2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: bong on August 09, 2012, 12:33:43 PM
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How much of a factor is the construction of a muzzle brake to be effective to reduce recoil and muzzle flip . I see muzzle brakes with ports on the top and side of barrels, and some has ports completely around the barrel. Does it make a difference?
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come into x-ring and talk to me. or call me afterhours.....too much technical aspects
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Definitely yes muzzle brake construction make a difference. One item that is very difficult to assess though is although the muzzle brakes work it's hard to determine what the muzzle flash would look like in low/no light situations.
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Hijacking thread.
Curious to know what everyone's opinion on Muzzle brakes are ?
I had to shoot next to a guy with a muzzle brake this weekend and I think if you use a muzzle brake, they SUCK for the guy next you. ( this one was on an AR )
That rifle was SOOO LOUD ! Felt like the blast was directly at me.
Do they make that much of a difference ?
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Depends how its designed. Certain brakes are loud. The ones i design are not loud out the sides.
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Depends how its designed. Certain brakes are loud. The ones i design are not loud out the sides.
Yep. Depends on the direction the gasses are vented/directed.
Ones like PWS FSC and Surefire vent primarily to the sides and if you are to the either side of the shooter, you'll hear and feel it. Others like BattleComp distribute around a little more and while not quite as loud as the FSC, it's till pretty loud for everyone else but the shooter.
Then there are ones like the Troy Claymore and the Noveske PIG which are designed to direct the gasses down range, so it helps minimize the sound and felt blast to the sides.
Do they make that much of a difference? In reducing or minimizing muzzle flip/movement/etc, yes. I've shot guns back-to-back with the standard A2, BattleComp and FSC and you can definitely feel the difference. I haven't done any comparisons with shot timers though. That said, only one of my guns has a BC and the rest have A2s (all ARs).
I've been next to a guy shooting a 338 Lapua with a side venting muzzle brake and it knocked over my spotting scope. I just made sure I was standing behind him when he was shooting. Haha.
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Remember the whole "for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction" thing? That's what we're talking about. The force of the exhaust gasses exiting the bore is where a significant portion of the recoil comes from. it doesn't take a lot of imagination to see that, effectively, you've put the nosecone of a small rocket to your shoulder and ignited the engine.
By redirecting some of that energy, you change the direction of the reaction. venting gasses out of opposite sides produces a null effect, like an isometric exercise. Venting out the top alone will exert a downward pressure on the muzzle, reducing (or even eliminating) muzzle flip.
If the venting is in the direction of another person, then yes, it will be louder for them.
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762x39 from an AR is a very violent round. A muzzlebrake is a must. With just a flash hider or none at all, the felt recoil is very strong.
2 rifles that we built with just flash hiders had problems with breaking scopes and parts coming loose. The parts were brand name and the just would not hold up on this caliber. Also both guns weighed in at 6lbs.
Also the re-aiming time is a lot less with a muzzlebrake.
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Hijacking thread.
Curious to know what everyone's opinion on Muzzle brakes are ?
I had to shoot next to a guy with a muzzle brake this weekend and I think if you use a muzzle brake, they SUCK for the guy next you. ( this one was on an AR )
That rifle was SOOO LOUD ! Felt like the blast was directly at me.
Do they make that much of a difference ?
was that on Sunday? Might have been me lol. I have PWS brakes on my AR and AK. People sometimes comment on it.
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762x39 from an AR is a very violent round. A muzzlebrake is a must. With just a flash hider or none at all, the felt recoil is very strong.
2 rifles that we built with just flash hiders had problems with breaking scopes and parts coming loose. The parts were brand name and the just would not hold up on this caliber. Also both guns weighed in at 6lbs.
Also the re-aiming time is a lot less with a muzzlebrake.
Curious to know the components involved. I have an AR10 with no muzzle brake, 20" barrel and have shot M118LR clone loads out of it with no ill effects. Armalite base with a Leupy. I doubt the 7.62 Soviet is harder recoiling than a 308 Win. In addition, M1s have no muzzle brake and I never managed to shoot things loose.
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How much of a factor is the construction of a muzzle brake to be effective to reduce recoil and muzzle flip . I see muzzle brakes with ports on the top and side of barrels, and some has ports completely around the barrel. Does it make a difference?
This past weekend I switched between my AK with FSC47 and my friend's AK with some kind of short, fat brake(?). I could definitely tell the difference. Although I couldn't rapid-fire, quick follow up shots were easier to get back on target
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Hijacking thread.
Curious to know what everyone's opinion on Muzzle brakes are ?
I had to shoot next to a guy with a muzzle brake this weekend and I think if you use a muzzle brake, they SUCK for the guy next you. ( this one was on an AR )
That rifle was SOOO LOUD ! Felt like the blast was directly at me.
Do they make that much of a difference ?
I think that they make a huge difference in felt recoil. I have a battlecomp on one of my AR's and I love it. A friend of mine has a PWS FSC556 on his AR. I think that the recoil reduction of the FSC is much better than the battlecomp but the muzzle blast of the FSC is insane. I was spotting shots for him on the side of the bench and it literally rattles my teeth. I have a FSC 47 on my AK and to be honest wasn't very impressed with that model. Could it be the piston design of the AK or maybe the round???? I chose a battlecomp because cosmetically it looks way better and has less muzzle blast. If you have the EXTRA money to spend I'd invest in one.
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muzzle. break. get it? haha ??? :-*
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Ok, serious answer. Here's an old school Smith video that clearly shows the value of a muzzle brake to combat muzzle rise. Watch the barrel during firing!
http://www.smithenterprise.com/misc/sig516.html (http://www.smithenterprise.com/misc/sig516.html)
on your AR I don't think recoil is much of a factor and money is better spent on a good flash hider. Even the A2 at under $10 works pretty dang good. Not much fun to look at though. Want fun then you can try out a hawg, claymore or flaming pig and throw fireballs :) Or just run a thread protector.
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ok back to fun!
muzzle. break. 2 :wtf:
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What are some of the better muzzle brakes that don't blow away the folks next to you ?
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What are some of the better muzzle brakes that don't blow away the folks next to you ?
Are you referring to just muzzle brakes or compensators too? Most muzzle breaks that I've seen have side ports. Compensators like BC, Dynacomp, or BCM comp are loud but not as bad as muzzle breaks IMO.
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Curious to know the components involved. I have an AR10 with no muzzle brake, 20" barrel and have shot M118LR clone loads out of it with no ill effects. Armalite base with a Leupy. I doubt the 7.62 Soviet is harder recoiling than a 308 Win. In addition, M1s have no muzzle brake and I never managed to shoot things loose.
You need to try our 762x39's as soon as we get it back, you are welcome to try it out.
I uploaded the videos to youtube
RST 762x39 Muzzle Brake Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1dvyuknCFU#)
RST Muzzle Brake Test 762x39 AR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB-phu6nLqY#)
223 Brake with Novice shooter barely holding the gun Real Steel Tactical 223 Muzzle Brake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBgROEDk_wo#)
Same MB762 muzzle brake on a Remington 700 with a 20" Barrel produced very little recoil. 100yard groupings with and without the brake were sub 1" using grey box Federal 150gr.
We tried it with both the brake on and off and the brake did not affect bullet placement.
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Are you referring to just muzzle brakes or compensators too? Most muzzle breaks that I've seen have side ports. Compensators like BC, Dynacomp, or BCM comp are loud but not as bad as muzzle breaks IMO.
Thanks Ku, I never thought of that.
Here's what I thought was good article comparing brakes vs. compensators.
And is also expands on Tom G's Newton thing. ( since I don't have a lot of imagination :( Just kidding around :love:)
Let me know if you guys agree with the assessment. Looks like I should look for a compensator vs a brake.
Either that or I'll just get a Noveske Pig and throw flames. :shake:
Cite is from http://kahntrol.com/muzzle-brakes-vs-compensators/ (http://kahntrol.com/muzzle-brakes-vs-compensators/)
Muzzle Brakes vs. Compensators
Posted on February 29, 2012 by Jeremy
Among many people there is a misconception that muzzle brakes and compensators are the same thing. This could hardly be further from the truth.
Firearm recoil is a combination of three different forces;
1. Newtons 3rd law, When the bullet starts moving it forces the firearm to start moving in the opposite direction, this force only last milliseconds.
2. Thrust, When the bullet leaves the muzzle the escaping gases provide thrust which allows the rearward motion of the firearm to continue.
3. Axial rotation, Except in rare instances, the barrel of a firearm is above the center of gravity of the firearm and any forces acting on the barrel are going to induce rotation around the center of gravity (commonly refered to as muzzle flip).
A muzzle brake is designed to arrest the rearward momentum created by the first 2 forces and in turn prevent the 3rd alltogether. The first force CANNOT be stopped, but it’s over so fast that without the thrust from #2 to continue the motion, the firearm would hardly move at all. However, the 2nd force, thrust, can be “caught” by the muzzle brake, which basically acts like a parachute catching the escaping gases. These gases are moving roughly 3-5 times the speed of the bullet and even though we think of gases as not weighing anything, they in fact do have weight/mass, and since energy is mass times velocity squared, even the minute weight/mass of the gases impact the brake with enough force/energy to stop the rearward momentum almost entirely.
A Compensator, Such as the ones you see on AR style rifles and competition pistols, are ONLY designed to mitigate #3, rotation or flip. They accomplish this, not by catching the gases, but by redirecting them to create thrust in the direction opposite the rotation imparted by the first 2 forces. Even though Compensators may reduce recoil slightly, their purpose is to control flip or muzzle rise.
In finishing, A Compensator is like a steering wheel, it “steers” the recoil. A Muzzle Brake is like, well, a brake, It Stops the recoil.
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trying sitting next to someone with the JP tank brake, rocks your bench, gun, and bags big time.....
the worst is the Miculek comps, those are really just plain nasty, blast is to the side....
PWS is also loud too.....
we did sit next to a guy shooting a 338 lapua with a brake about as big as my fist.... good thing he didn't shoot that many rounds and waited between shots so we could stand behind him....
Fire in the hole!!!!!
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https://armamentsales.netfirms.com/downloads/DeGroat%20Flash%20Enhancer.wmv
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trying sitting next to someone with the JP tank brake, rocks your bench, gun, and bags big time.....
Resurrecting this thread . . .
Anyone ever fire a rifle with the JP Recoil Eliminator? Or their Compensators? Their compensators looks like muzzle brakes, but as aieahound pointed out they are not the same.
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I have installed a lot of the JP RE on various and large caliber rifles, both semi and bolt actions. They did not meet up to my expectations.
I have also shot the JP Comps both on AR556 and Remington 700 308. Loud out the sides. Effectiveness. They work ok
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Thanks for the feedback Dex! :shaka: