2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: robtmc on February 06, 2021, 10:50:32 AM
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A while back, bought a Palmetto State 5.56mm upper as a hedge against PIAPS election. False alarm, but never got around to assembling the thing during the ammo debacle.
Decided to give it a through going over before long term storage. Had one of those Amazon borescopes, so decided to check the un-fired (I thought) stainless barrel
Shocked to find several inches of barrel ahead of the chamber with very noticeable copper fouling. I suppose PSA test fires completed uppers, but enough to visibly copper foul the rifling?
Anyone seen this? Wondering if the barrel they used was a return or something.
Local shop does not carry any sort of copper solvent, so trying to remove it with Hoppes and a ton of scrubbing.
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I have a PSA upper as well - I didn't notice copper fouling. I think its hit or miss with these barrel houses - don't know where PSA sources theirs from. I just borescoped a Del Ton chrome plated one and it is the worst barrel I have ever seen.
In my limited experience if the barrel is finished rough it will copper foul quick.
(http://i.imgur.com/wJyDqCB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XEM1aFi.jpg)
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I can’t speak to your particular barrel/upper. But I do know that new, not broken in barrels tend to get copper fouling easily until things get broken in and smoothed out. I have a Remington 700 in .223 with R5 barrel that copper fouled for the first 100 rounds or so. Now, same bullets, same powder and 100-200 rounds with little to no fouling each range trip. I have a S&W 627 357 magnum that copper fouled bad and lead fouled even worse for the first 200 rounds or so. Every time I take it out now I shoot 200 or so rounds and if I’m shooting jacketed bullets I see little to no copper. And it does not lead any more either.
If you are really concerned about it I hear the CFE (Copper Fouling Eraser) line of powders from Hodgdon and IMR Enduron do a good job of keeping the copper from building up. I have no experience with them personally.
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But I do know that new, not broken in barrels tend to get copper fouling easily until things get broken in and smoothed out.
Good to know. This PSA barrel is certainly not a premium, so may be a bit rough.
Never used a borescopw before, so not sure what to expect to see. The amount of copper in a barrel not fired by me, direct from the factory just surprised me.
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Sorry, forgot about the rest of your post. Hoppes is okay but they do make a copper remover that works pretty well. A good bronze brush and a lot of patience will go a long way to help you get rid of it. I no longer keep copper remover in my cleaning kit because regular Hoppes will do okay on a small amount of fouling.
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you guys ever tried Tubbs Final Finish? I have a box I'm contemplating on using on this rough Del Ton barrel. I JB'd it pretty thoroughly last week and it still is pretty rough
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Sorry, forgot about the rest of your post. Hoppes is okay but they do make a copper remover that works pretty well.
A rude shock to find my local gun shop only carried CLP, Ballistol, etc. NO cleaning chemicals. Luckily have some Hoppes in my supplies.
Ordered some Montana X-Treme copper killer from Amazon.
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you guys ever tried Tubbs Final Finish? I have a box I'm contemplating on using on this rough Del Ton barrel. I JB'd it pretty thoroughly last week and it still is pretty rough
I’ve never used it before but have you just tried the old standby method of breaking in a barrel? one shot, clean. 2 shots, clean. 5 shots, 10, 20, 40, 60, 100 etc.
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I’ve never used it before but have you just tried the old standby method of breaking in a barrel? one shot, clean. 2 shots, clean. 5 shots, 10, 20, 40, 60, 100 etc.
I never did . Just loaded it up and shot it. The barrel is a 1MOA shooter with 77s but I can feel rough spots when I run patches through it.
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I never did . Just loaded it up and shot it. The barrel is a 1MOA shooter with 77s but I can feel rough spots when I run patches through it.
Not trying to be a dick here, Ren. Maybe just point out the obvious. But if the barrel is shooting 1MOA, why are you complaining?
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Midway sells and ships Boretech solvents. Both copper and carbon. I’ve been using Sharp Shoot’r solvents. Pretty good so far. That’s on my Rem 700 tho. For my ARs, I occasionally use the foaming bore snake. Though I don’t really clean my ARs as well as my 700.
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Not trying to be a dick here, Ren. Maybe just point out the obvious. But if the barrel is shooting 1MOA, why are you complaining?
I like smoove. The side effect of getting a borescope. Lots of talk about a smooth barrel and one that is rough but shoots good. Just like blinged brass vs non bling brass for reloading.
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I like smoove. The side effect of getting a borescope. Lots of talk about a smooth barrel and one that is rough but shoots good. Just like blinged brass vs non bling brass for reloading.
Okay, I get it. I clean my primer pockets, too.
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To me, the smoother the barrel, (1) the less potential damage from friction and rust, and (2) the easier to clean -- brushes and patches have less resistance and wear & tear going through.
One of the reasons they say to only run patches breech-to-muzzle is that's the direction the bullets travel, meaning you're less likely to snag a jagged edge. It's like rubbing a cat the "right " way vs. the "wrong" way.
Accuracy may not be the only factor. I think a rough surface just makes keeping it clean, oiled and rust-free a little more challenging.
As mentioned, once it's broken in, all these rough sections ought to be taken care of. During the break-in period, you may see changes in accuracy, too. Those changes may be a problem for you if accuracy is a big concern for you and you aren't expecting them.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. I'm not a gunsmith nor professional marksman. I've read that most new barrels don't require much break-in at all, but that doesn't mean it's not going to improve your results.
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I found a little container of J-B borepaste I got for ariguns. Will try a few passes with that for grins.
I know I am being OCD about this, blame the training I had when I was 17. Cannot stand to think some part of my weapons is not perfect.
Still remember when one of my DI's knew exactly where to swipe on a M-14 and find carbon.
God help us if they had compact borescopes during inspection!!!!!
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This bore picture really bugs me. How the hell did that mark occur?
Opposite the gas port hole??
(http://i.imgur.com/wJyDqCB.jpg)
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I have no clue. I've borescoped the PSA, a Krieger, a Douglas, a Shilen and FN and none have anything resembling that kind of mark. I'm guessing when they CL'd it they did a bad batch. Or could be the barrel material is junk.But it shoots MOA. That pic was before the port hole. Here's the gas port
(https://i.imgur.com/3co1LpF.jpeg)
good smiths like John Holliger of White Oak will drill the port hole in between lands not on it as seen. Does it matter? I don't know.
I'm going to run Tubbs Final Finish through this barrel
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well, 1 box of Tubbs Final Finish. Not much difference. SMoother cleaning but with some bulk 55 grainers I had - it shot 4-5 MOA. :wacko:
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Finally got my barrel down to bare metal, used a swab with the J-B bore paste.
Now I still wonder, how many test shots did PSA do to get that much fouling, the bore is not a hand lapped mirror, but not all that rough.
I do see why the shoot-clean-shoot break-in would work to smooth it out.
What ever happened to fire lapping, some years back it was all the rage?
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"Fire Lapping" was my stripper name. :geekdanc: :shaka:
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Feel the Burn!!!
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A while back, bought a Palmetto State 5.56mm upper as a hedge against PIAPS election. False alarm, but never got around to assembling the thing during the ammo debacle.
Decided to give it a through going over before long term storage. Had one of those Amazon borescopes, so decided to check the un-fired (I thought) stainless barrel
Shocked to find several inches of barrel ahead of the chamber with very noticeable copper fouling. I suppose PSA test fires completed uppers, but enough to visibly copper foul the rifling?
Anyone seen this? Wondering if the barrel they used was a return or something.
Local shop does not carry any sort of copper solvent, so trying to remove it with Hoppes and a ton of scrubbing.
They probably cut the chamber with a worn reamer. The throat most likely has a burr or rough spot. With rounds downrange it'll eventually beak in. I wouldn't worry about it unless it is really effecting accuracy.
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you guys ever tried Tubbs Final Finish? I have a box I'm contemplating on using on this rough Del Ton barrel. I JB'd it pretty thoroughly last week and it still is pretty rough
I've used Tubbs FF on my Garand that has a NOS barrel. It really helped clean it up and reduce copper fouling. The fouling would slightly affect accuracy after 30 or so rounds and was a PITA to clean out. The Tubbs FF did not make the rifle any more accurate, but it did help making it more consistent with it's accuracy during sustained fire.
It is not a match barrel, but it did help a little.
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As this was a PSA upper bought on sale, was not expecting anything. Just confused that the factory proof firing of ? number of rounds would copper it that much.
Not expecting bench rest accuracy from what was supposed to be a hedge bet against PIAPS getting in office. More of a FU than anything.
Have to say, that little Amazon borescope may be one of those things that tell you stuff you did not want to hear. I shudder to think what some of my older guns must have looked like.
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As this was a PSA upper bought on sale, was not expecting anything. Just confused that the factory proof firing of ? number of rounds would copper it that much.
Not expecting bench rest accuracy from what was supposed to be a hedge bet against PIAPS getting in office. More of a FU than anything.
Have to say, that little Amazon borescope may be one of those things that tell you stuff you did not want to hear. I shudder to think what some of my older guns must have looked like.
I think I might have to get one of those so I can see how bad some of my military barrels are. Especially my Mosin Nagant.