2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: Southsyduh808 on August 14, 2012, 11:16:58 AM
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Hey guys! I'm new on the forums I currently have a Sig Sauer 516 Patrol W/ Aimpoint PRO red dot , Benelli Nova Pump Tactical 12 guage, and a Springfield Armory XD45 cal 5inch barrel... I'm looking to get. Bolt action Rifle in .308/7.62.... was thinking about getting a Tikka T3 or a remington 700 SPS, would like any advice possible you are willing to give, I don't know much people who own firearms, ohh and also any info on scopes also good for 100-400 yards with the bolt action... I just think this would complete my gun collection for now...maybe...
kinda on a budget for now... thanks
this one guy let me shoot his .338 bolt action at koko head which was pretty cool there are alotta cool guys out there! thanks in advance!
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Remington as long as not the cheap series.
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Remington as long as not the cheap series.
+1 on the Remington 700. If weight is not an issue then I suggest you look for the model with the Milspec R5 Barrel.
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Yep the 700 rems are beast you can get okay deals on used ones. They tend to hold their value well on the police models and similar ones. If you go the extra cash look for a used Robar on the mainland.
I've been looking for one too but I'm on a budget and can't afford to shoot the gun to often since I'm on a budget so the gun is on hold for a while. Look up a article that guns and ammo did earlier this year about 5 best rifles under $500 and I think the ruger American did real well for the price? Under $400 if I recall...
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http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/03/08/10-quality-rifles-for-under-500/ (http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/03/08/10-quality-rifles-for-under-500/)
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Other excellent rifle in the $750 range is the CZ's I had several CZ550's and they were excellent in fit and finish.
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Either the Tikka or the Remington should be good. Just consider a detachable magazine. I think having a detachable magazine (as opposed to a fixed magazine) in a bolt action is extremely convenient.
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If its a hunting/walking rifle I'd stay away from heavy barrels. Tikka t3 is a solid choice. Look into the Howa 1500's too.
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I would recommend Remington 700. I have a 700 SPS Tactical AAC and it's been a very solid gun so far. I haven't shot it in a while since I have been mostly shooting my pistols and AR, but when I get back to it, I will be upgrading the stock to probably a McMillan and upgrading the trigger. That's one advantage of the 700 series is that there are TONS of aftermarket support for those guns. They do have some lighter barrel and stock combinations that are intended more for hunters. The SPS Tactical series are shorter and heavier barrels.
For optics in your price range, I would recommend looking into Nikon Monarch and Vortex Viper lines. I have a Vortex Viper PST FFP and it's been great. I have the 4-16x50 and making shots out to 500 yards is easy. I hope to stretch that to 800 and beyond someday when I get the next opportunity to shoot at Schofield.
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Remington 700s have a great reputation. One thing to maybe think about would be getting a fairly standard-issue Remington 700 sporter. Here's what I'm thinking:
It sounds like you're getting into the more precision side of shooting for the first time; and a decent Remington will outshoot you for quite a while and do everything you need it to do, but it won't break the bank. That might be all the rifle you'll ever need, who knows? By the time you get to the point where you've surpassed the accuracy of the rifle, very likely you'll have figured out exactly what you like and don't like about the rifle, and you can make changes accordingly. Maybe you'll want a shorter barrel. Maybe you'll want a match-grade heavy barrel. Maybe you'll wish you had a super-duper tacticool stock that's adjustable for length of pull, cheek height, and penis size. You can then upgrade accordingly, because you've got a solid action to build a rifle around. That's what I'd do; but that's also provided my assumption that you're new to precision shooting is correct. YMMV.
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Savage bolt actions are very good as well. Also, they can be rebarreled with quality prefit tubes (from Mcgowen, Pacnor, Shilen) at home with a few tools and go gauges.
Usually Savages are very accurate right out of the box.
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Weatherby Vanguard, shoots straight and not bad for long hunting trips. Easy to sholder and carry along those all day hikes.
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There's a scoped Ruger for sale in the classifieds right now.
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=4076.0 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=4076.0)
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I second Inspector's suggestion with the Remington 5R. Best band for the buck IMO. Second I would go with a Remington 700 SPS AAC. And then quickly upgrade the stock.
You have to give a price range if you'd like scope recommendations. Don't forget decent rings and a base will set you back around $200 and then another $100 for a bipod.
Bolt action is good fun! Good luck
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IMHO a .308 with a 20" barrel is a waste. Unless you have it suppressed and are wanting to shoot heavy(long) subsonic projectiles.
The short barrel you loose velocity and waste powder. If you want a carbine get a carbine. If you want the best range (out of the balistically challenged .308) you need a barrel long enough to use the burning powder to propel the bullet. Not make a big fireball up front.
For hunting and 400 yards that will probably be fine. Just not optimal. Again JMHO.
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IMHO a .308 with a 20" barrel is a waste. Unless you have it suppressed and are wanting to shoot heavy(long) subsonic projectiles.
The short barrel you loose velocity and waste powder. If you want a carbine get a carbine. If you want the best range (out of the balistically challenged .308) you need a barrel long enough to use the burning powder to propel the bullet. Not make a big fireball up front.
For hunting and 400 yards that will probably be fine. Just not optimal. Again JMHO.
IMHO any 308 over 20" is a waist. most of the fps is gained under 20" and after that the gain per inch is nominal. 6mm, 6.5's, and Magnums is a totally different story. If you use the correct powder it shouldn't be waisted with a 20" or even 18" barrel. Also since it seems the rifle is going to be used between 100-400 yard the extra length will not justify the added weight and over all length of the rifle.
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IMHO any 308 over 20" is a waist. most of the fps is gained under 20" and after that the gain per inch is nominal. 6mm, 6.5's, and Magnums is a totally different story. If you use the correct powder it shouldn't be waisted with a 20" or even 18" barrel. Also since it seems the rifle is going to be used between 100-400 yard the extra length will not justify the added weight and over all length of the rifle.
That is fine, just throwing it out there that a 20" will be a limitation to the cartridge if the OP ever decided that longer range was desired. Free FPS, range, wind drift, and a balance between handling and performance is something to think about. All depends on the application.
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waste not "waist"
(http://www.usn.co.uk/images/waist_hips.png)
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Someone got that Cz.223 bolt action on here. Pretty good deal.
Of were you specifically looking for a .308?
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Necro'ing an old thread (apologies, Mods!).
Hate to admit it, but I am looking at possibly picking up a bolt action for target shooting.
Been watching tiburosaurus rex's vids to get some basic info, and doing my own looking into ballistic coefficients and such.
Question for you long time bolt action owners... if you could hit the "Re-Do" Button, what (if anything) would you have done differently with your bolt action purchase?
Barrel length? Caliber? Brand? Scope? Anything goes; I hope to learn from your experiences!
Thanks! :shaka:
SHould have bought a Tubb 2K when they were about $3000
(https://demigodllc.com/photo/6.5Creedmoor/inline_size/360/D462_4029_img.jpg)
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Necro'ing an old thread (apologies, Mods!).
Hate to admit it, but I am looking at possibly picking up a bolt action for target shooting.
Been watching tiburosaurus rex's vids to get some basic info, and doing my own looking into ballistic coefficients and such.
Question for you long time bolt action owners... if you could hit the "Re-Do" Button, what (if anything) would you have done differently with your bolt action purchase?
Barrel length? Caliber? Brand? Scope? Anything goes; I hope to learn from your experiences!
Thanks! :shaka:
What do you want to do with the rifle? Kokohead 100 yard small groups? Puuloa F-class? Target shooting with a little bit of hunting? Purpose drives the needs.... :)
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SHould have bought a Tubb 2K when they were about $3000
(https://demigodllc.com/photo/6.5Creedmoor/inline_size/360/D462_4029_img.jpg)
I should have did a repeater when I built mine.... Kicking self in ass.... Lol
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I should have did a repeater when I built mine.... Kicking self in ass.... Lol
what does the strap to his left wrist do?
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what does the strap to his left wrist do?
It is a sling. It goes under the hand and to the bicep area of the supporting arm to steady the rifle. When the sling and position is correct, it is as stable as a bipod and rest. Only your breathing disturbs the sights. If you have the right technique and practice, you can shoot bug holes at 100 yards, with iron sights and sling, on these types of match rifles.
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The new ruger American predator is looking really promising.
But that cz is super super sweet, I love my cz
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Purpose: target shooting @ KHSC, for fun and as a personal challenge. I am hoping to learn as much as I can, and eventually get involved in the goings-on @ Puuloa.
Not absolutely dead-set on .308, either, as a few other calibers look really intriguing (flatter trajectory, energy retention, less drop, greater velocity, etc.), and as others have pointed out, not sure about bolt vs. semi-auto.
Of course, availability/reloading of ammo is a big consideration, also.
If you want to have dead on consistent accuracy go with a bolt gun. Semis can be accurate, but IMHO not as consistently as a bolt.
A shorter barrel 20" 24" 26" is fine for what we got here. Caliber... If you want to end up at puuloa, take into consideration the restrictions of cartridges for that range. I had a 6MMBR I built at home with a 24" barrel that shot light out; that was awesome. It shot flat, projectiles were not bad price wise, it was easy to load develop, and it was miserly on power. I switched to .308 to get into F-TR and out of F-open, there was more people shooting in the .308 class(F-TR), hardly anyone in F-open.
Now if I could do a redo, I would have built a more tactical type bolt gun instead of the target rifle I built. I built my target rifle specific in anticipation for 1000yds at puuloa.... that fell through so now I have a nice gun with no other practical purpose(30" barrel, can go iron sights or scope, and weight close to 18lbs).... It still can do an outstanding job, just not practical for what is available here in Hawaii. Maybe in the future?
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Hate to admit it, but I am looking at possibly picking up a bolt action for target shooting.
Question for you long time bolt action owners... if you could hit the "Re-Do" Button, what (if anything) would you have done differently with your bolt action purchase?
Barrel length? Caliber? Brand? Scope? Anything goes; I hope to learn from your experiences!
Thanks! :shaka:
What type of budget are you working with? I started off with a Remington 700 thinking "budget build". Did a bunch of mods Spent alot of cash to make it how I liked it. It shot great, but I got it with a 20" barrel and when I really started getting into realoading my own ammo the velocity of my reloads was not where I wanted it to be. I could have swapped out and got a longer barrel installed but...
I then moved on to Accuracy International and got a AI AE MKIII in .308 w/ 24" BBL: http://www.eurooptic.com/accuracy-international-rifles.aspx (http://www.eurooptic.com/accuracy-international-rifles.aspx)
I would have gone this route from the start if I had to do it all over again. Great accuracy and so far reloading (finding a load that works well) was pretty simple as majority of anything I shot produced decent results even though I don't consider myself having a great shot. https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=10094.20 (https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=10094.20) Took it out to Puuloa a few times so far and was happy with the results.
As far as glass, I would buy exactly what you want the first time. Save up, and find what features you like in a scope.
I'm currently waiting for the release of this: http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/253102-new-steiner-t5xi-tactical-rifle-scopes.html (http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/253102-new-steiner-t5xi-tactical-rifle-scopes.html)
I also have a precision .308 semi, just started reloading for it so it's hard to make a fair comparison. So far, the bolt is way more accurate and easier to shoot.
Hope this helps, good luck :thumbsup:
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My 700p cost some scrips but it shoots tight groups.
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Thanks for the thought-provoking comments, gents.
I was kind of looking at something along the lines of:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/43532/redirect (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/43532/redirect)
Or,
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/411540367/savage_308_24_5r_thread_bl (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/411540367/savage_308_24_5r_thread_bl)
Am I totally off-the-mark, here?
I'd say Savage is a good rifle to start with. The floating bolt on Savage is said to be great for accuracy. The barrel nut will allow you to purchase screw on barrels if you want to change caliber (you'll need go/no go gauges and the barrel nut wrench). If you choose Savage get the stock with the aluminum bedding block. Some like the accu-trigger. It was ok for me, but I ended up changing it out for the Sharp Shooters Supply trigger. It was a traditional style trigger which I liked better, and since it was a target gun the safety bar thing wasn't really needed, since it was only loaded when the rifle was pointing down range and on target.The bolt on savages are kind of sloppy when working it.
My old Savage in 6mmBR.
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/photo-33.jpg)
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Some of the typical groups I got from this savage (single shot Target Action). Granted I bedded the action and put a McGowen barrel on it. ;)
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/bestload1.jpg)
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/photo-51.jpg)
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/photo-59.jpg)
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/photo-58.jpg)
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Thanks for the responses, heavies, kahuna, rob, and imku!
@ imku - nice, your AI! wish an AI was within my price range. :(
@ heavies - is that a Bells and Carlson on your old 6mmBR? Was looking at this, and was wondering if anyone had firsthand experiences with it. It goes against every fiber of my usual K.I.S.S. thought processes, but it looks really.... adjustable.
(http://www.bellandcarlson.com/bc_2094.jpg) (http://www.bellandcarlson.com/bc_2094.jpg)
No, the stock was from Sharp Shooter Suppy (a Savage gunsmith specialist) I ordered the target action and stock from them. It took forever and a day for it to come in... I almost was going to do a credit card dispute on them. I would NOT do business with these folks directly ever again, which is a shame because they do some awesome work. Their customer service sucks. Their competition trigger is stocked by Brownells, that is where I purchased that from.
My brother had that Bells & Carlson stock on his Rem 700P. It is a awesome stock! It is beefy, solid, ridgid, and comfortable. All adjustments lock securly in place, which is a must for less fustration. The stock is real heavy, might wear you down if you ever took it hunting, but for target it is fine.
(http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/photo-12.jpg) (http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af127/heaviescc/photo-12.jpg)
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Damnit, I was hoping you would say that the B&C stock sucks.... then I could cross it off my To Buy List.
Also been reading good things about the SWFA Super Sniper, as far as a cheap, relatively good scope. Confirm/deny? Thanks!
I will say that the B&C stock that I had was on the heavy side. I had the A5 medalist tac model. I liked it due to the price and that it had an adjustable butt assembly (length of pull, cant, and height) and check piece. I put a stock pack on and it was very comfortable to shoot. Not going to lie, I wish I didn't sell it (my last .308 bolt) in hindsight. There are many choices in stocks and chassis systems that are on the lighter side, but they also make your wallet light...
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Purpose: target shooting @ KHSC, for fun and as a personal challenge. I am hoping to learn as much as I can, and eventually get involved in the goings-on @ Puuloa.
Not absolutely dead-set on .308, either, as a few other calibers look really intriguing (flatter trajectory, energy retention, less drop, greater velocity, etc.), and as others have pointed out, not sure about bolt vs. semi-auto.
Of course, availability/reloading of ammo is a big consideration, also.
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Sorry, kinda late for advice but I'll throw this out anyway.
If you seriously want to learn target rifle shooting, I would suggest a moderate weight 22 target rifle.
Then learn 4 position rifle shooting with that. It's not as macho as a 308, but neither is the cost of the ammo....
and to become a good rifleman you WILL need a lot of ammo.
Understand that I'm NOT talking about shooting from a bipod or bench now.
Just a mat, jacket, sling, and a scope.
Prone, sit , kneel, stand.
IMHO, This is the best way to learn serious rifle shooting.
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Sorry, kinda late for advice but I'll throw this out anyway.
If you seriously want to learn target rifle shooting, I would suggest a moderate weight 22 target rifle.
Then learn 4 position rifle shooting with that. It's not as macho as a 308, but neither is the cost of the ammo....
and to become a good rifleman you WILL need a lot of ammo.
Understand that I'm NOT talking about shooting from a bipod or bench now.
Just a mat, jacket, sling, and a scope.
Prone, sit , kneel, stand.
IMHO, This is the best way to learn serious rifle shooting.
I agree and I may be a bit biased as I started shooting highpower and use smallbore to further practice.
The reality of finding mistakes and learning to correct them is frustrating but it is a good learning process. I still get frustrated. As Nakas said, you need to be truthful to yourself.
It is not as gratifying as shooting at steel plate - well, depending on how big those plates are.
If shooting fast and learning how to do speed reloads then I think you need to take a step back and fall on the fundamentals whcih creates another argument altogether. i.e. we don't shoot like that with a sling in combat etc.
There's a lot of talented and experienced shooters at Puuloa. Just ask around and everyone so far have been pretty helpful.
But in retrospect I would get this .308 as well as the TUBB
http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=7&f=93&t=1310566 (http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=7&f=93&t=1310566)
I have an older Savage 110 that I bedded into a Choate stock with a Douglas barrel. Bedded the scope base and set headspace myself. Good shooter but the bolt lift is stiff. Thinking about selling it and getting the FN as it is based on a Winchester 70 action.
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Sorry, kinda late for advice but I'll throw this out anyway.
If you seriously want to learn target rifle shooting, I would suggest a moderate weight 22 target rifle.
Then learn 4 position rifle shooting with that. It's not as macho as a 308, but neither is the cost of the ammo....
and to become a good rifleman you WILL need a lot of ammo.
Understand that I'm NOT talking about shooting from a bipod or bench now.
Just a mat, jacket, sling, and a scope.
Prone, sit , kneel, stand.
IMHO, This is the best way to learn serious rifle shooting.
You're quite correct OF. You could even use an air rifle as it's the technique that one must master and that will translate to all rifles.
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You're quite correct OF. You could even use an air rifle as it's the technique that one must master and that will translate to all rifles.
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Yeah, I was going to mention the air rifle option too.
When I was in high school, we used real 22 rifles.
When my son was in high school, they used air rifles.
The training is identical.
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Hmmm, would a simple 10/22 suffice?
Regardless, the .308 has already been purchased. :(
Next questions for you guys:
1. I'm leaning toward the SWFA SS 10x42 30mm mil-quad reticle w/ .10 Mrad adjustment. Rear focus version is $100 bucks cheaper than the side focus version. Spring for the side focus version, right?
2. Steel base & rings or aluminum base & rings, or does it not really matter?
3. Any particular brands of bases & rings, or does it not really matter?
Thanks!
1. Side focus is MUCH more convenient.
2. I've used steel and alum bases and rings. Both work equally well, However, GET QUALITY BASE AND RINGS. not the cheapo crap. I like the stability and convenience of picatinny rail and rings to match. A lot of headaches will be prevented.
3. Research on the name brands that will work for your firearm and scope. Don't forget to account for the objective diameter, as you don't want the scope hitting the barrel or the rail. You need to get it just high enough to clear but not tooo high up in the clouds. Get the ones that will work and work with your budget. Don't consider any cheap stuff. They'll work loose and you be scratching your head as to why your POI is all over the place.
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Would someone please convince me NOT to buy a Manners MCS TF2A?
(http://mannersstocks.com/media/wysiwyg/images/mcs-tf2.jpg)
ok,noo buy um.but it does look kinda cool though.
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Would someone please convince me NOT to buy a Manners MCS TF2A?
(http://mannersstocks.com/media/wysiwyg/images/mcs-tf2.jpg)
ooh nice, would the inlet fit an aftermarket bottom metal like a Surgeon? I've been looking into getting a Bolt Action but life always takes away my money...
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Would someone please convince me NOT to buy a Manners MCS TF2A?
(http://mannersstocks.com/media/wysiwyg/images/mcs-tf2.jpg)
Oh sorry, after thinking about it I see no reason you shouldn't go ahead and pick that bad boy up :thumbsup:
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WHy get a traditional stock when the all the rage are chassis systems?
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WHy get a traditional stock when the all the rage are chassis systems?
I think Stocks look better than Chassis. I've seen the price of Chassis systems dropping recently though, like that new Magpul Chassis.
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WHy get a traditional stock when the all the rage are chassis systems?
because wood looks classy.
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OK...I think I may order a Manners for my Savage 110... :rofl:
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OK...I think I may order a Manners for my Savage 110... :rofl:
dont lie, you know it would look fresh as hell.
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I really was looking at a Manners T4 for about a year. I considered a chassis as they dont require bedding but they are heavier. mDT is releasing a new system. Then Im torn between ridding the Savage though it shoots well in a bedded (Devcon steel) Choate tactical stock. Yep a Choate. Not sexy. Then Im also looking at the RemingtonM24 rebuuld.
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Copy that.
I understand that the Manners have a mini-chassis system, now.
Does the new MDT system still have the optic mounted to the chassis, rather than the action?
And, thanks for the clarification, brother.
The TAC21 is the only MDT chassis that encompasses the receiver, thus having to mount the optic on the chassis. The LSS and the new HS3 don't do that.
After thinking about my Savage, I'll just keep it the way it is. A great budget shooter. I'll throw my ticket in the hat for an M24 rebuild.
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Savage 110 .308 complete rifle - $300
Choate Stock - $200
Weaver scope - $300
22" Douglas Barrel 1/10 twist SS - $300
Machined recoil lug - $30?
Farrell base - $100?
Steel Leupold rings - $50
Harris bipod - $50
Devcon steel bed - $40 (Graingers Mapunapuna Best bedding compound yet!)
Hours bedding, making sure action sits in line with water line, even, free float tang - MUDDABI0TCH!
This was the first line of Choate "Tactical" stocks that came out circa 2010. It needed a lot of work. The action sank into the stock. Tang touched the stock, the action looked like it was drowning in a cheap leather couch. The bolt handle touched the stock. So I bedded the thing with Devcon steel (did I say how much I likey this stuff?) goes on with good workable viscosity and sets up in about an hour. There was a deal of setup to make sure the action sat stress free in the stock and the bolt, tang did not contact the stock as well. So this stock was not a drop in as they said. Newer ones I hope are better.
So for around $1000 (some parts I sold from the complete rifle: barrel, stock) this rifle shoots decently with handoads 175s SMKs on top of RL15 lit with a CI BR primer & neck sized cases. sub MOA groups
The barrel swap was easy and the scope base was bedded per Farrell's instructions.
Does it deserve a Manners? I dunno. Thats a $600 question I've been sitting on too.
The Remington M24 is calling though...
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Haven't weighed it, but it weighs less than my service rifle (13pounds). The Choate weighs about 3~4 pounds.