2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: DEROS on October 09, 2021, 02:00:34 PM
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I need to build a Rifle Frame for Kokohead. It looks like there is a height range between 48" to 80" high. What would be a suitable height for 100yrds shooting 5.56? I have a SUV so a 48" high frame would work perfectly for transportation.
I have only shot military pop targets or used ranges that had their own targets so I never thought about the "science" of target frame size. Assuming it is a science.
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I need to build a Rifle Frame for Kokohead. It looks like there is a height range between 48" to 80" high. What would be a suitable height for 100yrds shooting 5.56? I have a SUV so a 48" high frame would work perfectly for transportation.
I have only shot military pop targets or used ranges that had their own targets so I never thought about the "science" of target frame size. Assuming it is a science.
My truck bed is slightly over 5', so I use about 60" height. I leave space at the top for steel plates and connect them with chains on the front of the frame so spatter is deflected forward of the wood. Otherwise you'll quickly destroy the legs. Ask me how I know ....
Brand new frame after one range visit:
(https://i.imgur.com/7yZLaXI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sIESv8e.jpg)
Notice the chains were attached to the horizontal bar, and that was behind the verticals. I basically turned the frame around so the horizontal piece was forward of the legs, and attached the plates in front of the horizontal. No more frame damage from bullet spatter.
As long as the legs are spaced apart properly to fit the frame holes, the legs are tapered to a round-ish shape (square lumber in a round pipe in the ground), and the rules for shooting steel are followed, you'll be fine. I've seen some creative targets out there. Some super tall or short, and some super wide. Just depends on your needs and vehicle dimensions, I guess.
I believe 50 yds is okay for steel plates using a rimfire rifle (.22 LR, .17 HMR). Centerfire are only allowed at 100 yds. Shotguns on paper targets must use slugs only at 50 or 100, but there are some 25 yds holes at one end for shotguns. For steel, shotguns are included in Centerfire rules.
The lumber dimensions are used so they are close to the size of the pipes in the ground. Technically, you can engineer a frame with the right size and spaced-apart legs to fit the pipes, then attach lumber that's of different dimensions.
Here's an example of a frame that's part wooden/part steel. FabTek Engineering made/makes some steel frames that can be used for just reactive (steel) targets, or use hooks to hold a wooden frame above it -- basically 2 targets in one.
https://www.fabtekengineering.com/koko-head-systems
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I've heard a few guys discussing purchasing a metal frame, priced at around $300 - 400. Assuming the range uses iron pipe with an inside diameter of 2.097" (schedule 40 2" pipe), a person would need to shave off 0.012" off the corners of a 2x2 piece (nominal 1.5" square) of lumber, and a similar amount on 1.5" square steel tubing. Probably a little less since steel tubing has rounded edges. Now, for the do-it-yourself handyman, all we need is to locate 1.5" steel tubing in 8' lengths and we're in business. Home Depot only has 3' lengths. A novel workaround is to use some planed wood 2x2's to join the sections from the inside.
Six pieces of metal, wood joiner, and screws would be around $130 in material. Sounds like a plan for a cottage industry. With my luck, the steel post would get stuck in the ground. :oops:
Does anyone have a quote from Fabtek for their rifle frame?
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Steel plate needs to only swing front to back and not be able to twist side to side excessively. If in doubt check with range staff.
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I bought this off amazon for $35 to hang steel from and used conduit (I think it was 7/8") for the frame and so far it works better than I expected. I didn't want to use schedule 40 pipe because of the weight.
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If your shooting paper, 48” is fine. Can hang two maybe three targets vertically. (Rifle side only.)
Steel. I got a fabtek target stand from when he first started. Two actually. A one steel target and a two steel target stand.
Really well made and fits good. Traded the two target stand and have the one target.
I go 48” because it makes for less lumber.
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Steel plate needs to only swing front to back and not be able to twist side to side excessively. If in doubt check with range staff.
If you're using chain, leather, or something else that can twist, I believe the plates require 2 points of contact between the frame and plate. That's to eliminate the twist.
If you use a swinging bar on a hinge, that's good enough (like the FabTek targets).
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I need to build a Rifle Frame for Kokohead. It looks like there is a height range between 48" to 80" high. What would be a suitable height for 100yrds shooting 5.56? I have a SUV so a 48" high frame would work perfectly for transportation.
I have only shot military pop targets or used ranges that had their own targets so I never thought about the "science" of target frame size. Assuming it is a science.
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Assuming you only shooting paper, it's super cheap and easy.
One piece of 2x2x8 cut in half.
A couple pieces of scrap wood 14 inches long.
Some screws. Cardboard. Staples.
Don't overthink it.
I like to paint the top so it's easier to identify at 100 yards.
It's not uncommon to shoot the wrong target.
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Assuming you only shooting paper, it's super cheap and easy.
One piece of 2x2x8 cut in half.
A couple pieces of scrap wood 14 inches long.
Some screws. Cardboard. Staples.
Don't overthink it.
That is what I was assuming, not over thinking. I followed the instruction for the pistol frame but when I went to the range, I saw all kinds of frames. It seemed as if the instruction was more as a suggestion as the rule. Bottom line is, make sure the feet/legs fit in the bracket and you are good.
Thanks for the pic.
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Yup. Then shoot it up and build ‘em again. :D
Oh and take a pocket knife in case you gotta whittle a little bit.
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My truck bed is slightly over 5', so I use about 60" height. I leave space at the top for steel plates and connect them with chains on the front of the frame so spatter is deflected forward of the wood. Otherwise you'll quickly destroy the legs. Ask me how I know ....
Brand new frame after one range visit:
(https://i.imgur.com/7yZLaXI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sIESv8e.jpg)
Notice the chains were attached to the horizontal bar, and that was behind the verticals. I basically turned the frame around so the horizontal piece was forward of the legs, and attached the plates in front of the horizontal. No more frame damage from bullet spatter.
As long as the legs are spaced apart properly to fit the frame holes, the legs are tapered to a round-ish shape (square lumber in a round pipe in the ground), and the rules for shooting steel are followed, you'll be fine. I've seen some creative targets out there. Some super tall or short, and some super wide. Just depends on your needs and vehicle dimensions, I guess.
I believe 50 yds is okay for steel plates using a rimfire rifle (.22 LR, .17 HMR). Centerfire are only allowed at 100 yds. Shotguns on paper targets must use slugs only at 50 or 100, but there are some 25 yds holes at one end for shotguns. For steel, shotguns are included in Centerfire rules.
The lumber dimensions are used so they are close to the size of the pipes in the ground. Technically, you can engineer a frame with the right size and spaced-apart legs to fit the pipes, then attach lumber that's of different dimensions.
Here's an example of a frame that's part wooden/part steel. FabTek Engineering made/makes some steel frames that can be used for just reactive (steel) targets, or use hooks to hold a wooden frame above it -- basically 2 targets in one.
https://www.fabtekengineering.com/koko-head-systems
That good to see that they allow steel targets. I might need to research on making on of those target trees. i.e. hit the target and it swings to the other side.
Thanks for the pics. Your frame looks like my pistol frame after my sons and wife went shooting for the first time in their life. I was afraid the RM was going to kick us out for missing the target to many times. My wife was scaring the heck out of me when she started hitting the front berm.
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That good to see that they allow steel targets. I might need to research on making on of those target trees. i.e. hit the target and it swings to the other side.
Thanks for the pics. Your frame looks like my pistol frame after my sons and wife went shooting for the first time in their life. I was afraid the RM was going to kick us out for missing the target to many times. My wife was scaring the heck out of me when she started hitting the front berm.
shooting trees not allowed...
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I've heard a few guys discussing purchasing a metal frame, priced at around $300 - 400. Assuming the range uses iron pipe with an inside diameter of 2.097" (schedule 40 2" pipe), a person would need to shave off 0.012" off the corners of a 2x2 piece (nominal 1.5" square) of lumber, and a similar amount on 1.5" square steel tubing. Probably a little less since steel tubing has rounded edges. Now, for the do-it-yourself handyman, all we need is to locate 1.5" steel tubing in 8' lengths and we're in business. Home Depot only has 3' lengths. A novel workaround is to use some planed wood 2x2's to join the sections from the inside.
Six pieces of metal, wood joiner, and screws would be around $130 in material. Sounds like a plan for a cottage industry. With my luck, the steel post would get stuck in the ground. :oops:
Does anyone have a quote from Fabtek for their rifle frame?
you're not taking into account the engineering time/costs, purchasing materials, storage, construction time, marketing, and profits...
fabtek usually goes to the gun shows, but we haven't had one since march 2020, and MAY have one again in march 2022...
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Assuming the range uses iron pipe with an inside diameter of 2.097" (schedule 40 2" pipe),
Come on man, 2" schedule 40 pipe has an inside diameter of 2.067", everyone knows that.
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I remember when the range provided frames....
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Come on man, 2" schedule 40 pipe has an inside diameter of 2.067", everyone knows that.
more amps...
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That is what I was assuming, not over thinking. I followed the instruction for the pistol frame but when I went to the range, I saw all kinds of frames. It seemed as if the instruction was more as a suggestion as the rule. Bottom line is, make sure the feet/legs fit in the bracket and you are good.
Thanks for the pic.
I invested in a couple of spring clamps, about 2.99 each at City Mill. At the pistol side there are some brackets where one side has completely rusted off and the clamps will hold the target legs to the remaining piece of metal.
I think lane #20 is like this. I was assigned this lane and the RM lent me a couple of clamps because he knew the brackets in the ground was rusted through.
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I've heard a few guys discussing purchasing a metal frame, priced at around $300 - 400. Assuming the range uses iron pipe with an inside diameter of 2.097" (schedule 40 2" pipe), a person would need to shave off 0.012" off the corners of a 2x2 piece (nominal 1.5" square) of lumber, and a similar amount on 1.5" square steel tubing. Probably a little less since steel tubing has rounded edges. Now, for the do-it-yourself handyman, all we need is to locate 1.5" steel tubing in 8' lengths and we're in business. Home Depot only has 3' lengths. A novel workaround is to use some planed wood 2x2's to join the sections from the inside.
Six pieces of metal, wood joiner, and screws would be around $130 in material. Sounds like a plan for a cottage industry. With my luck, the steel post would get stuck in the ground. :oops:
Does anyone have a quote from Fabtek for their rifle frame?
If you're using the square tubing for the verticals make sure you take a small sledge hammer and preferable a tapered steel rod the same as the inside diameter of the pipe in the ground. Bad shooters really mangled some of those in ground pipes.
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For me, i like a smaller frame. So either breakdownable for the 4ft ones or a smaller 2 foot tall 1. I live in a condo and like to be discrete. If i had a garage, then wouldnt matter.
My first wood frame was built by Heavies here. Idk if he still does it (4ft tallish).
Current metal frame i got from Prime Sports.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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If you're using the square tubing for the verticals make sure you take a small sledge hammer and preferable a tapered steel rod the same as the inside diameter of the pipe in the ground. Bad shooters really mangled some of those in ground pipes.
If they mangled it bad enough, then the pipes are no longer nominal 2.x" ID in the round. By whacking your post into the hole, don't you risk getting your post or stand stuck there permanently?
For those who own a Fabtek stand, what are the dimensions (esp. diameter) of each post, and the center-center spacing between the posts? Buying something for a lot of money, and shooting it up with .308 ammo makes it an expendable item. (I blame bad shots on ammo and Paka'a wind :rofl:).
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I've made a few different versions
first one was just hanging from the bottom of my rifle target stand, but the splash from the bullet shredded the wood real quick
second one I made from galvanized water pipe. that one is still going after a few years of use.
these are my latest. 1st one is from ebay for about $60 not including chain and targets. targets are 10"x1/2" and 6"x1/2"
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50316049673_aef0d98ac1_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50316719131_923f8b536a_b.jpg)
second one is made with 2x4's and bracket from ebay. brackets were about 20 and wood is all 4 foot lengths. targets are 3, 4, 5, and 6" x 1/4". this will be for pistol use
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50343675772_41c3b9313f_b.jpg)
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For those who own a Fabtek stand, what are the dimensions (esp. diameter) of each post, and the center-center spacing between the posts? Buying something for a lot of money, and shooting it up with .308 ammo makes it an expendable item. (I blame bad shots on ammo and Paka'a wind :rofl:).
I don't own a Fabtek stand but it is an excellent product at a very reasonable price. He uses flat bar for the post so more tolerance fitting in a mangled pipe and harder to hit with a flyer. I also know he has done free repairs on his stands due to user error.
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I went with this solution from Amazon. All steel. Steel conduit. Legs are 4’ and horizontal is 5’.
https://www.amazon.com/Highwild-AR500-Target-Stand-Kit/dp/B07SFMDKC4
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I went with this solution from Amazon. All steel. Steel conduit. Legs are 4’ and horizontal is 5’.
https://www.amazon.com/Highwild-AR500-Target-Stand-Kit/dp/B07SFMDKC4
Hello Inspector!!!!! :shaka:
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Hello Inspector!!!!! :shaka:
Hey CMO!!! Glad to see you’re still here!
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shooting trees not allowed...
Maybe I not seeing it but do you know why a shooting tree would not be allowed? If it is about swinging outside of the frame, there are targets that swing back 90degress and snaps back to original position so it will stay within the frame.
I know you don't run the range, I'm just curious if you now the rational why it is not allowed.
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I've made a few different versions
first one was just hanging from the bottom of my rifle target stand, but the splash from the bullet shredded the wood real quick
second one I made from galvanized water pipe. that one is still going after a few years of use.
these are my latest. 1st one is from ebay for about $60 not including chain and targets. targets are 10"x1/2" and 6"x1/2"
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50316049673_aef0d98ac1_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50316719131_923f8b536a_b.jpg)
second one is made with 2x4's and bracket from ebay. brackets were about 20 and wood is all 4 foot lengths. targets are 3, 4, 5, and 6" x 1/4". this will be for pistol use
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50343675772_41c3b9313f_b.jpg)
I didn't see these type of targets this weekend but are you saying they allow these type of targets at KSC? Starting to get excited about shooting a rifle again. I thought they only allowed stagnant paper targets. I was already kind of depressed about the 5rds per magazine. They should at least let use load 10.
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Maybe I not seeing it but do you know why a shooting tree would not be allowed? If it is about swinging outside of the frame, there are targets that swing back 90degress and snaps back to original position so it will stay within the frame.
I know you don't run the range, I'm just curious if you now the rational why it is not allowed.
true, i don't run the range
ask the rangemaster, he does...
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I didn't see these type of targets this weekend but are you saying they allow these type of targets at KSC?
I put out stands similar to stangzilla's with steel targets. I put them at the berm behind the 100 yard target stand pipes. I have seen guys put their stands close to other's wood stands and the RSO would instruct them to move them back so the splatter won't damage the neighboring stand. Even though I've put my stands out previously, I always check with the RSO before walking them out.
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I put out stands similar to stangzilla's with steel targets. I put them at the berm behind the 100 yard target stand pipes. I have seen guys put their stands close to other's wood stands and the RSO would instruct them to move them back so the splatter won't damage the neighboring stand. Even though I've put my stands out previously, I always check with the RSO before walking them out.
Me too. I put my steel target stand past the 100 yard line near the berm as to not splash others wood target stands. The RSO instructed me to put it out there before.
The wood stand is on a friends farm that we shoot close range with handguns
This past weekend I was shooting next to a regular uncle guy who had his steel frame steel target stand in the metal holes at 100 yards. He tells me "just so you know, you might get lead splash on your wood target frame next to my steel target." The guy could have easily moved his target 1 over bc there was nobody on that side next to him. But instead he wanted me to move mine. Kind of rude IMO. But out of respect for uncle, I moved my target. No sense escalating the situation. I just dont appreciate when others think bc they regulars at a certain bench, they own the place
For the rest of the time I was there, uncle was serenaded by my 308 tank muzzle brake :geekdanc:
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Maybe I not seeing it but do you know why a shooting tree would not be allowed? If it is about swinging outside of the frame, there are targets that swing back 90degress and snaps back to original position so it will stay within the frame.
I know you don't run the range, I'm just curious if you now the rational why it is not allowed.
dueling tree no allowed because swing is side to side vs front to back. possible ricochet problem.
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Maybe I not seeing it but do you know why a shooting tree would not be allowed? If it is about swinging outside of the frame, there are targets that swing back 90degress and snaps back to original position so it will stay within the frame.
I know you don't run the range, I'm just curious if you now the rational why it is not allowed.
Anything fun is not allowed
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Not fair. I was about to donate the Hawaii Star, based on our unofficial state fruit, da Pineapple.
(https://i.imgur.com/wUkQEX7.jpg)
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The price of a Fabtek Engineering rifle target stand is less expensive than I originally thought. The half-metal, half-wood frame is only $225. Size is 14" wide and 61.5" tall. It is heavy due to the steel targets.
(https://www.fabtekengineering.com/x/cdn/?https://storage.googleapis.com/wzukusers/user-17326413/images/56511fb83cb56GrZkUuc/IMG_4429_1450.JPG)
Apparently legal to use at the 100 yd + locations at the KHSC rifle range. One reseller is OGC Tactical. Two units were available at the start of the week, but were sold out by the weekend. The manufacturer prices the replacement cost of the wood sections at $35 (estimated). That may be of concern to those who are not sharpshooters.
Noticed a kid at the store asking about the availability of a concealed carry pistol earlier in the week. He was accompanied by his dad. Seems to be a run on small pistols due to SCOTUS cases. Or, we could be seeing a big holiday rush on all gun-related items.
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Assuming you only shooting paper, it's super cheap and easy.
One piece of 2x2x8 cut in half.
A couple pieces of scrap wood 14 inches long.
Some screws. Cardboard. Staples.
Don't overthink it.
I like to paint the top so it's easier to identify at 100 yards.
It's not uncommon to shoot the wrong target.
You no ober tink'ing, jus pake' :rofl: :rofl:
:wave:
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You no ober tink'ing, jus pake' :rofl: :rofl:
:wave:
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This is true. But I also have enough common sense to not put anything expensive downrange.