2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: changemyoil66 on April 25, 2022, 11:50:30 AM
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So as you've seen in this section, the state is trying to pass a bill that says only FFL purchases no need bring the gun to HPD, and all others you have to (private sales, mainland purchase,etc...)
Another reply to the states appeal was filed today saying that this is violating the judges ruling. For all purchases/transfers there is no need to bring in the gun to HPD to show them.
So basically the state is violating the judges ruling and trying to see what they can get away with. But since HIFICO has good lawyers, they've submitted the brief about it telling the state to uphold/honor the judges ruling.
And the state has yet to change the permit to acquire valid date for pistols from 5 days to 10 days as the judge ruled.
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HRA filed a brief in response to the states appeal. Bascially saying that the state could not prove that in person reg helps with public safety.
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This state is run by a bunch of F-ups.
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Related to this lawsuit:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2022/bills/HB2075_CD1_.htm?fbclid=IwAR3e-kRF1vtWpOtNFr_2oLBfxVczSCTua8Oub2r0_I-EGHdkhloaFZDyCG8
HB2075 revised that negates the judges orders.
Then they added this in "These laws were part of militia requirements, which mandated that individuals subject to militia duty -- typically white men in a specified age range -- must acquire their own arms and ammunition."
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Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) has submitted an amicus brief as well.
*Update
NRA also filed.
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Looks like they want to have all pre-1899 antiques registered as well, the language is so broad and vague.
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Gun Owners of America (GOA) filed their amicus. Good to see other groups helping out. So far no anti 2a groups have filed anything to support the states position.
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On Sunday I bought a NIB Henry AR7 from a friend who didn't want it anymore. On Monday I called HPD (Hawaii PD) Firearms department and registered it over the phone. Took less than 5 minutes. It was so easy it makes me want to buy more.
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A post I wrote up a couple weeks ago.
Hawaii Firearms Coalition
Published by Soleil Roache · May 10 at 10:46 AM
Yukutake/Kikukawa v. Shikada
Our court case regarding firearms permits and inspection started in October 2019 to ease the burden on acquiring firearms in Hawaii. I bought my first gun since then from my friend (and co-plaintiff) David Kikukawa at Danger Close Tactical.
I didn't have to take any time off of work to get my gun. I applied during HPD's afterwork hours on Wednesday, received my permit by email, and registered my gun online. Prior to the lawsuit, the required three day trips to HPD cost me $300 in lost wages with each firearm purchased. Multiply that by 25,000 permits applications per year, that means $7.5 million in lost wages annually for Hawaii gun owners.
I hoped the State would drop their appeal as this was a win-win for everyone - gun owners saved time and money, police departments save manpower better used for patrols and investigations, and the State would save taxpayers’ money by not continuing the litigation on this lawsuit. I was wrong.
The lawsuit will continue in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and we have a very strong case. Many thanks to the organizations submitting amicus briefs in support of this lawsuit: Hawaii Rifle Association , NRA - National Rifle Association of America, Second Amendment Foundation / Madison Society Foundation, Gun Owners of America and many others who wrote and supported the briefs. And most importantly Attorney Alan Beck and Stephen Stamboulieh for taking on this lawsuit.
https://hifico.org/yukutake-v-connors-registration-and-permit-law/
https://pdfhost.io/v/x7CXgx0Ob_Yukutake_HRA_Amicus_Brief
https://pdfhost.io/v/mWqbo1cu7_Yukutake_NRA_Amicus_Brief
https://pdfhost.io/v/sZuASQwW1_SAF_MSF_Amici_Brief_Yukatake_TBF
https://pdfhost.io/v/0GJ22fLrA_SYukutake_amicus_brief_finalwpd
(https://i.imgur.com/wXpjAXQ.jpg)
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Updates copied from other posts:
On June 3rd Governor Ige signed into law HB2075 Requiring in-person inspection/registration for firearms acquired from out of state, person to person, or assembled with engraved registration numbers. This conflicts with the Federal District Court's ruling in Yukutake v Connors which struck down the requirement as unconstitutional. Honolulu Police Department has updated their website to reflect the changes. It is unknown if other county's are following. Firearms acquired through FFL's may still be registered remotely and are exempt from the in-person inspection/registration requirement
We are confident that we will prevail in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in Yukutake v Connors.
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Update:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlM_zuJMbjU
1:41
This is the 9th circuit 3 judge panel.
Judge was leaning that "history" was diff back in 1791 as they didn't have the tech to do checks like how we can today. So he asked Alan if he was challenging the background totally, which he wasn't. Alan is challenging the delay that HI has with 14 days for a PTA. When a FFL can do the check and it takes 20 mins.
IDK which way this is gonna go.
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Update:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlM_zuJMbjU
1:41
This is the 9th circuit 3 judge panel.
Judge was leaning that "history" was diff back in 1791 as they didn't have the tech to do checks like how we can today. So he asked Alan if he was challenging the background totally, which he wasn't. Alan is challenging the delay that HI has with 14 days for a PTA. When a FFL can do the check and it takes 20 mins.
IDK which way this is gonna go.
I would say not in our favor. That way I won't be disappointed and if it is ruled in our favor I will be pleasantly surprised.
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Is this the case that the AG is trying to moot? I thought this case was challenging the 14day waiting period?
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SB1230 attempts to moot this case by changing the law to a 30 day expiration date for handgun permit to acquire(current 10 days) and removing the 3 year expiration date for the no firearms inspection at the pd for firearms purchased from an FFL.
I have a feeling we will win this case in the end.
The 14 day waiting period is not covered in the lawsuit. I'm sure it will come up later in the future.
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Is this the case that the AG is trying to moot? I thought this case was challenging the 14day waiting period?
The states most recent thing is that they're saying SB1230 changes the 10 day window of picking up a permit. But this has yet to be signed by Green. What they're doing is Taser 3.0. By changing the law, the lawyers cannot claim much in atty fees/damages.
I'll bet the judge will hold off on a ruling to give Green time to sign the bill.
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The states most recent thing is that they're saying SB1230 changes the 10 day window of picking up a permit. But this has yet to be signed by Green. What they're doing is Taser 3.0. By changing the law, the lawyers cannot claim much in atty fees/damages.
I'll bet the judge will hold off on a ruling to give Green time to sign the bill.
You posted something above about the judge asking the attorney if he was challenging the entire background check is that for this same case?
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You posted something above about the judge asking the attorney if he was challenging the entire background check is that for this same case?
Yes, but was not part of the lawsuit. Weird cause the judge was asking about the 14 day PTA and Beck brought up how quick NICS is for all the other states that use it.
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Yes, but was not part of the lawsuit. Weird cause the judge was asking about the 14 day PTA and Beck brought up how quick NICS is for all the other states that use it.
Ahh I see. That’s what I was confused about. Mahalo :shaka:
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Ahh I see. That’s what I was confused about. Mahalo :shaka:
I'm sure when Green signs Sb1230, there will be a bunch of lawsuits challenging much of HRS134.
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Update:
The 3 judge panel ruled even with the online reg for FFL purchases, it's still unconstitutional to have to bring the gun in person to reg at HPD. This was still required for private party sales or out of state.
I'm sure HI will appeal to En Banc, the full 9th circuit But if they don't this would mean all registration can be done online.
The state also changed the pick up time frame of a permit to acquire from 10 days to 30. This also has been ruled unconstitutional by the panel.
The owner of Danger Close is also a plaintiff. I spend my money there since he's fighting for our 2a right.
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Order takes effect in 21 days unless appealed.
I doubt it'll be appealed since it's a relatively minor 2a case and AG is overwhelmed by the Trump cuts litigation
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Status update for more online stuff like online permit to acquire and CCW:
HPD has requested funds to make the website and has contacted various vendors for quotes.
Same with Maui PD and Big Island PD.
Their deadline to go live is March 2026.
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Have an opinion on whether we’ll be able to go back to online registration for face to face purchases?
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Have an opinion on whether we’ll be able to go back to online registration for face to face purchases?
It'll likely be appealed and status quo for now.
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Guess I can put it out now that my attorney posted it, the State will appeal it to the 9th Circuit En Banc where there is a 80% chance of us losing. Need more Trump judges.
Current procedures will stay in place for now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1z6YgkGq/Screenshot-2025-04-02-110713.jpg)
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The 9th will hear the portions en banc about the in person registration and expiration of handgun permit to acquire.
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The saga continues...
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The saga continues...
Never ending story...
Sent from my SM-A156U1 using Tapatalk
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Never ending story...
Sent from my SM-A156U1 using Tapatalk
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/7IvytrwjHKYAAAAC/you-got.gif)
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Guess I can put it out now that my attorney posted it, the State will appeal it to the 9th Circuit En Banc where there is a 80% chance of us losing. Need more Trump judges.
Current procedures will stay in place for now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1z6YgkGq/Screenshot-2025-04-02-110713.jpg)
I'm more interested in learning how we can get access to HIFICO lawyers because they seem to be helping the same people over and over while ignoring people that contact them who aren't in their friend circle
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I'm more interested in learning how we can get access to HIFICO lawyers because they seem to be helping the same people over and over while ignoring people that contact them who aren't in their friend circle
This Yukutake lawsuit is the same one from day 1. It had multiple parts to it and registration and handgun permits are 1 part of it. So its' not a new lawsuit.
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Update:
The 3 judge panel ruled even with the online reg for FFL purchases, it's still unconstitutional to have to bring the gun in person to reg at HPD. This was still required for private party sales or out of state.
I'm sure HI will appeal to En Banc, the full 9th circuit But if they don't this would mean all registration can be done online.
The state also changed the pick up time frame of a permit to acquire from 10 days to 30. This also has been ruled unconstitutional by the panel.
The owner of Danger Close is also a plaintiff. I spend my money there since he's fighting for our 2a right.
https://youtu.be/fnYE-YOzagA
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I'm more interested in learning how we can get access to HIFICO lawyers because they seem to be helping the same people over and over, while ignoring people who contact them who aren't in their friend circle
Things to keep in mind before I get into this. Our attorneys primarily work on contingency, with no charge to the plaintiff except for some smaller fees. The attorney is paid by the County/State if they win a case in Federal court or settle it. If the case is lost or ruled moot, the attorneys don't get paid anything. Private practice civil rights attorneys are paid at the low end of the attorney's pay scale, so those who do it on contingency are a rare breed and do it for the cause. Even if the attorney "wins" the case, the State can get it ruled moot, canceling out the attorney's pay, resulting in our attorneys losing hundreds of thousands of dollars on their "wins," such as our Taser and Butterfly Knife lawsuits.
Option #1 Pay up front
The attorneys will take almost any case if they are paid for it. A slam dunk case with a fast settlement may cost $10,000. Something that goes to the 9th Circuit 3-judge appeal is $150,000. Going up to an En banc or SCOTUS appeal would be $300,000 or more. It may seem excessive, but a significant amount of research, briefs, expert testimonies, fees, and travel is typically involved over a decade for a SCOTUS opinion. For example, I just paid $2,200 today in this case for the 9th Circuit En Banc briefs formatting and printing fees, which is printing 20 copies of the court briefs. If the attorney wins against the State/County, the client might get their money back.
Option #2 Contingency Basis
Attorneys working on contingency are looking for:
1. Good chance of winning or settlement
2. A similar case wasn't previously lost with no major changes in the courts since then
3. A person with a good, clean, and moral background
4. A reliable and trustworthy person who will see the case through to the end, even if it takes 10 years (won't get in trouble, leave the state, etc.)
5. Has been proven to be a 2A supporter through selfless acts
6. Attorneys have the resources to take on the case
A good way to look at this is that we aren't taking cases to help the individual. We are doing these cases to help the 2A cause and community in general. I took on this case not to help myself, but to help the tens of thousands of others in Hawaii who struggle with the cost of living and can't take time off work to get a firearm. The changes we've made in this case have saved the 2A community millions of dollars in lost wages, mileage, and productivity.
For the slam dunk, easy and quick to settle cases, we'll take just about anyone. For complex cases that will run the course over a decade, we need people we can fully trust. In order to trust them, we need to know who they are. Know they are fighting for the 2A just as hard as we are. They are contributing to the cause not necessarily with money, but with their time, efforts, and sacrifice.
Most of the plaintiffs in the high-profile and long-running cases have done that and proven themselves. They've put in hundreds of hours of work and a lot of their own money to support the 2A and the attorneys. I put $15,000 into this case alone.
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Hey Todd have you considered a patreon or subscribestar? These are fascinating updates and I always learn a lot.
It might be good to compile them into an account where someone could easily catch up on the issues without searching through multiple threads.
It could also provide more consistent funding from those of us who would rather avoid getting involved with the legal system.
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Things to keep in mind before I get into this. Our attorneys primarily work on contingency, with no charge to the plaintiff except for some smaller fees. The attorney is paid by the County/State if they win a case in Federal court or settle it. If the case is lost or ruled moot, the attorneys don't get paid anything. Private practice civil rights attorneys are paid at the low end of the attorney's pay scale, so those who do it on contingency are a rare breed and do it for the cause. Even if the attorney "wins" the case, the State can get it ruled moot, canceling out the attorney's pay, resulting in our attorneys losing hundreds of thousands of dollars on their "wins," such as our Taser and Butterfly Knife lawsuits.
Option #1 Pay up front
The attorneys will take almost any case if they are paid for it. A slam dunk case with a fast settlement may cost $10,000. Something that goes to the 9th Circuit 3-judge appeal is $150,000. Going up to an En banc or SCOTUS appeal would be $300,000 or more. It may seem excessive, but a significant amount of research, briefs, expert testimonies, fees, and travel is typically involved over a decade for a SCOTUS opinion. For example, I just paid $2,200 today in this case for the 9th Circuit En Banc briefs formatting and printing fees, which is printing 20 copies of the court briefs. If the attorney wins against the State/County, the client might get their money back.
Option #2 Contingency Basis
Attorneys working on contingency are looking for:
1. Good chance of winning or settlement
2. A similar case wasn't previously lost with no major changes in the courts since then
3. A person with a good, clean, and moral background
4. A reliable and trustworthy person who will see the case through to the end, even if it takes 10 years (won't get in trouble, leave the state, etc.)
5. Has been proven to be a 2A supporter through selfless acts
6. Attorneys have the resources to take on the case
A good way to look at this is that we aren't taking cases to help the individual. We are doing these cases to help the 2A cause and community in general. I took on this case not to help myself, but to help the tens of thousands of others in Hawaii who struggle with the cost of living and can't take time off work to get a firearm. The changes we've made in this case have saved the 2A community millions of dollars in lost wages, mileage, and productivity.
For the slam dunk, easy and quick to settle cases, we'll take just about anyone. For complex cases that will run the course over a decade, we need people we can fully trust. In order to trust them, we need to know who they are. Know they are fighting for the 2A just as hard as we are. They are contributing to the cause not necessarily with money, but with their time, efforts, and sacrifice.
Most of the plaintiffs in the high-profile and long-running cases have done that and proven themselves. They've put in hundreds of hours of work and a lot of their own money to support the 2A and the attorneys. I put $15,000 into this case alone.
Cool story. Now now many plaintiffs over the past 5-10 years didn't come from the circle of friends that seem to be the same people always listed as the complaintant.
Unless you guys plan on refunding memberships, everyone that's a member of HIFICO should have the same access to legal consultation and assistance; especially if they are lifetime members.
And I highly doubt that seeking consultation to challenge discrimination against service connected veterans due to the waiver is "all about myself", so maybe think before you make dumb assumptions and statements, which I know is kinda your thing: especially when considering I talked to Alan on the phone about this years ago and he claimed he was already working on something that somehow never came to fruition.
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yep
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I wonder what sort of premiums a constitutional rights insurance company would have to charge in order to break even.
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My attorney posted this today on the difficulties of 2A attorneys winning and getting paid in the 9th Circuit. He continues to work on this lawsuit, but quit doing private practice lawsuits in the 9th Circuit because he can't make a living working for free. He now works for GOA where they pay a regular attorneys wages when he works on cases.
Please like and subscribe to his channel, he's working hard to get the info out. He also filed the lawsuit with GOA on NY Sensitive Places ban and recently filed the GOA Suppressor lawsuit due to the "big beautiful bill" passing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rucfAHFpPnY
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Just a reminder....
Because of Stephen and Alan's efforts in this lawsuit, it saved the 2A community in Hawaii a couple million dollars in lost wages, mileage, and productivity wasted having to go to the police station when they buy a firearm. It used to be 3 trips for every firearm aqcuired, now it is reduced to 1 trip in most instances. They are responsible for the current implementation of:
1. No firearms inspection/in person registration for firearms bought at an FFL
2. Emailed permits and registration
3. Late PTA/Registration at HPD on Wednesdays
4. extended the 30 day expiration date on handgun permits
5. and coming up, online applications for permits
This appeal will further enhance this and ensure the former requirements aren't put back into place.
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I have a en banc court date, January 16th in Pasedena.
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9th Circuit en banc hearing has been pushed back to the week of March 23, due to the SCOTUS Wolford hearing in January.
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does that mean they expect a ruling by then?
9th Circuit en banc hearing has been pushed back to the week of March 23, due to the SCOTUS Wolford hearing in January.
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does that mean they expect a ruling by then?
It's the court appearance which had to change since Attorney Becks SCOTUS hearing is at the same time. Ruling should come out at the end of 2026
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ah ok
got it
thanks
It's the court appearance which had to change since Attorney Becks SCOTUS hearing is at the same time. Ruling should come out at the end of 2026
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I have a confirmed en banc hearing date for my case, March 24th 1pm in Pasadena, CA. Come join us if you're in the area. Be there Monday to Thursday.
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I got the list for the 11 judge en banc panel and I have a decent chance of being able to win the appeal, which would be the first 2A win for the 9th Circuit en banc court. It's been a tiring seven year case, would be nice to end this with a win and close out my tenure with HIFICO. This was my first case when I started up HIFICO. Hearing is next week Tuesday.
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I have a confirmed en banc hearing date for my case, March 24th 1pm in Pasadena, CA. Come join us if you're in the area. Be there Monday to Thursday.
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I'll buy y'all a beer when I see you again.
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I got the list for the 11 judge en banc panel and I have a decent chance of being able to win the appeal, which would be the first 2A win for the 9th Circuit en banc court. It's been a tiring seven year case, would be nice to end this with a win and close out my tenure with HIFICO. This was my first case when I started up HIFICO. Hearing is next week Tuesday.
Thank you for all you have done, and continue to do, for your fellow citizens.
It has always been, and will always be, the individual who ultimately makes a difference in this world, and you exemplify that universal and all important principle.
Many thanks.
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I got the list for the 11 judge en banc panel and I have a decent chance of being able to win the appeal, which would be the first 2A win for the 9th Circuit en banc court. It's been a tiring seven year case, would be nice to end this with a win and close out my tenure with HIFICO. This was my first case when I started up HIFICO. Hearing is next week Tuesday.
6 DNC judges
5 GOP
But 1 DNC judge did make a pro2a ruling before.
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The Rhodes appeal will be the day after mine, concerning California's background checks for buying ammo. It has 8 republican appointed judges, 3 dem. That is an amazing roll of the dice and expected to be a win. Since my appeal is simpler, I should get a quick decision with the possibility of the first 2a en banc 9th win.
Or if I lose, it'll at least keep the Rhodes precedent in place
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChGS54m1kjo
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???
Or if I lose, it'll at least keep the Rhodes precedent in olace
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???
Place
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Place
Hey thanks for fixing the hypo!
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Hey thanks for fixing the hypo!
You're telcome
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Yukutake & Kikukawa v Lopez, 9th Circuit En Banc Hearing - Pasadena, CA.
Tuesday March 24 at 1130am HST
Tomorrow is the hearing, before the 11 judge panel, for my lawsuit regarding the requirement for inspections on non-Hawaii FFL acquired firearms at police stations and the 30 day expiration dates on handgun permit to acquire. This case has been going on for seven years. This lawsuit has already produced results saving myself and the people of Hawaii time and money:
1. Extended Wednesday firearms hours at HPD
2. Emailed permit to acquire
3. Remote registration for Hawaii FFL acquired firearms
4. 30 day (instead of 10 day) handgun permit to acquire expirations.
Please give a shout out to my Attorney Alan Beck who will represent us at the hearing tomorrow. You can watch live on YouTube at the link.
https://www.youtube.com/live/l8j2pz6H_Fc?si=0ZeVqczenX7w8LX0
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Yukutake & Kikukawa v Lopez, 9th Circuit En Banc Hearing - Pasadena, CA.
Tuesday March 24 at 11am HST
Tomorrow is the hearing, before the 11 judge panel, for my lawsuit regarding the requirement for inspections on non-Hawaii FFL acquired firearms at police stations and the 30 day expiration dates on handgun permit to acquire. This case has been going on for seven years. This lawsuit has already produced results saving myself and the people of Hawaii time and money:
1. Extended Wednesday firearms hours at HPD
2. Emailed permit to acquire
3. Remote registration for Hawaii FFL acquired firearms
4. 30 day (instead of 10 day) handgun permit to acquire expirations.
Please give a shout out to my Attorney Alan Beck who will represent us at the hearing tomorrow. You can watch live on YouTube at the link.
https://www.youtube.com/live/l8j2pz6H_Fc?si=0ZeVqczenX7w8LX0
Just for what has changed thus far, I am extremely grateful for this, thank you!
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(https://i.postimg.cc/nVR4cBr5/FB-IMG-1774376851035.jpg)
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Hearing was pushed back to 1130HST
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Hawaii’s Desperate Ninth Circuit Plea to Bring Back Judicial Scrutiny in Gun Rights Case
https://www.ammoland.com/2026/03/hawaii-ninth-circuit-plea-judicial-scrutiny-gun-rights-case-yukutake-v-lopez/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=82c21f3e78-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-82c21f3e78-20631517