2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: DEROS on August 22, 2021, 01:13:21 PM
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Trying to understand the PTA in respect to Rifles and Shotguns.
When applying for a PTA for a Rifle/Shotgun, there is no need to have the make, model, SN of the rifle/shotgun. Also, the PTA is good for 1 year from issuance and can be used multiple times to acquire a rifle/shotgun.
If I went to a state, like Nevada, that literally has same day NICS verification and transfer of ownership the same day; Is it within Hawaii law for me to buy a rifle/shotgun at one of those states and fly it back to Hawaii and register? Assuming I had a current rifle/shotgun PTA that covers the days that I had physical possession of the rifle/shotgun.
I have read HPD website and tried to search on this site and didn't really find the answer. Most of the discussion was about buying from out of state, like gunbroker.com, in which they send it to a FFL, or moving to Hawaii and bringing firearms with them.
Thanks
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Believe you'd just be registering a firearm that you legally acquired from out of state upon your return.
It's been a while since I looked into that. However, the states that I was considering doing so you needed to be a resident to purchase the firearm I was researching. So I ended up just dropping the plans. That was maybe 4-5 years ago, but I don't believe anything has changed.
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Believe you'd just be registering a firearm that you legally acquired from out of state upon your return.
It's been a while since I looked into that. However, the states that I was considering doing so you needed to be a resident to purchase the firearm I was researching. So I ended up just dropping the plans. That was maybe 4-5 years ago, but I don't believe anything has changed.
If you buy out of state it will have to be a private sale, or establish a "residence" in that state.
For example I stay with my brother and will be registered to vote in WA state at his( my) address.
That establishes residency. even if I spend most my time in Hawaii.
Waste of time to vote in Hawaii anyway.
:shaka:
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You dont need a PTA for a gun u already own. Just need to reg when u are able to. Ige's proc waived the 5 day reg.
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Federal law prohibits the sale of most firearms (including handguns) directly to people who live in a different state from where the sale is taking place.
Federal law does allow for interstate transfers of long guns to out-of-state buyers if (1) the seller is a licensed FFL dealer, and (2) the sale conforms to the laws of both the seller's and buyer's states. So, if the only thing you need to do in Hawaii is show your long gun permit & ID, the same should be allowed in states that follow the ATF rule:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-licensee-sell-firearm-nonlicensee-who-resident-another-state
Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensee to a nonlicensee who resides in a State
other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made
if the firearm is shipped to a licensee whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the
purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the licensee in his or her State of residence. In addition,
a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s
business premises is located in an over–the–counter transaction, provided the transaction complies
with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.
Of course, this might not be the case depending on state laws and gun store policy. But, the last part of the quoted rule above means you can go to a gun store in, say, Texas, and take your long gun purchase home with you if you present your valid Hawaii long gun permit to the seller along with a valid ID. At that point, it's no different than if you'd bought it in Hawaii. Take it to the police station to register -- but as an out-of-state firearm.
If the seller in the other state not a dealer, then they are required to ship the gun to an FFL in your state -- no exceptions. You'll pick up the gun from your FFL after returning home (obviously). Having said that, unless the seller's state mandates that long gun owners must register their firearms, it's up to the seller to enforce this part of the law.
Nobody here does anything illegal.
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Simple answer if you are visiting another state.
Yes you as a Hawaii resident can buy a long gun (rifle, shotgun) in any of the 50 states. Upon return to Hawaii with the firearm, you are supposed to register it within 5 days (currently suspended due to Covid emergency declarations).
No you cannot as a Hawaii resident buy a handgun in any other state. UNLESS, you purchase it and have it shipped to a Hawaii FFL for transfer. You cannot take possession of a handgun in another state. This is Federal law.
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Simple answer if you are visiting another state.
Yes you as a Hawaii resident can buy a long gun (rifle, shotgun) in any of the 50 states. Upon return to Hawaii with the firearm, you are supposed to register it within 5 days (currently suspended due to Covid emergency declarations).
No you cannot as a Hawaii resident buy a handgun in any other state. UNLESS, you purchase it and have it shipped to a Hawaii FFL for transfer. You cannot take possession of a handgun in another state. This is Federal law.
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I thought that if it was an in-person private transaction
you could buy or be gifted any pistol.
So My fathers pistols that he left me are illegal?
Or the 45 I bought from my brother?
I think not.
:grrr:
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Trying to understand the PTA in respect to Rifles and Shotguns.
When applying for a PTA for a Rifle/Shotgun, there is no need to have the make, model, SN of the rifle/shotgun. Also, the PTA is good for 1 year from issuance and can be used multiple times to acquire a rifle/shotgun.
If I went to a state, like Nevada, that literally has same day NICS verification and transfer of ownership the same day; Is it within Hawaii law for me to buy a rifle/shotgun at one of those states and fly it back to Hawaii and register? Assuming I had a current rifle/shotgun PTA that covers the days that I had physical possession of the rifle/shotgun.
I have read HPD website and tried to search on this site and didn't really find the answer. Most of the discussion was about buying from out of state, like gunbroker.com, in which they send it to a FFL, or moving to Hawaii and bringing firearms with them.
Thanks
this is covered under "out of state firearm acquisition". regardless of how you acquire it, if you physically fly back with a firearm that you own that is not registered in hawaii, you do an "out of state firearm acquisition". basically you go to the registration side with the firearm, and fill out all of the PTA paperwork, and they process it and give you your registration at the same time. it takes about half an hour because they have to process the PTA paperwork along with the normal registration paperwork.
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Simple answer if you are visiting another state.
Yes you as a Hawaii resident can buy a long gun (rifle, shotgun) in any of the 50 states. Upon return to Hawaii with the firearm, you are supposed to register it within 5 days (currently suspended due to Covid emergency declarations).
No you cannot as a Hawaii resident buy a handgun in any other state. UNLESS, you purchase it and have it shipped to a Hawaii FFL for transfer. You cannot take possession of a handgun in another state. This is Federal law.
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I thought that if it was an in-person private transaction
you could buy or be gifted any pistol.
So My fathers pistols that he left me are illegal?
Or the 45 I bought from my brother?
I think not.
:grrr:
Family transfers are a whole different item and covered under the NFA and ATF rules.
Purchasing requires background checks, etc.
............................................................................
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0501-firearms-top-10-qaspdf/download
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0813-firearms-top-12-qaspdf/download
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Soo. . . OP, what are you looking to get?
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You cannot take possession of a handgun in another state. This is Federal law.
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But if you are a convicted felon or a want to be felon, then you get da ainokea exemption and can do what you like.
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But if you are a convicted felon or a want to be felon, then you get da ainokea exemption and can do what you like.
That's a blanket exception for every law.
Laws are not intended to prevent behavior. They are only intended (and capable) of punishing behavior afterward.
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That's a blanket exception for every law.
Laws are not intended to prevent behavior. They are only intended (and capable) of punishing behavior afterward.
I beg to differ. Laws DO prevent unlawful behavior, but only among the law abiding folks like us. That is why I don't make myself a suppressor (something very easy to do) because there is a law against it.
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I beg to differ. Laws DO prevent unlawful behavior, but only among the law abiding folks like us. That is why I don't make myself a suppressor (something very easy to do) because there is a law against it.
What I said is that the law is not intended to prevent behavior. It can only punish us after we do the wrong thing.
You, a law-abiding person, are making a choice to follow the law. Had you made a different choice, would that law have prevented you from acting on your desires to make a suppressor? Of course not.
When you exercise free will, there are usually consequences associated. If the consequences are based on laws prohibiting the act, it's still your choice to follow the law or accept the consequences if caught. You're simply factoring in the legal penalties with all the other benefits and risks associated with your possible choices.
If the penalty for making a suppressor was a $25 fine & no criminal charges -- basically a ticket -- you'd still be breaking the law making one, but the consequences are now much less severe. Now you must decide if the law really prevents you from making a suppressor (still illegal), or if the penalty for that behavior is something you're willing to accept if caught.
It's not the law that keeps you on the legal path, but your fear of consequences and hopefully your sense of right and wrong.
The law CAN NOT PREVENT you from breaking it. It can make the consequences so severe that you're unwilling to take the risk -- still free will, though.
We all know the little saying, "Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD."
The opposite is also true: "Just because you SHOULDN'T doesn't mean you CAN'T."
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Even if the penalty for breaking a law was only a dollar and no other penalty, none of us here would break the law because we are all law abiding citizens.
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Even if the penalty for breaking a law was only a dollar and no other penalty, none of us here would break the law because we are all law abiding citizens.
I agree that the penalty can deter someone from breaking a law. However, a minimum penalty may not provide enough incentive to deter a unlawful act. Speeding is more than a dollar and many people still speed. Jaywalking is more than a dollar and many people still jaywalk. However, if the speeding was a Class C felony even if it was 1 mph over the limit, that would probably stop people from speeding. If jaywalking was a Class C felony, that would deter people from jaywalking.
Religious or not, there is wisdom in the saying "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone". I am law abiding in that I will not intentionally kill someone, drive drunk, or push a person into on coming traffic. However, there will be occasion when I am 10mph over the speed limit, cross a street at a convenient location, ride my bike against traffic and other minor violation of the law.
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Soo. . . OP, what are you looking to get?
I was thinking about getting a Shotgun, IWI TS12 caught my eye. Actually all the tactical shotgun in a bullpup form factor look interesting. I don't have a lot of experience other than the familiarization fire when I was station in Korea circa mid 1990s. Very different kick than the M16A2 but it was a hoot to shot.
Anyway the reason for my original question was that I have a trip coming up to Nevada. It looks like Nevada sells rifles/shotgun to out of state customers as long as it is in person (Online/Over Phone requires shipping to FFL). The only thing that concerns me is that the 1 day to do background check, is taking about 3 days due to COVID. At least that is what I am reading from the internet. So this might be a no-go for my up coming trip.
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I agree that the penalty can deter someone from breaking a law. However, a minimum penalty may not provide enough incentive to deter a unlawful act. Speeding is more than a dollar and many people still speed. Jaywalking is more than a dollar and many people still jaywalk. However, if the speeding was a Class C felony even if it was 1 mph over the limit, that would probably stop people from speeding. If jaywalking was a Class C felony, that would deter people from jaywalking.
Religious or not, there is wisdom in the saying "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone". I am law abiding in that I will not intentionally kill someone, drive drunk, or push a person into on coming traffic. However, there will be occasion when I am 10mph over the speed limit, cross a street at a convenient location, ride my bike against traffic and other minor violation of the law.
Another factor not included yet is your possibility of getting caught as you see it.
People know when & where most of the speed traps are in their area and will slow down accordingly. Jaywalkers don't cross directly in front of a cop.
People commit crimes more readily when they think they will not get caught. No need to consider the penalty if you aren't afraid of being charged.
If you're careful enough, you can speed and jaywalk your whole life without getting caught or suffering any consequences.
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Of course, you didn't actually break the law unless it was proven in court! Only a judge/jury can determine what is "true". :geekdanc: :geekdanc:
#Sarcasm
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Since this discussion about breaking the law is derailing the subject of buying rifles and shotguns, can we move it to Omni's Religion thread and derail that one?
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I was thinking about getting a Shotgun, IWI TS12 caught my eye. Actually all the tactical shotgun in a bullpup form factor look interesting. I don't have a lot of experience other than the familiarization fire when I was station in Korea circa mid 1990s. Very different kick than the M16A2 but it was a hoot to shot.
Anyway the reason for my original question was that I have a trip coming up to Nevada. It looks like Nevada sells rifles/shotgun to out of state customers as long as it is in person (Online/Over Phone requires shipping to FFL). The only thing that concerns me is that the 1 day to do background check, is taking about 3 days due to COVID. At least that is what I am reading from the internet. So this might be a no-go for my up coming trip.
Nevada background checks take about 5-30 minutes depending on the day and time. Weekends are busier, but mid-week is quick. The LGS calls the State Police and they return the yes/no right then. If you have a week, do a CCW class on the first day, go apply for your NV CCW right after you get your affidavit and you probably can pick up the permit before you leave town. NV has a requirement to pick up in person, they will not mail it to you. Or take the affidavit and apply for the AZ which will be mailed to you.
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I was thinking about getting a Shotgun, IWI TS12 caught my eye. Actually all the tactical shotgun in a bullpup form factor look interesting. I don't have a lot of experience other than the familiarization fire when I was station in Korea circa mid 1990s. Very different kick than the M16A2 but it was a hoot to shot.
Anyway the reason for my original question was that I have a trip coming up to Nevada. It looks like Nevada sells rifles/shotgun to out of state customers as long as it is in person (Online/Over Phone requires shipping to FFL). The only thing that concerns me is that the 1 day to do background check, is taking about 3 days due to COVID. At least that is what I am reading from the internet. So this might be a no-go for my up coming trip.
Awesome! That’s IWI TS12 looks interesting. I’ve heard of it, but never shot or handled it.
Good luck in Vegas and your search for new rifle! :shaka: Post pics if/when you get it.
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Wow! I’ve never been interested in going to Vegas but being able to buy toys changes that :-)
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Nevada background checks take about 5-30 minutes depending on the day and time. Weekends are busier, but mid-week is quick. The LGS calls the State Police and they return the yes/no right then. If you have a week, do a CCW class on the first day, go apply for your NV CCW right after you get your affidavit and you probably can pick up the permit before you leave town. NV has a requirement to pick up in person, they will not mail it to you. Or take the affidavit and apply for the AZ which will be mailed to you.
They mail it to you within 120 days per the law. The address on your HI ID must match your mailing. Info is on the LV Metro PD website. Click online services and CCW section. Then FAQ.
NV now accepts walk ins.
My last trip preCV, had a store employee on hold for an hour trying to do the background.
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I was thinking about getting a Shotgun, IWI TS12 caught my eye. Actually all the tactical shotgun in a bullpup form factor look interesting. I don't have a lot of experience other than the familiarization fire when I was station in Korea circa mid 1990s. Very different kick than the M16A2 but it was a hoot to shot.
Anyway the reason for my original question was that I have a trip coming up to Nevada. It looks like Nevada sells rifles/shotgun to out of state customers as long as it is in person (Online/Over Phone requires shipping to FFL). The only thing that concerns me is that the 1 day to do background check, is taking about 3 days due to COVID. At least that is what I am reading from the internet. So this might be a no-go for my up coming trip.
I shot the TS12. Very cool. Esp if u want something different.
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They mail it to you within 120 days per the law. The address on your HI ID must match your mailing. Info is on the LV Metro PD website. Click online services and CCW section. Then FAQ.
NV now accepts walk ins.
My last trip preCV, had a store employee on hold for an hour trying to do the background.
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Used to be pick up in person. Time to renew then
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They mail it to you within 120 days per the law. The address on your HI ID must match your mailing. Info is on the LV Metro PD website. Click online services and CCW section. Then FAQ.
NV now accepts walk ins.
My last trip preCV, had a store employee on hold for an hour trying to do the background.
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My understanding is NV only accepts NV-based training / testing affidavits for CCW. The training and test affidavit must be completed in the county in which you plan to apply for CCW. So, you have to be in NV at least for the qualification test and to be fingerprinted. That applies for initial and renewal permits.
Once you have the affidavit, you can apply in person in that county's Police Chief's or Sheriff's office. They will take your fingerprints and begin processing your application. Once ready, the permit will be mailed to you. Mine took about a month.
As a non-resident, you can choose which county to apply in as long as your training/test are in that county.
You also have the option of applying online or via the mail, but you still have to provide your electronic fingerprints in person. So for most, applying in person is the way to go. If you just don't have time for more than taking the class and test, you can apply online or by mail as long as you appear at the issuing department to pick your permit up when notified. You have to appear in person at least once during the process no matter what -- either when applying, or when picking up the permit.
For renewal, you have to retake the qualification test again in the same county where your permit was issued.
There's no provision for picking up your permit within a few days of applying. So, don't plan on being able to pick it up during the same visit as when you apply.
As a side bit of trivia related to other threads, in NV, if you don't have a concealed carry permit, you can't concealed carry anywhere, including your own property. Open is fine, just not concealed.
FYI.
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Going to Vegas info... this is from LVMPD aka METRO
https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/RecordsFingerprintBureau/Pages/ConcealedFirearms.aspx
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· Complete a Nevada certified firearm’s training course by a certified firearms instructor within in Clark County prior to submitting application.
· Initial application – 8-hour class (must include live fire qualification)
· Renewal application – 4-hour class (must include live fire qualification)
Nevada residents must apply within the county residing in. LVMPD accepts only Clark County.
- Out of state applicants must complete course within the Nevada in accordance with NRS 202.3653-202.369. No out of state certifications accepted.
· Walk-in applications accepted at LVMPD Records & Fingerprint Bureau
· Clark County Approved CCW firearms instructor list( https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/RecordsFingerprintBureau/Documents/Published%20Instructor%20List%20for%20PIO%2071521.pdf )
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Here's some good info
nevadacarry.org
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You also have the option of applying online or via the mail, but you still have to provide your electronic fingerprints in person. So for most, applying in person is the way to go. If you just don't have time for more than taking the class and test, you can apply online or by mail as long as you appear at the issuing department to pick your permit up when notified. You have to appear in person at least once during the process no matter what -- either when applying, or when picking up the permit.
You still have to show up in person and show them the docs and do prints and photo at a later scheduled date. So for a non-resident, this is a bad option cause u will have to fly back to Vegas to do this.
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You still have to show up in person and show them the docs and do prints and photo at a later scheduled date. So for a non-resident, this is a bad option cause u will have to fly back to Vegas to do this.
Normally, that's true, but it's still an option. I'd rather have it mailed to me so I can use it on my next trip to CC.
Some people go to Vegas quite often. I used to go almost quarterly on my way back from business trips.
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Normally, that's true, but it's still an option. I'd rather have it mailed to me so I can use it on my next trip to CC.
Some people go to Vegas quite often. I used to go almost quarterly on my way back from business trips.
IDK what the turn around time is from submitting docs online to getting the appointment to come in person. If it's more 1 week, then it's not feasible. IDK if there's an expiration date either of when to come back.
So with that being said, even if you do frequent vegas often, it's easier to do a walk in and be mailed your permit. When we did ours, had 30 people before us and we were out of there in 12 minutes.
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Is the training, testing, application, fingerprinting, etc still required if someone has a ccw/cfp with NV reciprocity?
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Is the training, testing, application, fingerprinting, etc still required if someone has a ccw/cfp with NV reciprocity?
No, that is only required for a NV ccw.
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Is the training, testing, application, fingerprinting, etc still required if someone has a ccw/cfp with NV reciprocity?
Is all that required to do what?
To carry concealed in NV on an out-of-state permit?
Buy a gun in NV?
Apply for a NV CCW permit? (fewer requirements to get a NV permit)
Not sure what your question is.
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I had a NV permit which expired in 2020. Because NV required in state renewal class, I just renewed my UT and AZ permits. Either one is good to CC in NV.
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Is all that required to do what?
To carry concealed in NV on an out-of-state permit?
Buy a gun in NV?
Apply for a NV CCW permit? (fewer requirements to get a NV permit).
Not sure what your question is.
My bad, too many different questions flying around, I was asking only in regards to conceal carry in NV with an out of state permit. If one already has a current UT&AZ ccw permit, does that person still need to go thru the NV processing before carrying ccw or can they just show up in NV with the UT&AZ card and be good to go?
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My bad, too many different questions flying around, I was asking only in regards to conceal carry in NV with an out of state permit. If one already has a current UT&AZ ccw permit, does that person still need to go thru the NV processing before carrying ccw or can they just show up in NV with the UT&AZ card and be good to go?
No need go thru the NV process while using another states ccw permit.
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Right on, thank you.
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Right on, thank you.
It's always a good idea to go to the state's website and look for Conceal Carry Permit Reciprocity agreements. That gives all the details you need.
Some states are simpler than others. You might see that all states's permits are honored without exception, while another state might not accept a non-resident permit, or a non-resident permit from a particular state (permit requirements might not include enough training).
As for NV, here's what they say:
Out-of-State Carry Concealed Weapon Permit Recognition
*Effective July 1, 2016
In accordance with SB 175 and AB 488 of the 2015 legislative session, the State of Nevada
will recognize the following States' CCW permits. Click here to view. Request Document
Remediation - Click here to view.
These laws allow holders of valid permits from these states to carry a concealed weapon
while in the State of Nevada. The permit must be in the possession of the permittee at all
times while carrying a firearm.
https://rccd.nv.gov/FeesForms/Brady/CCW-Permit-Recognition/
Pursuant to SB 175 and AB 488 of the 2015 Legislative Session, the state of Nevada will
recognize concealed weapons permits from the following states:
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Idaho Enhanced Permit
Illinois
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi (Enhanced permits only)
Montana
New Mexico
North Dakota (Class 1 only)
Ohio
Oklahoma
South Dakota (Enhanced permits only)
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming
For the circumstances in which a holder of a permit issued by another state may carry
concealed in Nevada please see NRS 202.3689.
https://rccd.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/gsdnvgov/content/Resources/2021%20State%20listx(16%20July%2021).pdf
Another good source is the USCCA Reciprocity and Gun Law Map site:
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/ut-gun-laws/
No matter what, it's a good practice to check these reciprocity sources just prior to traveling, as reciprocity agreements between states can expire or be revoked. That's why it's a good idea to maybe have more than one permit when traveling. If one permit is no longer honored in a state you're in, hopefully the other one still is.
#NationalCCWReciprocityNow!
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Thanks Flapp for the resources!