2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: RSN172 on March 28, 2022, 10:22:36 AM
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This poor woman suffered devastating injuries while being attacked by 3 dogs. A man was able to chase the dogs away by firing a gun in the air (not a good idea not knowing where your bullet will land). Here in Puna, I see lots of loose dogs, many chase after the car when you pass. I also see people walking without even a stick in their hand. This got me thinking, what could I do to stop an attack like this without a gun? I am not about to go against 3 dogs with only a knife and/or a stick. Since we cannot legally carry a gun in Hawaii, what would you do? Call 911 and remain safely in your vehicle?
https://nypost.com/2022/03/25/sc-mom-has-both-arms-amputated-after-mauled-by-3-pitbulls/
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This poor woman suffered devastating injuries while being attacked by 3 dogs. A man was able to chase the dogs away by firing a gun in the air (not a good idea not knowing where your bullet will land). Here in Puna, I see lots of loose dogs, many chase after the car when you pass. I also see people walking without even a stick in their hand. This got me thinking, what could I do to stop an attack like this without a gun? I am not about to go against 3 dogs with only a knife and/or a stick. Since we cannot legally carry a gun in Hawaii, what would you do? Call 911 and remain safely in your vehicle?
https://nypost.com/2022/03/25/sc-mom-has-both-arms-amputated-after-mauled-by-3-pitbulls/
Break the law, you are in the Puna district. /sarc
:shaka:
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Bear spray?
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Break the law, you are in the Puna district. /sarc
:shaka:
I almost forgot that over here you can shoot and leave and either mobody will call the cops or if called they will take 45 min minimum to get here. But since no one here does anything illegal, I cannot carry a gun outside my property and break this forum's rules.
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I often come across this situation when commuting on the bike path. I try to find an alternate path or just pedal as fast as I can through the pack of dogs.
This is where I commute through: https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/02/18/bike-ride-ends-with-trip-er-after-vicious-dog-attack/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/02/18/bike-ride-ends-with-trip-er-after-vicious-dog-attack/)
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I was doing a service call at Schofield years ago while I was still working. A loose dog rushed me, hell bent on latching on to me.
I kicked out at it instinctively and it backed away. I planned to take off my shirt and wrap it around my left forearm. If it rushed me again I was planning to hold my left arm out and let it latch on. Once latched on I was planning to scissor lock it with my legs and then stab it repeatedly with my right arm with my pocket knife.
Well, that was the plan anyway. Not sure if it would've worked. A kid appeared out of nowhere and called the dog off. Guess it was his fuckin dog.
Too bad the kid was a ways off. I would have kicked him too.
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Zero dog training, but my plan is to go ape shit on the dog before it jumps at you. No way I'm gonna out run a dog. All the dog attack vids ive seen have people hitting the dogs body with a branch or stick, which didn't do anything. Head blows with fist and if can false the dog mid air, I hope this would work =. YOu might break your hand, but hope the dog gets scared off. Basically, attack, attack, attack once the dog pounces. Plus my knife should already be drawn by then, and then body blows would work better.
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I often come across this situation when commuting on the bike path. I try to find an alternate path or just pedal as fast as I can through the pack of dogs.
This is where I commute through: https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/02/18/bike-ride-ends-with-trip-er-after-vicious-dog-attack/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/02/18/bike-ride-ends-with-trip-er-after-vicious-dog-attack/)
Hawaii needs CCW. Not all threats are the two legged kind.
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In Samoa everyone carries rocks or a club if they are walking by themselves.
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In Fiji they walk down the road with cane knives
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In Tonga all the mean dogs get eaten
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This woman was attacked by 3 dogs. One dog, I figure I can handle with my EDC, but not 3 dogs. These dogs were in the process of eating this woman alive, hence the question what would you do without a gun. Bear spray is good, but can you legally carry that in Hawaii? Tokunagas in Hilo had at least a dozen on the shelf when I was there 2 weeks ago. Almost heard they have a stockpile of Tasers but waiting for their seller permit.
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In Fiji they walk down the road with cane knives
I wouldn't feel confident confronting 3 dogs bent to kill with a cane knife, even though I am very experienced using one, having trimmed cocos more than 20,000 times with one. I would feel much more confident with my katana sword. Maybe I should start carrying it in my car.
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3 good size dogs.
You’re fawked.
Pack mentality at that point.
The bear spray might work though.
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You should always carry a pocket knife i will take on three dog with my edc!
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Multiple stabs to the heart or cut the throat.
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First thing, try to understand animal behavior. Dogs will become more aggressive if they think you are intimidated. Don't respond to their barks and nips. don't yell. Stand still -- arms down but fists clenched ready just in case. Don't make eye contact, which signals a challenge. In short, don't panic. If they are seeming to become less aggressive, try very slowly walking away.
Next, if the dog won't disengage, try loud, authoritative commands, like "No!," "Stay!" and "Heel!" Dogs that have had some degree of training should know at least one of those commands and might at least pause to consider what's being commanded. The more you appear to be in control and not simply reacting to the animal's aggression, the better.
Whatever you do, don't run. If you are on a bike, push it rather than try to out run them. Fast-moving "prey" are an invitation for a chase.
If you have something close to you to throw, try using that to distract them. Don't throw it at the dog. Just toss it away from you so the dog sees it. I doubt he'll fetch it, but it shows you have the "power" to strike the animal from a distance.
If all fails, and you are being bitten, protect your face and neck. Try punching the dog's nose which is their most sensitive body part that's coming at you. If you have the strength, you can try grabbing the dog by the throat, but that only lasts a few seconds before they wiggle loose. A sharp punch or kick causes pain that last longer.
If you can evade, go for higher ground. Jump onto a rock wall, car hood, or anything else that gives you more height. It may prevent the dog from reaching you at all, but at least it helps protect your face and neck. This might be the best plan if attacked by a pack of dogs.
Afterward, seek medical attention. Animal bites are almost as bad as human bites. Infections can become life-threatening.
If you escape and have a moment out of danger while in view of the dogs, take a pic on your phone. The pics will help identify the dog/s later when you report the attack to the Cops. Don't bother reporting to the Humane Society. They will be contacted by the police if needed. Report it even if you weren't injured. Menacing dogs can hurt the next person who tries to run.
When I was a kid, I used to go door-to-door all the time (seems like more days than not) selling fundraiser stuff for band, school, Boy Scouts, my Church youth group, etc. I also sold newspapers for myself on my bike. I've dealt with my share of dogs wanting to chase me. The best, most reliable response was to stop, freeze and wait. If you aren't behaving as the dog hoped (running, screaming in fear or fighting), they will also stop to size the situation up. 9 times out of 10, they will go away since you're not "playing" their game. You aren't afraid, combative or anything else. You're just still .... quiet ,,, waiting.
Pit Bulls are going to be the exception. When they decide to attack, they go all in. They bite and refuse to let go. They will continue to attack relentlessly until they win. Standing still is difficult, as well as ill-advised, if you're being mauled. At this point, you only have one option -- FIGHT! I've seen stories of Pit Bull attacks. One man was jogging and had 3 of them attack. He was left without feet and with several other major injuries. The thing the victims all had in common was how determined the Pit Bulls were. Once they made up their minds to attack, getting them to stop was nearly impossible.
They say once a dog tastes human blood, they have to be put down. I believe that to be true, if for no other reason than they have already shown they have no problem attacking humans. This is why reporting them is important.
Animals are animals, no matter how well-trained, "sweet" or socialized you think yours are. My 90 lb German Shepherd was a completely friendly dog. Never even looked like he was thinking of hurting a person. But, when people came over, I put him in his pen or kept him on a lead at my side. I wanted to make sure if anything happened, he was always within my control. You can't control the environment 100% of the time. Things can happen to make them think there is danger. They react on instinct. A responsible owner would control their dogs and not allow them to roam freely. I personally think any dog roaming the streets needs to be reported and picked up by animal control or whoever is in that role. Safer for the dog, and safer for everyone.
https://youtu.be/fq4gCidGMuk
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You should always carry a pocket knife i will take on three dog with my edc!
That I would like to see. Actually not. I don't want to see you get killed or maimed.Multiple stabs to the heart or cut the throat.
Against one dog good chance. Against 3 dogs, you would have almost no chance.
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I almost forgot that over here you can shoot and leave and either mobody will call the cops or if called they will take 45 min minimum to get here. But since no one here does anything illegal, I cannot carry a gun outside my property and break this forum's rules.
The Oahu people may not appreciate this, If you have a hunting license, in the area you and I live in we can carry guns as we are
pig hunting or going to a place to pig hunt..
We can't shoot on/from a PUBLIC road, or within several hundred feet of a house, but we can carry guns in public.
You are correct about response times and as to whether someone calls.
I hear gunfire all the time at night, some of it has even been full auto, I don't call the cops for anything.
As far as I know my neighbors don't either.
I never violate the law, but I'm not required to snitch on locals being locals either.
:shaka:
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That I would like to see. Actually not. I don't want to see you get killed or maimed.Against one dog good chance. Against 3 dogs, you would have almost no chance.
Maybe against a bulldog and shihtzu mix. . .
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Can always carry pepper spray
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Lucky thing I carry dog treats everywhere I go 😉
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Lucky thing I carry dog treats everywhere I go 😉
That might make you more of a target for hungry dogs!
Just saying...
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Samurai sword
theres a homeless guy in kapahulu packing a knights of the round table broad sword. he frequents the 7-11
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Can always carry pepper spray
And I always do
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Also get your back up against a tree or other object because dogs working together will always circle around and try to get your blind side. It's good to gave a secondary.
(https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/0x380/6/7/3be5748fb47402ab04b57a592d9b6d2fb8a0c539766a783dca7d4127e1f74d/Vikings-Season-2-Floki-official-picture-vikings-tv-series-37651177-2655-3543.jpg?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimages6.fanpop.com%2Fimage%2Fphotos%2F37600000%2FVikings-Season-2-Floki-official-picture-vikings-tv-series-37651177-2655-3543.jpg&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=0)
One of the methods of capturing dogs to eat in East Asia is that people will hold out a stick for them to bite and then crack them in the head with a frying pan.
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Samurai sword
theres a homeless guy in kapahulu packing a knights of the round table broad sword. he frequents the 7-11
No blade limit in Hawaii.
I am basing my reasoning of a knife against 3 dogs on my experience hunting pigs with dogs on Molokai. A wild boar tusks are like knives and I am sure it can strike harder and faster with it than a human using a knife. One on one, a dog cannot take on a boar, but with 3 or more dogs, the boar will get held good enough for the hunter to kill it with a hunting knife. I never did that, but I knew quite a few guys on Molokai who would go pig hunting only with dogs and a knife. I was too much of a coward to try that. I would not do well among the Masai tribe in Africa.
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In Hawaii, if a dog attacks you, you cannot legally shoot it. (animal cruelty) :wtf:
If it is attacking your livestock, it is fair game. ::)
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In Hawaii, if a dog attacks you, you cannot legally shoot it. (animal cruelty) :wtf:
If it is attacking your livestock, it is fair game. ::)
Interesting as I was taught when out hunting it was mandatory ( local rules)
that you shoot any dog that did not have a collar.
I have a pet donkey I guess I'll take him on my walks.
Added protection, donkeys will kill dogs - they don't like them.
That is why you put a donkey out with sheep.
:thumbsup:
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In Hawaii, if a dog attacks you, you cannot legally shoot it. (animal cruelty) :wtf:
If it is attacking your livestock, it is fair game. ::)
Damn, I wasn't aware of this. And chalk up another senseless law that Hawaii lawmakers make. Never mind that you are getting mauled. ALM. Animal Lives Matter. Not law abiding citizens.
Laws for animal cruelty. None for law abiding citizens treated cruelly.
But as always, don't forget to pay your taxes.
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In Hawaii, if a dog attacks you, you cannot legally shoot it. (animal cruelty) :wtf:
If it is attacking your livestock, it is fair game. ::)
You sure about that Rock?
§ 711-1108.5 Cruelty to animals in the first degree.
(1) A person commits the offense of cruelty to animals in the first degree if the person intentionally or knowingly :
(b) Kills or attempts to kill any pet animal belonging to another person, without first obtaining legal authority or the consent of the pet animal's owner.
(3) Subsection (1)(b) shall not apply to:
(b) Conduct which the actor believes to be necessary to avoid an imminent harm or evil to the actor, another person, or an animal; provided that the harm or evil sought to be avoided by such conduct is greater than that sought to be prevented by this section and is justifiable as provided in section 703-302 for choice of evils; provided further that, for purposes of this paragraph, as the justification described in section 703-302 shall also apply to conduct which the actor believes to be necessary to avoid an imminent harm or evil to an animal.
§703-302 Choice of evils. (1) Conduct which the actor believes to be necessary to avoid an imminent harm or evil to the actor or to another is justifiable provided that:
(a) The harm or evil sought to be avoided by such conduct is greater than that sought to be prevented by the law defining the offense charged;
(b) Neither the Code nor other law defining the offense provides exceptions or defenses dealing with the specific situation involved; and
(c) A legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed does not otherwise plainly appear.
(2) When the actor was reckless or negligent in bringing about the situation requiring a choice of harms or evils or in appraising the necessity for the actor's conduct, the justification afforded by this section is unavailable in a prosecution for any offense for which recklessness or negligence, as the case may be, suffices to establish culpability.
(3) In a prosecution for escape under section 710-1020 or 710-1021, the defense available under this section is limited to an affirmative defense consisting of the following elements:
(a) The actor receives a threat, express or implied, of death, substantial bodily injury, or forcible sexual attack;
(b) Complaint to the proper prison authorities is either impossible under the circumstances or there exists a history of futile complaints;
(c) Under the circumstances there is no time or opportunity to resort to the courts;
(d) No force or violence is used against prison personnel or other innocent persons; and
(e) The actor promptly reports to the proper authorities when the actor has attained a position of safety from the immediate threat. [L 1972, c 9, pt of §1; am L 1986, c 314, §6; gen ch 1993]
Attacking you or anyone or any animal on your property. Shoot ‘em if can’t scare ‘em off .
Walking down the road. You’re fawked or use suggestions noted previously. Could always use a pig spear as a walking stick.
I am not a lawyer
Edited to include referenced 703-302
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In Hawaii, if a dog attacks you, you cannot legally shoot it. (animal cruelty) :wtf:
If it is attacking your livestock, it is fair game. ::)
When I saw this email, I thought this was about Duane Dog Chapman. . .
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Damn, I wasn't aware of this. And chalk up another senseless law that Hawaii lawmakers make. Never mind that you are getting mauled. ALM. Animal Lives Matter. Not law abiding citizens.
Laws for animal cruelty. None for law abiding citizens treated cruelly.
But as always, don't forget to pay your taxes.
Hawaii law says you commit animal cruelty if you kill an animal "without need". That phrase is similar to Florida's law that says you can shoot/kill an animal if it is a "necessary killing." One factor is you have to do it as humanely as possible, not like hunt it down after you stop the attack and continue to shoot it with small caliber/air soft type ammo -- inflicting more and more pain. You should quickly and as painlessly as possible put it down.
So, there's a range of what's legal. Even if you were being attacked, inflicting excessive pain without dispatching it is illegal. Makes me think of things like bleach or ammonia in a water gun that some people suggest carrying to stop dogs. That could cause great pain if it enters the eyes. That's cruel, no matter what the animal was doing.
If you killed the animal "with need," and it was done humanely, I see no reason to fear the law if you shoot an attacking dog.
Of course, the gun would have to be where you are legally allowed to have it, since carrying in public is a no-no. :geekdanc:
Summary: Under this set of Hawaii laws, a person commits the misdemeanor offense of
cruelty to animals if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly overdrives, overloads,
tortures, torments, cruelly beats or starves any animal, deprives a pet animal of necessary
sustenance, mutilates, poisons, or kills without need any animal other than insects, vermin,
or other pests, or engages in animal fighting enterprises. Dog fighting constitutes a felony
where the person owns or trains the dog to fight. The section has enhanced penalties for
cruelty to guide or service animals or interference with their duties.
https://www.animallaw.info/statute/hi-cruelty-hawaii-cruelty-animals-provisions-chapter-711
§ 711-1109 Cruelty to animals in the second degree.
(1) A person commits the offense of cruelty to animals in the second degree if the person intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly:
(c) Mutilates, poisons, or kills without need any animal other than insects, vermin, or other pests;
provided that the handling or extermination of any insect, vermin, or other pest is conducted in
accordance with standard and acceptable pest control practices and all applicable laws and
regulations;
https://www.animallaw.info/statute/hi-cruelty-hawaii-cruelty-animals-provisions-chapter-711#s1108_5
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There you go.
I covered first degree above and you covered second.
My reference is almost castle doctrine except against animals on your property. (Other people’s pets though)
Stray dogs, looks like Flapp’s post would apply.
The way I read it.
703-302 choice of evils is interesting.