Post by: Tom_G on April 02, 2021, 09:29:46 AM
i've always kind of wondered about this. There are no shortage of tiny indie films featuring guns. I know this crowd, and I know the budgets involved, and I don't believe they're buying realistic props. I believe they're using actual firearms. Which, ok, with accommodation for state laws (handgun owner on set, for example) and safety training, why not?
Now I find myself running sound in one of those films. I volunteered to conduct some basic training, even to take members of the cast shooting, if anyone was unfamiliar with firearms. So far, so good.
They've put out a call in the community, looking to borrow guns for the film. Aha! Belief confirmed! They're looking for a couple of Glocks, a matched set of rifles (which aren't specified, but should be contemporary military-style), a couple of grenades, and some affiliated tac gear.
Here we finally come to the question: how comfortable would you be letting someone use your guns to make a film? What would be your requirements, were you to agree?
Post by: stangzilla on April 02, 2021, 09:42:55 AM
I'm not giving them any of my grenades >:D
Post by: ren on April 02, 2021, 09:56:11 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 02, 2021, 10:11:42 AM
Certainly there are some legal considerations. I don't think you can lend someone a handgun. There is also liability. On another note, the film industry in general hasn't been supportive of the 2a community.They only came to testify when it affected them. But common with gun owners too.
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Post by: oldfart on April 02, 2021, 10:14:49 AM
I got one if you need. ---Beretta 92
Also got a bug blaster if doing an alien movie.
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 02, 2021, 10:15:16 AM
My concern would be who will be using the guns since they are real. Does the actor have any felonies or other disqualifing factors?
Then theres the if they break it, will they replace it. And due to covid, certain parts are harder to come by (lowers) and will take u multiple trips to hpd, so time is money.
So to answer, i would not lend my firearms.
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Post by: ren on April 02, 2021, 10:37:51 AM
Post by: zippz on April 02, 2021, 11:15:33 AM
Post by: QUIETShooter on April 02, 2021, 11:39:12 AM
Who knows, I wouldn't be surprised they got real ones too.
Guns are one thing. But a real grenade being lent out? I don't think so.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 02, 2021, 12:08:59 PM
I'd consider renting a few guns to them. Long guns are no problem, but I'd need to see a letter signed by the Chief of Police saying it's okay to allow the props department to possess and control the handguns.
Short of that letter, they'd need to pay me to be present on set to maintain control over the guns during use and take them home when shooting that day is done. I'm sure they can accommodate that by scheduling as many scenes with my handguns in them close together to limit the number of days they need me.
So, yes, I'd be okay with having them use my firearms as long as the legalities and logistics meet my approval. What I worry about is an actor fumbling and dropping a nice piece and damaging it. There would have to be a clause stating "we'll be responsible for repairing any damage."
:popcorn: :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
Post by: robtmc on April 02, 2021, 12:17:10 PM
Even back in the 80's, I thought "No way" they could get hands on a SMG like that.
Post by: aieahound on April 02, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Remember one of the first season Magnum P.I. where Rick lights up some bad guy's car with a Mac 10 or Uzi.
Even back in the 80's, I thought "No way" they could get hands on a SMG like that.
Rick could’ve. He was the shady underworld connected character.
For sure not registered.
They make exact (pretty much ) replica pellet/bb guns with blow back and every thing for little over hundred bucks. No orange tips.
Glock,Beretta, M&P, 1911....
Post by: drck1000 on April 04, 2021, 04:14:31 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 04, 2021, 08:15:31 PM
I had met and became friends with a couple of folks whose job it was to arrange for firearm props for the various film crew/projects locally. They surprisingly knew very little about the actual firearms. It was just a job for them to get what the production crew was in need for. I think it's easier nowadays with availability of pretty accurate airsoft guns that no need to "mess with" real firearms.
Most of these shows -- the good ones, anyway -- have technical consultants on set they pay to make sure they aren't doing silly things like calling the wrong prop an Uzi or having the optics installed backwards (Yes, EOTECH, we saw that!).
If the props people don't know a Glock from an AR-15, they at least know who the consultant is. Usually it's someone with military or LE experience, depending on the nature of the show.
I've known one FBI guy I worked with who was a consultant for 5-0, then landed a leading bad guy role.
Anyway, that's how I've heard it's supposed to work.
Post by: hvybarrels on April 04, 2021, 08:36:43 PM
Post by: aletheuo137 on April 04, 2021, 08:40:59 PM
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Post by: drck1000 on April 05, 2021, 08:29:39 AM
Most of these shows -- the good ones, anyway -- have technical consultants on set they pay to make sure they aren't doing silly things like calling the wrong prop an Uzi or having the optics installed backwards (Yes, EOTECH, we saw that!).True. However, I recall some shows that had tech consultants and gun nuts on the show, like Criminal Minds, get lots wrong. I mean nobody is perfect, but attention to detail. Stuff like scope caps down when shooting and other stuff like that. Probably more the film/prop folks than the consultant, but still. That said, probably less than 5% of the audience will pick up on stuff like that. I also met one of the tech consultants that worked on a few show produced locally and they weren't particularly into guns or interested in shooting them. Just like not all professionals who utilize firearms in their "day jobs" are gun people.
If the props people don't know a Glock from an AR-15, they at least know who the consultant is. Usually it's someone with military or LE experience, depending on the nature of the show.
I've known one FBI guy I worked with who was a consultant for 5-0, then landed a leading bad guy role.
Anyway, that's how I've heard it's supposed to work.
It's stuff that are easy to get right that make me ::) Yeah, artistic license on some, but some just plain lack of attention to detail.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 05, 2021, 12:43:53 PM
True. However, I recall some shows that had tech consultants and gun nuts on the show, like Criminal Minds, get lots wrong. I mean nobody is perfect, but attention to detail. Stuff like scope caps down when shooting and other stuff like that. Probably more the film/prop folks than the consultant, but still. That said, probably less than 5% of the audience will pick up on stuff like that. I also met one of the tech consultants that worked on a few show produced locally and they weren't particularly into guns or interested in shooting them. Just like not all professionals who utilize firearms in their "day jobs" are gun people.
It's stuff that are easy to get right that make me ::) Yeah, artistic license on some, but some just plain lack of attention to detail.
They also have people called "key grips" whose job it is to remember from take to take what was where in the last take. A great example of someone not being alert was in Independence Day with Will Smith's scene in front of his girl friend's house as he was leaving. He was wearing his Marine uniform jacket. As the camera angle changes from shot to shot, it's obvious they were done in different takes because the epaulets on his jacket were magically changing locations!
In one shot, bot epaulets are under the lapel (as they should be). Next shot, one is under, and one is over/on top of the lapel. Not to be outdone, next shot BOTH epaulets are on top! As the scene goes on, the epaulets play hide and seek, as they all move from on top to under and back. I wonder if the video editors even caught that. To me, it's really distracting.
With consultants, grips and everyone else on set watching the takes, it's amazing how many gaffs make it to the final movie/TV show.
FYI: the name "Grip Boy" or "Key Grip" came from the description of their job. When one take ends and needs to be reshot, or the next shot is a continuation of the previous one, the grip person makes sure if the actor was holding a prop in a given hand (gripping it), the object remained in that hand through all takes so it doesn't look like the prop was jumping from hand to hand.
As for proper configuration of firearms being used, it should be a team effort to set it up correctly and continue that setup through the whole scene.
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 05, 2021, 12:49:43 PM
So this isn't in the job description? FF to 0:48
Post by: drck1000 on April 05, 2021, 12:51:39 PM
They also have people called "key grips" whose job it is to remember from take to take what was where in the last take. A great example of someone not being alert was in Independence Day with Will Smith's scene in front of his girl friend's house as he was leaving. He was wearing his Marine uniform jacket. As the camera angle changes from shot to shot, it's obvious they were done in different takes because the epaulets on his jacket were magically changing locations!The take to take one is another I noticed. I think it was Criminal Minds. Picking on them because Joe Mantegna was on a shooting show on The Outdoor Channel saying how they had experts to get things more realistic. So one scene one guy was clearing a house with a Sig. Then later a Glock. Ahh, handgun, same same. To me that’s easy to get right.
In one shot, bot epaulets are under the lapel (as they should be). Next shot, one is under, and one is over/on top of the lapel. Not to be outdone, next shot BOTH epaulets are on top! As the scene goes on, the epaulets play hide and seek, as they all move from on top to under and back. I wonder if the video editors even caught that. To me, it's really distracting.
With consultants, grips and everyone else on set watching the takes, it's amazing how many gaffs make it to the final movie/TV show.
FYI: the name "Grip Boy" or "Key Grip" came from the description of their job. When one take ends and needs to be reshot, or the next shot is a continuation of the previous one, the grip person makes sure if the actor was holding a prop in a given hand (gripping it), the object remained in that hand through all takes so it doesn't look like the prop was jumping from hand to hand.
As for proper configuration of firearms being used, it should be a team effort to set it up correctly and continue that setup through the whole scene.
The uniform one is interesting too. Or people in ranks/positions that aren’t typical.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 05, 2021, 01:00:21 PM
The take to take one is another I noticed. I think it was Criminal Minds. Picking on them because Joe Mantegna was on a shooting show on The Outdoor Channel saying how they had experts to get things more realistic. So one scene one guy was clearing a house with a Sig. Then later a Glock. Ahh, handgun, same same. To me that’s easy to get right.
The uniform one is interesting too. Or people in ranks/positions that aren’t typical.
One classic gun gaffe on The Walking Dead I noticed was when Eugene overheard some residents of Alexandria plotting to kill Rick. After Eugene accidentally alerted them to his presence and was being held down by the leader of the disgruntled residents, Rick walked in and put a Glock to the back of that guy's head. Then you hear the unmistakeable sound of a hammer being cocked!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
That one's on the editors and sound effects team! :geekdanc:
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 05, 2021, 01:01:47 PM
Post by: drck1000 on April 05, 2021, 01:02:08 PM
One classic gun gaffe on The Walking Dead I noticed was when Eugene overheard some residents of Alexandria plotting to kill Rick. After Eugene accidentally alerted then to his presence and was being held down by the leader of the disgruntled residents, Rick walked in and put a Glock to the back of that guy's head. Then you hear the unmistakeable sound of a hammer being cocked!Yeah, the Glock hammer cocking sound effects is another common one. Also love the 20 round revolvers. They reload so fast, naked eye couldn’t pick it up. Haha
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
That one's on the editors and sound effects team! :geekdanc:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 05, 2021, 01:05:28 PM
Yeah, the Glock hammer cocking sound effects is another common one. Also love the 20 round revolvers. They reload so fast, naked eye couldn’t pick it up. Haha
I'm not as curious about WHEN they reloaded, but how the heck they decided to carry 50-100 rounds in their pockets everyday for that one time when they needed all that ammo!
In Magnum Force, they made a point of explaining Callahan always carried 2 speed loaders. So he at least had 18 rounds to fire before anyone questioned where he pulled any excess rounds from. :shake:
Post by: hvybarrels on April 06, 2021, 07:33:56 PM
A large part of the movie gun funkups take place in the edit bay long after the technical experts have collected their last check. This gets even worse when new writers are brought in for reshoots, increasing the probability that more people who have no idea about guns will get involved
Post by: dogman on April 06, 2021, 08:05:40 PM
Go to 3:57 :D and turn up the volume. What ain't right?
Post by: hvybarrels on April 06, 2021, 09:14:11 PM
Post by: drck1000 on April 06, 2021, 09:45:28 PM
What? Even Danny couldn’t miss from that distance 🤷🏻♂️
Go to 3:57 :D and turn up the volume. What ain't right?
:rofl:
Post by: groveler on April 07, 2021, 07:43:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xFnn24EcgkRevolvers don't eject shells. But hey it is Hollywood.
Go to 3:57 :D and turn up the volume. What ain't right?
I haven't watched most any modern TV shows in 35 years.
:wtf:
Post by: jc2721 on April 07, 2021, 03:44:01 PM
In Magnum Force, they made a point of explaining Callahan always carried 2 speed loaders. So he at least had 18 rounds to fire before anyone questioned where he pulled any excess rounds from. :shake:
[/quote]
"Three, Harry. You always carry three. Now throw them out the window..."
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 07, 2021, 07:17:44 PM
In Magnum Force, they made a point of explaining Callahan always carried 2 speed loaders. So he at least had 18 rounds to fire before anyone questioned where he pulled any excess rounds from. :shake:
"Three, Harry. You always carry three. Now throw them out the window..."
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I just watched that a few weeks ago. I remembered 2 ...
A man's gotta know his limitations. :crazy:
Post by: hvybarrels on April 07, 2021, 10:20:40 PM
Post by: Tom_G on April 23, 2021, 02:27:11 PM
They found someone with a nice airsoft collection that looked realistic enough. I was running sound, and didn't get a good look at the props until we took a break after a few hours' shooting. There's a scene where one woman in unpacking a bag full of guns in front of her family. She says "Two handguns, both Glocks" as she pulls them out. During the break, I went to look at the collection. Sure enough, two handguns, both H&Ks. Sigh.
Post by: drck1000 on April 23, 2021, 02:32:16 PM
Following up on this.I'm surprised you even recognized any semi-auto pistol brands. :P ;D
They found someone with a nice airsoft collection that looked realistic enough. I was running sound, and didn't get a good look at the props until we took a break after a few hours' shooting. There's a scene where one woman in unpacking a bag full of guns in front of her family. She says "Two handguns, both Glocks" as she pulls them out. During the break, I went to look at the collection. Sure enough, two handguns, both H&Ks. Sigh.
Don't they call all sodas "coke" in the midwest? Or someplace on the mainland. . . same same. . . :geekdanc:
Post by: hvybarrels on April 23, 2021, 02:54:45 PM
Don't they call all sodas "coke" in the midwest? Or someplace on the mainland. . .
Maybe they used to before Coca-Cola started hating on white people. Bad enough their products were useless except as rust removers to begin with.
Post by: drck1000 on April 23, 2021, 03:01:22 PM
Maybe they used to before Coca-Cola started hating on white people. Bad enough their products were useless except as rust removers to begin with.They hate white people? I'm so out of "popular culture". . .
I don't drink soda, but yeah. When a coke mix with I think vodka and something else is recommended for a shower hard water cleaner, uh. . . :o
Post by: aaronc5362 on April 24, 2021, 08:05:42 AM
Are you talking bout the movie "salt" ? Lol i think thats where i saw that eotech backwards.
I was just watching a movie yesterday, it was either hobbs and shaw or another movie ( it was my sunday and i think i watched 5 movies-- woot woot!!), anyways they made a "rack the slide back" noise and the hammer was still down. I distinctly remember it was a p229 tho lol.
Its not just gun movies, if anyone has watched step up 2, watch the last dance scene in the street. The break dancer keeps changing wardrobe during his dance lol.
Post by: aaronc5362 on April 24, 2021, 08:08:53 AM
I think the call all soda cola or pop? Maybe. ..
I remember goin restaurants in vegas, reno, tahoe and sac town, they calles it cola.. atleast the white people did.
And in vegas a very sun burnt man from the deep south called it soda pop. Lol
To each their own ..
Post by: drck1000 on April 24, 2021, 09:09:57 AM
" Don't they call all sodas "coke" in the midwest? Or someplace on the mainland. . . same same. . . :geekdanc:"https://www.businessinsider.com/soda-pop-coke-map-2018-10?amp
I think the call all soda cola or pop? Maybe. ..
I remember goin restaurants in vegas, reno, tahoe and sac town, they calles it cola.. atleast the white people did.
And in vegas a very sun burnt man from the deep south called it soda pop. Lol
To each their own ..
Post by: groveler on April 24, 2021, 10:26:25 AM
Remember one of the first season Magnum P.I. where Rick lights up some bad guy's car with a Mac 10 or Uzi.Seattle Samoan gangs in the 80's, easy to get a full auto Uzi.
Even back in the 80's, I thought "No way" they could get hands on a SMG like that.
But my cousin was a heroin addict and knew people that knew people.
Post by: ren on April 24, 2021, 11:54:41 AM
Seattle Samoan gangs in the 80's, easy to get a full auto Uzi.
But my cousin was a heroin addict and knew people that knew people.
sensationalism doesn't help our cause
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 24, 2021, 01:59:10 PM
in the South, everybody orders "Coke." If the place doesn't sell Coke, the server/counter person asks "Is Pepsi okay?" If they want to choose from the restaurant's selection, they ask what they have to drink, or what sodas they offer.
In the North, they call soda "pop". In the 50's, kids called it soda pop everywhere.
I don't know of anyone who calls all sodas "Coke." Maybe you're misremembering? Many do call all Pepsi-Coke type sodas "Cola". Then they can order a cola and not worry about the brand being offered.
Not sure where this ties into Prop Guns, but I imagine we'll circle back to "Pop Guns" soon. :rofl:
Post by: aaronc5362 on April 24, 2021, 03:00:56 PM
Post by: drck1000 on April 24, 2021, 03:30:53 PM
Nope.Well, go ask my two buddies that mentioned that. They are from Northern LA and GA somewhere. They don’t really know everyone from “the south” tho...
in the South, everybody orders "Coke." If the place doesn't sell Coke, they ask "Is Pepsi okay?" If they want to choose from the restaurant's selection, they ask what they have to drink, or what sodas they offer.
In the North, they call soda "pop". In the 50's, kids called it soda pop everywhere.
I don't know of anyone who calls all sodas "Coke." Maybe you're misremembering? Many do call all Pepsi-Coke type sodas "Cola". Then they can order a cola and not worry about the brand being offered.
Not sure where this ties into Prop Guns, but I imagine we'll circle back to "Pop Guns" soon. :rofl:
My post was to Tom G about many people calling pistols Glocks.
Anyways, gun props.
Post by: jc2721 on April 24, 2021, 03:52:45 PM
I just watched that a few weeks ago. I remembered 2 ...
A man's gotta know his limitations. :crazy:
The line is more or less correct--"Three. You always carry three...." but the scene shows Harry tossing 2 speed loaders out the car window. Poor continuity.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 24, 2021, 04:51:19 PM
The line is more or less correct--"Three. You always carry three...." but the scene shows Harry tossing 2 speed loaders out the car window. Poor continuity.
I rewatched it a couple of times -- just that one scene. Harry may have tossed 2 loaders from his left pocket using the left hand before tossing a third from his right pocket/hand.
But, if you look closely and freeze the movie, it looks like he only has 2 rounds in the left-hand speed loader that's visible. The way he's holding his hand it's really had to tell if there is one or more loaders in it, but you can definitely see space between the two rounds in the left loader.
Post by: jc2721 on April 24, 2021, 07:36:20 PM