2aHawaii
General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: changemyoil66 on November 15, 2021, 02:02:06 PM
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Prosecutor will not pursue any further charges (assault).
I know we were just talking about this, but can't remember in which thread.
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So the glove didn't fit for a third time?
So when is the Civil proceedings starting? ::)
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If they wait much longer to sue, they'll have to go after his estate! :rofl:
I never expected another bite at the proverbial apple. After the Kealoha mess, and Hawaii not getting convictions twice before, anything more would be viewed as malicious prosecution. Not to mention the mere fact of raising the case again just makes the Hawaii Prosecutor's office look worse.
The courts already decided that Deedy had jeopardy attached to all his charges, because the lesser charge was tied to the higher one. The rules say you can't keep pulling someone into court for the SAME CRIME using different charges. That would create a perpetual process, where prosecutors could keep lowering the charges for a single act until one sticks.
I've seen where someone acquitted of attempted murder was then charged for murder after the victim died even though the attempted murder trial ended in acquittal. That's because the crimes were different and not lesser charges of one another. The defendant was not charged in the first trial with murder, so that's fair game. Different crimes/outcomes = different trials.
In Deedy's case, he WAS charged with the lesser crime. Just because the lesser charge ended in a hung jury makes no difference. He's been tried, and there was no conviction on the main charges. Double jeopardy should have halted any further attempts to send him to prison.
I'm very glad the Prosecutor finally got a clue. Maybe the Rittenhouse case woke someone up over here. Self defense is a viable claim even when the aggressor is unarmed.
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#The justice system works
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If anyone thinks the justice system taking 10 years to stop trying to convict a member of the State Department over something that's already gone to trial twice and lost is "working" needs to Wake TF Up.
Two years ago, the appeals court ruled Deedy could be tried a third time, but only for assault.
Why did it take another 2 years for the Prosecutor's office to announce they would not be retrying him?
Maybe because their own corrupt behaviors were diverting their time and attention?
If you watched the Rittenhouse trial, you'd see how broken the justice system is. Liars testifying for the state not being charged with FELONY crimes they admitted to under oath, while someone RUNNING AWAY from attackers is tried for First-degree reckless homicide, use of a dangerous weapon among others.
The prosecution's own evidence and witnesses confirmed the shootings were in self defense. Exculpatory evidence should have required that the charges be dropped. Yet, the trial was convened. Now we see the gross misconduct, unconstitutional behavior, and incompetence of the WI DA on full display.
There's no verdict yet, so to say "it works" is so insanely premature.
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They tried to convict when they were wrong and never succeeded. Seems like in the end the system worked.
Same will happen for Kyle.
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They tried to convict when they were wrong and never succeeded. Seems like in the end the system worked.
Same will happen for Kyle.
10 years of being dragged into court, paying for lawyers, and not being allowed to perform the duties he was trained for at State.
That's your idea of justice? He's not been convicted of anything, but he's had to put plans and a career on hold for 10 years while being vilified by the Hawaii Prosecutor.
He's had to serve 10 years of his life in constant stress, legal expenses and turmoil, yet he hasn't been convicted of a single crime.
This is why innocent people plead guilty -- to make the government stop torturing them.
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10 years of being dragged into court, paying for lawyers, and not being allowed to perform the duties he was trained for at State.
That's your idea of justice? He's not been convicted of anything, but he's had to put plans and a career on hold for 10 years while being vilified by the Hawaii Prosecutor.
He's had to serve 10 years of his life in constant stress, legal expenses and turmoil, yet he hasn't been convicted of a single crime.
This is why innocent people plead guilty -- to make the government stop torturing them.
Dont forget passed up on any promotions. Same will happen to Kyle for future jobs he applies for. I doubt he will be a police officer like how he planned on.
Understanding the justice system is hard.
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Dont forget passed up on any promotions. Same will happen to Kyle for future jobs he applies for. I doubt he will be a police officer like how he planned on.
Understanding the justice system is hard.
Understanding the difference between justice and malicious prosecution is harder.
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10 years of being dragged into court, paying for lawyers, and not being allowed to perform the duties he was trained for at State.
That's your idea of justice? He's not been convicted of anything, but he's had to put plans and a career on hold for 10 years while being vilified by the Hawaii Prosecutor.
He's had to serve 10 years of his life in constant stress, legal expenses and turmoil, yet he hasn't been convicted of a single crime.
This is why innocent people plead guilty -- to make the government stop torturing them.
It's not a perfect system but it proves that unlike China or similar county even if the prosecutors or government wants an outcome the justice system will prevail. It's a sheild against corruption.
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It's not a perfect system but it proves that unlike China or similar county even if the prosecutors or government wants an outcome the justice system will prevail. It's a sheild against corruption.
I was unaware that our system is only to be judged by whether or not it works better than similar systems in oppressive Communist countries with no civil rights at all.
#LowBarsAreEasierToReach
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I was unaware that our system is only to be judged by whether or not it works better than similar systems in oppressive Communist countries with no civil rights at all.
#LowBarsAreEasierToReach
#atleastyouknowhowtohashtag
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https://youtu.be/OBiXS-vaUUw
You (meaning everybody) decide if he’s guilty of a crime or not.
He’s guilty, IMO.
Talk about provocation.
Elderts might have been a punk and lipping off, but anyone whose has time here knows if you’re going confront that guy you better be ready to throw.
Elderts does what any drunk punk local would do. He gets up and steps in. Fight ensues. Elderts kicks Deedy’s ass. Deeds shoots him.
Nobody in Hawaii generally carries especially not tourists. Which is what Deedy looked like.
Deedy called him, he stepped up, they went up and up, got smashed and killed him. Elderts wasn’t committing any crime.
Prosecutor’s messed up not including the lesser crime in the first trial and swinging for the fence.
Just my opinion.
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U left out he ID'd himself prior to the fight starting.
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You (meaning everybody) decide if he’s guilty of a crime or not.
He’s guilty, IMO.
Talk about provocation.
Elderts might have been a punk and lipping off, but anyone whose has time here knows if you’re going confront that guy you better be ready to throw.
Elderts does what any drunk punk local would do. He gets up and steps in. Fight ensues. Elderts kicks Deedy’s ass. Deeds shoots him.
Nobody in Hawaii generally carries especially not tourists.
Deedy called him, went up and up, got smashed and killed him. Elderts wasn’t committing any crime.
Prosecutor’s messed up not going the lesser crime in the first trial and swinging for the fence.
Just my opinion.
Guilty? Of what charge? He was ACQUITTED by a HAWAII JURY of MURDER. They deadlocked on Manslaughter.
Since you weren't in court, you have no idea what evidence the juries used to decide the case.
It's nice to have an opinion, but it should be based on more than a grainy video and some macho BS about people getting their asses kicked. How'd that work out for Elderts?
Deedy identified himself as a federal agent. Elderts should have backed down. He brought a pair of bare hands to a gun fight.
He won't ever do that again!
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https://youtu.be/OBiXS-vaUUw
You (meaning everybody) decide if he’s guilty of a crime or not.
He’s guilty, IMO.
Talk about provocation.
Elderts might have been a punk and lipping off, but anyone whose has time here knows if you’re going confront that guy you better be ready to throw.
Elderts does what any drunk punk local would do. He gets up and steps in. Fight ensues. Elderts kicks Deedy’s ass. Deeds shoots him.
Nobody in Hawaii generally carries especially not tourists. Which is what Deedy looked like.
Deedy called him, he stepped up, they went up and up, got smashed and killed him. Elderts wasn’t committing any crime.
Prosecutor’s messed up not including the lesser crime in the first trial and swinging for the fence.
Just my opinion.
That's the root cause. Deedy ID as LE and Elderts did not descalate. Elderts escalated to physical force instead of compliance and Deedy found himself in a situation where he may have expired.
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No audio.
That’s the debatable part.
But ID’d himself for what ? State Dept. gonna arrest a local for drunk and disorderly? Or just throw his weight around in moral righteousness ? (Nothing wrong with moral righteousness.)
This is one where he could’ve called the cops. Waikiki. One minutes away. No one was getting assaulted pre-incident. Wasn’t a when seconds are needed cops are minutes away scenario before Deedy got involved.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2013/08/19704-deedy-trial-whats-a-murderer-look-like/
That was not a good shoot in my view.
Elderts was being a dick to multiple customers but was definitely provoked into a confrontation with Deedy.
And this was not a Rittenhouse situation where he tried to avoid confrontation and got attacked.
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Where's Al Sharpton?
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No audio.
That’s the debatable part.
But ID’d himself for what ? State Dept. gonna arrest a local for drunk and disorderly? Or just throw his weight around in moral righteousness ? (Nothing wrong with moral righteousness.)
This is one where he could’ve called the cops. Waikiki. One minutes away. No one was getting assaulted pre-incident. Wasn’t a when seconds are needed cops are minutes away scenario before Deedy got involved.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2013/08/19704-deedy-trial-whats-a-murderer-look-like/
That was not a good shoot in my view.
Elderts was being a dick to multiple customers but was definitely provoked into a confrontation with Deedy.
And this was not a Rittenhouse situation where he tried to avoid confrontation and got attacked.
You really want to debate the same topic from 10 years ago now that it's over?
Really?
Sometimes a person disrespects the wrong hombre.
Occassionally someone thinks they can mess with someone and unfortunately, this is the result.
My advice is STFU and walk away.
A big mouth and puffed up chest doesn't get you anywhere.
But some people need to learn this lesson the hard way.
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You really want to debate the same topic from 10 years ago now that it's over?
Really?
Yeah. It’s actually a very interesting case if you followed it.
Prosecutor screwed up first trial with charges.
Lots of testimony both ways about ID and key witness saying never felt threatened by Elderts.
Did he ID himself ?
That was debated at trial. He claims it’s on video. Hard to tell. As Flapp pointed out grainy and herky jerky. Conflicting witness reports.
But I guess y’all now trust law enforcement. ( snide remark)
CCW…would you (meaning everyone) have got involved ? (Granted as a citizen)
Knowing you might have to pull on this guy who is mouthing off to others, but not threatening anyone, and that you’re about to confront ?
Plus all my other comments above. (The video was just a short example from the news that they edited.)
That said. Did Elderts play a stupid game ? Absolutely.
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I hope McDonalds got a better security camera system. My first system using a VHS recorder was better than that. One picture a second and no audio? Ridiculous.
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https://youtu.be/OBiXS-vaUUw
You (meaning everybody) decide if he’s guilty of a crime or not.
He’s guilty, IMO.
Talk about provocation.
Elderts might have been a punk and lipping off, but anyone whose has time here knows if you’re going confront that guy you better be ready to throw.
Elderts does what any drunk punk local would do. He gets up and steps in. Fight ensues. Elderts kicks Deedy’s ass. Deeds shoots him.
Nobody in Hawaii generally carries especially not tourists. Which is what Deedy looked like.
Deedy called him, he stepped up, they went up and up, got smashed and killed him. Elderts wasn’t committing any crime.
Prosecutor’s messed up not including the lesser crime in the first trial and swinging for the fence.
Just my opinion.
Problem is that you shouldn't have to be ready to throw. If a guy is being a problem, a good samaritan should be able to tell him to calm down without having to be ready/willing to fight because of it.
I watched the video again and it isn't quite smooth enough to really get a good idea of how hostilities progressed. I don't think I would have shot as early as Deedy did if I were in the same situation but I don't think it necessarily amounts to murder either. Manslaughter? Maybe but even then not a real strong case. I would have to listen to all the testimony again to get a real well informed opinion but if Elderts was really smashing Deedy's head into the ground then I could see a justified shooting.
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You (meaning everybody) decide if he’s guilty of a crime or not.
He’s guilty, IMO.
Talk about provocation.
Elderts might have been a punk and lipping off, but anyone whose has time here knows if you’re going confront that guy you better be ready to throw.
Elderts does what any drunk punk local would do. He gets up and steps in. Fight ensues. Elderts kicks Deedy’s ass. Deeds shoots him.
Nobody in Hawaii generally carries especially not tourists. Which is what Deedy looked like.
Deedy called him, he stepped up, they went up and up, got smashed and killed him. Elderts wasn’t committing any crime.
Prosecutor’s messed up not including the lesser crime in the first trial and swinging for the fence.
Just my opinion.
He assaulted a Federal Agent. I'm pretty sure assault and battery is a crime whether or not Deedy identified himself as an agent.
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That’s some MSM editing of my comments. :rofl:
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Problem is that you shouldn't have to be ready to throw. If a guy is being a problem, a good samaritan should be able to tell him to calm down without having to be ready/willing to fight because of it.
I watched the video again and it isn't quite smooth enough to really get a good idea of how hostilities progressed. I don't think I would have shot as early as Deedy did if I were in the same situation but I don't think it necessarily amounts to murder either. Manslaughter? Maybe but even then not a real strong case. I would have to listen to all the testimony again to get a real well informed opinion but if Elderts was really smashing Deedy's head into the ground then I could see a justified shooting.
If 1 is.getting their head smashed in, use of deadly force is too late. Look at Myeni, cops arm went limp as he got his face smashed in. Good thing he had back up. Had he been alone, he might be dead.
So deedy and others would pull their gun b4 head smashing begins.
As a civilian, use of deadly force if u believe death or serious injury would happen. Idk ROE for LEOs off duty.
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If 1 is.getting their head smashed in, use of deadly force is too late. Look at Myeni, cops arm went limp as he got his face smashed in. Good thing he had back up. Had he been alone, he might be dead.
So deedy and others would pull their gun b4 head smashing begins.
As a civilian, use of deadly force if u believe death or serious injury would happen. Idk ROE for LEOs off duty.
Same ROE applies to LE and civilians alike. If you're carrying a firearm, and someone is assaulting you, the worst case scenario is they disarm you. They can shoot you, shoot others in the area, or flee with it and commit crimes with it later. Short answer -- never allow your firearm to be taken from you. If you're in an altercation and are unable to defend yourself from the attacker/s without the firearm, you have the right (duty?) to defend yourself with that force you deem necessary.
George Zimmerman was in the same boat with his head being smashed on the sidewalk. He testified he felt he was close to losing consciousness. It's impossible to maintain control of a firearm if you are unconscious.
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If 1 is.getting their head smashed in, use of deadly force is too late. Look at Myeni, cops arm went limp as he got his face smashed in. Good thing he had back up. Had he been alone, he might be dead.
Not necessarily. IIRC in the Zimmerman trial he stated that he was getting punched in the head repeatedly causing his head also to hit the sidewalk repeatedly and he felt that he was starting to lose consciousness. Depends on what you can articulate.
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Not necessarily. IIRC in the Zimmerman trial he stated that he was getting punched in the head repeatedly causing his head also to hit the sidewalk repeatedly and he felt that he was starting to lose consciousness. Depends on what you can articulate.
Did u watch the bodycam? Myeni didnt show any sign of stopping when he was smashing the cops face in? Did u hear his cadence while raining blows and how he wasnt gassing out either.
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If 1 is.getting their head smashed in, use of deadly force is too late. Look at Myeni, cops arm went limp as he got his face smashed in. Good thing he had back up. Had he been alone, he might be dead.
According to his spouse, that is how he greets people where he is from
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One thing missing here is the Hawaiian sense of self preservation.
I used to live in a place where a good percentage of people concealed carried.
Only a very stupid person ever escalated an aggression when the other
person backed down and did not act afraid.
You were about to die if you pushed it further and
you KNEW that!
So some drunk Braddah beats me up bad.
I'm all fucked up for the rest of my life and he is in jail for a bit.
How would it end if I'm OK, and his arrogant, aggressive brains are spread all over the wall?
What is the better end? Two lives ruined or just one?
Plus the sure knowledge that acts of Bravado and aggression in public won't end well
for the arrogant ass? An armed society is a polite one.
:thumbsup:
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According to his spouse, that is how he greets people where he is from
Did they even release a tox report?
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One thing missing here is the Hawaiian sense of self preservation.
I used to live in a place where a good percentage of people concealed carried.
Only a very stupid person ever escalated an aggression when the other
person backed down and did not act afraid.
You were about to die if you pushed it further and
you KNEW that!
So some drunk Braddah beats me up bad.
I'm all fucked up for the rest of my life and he is in jail for a bit.
How would it end if I'm OK, and his arrogant, aggressive brains are spread all over the wall?
What is the better end? Two lives ruined or just one?
Plus the sure knowledge that acts of Bravado and aggression in public won't end well
for the arrogant ass? An armed society is a polite one.
:thumbsup:
Some people go through life never learning that their personal actions have real consequences.
They ACT all big and tough, maybe get in a few fights when they push too hard, but nothing life altering.
But then, it happens ......
https://youtu.be/SVjMzrCMW9Q
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Elderts thought he was BJ Penn.
Isn’t that Clint’s son as the white kid in that scene ?
Good movie.
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Elderts thought he was BJ Penn.
Isn’t that Clint’s son as the white kid in that scene ?
Good movie.
Would have ended way different if the Cop knew he was in a "Shall issue" state
as opposed to one where the Honest people are disarmed.
I like polite and slightly afraid cops, as opposed to belligerent
overlords free from any restraints.
Union will always get you your pension.
and pay for all law-suits.
>:D
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95% or more of the time, it is a bad idea to get involved in a 3rd party altercation, unless someone was in imminent danger of getting killed or seriously hurt AND you are in a position to help. Like if you came across 7 guys gang raping a girl and the only weapon you have ia a 4 inch tactical folder. In such a case, run and get help.
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95% or more of the time, it is a bad idea to get involved in a 3rd party altercation, unless someone was in imminent danger of getting killed or seriously hurt AND you are in a position to help. Like if you came across 7 guys gang raping a girl and the only weapon you have ia a 4 inch tactical folder. In such a case, run and get help.
Stick the Tactical folder in some's back as you run for help.
I never fight fair.
:wacko:
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Would have ended way different if the Cop knew he was in a "Shall issue" state
as opposed to one where the Honest people are disarmed.
I like polite and slightly afraid cops, as opposed to belligerent
overlords free from any restraints.
Union will always get you your pension.
and pay for all law-suits.
>:D
I find it interesting how his friend and fellow agent testified that he warned Deedy of the difference between "haole" and "f-ing haole".
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95% or more of the time, it is a bad idea to get involved in a 3rd party altercation, unless someone was in imminent danger of getting killed or seriously hurt AND you are in a position to help. Like if you came across 7 guys gang raping a girl and the only weapon you have ia a 4 inch tactical folder. In such a case, run and get help.
Correct, one doesn't know why 1 guy is stabbing or shooting or kicking a face in of another guy. Could be the guy getting worked raped his sister. Then add in a lawsuit you will face if you harm/kill someone. And this is all for a stranger. Thanks to our court system, the lawsuit outcome is bound to happen. Which makes me think twice about helping anyone.
Now the rape story is definitely different from the above statement.
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Did u watch the bodycam? Myeni didnt show any sign of stopping when he was smashing the cops face in? Did u hear his cadence while raining blows and how he wasnt gassing out either.
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I watched the video, that doesn't disprove what I was saying though. Sometimes a person getting their head bashed in is unconscious but sometimes they are still conscious and can draw and fire a weapon.
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I watched the video, that doesn't disprove what I was saying though. Sometimes a person getting their head bashed in is unconscious but sometimes they are still conscious and can draw and fire a weapon.
Ok, good luck with that. Guess cops should know how much blows to the face they can take before getting knocked out. And how much injuries theyre willing to take by allowing said blows to happen.
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Ok, good luck with that. Guess cops should know how much blows to the face they can take before getting knocked out. And how much injuries theyre willing to take by allowing said blows to happen.
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I didn't say they are required to let someone bash in their head to a certain extent before they are allowed to shoot.
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I didn't say they are required to let someone bash in their head to a certain extent before they are allowed to shoot.
So do u agree deadly force can be allowed prior to getting ones face/head bashed in?
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Another thing that EEF you may have missed is that once CCW/OC is legalized in HI, this could happen to anyone of us. We are not the aggressor, but someone else started being physical. Then a firearm is used in self defense against an unarmed person. Are we to be tried for 10 years like how Deedy was? And just to add in, there was no time to retreat before being attacked. How many punches/kicks does an armed citizen need to take before using deadly force?
Or say you're in plain clothes but carrying. You see someone acting up and tell them to be cool. They say F-U and it escalates. You mention that you're HPD, but are off duty. Get attacked by said person because they don't take kindly when haole's tell them what to do. You draw your firearm and shoot. Should you be in a 10 year court case and 10 years of stress?
Elders played stupid games and lost, plain and simple.
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SNIP
Elders played stupid games and lost, plain and simple.
Pretty much. . . ended up messing with the wrong person. . .
Could Deedy have handled it better? Ahh, probably. But you wanna test how tough you are, be ready for the "unpleasant answer".
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I think all this "big body" and "what, you like go?" bravado will cease to exist once CCW or OC is legalized in Hawaii.
An armed society is a polite society. All the Bruce Lee's out there will calm down. The smart ones anyway.
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I think all this "big body" and "what, you like go?" bravado will cease to exist once CCW or OC is legalized in Hawaii.
An armed society is a polite society. All the Bruce Lee's out there will calm down. The smart ones anyway.
The problem is the ones who don't calm down, now put us in lawsuits.
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I think all this "big body" and "what, you like go?" bravado will cease to exist once CCW or OC is legalized in Hawaii.
An armed society is a polite society. All the Bruce Lee's out there will calm down. The smart ones anyway.
That's never going to stop. There's always going to be those who think they are top dog, or want to be top dog, and "nosked".
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That's never going to stop. There's always going to be those who think they are top dog, or want to be top dog, and "nosked".
And as LE, Deedy can't just say nevermind and walk away. Once he stuck his nose out, he has to implement "ask, tell, make".
Once I was shopping and saw this guy grabbing his girl by the arm and she fell to the ground by her own will. Like a child who's having a tantrum type of falling to the ground. I started to approach and so did this other guy in plain clothes. Guy told us to fuck off and mind our own business. Turns out the other guy was off duty HPD. He showed his badge to the guy. Then the guy chilled out and explained that his wife was supposed to be in the car watching the kids while he picks up his goods So he was mad that she too was shopping because now the kids are alone in the car.
I walked away after he explained this to the cop so IDK what ever came about after. But the point of the story is the off duty cop intervened and had the guy escalated things, would it have resulted in a use of a firearm if the off duty was armed. I highly doubt if the guy didn't chill out, the cop would have just walked away.
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So do u agree deadly force can be allowed prior to getting ones face/head bashed in?
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Potentially, all depends on the circumstances.
And yes, Elderts played a stupid game and lost. I don't know all the details of the case so I can't say I 100% think the shooting was justified but that is a separate question as well.