2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: zippz on February 20, 2021, 01:07:04 PM
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REMINDER: You must submit testimony for every hearing scheduled for the same bill.
SUPPORTING Testimony needed for HB534 The Right to Self Defense (formerly known as Stand Your Ground)
Hearing JHA committee Tuesday 2-23-21 2pm
We need SUPPORTING testimony for HB534 coming up for JHA hearing on Tuesday Feb 23rd at 2pm. This bill provides criminal and civil protections when you defend yourself from a violent criminal, removes the duty to retreat or give up possessions, and other protections. This will benefit gun stores and other retailers that have liability concerns during a robbery. The protections in this bill also apply when defending yourself anywhere you are allowed to be. HIFICO initially opposed this bill due to the original wording reduced self-defense protections. WE NOW SUPPORT THIS BILL AS IT WAS CHANGED TO INCREASE PROTECTIONS. SUPPORT this bill and make changes to your old testimony from the prior PDP committee hearing. Gun Stores – share your liability and crime concerns in your testimony and have other retailers do the same. Hearing is on Tuesday 2-23-21 at 2pm. Zoom video testimony requests must be made no less than 24 hours prior to the hearing.
We are planning to have a Zoom and Facebook Webinar on Sunday afternoon to go over the details in this bill as it can be confusing. I will send a follow up post.
Just want to iterate that this is a good thing. Rarely do we have good bills like this pass even one committee hearing.
https://hifico.org/hb534/
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=534&year=2021
(https://i.imgur.com/fK8swOD.jpg)
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The HB534 Right to Self Defense webinar is open to anyone and will give an overview of Hawaii's self-defense laws and how HB535 provides additional protections for victims of violent crime. This is a complex topic and this webinar will help you to understand HB534 and write your testimony for Tuesday's JHA committee hearing, provide oral testimony through Zoom, and topics to bring up with your district legislator.
Panelists include:
Megan Kau - Attorney
Michael Kitchens - Stolen Stuff Hawaii
Andrew Namiki Roberts - Hawaii Firearms Coalition
Sunday Feb 21 at 4pm (you can enter 5 min prior)
Watch on Facebook live: www.fb.com/hificoorg
Watch on Zoom: click the link below to join the webinar through a web browser or smartphone. You may need to install the Zoom application.
https://zoom.us/j/96645179797?pwd=OEtMTjJaQ0pLTjVaQ3k4bWR1TlZMdz09
Or iPhone one-tap :
US: +16699009128,,96645179797#,,,,*534534# or +12532158782,,96645179797#,,,,*534534#
Or Telephone:
Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location):
US: +1 669 900 9128
Webinar ID: 966 4517 9797
Passcode: 534534
References:
HB534 & status: https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HB&billnumber=534&year=2021
HRS 703-304 Use of Force in Self Protection: https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol14_ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm
HRS 703-306 Use of Force for Protection of Property: https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol14_ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0306.htm
Definitions and other information: https://law.justia.com/codes/hawaii/2016/title-37/chapter-703/
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The webinar went well and we are gaining a lot of attention on this with the general public. This in addition to the recent mass plea deals which release criminals with a slap on the wrist to clear out the backlog, release of criminals in jails and prisons, and the revolving door of justice is about to break cause it can't spin any faster. Even police are pissed that criminals are getting out as soon as they're arrested with no bail or charges.
Sorry I'm having difficulty uploading the webinar to youtube. Not sure if you can watch it on Facebook without an account:
https://fb.watch/3R4PQZxrdU/
Also Attorney Megan Kau talked about HB534 and increasing crime in Hawaii on KHVH radio this morning:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/stolenstuffhawaii/permalink/2872015179727809/
We are also pushing for SB334 which will have the state reimburse a victims legal fees and lost wages if they are found not guilty due to self defense in a criminal trial.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=334&year=2021
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Bill deferred (died). Was about a 350 support to 30 oppose in testimony. Many of the oppose testimony used the same language which was wrong. Most of them wrote they're worried about using deadly force if the person "believes" its necessary and how someone could lie about what they believed. Well that's already in the current deadly force law. Which means they don't know what our current law is.
Some law makers even asked good questions. Lopressi who took part in introducing the OG bill that removed place of business from the castle doctrine was concnered because he was in a situation recently with his kids at a park. Then again infront the police station in Chinatown. Even even state he supports EveryTown, but sounded like he wanted to support this bill. He even made HPD look stupid when they used an example of 2 guys shoving each other then 1 pulling a gun in the park. He mentioned the bill doesn't say gun, but deadly force and HPD was making an assumption.
And of course HPD and the prosecutors office opposed the bill.
So Moms Demand Action and Everytown made their first appearance for this session. Prob cause Rhodes made a phone call. But both their test were the same wording, see first sentence above. I expect them to be more involved for SB307 and SB301.
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Dang unfortunate that this died. Just when there is hope its gone.
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Michael Kitchens from SSH is going to try submit again next session. This is something that he is passionate about after seeing all the bad stuff come across his page. So we shall try again next year.
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Michael Kitchens from SSH is going to try submit again next session. This is something that he is passionate about after seeing all the bad stuff come across his page. So we shall try again next year.
Not intended as snark or criticism, but as a genuine question, what do you believe might be different enough next year/session for this bill (or any other extending any form of self-defense rights) to have a snowball's chance in hell of getting out of committee, passed by both chambers and signed by the governor?
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Dang unfortunate that this died. Just when there is hope its gone.
Pass, no pass, no matta to me. I goin do wateva it take fo defend myself, home and peopo an animals I lik.
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Meanwhile, that Honolulu polices chief promised to drag anyone that uses a firearm in defense through the hell of the "system".
Just to teach them a lesson, I suppose.
Better to just allow yourself to be killed or injured to avoid all that.
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Please remember, our movement is a long term project making small gains each year, and we just started a couple of years ago with a very small group of key leaders, 3 of us. Our end goal is to have thousands of people submit testimony, hundreds working with their legislator regularly, and dozens of groups and general public in support.
This is the hearing:
https://youtu.be/Vas2Pr4hrv4?t=4326
HB534 HD1/HB711 had a lot of grammer, administrative, and procedural flaws in it. The main problem is very few people know how self-defense laws work (even in the 2a community) and the misconceptions of stand your ground. There's a lot that happened with this bill, a lot in the background , and it's one of our greatest achievements even though it didn't pass. It may not seem like much, but these multiple small gains sets us on the right path for the future.
1. This was originally an anti self-defense bill. Our negotiations with the committee before the hearing and hundreds of testimonies (written and video) made it do a 180 and changed it to a pro self-defense bill and passed by a good margin in the strong anti-2A committee. When was the last time this happened? I was blown away.
2. For the sign waving event, we started getting the word out to the public about self-defense in this increasing crime climate. The news was interested. We found more allies in a smaller separate 2A group. And we started the beginnings of our women's 2A advocacy group.
3. We got the full support from Michael Kitchens and Stolen Stuff Hawaii, an audience of 100,000 mostly like minded members. This is likely going to be their advocacy push for the next year.
4. We go the full support from Attorney Megan Kau to add to our team of other attorneys. She did a couple interviews this week on the subject.
5. This was the first time we did a webinar discussion panel event which had something like 400 people attend live. This is something we scrambled to put together in only 2 days.
6. The written testimonies were beautiful. Many are well written which shows the effort our side puts into it.
7. Our side dominated the committee hearing with a lot of energy. Everything fell into place.
- Vice Chair started off "everyones favorite bill HB534" They must've been impressed with the testimonies and media.
- Everytown for Gun Safety paid lobbyist testified. She was reading a script, didn't know anything about it, and looked like she didn't want to be there.
- We had new testifiers, including some women and victims. Everything that we needed to cover was covered by everyone.
- The big event was Rep Lopresti, very anti-gun, gave a very emotional story of he and his kids having to face a crazy violent person at the park a couple weeks ago. He didn't know what to do. I felt sorry for him.
- The committee was very engaged. They had a lot of questions to ask.
The main obstacle is the confusion on what the bill does, understanding self-defense in general, and the stereotype that this will lead to murders. I could tell the committee members, incl anti-gun ones, had the increases of crime on their mind and were looking for a solution.
We need more of everything. The biggest thing we need is education to legislators and general public on self-defense and that this law isn't focused on guns and murder.
***Got some hot updates just now. This ain't over yet.***
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Not intended as snark or criticism, but as a genuine question, what do you believe might be different enough next year/session for this bill (or any other extending any form of self-defense rights) to have a snowball's chance in hell of getting out of committee, passed by both chambers and signed by the governor?
We need to plan ahead more. The OG bill was even presented by Lopresti and others that removed place of business in the castle doctrine. So the OG bill was super bad. Then it got changed to HB534 which is good. And even Lopresti seemed more on our side.
SSH got involved like only a few days before the hearing. So maybe if they were on board from the 1st submission of the the good castle bill, then the members could email their reps and the committee members to show support. Which is the plan for next session.
SSh has never supported any of our bills in the way they did with this one. So this is a huge step for us and to get Lopresti more on our side is also huge.
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We need to plan ahead more. The OG bill was even presented by Lopresti and others that removed place of business in the castle doctrine. So the OG bill was super bad. Then it got changed to HB534 which is good. And even Lopresti seemed more on our side.
SSH got involved like only a few days before the hearing. So maybe if they were on board from the 1st submission of the the good castle bill, then the members could email their reps and the committee members to show support. Which is the plan for next session.
SSh has never supported any of our bills in the way they did with this one. So this is a huge step for us and to get Lopresti more on our side is also huge.
who submitted/sponsored HB534?
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who submitted/sponsored HB534?
Eli. The OG bad one had like 5 cosponsors and 1 was Lopresti.
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Not intended as snark or criticism, but as a genuine question, what do you believe might be different enough next year/session for this bill (or any other extending any form of self-defense rights) to have a snowball's chance in hell of getting out of committee, passed by both chambers and signed by the governor?
Crime is getting worse. Police crime solving statistics are horrible. Yesterday a friend of mine was murdered in an affluent neighborhood so it is not just a poor people problem any more. Citizens of all political stripes are getting frustrated and angry at the revolving door system and the trail of bodies that our irresponsible officials try to blame on the vicim and their families whenever a tragedy happens. They do not care about us and everyone is getting sick of their shit.
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Eli. The OG bad one had like 5 cosponsors and 1 was Lopresti.
Gotta give McDermott credit. Ichiyama copied his good bill.
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Please remember, our movement is a long term project making small gains each year, and we just started a couple of years ago with a very small group of key leaders, 3 of us. Our end goal is to have thousands of people submit testimony, hundreds working with their legislator regularly, and dozens of groups and general public in support.
This is the hearing:
https://youtu.be/Vas2Pr4hrv4?t=4326
HB534 HD1/HB711 had a lot of grammer, administrative, and procedural flaws in it. The main problem is very few people know how self-defense laws work (even in the 2a community) and the misconceptions of stand your ground. There's a lot that happened with this bill, a lot in the background , and it's one of our greatest achievements even though it didn't pass. It may not seem like much, but these multiple small gains sets us on the right path for the future.
1. This was originally an anti self-defense bill. Our negotiations with the committee before the hearing and hundreds of testimonies (written and video) made it do a 180 and changed it to a pro self-defense bill and passed by a good margin in the strong anti-2A committee. When was the last time this happened? I was blown away.
2. For the sign waving event, we started getting the word out to the public about self-defense in this increasing crime climate. The news was interested. We found more allies in a smaller separate 2A group. And we started the beginnings of our women's 2A advocacy group.
3. We got the full support from Michael Kitchens and Stolen Stuff Hawaii, an audience of 100,000 mostly like minded members. This is likely going to be their advocacy push for the next year.
4. We go the full support from Attorney Megan Kau to add to our team of other attorneys. She did a couple interviews this week on the subject.
5. This was the first time we did a webinar discussion panel event which had something like 400 people attend live. This is something we scrambled to put together in only 2 days.
6. The written testimonies were beautiful. Many are well written which shows the effort our side puts into it.
7. Our side dominated the committee hearing with a lot of energy. Everything fell into place.
- Vice Chair started off "everyones favorite bill HB534" They must've been impressed with the testimonies and media.
- Everytown for Gun Safety paid lobbyist testified. She was reading a script, didn't know anything about it, and looked like she didn't want to be there.
- We had new testifiers, including some women and victims. Everything that we needed to cover was covered by everyone.
- The big event was Rep Lopresti, very anti-gun, gave a very emotional story of he and his kids having to face a crazy violent person at the park a couple weeks ago. He didn't know what to do. I felt sorry for him.
- The committee was very engaged. They had a lot of questions to ask.
The main obstacle is the confusion on what the bill does, understanding self-defense in general, and the stereotype that this will lead to murders. I could tell the committee members, incl anti-gun ones, had the increases of crime on their mind and were looking for a solution.
We need more of everything. The biggest thing we need is education to legislators and general public on self-defense and that this law isn't focused on guns and murder.
***Got some hot updates just now. This ain't over yet.***
i watched the video. i also submitted written testimony
i thought it went well for our side
Goo, the retired LEO, had a very good testimony. "over 35 years in law enforcement, and not once did I arrive in time to save anybody. I just made reports after the crime was committed." (not an exact quote, but close)
HIFICO had great testimony's as well. thank you HIFICO! :shaka:
i dont think current LEO's should be able to submit testimony bc they are law ENFORCEMENT, not law makers
dressed in uniform , in his office. looks very official. convincing to the law makers. but they are all in collusion.
cop says if this law passes, 2 guys in a park can get into an arguement and can draw their firearms and kill each other. this isn't a firearm bill. and this is Hawaii and we don't have conceal carry here, so nobody is carrying a firearm in a park legally unless they are a cop. this guy is just using scare tactics which he premeditated, bc i dont think he is that dumb. or maybe he is
everytown BS woman didn't know what she was talking about
but i agree it is a step forward for us. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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I don't believe there is substantial evidence to conclude that any Democrat in Hawaii will ever vote for any bill that could be considered by his constituents/voters to be "promoting gun violence" in even the most indirect roundabout way. Almost all the legislators are Democrats. They are almost all elected in very heavily-weighted Democrat voter registration majority districts. They owe their jobs to those voters, no matter how stupid or ignorant they are. The testimony could be 100 to 1, 500 to 1, or 1000 to 1 for a rights-restoration bill, and I predict they (all or almost all) will vote against it.
I can't imagine any scenario that will change 60-70% Democrat districts into ones that would elect MAGA type Second Amendment Republicans.
Change my mind.
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Change my mind.
Nothing lasts forever. It is against natural law.
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Crime is getting worse. Police crime solving statistics are horrible. Yesterday a friend of mine was murdered in an affluent neighborhood so it is not just a poor people problem any more. Citizens of all political stripes are getting frustrated and angry at the revolving door system and the trail of bodies that our irresponsible officials try to blame on the vicim and their families whenever a tragedy happens. They do not care about us and everyone is getting sick of their shit.
sorry about your friend, man
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Change my mind.
Stay tuned
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sorry about your friend, man
Thanks. He was a good kid and a hard worker. His life was going in the right direction.
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Nothing lasts forever. It is against natural law.
Well, yeah, "forever" is a long time. In that span the sun will burn out and the Democrat authoritarian fascist legislators of Hawaii will no longer hold sway... that's true. It's also true of course that likely no one will be alive in this solar system to be concerned about exercising their rights.
Stay tuned
Forever? ;)
Or is a system of permitless open carry of handguns, rifles and shotguns of any capacity magazines (you know, as in "shall not be infringed") going to be implemented by the Hawaii state legislature and governor before the sun burns out?
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Well, yeah, "forever" is a long time. In that span the sun will burn out and the Democrat authoritarian fascist legislators of Hawaii will no longer hold sway... that's true. It's also true of course that likely no one will be alive in this solar system to be concerned about exercising their rights.
Forever? ;)
Just wait until we colonize planets in other solar systems! Dems will prohibit guns on the spacecraft for flight safety, weight restrictions, etc.
Note to future generations: learn to use a light saber! :geekdanc: :wave:
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Meanwhile, that Honolulu polices chief promised to drag anyone that uses a firearm in defense through the hell of the "system".
Just to teach them a lesson, I suppose.
Better to just allow yourself to be killed or injured to avoid all that.
Oh, ok.
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HB534 is dead this year. There was a 2nd attempt to bring it back but there's just too many problems in it to fix and we ran out of time. I didn't realize how complex a law like this is as it has the language has to be good or a judge will throw it out, have to make sure it doesn't let criminals go free, and it has to be compatable with the rest of the HRS. We're going to try it again next year and start early along with having a good education campaign about it.
There was a surprising amount of support for this bill and it would've passed the House. However the Senate likely would've killed it, especially since it would need Rhoads or Kouchi's support.
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***Got some hot updates just now. This ain't over yet.***
Stay tuned
HB534 is dead this year. There was a 2nd attempt to bring it back but there's just too many problems in it to fix and we ran out of time. I didn't realize how complex a law like this is as it has the language has to be good or a judge will throw it out, have to make sure it doesn't let criminals go free, and it has to be compatable with the rest of the HRS. We're going to try it again next year and start early along with having a good education campaign about it.
There was a surprising amount of support for this bill and it would've passed the House. However the Senate likely would've killed it, especially since it would need Rhoads or Kouchi's support.
So... I stayed tuned... and it is over.
Not sure why you conclude "would've passed the House". And even if it did you acknowledge it would have been killed in the Senate. And even if it passed the Senate Ige would not sign it into law, he'd either veto it or possibly let it become law without his signature, but I'd guess veto... but that's all fantasy because it'll never (okay, not in the 21st century) pass the Senate, and I'll bet it'll never pass the House either. I mean barring the Big Change that is coming soon (?) to Hawaii politics in which everything flips 180 degrees. Can't wait.
I'll stay tuned.
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So... I stayed tuned... and it is over.
Not sure why you conclude "would've passed the House". And even if it did you acknowledge it would have been killed in the Senate. And even if it passed the Senate Ige would not sign it into law, he'd either veto it or possibly let it become law without his signature, but I'd guess veto... but that's all fantasy because it'll never (okay, not in the 21st century) pass the Senate, and I'll bet it'll never pass the House either. I mean barring the Big Change that is coming soon (?) to Hawaii politics in which everything flips 180 degrees. Can't wait.
I'll stay tuned.
do you feel better now?
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House members asked us to fix the bill so they could bring it back from deferral and it looks like we'd get 50 to 60% of the house vote. I don't know where we'd be in the Senate, likely losing since we worked more on the House side than Senate. Moderates are looking for something different that addresses crime since they can't control what the courts are doing and the overflowing jails. Creating tougher sentences doesn't work since they're all plead down or given minimal sentences, if at all. Moderates are against the progressive stuff. I think they're interested in this bill to appease the public. It's going to take a tremendous amount of work and money to get this through next year.
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do you feel better now?
Wanna wager on whether the happy-talk revised version of the bill will pass next session?
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Wanna wager on whether the happy-talk revised version of the bill will pass next session?
did i say that the bill would pass?
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did i say that the bill would pass?
Did I say you said the bill would pass?
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Did I say you said the bill would pass?
no, but why would you want to wager unless you thought that i think it will pass?
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no, but why would you want to wager unless you thought that i think it will pass?
Don't you know the meaning of a question mark?
I asked a question.
I never asserted nor assumed nor concluded what you "thought".
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Don't you know the meaning of a question mark?
I asked a question.
I never asserted nor assumed nor concluded what you "thought".
got it
no, i would not take that bet