Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2021, 08:53:52 PM
Reminds me of Brandon Lee.
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Post by: ren on October 21, 2021, 09:24:50 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 21, 2021, 09:25:42 PM
At least it wasn't like others who were goofing around when it happened.
You'd think the studios would hire someone who knows something about guns to work with the props department when using guns.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2021, 09:32:11 PM
But that sucks for the worker who got shot.
Post by: ren on October 21, 2021, 09:37:50 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2021, 09:45:42 PM
Hes probably going to use this to say how dangerous guns are so no one should have them.I was thinking this. Luckily, its a western so revolver or pump rifle/shotgun.
But that sucks for the worker who got shot.
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Post by: aieahound on October 21, 2021, 09:51:04 PM
I was thinking this. Luckily, its a western so revolver or pump rifle/shotgun.
Must have been a through and through for one dead and one injured. Single action.
Off a blank ?
Did he not know and keep shooting ?
And it wasn’t other actors that were shot so wasn’t during a scene.
No Facts. Just Conjecture.
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 22, 2021, 05:58:03 AM
You'd think the studios would hire someone who knows something about guns to work with the props department when using guns.
Yes, after the Brandon Lee incident one would expect improved protocols would be in place.
Profit before safety?
Post by: Rocky on October 22, 2021, 07:22:51 AM
Post by: Jl808 on October 22, 2021, 07:26:44 AM
The charge on the blank cartridge propelled the bullet in the barrel.
I wonder if its the same here.
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 22, 2021, 07:59:08 AM
My question is " Why was there live ammunition on a set in the first place" ? :wtf:
Exactly.
There are scenes when the character is pointing the revolver at someone and you can clearly see the bullets in the chambers. Movies strive for realistic scenes so this is understandable. Those rounds are inert rounds.
So one would imagine there would be protocols in place. Like you mentioned, why was there live ammunition on set? And truth be told, an inert round looks the same as live rounds at a glance.
Just like we do a safety check on a firearm, when it is handed to another person that person should do a safety check also. It's a protocol that insures the firearm is safe at all times.
I bet the movie industry will finally get their heads out of their asses after this incident.
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 22, 2021, 08:00:57 AM
Brandon Lee supposedly got shot on set when the prop gun had a bullet in the barrel and blank cartridges were used.
The charge on the blank cartridge propelled the bullet in the barrel.
I wonder if its the same here.
It does seem like deja vu. :(
Post by: aieahound on October 22, 2021, 08:11:52 AM
Also the live ammo.
“A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza,” the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE) Local 44 said in an email to its members.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/prop-gun-using-blanks-still-052227936.html
Post by: macsak on October 22, 2021, 08:21:26 AM
https://twitter.com/KEEMSTAR/status/1451391902994116614
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 22, 2021, 08:43:33 AM
1) Brandon Lee situation. Squib type load. Projectile in the barrel. Then blanks used which pushes the head down the barrel.
2) Plugged barrel weld or like internal devise became loose and was propelled like above. This differs from a military BFA. Many gas operated weapons need plugged barrels to operate (AR15). If not, you have to pull the charging handle after every round.
3) Live ammo used (unlikely, but possible). Mix up of prop ammo and live ammo. If it was a revolver, many movies, you see the head in the cylinder when watching from the front.
We will have to wait to see.
For 2 people being shot, it could have been a frontal scene so he is shooting at the camera. That's if it was for a scene or rehearsal. Then maybe went thru 1 person and into the other. Unknown yet. If this was not a rehearsal, like they're just goofing off or something, then that's a different story.
Some are saying that the actor should know the condition of the gun and check, or don't point the gun at anyone anyways. That's not how Hollywood works. Actors rely on the prop guy. And the actors focus on acting, not props. Especially if the gun isn't a main part of the storyline like John Wick. But even then, does Keanu load his own mags with blanks to verify, or does the prop people do it for him and hand said gun to the actors.
Post by: 6716J on October 22, 2021, 09:13:58 AM
Sadly, there is one dead and another injured. And in 6 months, it will be back to normal for the film industry after this accident, until the next one. On the plus side of the industry is that they do have a fairly exemplary record of safety with firearms. They are discharged thousands of time annually with the most serious incident being a powder burn
Post by: Jl808 on October 22, 2021, 10:37:23 AM
Post by: Heavies on October 22, 2021, 11:12:09 AM
Actors can’t be trusted with guns, obviously.
Post by: aieahound on October 22, 2021, 06:09:17 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 22, 2021, 08:23:18 PM
Must have been a through and through for one dead and one injured. Single action.
Off a blank ?
Did he not know and keep shooting ?
And it wasn’t other actors that were shot so wasn’t during a scene.
No Facts. Just Conjecture.
I thought most of these stage guns had a blocked barrel so an actual bullet shouldn't even be able to go down the barrel... I wonder if the barrel obstructor came loose over time and shot out?
I remember in a stage combat class I took in college they covered using guns in acting. They said even if blanks were being used you should aim the gun off to the side of the actor just in case.
Post by: ren on October 22, 2021, 08:26:35 PM
https://youtu.be/azacEn1OU_4
Greg Gutfield's response is spot on. If it was a police officer, Alec's Twitter would be on fire blaming the police officer and guns.
Post by: hvybarrels on October 22, 2021, 11:02:56 PM
Hollywood’s safety record has been going down the tubes because the studios are losing money with their woke garbage and corporate commie brainwashing, so they try to make it up by screwing it out of the crew. I’m sad that IATSE did not strike in the recent negotiation because you know whatever agreement they came up with will be in bad faith and the producers will double back and crew members will keep getting injured and killed as soon as it’s convenient.
I guess that’s part of the hazard of holding your nose in order to accept paychecks from a culture of rapists, child molesters, and their enablers.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 22, 2021, 11:21:22 PM
I thought most of these stage guns had a blocked barrel so an actual bullet shouldn't even be able to go down the barrel... I wonder if the barrel obstructor came loose over time and shot out?
I remember in a stage combat class I took in college they covered using guns in acting. They said even if blanks were being used you should aim the gun off to the side of the actor just in case.
Prop guns come in a variety of types. They might be actual toy guns with parts painted, removed or added to make them more realistic. Some are airsoft and BB type, since many of them are almost identical in appearance to the real thing. Then there are the actual firearms. Sometimes they use starter pistols when the design isn't important. Most often though they use firearms with blanks to provide realism with sound, smoke and a little recoil.
What I read about Lee's accident is there was a piece of a cartridge still in the barrel from a previous blank round. The gases and wadding of the next round pushed that out as a projectile and into Lee's skull where he was pointing it.
The prop managers are supposed to have a procedure to make sure more than one person checks and rechecks the guns on set for safety. Since we don't have the answer to what really happened, we have no way to know who screwed up. For all we know, someone hates someone on that set and replaced a blank with a live round. Or they asked an intern to load it who can't tell a blank from a live round.
All we do know is they were rehearsing or filming a scene with people standing directly in front of Baldwin's gun as he fired.
My big question is: if he was shooting a scene (or rehearsing) why did someone other than another actor get killed? If Baldwin was aiming the gun at whoever the script said to point it at, shouldn't they have been more likely to be hit instead?
Need way more info before pointing fingers. I think the prop guys can only take safety so far. The actors, director and stunt professionals ought to take a minute to ensure guns aren't being pointed at the crew at anytime. Basic firearm safety.
Post by: WTF?Shane on October 23, 2021, 01:20:17 AM
My big question is: if he was shooting a scene (or rehearsing) why did someone other than another actor get killed? If Baldwin was aiming the gun at whoever the script said to point it at, shouldn't they have been more likely to be hit instead?
Actor was probably facing towards the camera and crew. Something like this:
(https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/joseph-gordon-levitt-in-looper-2012-movie-image-e1332035632364.jpg)
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 23, 2021, 01:41:34 AM
https://youtu.be/GIlUoCUcR4I
Post by: macsak on October 23, 2021, 05:53:48 AM
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
Post by: hvybarrels on October 23, 2021, 07:39:16 AM
ADs should not be handling guns, just actors and props team. Union rules.
Set was unsafe and sounds like they were rushing and playing fast and loose with the rules per typical Hollywood style these days
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 23, 2021, 08:33:37 AM
surprised no one posted this yet
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
Thanks for posting this. Interesting that the article mentioned that the crew usually retreats to a "video village" and through monitors view the action from a distance.
At the time of the incident, the crew members were still adjusting their camera angles, which would suggest that they weren't "ready" to start filming yet.
So why the hell was Alec f**king around with the gun when they weren't ready yet? Was he practicing? Did they tell him to go through the moves so they can tweak the camera angles?
Man, this is so messed up. But very obvious that safety was not the top priority for some time there prior to the tragedy.
Post by: Inspector on October 23, 2021, 02:59:55 PM
Post by: DocMercy on October 23, 2021, 03:16:08 PM
https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-could-face-liability-in-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins-legal-experts/ (https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-could-face-liability-in-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins-legal-experts/)
"New Mexico criminal attorney Erlinda Johnson, a former state and federal prosecutor said the “Beetlejuice” actor could face possible criminal liability for involuntary manslaughter."
If the movie were made in Hawaii, then I guarantee you that the attorney general of this state would have requested the police to take Baldwin into custody and charge him with negligent homicide. He needs an attorney with the stature of Kevin O'Grady. All of the lawyers Baldwin has on speed-dial are not going to do him any good unless they are licensed to practice in New Mexico.
Post by: ren on October 23, 2021, 04:14:19 PM
NY Post article indicates that Baldwin should be very worried, as he was the executive producer of the movie.
https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-could-face-liability-in-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins-legal-experts/ (https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-could-face-liability-in-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins-legal-experts/)
"New Mexico criminal attorney Erlinda Johnson, a former state and federal prosecutor said the “Beetlejuice” actor could face possible criminal liability for involuntary manslaughter."
If the movie were made in Hawaii, then I guarantee you that the attorney general of this state would have requested the police to take Baldwin into custody and charge him with negligent homicide. He needs an attorney with the stature of Kevin O'Grady. All of the lawyers Baldwin has on speed-dial are not going to do him any good unless they are licensed to practice in New Mexico.
I don't believe he will be prosecuted for anything. This guy was the poster boy for everything anti-Trump. If this happened in Hawaii it would've been swept under the carpet.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 23, 2021, 04:16:51 PM
Lots of people walked away from the set because of safety concerns.
Other crew members were brought in to fill in for the walk-out.
I wonder if one of the disgruntled crew caused the gun to be loaded incorrectly as revenge or to make a point about lax safety.
Hmmmm ...... :shake:
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 23, 2021, 07:28:27 PM
I wonder if one of the disgruntled crew caused the gun to be loaded incorrectly as revenge or to make a point about lax safety.
Hmmmm ...... :shake:
I started to think the same thing. And if indeed this is the case, I wonder how the disgruntled crew member(s) feel now that this tragedy happened.
I think eventually Heads will roll......from the producer all the way down to the armorer.
And if not, then the swamp in Hollywood is as deep and corrupt as the swamp in Washington D.C.
Post by: hvybarrels on October 23, 2021, 09:18:05 PM
I wonder if one of the disgruntled crew caused the gun to be loaded incorrectly as revenge or to make a point about lax safety.
Hmmmm ...... :shake:
I sincerely doubt it. Crew members regularly rescue each other from hazards by pointing out and addressing safety issues before they become a problem. It’s often dangerous work and the person you saved from a possibly life threatening situation may return the favor some day. The kind of people who put other crew members lives in jeopardy do not get called back.
Above-the-line people are more likely to think and act like predators and psychopaths. Their bad behavior gets swept under the rug and even encouraged as long as the are making lots of money.
(https://www.unilad.co.uk/cdn-cgi/image/width=648,quality=70,format=webp,fit=pad,dpr=2/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.unilad.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F10%2FWeinstein-1.jpg)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 23, 2021, 11:04:18 PM
I do remember an old story of some actor pretending to shoot himself with a blank but there was so much pressure from the blank that when the gun was pressed up against his head it was enough to kill him still. Doesn't sound like that in this case so I think it either was a live round or some sort of barrel obstruction that shot out from the blank. Maybe someone plugged the barrel with a rock on accident?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 23, 2021, 11:33:08 PM
Until there isn''t.
When Brandon Scott Lee died, he was shot in the abdomen with a .44. The bullet lodged in his spine It was during the final weeks of filming, and supposedly the weapons expert had already left. They still needed to film the scene where Lee's character was murdered, and someone else loaded the gun with a live round.
There was a theory that part of a "dummy bullet" was lodged in the barrel, and a blank turned it into a projectile. Dummy bullets have no powder or primer, and are used for close-ups when they want it to appear as if the gun is loaded with real ammo. Then the dummy bullets are replaced with blanks for any shooting sequences. Experts have said that's highly unlikely if they were using well-made dummies. But, since the last weeks were hurried and the expert wasn't there, it's possible someone tried to create dummies and didn't do a good job -- meaning there could have been a "squib" type bullet head in the barrel if the dummy bullet separated.
There's no direct evidence of a squibbed dummy bullet, and I imagine they would have examined the firearm and determined if the round fired was a blank or not, so why this theory still exists is puzzling to me. I could see someone making up a theory to avoid being blamed for loading the live round.
This accident will likely follow a similar path. Lots of questions, incomplete and inconsistent answers, but no definite conclusions. Baldwin is rich, famous, and a woke-sounding Democrat. Somebody will shield him (ala Jussie and Kamala).
Post by: Heavies on October 24, 2021, 05:13:00 AM
Nothing going to happen to him. The lowest paid person on the set is going to get the blame. They will use this to spread anti gun propaganda for you and me, and not the actual responsible.
That’s how this will play out.
Just saying.
Post by: Inspector on October 24, 2021, 05:23:40 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on October 24, 2021, 06:53:13 AM
https://www.rt.com/usa/538317-baldwin-shooting-armorer-rust/
Post by: macsak on October 24, 2021, 07:05:24 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on October 24, 2021, 08:05:45 AM
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243997 (https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243997)
Apparently the incident happened between takes. Why was Baldwin aiming at the cinematographer and squeezing off a shot? Was there some kind of beef going on during what seemed like a particularly frustrating day? Was he joking around?
Studios should have everyone who handles a firearm do at minimum a quick NRA style safety class.
They love guns in their movies but hate the people who could save them from themselves.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 24, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
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Post by: macsak on October 24, 2021, 10:37:52 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUiJ7JhOIlk
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 24, 2021, 08:16:20 PM
Enjoy!
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Post by: macsak on October 24, 2021, 08:24:05 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 24, 2021, 08:30:19 PM
You don't have to be a real armorer. You just have to act like one!
:geekdanc: :popcorn:
Post by: hvybarrels on October 24, 2021, 10:15:12 PM
There will definitely be a lot more to this story going forward.
Post by: Inspector on October 25, 2021, 02:52:03 AM
https://rumble.com/vo78rz-fox-news-l.a.-times-reports-stunt-double-accidentally-fired-rounds-days-pri.html
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 25, 2021, 05:43:07 AM
Imagine this: Rookie armorer doing everything they can to maintain safety protocols and here comes the set managers and directors and dismissing them every time they need to "move things along".
Post by: DocMercy on October 25, 2021, 06:25:40 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/warrant-baldwin-practicing-gun-052422920.html (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/warrant-baldwin-practicing-gun-052422920.html)
"Joel advised they returned back to the set after lunch, although he is not sure if the firearm was checked again," the warrant states. "Joel stated they had Alec sitting in a pew in a church building setting, and he was practicing a cross draw. Joel said he was looking over the shoulder of Halayna, when he heard what sounded like a whip and then loud pop," according to the warrant, which misspelled Hutchins' first name.
Glad that Hawaii has a requirement for a six-hour safety course for potential gun owners. The same should apply to NM for anyone involved in handling a real or fake weapon on a movie set.
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 25, 2021, 06:52:56 AM
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/10/state-lawmaker-calls-for-ban-on-live-ammunition-and-real-guns-on-california-movie-sets/
A California state senator called for a ban on live ammunition on movie sets and in theatrical productions following the death Thursday of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins involving a prop gun fired by actor Alec Baldwin on a New Mexico movie set.
State Sen. Dave Cortese, D-San Jose, chair of the Senate Labor Committee, said he would introduce legislation that would ban live ammunition and firearms capable of shooting live ammunition from California movie sets and theatrical productions. With the Legislature now in recess, details of any bill are not likely to be available until January.
“There is an urgent need to address alarming work abuses and safety violations occurring on the set of theatrical productions, including unnecessary high-risk conditions such as the use of live firearms,” Cortese said in a statement.
“It is important that California establish new safety standards and best practices for all those who work in the industry and particularly in our own state,” he said. “Those working behind the scenes to entertain and bring joy to millions all over the world shouldn’t go to set worrying if they will return home safely to their family. Our entertainment industry must do a better job of ensuring safe working conditions for our hardworking crews.
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Post by: drck1000 on October 25, 2021, 07:30:19 AM
State lawmaker calls for ban on live ammunition and real guns on California movie setsGreat. Never led a tragedy go to waste. . . ::) I'm surprised our "Dr. Green" hasn't chimed in. . .
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/10/state-lawmaker-calls-for-ban-on-live-ammunition-and-real-guns-on-california-movie-sets/
A California state senator called for a ban on live ammunition on movie sets and in theatrical productions following the death Thursday of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins involving a prop gun fired by actor Alec Baldwin on a New Mexico movie set.
State Sen. Dave Cortese, D-San Jose, chair of the Senate Labor Committee, said he would introduce legislation that would ban live ammunition and firearms capable of shooting live ammunition from California movie sets and theatrical productions. With the Legislature now in recess, details of any bill are not likely to be available until January.
“There is an urgent need to address alarming work abuses and safety violations occurring on the set of theatrical productions, including unnecessary high-risk conditions such as the use of live firearms,” Cortese said in a statement.
“It is important that California establish new safety standards and best practices for all those who work in the industry and particularly in our own state,” he said. “Those working behind the scenes to entertain and bring joy to millions all over the world shouldn’t go to set worrying if they will return home safely to their family. Our entertainment industry must do a better job of ensuring safe working conditions for our hardworking crews.
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So good luck to the security folks. Or, going to have a "magic" line where you cross, then can't have firearms. Works so well at Thomas Square where a green stripe is supposed to designated the park and outside the park. Much different circumstances, but I think a logical person can make the connection.
Post by: ren on October 25, 2021, 07:34:18 AM
State lawmaker calls for ban on live ammunition and real guns on California movie sets
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/10/state-lawmaker-calls-for-ban-on-live-ammunition-and-real-guns-on-california-movie-sets/
A California state senator called for a ban on live ammunition on movie sets and in theatrical productions following the death Thursday of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins involving a prop gun fired by actor Alec Baldwin on a New Mexico movie set.
State Sen. Dave Cortese, D-San Jose, chair of the Senate Labor Committee, said he would introduce legislation that would ban live ammunition and firearms capable of shooting live ammunition from California movie sets and theatrical productions. With the Legislature now in recess, details of any bill are not likely to be available until January.
“There is an urgent need to address alarming work abuses and safety violations occurring on the set of theatrical productions, including unnecessary high-risk conditions such as the use of live firearms,” Cortese said in a statement.
“It is important that California establish new safety standards and best practices for all those who work in the industry and particularly in our own state,” he said. “Those working behind the scenes to entertain and bring joy to millions all over the world shouldn’t go to set worrying if they will return home safely to their family. Our entertainment industry must do a better job of ensuring safe working conditions for our hardworking crews.
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didn't this occur in New Mexico?
Post by: ren on October 25, 2021, 07:34:57 AM
Post by: Inspector on October 25, 2021, 11:04:59 AM
https://danaloesch.substack.com/p/yes-baldwin-absolutely-bears-some?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyMzY0ODQ4OSwiXyI6IjVwdHlLIiwiaWF0IjoxNjM1MTk1ODM0LCJleHAiOjE2MzUxOTk0MzQsImlzcyI6InB1Yi04NDgzNiIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.j19cOGFB7h9yiPn6lMwTq7vgW6nALWORpLbglLhxacc
Post by: aieahound on October 25, 2021, 11:36:16 AM
Not as shooter.
That’s the first report I’ve read says he acknowledged being handed a hot gun. All other reports say assistant director called cold gun when he handed him the weapon.
In my opinion.
Post by: drck1000 on October 25, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
As Producer.Rules of firearm safety?
Not as shooter.
That’s the first report I’ve read says he acknowledged being handed a hot gun. All other reports say assistant director called cold gun when he handed him the weapon.
In my opinion.
Should make him do community service. . . [\sarcasm]
Post by: Inspector on October 25, 2021, 11:44:25 AM
Rules of firearm safety?Should make him teach gun safety for the NRA. :rofl:
Should make him do community service. . . [\sarcasm]
Post by: Heavies on October 25, 2021, 11:51:15 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 25, 2021, 12:06:28 PM
All guns are loaded…. Never point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy…. Always be sure of your target, and what lies behind….
I would make the exception for films. Often guns are pointed at the camera to get the desired effect. And I don't expect actors to understand safety rules. They do as their told.
Enter Karen Hill scene in Good Fellas, but empty. And everyone makes fun of that guy from The Walking Dead with the revolver pointed at the ground, until now.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211025/a3e9473a16dd4e4ff92e7e33d3cbdd40.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211025/021c33ce1193539bf650422f87e0be21.jpg)
Post by: rustyeleio on October 25, 2021, 01:03:20 PM
(Sorry, this video was posted earlier so i deleted it)
My opinion/guesses: Whether Alec should have checked it himself is a good question to come up. Not sure if that will hold up in court because there may be no legal requirement for the actor to double check a prop gun handed to him by a "qualified" person. Definitely would have been a life saving practice here. I question whether most actors would know what to check so it would require actors to get some basic firearm handling training (not prop gun handling, real training like an NRA class) which would be a great thing actually. Now, if there was no "qualified person" on set, that is a separate issue. I imagine that sometimes a scene may require the actor to handle a gun in a manner that violates at least two rules so I won't personnally bring that up as a primary cause. Because of this assumption, they gotta be damn sure it is unloaded. Maybe there is such a thing as a non-functional prop gun ( ???) that they could swap in and out of the scene and edit at the end but that seems a little impractical. Again, just guessing.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 25, 2021, 02:50:25 PM
How does that increase safety? Safety would involve having a certified and trained armorer or firearms instructor on set and exclusively preparing and managing the props.
When your 10 year old crashes his bicycle and gets a head wound, does taking his bike away "increase bike safety?" No! You buy the kid a helmet, and you teach him HOW TO BE SAFE. That way, if he's ever riding another bike, even one you didn't buy him, he knows more about riding safely.
If they required training of everyone handling guns on the set, they would be SAFER when handling guns OFF the set. That equates to "increased gun safety."
If they required a certified trainer, armorer, etc, they would ensure everyone handling the guns was properly trained, thereby increasing safety.
So, what happens when someone gets injured with a non-firearm prop gun from not practicing gun safety? Ban those too?
This really gets old.
Post by: Jl808 on October 25, 2021, 02:55:13 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 25, 2021, 04:40:58 PM
and I'm almost positive there were a few scenes with guns being fired.
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 25, 2021, 04:56:14 PM
But he also is a producer of the movie. Which makes him responsible for everything in the movie, including safety.
The producers and directors are the ones that affect the working environment and team atmosphere. They are the ones that can either foster a great team that works with and respects each other or create an atmosphere that is toxic and in this case dangerous.
Looks like profit was the driving force to the point where they abused labor and working conditions.
Alec Baldwin should be held accountable.
Post by: hvybarrels on October 25, 2021, 06:29:15 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211025/a3e9473a16dd4e4ff92e7e33d3cbdd40.jpg)
“No Rick, the OTHER head!”
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 25, 2021, 08:58:49 PM
If Alec Baldwin was just an actor in this movie they were making, I'll cut him some slack.
Even if he were just the actor I still think he screwed up a little. I learned in stage combat that we don't point the blank firing guns at other actors but just to the side of them. Maybe Alec Baldwin was never taught this safety measure but it could have saved a life.
Post by: macsak on October 25, 2021, 09:46:01 PM
“No Rick, the OTHER head!”
heads
Post by: rpoL98 on October 26, 2021, 01:36:05 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 26, 2021, 02:39:39 PM
so the thing where HG removed the spent casing from the prop gun when she handed it to the deputies, was she trying to do some monkey business with the evidence? seems like that she probably would've rushed to check what the heck kind of cartridge it was immediately after the shooting, almost as a reflex, not later when the deputies arrive?
There's no question it was a LIVE round in the gun when it killed the crew member.
But, I agree, all props, should have been put down immediately, and everyone ordered to leave the area. There should have been crew members stationed around it to keep everyone out until the police arrived. Evidence can't be trusted if there are crew members handling it.
It's possible someone fired from a distance at the same moment Baldwin pulled the trigger, making it look & sound like he did it.
I think I saw that in a movie once! :rofl:
Post by: DocMercy on October 26, 2021, 07:21:12 PM
(https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-never-let-a-crisis-go-to-waste-saul-alinsky-68-67-41.jpg)
One of the leading liberal spokesmen used this quote in one of his recent videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPPVtdWTgTc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPPVtdWTgTc)
I say the liberal doth protest too much. Everything in this thread is well-thought out, and not malicious in the least. The gun community has been emphasizing safety as a means of minimizing accidents like this. I recall a hunting accident where Dick Cheney shot his friend, a Texas attorney. The NY Daily News chastised Cheney for never publicly apologizing to his friend. David Letterman parodied Cheney in a silly skit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMvPrG_2GW4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMvPrG_2GW4)
Nobody is an angel. Let us be humble enough to learn from our mistakes. In carpentry, they say we should measure twice and cut once. With weapons, check at least three times and shoot once, further making sure to not harm innocents in the area.
Post by: macsak on October 26, 2021, 08:03:10 PM
Post by: drck1000 on October 26, 2021, 08:27:40 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-movie-shooting-criminal-charges-on-the-table-district-attorney.amp
Not gonna hold my breath, but will be interesting if anything comes of this.
Post by: ren on October 26, 2021, 08:35:40 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 27, 2021, 12:53:08 PM
A mass shooting is 4 or more people.
So Baldwin, 2 who got shot makes 3 people. Was there a 4th there as well? Or was the set totally closed off.
So this would make Baldwin a mass shooter. How come MDA or ET hasn't labeled this incident as such? We all know how they love to combine active and mass shootings alike.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 27, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
Here me out on this one.
A mass shooting is 4 or more people.
So Baldwin, 2 who got shot makes 3 people. Was there a 4th there as well? Or was the set totally closed off.
So this would make Baldwin a mass shooter. How come MDA or ET hasn't labeled this incident as such? We all know how they love to combine active and mass shootings alike.
Technically:
The FBI has no official definition for mass shooting. In fact, they are trying to relabel the stats to "mass killing", to better capture that fact that a given number of victims dies, whereas "shooting" would not necessarily achieve the same number of deaths but would still qualify under "mass shooting". The glaring hole in most of this is the term "shooting." That doesn't allow for mass murders by other than firearms. What if a team holds 20 people hostage in a bank, then they kill 2 by knife, 2 by bludgeoning, and 2 by firearm? That's 6 dead in a single event within the same structure. If they were all killed by the same person using firearms, it would be a mass shooting by most current definitions. Mass killing should categorize these types of events, however rare, in a way that takes the focus off the weapon used. (My opinion) The OK City bombing is an example of mass killing where no guns were involved. Should that not be included in the stats for mass shootings?
In 2013, Congress defined mass shootings as a single incident that leaves three or more people dead.
Quote
In its research essay "Mass Shootings in the United States," the Rand Corporation said,https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/definitions-of-mass-shooting-vary/ar-BB1fJ0nQ
"There is no standard definition of what constitutes a mass shooting, and different data
sources—such as media outlets, academic researchers, and law enforcement agencies—
frequently use different definitions when discussing and analyzing mass shootings."
"The U.S. government has never defined mass shooting as a separate category of crime,"
according to Rand, "and there is not yet a broadly accepted definition of the term."
Even though the FBI routinely releases data on mass shootings, any body count used to categorize such events is often judged to be arbitrary -- which it is. Whether 3 or 4 or more constitutes a mass shooting or mass killing, all committed in close proximity to each other and in a single event -- an event that could extend over man y hours -- it's all arbitrarily decided. Those who want to paint the US as a nation having an epidemic of mass shootings will include gang, domestic violence, and any shooting that takes place where more than 3 or 4 "targets" are gathered. The fact that only 1 or 2 were killed or wounded should not recategorize the mass shooting. If a good guy with a gun stops a mass shooting before 3-4 people are killed (other than the mass shooter), are we not able to interpret the intent of the killer was to kill as many as possible?
Most organizations doing the math exclude the mass shooter in the number of deaths. So, 3 dead plus the gunman would not equal the 4 fatalities necessary to qualify as a mass shooting, assuming 4 is the standard being used.
This is one area I think the CDC or other agency could spend some of that research money they are getting. They could map out new categories and redefine existing ones to create a standard for each that's based on common sense, not arbitrary decisions or activists' desires to manipulate the data.
This is probably a bit off-topic, but it follows onto the question about whether Baldwin is a "mass shooter". I think he would have had to demonstrate intent to shoot multiple people before we can go there.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 27, 2021, 01:58:12 PM
Technically:
The FBI has no official definition for mass shooting. In fact, they are trying to relabel the stats to "mass killing", to better capture that fact that a given number of victims dies, whereas "shooting" would not necessarily achieve the same number of deaths but would still qualify under "mass shooting". The glaring hole in most of this is the term "shooting." That doesn't allow for mass murders by other than firearms. What if a team holds 20 people hostage in a bank, then they kill 2 by knife, 2 by bludgeoning, and 2 by firearm? That's 6 dead in a single event within the same structure. If they were all killed by the same person using firearms, it would be a mass shooting by most current definitions. Mass killing should categorize these types of events, however rare, in a way that takes the focus off the weapon used. (My opinion) The OK City bombing is an example of mass killing where no guns were involved. Should that not be included in the stats for mass shootings?
In 2013, Congress defined mass shootings as a single incident that leaves three or more people dead.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/definitions-of-mass-shooting-vary/ar-BB1fJ0nQ
Even though the FBI routinely releases data on mass shootings, any body count used to categorize such events is often judged to be arbitrary -- which it is. Whether 3 or 4 or more constitutes a mass shooting or mass killing, all committed in close proximity to each other and in a single event -- an event that could extend over man y hours -- it's all arbitrarily decided. Those who want to paint the US as a nation having an epidemic of mass shootings will include gang, domestic violence, and any shooting that takes place where more than 3 or 4 "targets" are gathered. The fact that only 1 or 2 were killed or wounded should not recategorize the mass shooting. If a good guy with a gun stops a mass shooting before 3-4 people are killed (other than the mass shooter), are we not able to interpret the intent of the killer was to kill as many as possible?
Most organizations doing the math exclude the mass shooter in the number of deaths. So, 3 dead plus the gunman would not equal the 4 fatalities necessary to qualify as a mass shooting, assuming 4 is the standard being used.
This is one area I think the CDC or other agency could spend some of that research money they are getting. They could map out new categories and redefine existing ones to create a standard for each that's based on common sense, not arbitrary decisions or activists' desires to manipulate the data.
This is probably a bit off-topic, but it follows onto the question about whether Baldwin is a "mass shooter". I think he would have had to demonstrate intent to shoot multiple people before we can go there.
Damn, you went into some deep detail. My post was more of me being snarky. Another question is if a shooter kills 2 and then themselves, now do we have 3 deaths? (just being a smartass now)
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 27, 2021, 02:07:21 PM
Damn, you went into some deep detail. My post was more of me being snarky. Another question is if a shooter kills 2 and then themselves, now do we have 3 deaths? (just being a smartass now)
I did mention that in my "book report." :geekdanc:
Quote
Most organizations doing the math exclude the mass shooter in the number of deaths.
So, 3 dead plus the gunman would not equal the 4 fatalities necessary to qualify as a
mass shooting, assuming 4 is the standard being used.
This whole "definition of a mass shooting" problem arises because of the media and anti-gun activists. They decide which definition they want to use in a story, and there's no definitive source to dispute them. The media tends to create confusion sometimes to make their facts seem more significant, but most of the time is just because they are ignorant -- they think they know what the words mean, but they are wrong.
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 29, 2021, 07:20:29 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211029/f8e76a63119a6969ab6c7d9270465d52.jpg)Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 29, 2021, 07:21:15 AM
Post by: drck1000 on November 02, 2021, 10:29:00 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 03, 2021, 09:05:40 AM
Post by: drck1000 on November 03, 2021, 09:12:27 AM
Fake news got his back, had a article pop up on my feed that he took to IG to defend himself with screen shot messages or something. If the exact same thing happened to his BFF Trump, Alec would be calling for his arrest, the arrest of all on set, and the producers. TDS is real.Saw the "she was my best friend" campaign.
Post by: macsak on November 03, 2021, 09:47:25 AM
Saw the "she was my best friend" campaign.
link?
Post by: drck1000 on November 03, 2021, 10:03:49 AM
link?please tell me where I said I had a link. . .
Post by: drck1000 on November 03, 2021, 10:04:48 AM
Post by: macsak on November 03, 2021, 10:05:25 AM
please tell me where I said I had a link. . .
bruh
Post by: Inspector on November 03, 2021, 10:28:39 AM
Post by: DocMercy on November 04, 2021, 10:49:48 AM
(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAQk8Nz.img?h=1123&w=1123&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=507&y=505)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dwayne-johnson-says-his-production-company-will-stop-using-real-guns/ar-AAQjYcr (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dwayne-johnson-says-his-production-company-will-stop-using-real-guns/ar-AAQjYcr)
"There are safety protocols and measures that we have always taken in the movie business and we take very seriously, and these sets are safe sets, and we're proud of that," he said. "But accidents do happen. And when something like this happens of this magnitude, [that is] this heartbreaking, I think the most prudent thing and the smartest thing to do is just pause for a second and really re-examine how you're going to move forward and how we're going to work together."
In case you want to see what a fake rubber gun looks like, check this out (faux Beretta M9).
https://www.newrulefx.com/collections/foam-props-weapons/products/newrulefx-brand-lightweight-foam-rubber-inert-m9-beretta-service-pistol-replica-gun-prop (https://www.newrulefx.com/collections/foam-props-weapons/products/newrulefx-brand-lightweight-foam-rubber-inert-m9-beretta-service-pistol-replica-gun-prop)
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 04, 2021, 11:06:39 AM
Post by: drck1000 on November 04, 2021, 11:14:25 AM
On the firearms training for Doom, the 1st thing the instructor did was shoot the rifle with a blank at a mannequins head. Got all powder burn and jacked up. This was to stress the point to the actors that blanks are dangerous.You mean it's not like on the movies?
Post by: ren on November 04, 2021, 11:21:32 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 04, 2021, 11:34:52 AM
Post by: Inspector on November 18, 2021, 04:11:18 PM
https://nypost.com/2021/11/17/alec-baldwin-intentionally-fired-deadly-shot-on-rust-film-set-suit/
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 01, 2021, 07:38:18 PM
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on December 01, 2021, 10:04:10 PM
"I never pressed the trigger". Sounds like his lawyer told him what to say.
Baldwin was holding the gun.
The gun fired, and people in the direction of where he pointed the gun were struck.
I submit that somebody pulled that trigger. Was he saying someone else pulled the trigger as he was holding the gun in his hand? :rofl:
Post by: aieahound on December 01, 2021, 10:27:21 PM
“I never pressed the trigger……I just touched it.”
If it was a Smith and Wesson anyway. (Dig at Stangz and his Ruger love) :shaka:
On their budget maybe it was an imported Colt knock off and did shoot by itself. :rofl:
Seriously though. Somebody F’d up.
Post by: hvybarrels on December 01, 2021, 11:26:48 PM
The irony is that all the negativity that Hollywood spewed about the NRA and guns
I remember in the last mag ban hearing when the Hollywood lobbyist came in, voiced industry support the measure, and got his little exemption after greasing some palms earlier in the day. It made me feel kind of sick.
Post by: macsak on December 02, 2021, 06:12:01 AM
I remember in the last mag ban hearing when the Hollywood lobbyist came in, voiced industry support the measure, and got his little exemption after greasing some palms earlier in the day. It made me feel kind of sick.
that lobbyist, iirc his name is bruce coppa, is one of the most influencial lobbyists in the state
he works for the carpenter's union and several more
i'd bet that much of the time he doesn't even need to grease palms, it's more of a "i give the nod and you will be taken care of in the future"...
Post by: QUIETShooter on December 02, 2021, 06:28:40 AM
Baldwin was holding the gun.
The gun fired, and people in the direction of where he pointed the gun were struck.
I submit that somebody pulled that trigger. Was he saying someone else pulled the trigger as he was holding the gun in his hand? :rofl:
Doesn't surprise me he said that, whether it was on his own or his lawyer told him to say it. Already tells you what a dirtbag he is.
Seems like his lawyer is a dirtbag also.
Btw, on the record I never liked Alec Baldwin but that's irrelevant. But still.....
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on December 02, 2021, 09:55:17 AM
Doesn't surprise me he said that, whether it was on his own or his lawyer told him to say it. Already tells you what a dirtbag he is.
Seems like his lawyer is a dirtbag also.
Btw, on the record I never liked Alec Baldwin but that's irrelevant. But still.....
I didn't have an opinion of him other than his work on film until he started telling us all how to think regarding political issues. That's when he moved to my "Rich Hollywood Hypocrite" list.
Ever since then, I only expected him to say stupid crap in public. So far, he's not disappointed! :geekdanc:
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 02, 2021, 11:07:30 AM
I didn't have an opinion of him other than his work on film until he started telling us all how to think regarding political issues. That's when he moved to my "Rich Hollywood Hypocrite" list.
And the political hypocrite list. Dr. Biden was reading a book to kids with no mask on, and some kid yelled STFU.
The other Biden in a store with a mask required sign and no mask on. The best part was the pic taken was in view of him maskless and the mask required signage.
Post by: Inspector on December 02, 2021, 12:38:23 PM
And the political hypocrite list. Dr. Biden was reading a book to kids with no mask on, and some kid yelled STFU.Can’t say if this is UN modified or not….
https://twitter.com/3sidedstory/status/1465441995443240968?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1465446628932788229%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=
Post by: DocMercy on December 02, 2021, 01:00:59 PM
"I never pressed the trigger". Sounds like his lawyer told him what to say.
If he states this in a civil trial, and the statement is proven to be false, it does not matter what a lawyer tells him to say. It will be perjury, and that will lead to jail time. The big question will be, can the gubmint or expert witness prove that the gun could not fire without a trigger pull?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/lawyer-backs-up-baldwin-s-assertion-he-didn-t-pull-trigger/ar-AARogzx (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/lawyer-backs-up-baldwin-s-assertion-he-didn-t-pull-trigger/ar-AARogzx)
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 02, 2021, 01:29:29 PM
If he states this in a civil trial, and the statement is proven to be false, it does not matter what a lawyer tells him to say. It will be perjury, and that will lead to jail time. The big question will be, can the gubmint or expert witness prove that the gun could not fire without a trigger pull?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/lawyer-backs-up-baldwin-s-assertion-he-didn-t-pull-trigger/ar-AARogzx (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/lawyer-backs-up-baldwin-s-assertion-he-didn-t-pull-trigger/ar-AARogzx)
Unless there is video of the incident, it would be impossible to prove other wise. So the fact that he's making this statement, tells me there is no video and he's just trying to cover his a$$.
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 02, 2021, 01:30:21 PM
At a minimum Alec Baldwin and the others involved should be charged with negligent homicide and sentenced to prison. It's your responsibility to check the weapon when you accept it.
I was watching a Scared Straight episode and 1 guy got 5 years in jail because he fell asleep at the wheel and killed someone. I don't remember what state this was in, but point is he was convicted.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on December 02, 2021, 03:49:15 PM
Unless there is video of the incident, it would be impossible to prove other wise. So the fact that he's making this statement, tells me there is no video and he's just trying to cover his a$$.
Unless a lab can recreate the "gun just went off without anyone causing it" theory, the results (gun fired) prove the requisite action occurred (someone pulled the trigger).
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on December 02, 2021, 03:51:14 PM
At a minimum Alec Baldwin and the others involved should be charged with negligent homicide and sentenced to prison. It's your responsibility to check the weapon when you accept it.
You just want to skip the trial and go straight from "charged" to "sentenced to prison?"
Who taught you about due process and the Constitution? You've already convicted them without knowing all the facts.
Post by: Heavies on December 02, 2021, 06:41:32 PM
Unless there is video of the incident, it would be impossible to prove other wise. So the fact that he's making this statement, tells me there is no video and he's just trying to cover his a$$.
Not being a Baldwin supporter, just devils advocate.
Being this was a western, they are probably using single action army revolvers. If he cocked the hammer part way and his thumb slipped, the gun can and will go off without a trigger pull. He could be technically telling the truth.
This still is no excuse, IMO, for unsafe gun handling.
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 02, 2021, 06:47:16 PM
Not being a Baldwin supporter, just devils advocate.Good to know. Which would mean he still caused the pistol to fire. Ban all revolvers in westerns. Cowboys must use semi auto or full. Like in time cop.
Being this was a western, they are probably using single action army revolvers. If he cocked the hammer part way and his thumb slipped, the gun can and will go off without a trigger pull. He could be technically telling the truth.
This still is no excuse, IMO, for unsafe gun handling.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: stangzilla on December 03, 2021, 07:12:43 AM
“I never pressed the trigger……I just touched it.”
If it was a Smith and Wesson anyway. (Dig at Stangz and his Ruger love) :shaka:
:shaka:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/2888/33947970871_7a7a8bb93f_b.jpg)
Post by: drck1000 on December 03, 2021, 07:58:09 AM
We can have a trial and if the facts show that he did not check the weapon or did not control the muzzle (it does not matter if he pulled the trigger or not).That is negligence. We do need to determine the level of negligence and if it was negligence or murder. We need a trial to evaluate the facts, prosecute the charge and determine sentencing.It's been a long and stressful week. But I read a "death" in between those two words on a quick read through that response. :o
:rofl:
Post by: stangzilla on December 03, 2021, 08:08:29 AM
I wonder if the revolver has a transfer bar safety. bc if it does, you would need to pull the trigger for it to fire. dropping the hammer, it won't fire if it has the transfer bar safety
Post by: stangzilla on December 03, 2021, 08:12:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd4IFyW9uVA
Post by: Inspector on December 03, 2021, 08:31:48 AM
[SNIP]Ruger was an early adopter of safety in the single action revolvers they made. They converted the early single actions to a safer action free of charge. While some said it ruined the feel of the trigger, it could be made to feel the same as before the modification. If I purchased a Ruger single action revolver from the early period I would prefer the action was modified to the safer action. I am sure you know this Ruger history better than I do.
I wonder if the revolver has a transfer bar safety. bc if it does, you would need to pull the trigger for it to fire. dropping the hammer, it won't fire if it has the transfer bar safety
My understanding of the Colt SAA revolvers is that they cannot be modified to a safer action. I could be wrong, but that is my understanding. So it should always be carried with 5 in the cylinder and the hammer down on the empty cylinder. Once you physically start to cock it the cylinder turns to a loaded chamber. So in other words, it should never be cocked (even half cocked) unless you intend for it to be fired.
Most or all other SAA clones and modern SA revolvers are all made with the transfer bar safety action. While modern SA revolvers are safe from accidental discharge, SA revolvers are known for having nice crisp triggers that don’t require a lot of pressure to let off the hammer. Even modern double action revolvers should be carried with the hammer down until you are ready to fire them. JMHO
If you are not familiar as to how SA revolvers work, you need to learn before you own one.
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 03, 2021, 08:49:02 AM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on December 07, 2021, 07:38:25 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on December 07, 2021, 07:39:12 PM
https://youtu.be/nx9VA8DqbpM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on December 08, 2021, 06:10:54 PM
Post by: aieahound on December 13, 2021, 06:46:46 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on December 14, 2021, 07:23:27 AM
Almost all of them are saying he is lying. One so far said he is full of shit.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on December 14, 2021, 02:42:03 PM
What?
His gun made noise and created recoil/kickback IN HIS HAND. At the same time, someone drops to the floor.
How clueless can you be? He thought she fainted? Really?
It your story, and you can tell it however you want. Just don't expect people of average intelligence to believe what you're shoveling.
Post by: QUIETShooter on December 14, 2021, 02:54:41 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on December 14, 2021, 02:58:55 PM
Baldwin also said he didn't know he shot anyone for almost an hour after.Well acording to people like him, guns are why active shooters happen. They fire themsleves and target all by themselves.
What?
His gun made noise and created recoil/kickback IN HIS HAND. At the same time, someone drops to the floor.
How clueless can you be? He thought she fainted? Really?
It your story, and you can tell it however you want. Just don't expect people of average intelligence to believe what you're shoveling.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Inspector on December 19, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
https://thegreggjarrett.com/search-warrant-issued-for-alec-bladwins-iphone/
Post by: drck1000 on December 19, 2021, 12:09:07 PM
Well acording to people like him, guns are why active shooters happen. They fire themsleves and target all by themselves.Well, they OBVIOUSLY have a mind of their own. . . - Alec the Victim Baldwin
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on December 19, 2021, 02:51:34 PM
Search Warrant Issued for Alec Bladwin’s iPhone
https://thegreggjarrett.com/search-warrant-issued-for-alec-bladwins-iphone/
Baldwin's lawyers will say "The iPhone may have been the one who pulled the trigger. Police have issued a warrant supporting this theory of events."
Post by: Inspector on December 19, 2021, 03:48:10 PM
Baldwin's lawyers will say "The iPhone may have been the one who pulled the trigger. Police have issued a warrant supporting this theory of events."Well, Siri is real to some people so maybe she could have pulled the trigger? :rofl:
Post by: Inspector on December 30, 2021, 02:10:11 AM
https://www.ammoland.com/2021/12/after-potter-verdict-should-alec-baldwin-be-worried/?ct=t(RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN)
Post by: QUIETShooter on December 30, 2021, 08:17:03 AM
I'm worried that if it goes to trial, it will become a "celebrity circus" like the OJ trial. Even the judge seemed to enjoy the instant celebrity.
Kim Potter is like one of us. Just an ordinary citizen. Alec Baldwin is considered a god in some circles, especially amongst the crowd that dwells in "another" sewer known as Hollywood.
And it does seem that trial outcomes falls in line with what would satisfy the masses lately, lest we have another LA riot scenario and the rooftop Koreans have to man their posts again.....
Post by: ren on December 30, 2021, 09:20:19 AM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on January 02, 2022, 09:44:13 PM
After Potter Verdict, Should Alec Baldwin Be Worried?
https://www.ammoland.com/2021/12/after-potter-verdict-should-alec-baldwin-be-worried/?ct=t(RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN)
I would say not.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 03, 2022, 04:28:24 AM
I would say not.
Great. If anyone asks me my opinion, I should just say, "No," and the supporting fact would be, "Someone on a gun forum said so, too."
:crazy: :wacko: :geekdanc:
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 03, 2022, 07:54:30 AM
regardless of the legal outcome, Alec Baldwin did kill someone
Roger that. No if's, ands, or buts.
Post by: groveler on January 03, 2022, 10:09:28 AM
regardless of the legal outcome, Alec Baldwin did kill someoneIs it not true, that here in Hawaii, regardless of the circumstance, that someone who kills somebody
gets arrested? So a Judge gets to sort the law out and not a cop?
One of the few Hawaii practices I agree with. I'm not really big on letting cops interpret the law
as they see fit. Alec should have been arrested and hauled before a judge.
:popcorn:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 03, 2022, 11:46:06 AM
Is it not true, that here in Hawaii, regardless of the circumstance, that someone who kills somebodyI'm not sure "arrested" is accurate. I think (from reading about many of those cases) the Cops will detain you for questioning. If the facts appear to support a valid justification such as self defense, and the prosecutor at that time doesn't intend to file charges, you will most likely be released without charges.
gets arrested? So a Judge gets to sort the law out and not a cop?
One of the few Hawaii practices I agree with. I'm not really big on letting cops interpret the law
as they see fit. Alec should have been arrested and hauled before a judge.
:popcorn:
But, if the Cops on the scene have a reasonable suspicion that what you did was not justified -- that you did break the law -- then they will arrest you. When you're arraigned, they may or may not drop the charges, continue incarceration or release you on bail.
Baldwin would be able to post any amount of bail the judge might require, so I doubt the investigators will want to file charges until 100% of available facts are gathered. In the meantime, he's walking around just as freely as he would be on bail.
If, and when, they finally arrest him, it'll be interesting to see how severe the charges are. It'll probably be a manslaughter charge due to negligence or something similar.
I just hope the investigators learned what not to do from the Simpson case. OJ should have never been found Not Guilty, but the police created enough reasonable doubt for the jury to acquit. The civil trial was not so forgiving. Ask yourself, how can one trial reach one verdict, and the other one that followed find him "responsible for the deaths?" Obviously, the same evidence was viewed differently by the people making the judgement.
Anyway, Baldwin pretty much gave the prosecutors the statement they needed to convict. In his TV performance -- um, interview -- he said that nobody but the armorer for firearm props was allowed to give firearms to the actors on set before a rehearsal or take, so they can personally check the weapons to be sure they are safe. If he knows that, then why did he accept the gun from someone other than the armorer? Why didn't he say to the director, "Get the armorer over here to check this gun so I know it's safe?
BALDWIN broke protocol when he accepted the firearm from the wrong person. That's negligence at the very least. Some might say gross negligence, since we are talking about lethal weapons which he's handled on numerous other projects.
Blame everyone but yourself? Not when you were the person who fired the thing.
Post by: groveler on January 03, 2022, 12:07:54 PM
I'm not sure "arrested" is accurate. I think (from reading about many of those cases) the Cops will detain you for questioning. If the facts appear to support a valid justification such as self defense, and the prosecutor at that time doesn't intend to file charges, you will most likely be released without charges."I'm not sure "arrested" is accurate. I think (from reading about many of those cases) the Cops will detain you for questioning"
But, if the Cops on the scene have a reasonable suspicion that what you did was not justified -- that you did break the law -- then they will arrest you. When you're arraigned, they may or may not drop the charges, continue incarceration or release you on bail.
Baldwin would be able to post any amount of bail the judge might require, so I doubt the investigators will want to file charges until 100% of available facts are gathered. In the meantime, he's walking around just as freely as he would be on bail.
If, and when, they finally arrest him, it'll be interesting to see how severe the charges are. It'll probably be a manslaughter charge due to negligence or something similar.
I just hope the investigators learned what not to do from the Simpson case. OJ should have never been found Not Guilty, but the police created enough reasonable doubt for the jury to acquit. The civil trial was not so forgiving. Ask yourself, how can one trial reach one verdict, and the other one that followed find him "responsible for the deaths?" Obviously, the same evidence was viewed differently by the people making the judgement.
Anyway, Baldwin pretty much gave the prosecutors the statement they needed to convict. In his TV performance -- um, interview -- he said that nobody but the armorer for firearm props was allowed to give firearms to the actors on set before a rehearsal or take, so they can personally check the weapons to be sure they are safe. If he knows that, then why did he accept the gun from someone other than the armorer? Why didn't he say to the director, "Get the armorer over here to check this gun so I know it's safe?
BALDWIN broke protocol when he accepted the firearm from the wrong person. That's negligence at the very least. Some might say gross negligence, since we are talking about lethal weapons which he's handled on numerous other projects.
Blame everyone but yourself? Not when you were the person who fired the thing.
I'm probably nit pik-ing here but any time you are handcuffed and detained, I'd call that an arrest.
Charges are a different issue, but that is what an arraignment is for.
The first words out of my mouth would be;
Am I being detained?
Am I free to go?
If I'm being detained and I'm not free to go, it is request a lawyer time.
and quit talking.
That is an arrest of your freedom to go about your business.
Alec caused a death and that has to be answered.
Purposeful, poor judgement, or accidentally.
The explanation must be a matter of public record.
Not a "Wink, wink, Nod, nod".
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 03, 2022, 12:22:50 PM
Is it not true, that here in Hawaii, regardless of the circumstance, that someone who kills somebody
gets arrested? So a Judge gets to sort the law out and not a cop?
One of the few Hawaii practices I agree with. I'm not really big on letting cops interpret the law
as they see fit. Alec should have been arrested and hauled before a judge.
:popcorn:
Spoke a while ago to a few HPD friends and their SOP is to detain someone. And if charges are not filed by the time the 2 days is up, then they will release u pending further investigation. If you're lucky, you only sit in jail for less than a day and the prosecutor declines to file any charges. And if you're even luckier, HPD at scene doesn't follow SOP and you don't get arrested at all.
Post by: Heavies on January 03, 2022, 12:26:47 PM
Great. If anyone asks me my opinion, I should just say, "No," and the supporting fact would be, "Someone on a gun forum said so, too."
:crazy: :wacko: :geekdanc:
Why you going to make a reply like that? Don’t troll
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 03, 2022, 12:31:07 PM
"I'm not sure "arrested" is accurate. I think (from reading about many of those cases) the Cops will detain you for questioning"
I'm probably nit pik-ing here but any time you are handcuffed and detained, I'd call that an arrest.
Charges are a different issue, but that is what an arraignment is for.
The first words out of my mouth would be;
Am I being detained?
Am I free to go?
If I'm being detained and I'm not free to go, it is request a lawyer time.
and quit talking.
That is an arrest of your freedom to go about your business.
Alec caused a death and that has to be answered.
Purposeful, poor judgement, or accidentally.
The explanation must be a matter of public record.
Not a "Wink, wink, Nod, nod".
I wouldn't go with the annoying "Am I being detained, or am I free to go?" tirade. I'd just tell them I'm willing to cooperate and answer all of their questions, but I'd like to consult my attorney and have them present before I say anything.
If you already gave them a vague statement, like "This stranger threatened me with that knife, and I shot him in self defense," that's all you need to say at the scene. Save the details for when your lawyer gets with you.
If you just shot someone, I don't think saying "Am I being detained?" is a very intelligent question for you to ask! :rofl:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 03, 2022, 12:42:21 PM
Why you going to make a reply like that? Don’t troll
Sorry.
Since you asked "why?" ... I was responding that way, because he's been commenting on many threads similarly. His reply is as if he was answering a poll question -- simply stating a "for or against" opinion with no context or explanation.
I was trying to make the point that without more to the comment, the post was basically meaningless. It added nothing to the discussion. It's nice that he has an opinion, but just posting, "I would say not," doesn't say much at all.
I apologize that it was more trollish than it should have been.
Post by: Heavies on January 03, 2022, 12:48:41 PM
Sorry.
Since you asked "why?" ... I was responding that way, because he's been commenting on many threads similarly. His reply is as if he was answering a poll question -- simply stating a "for or against" opinion with no context or explanation.
I was trying to make the point that without more to the comment, the post was basically meaningless. It added nothing to the discussion. It's nice that he has an opinion, but just posting, "I would say not," doesn't say much at all.
I apologize that it was more trollish than it should have been.
A question was asked. It was answered simply. Many here do this same thing.
I’ve already had to can a person for trolling other members, even when they don’t respond to that person. I’d be a hypocrite if I didn’t hold everyone to that same standard.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 03, 2022, 12:53:13 PM
A question was asked. It was answered simply. Many here do this same thing.
I’ve already had to can a person for trolling other members, even when they don’t respond to that person. I’d be a hypocrite if I didn’t hold everyone to that same standard.
Understood.
I appreciate the fair warning.
Post by: groveler on January 03, 2022, 02:20:43 PM
I wouldn't go with the annoying "Am I being detained, or am I free to go?" tirade. I'd just tell them I'm willing to cooperate and answer all of their questions, but I'd like to consult my attorney and have them present before I say anything.I know that is an annoying "tirade". But when you are in trouble never lie or talk to cops other than in irritating "Legalese".
If you already gave them a vague statement, like "This stranger threatened me with that knife, and I shot him in self defense," that's all you need to say at the scene. Save the details for when your lawyer gets with you.
If you just shot someone, I don't think saying "Am I being detained?" is a very intelligent question for you to ask! :rofl:
Keep in mind you are innocent until proven guilty.
Their job is to enforce the law, not befriend you.
They befriended Alec. I don't think you or I would have received the same "gentle" treatment.
Post by: Inspector on January 03, 2022, 02:41:11 PM
I want to cooperate and I will cooperate with the police. But not until I speak to an attorney.
Then shut up and don’t say another word.
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 20, 2022, 12:00:28 PM
OSHA sites violations by the production, not the armorer.
Post by: ren on August 13, 2022, 02:32:19 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/fbi-forensic-report-concludes-alec-baldwin-pulled-trigger-rust-set (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/fbi-forensic-report-concludes-alec-baldwin-pulled-trigger-rust-set)
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 13, 2022, 02:42:47 PM
{sarcasm} (For those who immediately said "Whut?!?")
Post by: groveler on August 14, 2022, 09:02:07 PM
" don't aim at anything you don't want to destroy"
Where is all the Hollywood magic?
Man should be charged with manslaughter.
You or I would be.
Let the Widower carry out the sentence.
Run motherfucker!
:love:
.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 19, 2023, 11:29:59 AM
with two counts of involuntary manslaughter in the shooting death of
cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of the movie Rust on
October 21, 2021.
Quote
"If any one of these three people—Alec Baldwin, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, or
David Halls—had done their job, Halyna Hutchins would be alive today. It's
that simple."
Quote
Assistant director David Halls, who told Baldwin the gun was not loaded, agreed
to plead guilty to negligent use of a deadly weapon.
https://www.iheart.com/content/2023-01-19-alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set/?mid=1016859&rid=98839342&sc=email&pname=newsletter&cid=NATIONAL&keyid=National%20iHeart%20Daily%20NewsTalk&campid=headline2_readmore
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 19, 2023, 11:44:33 AM
This is much easier to do with a revolver.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 19, 2023, 12:31:47 PM
I wonder what the filming SOP is for semi auto firearms? Like will each actor load their own mags with blanks to insure that only a blank is loaded? Since they are the ones who pull the trigger and can be held liable if a real round is loaded.
This is much easier to do with a revolver.
Most reputable gunsmiths on set will have a system to keep all arms and ammo locked up to prevent tampering/accidents.
In the case of ammo, almost all will prohibit live ammo anywhere near the set to avoid the slightest possibility of a live round winding up where it shouldn't.
Furthermore, it's common knowledge that a blank round can injure or kill if it's fired in the right spot on a person at the right (close) range. Blanks use a wadding to keep the load in the cartridge, and that wadding becomes a projectile. Knowing this, many scenes are shot in segments that remove people from in front of the firearm when it's fired out of an abundance of caution.
You can do everything right, and still have an accident. By incorporating safety rules, like never point a gun at anyone/anything you don't intend to destroy, you can avoid catastrophic outcomes when accidents occur.
The people running the production of Rust were careless, and someone died. There doesn't have to be an SOP to prevent this from happening. Just common sense gun safety rules.
Post by: randay on January 19, 2023, 01:11:09 PM
Post by: ren on January 19, 2023, 05:35:40 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 19, 2023, 07:31:03 PM
I don't think he should be criminally charged. He was supposedlly handed a gun with blank ammo. He was not. If you went to get your car brakes fixed, paid for the service, drove off and failed to stop at an intersection and accidentally killed someone - who's fault is that?
At least 3 people handled the gun before it was fired. No way to determine who actually loaded the live round.
Saw a report that there were loose live rounds found in various areas of the set, Live rounds were found among blanks in the same box, and the gun belts Alec and another actor wore had at least one live round in the ammo loops. It's conceivable Alec could have swapped a blank with a live round intending to shoot the deceased. Apparently he had a possible motive.
The issue is less about who handed him the gun and more about how he was negligent for not verifying the gun was loaded as expected. The person who pulls the trigger of a loaded weapon is the one responsible, because they are the one holding a deadly weapon -- nobody else.
It's criminal. Gun safety is the responsibility of the person using it. These were not props. These were functional firearms.
As Colion Noir said, if Baldwin used a fraction of the time he spent demonizing guns learning about and practicing gun safety in real life, he would not be in this situation. Never point a firearm at anyone or anything you don't intend to destroy. Whether he loaded the live round or not, this one safety rule would have saved one's life and another's wound.
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 19, 2023, 07:40:04 PM
The people running the production of Rust were careless, and someone died.
Alec is one of those people. No ifs, ands, or buts. He shares the responsibility.
Oh yeah. But I neva pull the trigger. You're full of shiite Alec.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 20, 2023, 01:12:48 AM
Alec is one of those people. No ifs, ands, or buts. He shares the responsibility.
Oh yeah. But I neva pull the trigger. You're full of shiite Alec.
I think there's no debate he was mostly responsible as the person who pointed the gun without verifying it was safe to do so.
He can claim all day long that the gun fired without the trigger being pulled, but that is immaterial. He had a duty to use the gun in a safe manner. The outcome proves he did not.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 20, 2023, 11:17:16 AM
What he said in that same segment that's actually more important was, "I would never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger."
He obviously knows that pointing a gun at someone is a no-no. Whether or not he then pulls the trigger or it "just goes off" is not the issue. He was negligent for where he pointed the pistol.
Period.
https://youtu.be/u2Dt4y0ry6E
https://youtu.be/C-NAk5ppolk
Post by: drck1000 on January 20, 2023, 11:25:35 AM
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 20, 2023, 11:56:36 AM
As a producer, I think one would know the protocols of firearm safety on your set. The armorer was not present and the one who stated the gun was "cold" (meaning safe) was not a qualified person to declare that.
I believe arrogance and self-righteousness played a factor. Alec has a history of being arrogant and displaying a short and hot temper.
He stated in the interview with that Stephanopoulos guy that he didn't pull the trigger and that he would never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger.
He claiming he didn't pull the trigger is laughable. That he would point a gun at someone and think as long as you don't pull the trigger it's ok shows his ignorance or arrogance toward gun safety.
I shared this on this forum before. Long ago my BIL asked to see my SW29. My wife and sister (his wife) were present. After checking that the gun was unloaded, I handed the revolver to him. He pointed the gun at his wife's head. His finger was on the trigger.
We all immediately chastised him. If looks could kill, I would be in jail for murder. He said that he didn't pull the trigger, and that we all saw that I had safety checked the gun. He said we were all acting irrationally.
I have never showed him any guns since then. When he brings up the subject I ignore him. He gets mad. I don't care. Fuck him.
If he wants to be a part of the 2a community he will do it on his own. I want no part of it.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 20, 2023, 12:50:47 PM
Baldwin's attorney stated that Alec relied on professionals on the set to ensure the gun was unloaded. But Alec was not only an actor on the set, he was the producer also.How many movies and shows has Baldwin appeared in where he handled guns? Quite a few if memory serves.
As a producer, I think one would know the protocols of firearm safety on your set. The armorer was not present and the one who stated the gun was "cold" (meaning safe) was not a qualified person to declare that.
[snip]
Given that, he's experienced in what other sets and armorers do to keep the guns safe for the users. He's been an actor for decades. He has to know that the people in charge need to take their prop guns and ammo more seriously than other props.
He can't say "I relied on professionals to keep us safe," and have that be the end of the discussion. The people responsible for everyone's safety -- the producers and directors -- have a duty to make sure everyone knows the rules and follows them. A gunsmith who manages the props and locks them up when not in use isn't going to be running onto set before every take to verify a gun is safe for that scene.
One big question is why someone OTHER THAN THE GUNSMITH handed Baldwin that firearm. That alone shows Baldwin's assertion that his professionals would keep them safe lacked any control over the guns. I see it as a chain of custody issue. Can't blame the gunsmith if someone else handed him the gun, can you?
I don't think Baldwin has fully explained what happened, and I believe he lied about not pulling the trigger in order to dodge responsibility. He needs to be charged criminally, or else this is bound to happen again. If not with him, with the next production that sees minor consequences should someone get killed by a negligent actor holding a firearm.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 20, 2023, 01:20:15 PM
Post by: ren on January 20, 2023, 05:30:25 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on January 20, 2023, 06:46:51 PM
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/NenNfl6E92iX9vSRRBvUAC9a56-mrhFdiu0PkaQqo8M/rs:fit:498:239:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWRp/YTEudGVub3IuY29t/L2ltYWdlcy9kNzIx/MDg1NjkyYTM1ZDI0/ZTJkZjA5MzZlYzMx/Y2ViYy90ZW5vci5n/aWY_aXRlbWlkPTc4/NzkwNzI.gif)
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 21, 2023, 01:02:38 PM
All he had to do was act like someone with a functional conscience for a few months and they probably would have let him skate,
When you're a long time Hollyweird celeb, you can commit murder in front of witnesses and skate.
Alec Baldwin's criminal charges for fatal
'Rust' shooting to be dropped: lawyers
Quote
Criminal charges against Alec Baldwin are expected to be dropped in the October 2021https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-criminal-charges-fatal-rust-shooting-dropped-lawyers
fatal shooting of "Rust" cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, the actor's lawyers told Fox
News Digital.
"We are pleased with the decision to dismiss the case against Alec Baldwin and encourage
a proper investigation into the facts and circumstances of this tragic incident," attorneys
Luke Nikas and Alex Spiro said in a statement.
The Santa Fe District Attorney's Office didn't immediately respond to Fox News Digital's
request for comment.
Baldwin, 64, will see the two counts of involuntary manslaughter against him dropped,
his lawyers said.
I'm not surprised, just disappointed.
Post by: ren on April 21, 2023, 01:08:26 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on April 21, 2023, 01:40:04 PM
Sad day for justice for the victims.
Something about new evidence that the gun was altered to fire without pressing the trigger? I thought the gun was examined already. WTF?????
Post by: RSN172 on April 21, 2023, 04:56:35 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 21, 2023, 07:37:28 PM
Why do they even have real firearms on the set in the first place? With numerous airsoft clones available, there is no reason to use a real firearm as a prop gun.
They have realistic clones of Old West revolvers?
Post by: RSN172 on April 22, 2023, 06:52:36 AM
They have realistic clones of Old West revolvers?Ok. Probably not but a prop gun should be modified so it cannot shoot live ammo. In any case, if these gun hating Hollywood types would take the time to learn about guns, this would have never happened.
Post by: QUIETShooter on April 22, 2023, 07:16:33 AM
He can't just skate away with this.
He was the producer. He was more than just an actor that just does his lines, does what they say and is done with it.
A producer is accountable for everything that happens on the set.
Post by: groveler on April 22, 2023, 09:16:32 AM
#1 All guns are loaded
#2 Keep your finger off the trigger
# 3 Never aim at anything you don't want to destroy
:geekdanc:
Post by: RSN172 on April 22, 2023, 10:00:04 AM
three rules,
#1 All guns are loaded
#2 Keep your finger off the trigger
# 3 Never aim at anything you don't want to destroy
:geekdanc:
Anti 2A idiots believe:
1. Gun is unloaded unless you loaded it.
2. Your finger should be on the trigger when holding the gun.
3. It is ok to point it at anything as long as you don’t pull the trigger.
Post by: rpoL98 on April 22, 2023, 10:49:30 AM
just amazing that he didn't get charged with negligent manslaughter. just wow. ???
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 23, 2023, 02:05:46 PM
I wonder if they're still going after that amateur movie-set armorer, whatever her name is.
just amazing that he didn't get charged with negligent manslaughter. just wow. ???
There is an update:
'Rust' Armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed Facing New Charge
Quote
Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the armorer of the film Rust, was hit with an additional chargehttps://www.iheart.com/content/2023-06-23-rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-facing-new-charge/?mid=1106775&rid=98839342&sc=email&pname=newsletter&cid=NATIONAL&keyid=National%20iHeart%20Daily%20NewsTalk&campid=headline3_readmore
of tampering with evidence. In an amended complaint, prosecutors said that Reed
transferred narcotics to another person "with the intent to prevent the apprehension,
prosecution, or conviction of herself."
...
Prosecutors allege that Reed was hungover when she inadvertently loaded the gun
used by Alec Baldwin with live ammunition. Baldwin was practicing a cross-draw inside
a church when the revolver fired, with a bullet striking Hutchins and the film's director
Joel Souza.
Baldwin was also charged with involuntary manslaughter, but prosecutors dropped
those charges against him. However, officials have not ruled out refiling the charges
as the investigation into the on-set shooting continues.
I assume the statute of limitations is not a concern. They are approaching 2 years since the death. At some point, the lesser charges below murder and manslaughter will not be viable options as long as the individual hasn't left the state.
When a person under investigation leaves the state, the clock is reset and restarts when they re-enter the state (say, due to extradition). So, Baldwin, by leaving the jurisdiction, isn't doing himself any good related to time limitations if he's eventually charged.
Post by: ren on June 23, 2023, 02:15:31 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 23, 2023, 02:28:26 PM
I don't know how they can continue filming this movie without any conscious. Oh yeah its Hollywood. Its all about "me" in this case Baldwin
To pay the actors and investors, they need to produce a final movie. Otherwise, the investment money used to produce it would have been for nothing.
i'm not as worried about actors like Baldwin with his fortune, but the lesser known actors in the movie will have no income from their efforts other than SAG wages. Should all the investors be out their capital because of Baldwin?
Many movies were released after tragic deaths during filming. The Crow comes to mind. Lee died in 1993, and the movie was released in 1994. It cost $23M to make and grossed $50,6M worldwide -- $11M the first weekend.
Post by: groveler on June 23, 2023, 09:15:59 PM
To pay the actors and investors, they need to produce a final movie. Otherwise, the investment money used to produce it would have been for nothing.Don't forget Twilight zone.
i'm not as worried about actors like Baldwin with his fortune, but the lesser known actors in the movie will have no income from their efforts other than SAG wages. Should all the investors be out their capital because of Baldwin?
Many movies were released after tragic deaths during filming. The Crow comes to mind. Lee died in 1993, and the movie was released in 1994. It cost $23M to make and grossed $50,6M worldwide -- $11M the first weekend.
Helicopter crashed on three people.
One was the one of the stars. Vic Morrow.
Guns weren't used buy fireworks were.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on June 23, 2023, 09:24:13 PM
Don't forget Twilight zone.Vic Morrow was Jennifer Jason Leigh's father.
Helicopter crashed on three people.
One was the one of the stars. Vic Morrow.
Guns weren't used buy fireworks were.
Post by: macsak on September 10, 2023, 11:09:05 AM
Post by: ren on September 10, 2023, 12:31:30 PM
Post by: macsak on November 22, 2023, 12:40:39 PM
Post by: macsak on January 19, 2024, 12:31:49 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 19, 2024, 01:24:18 PM
Hope something comes out this time.
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 19, 2024, 07:05:16 PM
I'm glad they're not letting this go!Community service.
Hope something comes out this time.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 19, 2024, 09:12:11 PM
So, if the prosecution introduces a replica of the gun as evidence in the trial, how credible is it?
It is brought up at 1:18 of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jicqWnOJamo
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on January 19, 2024, 09:58:02 PM
The FBI: They for real or what? They broke the gun while they were testing it.
So, if the prosecution introduces a replica of the gun as evidence in the trial, how credible is it?
It is brought up at 1:18 of the video.
If the prosecution team and the judge know their jobs, the gun won't be the center of the trial evidence.
Unfortunately, guns have been demonized so often as evil killers on their own, people who know nothing about guns and gun safety will believe the gun is guilty -- not the person holding it. Scary and sad, but too likely.
The center of the trial should be the fact that Baldwin was holding the gun when it fired and killed a person.
Responsibility rests with the person in control of the weapon at the time.
Did he check if it was loaded?
If he saw it was loaded, did he check that all the rounds were the same (blanks)?
Did he accept the gun from someone other than the one person who's supposed to control the firearms? I understand someone on the set other than the armorer gave it to him. He could have asked the armorer to come check the firearm before accepting it. As a producer and major actor, he's fully aware of the procedures sets use to keep people safe.
He knew they were using real, functioning firearms as props. He knew the crew was taking shots for fun with live ammo on their breaks.
He knew never to put your finger on the trigger when pointing a gun at someone. That's according to his own words. So, why did he even point the gun at anyone in the first place -- regardless of what his trigger finger was doing?
Anyone with basic firearm training knows, if you break one safety rule, the others prevent injury. He broke 3 but he wants to argue he only broke 2 of them:
1. Never point the muzzle at anything (or anyone) you don't intend to destroy. -- stipulated he pointed it toward the camera and crew (obvious based on the outcome)
2. Always treat all guns as if they are loaded. -- stipulated he thought they were loaded with blanks, yet still treated it unsafely
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot -- denies having his finger on the trigger
Sorry, but, unless the gun was able to fire from him just holding it, he's still guilty by virtue of failing to adhere to other rules.
At a minimum, it's negligent homicide.
Post by: macsak on February 23, 2024, 09:01:15 PM
Post by: macsak on March 04, 2024, 12:14:35 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 04, 2024, 12:26:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_jBPWRJ_u4
"New" armorer who didn't want to tell the guy with pull "no". This is speculation, but I hope a more veteran armorer would tell him what's what.
I saw the behind the scenes of the making of DOOM. The armor did a show of what even a blank to the face can do. He used a syrofoam head to show the damage that it can do. He was stressing that even though these are blanks, they can still seriously injure someone. So it's not a toy.
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 04, 2024, 12:30:33 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 04, 2024, 01:06:58 PM
I hope Alec Baldwin gets convicted and goes to prison.
What ever happened to the guy who shot Jason Scott Lee (Bruce Lee's son)?
Post by: ren on March 04, 2024, 01:26:37 PM
What ever happened to the guy who shot Jason Scott Lee (Bruce Lee's son)?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2021/10/22/alec-baldwin-prop-gun-shooting-surfaces-memories-brandon-lee-death/6132318001/
After Lee's death on March 31, 1993, little information was released. It was believed that a small explosive charge used to stimulate gunfire on the set of "The Crow" in Wilmington, N.C., led to Lee's death.
During filming, actor Michael Massee shot a revolver at Lee's character as he walks into the room. Lee collapsed backward, and when he didn't stand up, the crew thought he was still acting. Lee was rushed to the hospital, and after six hours of emergency surgery, he was pronounced dead.
It was later revealed through the autopsy that Lee's death was the result of a .44-caliber bullet discovered near Lee's spine. That drew criticism of the movie set's safety. While the gun contained blank ammunition, a lethal obstruction had been lodged in the barrel during the filming of another scene weeks before.
Lee's mother, Linda Lee Cadwell, sued for negligence four months after her son's death. Cadwell alleged that "crew members ran out of dummy bullets and improperly manufactured their own from live ammunition. During a test firing of the dummy ammunition, a bullet tip wound up in the barrel of the handgun."
District Attorney Jerry Spivey announced after an investigation in April 1993 that no criminal charges would be filed and that there was no evidence of criminal wrongdoing despite the movie crew's negligence.
Post by: macsak on March 04, 2024, 01:30:33 PM
What ever happened to the guy who shot Jason Scott Lee (Bruce Lee's son)?
Post by: QUIETShooter on March 04, 2024, 02:25:08 PM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2021/10/22/alec-baldwin-prop-gun-shooting-surfaces-memories-brandon-lee-death/6132318001/
After Lee's death on March 31, 1993, little information was released. It was believed that a small explosive charge used to stimulate gunfire on the set of "The Crow" in Wilmington, N.C., led to Lee's death.
During filming, actor Michael Massee shot a revolver at Lee's character as he walks into the room. Lee collapsed backward, and when he didn't stand up, the crew thought he was still acting. Lee was rushed to the hospital, and after six hours of emergency surgery, he was pronounced dead.
It was later revealed through the autopsy that Lee's death was the result of a .44-caliber bullet discovered near Lee's spine. That drew criticism of the movie set's safety. While the gun contained blank ammunition, a lethal obstruction had been lodged in the barrel during the filming of another scene weeks before.
Lee's mother, Linda Lee Cadwell, sued for negligence four months after her son's death. Cadwell alleged that "crew members ran out of dummy bullets and improperly manufactured their own from live ammunition. During a test firing of the dummy ammunition, a bullet tip wound up in the barrel of the handgun."
District Attorney Jerry Spivey announced after an investigation in April 1993 that no criminal charges would be filed and that there was no evidence of criminal wrongdoing despite the movie crew's negligence.
Damn, there doesn't seem to be much difference between what happened back then and what happened at the Alec Baldwin shooting. Situation wise.
Difference between then and now is Alec and the Armorer are being brought up on charges.
Post by: Sodie on March 04, 2024, 05:48:47 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum)
Post by: groveler on March 04, 2024, 09:10:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adZs6VImpkAYou never point a gun at something you don't want to destroy.
Movies never have people point guns at other people.
Can you spell "special" effects and "editing"?
:geekdanc:
Most those people can't shoot worth a Shiite anyway.
Post by: macsak on March 06, 2024, 09:08:38 PM
Post by: macsak on March 07, 2024, 09:18:46 AM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 07, 2024, 09:48:08 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 15, 2024, 11:07:23 AM