.e. Mitutoyo or Starrett
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2021, 07:20:44 PM
these are some good tools to have and at a good price: https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=39698.0 (https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=39698.0)Thanks. I have the .308 Precision mic from a buddy (who gave up loading for .308). I also have a range of calipers, including Mitutoyo digital and dial calipers.
a good set of reliable and repeatable calipers is a must i.e. Mitutoyo or Starrett
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2021, 07:49:33 PM
Target is left to right, top to bottom
1-40.0 gr
Ave 2352
SD 16.1
ES 42
(Not gonna lie, there was a bit of hesitation prior to pulling tigger on the first round, haha)
2-40.5
Ave 2415
SD 19.5
ES 43
3-41.0
Ave 2445
SD 13.8
ES 37
4-41.5
Ave 2487
SD 17.0
ES 45
5-42.0
Ave 2526
SD 13.7
ES 34
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210121/489da5c56d3078c7784225389eed5252.jpg)
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2021, 07:54:58 PM
1-41.0 gr
Ave 2387
SD 15.8
ES 35
2-41.5
Ave 2433
SD 18.7
ES 47
3-42.0
Ave 2457
SD 15.2
ES 36
4-42.5
Ave 2499
SD 14.8
ES 41
5-43.0
Ave 2522
SD 11.5
ES 30
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210121/5763294f61e2989a9375bf5c1811d684.jpg)
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2021, 07:58:15 PM
1-40.5 gr
Ave 2493
SD 17.0
ES 44
2-41.0
Ave 2530
SD 9.7
ES 25
3-41.5
Ave 2570
SD 19.7
ES 49
4-42.0
Ave 2588
SD 7.0
ES 18
5-42.5
Ave 2621
SD 8.6
ES 19
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210121/7ce00d11b4517857aeab8323e32e377d.jpg)
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2021, 08:04:21 PM
The “just as good as Varget” powder
1-40.0 gr
Ave 2303
SD 20.7
ES 54
The first shot was way low and velocity much lower than rear of group.
2-40.5
Ave 2327
SD 25.5
ES 67
3-41.0
Ave 2381
SD 9.4
ES 22
4-41.5
Ave 2467
SD 6.7
ES 15
5-42.0
Ave 2457
SD 10.4
ES 25
I had loaded some Varget 42.0 to shoot after this batch and I had noticed a trend of seating depth varied gradually as the box went along. I’ll go back and recheck/reseat those, but I suspect the seating depths on this batch was off. Dunno if I will revisit this powder when I start the serious load development. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210121/585036155439edba61ba41cfa69bf86c.jpg)
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2021, 08:11:29 PM
I have 3031 as well, but will likely stick with Varget and 8208 first. Maybe more 4064 as well.
Post by: macsak on January 20, 2021, 08:12:30 PM
Going to be shooting at a friend’s property in a few weeks for some long(er) range shooting. Loaded up some Varget 42.0 based on results of the initial test and shot some to test prior to that. Will likely load up some 8208. That will get me a good amount of fire formed brass for the next steps in load development.
I have 3031 as well, but will likely stick with Varget and 8208 first. Maybe more 4064 as well.
tfti
Post by: Inspector on January 21, 2021, 08:58:23 AM
How do feel about your results? Are you happy or no about them?
Post by: drck1000 on January 21, 2021, 09:37:11 AM
That’s some pretty good shootin’ there slim. :PThanks! :bow:
How do feel about your results? Are you happy or no about them?
Results? Mixed. I was pretty happy with the first round, which was 4064 and Varget. On one hand, I was just looking forward to shooting my reloads and see the results, no matter the outcome. That they all went boom and no problems was good. That said, I was pretty pleased to see some promise, particularly with the Varget. Enough so that I loaded up a bunch for the upcoming range day. I would ideally have liked more time to get further in my load development, but I decided to load up some. I wasn't sure if I was going to have time for another loading session. It looks like I will have time for one more, so will have to decide which one to load up. Probably the 8208.
The second round was 8208 and Shooters World. Maybe I had set my expectations high from the first round, but I was a little disappointed with the results of that day. Particularly with the Shooters World. Not all the powder as I suspect some (or much) have to do with my loading, especially attention to detail. I have better components now and some more on the way, so still in the middle of the process of upping our game into the (more) precision loading realm. Prior to that, my buddy was mostly setup for emphasis on higher volume as opposed to precision.
Overall, I am enjoying the experience and having fun. I am excited to see where this goes in many aspects.
Post by: Inspector on January 21, 2021, 09:43:23 AM
Thanks! :bow:I don’t have a lot of experience with 8208 and Shooters World. I have heard a lot of good stuff about 8208. And mixed results with Shooters World. I am not surprised with your results with Varget. I have very good results with it. Though not in 308. Keep plugging along and the results will continue to get you closer and closer to your goal.
Results? Mixed. I was pretty happy with the first round, which was 4064 and Varget. On one hand, I was just looking forward to shooting my reloads and see the results, no matter the outcome. That they all went boom and no problems was good. That said, I was pretty pleased to see some promise, particularly with the Varget. Enough so that I loaded up a bunch for the upcoming range day. I would ideally have liked more time to get further in my load development, but I decided to load up some. I wasn't sure if I was going to have time for another loading session. It looks like I will have time for one more, so will have to decide which one to load up. Probably the 8208.
The second round was 8208 and Shooters World. Maybe I had set my expectations high from the first round, but I was a little disappointed with the results of that day. Particularly with the Shooters World. Not all the powder as I suspect some (or much) have to do with my loading, especially attention to detail. I have better components now and some more on the way, so still in the middle of the process of upping our game into the (more) precision loading realm. Prior to that, my buddy was mostly setup for emphasis on higher volume as opposed to precision.
Overall, I am enjoying the experience and having fun. I am excited to see where this goes in many aspects.
Post by: drck1000 on January 21, 2021, 09:53:04 AM
I don’t have a lot of experience with 8208 and Shooters World. I have heard a lot of good stuff about 8208. And mixed results with Shooters World. I am not surprised with your results with Varget. I have very good results with it. Though not in 308. Keep plugging along and the results will continue to get you closer and closer to your goal.One of my shooting buddies has had good success with 8208. So if I don't like it, I will have a buyer lined up. ;D
Varget was a powder that I wanted to get from the start. Tougher to find here, but I was able to find a decent amount. TAC and RL15 are the other two that I would like to get my hands on, and N150 as well. However, those seem even harder to find than Varget, so I'm somewhat leery of trying, end up liking, and can't get.
Yeah, will keep going for sure. I haven't even started what I consider the "real" load development yet. Still waiting on getting all of the equipment that we want for the loading setup. Have things that will work, but might as well wait a little bit more and have the right (or better) equipment. I am happy with the initial results though, don't get me wrong.
Post by: macsak on January 21, 2021, 11:25:46 AM
i don't read it as dRck on first quick glance
heads
Post by: drck1000 on January 21, 2021, 11:38:38 AM
can you please change the title of the thread?Don't you have anything better to do? :P
i don't read it as dRck on first quick glance
heads
Post by: Inspector on January 21, 2021, 11:44:59 AM
Don't you have anything better to do? :PHe’s a dentist. So no. :rofl:
Post by: macsak on January 21, 2021, 11:45:41 AM
He’s a dentist. So no. :rofl:
not a real doctor
Post by: macsak on January 21, 2021, 11:45:53 AM
Don't you have anything better to do? :P
heads
Post by: Inspector on January 21, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
not a real doctorGlad you agree. :rofl:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 21, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
can you please change the title of the thread?
i don't read it as dRck on first quick glance
heads
Projecting?
Get your mind out of the Sophomoric gutter.
Post by: macsak on January 21, 2021, 01:00:02 PM
Projecting?
Get your mind out of the Sophomoric gutter.
heads
Post by: drck1000 on January 22, 2021, 07:52:53 AM
One hopefully good sign is that I am seeing some LGS with ammo come in here and there. Even including some more common rifle and pistol calibers. Don't expect stuff like primers to be in stock very often, but hope to see some "calming" for some components in the coming (many) months.
Post by: stangzilla on January 22, 2021, 10:31:06 AM
Varget with 175 gr SMK and CCI No.200
1-41.0 gr
Ave 2387
SD 15.8
ES 35
2-41.5
Ave 2433
SD 18.7
ES 47
3-42.0
Ave 2457
SD 15.2
ES 36
4-42.5
Ave 2499
SD 14.8
ES 41
5-43.0
Ave 2522
SD 11.5
ES 30
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210121/5763294f61e2989a9375bf5c1811d684.jpg)
nice! :shaka:
I've only tried H4895 for my 308 but I have some varget too
I don't shoot much 308. maybe i'll try some with the varget next
Post by: Inspector on January 22, 2021, 10:54:03 AM
Reloading components have been scare for a while, particularly primers and some powders. I was able to get a good amount of powders that I wanted to try for loading .308. There are a few more that I would like to try, but I'm ok with what I have. However, I've noticed that brass availability has dropped way down in the last few weeks. It was tough to find the cheaper brass in the Nov-Dec timeframe, but the premium brass like Lapua and Peterson were available in a lot of places. Now they are on "extended backorder" everywhere on many of the common calibers. Even the brass that take SRP are out in most places.Powder here on the mainland and at online sources as all but dried up. I suggest if you find the powder you want that you buy it when you can. Because it may not be available over there for a while once it is all gone.
One hopefully good sign is that I am seeing some LGS with ammo come in here and there. Even including some more common rifle and pistol calibers. Don't expect stuff like primers to be in stock very often, but hope to see some "calming" for some components in the coming (many) months.
Post by: drck1000 on January 22, 2021, 11:09:37 AM
nice! :shaka:H4895 and IMR 4895 is on my interest list. I've seen both available in decent amounts locally in a few shops. I have a few powders that have shown promise, so will likely to more testing with those first. Hopefully refine one load first, and then branch out to other powders and heads. I have 3031 on hand as well, which is the only one that I haven't tested yet. It was one of the first powders I picked up since I recognized the name and saw it in stock. A buddy has had ok results with that powder, so will likely see if he want it or use for loading up 30-06.
I've only tried H4895 for my 308 but I have some varget too
I don't shoot much 308. maybe i'll try some with the varget next
Powder here on the mainland and at online sources as all but dried up. I suggest if you find the powder you want that you buy it when you can. Because it may not be available over there for a while once it is all gone.Yikes. Not a good sign for HI. Luckily, I have had at least promising results with a few powders that I have on hand, so can invest in more of those. Varget and 8208 in the lead, with 4064 as decent. I would love to get my hands on TAC and RL as well, but haven't even seen 1# jars anywhere.
Post by: Rocky on January 24, 2021, 08:56:46 AM
VERY similar to Rockettes.
:wave:
Post by: dogman on January 24, 2021, 12:19:48 PM
Powder here on the mainland and at online sources as all but dried up. I suggest if you find the powder you want that you buy it when you can. Because it may not be available over there for a while once it is all gone.Very good advice :thumbsup: I think the high cost of hazmat shipping might be a good thing for once. Looking at Gunbroker; Varget has SOLD for $125/lb, IMR4064 has SOLD for $300/2lbs, H-4350 has SOLD for $675/ 8lbs. Primers have SOLD for $200 to $300 + / brick. If it wasn't for the high hazmat shipping fees, I think powders would be sold out here and listed on Gunbroker by those looking for profits instead of being purchased by the ones who really need them.
:stopjack:
Post by: drck1000 on January 24, 2021, 12:33:53 PM
Very good advice :thumbsup: I think the high cost of hazmat shipping might be a good thing for once. Looking at Gunbroker; Varget has SOLD for $125/lb, IMR4064 has SOLD for $300/2lbs, H-4350 has SOLD for $675/ 8lbs. Primers have SOLD for $200 to $300 + / brick. If it wasn't for the high hazmat shipping fees, I think powders would be sold out here and listed on Gunbroker by those looking for profits instead of being purchased by the ones who really need them.Yikes. I don’t browse GB. I heard primers are out or going for ridiculous prices. Shitty state of things you mentioned.
:stopjack:
Post by: drck1000 on January 24, 2021, 12:34:56 PM
Looks like your optimum fps avg is 2489 + / - 32 fps.Ya. Seems so. Will start powder charge testing in the 0.2 gr increments soon.
VERY similar to Rockettes.
:wave:
Post by: Inspector on January 24, 2021, 12:35:17 PM
Very good advice :thumbsup: I think the high cost of hazmat shipping might be a good thing for once. Looking at Gunbroker; Varget has SOLD for $125/lb, IMR4064 has SOLD for $300/2lbs, H-4350 has SOLD for $675/ 8lbs. Primers have SOLD for $200 to $300 + / brick. If it wasn't for the high hazmat shipping fees, I think powders would be sold out here and listed on Gunbroker by those looking for profits instead of being purchased by the ones who really need them.WOW! At those prices I should sell some of my stash! :rofl:
:stopjack:
If you think that primer prices are bad, check out this GB auction that closed almost a week ago:
https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/889873610
If you don’t want to click on it, 100 primers sold for $57.00. Not 1,000 primers but 100. That’s 57 cents each. Even the biggest cartridge I reload for doesn’t cost me that much to reload the entire cartridge.
Out here, you can’t find any small primers. But you can find some large pistol/rifle/magnum if you look hard enough. They are asking between $55-$80/1,000. I don’t need any large primers. As a matter of fact I have an open trade on another forum I am looking for small primers and will trade for large. No takers so far.
Post by: dogman on January 24, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
WOW! At those prices I should sell some of my stash! :rofl:A couple of weeks ago, when I left Roy's the only primers they had left was one brick of No. 41s. I don't know for how much, but they sold me a brick of CCI small magnum pistol primers for $29.00.
If you think that primer prices are bad, check out this GB auction that closed almost a week ago:
https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/889873610
If you don’t want to click on it, 100 primers sold for $57.00. Not 1,000 primers but 100. That’s 57 cents each. Even the biggest cartridge I reload for doesn’t cost me that much to reload the entire cartridge.
Out here, you can’t find any small primers. But you can find some large pistol/rifle/magnum if you look hard enough. They are asking between $55-$80/1,000. I don’t need any large primers. As a matter of fact I have an open trade on another forum I am looking for small primers and will trade for large. No takers so far.
Post by: Inspector on January 24, 2021, 12:59:31 PM
A couple of weeks ago, when I left Roy's the only primers they had left was one brick of No. 41s. I don't know for how much, but they sold me a brick of CCI small magnum pistol primers for $29.00.Good for Roy’s!!! That’s great that they are holding their prices.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 24, 2021, 02:11:57 PM
Good for Roy’s!!! That’s great that they are holding their prices.
They did the same during the last ammo crunch. They put limits on purchases (1 box per caliber, 2 calibers per visit).
I didn't see any price increases at Roy's for months -- probably when they depleted their pre-shortage stock.
OGC orders ammo months out, so even after the prices soared, they had good deals until those quantities were depleted. The bad thing was, the distributors started using earlier orders to fill new orders so they could jack up the prices, which delayed fulfillment of earlier (cheaper) orders for months.
There should be discounts for customers left hanging while newer orders get filled, just to discourage that kind of BS.
Post by: drck1000 on January 25, 2021, 12:00:16 PM
In examining my brass, we found a range of fired lengths. Where I found cases in increments that allows us to skip the sizing in increments step. So that serves as gauges for my chamber. That was pretty interesting. Next step is to set my sizing die, verify brass is getting sized properly, and then lock in that die for my gun. Once I have a good set of "sized for my gun" brass, will proceed to the powder charge testing. Likely Varget and 8208 first and see what the chrono data has.
Have annealer and new case trimmer on order, so once those come in, will be all set for the next phase of load development. My buddy was sizing cases via a die that is set for his chamber dimensions, which is a PITA to adjust. So decided to get a trimmer (Sinclair/Wilson) where the trim length can be adjusted quickly.
Post by: ren on January 25, 2021, 12:26:28 PM
Post by: drck1000 on January 25, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
which annealer did you get?Annealeez
I was considering Bench Source, but the longer lead time and super expensive shipping steered me away. I did somewhat consider AMP, but couldn't justify the cost. At least not at this time.
Post by: macsak on January 25, 2021, 05:20:04 PM
Analeez
I was considering Bench Source, but the longer lead time and super expensive shipping steered me away. I did somewhat consider AMP, but couldn't justify the cost. At least not at this time.
heads
Post by: Rocky on January 25, 2021, 06:28:08 PM
which annealer did you get?
Quote from: drck1000 on Today at 01:37:57 PM
Analeez
:wtf: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: drck1000 on January 26, 2021, 08:26:41 AM
When I did get around to setting up my sizing die, I did it the way where you take fire formed brass and you bump the brass back and check in your chamber (with bolt extractor removed). So I verified my brass headspace to the chamber. In that process, I did notice that some of my once fired brass that was the first pass in my load development was varying case sizes. I'd have to check the measurements, but it went from some fired brass being where the bolt had resistance to lock to where the bolt would drop freely. The brass was already decapped, where the brass from that round of testing was mixed up, so couldn't check to see if the cases that didn't fully expand to my chamber was from the lower powder charges.
Post by: drck1000 on January 26, 2021, 08:29:13 AM
My buddy's current setup has a rotary trimmer on a sizing die. I think it's set to trim the brass back to "original" factory dimensions. I have a Sinclair/Wilson trimmer in-bound, so he can continue to use his trimmer that is set to his chamber headspace and I can use my trimmer where the trim length can be adjusted.
Post by: ren on January 26, 2021, 09:23:03 AM
Post by: drck1000 on January 26, 2021, 09:36:42 AM
I use a Giraud TriWay to what its set at factory.How does that set the trim length? By how much of the neck passes the insert?
I've seen a lot of folks using the Giraud Power Case Trimmer, which has inserts for specific calibers. Some even create a custom insert from the chamber reamer for their rifle. I'm not ready for that level, but darn interesting on what is available. Similar with annealing machines with the AMP.
Post by: ren on January 26, 2021, 09:40:05 AM
here's the manual: https://www.giraudtool.com/uploads/8/2/0/0/82007436/giraud_tri_way_trimmer.pdf (https://www.giraudtool.com/uploads/8/2/0/0/82007436/giraud_tri_way_trimmer.pdf)
I like it as it trims, chamfers and deburrs in one step - like a pencil sharpener
Post by: drck1000 on January 26, 2021, 10:00:25 AM
it is set off the shoulderAhh, cool.
here's the manual: https://www.giraudtool.com/uploads/8/2/0/0/82007436/giraud_tri_way_trimmer.pdf (https://www.giraudtool.com/uploads/8/2/0/0/82007436/giraud_tri_way_trimmer.pdf)
I like it as it trims, chamfers and deburrs in one step - like a pencil sharpener
How do you choose or set your trim length? Shoulder plus _______ (or something like that)? Maintain the same length from shoulder as factory case? My buddy's trimmer is set off of the shoulder, but measurements was the total case length. The Sinclair/Wilson has a case holder which is locked in by the case body/sides.
Seems like many different perspectives/methods, where it seems like not a major factor (as opposed to other sizing parameters).
Post by: ren on January 26, 2021, 10:53:39 AM
Ahh, cool.
How do you choose or set your trim length? Shoulder plus _______ (or something like that)? Maintain the same length from shoulder as factory case? My buddy's trimmer is set off of the shoulder, but measurements was the total case length. The Sinclair/Wilson has a case holder which is locked in by the case body/sides.
Seems like many different perspectives/methods, where it seems like not a major factor (as opposed to other sizing parameters).
I just trim in reference to Dillon case gauges. I don't have a good set of calipers (Midway - not repeatable). I use Mitutoyos at work and there is a significant difference. I don't spent too much time with variables such as trim length and sizing. Minimum is good for me. Most of my shooting is with an AR or 1911.
Post by: drck1000 on January 26, 2021, 11:06:06 AM
I just trim in reference to Dillon case gauges. I don't have a good set of calipers (Midway - not repeatable). I use Mitutoyos at work and there is a significant difference. I don't spent too much time with variables such as trim length and sizing. Minimum is good for me. Most of my shooting is with an AR or 1911.I have two Mitutoyos (one digital and one dial). I really like the dial calipers, except when doing measurements that require zeroing out, like with the comparators.
I've compared with the first caliper that I bought many years ago (General) for I think about $20. I also have an iGaging one and I've done some comparisons between them. In terms of repeatable, all of the calipers have are generally repeatable. I have noticed that the jaws on the cheapers ones either aren't machined that well (not square or uniform plane) or the sliding side of the jaw can tilt. For most of my uses, all are "ok" in that they give (mostly) repeatable relative measurements.
Yeah, not spending much time on trim length. Just curious what folks here do. Even for sizing, once I have my die set, I'll check the cases here and there, but pretty much locked things in now that I have my chamber sized. Eventually, I will get into varying seating depth, but even then, the measurements are relative to start and end point, and increments in between.
Post by: Heavies on January 26, 2021, 07:00:14 PM
I have two Mitutoyos (one digital and one dial). I really like the dial calipers, except when doing measurements that require zeroing out, like with the comparators.
I've compared with the first caliper that I bought many years ago (General) for I think about $20. I also have an iGaging one and I've done some comparisons between them. In terms of repeatable, all of the calipers have are generally repeatable. I have noticed that the jaws on the cheapers ones either aren't machined that well (not square or uniform plane) or the sliding side of the jaw can tilt. For most of my uses, all are "ok" in that they give (mostly) repeatable relative measurements.
Yeah, not spending much time on trim length. Just curious what folks here do. Even for sizing, once I have my die set, I'll check the cases here and there, but pretty much locked things in now that I have my chamber sized. Eventually, I will get into varying seating depth, but even then, the measurements are relative to start and end point, and increments in between.
Neck trim length just has to be within specs for that particular caliber. You can look up the specs online. More important is that they are all the same length.
For my accurate target bolt gun cases, I make sure that everything that touches the bullet is all uniform. Anneal every case every firing, trim to the same length every time, neck wall thickness is as close to the same as possible (Only need to do this once when cases are new, used to turn the necks, but it's too much work, and also large swings in neck wall thickness also indicated the same uneven wall thickness in the rest of the case. I cull cases that are more than .002" out), size the neck from the inside to the same I.D. using the Lee Collet neck sizer.
I do all of this because I want the bullet held with the same force and want the bullet released the same way for every shot as close as possible.
One other thing is I bump the shoulder .0015" to .002" using a Redding shoulder/body die first before neck sizing.
Idea is I want all the cases as close to identical as possible.
Post by: drck1000 on January 26, 2021, 08:10:50 PM
Consistency once things are setup properly is where I am working toward. Annealing is a big step toward getting there in the process. I have noticed, or at least started to notice the effects of variation in neck tension. Both in variation in velocity as well as consistency in seating. We suspect the seating die that my buddy has, and the ones that I was originally using, sets the neck tension too tight. I have an PMA Tool expander mandrel and die inbound and a range of bushings for a Redding Type-S sizing die. May eventually try the KM mandrel system in order to allow more variation in the neck tension, but those have a long lead time. Figure start with consistency with one level of mandrel and then try varying in the future.
Neck trim length just has to be within specs for that particular caliber. You can look up the specs online. More important is that they are all the same length.
For my accurate target bolt gun cases, I make sure that everything that touches the bullet is all uniform. Anneal every case every firing, trim to the same length every time, neck wall thickness is as close to the same as possible (Only need to do this once when cases are new, used to turn the necks, but it's too much work, and also large swings in neck wall thickness also indicated the same uneven wall thickness in the rest of the case. I cull cases that are more than .002" out), size the neck from the inside to the same I.D. using the Lee Collet neck sizer.
I do all of this because I want the bullet held with the same force and want the bullet released the same way for every shot as close as possible.
One other thing is I bump the shoulder .0015" to .002" using a Redding shoulder/body die first before neck sizing.
Idea is I want all the cases as close to identical as possible.
Thanks for the feedback on trim length and what you do for bumping the shoulder back. Now that I have the chamber headspace dimension of my gun, I have to decide how much I will bump the shoulders back. Likely in the same 0.0015 to 0.002 range you do though.
Had looked up neck turning, but don't plan on going that route. At least for now.
Post by: Heavies on January 26, 2021, 09:55:17 PM
Consistency once things are setup properly is where I am working toward. Annealing is a big step toward getting there in the process. I have noticed, or at least started to notice the effects of variation in neck tension. Both in variation in velocity as well as consistency in seating. We suspect the seating die that my buddy has, and the ones that I was originally using, sets the neck tension too tight. I have an PMA Tool expander mandrel and die inbound and a range of bushings for a Redding Type-S sizing die. May eventually try the KM mandrel system in order to allow more variation in the neck tension, but those have a long lead time. Figure start with consistency with one level of mandrel and then try varying in the future.
Thanks for the feedback on trim length and what you do for bumping the shoulder back. Now that I have the chamber headspace dimension of my gun, I have to decide how much I will bump the shoulders back. Likely in the same 0.0015 to 0.002 range you do though.
Had looked up neck turning, but don't plan on going that route. At least for now.
For bumping the shoulder i use the redding body die and mink oil shoe polish (which is Lanolin) for lube. Just a dab on the finger and swipe on the body of the case, avoiding buildup near the neck/shoulder area.
Once the die is set up to give the desired setback, it is very accurate and repeatable bump. (Cases must be annealed to have consistent results regardless) With a .0015 .002 setback cases will chamber easily yet have minimal play in the chamber.
Played with variable neck tensions before, and found no appreciable advantage IMO.
Thats why I use the Lee collet neck sizer. The set dimension of the center mandrel is perfectly repeatable, and the crimping of the outside of the neck straightens the case directly in line with the flash hole. Plus the neck is supported from the inside and outside during the process of sizing. This is not the case with any other type of neck sizing die. You can run into problems and variables depending on lubrication. (Lee collet requires no lube.)
All ammo produced by the method of body sizing then neck sizing in two steps have always produced near zero run out in every round. I quit measuring or even worrying about runout...
Post by: drck1000 on January 27, 2021, 08:23:33 AM
For bumping the shoulder i use the redding body die and mink oil shoe polish (which is Lanolin) for lube. Just a dab on the finger and swipe on the body of the case, avoiding buildup near the neck/shoulder area.Ahh, thanks! Still very much learning. Following the lead from some folks, including some that you posted videos of in other threads. Overall, very much open to other ways as I find my way (which will always evolve). For now, trying to go down the path of a specific lead and then go adjust from there.
Once the die is set up to give the desired setback, it is very accurate and repeatable bump. (Cases must be annealed to have consistent results regardless) With a .0015 .002 setback cases will chamber easily yet have minimal play in the chamber.
Played with variable neck tensions before, and found no appreciable advantage IMO.
Thats why I use the Lee collet neck sizer. The set dimension of the center mandrel is perfectly repeatable, and the crimping of the outside of the neck straightens the case directly in line with the flash hole. Plus the neck is supported from the inside and outside during the process of sizing. This is not the case with any other type of neck sizing die. You can run into problems and variables depending on lubrication. (Lee collet requires no lube.)
All ammo produced by the method of body sizing then neck sizing in two steps have always produced near zero run out in every round. I quit measuring or even worrying about runout...
You're the second person to mention lanolin. I already have some Hornady and Redding die wax, but I also have the same mink oil for my shoes. I haven't used it in many years. Hope the tins aren't all dried out.
Noted on the variable neck tensions. I mostly meant being able to have varying bushings and mandrels that end up with the desired neck tension. Something I was warned about on the machining of those elements. They aren't uber expensive. Since they are mostly available online, so I got a range so that I didn't have a case where I tried a bushing and it didn't end up with the target, and then have to order another bushing and wait.
At what point in your process do you do the neck size and the mandrel? Since your setup the Lee collet doesn't need lube. I read where some apply dry powder lube for the mandrel. Since the process is just before powder charge and bullet seating, they chose a lube method that doesn't impact the powder.
Post by: ren on January 27, 2021, 09:05:39 AM
Post by: drck1000 on January 27, 2021, 09:10:55 AM
I witnessed Heavies reloading methods and they work! He destroys spotters.Meh. His reloading times with black powder handguns could use some work. . . :P ;D
I appreciate his feedback and experience. Your feedback too, as well as others on here. All good information for me, and hopefully for others as well.
Post by: TooFewPews on January 29, 2021, 11:03:44 AM
personally, i would load at 0.4 grain (roughly 1%) increments in hopes of getting better resolution in my data. it might also help prevent you from skipping over a node.
of course, everyone has a different opinion so....
Post by: drck1000 on January 29, 2021, 11:38:47 AM
i noticed that you load at 0.5 grain increments.Initial sessions. Powder charge tests will be 0.2 increments once the real/serious tests starts.
personally, i would load at 0.4 grain (roughly 1%) increments in hopes of getting better resolution in my data. it might also help prevent you from skipping over a node.
of course, everyone has a different opinion so....
Post by: drck1000 on February 02, 2021, 08:08:15 AM
While that process gets geared up, will likely start preparations for the next batch of reloading preparations, which is after I get the next set of brass in. They will be new, unprimed brass. Plan is to loadup and get them fire formed. Now, I'm trying to decide what to do to get that next set of brass there. Many folks (or at least a couple of key folks I have been taking advice from) load up the new brass with something close to their proven loads. I don't have a proven load at this point. So what I was doing was in that process of fire forming brass, I was testing different powders at different powder charges to see if I noticed anything. Process was getting my feet wet with the entire reloading process, but ultimate goal was a set of fire formed brass ahead of the procurement of reloading equipment. Now that the reloading equipment is almost all here, starting plans for the next "prep phase".
In the initial rounds, I chose to load different powders in 0.5 gr increments. Again, the idea was primarily to fire form the brass to my chamber. The 0.5 gr increments was based on trying to cover most of the min to close to max charge ranges of most of the powders that I have. If I saw some patterns or a charge that showed promise, great. That allowed me to load up some ammo to what at least showed decent results for some range days in the interim, where I was shooting in the 200+ yard distances. The "real" load development is testing in 0.2 gr increments, but want to start that with fire formed brass.
In order to get to the fire formed brass for the next set of brass that will enter the pipeline, I am debating what to do with that set. I have a good amount of primers. However, I sort of want to save the powders that I have had good results for the next load development phase. So I am thinking about loading up some ammo with the powders that haven't shown as great results and boolits in other weights that I have on hand, but decided not to go with. I have a range of 168 gr, but I decided to go with 175 gr SMK for the load development. One thing I noticed though was in some of my fire formed brass, in some cases they weren't expanded to the full chamber. I found some that were fully fire formed, where the bolt wouldn't close on them easily with firing pin and ejector removed. Then others where the bolt would close easy and shorter. The size where the bolt closes easy is where I am targeting for the sizing die. But I have some cases that didn't get expanded to the full. I don't see that as a problem per se, but just something I noticed.
It will be a while before I get the brass for the next phase, so have some time to decide. Will also need to stock up on powder and boolits. . .
Post by: macsak on February 02, 2021, 08:18:23 AM
Getting ready for the next phase of load development, which is powder charge testing with upgraded/updated case prep equipment and fire formed brass. Holding on the annealer to really dive into that, so sort of in a holding pattern for at least 1-2 weeks.
While that process gets geared up, will likely start preparations for the next batch of reloading preparations, which is after I get the next set of brass in. They will be new, unprimed brass. Plan is to loadup and get them fire formed. Now, I'm trying to decide what to do to get that next set of brass there. Many folks (or at least a couple of key folks I have been taking advice from) load up the new brass with something close to their proven loads. I don't have a proven load at this point. So what I was doing was in that process of fire forming brass, I was testing different powders at different powder charges to see if I noticed anything. Process was getting my feet wet with the entire reloading process, but ultimate goal was a set of fire formed brass ahead of the procurement of reloading equipment. Now that the reloading equipment is almost all here, starting plans for the next "prep phase".
In the initial rounds, I chose to load different powders in 0.5 gr increments. Again, the idea was primarily to fire form the brass to my chamber. The 0.5 gr increments was based on trying to cover most of the min to close to max charge ranges of most of the powders that I have. If I saw some patterns or a charge that showed promise, great. That allowed me to load up some ammo to what at least showed decent results for some range days in the interim, where I was shooting in the 200+ yard distances. The "real" load development is testing in 0.2 gr increments, but want to start that with fire formed brass.
In order to get to the fire formed brass for the next set of brass that will enter the pipeline, I am debating what to do with that set. I have a good amount of primers. However, I sort of want to save the powders that I have had good results for the next load development phase. So I am thinking about loading up some ammo with the powders that haven't shown as great results and boolits in other weights that I have on hand, but decided not to go with. I have a range of 168 gr, but I decided to go with 175 gr SMK for the load development. One thing I noticed though was in some of my fire formed brass, in some cases they weren't expanded to the full chamber. I found some that were fully fire formed, where the bolt wouldn't close on them easily with firing pin and ejector removed. Then others where the bolt would close easy and shorter. The size where the bolt closes easy is where I am targeting for the sizing die. But I have some cases that didn't get expanded to the full. I don't see that as a problem per se, but just something I noticed.
It will be a while before I get the brass for the next phase, so have some time to decide. Will also need to stock up on powder and boolits. . .
Post by: drck1000 on February 04, 2021, 07:23:18 PM
The 168 gr SMK seem to have a lot of bad reviews once they go beyond 800 yards. I haven't shot the 168 gr FGMM much beyond 600 yards. And I've had at least decent results with the 175 gr SMK handloads in the 300-1110 ish distances. So now I'm debating if I will go with the 168 gr Berger hybrid, or 185 gr Berger hybrid. All will be trans-sonic by 800ish yard range with COAL in the 2.8" range. I'll have to compare the BCs closer, but I think the BC of the 168 gr Berger hybrids are more than the 175 gr SMK. Then there are a few 175 gr Berger options, but not the hybrid. So many choices. . .
I found some sites with Berger boolits on sale, but not sure which ones I want. I'm still going to be shooting the 175 gr SMK for a while more, so I have some time to research and maybe try 100 or so.
Post by: drck1000 on February 04, 2021, 07:27:01 PM
Post by: drck1000 on February 06, 2021, 01:46:15 PM
I have noticed that various vendors have been getting some in stock here and there, so that is promising. They sell out super quick though. I've received email notification of in stock around 9-11 pm HST, then sold out by 8 am HST the next morning. I am assuming the vendors do stock updates overnight, which works out well for us in Hawaii. But then once the EST wakes up, things seem to sell out super fast.
Seeing boolits in stock less and less as well. :(
Post by: Rocky on February 07, 2021, 03:44:42 PM
The load development sequence I have decided on is powder charge testing first, and then seating depth. However, most of the folks that I'm modelling the sequence from typically start with seating depth closer to jam. The headspace in my gun is generous, so I'll be limited by the mag for max length. Now I'm thinking of starting the powder charge test at the max length based on the mag first. That way, it will open up (in theory) the options on powder charge. At least as opposed to starting at the "base" COAL length of 2.800+/- range.Yup, I would start at yur max COAL/Ogive (BTG) and then work the powder.
If you do powder first, you'll just have to throw out all of that previous data when you change COAL.
Seating different height will change pressures/FPS
:wave:
Post by: drck1000 on February 12, 2021, 11:35:12 AM
Yup, I would start at yur max COAL/Ogive (BTG) and then work the powder.Yeah, I get that. However, getting perspectives on how people approach it. The folks that I've been following and modeling my method start at say "jam minus 0.020". I think my rifle is "generous" to the point were I don't even think the 175 gr SMK are even beyond the BT. I THINK I will eventually be trying the longer boolits, where they won't fit in the mags, but focusing on load for use with mags.
If you do powder first, you'll just have to throw out all of that previous data when you change COAL.
Seating different height will change pressures/FPS
:wave:
The folks I have been following also have a pretty good idea from their previous barrels. Yeah, new barrels are different, but they have a pretty good idea. I have a decent idea from the testing and data that I have from different powder charges at the "std" COAL of 2.800ish range. I was just thinking that if I start with the longest per mag length with powder charge first. Then even after selecting the powder charge, the max length is the lowest pressure before testing seating depths. The recommended progression of seating depth is to start with the boolits seated deeper and work your way longer. That way, if you find the node (sweet spot, whatever), then you can stop and then seat the longer rounds to those depths. In my case, I won't have that baseline. So I am thinking I'll start at the longer OAL and work my way to shorter OAL (seated deeper) and keep an eye on the velocities and pressure signs.
Slammed with work this week and next week. Still waiting on the annealer too, so have some "idle time".
Post by: Rocky on February 12, 2021, 03:48:10 PM
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=38874.msg350067#msg350067
Post by: Rocky on February 12, 2021, 04:00:18 PM
Which of the variables within a reloader's control have the greatest impact on rifle accuracy?
Primer uniformity is probably at the top of the list. This is about 60% of accuracy.
But it matters more as the range gets longer.
Non-uniform primers mean a greater velocity spread which means the vertical stringing at the target will be greater.
Case length doesn't matter much. As long as the mouth is square with the case axis, case length can vary 10 to 15 thousandths of an inch and accuracy will still be excellent.
Necks should be reasonably uniform in wall thickness, like no more than a .0005-in. variance. This helps keep the necks straight when the cases are resized.
And they should not be sized too much. If they are, the bullet seating pressure will be too high; too much tension will cause a higher spread in velocity due to the normal variable incountered as each
bullet needs a different amount of force to push it out of the cases. If
neck tension is minimum, the spread of the force to push the bullet out gets lower resulting in a lower velocity spread.
Case weight variance plays a somewhat important part.
Heavier cases have less volume, hence slightly higher pressures and velocities for the same set of components.
A 1% spread in case weight is typically good enough for best accuracy. Any more than that doesn't seem to make any difference.
Primer pockets and flash holes should be uniform.
Pocket depth needs to be consistant so each primer has the same pre-load; more uniform ignition.
Flash holes need to be the same diameter so the same flame properties are transferred to the powder.
But these two things only make about a 1/16th MOA difference in group size.
Case body wall thickness helps too.
They shouldn't have a spread of more than about .003-in. for 30 caliber cartridges; .002-in. for 22 and 24 caliber ones.
But again, this only has a small effect, like about 1/8th MOA or a tad less.
Powder charge weight variance can also cause more velocity spread.
But just as important is powder type and charge weight. It's been my experience that for a given powder, there's two charge weights that tend to produce
the best accuracy; one at about maximum, and one several grains less.
A chronograph is needed to check the velocity spread to determine this.
Charges with no more than a tenth grain variance is plenty good enough.
Primers typically cause a greater difference in velocity spread than a tenth of a grain of powder.
Bullet seating depth also has an effect on accuracy.
Best accuracy is usually going to happen when the bullet contacts the lands.
A lot of folks are reluctant to do this as they claim max pressures will be higher. Well,
they're right, but cutting the powder charge a few tenths of a grain will reduce that pressure.
Bullet concentricity is important, too.
In a .308 Win. for example, if the bullet runout is more than about .003-in., the groups will start to
open up a bit. If it's more than about .007-in., they probably straighten out as they enter the leade;
I've not seen any more accuracy reduction with such rounds. The more a bullet has to jump to the lands, the straighter it needs to be.
But bullets that are seated out far enough to be pushed back into the case a few thousandths as the bolt is closed can have a bit more
runout and be accurate as compared to bullets that jump a ways to the lands.
A square case mouth probably does more for letting the bullets seat straight than most other things.
It's easy to get good cases, bullets, powder and tools to assemble them.
But the hardest thing is getting good, uniform primers. Primers vary quite a bit across several lots; some much more than others.
For ranges of 200 yards or less, there's not much difference between primers, like about 1/4 MOA in the groups they can produce for the most part.
When longer ranges are used, primer uniformity becomes more important.
A recent batch of match-grade ammo (about 300,000 rounds) was loaded from the same lots of cases, bullets and powder.
Neck tension was quite uniform. Primer pockets were not uniformed nor were flash holes drilled to the same size.
Bullet runout peaked at about .004-in. But several lots of primers were used.
Some loaded lots of this ammo would shoot 2.8-in., 20-shot groups at 600 yards. Other lots would shoot 20-in. 20-shot groups at the same range.
The difference was in the primer lots; some were very uniform, others were not.
BB
:wave:
Post by: drck1000 on February 12, 2021, 04:42:36 PM
I'll save you a few thousandths and refer you back to this to get good start measurement
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=38874.msg350067#msg350067
Uh, thanks for sharing your research and results. As mentioned before, part of the fun of the process is trying for myself.
And now cuz you didn't listen the first time, I give you another "professional opinion" that discounts much of what has been discussed here. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:Uh, again, thanks. I'm not "discounting" what you post. However, all of that is just one perspective, of which there are many. Anyways, just sharing my thoughts. Then again, if/when you want to challenge "spinning the plate" again, just lmk. 8) O0 :shaka:
SNIP
:rofl:
Post by: Rocky on February 12, 2021, 06:01:59 PM
Uh, thanks for sharing your research and results. As mentioned before, part of the fun of the process is trying for myself.Rockette wants to shoot .308 for Valentines Day (At's my Gurl :love:) but Sundays are usually NoGo so maybe we'll try later in the week.
Did you try this method ?
It's a good starting point.
Uh, again, thanks. I'm not "discounting" what you post. However, all of that is just one perspective, of which there are many. Anyways, just sharing my thoughts.
That post was just to harass you as his "perspective" was 60% of rifle accuracy was due to "primer uniformity", something he found hard to find.
I'm still trying to figure out how he could figure out the difference from one good primer in a batch to one that was not ? :wacko:
Variance of a 10th of a grain of powder, shell or bullet weight in a round makes a difference.
Then again, if/when you want to challenge "spinning the plate" again, just lmk. 8) O0 :shaka:
:rofl:
PM me what days work for you.
#NotARealUh
Post by: macsak on February 12, 2021, 07:05:12 PM
Rockette wants to shoot .308 for Valentines Day (At's my Gurl :love:) but Sundays are usually NoGo so maybe we'll try later in the week.
PM me what days work for you.
#NotARealUh
#RocketteRocks
Post by: Heavies on February 12, 2021, 08:31:20 PM
You probably will not get anywhere near the lands in a factory remington barrel. The bullet will fall out of the case. 😆 lol
Post by: drck1000 on February 12, 2021, 09:54:18 PM
I would start at max mag length, work on powder charge, then all you need to do is seat deeper and test for best COAL. Going plus and minus the COAL is too much work and too much expended components.That's the plan. I have a few different mags, but the Magpul ones are significantly more limiting. The metal AICS mags have much more space. Once I get a full set of brass prepped, including annealing, I'll start with a set of 20 or so powder charge test. Will likely narrow down to two powders and then move to seating depth as max mag and then reduce. Will see what my seating die is capable of.
You probably will not get anywhere near the lands in a factory remington barrel. The bullet will fall out of the case. 😆 lol
Yup about my barrel. I measured the with the Hornady COAL gauge. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but yeah, pretty much no chance with 175 gr. I was originally planning to try the heavier boolits and just single feed. But want to get a mag capable load developed first. That means 168-175 gr range. Was looking at Berger hybrids, but feedback I read on those were that they aren't ideal for mag length seating.
Post by: Heavies on February 15, 2021, 06:24:49 AM
That's the plan. I have a few different mags, but the Magpul ones are significantly more limiting. The metal AICS mags have much more space. Once I get a full set of brass prepped, including annealing, I'll start with a set of 20 or so powder charge test. Will likely narrow down to two powders and then move to seating depth as max mag and then reduce. Will see what my seating die is capable of.
Yup about my barrel. I measured the with the Hornady COAL gauge. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but yeah, pretty much no chance with 175 gr. I was originally planning to try the heavier boolits and just single feed. But want to get a mag capable load developed first. That means 168-175 gr range. Was looking at Berger hybrids, but feedback I read on those were that they aren't ideal for mag length seating.
Berger 168 hybrids are really good stuff. My best .308 load is with those projectiles and 8208 XBR. Hot load. Developed that load for 1k yards, however, that didn't materialize. The high BC allow them to stay supersonic past 1000.
I'll have to measure, but I seat them fairly deep in the case. The reports may be due to those who are errantly attempting to chase the lands.
Post by: drck1000 on February 15, 2021, 10:14:10 AM
Berger 168 hybrids are really good stuff. My best .308 load is with those projectiles and 8208 XBR. Hot load. Developed that load for 1k yards, however, that didn't materialize. The high BC allow them to stay supersonic past 1000.I am thinking about starting with the Berger 175 gr target BTHP. Mostly because they are in stock in a lot of vendors, whereas the 168s seem to be out everywhere.
I'll have to measure, but I seat them fairly deep in the case. The reports may be due to those who are errantly attempting to chase the lands.
The feedback I was reading on the 168 hybrids included direct feedback from Bryan Litz. Berger's chief ballistician. He is pretty active on a bunch of threads on the Hide. Yeah, seems like much of the feedback is specific to jump sensitivity. However, personal experience is very valuable to me. If you found good (or at least decent results) with the 168s seated fairly deep, that does very much interest me. As well as renews my interest in them.
When you mentioned "Developed that load for 1k yards, however, that didn't materialize". Are you referring to the completion of the load development? Or the event/opportunity to shoot 1k?
The trans sonic performance of the SMK 168 gr is a big reason I went to the 175 gr. I didn't get to shoot the FGMM (factory) 168 gr beyond 400 yards very much. However, since I had decent results with the 175 gr, that was encouraging. I still want to try the 185 gr and heavier loads eventually, but the velocities based on load data are pretty darn slow. First things first though. Which current plan is more work with the SMK 175 gr and Bergers in 168/175 for mag length. Then see what's next.
Post by: drck1000 on February 16, 2021, 12:37:01 PM
Just noticed the feedback you included in the quotes.
1) Did you try this method ?
It's a good starting point.
2) That post was just to harass you as his "perspective" was 60% of rifle accuracy was due to "primer uniformity", something he found hard to find.
I'm still trying to figure out how he could figure out the difference from one good primer in a batch to one that was not ? :wacko:
Variance of a 10th of a grain of powder, shell or bullet weight in a round makes a difference.
1) Not sure what method you mentioned. I just saw you post a bunch of load data, which depending on what platform I bring it up on, typically comes out with the alignment messed up, so I couldn't make sense of it. At least quickly. In general, I'm following the methodology of Erik Cortina, F-Class John, and a couple other folks. Essentially all the same basic method/process.
2) Gotcha on the primer uniformity. I'm going to order a primer tool (like 21st Century) that is supposed to be better for primer seating consistency. I've been doing primers on a Dillon 550. It's fast and easy, but also not the best primer uniformity (including of course operator error/inconsistencies). Then there are some folks that I've been following that have been weighing and sorting their primers. I'm not going there, but it's interesting that those folks chase down. As well as it seems like even for their peers, the primer weight sorting get the range of responses. Maybe 1/4 hell no, 1/4 no but interesting, 1/4 yes I do, then the last 1/4 that are yes but won't admit it in group discussion with other shooters. As for personal experience, hell, I am just happy that I got a decent amount of LRP.
Post by: Rocky on February 16, 2021, 02:22:42 PM
Just noticed the feedback you included in the quotes.
1) Not sure what method you mentioned. I just saw you post a bunch of load data, which depending on what platform I bring it up on, typically comes out with the alignment messed up, so I couldn't make sense of it. At least quickly. In general, I'm following the methodology of Erik Cortina, F-Class John, and a couple other folks. Essentially all the same basic method/process.
2) Gotcha on the primer uniformity. I'm going to order a primer tool (like 21st Century) that is supposed to be better for primer seating consistency. I've been doing primers on a Dillon 550. It's fast and easy, but also not the best primer uniformity (including of course operator error/inconsistencies). Then there are some folks that I've been following that have been weighing and sorting their primers. I'm not going there, but it's interesting that those folks chase down. As well as it seems like even for their peers, the primer weight sorting get the range of responses. Maybe 1/4 hell no, 1/4 no but interesting, 1/4 yes I do, then the last 1/4 that are yes but won't admit it in group discussion with other shooters. As for personal experience, hell, I am just happy that I got a decent amount of LRP.
method # 1 was the cutting of the case mouth
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=38874.msg350067#msg350067
#2 I'll take all of those "non-uniform" primers off your hands.n :D
That 1 or 2 moa aint gonna ruin my game. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: drck1000 on February 16, 2021, 02:51:17 PM
method # 1 was the cutting of the case mouth#1 - I'll check.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=38874.msg350067#msg350067
#2 I'll take all of those "non-uniform" primers off your hands.n :D
That 1 or 2 moa aint gonna ruin my game. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
#2 - I don't discriminate on primers. Just separated by brand and magnum or non-magnum. I'll "choot um all".
Not saying it would ruin anything. However, any variable to eliminated or reduce, all the better. But I am NOT going to weight sort my primers.
Post by: drck1000 on February 17, 2021, 10:50:07 AM
I'm still doing load development with Fed brass and SMK (primarily 175 gr). Still have lots to learn, particularly with getting the annealing and resizing down for MY process. So now I'm trying to stay ahead of things and have components that I envision that I will eventually get into, which right now is Lapua brass and Berger boolits.
Post by: Heavies on February 17, 2021, 09:03:32 PM
I am thinking about starting with the Berger 175 gr target BTHP. Mostly because they are in stock in a lot of vendors, whereas the 168s seem to be out everywhere.
The feedback I was reading on the 168 hybrids included direct feedback from Bryan Litz. Berger's chief ballistician. He is pretty active on a bunch of threads on the Hide. Yeah, seems like much of the feedback is specific to jump sensitivity. However, personal experience is very valuable to me. If you found good (or at least decent results) with the 168s seated fairly deep, that does very much interest me. As well as renews my interest in them.
When you mentioned "Developed that load for 1k yards, however, that didn't materialize". Are you referring to the completion of the load development? Or the event/opportunity to shoot 1k?
The trans sonic performance of the SMK 168 gr is a big reason I went to the 175 gr. I didn't get to shoot the FGMM (factory) 168 gr beyond 400 yards very much. However, since I had decent results with the 175 gr, that was encouraging. I still want to try the 185 gr and heavier loads eventually, but the velocities based on load data are pretty darn slow. First things first though. Which current plan is more work with the SMK 175 gr and Bergers in 168/175 for mag length. Then see what's next.
I didn't find them sensitive to jump at all. I think the load I am shooting is jumping .020 or .030", IIRC. The VLD's are the ones that like to be close to the lands. I've tried those and they are way too finnicky. The whole design concept of the hybrids are the High BC of the VLD's secant ogive, but the ease of tuning of the tangent style of ogive.
The "however, that didn't materialize" was referring to the range not allowing us the use of 1K for competitions. :'(
Post by: Heavies on February 17, 2021, 09:06:39 PM
Have been looking to plan ahead and pick up equipment and supplies for reloading for a while. Bad timing for that stuff in general, so just trying to be patient and keep an eye out for things coming back into stock and especially in vendors that offer the items at non-inflated prices. Have been seeing a lot of the components that have been out of stock for a while starting to come back into stock. Rifle brass and specific boolits among them. For over a month, some of the components had sold out quickly and have been out at all vendors for a while. I've seen most of the stuff I'm looking for come back into stock at one vendor at a time, but now have been seeing the stock come back in multiple vendors, so I am able to shop around. Thankfully have found the brass and specific boolits that I've been looking for in stock and at decent prices. Some vendors have limited stock and some vendors are limiting the amount that they will offer in a single purchase or address. But promising that I'm seeing stocks come in.
I'm still doing load development with Fed brass and SMK (primarily 175 gr). Still have lots to learn, particularly with getting the annealing and resizing down for MY process. So now I'm trying to stay ahead of things and have components that I envision that I will eventually get into, which right now is Lapua brass and Berger boolits.
Be careful with using those Federal brass for reloading. That brass is too soft and thin to be reloaded much. They are notorious for getting case head separation after only a few reloadings. I would just go ahead and use Lapua brass, and be done with it. Of course you'll need to anneal the necks to get the max life out of them. I have Lapua brass on the 10th plus firing, with no signs of it giving up.
[/size][/color]Also, you will also need to retune your load when you change brass anyway....
Post by: drck1000 on February 17, 2021, 09:22:49 PM
Ahh. Gotcha on the 168s. Will def order next time they come in stock at a vendor that isn’t at inflated prices.
I didn't find them sensitive to jump at all. I think the load I am shooting is jumping .020 or .030", IIRC. The VLD's are the ones that like to be close to the lands. I've tried those and they are way too finnicky. The whole design concept of the hybrids are the High BC of the VLD's secant ogive, but the ease of tuning of the tangent style of ogive.
The "however, that didn't materialize" was referring to the range not allowing us the use of 1K for competitions. :'(
Sucks at the range thing. Darn. 1k was one of the big reasons I joined SRGC, but never got to shoot that distance. They had the occasional range day, but I wasn’t able to make it out the rare days they opened the 1k.
Post by: drck1000 on February 17, 2021, 09:34:31 PM
Yeah. Heard that from others about the Fed brass. My hesitation is the learning curve that I expect with the annealing. I’m already trying to factor in the sacrificial brass for the annealing setup. My Fed brass is mostly in the second firing. I have prob 500+ total, so I was thinking lots to learn on.Be careful with using those Federal brass for reloading. That brass is too soft and thin to be reloaded much. They are notorious for getting case head separation after only a few reloadings. I would just go ahead and use Lapua brass, and be done with it. Of course you'll need to anneal the necks to get the max life out of them. I have Lapua brass on the 10th plus firing, with no signs of it giving up.[/size][/color]Also, you will also need to retune your load when you change brass anyway....
I just got 300 Lapua in recently I have a few hundred more on the way, so I have a good amount. Ahh, might as well jump right in with the Lapua. I also got some once fired and resized Lapua brass from a very kind and generous 2a member. So maybe that will be my test brass for annealing.
If powder was in better supply, I’d say I wouldn’t mind having to retune my loads. But powder isn’t in great supply. Just hope I don’t eff up too much brass as I get started with annealing.
Or I should’ve just bit the bullet and got an AMP Annealer :(
Post by: drck1000 on February 19, 2021, 02:57:23 PM
Ordered annealer almost 4 weeks ago now. Projected lead time when I ordered was 1-2 weeks. Not a huge deal as not really urgent. However, update was that the supplier has a bunch of annealers are waiting on one part. A part that they had ordered many weeks ago, but supply issues due to COVID. :kickcan:
Founds some sales on some boolits though. :geekdanc:
Post by: macsak on February 19, 2021, 07:20:23 PM
Darn COVID. . . >:(
Ordered annealer almost 4 weeks ago now. Projected lead time when I ordered was 1-2 weeks. Not a huge deal as not really urgent. However, update was that the supplier has a bunch of annealers are waiting on one part. A part that they had ordered many weeks ago, but supply issues due to COVID. :kickcan:
Founds some sales on some boolits though. :geekdanc:
heads
Post by: drck1000 on February 22, 2021, 09:17:18 AM
Post by: macsak on February 22, 2021, 11:09:40 AM
Ordered a Forster Co-ax over the weekend. The expected lead time is 21-30 days, at least at the vendor I ordered from. It had been tracking as 3-4 month lead times, then recently updated to less and days were counting down on the vendor's website. So I am assuming that the vendor is expecting a shipment in. I emailed Forster on the lead times on their website, but it seems like they aren't giving timelines and are focusing on fulfilling orders with their vendors.
nice
Post by: drck1000 on March 01, 2021, 10:43:53 AM
When I ordered, the website indicated anticipated lead time 1-2 weeks, which went to 2-3 weeks after I placed the order. So overall not bad with a 5 week to ship.
Good timing as I am about to start load development now that I have Lapua brass in, and also the Berger boolits I wanted on the way. I'll still need to load up the Lapua brass for initial round of testing. I had initially planned on fire forming at least a batch of brass, probably 50 or so for initial powder charge testing. However, now I'm thinking I'm just going to dive straight in to the powder charge weight testing. I'm currently planning on starting with Varget and 8208. From what I've been researching, I'm leaving toward just starting the testing with the new brass, as opposed to after fire forming. My gun is a factory chamber/barrel in 308 (not wildcat caliber).
Have all of the components in. I'll continuing the search for more powder and primers, but I'm definitely ok to get started.
Post by: macsak on March 01, 2021, 11:35:05 AM
Annealeez shipped today. Seems like they finally got their part supply issue resolved, at least for this batch.
When I ordered, the website indicated anticipated lead time 1-2 weeks, which went to 2-3 weeks after I placed the order. So overall not bad with a 5 week to ship.
Good timing as I am about to start load development now that I have Lapua brass in, and also the Berger boolits I wanted on the way. I'll still need to load up the Lapua brass for initial round of testing. I had initially planned on fire forming at least a batch of brass, probably 50 or so for initial powder charge testing. However, now I'm thinking I'm just going to dive straight in to the powder charge weight testing. I'm currently planning on starting with Varget and 8208. From what I've been researching, I'm leaving toward just starting the testing with the new brass, as opposed to after fire forming. My gun is a factory chamber/barrel in 308 (not wildcat caliber).
Have all of the components in. I'll continuing the search for more powder and primers, but I'm definitely ok to get started.
heads
Post by: drck1000 on March 01, 2021, 02:22:15 PM
I'm at least a few months from seriously pursing a "next rifle", but leading idea is custom action and barrel for .308. Right now, I'm in the 168-175 gr range, with potentially going into the 185-200 gr range. All would fit with the generous freebore in my current factory action rifle, but I would rather have the chambering closer to the 168-175 gr boolits.
I am in the research phases of this. Still have plenty of life in my current rifle and plenty of growing to do with my reloading learning process. I think I will be getting there eventually. With the lead times in some of the custom actions in the 3-4 month range, I want to start the process ahead of time.
If I'm not careful, I'll be going down the AR path with two different precision rifles going concurrently. :-\ :-X :crazy:
Post by: Heavies on March 01, 2021, 05:55:25 PM
Have any of you had a new barrel chambered to replace an existing rifle/caliber? Did you have the chamber dimension, including freebore, "fit" to a specific boolit? Or did you target a range of boolits?
I'm at least a few months from seriously pursing a "next rifle", but leading idea is custom action and barrel for .308. Right now, I'm in the 168-175 gr range, with potentially going into the 185-200 gr range. All would fit with the generous freebore in my current factory action rifle, but I would rather have the chambering closer to the 168-175 gr boolits.
I am in the research phases of this. Still have plenty of life in my current rifle and plenty of growing to do with my reloading learning process. I think I will be getting there eventually. With the lead times in some of the custom actions in the 3-4 month range, I want to start the process ahead of time.
If I'm not careful, I'll be going down the AR path with two different precision rifles going concurrently. :-\ :-X :crazy:
My custom target rifle is chambered in "95 Palma" which has a very short freebore to accommodate 155 grain projectiles. I have used deep seated 308 boolits from 155 to 185. Of course the large bullets take up a lot of room for powder, so heavy projectiles can't be driven as fast. The chamber shoots lights out with 155 grain SMK tipped, and even better with 168 Berger hybrids.
All that being said. I don't chase the lands and am happy to be jumping bullets 20 or 30 thou
Talking about one puka @ 100yards and head of golf tees at 300
Post by: drck1000 on March 01, 2021, 06:17:53 PM
My custom target rifle is chambered in "95 Palma" which has a very short freebore to accommodate 155 grain projectiles. I have used deep seated 308 boolits from 155 to 185. Of course the large bullets take up a lot of room for powder, so heavy projectiles can't be driven as fast. The chamber shoots lights out with 155 grain SMK tipped, and even better with 168 Berger hybrids.Pics or video, or it didn't happen. ;D
All that being said. I don't chase the lands and am happy to be jumping bullets 20 or 30 thou
Talking about one puka @ 100yards and head of golf tees at 300
I just got a bunch of Berger 168 gr hybrids and 175 gr target boolits in to test with. The 168 grs are hard to find, so I have less of those. I mean I can find them in stock at some places, but at about 20-25% premium. I am ok with waiting on the suppliers with better pricing to get their stock in.
I am planning on varying seating depths for sure, but will be starting with mag length and shorter. I am ok with going beyond mag length, but probably not until later. I almost bought a bunch of the Berger 185 hybrids and 200.20x, but the "less room and lower velocity" is what kept me from going there, at least not yet. For now, I've decided to stick with the 168 - 175 gr range since I've been testing with SMK 175 gr. For now, I'm jumping "lots of" thous. . . ;D
Post by: ren on March 01, 2021, 06:29:30 PM
Pics or video, or it didn't happen. ;D
I just got a bunch of Berger 168 gr hybrids and 175 gr target boolits in to test with. The 168 grs are hard to find, so I have less of those. I mean I can find them in stock at some places, but at about 20-25% premium. I am ok with waiting on the suppliers with better pricing to get their stock in.
I am planning on varying seating depths for sure, but will be starting with mag length and shorter. I am ok with going beyond mag length, but probably not until later. I almost bought a bunch of the Berger 185 hybrids and 200.20x, but the "less room and lower velocity" is what kept me from going there, at least not yet. For now, I've decided to stick with the 168 - 175 gr range since I've been testing with SMK 175 gr. For now, I'm jumping "lots of" thous. . . ;D
I can vouch. I pulled targets for him and the tees exploded.
Post by: drck1000 on March 01, 2021, 06:32:49 PM
I can vouch. I pulled targets for him and the tees exploded.What about your targets?
But seriously, a golf ball is challenging enough at 300, let alone a tee. I remember when there ware folks ball on that deer at around 250-270 when they had fun stuff at Koko Head.
Post by: ren on March 01, 2021, 07:37:07 PM
Post by: Heavies on March 01, 2021, 10:39:11 PM
Pics or video, or it didn't happen. ;D
I just got a bunch of Berger 168 gr hybrids and 175 gr target boolits in to test with. The 168 grs are hard to find, so I have less of those. I mean I can find them in stock at some places, but at about 20-25% premium. I am ok with waiting on the suppliers with better pricing to get their stock in.
I am planning on varying seating depths for sure, but will be starting with mag length and shorter. I am ok with going beyond mag length, but probably not until later. I almost bought a bunch of the Berger 185 hybrids and 200.20x, but the "less room and lower velocity" is what kept me from going there, at least not yet. For now, I've decided to stick with the 168 - 175 gr range since I've been testing with SMK 175 gr. For now, I'm jumping "lots of" thous. . . ;D
Here's a 10 round group, if I remember correctly, of the 155 load after sighting into the X ring.
This was about 4 years ago when I tuned that load...
Don't have one of the golf tees, lol. It tears up the target. 🤣
Ren is a much better shooter than I am. Prone off a bipod and bag only has you concentrating on a few of the base fundamentals. More of a wind reading game after you have all your equipment dialed in. Position shooting is much more demanding on all aspects of riflery.
Can't find my test target pic for the 168's. I think it's on my old computer.
Post by: drck1000 on March 01, 2021, 10:49:08 PM
Here's a 10 round group, if I remember correctly, of the 155 load after sighting into the X ring.Nice!
This was about 4 years ago when I tuned that load...
Don't have one of the golf tees, lol. It tears up the target. 🤣
Ren is a much better shooter than I am. Prone off a bipod and bag only has you concentrating on a few of the base fundamentals. More of a wind reading game after you have all your equipment dialed in. Position shooting is much more demanding on all aspects of riflery.
Can't find my test target pic for the 168's. I think it's on my old computer.
Yeah, I was just teasing you and Ren. I understand, or think I do, about the challenges of shooting service rifle. When I first got into ARs, I was going to put together one to try shooting at Puuloa, but never got around to it. That was around the time I had to take care of a family member with health problems, so I wasn't shooting much at that time. By the time I got the shooting bug back, more training opportunities opened up locally, so got consumed with that. I have shot some improvised shooting positions in some of those classes, but not anywhere near competition standards. Then there's also the mental and stress aspects of competition shooting. I have one buddy who is awesome if you give him all the time needed to make an accurate shot, even at distance. Put him on a timer or head to head against someone, all mess up. ;D
Now that I'm back into shooting longer range, I have become more appreciative about wind reading. I wish we had better variety of ranges to practice on. The ranges that I am able to shoot at have limited wind indicators. I mean there are some and I have to learn to read what is available, but the terrain also adds another dimension to those dynamics. All fun, mostly.
Post by: drck1000 on March 09, 2021, 10:08:42 AM
Have most of the updated loading equipment in now. Added a PMA Tool expander mandrel. It measured out as 0.3065 on the calipers, so right around where I wanted it. I used it on the initial pass of loading for the new Lapua brass and did notice a good amount of resistance when running the mandrel. Will see if that changes once this set of brass gets through the sizing process, where I have a Redding S-type sizing die with a range of bushings.
I have my seating die set at maxing out the COAL at "max mag length". Then will go from there. That's probably a couple of steps in the future, but in the plans.
Post by: drck1000 on March 14, 2021, 10:10:33 AM
I am transitioning to Lapua brass and implementing the dies that I bought specifically to be able to have more refined sizing and boolit seating. Another adjustment is implementation of an expander mandrel to get more consistent neck tension. I have a PMA Tool expander mandrel and die body. The mandrel calipered out to 0.03065.
I changed out the trigger to a TriggerTech Special 2-stage. I really like this trigger. Not that the Geissele was bad, just wasn't quite what I wanted. I'll have to tweak the trigger pull, or get used to it, but overall it was great. I noticed that on my digital trigger pull gauge that the spread of the TriggerTech was much less.
Some highlights from this past weekends range session:
1) Have noticed the SD in the test batches seemed to have done down when compared to previous tests with the same boolit and powder charge, but different brass and boolit seating depth. I had one SD down to 2.4. I'll have to compare the before and after implementing the expander mandrel, but from what I recall, all of the SDs were lower.
2) I had gone with boolit seating depth to get the COAL able to fit in my Accurate Mag mags. They have a little bit more space than my Magpul mags. I assumed that that was the controlling dimension. Noticed the second round in the mag would hang up. I tried to check to see if the rounds were getting hung up inside the mag, but that was fine. Anyways, when I got home, I noticed that there's a slight lip below the feed ramp where the mag body hits a "stop". The lip has a very slight overhang over the mag front lip, which catches the tip of the boolit. So I will have to reduce the seating depth a bit and try again. I am planning on doing seating depth tests and going toward the 2.800" COAL, but I do want to do the powder charge testing on the max length. So a little bit of tweaking to go.
The annealer came in, so I'm pretty close to complete with everything for the whole process that I envisioned. I will likely do another round of initial testing with new Lapua brass and then get into the powder charge testing for the combo that I decide on. Right now, it's between 8208, Varget, 4064, and H4895 for powders, and between Berger 168 gr and 175 gr. Sucks that the Berger 168 gr are way harder to find than the 175s. I have some 168s and there are a couple of vendors with them in stock, but around 30%+ higher prices. So I am trying to hold off until other vendors get some in stock.
Post by: ren on March 14, 2021, 10:35:58 AM
looking back at exploding golf tees - it was a reminder to wear eye pro even in the pits
Post by: drck1000 on March 14, 2021, 10:51:35 AM
Weird. I've tested loads with SDs all over the place but the load still grouped well. Maybe it's because of my cheap Shooting Chrony. As an Asian person armed with an abacus I decided not to pursue load testing any further. After borescoping my barrels something is kicking in...Yeah. I will have to look at my notes, but in the initial testing with Varget and 8208, the lowest SD didn't correspond to the best group. But that was early on and too many human variables to say either way. I mean, I'm still there, but just noticed that the SD from same test loads before expander mandrel were higher across the board.
looking back at exploding golf tees - it was a reminder to wear eye pro even in the pits
I'm afraid to see what my Rem 700 barrel looks like. When I get around to a new gun or barrel, I'll check it out. Bartlein has def caught my attention. If it wasn't for registration situation here, I'd likely have ordered a new action already.
Post by: drck1000 on March 18, 2021, 09:24:00 AM
So slight change of plan. First will be either proceed with 175 SMK or Berger 175 gr LRBT and maintain COAL of 2.800" and get best load via different powders and powder charges. Once I have a load for with magazine feeding, I'll move onto "non-constrained" with single feeding. I'll have to look at options more, but I was initially thinking of Berger 168 gr hybrids. That boolit seems to have an great blend of lighter weight to maintain velocity and high BC. I mean I can still load the 168s to 2.800", but been hearing that's going against the main intent of the 168 hybrid design. I had also looked into 185 gr and higher, which my chamber can accommodate, but the velocities on those would suffer.
Post by: macsak on March 18, 2021, 09:42:47 AM
Was getting ready for what OAL I needed to pull back to in order to facilitate functioning via magazines. I thought I would have more space to try longer, but looking closer at the lip at the feedramp, I don't think I have much space beyond 2.800ish. With the Accurate Mag body itself, I have quite a bit of space, but didn't notice the lip at the feedramp until I was at the range for some load testing and noticed that the rounds were hanging up.
So slight change of plan. First will be either proceed with 175 SMK or Berger 175 gr LRBT and maintain COAL of 2.800" and get best load via different powders and powder charges. Once I have a load for with magazine feeding, I'll move onto "non-constrained" with single feeding. I'll have to look at options more, but I was initially thinking of Berger 168 gr hybrids. That boolit seems to have an great blend of lighter weight to maintain velocity and high BC. I mean I can still load the 168s to 2.800", but been hearing that's going against the main intent of the 168 hybrid design. I had also looked into 185 gr and higher, which my chamber can accommodate, but the velocities on those would suffer.
that's not what she said...
Post by: drck1000 on March 18, 2021, 09:52:58 AM
that's not what she said...That's some interesting "she"s that you talk to then. . .
Post by: drck1000 on March 30, 2021, 09:08:51 AM
I also picked up some H4895 at SEC recently, so will do some testing with that as well. Right now, leaders are Varget and 8208. I have heard really good things about H4895, and IMR 4895 to a certain extent as well, so really looking forward to trying that one. Plus I'll have 4064 for 30-06 loads, where I've been reading really good things about 4064 for Garands.
Post by: drck1000 on April 21, 2021, 08:12:02 AM
Got around to setting up and using the Annealeez. It was an upgrade version, which after figuring it out (instructions were not helpful) it seems to be decent. The attachment for the flame nozzle was "hinky" and hose was awkward. Found a mod to address both on YT. I got the parts in, but just have to make time to implement. The mod is a different flame nozzle and attachment.
My Forster Co Ax press arrived yesterday. That was one of the remaining main items for my reloading plans. Probably won't have a chance to set it up for at least a couple of weeks, but looking forward to trying it. Oh yeah, and eff Optics Planet and their backorder estimates. When I place the back order, it was estimated in a few weeks. About a week after the order, it changed to much longer. It's now showing shipping estimated in August.
Post by: drck1000 on June 18, 2021, 10:19:18 AM
So question for you centerfire reloaders. Do you ALWAYS stick with charge weights less than the manual? No matter the velocity you're seeing? Or do you usually push a little beyond the max charge weight and watch for signs of overpressure? I spoke to a few shooting buddies and the responses ran the range. I hope to get to doing the powder charge tests soon and my initial thought was to go beyond the max charge by maybe 2-3 steps (0.2 gr increments). It would be 2x per charge weight, so not a whole lot of effort.
Post by: ImKu on June 18, 2021, 02:14:37 PM
So question for you centerfire reloaders. Do you ALWAYS stick with charge weights less than the manual? No matter the velocity you're seeing? Or do you usually push a little beyond the max charge weight and watch for signs of overpressure? I spoke to a few shooting buddies and the responses ran the range. I hope to get to doing the powder charge tests soon and my initial thought was to go beyond the max charge by maybe 2-3 steps (0.2 gr increments). It would be 2x per charge weight, so not a whole lot of effort.
[/quote]
I’d say as long as you’ve worked up to the max charge. For example min: 37.5gr max: 41.6gr If my current load development took me to 39gr, I wouldn’t jump to the max but work it up to there watching for over pressures (I ended up at 42.9gr). I would also say it depends on the goals of your loads. I went over to get better velocities when I was able to shoot up to 600yrds. If you’re doing the same, it makes sense to me to go over max. I’m actually re-doing my development process to find nodes below max charge (no need high velocity at 100yrds). I don’t anneal, and going over max charge worked the brass (had to toss brass at 5-6 reloads, loose primer pockets).
Some things to take into consideration for pressure differences (from books or online data like https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center) COAL if you are limited in length for a magazine, different primers/powders, and case volume. Good luck! :shaka:
Post by: drck1000 on June 18, 2021, 03:09:48 PM
I’d say as long as you’ve worked up to the max charge. For example min: 37.5gr max: 41.6gr If my current load development took me to 39gr, I wouldn’t jump to the max but work it up to there watching for over pressures (I ended up at 42.9gr). I would also say it depends on the goals of your loads. I went over to get better velocities when I was able to shoot up to 600yrds. If you’re doing the same, it makes sense to me to go over max. I’m actually re-doing my development process to find nodes below max charge (no need high velocity at 100yrds). I don’t anneal, and going over max charge worked the brass (had to toss brass at 5-6 reloads, loose primer pockets).
Some things to take into consideration for pressure differences (from books or online data like https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center) COAL if you are limited in length for a magazine, different primers/powders, and case volume. Good luck! :shaka:
Thanks! I will be working up the max charge, at least that was the plan when I was laying out the charge weights for the different powders. Have put that off since I switched to Lapua brass. So have been loading/shooting 5 - (5) rounds groups as I gear up to the "real" brass prep process.
Goal for this particular round is finding the best load for this gun. Then see how that translates to longer range, which I consider the 400-1000ish range. I'm not necessarily chasing higher velocity, just wondering what's up there. I understand that .308 is somewhat hamstrung for 1000, but I've had decent success working up a load with Fed brass and Sierra. I just think I can to better. If I stick with this long range stuff, I'll likely transition to some 6/6.5 mm stuff.
I'm working at 2.810" ish for now. I want to work up a load for mag length/use. Then eventually play with the seating depth. I have two different bullets as well. One which is meant for mag length (2.810" COAL) and one that is meant (at least from what I read) for seating longer, where I will have to single load.
Post by: ren on June 18, 2021, 03:09:55 PM
Finally was able to get back to the range to shoot some test loads I rolled for Berger 168 gr hybrids. Still in the initial phases of load development as I gradually get my brass prep process down with annealing and new press setup (eventually). I've had good results with Federal brass and Sierra bullets, so have quite a bit of data to compare to Lapua/Sierra and Lapua/Berger combos with the same powder. Also using those data points to compare to the Sierra and Berger manuals. Seems like the Sierra manual has higher overall max charge weights and slightly higher velocities than the Berger manual. For the Fed/Sierra combinations, the sweet spot seemed to be well below the max charge weight and velocity, but just something interesting that I noticed.
So question for you centerfire reloaders. Do you ALWAYS stick with charge weights less than the manual? No matter the velocity you're seeing? Or do you usually push a little beyond the max charge weight and watch for signs of overpressure? I spoke to a few shooting buddies and the responses ran the range. I hope to get to doing the powder charge tests soon and my initial thought was to go beyond the max charge by maybe 2-3 steps (0.2 gr increments). It would be 2x per charge weight, so not a whole lot of effort.
I always watch loads that are over max in publications. Also some powders are more temp sensitive than others. I look at the primers and case after firing.
Post by: drck1000 on June 18, 2021, 03:20:32 PM
I always watch loads that are over max in publications. Also some powders are more temp sensitive than others. I look at the primers and case after firing.For the "max in publications" do you stick to say the manual for the given bullet? Or the powder? Or both?
Temp sensitivity. That is one variable that I haven't been tracking. I started this journey in the "winter time", but definitely cooler temps on average than now. I don't have that much data to compare, but the differences between Fed/Sierra and Lapua/Berger for the same bullet and powder charge have seemed pretty close. If I had to guess (don't have my notes with me), I would say within about 20-30 fps for average V.
I've been regularly keeping an eye on primers. As I shoot them, I line up the brass in order, just in case I felt something different in a shot, I can go back and look at which brass. Then I look at the primers before putting the brass back into the box. After switching to Lapua, been a lot more consistent. When I was using Fed brass, noticed loose primer pockets where the primers were proud seemingly at random. Have gone exclusively to Lapua since then.
Post by: ren on June 18, 2021, 04:02:08 PM
For the "max in publications" do you stick to say the manual for the given bullet? Or the powder? Or both?
Temp sensitivity. That is one variable that I haven't been tracking. I started this journey in the "winter time", but definitely cooler temps on average than now. I don't have that much data to compare, but the differences between Fed/Sierra and Lapua/Berger for the same bullet and powder charge have seemed pretty close. If I had to guess (don't have my notes with me), I would say within about 20-30 fps for average V.
I've been regularly keeping an eye on primers. As I shoot them, I line up the brass in order, just in case I felt something different in a shot, I can go back and look at which brass. Then I look at the primers before putting the brass back into the box. After switching to Lapua, been a lot more consistent. When I was using Fed brass, noticed loose primer pockets where the primers were proud seemingly at random. Have gone exclusively to Lapua since then.
I use manuals as a guide but not an absolute. Rule of thumb is that stick powders are less sensitive to temperatures and ball powders are more sensitive. I haven't tested that out.
Post by: drck1000 on June 24, 2021, 09:33:33 AM
I use manuals as a guide but not an absolute. Rule of thumb is that stick powders are less sensitive to temperatures and ball powders are more sensitive. I haven't tested that out.Understood. I tend to think of them as guidance, but I'm very much still new to this. I do have buddies who view them as absolute limit, as well as guidance. Just interested in what other folks do. I assume the range.
I have started to track more on burn rates on the powders I have for loading for .308. Will track the temps closer.
Post by: drck1000 on July 31, 2021, 09:41:07 AM
Post by: Ocean19 on August 01, 2021, 02:26:28 AM
Custom action ordered and now starts the waiting game. Damn, some of these components have long lead times. . . Looks like mid-October at the earliest. I hope that the timelines quotes are conservative, but no real rush. Need some time to save up some $$$ from OT for the new optic. ;DWhich action and barrel are you going with?
What’s the barrels twist rate?
Post by: drck1000 on August 01, 2021, 09:24:57 AM
Which action and barrel are you going with?Defiance and Bartlein.
What’s the barrels twist rate?
Post by: Ocean19 on August 01, 2021, 11:22:47 PM
Defiance and Bartlein.
Nice whats the wait on that bad boy?
Post by: drck1000 on August 02, 2021, 07:34:02 AM
Nice whats the wait on that bad boy?Looks like Oct (likely into November). Most of the wait is for the chassis though. Defiance action wait (at least what I was told) was "just" 6-8 weeks. I ordered a few weeks ago though. Not in any rush. Just getting in line.
Post by: Ocean19 on August 04, 2021, 01:28:42 AM
Looks like Oct (likely into November). Most of the wait is for the chassis though. Defiance action wait (at least what I was told) was "just" 6-8 weeks. I ordered a few weeks ago though. Not in any rush. Just getting in line.
You getting just the action and installing the barrel yourself?
What chamber you going with on the barrel?
Post by: drck1000 on August 04, 2021, 06:58:09 AM
Custom build. This one is .308. Have a 6.something in early planning stages.
You getting just the action and installing the barrel yourself?
What chamber you going with on the barrel?
Post by: drck1000 on August 16, 2021, 08:42:21 AM
Initial plans are for H4350, Hornady 140 gr ELDs, and Lapua brass LRP. I was able to find some H4350. Will keep an eye our for Hornady ELDs and maybe some Berger 140gr(ish) hybrids or something like those.
For brass, starting with LRP, mostly because that's what I have. That and finding SRP are like unicorn farts. I was doing some research and nothing definitive on LRP vs SRP. Lots of personal preference and plusses/minuses each side. Overall, my (still relatively rookie) perspective is focus on consistency in whatever I do first, limiting variables. Hopefully availability SRP returns. That said, I do prefer to streamline components. Varget is supposed to be decent to good for 6.5 CM, which is one of my faves for .308. Too bad H4350 isn't common for .308 Win, but heard that some folks have had good success with that powder. My faves for .308 is Varget and 8208 leaders, with IMR 4064 still promising.
Post by: drck1000 on September 15, 2021, 08:38:17 PM
Just need the dies. Oh, and the barreled action…
Post by: macsak on September 15, 2021, 08:47:21 PM
Just need the dies. Oh, and the barreled action…
heads
Post by: Ocean19 on September 23, 2021, 12:33:02 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210923/f05d6cfbffcadf4dbbc2e4330accff11.jpg)
Post by: drck1000 on September 23, 2021, 07:13:59 AM
Ordered a barrel… should I be concerned about harmonics?Dunno. Whack yourself in the head a few times and check the pitch. . .
SNIP
Post by: 808Hunta on September 24, 2021, 07:30:29 PM
Ordered a barrel… should I be concerned about harmonics?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210923/f05d6cfbffcadf4dbbc2e4330accff11.jpg)
Nice, what did you order? For your BR?
I just got in some barrels, stocks and a chassis as well. But might be a little til l get things going.
Post by: 808Hunta on September 24, 2021, 07:31:12 PM
Dunno. Whack yourself in the head a few times and check the pitch. . .:rofl:
Post by: Ocean19 on September 24, 2021, 11:32:50 PM
Nice, what did you order? For your BR?What calibers are you going to run?
I just got in some barrels, stocks and a chassis as well. But might be a little til l get things going.
Post by: 808Hunta on September 24, 2021, 11:57:30 PM
What calibers are you going to run?Calibers are 243/6mm, 264/6.5mm, 284/7mm and 308
Cartridges are looking like 280 AI, 7mm-08, 6.5x47 lapua, 6x47 lapua, 6BR, 6.5 Sherman, 30 Sherman magnum. Possibly another 6.5x284 and 243 AI with Bartlein 400MODBB Barrels. All the short action gonna be switch barrel off a defiance currently a 6XC.
Post by: Ocean19 on September 24, 2021, 11:59:39 PM
Calibers are 243/6mm, 264/6.5mm, 284/7mm and 308Holly hell you don’t mess around!!!!
Cartridges are looking like 280 AI, 7mm-08, 6.5x47 lapua, 6x47 lapua, 6BR, 6.5 Sherman, 30 Sherman magnum. Possibly another 6.5x284 and 243 AI with Bartlein 400MODBB Barrels. All the short action gonna be switch barrel off a defiance currently a 6XC.
Do you chamber your own barrels?
Post by: drck1000 on September 25, 2021, 06:48:57 AM
Holly hell you don’t mess around!!!!So…. What did you order? ???
Do you chamber your own barrels?
So you can test the “harmonics” ;D
Post by: 808Hunta on September 25, 2021, 08:21:55 AM
Holly hell you don’t mess around!!!!
Do you chamber your own barrels?
I wish lol unfortunately I don't chamber my own. Short action stuff Marc Soulie is doing and the long action stuff Chad Dixon. Waiting on some chamber reamers and go gauges for the wildcats.
Post by: drck1000 on September 25, 2021, 09:41:33 AM
Calibers are 243/6mm, 264/6.5mm, 284/7mm and 308Whoa! That’s quite a quiver in the works! What size animal is the 7mm have in it’s sights?
Cartridges are looking like 280 AI, 7mm-08, 6.5x47 lapua, 6x47 lapua, 6BR, 6.5 Sherman, 30 Sherman magnum. Possibly another 6.5x284 and 243 AI with Bartlein 400MODBB Barrels. All the short action gonna be switch barrel off a defiance currently a 6XC.
The 6.5x47 Lapua is another interesting one for my interests. I was thinking of that one as alternative to 6.5 CM.
6.5x284 seems popular for a wide range of uses as well. The more I get into .308, I want to refine and get better at that cartridge, but also see the potential for other cartridges. Sticking with get better at that I have now with loading setup for .308 and eventually with 6.5 CM. But other cartridges are always “calling my name”.
Post by: 808Hunta on September 25, 2021, 02:52:41 PM
Whoa! That’s quite a quiver in the works! What size animal is the 7mm have in it’s sights?
The 6.5x47 Lapua is another interesting one for my interests. I was thinking of that one as alternative to 6.5 CM.
6.5x284 seems popular for a wide range of uses as well. The more I get into .308, I want to refine and get better at that cartridge, but also see the potential for other cartridges. Sticking with get better at that I have now with loading setup for .308 and eventually with 6.5 CM. But other cartridges are always “calling my name”.
Howzit Bradda
Pretty much whatever hawaii has to offer lol. It's getting to be a real pain traveling with firearms around the world. It's doable just getting to the point of hating the hassle lol. I had one years ago and always regretted selling it so wanting one back in the stable.
Yeah my current 6.5x47 lapua is quite heavy. So doing one with a bartlein CFW Barrel that's much lighter. Love the cartridge.
Yeah I built my first 6.5x284 Norma for my son. He loves it, I enjoy it a lot as well. Now that bartlein came out with their mod400bb barrels thinking of doing another one and another 243 AI. I just love to tinker lol nothing wrong with 308 bro it's a great cartridge. I've killed more game with that cartridge than I could ever remember lol. It's still one of my faves. My daughter's like the 6mm's so I work with them much more lol.
During this day and age burning north of 150 gr of powder per shot is counter productive lol so I moved away from the big stuff for awhile.
Great to see your experience grow my bradda. And all the knowledge as well
Happy shooting and loading, Aloha
Post by: Ocean19 on September 25, 2021, 03:08:57 PM
So…. What did you order? ???Waiting on an HV 6BR 26” bartlien barrel.
So you can test the “harmonics” ;D
I was reading mixed responses on the bolt action forums about heavier barrels. Some say there easy to tune with hand loads and some say for ultimate accuracy you will may need a tuner just because the barrel is so thick that minor changes in seating depth or powder load makes such a small diff down range.
Is the inside donut on the brass a concern? Some say yes and some say no.
Does neck turning make a difference? Some say yes and some say no.
Who knows depending on caliber, brass prep, powder, barrel, and chamber it all comes down to having to experiment based on what you have.
I’ve been following articles and videos of Lou Merdica who does a lot of testing. Interesting to hear his comments about what works and what doesn’t. He says if it doesn’t work at a 100 yards forget any distance further out.
I was also looking at a 30br. Interesting cartridge for target shooting and there was a section talking about hunting for those interested in that discipline.
Post by: drck1000 on September 25, 2021, 04:00:47 PM
Waiting on an HV 6BR 26” bartlien barrel.I think you're WAY over analyzing things. Or at least my perspective is that at a certain point, you're going to just have to try and find out for yourself. JMHO. Knowing full well the variety of feedback one gets on forums, and not just this forum. Ideally, you find folks where their interests align with yours and that helps. But there are many folks that some of this stuff is academic (as in they don't really shoot all that much) or they don't give a lot of context of what their use is.
I was reading mixed responses on the bolt action forums about heavier barrels. Some say there easy to tune with hand loads and some say for ultimate accuracy you will may need a tuner just because the barrel is so thick that minor changes in seating depth or powder load makes such a small diff down range.
Is the inside donut on the brass a concern? Some say yes and some say no.
Does neck turning make a difference? Some say yes and some say no.
Who knows depending on caliber, brass prep, powder, barrel, and chamber it all comes down to having to experiment based on what you have.
I’ve been following articles and videos of Lou Merdica who does a lot of testing. Interesting to hear his comments about what works and what doesn’t. He says if it doesn’t work at a 100 yards forget any distance further out.
I was also looking at a 30br. Interesting cartridge for target shooting and there was a section talking about hunting for those interested in that discipline.
I had a discussion with my gun builder on tuners or brake and just tune via hand loading. Luckily, his shooting preferences or interests aligned decently (not the same) as mine. That and there are many who are able to tune their setups for similar caliber, distances and accuracy expectation. Personally, I'm not striving for ultimate accuracy. If I were, I probably would have gone with a setup way different, and closer to the F-Class or benchrest setups. I watched a few of the Lou Merdica videos, as well as some that are on the "members section" of a forum. While that guy has seemingly been there and done that, not quite been doing what I am looking to do. If you are looking to do that, that will be awesome. And looks like quite expensive, as well a tremendous amount discipline to get there. They buy barrels but bunches, powder but the 100s of pounds, whole lots of bullets, etc. Craziness! But I can understand that that's what it takes (or can take) to get to their level.
Post by: drck1000 on September 25, 2021, 04:03:13 PM
Howzit BraddaNever thought about it that way. Shooting say 6 mm cartridges would take a lot less powder than .308. Maybe in the 10-20% less range. Like a sale rate on powder. ;D
Pretty much whatever hawaii has to offer lol. It's getting to be a real pain traveling with firearms around the world. It's doable just getting to the point of hating the hassle lol. I had one years ago and always regretted selling it so wanting one back in the stable.
Yeah my current 6.5x47 lapua is quite heavy. So doing one with a bartlein CFW Barrel that's much lighter. Love the cartridge.
Yeah I built my first 6.5x284 Norma for my son. He loves it, I enjoy it a lot as well. Now that bartlein came out with their mod400bb barrels thinking of doing another one and another 243 AI. I just love to tinker lol nothing wrong with 308 bro it's a great cartridge. I've killed more game with that cartridge than I could ever remember lol. It's still one of my faves. My daughter's like the 6mm's so I work with them much more lol.
During this day and age burning north of 150 gr of powder per shot is counter productive lol so I moved away from the big stuff for awhile.
Great to see your experience grow my bradda. And all the knowledge as well
Happy shooting and loading, Aloha
I am certainly enjoying my adventures in shooting and reloading for precision. Just wish I had more time to put into being in the loading room and at the range. Hopefully will be back at it soon.
Post by: Ocean19 on September 25, 2021, 05:22:12 PM
I think you're WAY over analyzing things. Or at least my perspective is that at a certain point, you're going to just have to try and find out for yourself. JMHO. Knowing full well the variety of feedback one gets on forums, and not just this forum. Ideally, you find folks where their interests align with yours and that helps. But there are many folks that some of this stuff is academic (as in they don't really shoot all that much) or they don't give a lot of context of what their use is.Yes I see those peoples comments, forum gods and show up to the range and shooting is horrendous or NRA instructors who have questionable gun handling skills. I guess it’s all subjective.
I had a discussion with my gun builder on tuners or brake and just tune via hand loading. Luckily, his shooting preferences or interests aligned decently (not the same) as mine. That and there are many who are able to tune their setups for similar caliber, distances and accuracy expectation. Personally, I'm not striving for ultimate accuracy. If I were, I probably would have gone with a setup way different, and closer to the F-Class or benchrest setups. I watched a few of the Lou Merdica videos, as well as some that are on the "members section" of a forum. While that guy has seemingly been there and done that, not quite been doing what I am looking to do. If you are looking to do that, that will be awesome. And looks like quite expensive, as well a tremendous amount discipline to get there. They buy barrels but bunches, powder but the 100s of pounds, whole lots of bullets, etc. Craziness! But I can understand that that's what it takes (or can take) to get to their level.
I’m not over Analying, I just notice the trends of comments and what people are considering important and not important.
But I do notice people generalize and make assumptions which is all too common.
Sharing info as to what works for them with data is always the best. But no matter if they have the same so called parts for reloading or shooting they don’t do everything the same as another individual.
Like everything else it’s all subjective until you do it yourself. What works for one person may not work for another results may vary.
Post by: Ocean19 on September 25, 2021, 05:39:24 PM
Post by: 808Hunta on September 25, 2021, 08:36:50 PM
Never thought about it that way. Shooting say 6 mm cartridges would take a lot less powder than .308. Maybe in the 10-20% less range. Like a sale rate on powder. ;DHahaha true that!
I am certainly enjoying my adventures in shooting and reloading for precision. Just wish I had more time to put into being in the loading room and at the range. Hopefully will be back at it soon.
Glad to hear it I'm in the same boat at the moment. Working on the bedroom so loading room is storage at the moment lol So just trying to get these barrels etc done
Post by: macsak on September 25, 2021, 08:45:38 PM
Yes I see those peoples comments, forum gods and show up to the range and shooting is horrendous or NRA instructors who have questionable gun handling skills. I guess it’s all subjective.
I’m not over Analying, I just notice the trends of comments and what people are considering important and not important.
But I do notice people generalize and make assumptions which is all too common.
Sharing info as to what works for them with data is always the best. But no matter if they have the same so called parts for reloading or shooting they don’t do everything the same as another individual.
Like everything else it’s all subjective until you do it yourself. What works for one person may not work for another results may vary.
ocean19 always over analying...
Post by: drck1000 on October 16, 2021, 09:33:23 AM
Post by: Inspector on October 16, 2021, 12:07:02 PM
Most of the components in for 6.5 setup. Dies, bushings, brass, heads, powder, etc. Need to pick up some cleaning supplies and an expander mandrel. The ETA for the rifle is still over a month, so have plenty of time. Debating on holding out for some sales over the holidays.What powder and heads are you starting out with?
Post by: drck1000 on October 16, 2021, 12:18:39 PM
What powder and heads are you starting out with?6.5 - Hornady ELD match 140 gr, Lapua LRP brass and H4350. That powder and bullet combo seems highly recommended online as well as with my gun builder (their crew shoots a lot)
308 - My current 308 that shows most promise is Berger 168 and 175 gr, Lapua LRP brass and Varget and 8208 show the most promise. Now that I have the new 308 coming, not sure if I'll continue with the current gun that much. I have a bunch of powders to try as well. H4895, IMR 4064 (showed good results with current 308), and some random other powder. Plan is to use some of those that don't make the cut with .308 for 1903 30-06.
Post by: drck1000 on December 29, 2021, 10:42:16 AM
Plan is to start with around 40-60 FGMM 168 gr to sight in, barrel speed up, etc. Then plan is to start with Varget and 8208. I have quite a bit of good data from the Rem 700 on those two powders. Will likely try others along the way, but figure start where I have a decent baseline.
Goal for the .308 is to have the load work well at mag length. Max OAL for my mags are 2.950 & 2.960, so have quite a bit of room to play. The gun was setup with that in mind and reported FB is 0.065". I checked the jam point the other night, but haven't compared to factory FGMM that I have on hand yet. If the "best" results work out to be longer than mag length, that's fine too though.
The 6.5 CM will come later. I am waiting for some Hornady 140 gr ELD Match ammo to come in. I want a baseline with factory ammo to compare to. I have some other Hornady factory ammo, but the ELD-M ammo is on the way. Plus, I have to wait for the scope for the 6.5.
Upgrading loading setup as well. Will be (finally) setting up my Forster Co-Ax press. I've had it for many months, but just never set it up. I also have new SAC dies that I picked up over Christmas. Have the sizing side for 6.5 CM and the seating die is for all 30 cal family, so good for .308 and 6.5 CM. I don't think I'll get into other stuff, or at least any time soon. ;D
Post by: drck1000 on February 20, 2022, 10:28:40 AM
Really excited about the new dies. Also have the sizing dies for .308 Win and 6.5 CM. The seating die seems spot on, or at least better than my Forster seating die.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220220/c4d39f47d3fe7ff503b4fac05b9696b2.jpg)
Post by: drck1000 on March 05, 2022, 11:05:17 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220305/980b4c9c3c371fa6c3a91d5d98da83fc.jpg)
Post by: drck1000 on July 28, 2022, 05:37:41 PM
Post by: ImKu on August 06, 2022, 10:04:26 AM
Hope this helps someone :shaka:
Post by: Heavies on August 06, 2022, 10:31:44 AM
The theory was, they were ‘softer’, as in the fire or spark was soft. That was said to give more consistent powder ignition.
When those primers got hard to find, I switched to CCI exclusively. They didn’t net as good ES/SD, however, I found them to be consistent and reliable.
Federal match primers are said to have a similar ‘soft’ ignition (good ES/SD), problem is that the primer cup is also soft material. That limits your max pressure that the primer itself can contain.
Post by: ImKu on August 06, 2022, 12:07:14 PM
Too bad it is difficult to find Wolf or other Russian LR primers now days. These primers net very good ES/SD numbers. And, as a plus, they were very cheap.
The theory was, they were ‘softer’, as in the fire or spark was soft. That was said to give more consistent powder ignition.
When those primers got hard to find, I switched to CCI exclusively. They didn’t net as good ES/SD, however, I found them to be consistent and reliable.
Federal match primers are said to have a similar ‘soft’ ignition (good ES/SD), problem is that the primer cup is also soft material. That limits your max pressure that the primer itself can contain.
Sucks is that I don’t see any signs of over pressure and my loads are not near max recommendations (previously I was, but ladder tested to a lower node) and the fact that I’ve stocked up on both Fed and Win. I’ll probably validate with a chrono and check velocity. I can say I was previously happy with my ES/SD numbers…
Post by: drck1000 on August 06, 2022, 01:23:35 PM
Sharing my reloading experience. Something I came across when I was reloading last night was the difference in diameter of Federal GM210 and Winchester WLR primers. Something I will now consider when using cases that have been used (I was using 6th shot Lapua brass) as I have signs of gas’s escaping (between primer and brass primer pockets) with Winchester primers even though the primer pockets are within go/no-go criteria.I check brass after each range session and typically before loading next firing. I haven't switched between primers within a batch/lot of brass, but good observation and reminder on variance that you noted. I do have some Winchester LRP, but haven't used any yet.
Hope this helps someone :shaka:
Post by: drck1000 on August 06, 2022, 01:27:28 PM
Too bad it is difficult to find Wolf or other Russian LR primers now days. These primers net very good ES/SD numbers. And, as a plus, they were very cheap.I had a chance to pick up a couple of brick of Wolf a while back, but went with Federal. I have also read good things about Wolf primers.
The theory was, they were ‘softer’, as in the fire or spark was soft. That was said to give more consistent powder ignition.
When those primers got hard to find, I switched to CCI exclusively. They didn’t net as good ES/SD, however, I found them to be consistent and reliable.
Federal match primers are said to have a similar ‘soft’ ignition (good ES/SD), problem is that the primer cup is also soft material. That limits your max pressure that the primer itself can contain.
I am primarily using CCi No. 200 and BR-2. However, mostly because of what I was able to buy. I have a bunch of Federal 210 and 210M. I don't have much of those, so waiting to decide which rifle/caliber I want to try and then hopefully dedicate all of it to that combination.
Post by: drck1000 on October 08, 2022, 10:32:48 AM
Post by: macsak on October 08, 2022, 10:37:27 AM
Waited months for these to come back in stock. And when it does, the range is closed.
Post by: drck1000 on November 23, 2022, 12:12:43 PM
https://www.brownells.com/reloading/primers/rifle-primers/small-rifle-benchrest-primers-1-000-box-sku749006109-40211-63472.aspx?sku=749-006-109&trk_msg=158QQ16VCDA4BETN2N2AQQJ650&trk_contact=J368T26GD5K2GGO48SVVQCV86C&trk_sid=F2OQ75I52MCQI6LQGU6R0IFSVK&trk_link=M334DUR7B164V434L67U0LEDJK&utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=CCI+Small+Rifle+Benchrest+Primers&utm_campaign=Reloading&utm_content=2022_11_23_CCI_Benchrest