2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: pacwire on June 23, 2022, 05:07:12 AM
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HMMM
FINALLY!!!! :thumbsup:
Let the Fireworks Begin!
Aloha!
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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You can be sure HI and the 6 other states will come up with some requirements that will make it extremely difficult to obtain a carry license.
They will do this knowing it is against what SCOTUS ruled and let it drag through the courts again. Such politicians and judges should be arrested and charged with contempt of court.
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You can be sure HI and the 6 other states will come up with some requirements that will make it extremely difficult to obtain a carry license.
They will do this knowing it is against what SCOTUS ruled and let it drag through the courts again. Such politicians and judges should be arrested and charged with contempt of court.
Agree. Kinda like the young'uns nowadays. They no like listen. They make their own rules.
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You can be sure HI and the 6 other states will come up with some requirements that will make it extremely difficult to obtain a carry license.
They will do this knowing it is against what SCOTUS ruled and let it drag through the courts again. Such politicians and judges should be arrested and charged with contempt of court.
That is how Hawaii government and it's supporters have always worked. Courts aren't for justice, they are a throttle, that is closed to an idle.
I'll be submitting my demand for a concealed permit which is presently legal under Hawaii state law. And I'll be preparing for a police commission
complaint when the a$$wipe police chief rejects my demand.
:grrr:
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Link to the 135 page opinion
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/20-843_7j80.pdf
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Young v Hawaii should be decided within days and remanded back down to district court. HRA's Livingston lawsuit is pending in district court.
The Chiefs could throw their hands up and say screw it and start signing permits today.
But likely is they'll wait for the district courts to conclude their cases and there will be time given to the counties to implement. But we're expecting to get permits within a year.
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I'll bet like how once tasers became legal, HI dicked around for 4 additional months, open carry permits will be much worst.
We have already seen this past legislative session that they wanted 1 to carry a taser when open carrying as well. Luckily, this bill died.
My money is that another lawsuit will have to be filed, like how we had to do on Maui. Then the Maui consul magically states that they would have legalized tasers anyways and the lawsuit is baseless.
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"We will work together to limit the risk this decision will create once it is implemented," said New York City Mayor Eric Adams.
"And we cannot allow New York to become the Wild Wild West. That is unacceptable.
We will not allow our city to live in fear that everyone around us is armed, "
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wow, just wow.
I guess that means he thinks most of the rest of the US is the wild west and everybody lives in constant fear.
What a pompous ass.
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We still have to defend against permit requirements and restricted places next legislature and we'll have to make a strong showing and start talking to legislators about it.
We also have current restrictions in the permitting system. Our permits are only good for 1 year, only good in the county issued in, and no reciprocity with other states.
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(https://c.tenor.com/sE-a9-rMXdcAAAAM/merica-murica.gif)
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You can be sure HI and the 6 other states will come up with some requirements that will make it extremely difficult to obtain a carry license.
They will do this knowing it is against what SCOTUS ruled and let it drag through the courts again. Such politicians and judges should be arrested and charged with contempt of court.
This is what we need to stop next year.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2800&year=2022
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Young vs. hawaii ruling expected on Monday.
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Thanks to corruption and rapidly declining quality of life Democrats are hugely unpopular. Now's a good time to go on offense and convince our family, friends, and coworkers to vote them out of office instead of just waiting for them to pass another bill that we can oppose.
Yeah we have 90,000 fake voters in Honolulu county alone thanks to mail in voting fraud, but that just means more opportunity to expose the fraud.
Time to seize that initiative
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https://www.facebook.com/TheHDF/photos/a.247449455300124/5773223786055969/ (https://www.facebook.com/TheHDF/photos/a.247449455300124/5773223786055969/)
(https://www.facebook.com/TheHDF/photos/a.247449455300124/5773223786055969/)
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(https://i.imgur.com/B6PUqi2.jpg)
Murphy's Bar and Grill
https://www.murphyshawaii.com/
Thursday June 23 5pm to 8pm
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We still have to defend against permit requirements and restricted places next legislature and we'll have to make a strong showing and start talking to legislators about it.
We also have current restrictions in the permitting system. Our permits are only good for 1 year, only good in the county issued in, and no reciprocity with other states.
I would hope that our legislative bodies read ALL the decision and not cherry pick out of it.
"...That said, because any permitting scheme can be put toward abusive ends, we do not rule out constitutional challenges to shall-issue regimes where, for example, lengthy wait times in processing license applications or exorbitant fees deny ordinary citizens their right to public carry."...
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That is how Hawaii government and it's supporters have always worked. Courts aren't for justice, they are a throttle, that is closed to an idle.
I'll be submitting my demand for a concealed permit which is presently legal under Hawaii state law. And I'll be preparing for a police commission
complaint when the a$$wipe police chief rejects my demand.
:grrr:
Are you feeling okay?
You used more than 25 characters per line.
#WellnessCheck
:shaka:
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"We will work together to limit the risk this decision will create once it is implemented," said New York City Mayor Eric Adams.
"And we cannot allow New York to become the Wild Wild West. That is unacceptable.
We will not allow our city to live in fear that everyone around us is armed, "
===============
wow, just wow.
I guess that means he thinks most of the rest of the US is the wild west and everybody lives in constant fear.
What a pompous ass.
New York is already the Wild West. What area does he live in?
Criminals and gangs already have guns they CC.
This is from CNN -- that bastion of Conservative, Extreme Right Wing bias:
New York City crime wave continues into 2022
as city rolls out safety plan
Major crimes in New York City spiked nearly 60% in February compared to the same
month in 2021 -- a large majority occurring in a small swath of the metropolis -- as
Mayor Eric Adams rolled out his plan to combat gun violence and crime in the city.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/05/us/new-york-city-crime-wave-2022/index.html
That article proves beyond any doubt that New York gun control is not working. Doubling down on a failed political stance is not the solution.
The SCOTUS decision was 6-3.
Just like others here eluded to, HI will create confusing and extreme restrictions to obtain a CC license.
In a concurring opinion joined by Chief Justice John Roberts, Justice Brett Kavanaugh
sought to portray the scope of Thursday’s decision as limited. The ruling will not bar states
from imposing any licensing requirements, Kavanaugh contended. There are 43 states,
he noted, that use licensing schemes that include requirements such as background checks,
firearms training, a check of mental health records, and fingerprinting. Such schemes are
objective, Kavanaugh explained, rather than granting “open-ended discretion to licensing
officials” and requiring “a showing of some special need apart from self-defense.”
https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/in-6-3-ruling-court-strikes-down-new-yorks-concealed-carry-law/
I can see the licensing law becoming effective as of 1 Jan 2023, and requirements for applicants will include training from a certified training source -- but it'll take 6 months to develop the criteria and actually have certified trainers available, and applicants will have to pay hundreds of dollars to take the classes and pass the test. Anything to deter as many as possible from applying.
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New York is already the Wild West. What area does he live in?
Mrs Barrels remarked that now more people are going to get shot.
Um..yeah...the BAD GUYS for once
She said she's not going out with me if I carry though. We will see how long that lasts. When the food shortages really hit we might not have a choice.
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Mrs Barrels remarked that now more people are going to get shot.
Um..yeah...the BAD GUYS for once
She said she's not going out with me if I carry though. We will see how long that lasts. When the food shortages really hit we might not have a choice.
So, she doesn't trust you to be a responsible, law abiding person who carries in public? But, she'll go out with you if you're unarmed knowing that complete strangers will be concealed carrying wherever you go?
That does not compute. :geekdanc:
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Mrs Barrels remarked that now more people are going to get shot.
Um..yeah...the BAD GUYS for once
She said she's not going out with me if I carry though. We will see how long that lasts. When the food shortages really hit we might not have a choice.
That's a tough one. IDK what our marriage would be like if Mrs. CMO was like that. Luckily, we hold the same views on the 2a and politics.
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That's a tough one. IDK what our marriage would be like if Mrs. CMO was like that. Luckily, we hold the same views on the 2a and politics.
God knew that If she was too perfect it would arouse my paranoia, so he made her just right.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EANZIh2U0AEf7G7.png)
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Read how the communist media plays word games with this news. But nothing you guys don't already know or haven't read before of course.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/06/23/breaking-news/supreme-court-expands-gun-rights-striking-new-york-limits/
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I can see it now. 90 day permits that cost $250.
40 hour state approved training and none exist.
Restricted areas would be all state owned properties.
This is just for starters. I would be really surprised if even 100 people got carry permits one year from today.
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Waiting to see what happens with the first guys applying for concealed carry permits. I hope the state and city honor the SCOTUS decision
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Waiting to see what happens with the first guys applying for concealed carry permits. I hope the state and city honor the SCOTUS decision
U mean u hope the chief honors the decision as he has the sole discresion to approve or deny apps.
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Friday we should get a ruling on Young. SCOTUS distributed a conference for Young today.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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Friday we should get a ruling on Young. SCOTUS distributed a conference for Young today.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
"SCOTUS distributed a conference for Young today."
What does that mean?
???
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"SCOTUS distributed a conference for Young today."
What does that mean?
???
They're working on it in HI.
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So here's some food for thought.
1) Current CCW, you need to provide the serial number of the gun u want to carry. This would mean that the CCW permit is gun specific. Compared to NV which is any handgun. NV used to be gun specific (blue cards), but they did away with that like 8 years ago. So some people would have to apply for more than 1 CCW permit because what if your main carry gun breaks, you cannot just carry another. ANd knowing HPD, I doubt they would issue 2 or more CCW permits.
2) What about joint pistols. Since HI law forbids anyone not on the reg from possessing a handgun when the owner isn't with them. And even though it doesn't state it in the law, HPD says you can only be joint on a reg with your spouse. So if 1 wants to carry this pistol, will HPD require the spouse to sign off on it? Or even issue 2 CCW permits for 2 different people with the same gun.
I expect HPD to make up their own rules as they go, despite what's in writing. Refer to the joint reg above or when they tell people who reg just a lower to bring it back once complete.
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I expect HPD to make up their own rules as they go, despite what's in writing. Refer to the joint reg above or when they tell people who reg just a lower to bring it back once complete.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/479/591/e6a.jpg)
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So here's some food for thought.
1) Current CCW, you need to provide the serial number of the gun u want to carry. This would mean that the CCW permit is gun specific. Compared to NV which is any handgun. NV used to be gun specific (blue cards), but they did away with that like 8 years ago. So some people would have to apply for more than 1 CCW permit because what if your main carry gun breaks, you cannot just carry another. ANd knowing HPD, I doubt they would issue 2 or more CCW permits. Currently there is no statute or law that states it is gun specific. That's another HPD make up rule. I'd ask to see the law or statute mandating it be gun specific. NV used to be gun specific and was in the NV revised statutes as such. Also there are people who haven't purchased a CCW firearm, but still want the permit for when they do. Or they are transient workers (Fed contractors as example) who haven't brought a firearm to Hi to register, but now will. And I still have my Blue Cards for posterity sake
2) What about joint pistols. Since HI law forbids anyone not on the reg from possessing a handgun when the owner isn't with them. And even though it doesn't state it in the law, HPD says you can only be joint on a reg with your spouse. So if 1 wants to carry this pistol, will HPD require the spouse to sign off on it? Or even issue 2 CCW permits for 2 different people with the same gun.
I expect HPD to make up their own rules as they go, despite what's in writing. Refer to the joint reg above or when they tell people who reg just a lower to bring it back once complete. Nothing new there. Like them telling people to weld a magazine in an AR pistol
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Waiting to see what happens with the first guys applying for concealed carry permits. I hope the state and city honor the SCOTUS decision
So the chief said on radio this morning it's not his decision.
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So the chief said on radio this morning it's not his decision.
Sounds like he's trying to pass the buck to avoid being blamed for the incoming lawsuits.
According to the LAW:
§134-9 Licenses to carry. (a) In an exceptional case, when an applicant shows reason to fear
injury to the applicant's person or property, the chief of police of the appropriate county may
grant a license to an applicant who is a citizen of the United States of the age of twenty-one
years or more or to a duly accredited official representative of a foreign nation of the age of
twenty-one years or more to carry a pistol or revolver and ammunition therefor concealed on
the person within the county where the license is granted.
So, either he's not educated on the law, or he's tacitly conceding that this part of the law has been ruled unconstitutional now without coming out and saying his role as stated in the statute has been changed.
Also, that last line I quoted shows that the concern others posted here about licenses only being valid in the county of issue is already in the statute, too. Hopefully that can be overturned as well. If you get a HAWAII CCW license, you are allowed to carry it in HAWAII, not just one county. Imagine states with a hundred counties enacting this restriction.
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Also, that last line I quoted shows that the concern others posted here about licenses only being valid in the county of issue is already in the statute, too. Hopefully that can be overturned as well. If you get a HAWAII CCW license, you are allowed to carry it in HAWAII, not just one county. Imagine states with a hundred counties enacting this restriction.
Baby steps. We first need to get CCW's issued. Or if the chief is waiting for a new law, then we need to make sure we remove that part. NV once was by county. And unlike HI, where the islands are pretty much tell you you're in a diff county (exclude county of Maui which are a a few islands), NV you had to look at the street signs. The font and color of the signs changed when you crossed into a diff county. This can be very confusing.
Also NV prior to 2016 was handgun specific (blue card). They changed their law to any handgun. I called a few LGS in Vegas and they all said the same. The law changed because it made sense. So no HIFICO like org there getting testimonies or signatures. They're via coconut wireless, which make sense why their recent few gun laws passed.
And prior to them being constitutional open carry, guys would get arrested for open carrying because someone saw their CCW'd gun in their waist band when they reached up to grab something off a shelf and their shirt rose up.
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"Today We had a chance to ask Honolulu Police Chief Logan when he's going to start issuing CCW licenses. His response?
"Were waiting right now for our (our) corperation councils, meeting with the attorney generals office (to) give an understanding what this means to the state of Hawaii. We understand what the ruling is for New York and what the supreme court ruled, so we're taking a look at whats our next step.".... "were waiting on the attorneys, the city, and the state to tell us what the next step."
Rick Hamada of KHVH radio then asked, "Will the state legislator have any role whatsoever in (err) with this decision and the implementation here at home?"
The Chief responded, "I believe absolutely. there are laws that need to be changed to incorporate this."
So basically, what the Chief is saying is altho the law CURRENTLY says he has discretion with who gets permits, and he can issue them NOW. He's not going to. He's going to willfully ignore the supreme court and deny the people of Hawaii the affirmed constitutional rights.
He wants the law changed; even tho the attorney generals office told the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in 2018 that Hawaii was ready and prepared to issue permits, that the only reason they hadn't is that nobody met the good cause standards set by the police chiefs.
With those standards now ruled unconstitutional, shouldn't they start issuing them? Did the Attorney general LIE to the 9th circuit? Did they commit perjury just to stop us from carrying firearms sooner?"
Check out the audio on the HIFICO FB page.
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[snip]
With those standards now ruled unconstitutional, shouldn't they start issuing them? Did the Attorney general LIE to the 9th circuit? Did they commit perjury just to stop us from carrying firearms sooner?"
Check out the audio on the HIFICO FB page.
All it really takes is for Ige to issue an executive order for the police department to ignore the "good cause" portion of the application process -- until the leg can fix the law that's on the books. Not much different than the COVID orders that waived the firearm registration requirement.
That's what the executive branch is SUPPOSED to do. They are to enforce the law AND uphold the Constitution. When there's a conflict between the two, he has the power to choose not to enforce a portion of, or the entirety of, a law.
They want to pretend they are stuck between the law on the books and the SCOTUS ruling, and only the state's lawyers can find a way through it.
I think they are hoping the lawyers can find a way AROUND it. In the meantime, delay, delay, delay ...
It would take a lawsuit to have an injunction issued which forces the state to stop following illegal statutes.
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U mean u hope the chief honors the decision as he has the sole discresion to approve or deny apps.
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The chief is an agent of the city so yes.
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And so it's begun.
New York Governor signs new law restricting where gun owners can legally carry.
https://youtu.be/tZAe2tekCwk
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The chief is an agent of the city so yes.
Ur hope is gone.
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So HI is the only state's AG not to send a letter to their police departments on obeying the ruling. Must be on Hawaiian Time.
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I watched on the news where they implied they could wait until next legislative session next year
I hope that is not true
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I watched on the news where they implied they could wait until next legislative session next year
I hope that is not true
I'm sure this is what will happen and they make it sound like a good reason. "We need to change the law" excuse.
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I watched on the news where they implied they could wait until next legislative session next year
I hope that is not true
The longer they drag their feet, the more of a chance for (1) lawsuits against the state/county, and (2) other states being sued and having their new gun laws ruled against, meaning HI lawmakers would be stupid to go down the same road.
If something is unconstitutional, they either have to halt the practice, or make changes to it immediately. If they don't change the law now, they are going to have to stop requiring any reasons for firearm carry licenses. To just do nothing until later isn't going to wash.
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The longer they drag their feet, the more of a chance for (1) lawsuits against the state/county, and (2) other states being sued and having their new gun laws ruled against, meaning HI lawmakers would be stupid to go down the same road.
If something is unconstitutional, they either have to halt the practice, or make changes to it immediately. If they don't change the law now, they are going to have to stop requiring any reasons for firearm carry licenses. To just do nothing until later isn't going to wash.
The state doesn't care. They have their lawyers and attitude is "F-U, sue us". They know it will cost us or someone money to bring a lawsuit. When I was on Maui, MAGS owner approached Alan Beck and offered to pay him right on the spot for a lawsuit because the county was dragging their feet. This was in March, 3 months after Tasers became legal. He turned it down and said he will call him later.
Then once the suit was filed, the county magically passed the ordinance to allow the sale of tasers and they said they were going to do it anyway, so a lawsuit wasn't needed. Sure, I'll believe that.
I'm going to assume that compensation was due up front regardless of the outcome, which is understandable. And which MAGS was willing to do, hence the "I'll write you a check right now".
So the point of this story is we went thru all of this with Tasers, handguns will be much more hoops to jump thru and I foresee additional lawsuits.
Today was the Roberts vs. Ballard (Taser) court case about compensation. The state is claiming that since Roberts has his taser, the lawsuit is moot. Nevermind the fact that it was filed in 2018 and SCOTUS ruled at that time tasers were covered by the 2A. But each time his case got stayed until another case was ruled on. So I can image the attorney fee's for 3 years of work (2021 is when the new law was signed). Basically HI is saying we changed the law, which makes his lawsuit invalid. So no $ for attorney fee's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auuXwclkjoM&fbclid=IwAR0BbB3j0FMSKbIkpxIPmmr_AZIBeMw6kKR7EYjwc0Z99ySjhmT4mDx1jWY
Fast Forward -2:05:00 mark (First hearing)
BTW, Stephen was at our BBQ yesterday.
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The state doesn't care. They have their lawyers and attitude is "F-U, sue us". They know it will cost us or someone money to bring a lawsuit. When I was on Maui, MAGS owner approached Alan Beck and offered to pay him right on the spot for a lawsuit because the county was dragging their feet. This was in March, 3 months after Tasers became legal. He turned it down and said he will call him later.
Then once the suit was filed, the county magically passed the ordinance to allow the sale of tasers and they said they were going to do it anyway, so a lawsuit wasn't needed. Sure, I'll believe that.
I'm going to assume that compensation was due up front regardless of the outcome, which is understandable. And which MAGS was willing to do, hence the "I'll write you a check right now".
So the point of this story is we went thru all of this with Tasers, handguns will be much more hoops to jump thru and I foresee additional lawsuits.
Today was the Roberts vs. Ballard (Taser) court case about compensation. The state is claiming that since Roberts has his taser, the lawsuit is moot. Nevermind the fact that it was filed in 2018 and SCOTUS ruled at that time tasers were covered by the 2A. But each time his case got stayed until another case was ruled on. So I can image the attorney fee's for 3 years of work (2021 is when the new law was signed). Basically HI is saying we changed the law, which makes his lawsuit invalid. So no $ for attorney fee's.
Fast Forward -2:05:00 mark (First hearing)
BTW, Stephen was at our BBQ yesterday.
The state can argue about attorney's fees all they want, but the primary contention in the case was resolved in the plaintiff's favor. That's the important take-away.
I think the attorneys can make a motion or file a new lawsuit to be compensated even if the original case never went to a final ruling or settled.
Isn't it up to the plaintiff to agree to drop their lawsuit? If the judge dismisses it instead of ruling in his favor (based on the new precedence), than that's something the judge did wrong. It's obvious one side prevailed. To pull the plug on the case before issuing a decision formally is bad practice when so many cases are taken by lawyers willing to work on contingent.
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Ur hope is gone.
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I disagree. I think the chief can take a reasonable amount of time to seek legal advice so as to comply with the ruling.
He may also be able to wait until the 9th circuit writes their opinion but I am not completely clear on how case law works in that interim period where the lower court has to change their ruling.
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I disagree. I think the chief can take a reasonable amount of time to seek legal advice so as to comply with the ruling.
He may also be able to wait until the 9th circuit writes their opinion but I am not completely clear on how case law works in that interim period where the lower court has to change their ruling.
I would assume you would disagree.
All the other AG's have already sent statements to their Chief's. With CA being the 1st one the next evening of the SCOTUS ruling. HI is the only one who's AG has done nothing. And if the Chief valued the bill of rights, he could easily take the SCOTUS ruling for face value and begin issuing CCW/OC permits since the sole discretion is with him.
There is no need to wait for the 9th to rewrite their Young ruling. This is a stall tactic. Next they will say "we need to change the law before we issue any carry permits", which I'm sure you will also agree with.
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https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/07/06/breaking-news/honolulu-police-department-received-48-applications-to-carry-guns-in-public-after-high-court-ruling/?fbclid=IwAR0WkZ2Q_XidgF_sDJhZdNXwj99k9yuKDWkgtxRKLLyKE3D3KRHgxzVYrbg
The last paragraph. Which they mean "how can we deny people and find a loop hole"
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I disagree. I think the chief can take a reasonable amount of time to seek legal advice so as to comply with the ruling.
He may also be able to wait until the 9th circuit writes their opinion but I am not completely clear on how case law works in that interim period where the lower court has to change their ruling.
The city sited that the AG is reviewing and the AG is awaiting a judgement on the Young case. Which we have no ETA on when the 9th will redo their ruling. So dragging feet as long as they can.
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I think all of us deep inside knew that Hawaii would drag their feet on this issue.
The only good(?) thing about the AG's dick move is that the whole nation is watching and confirming that Hawaii has indeed a corrupt, communist pig sty anti-American government, a kiss ass police chief, and a governer and AG hell bent on denying Hawaii's citizens the right to bear arms.
They really do have the "FU, so sue me....." attitude.
Maybe it's time to demonstrate and rally at the Capitol and Washington Place?
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I think all of us deep inside knew that Hawaii would drag their feet on this issue.
The only good(?) thing about the AG's dick move is that the whole nation is watching and confirming that Hawaii has indeed a corrupt, communist pig sty anti-American government, a kiss ass police chief, and a governer and AG hell bent on denying Hawaii's citizens the right to bear arms.
They really do have the "FU, so sue me....." attitude.
Maybe it's time to demonstrate and rally at the Capitol and Washington Place?
Unfortunately, no one cares about HI. And they control the media. So no harm to them by delaying permits.
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Unfortunately, no one cares about HI. And they control the media. So no harm to them by delaying permits.
And that's why so many people have an ainokea permit.
"Nobody does anything illegal in Hawaii"
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https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/07/06/breaking-news/honolulu-police-department-received-48-applications-to-carry-guns-in-public-after-high-court-ruling/?fbclid=IwAR0WkZ2Q_XidgF_sDJhZdNXwj99k9yuKDWkgtxRKLLyKE3D3KRHgxzVYrbg
The last paragraph. Which they mean "how can we deny people and find a loop hole"
From the article;
"The State of Hawaii Organization of Police Officers expressed concern about how the ruling will impact interactions between police and the public."
They will start to see a lot of ainokea permits and a total lack of trust, cooperation, and respect.
From what I understand there hasn't been a large request for permits. Probably less than a hundred state wide.
In a population of about 1.5 million, that is a drop in the bucket.
You stupid liberals fear that? We now know you are idiots.
Power drunk idiots.
:wtf:
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From the article;
"The State of Hawaii Organization of Police Officers expressed concern about how the ruling will impact interactions between police and the public."
They will start to see a lot of ainokea permits and a total lack of trust, cooperation, and respect.
From what I understand there hasn't been a large request for permits. Probably less than a hundred state wide.
In a population of about 1.5 million, that is a drop in the bucket.
You stupid liberals fear that? We now know you are idiots.
Power drunk idiots.
:wtf:
I think you might be right. If caught with a concealed firearm, your defense would be the law is unconstitutional. It doesn't even have to be appealed since there's already a ruling stating that fact.
Then you could sue for violation of your Constitutionally protected civil rights.
:geekdanc: :thumbsup: :geekdanc: :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
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And that's why so many people have an ainokea permit.
"Nobody does anything illegal in Hawaii"
For real. :shaka: If Hawaii's politicians and AG dilly-dally on the SCOTUS ruling or go the NY route and start imposing more and new restrictions the ainokea permit will become a reality.
And for all we know it already is. ;)
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And that's why so many people have an ainokea permit.
"Nobody HERE does anything illegal in Hawaii"
I corrected your last statement. Talking to different friends, I was surprised how many people they know that have been carrying for years in Hawaii. One of my former customers was carrying and shot and killed a guy a few years ago on Oahu. He was 76 and I think the other guy was around 30. Road rage situation and obviously the younger guy thought he would beat the crap out of the old guy. What he didn't know is the old guy had served time for a previous firearm conviction and would not hesitate to shoot you. Bottom line is don't get involved in road rage or arguments to prove you are right or preserve your "honor".
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I corrected your last statement. Talking to different friends, I was surprised how many people they know that have been carrying for years in Hawaii. One of my former customers was carrying and shot and killed a guy a few years ago on Oahu. He was 76 and I think the other guy was around 30. Road rage situation and obviously the younger guy thought he would beat the crap out of the old guy. What he didn't know is the old guy had served time for a previous firearm conviction and would not hesitate to shoot you. Bottom line is don't get involved in road rage or arguments to prove you are right or preserve your "honor".
This is 1 talking point used by the anti 2a people. I remind them that road rage/disagreements in general are 2 people fighting, 1 is assaulting the other typically. Which is illegal. So going "up and up" is bad.
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I think you might be right. If caught with a concealed firearm, your defense would be the law is unconstitutional. It doesn't even have to be appealed since there's already a ruling stating that fact.
Then you could sue for violation of your Constitutionally protected civil rights.
:geekdanc: :thumbsup: :geekdanc: :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
Matt Hoover (CRS Firearms Youtuber), his defense is now citing the SCOTUS ruling for his machine gun charge.
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I would assume you would disagree.
All the other AG's have already sent statements to their Chief's. With CA being the 1st one the next evening of the SCOTUS ruling. HI is the only one who's AG has done nothing. And if the Chief valued the bill of rights, he could easily take the SCOTUS ruling for face value and begin issuing CCW/OC permits since the sole discretion is with him.
There is no need to wait for the 9th to rewrite their Young ruling. This is a stall tactic. Next they will say "we need to change the law before we issue any carry permits", which I'm sure you will also agree with.
Wait while we change the law would never be a legal justification, thats silly talk. Yes, I suspect they will drag their feet but I am still going to allow for a reasonable amount of time. Not holding my breath but not going to jump on this yet.
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Wait while we change the law would never be a legal justification, thats silly talk. Yes, I suspect they will drag their feet but I am still going to allow for a reasonable amount of time. Not holding my breath but not going to jump on this yet.
Under normal circumstances, i agree that reasonable time is needed. Why this doesnt apply is because we have seen how HI drags its feet (tasers) and how anti2a they are. So giving "reasonable time" means giving them time to find a loop hole to deny people and their reasoning will be "for public safety".
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Matt Hoover (CRS Firearms Youtuber), his defense is now citing the SCOTUS ruling for his machine gun charge.
I've seen more YT channels explaining more of that case. Not only is the defendant using the recent ruling to get an acquittal, he's also filed a lawsuit to have the entire NFA law overturned as unconstitutional.
The number one argument is that the recent ruling dictates that the basis for deeming a law constitutional has been wrong all this time -- intermediate scrutiny -- which gives the government a massive advantage in making laws that should have been ruled unconstitutional. Every decision in the last 100+ years used the same analytical basis, making them possibly unconstitutional now as well.
The second argument is about the taxes imposed under NFA. Even in 1934, the lawmakers KNEW an outright ban on machine guns and suppressors was unconstitutional. So, they created a tax system, which involves a lengthy and difficult application process on top of the tax, as a means of having a defacto ban on such items.
2022 may go down in history is the year law abiding gun owners won our freedoms back. :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
Staying tuned .... :popcorn:
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Wait while we change the law would never be a legal justification, thats silly talk. Yes, I suspect they will drag their feet but I am still going to allow for a reasonable amount of time. Not holding my breath but not going to jump on this yet.
Just curious, suppose you decided to exercise your right to conceal carry and got busted,
What is a reasonable amount of time to spend in jail while waiting for the police chief to obey the law?
???
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Just curious, suppose you decided to exercise your right to conceal carry and got busted,
What is a reasonable amount of time to spend in jail while waiting for the police chief to obey the law?
???
Those are very technical questions and I don't have enough legal knowledge to be able to answer. I don't fully understand the process of when a decision or case precedent gets handed out and other cases get sent back to lower courts for them to re-decide.
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Those are very technical questions and I don't have enough legal knowledge to be able to answer. I don't fully understand the process of when a decision or case precedent gets handed out and other cases get sent back to lower courts for them to re-decide.
To sum it up, "I have no opinion, but want to post something because I'm bored."
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Reminds me of that scene from The Core. Repeate after me, I dont know.
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Reminds me of that scene from The Core. Repeate after me, I dont know.
Maybe it's the SciFi story, or the great cast, but that's one of my favorite movies.
I'll tell you how to save the planet if you let me have a cigarette.
:rofl:
I'm sure the exposure of a massive worldwide governmental cover-up appeals to you. :thumbsup: :shaka:
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Why must one have an opinion in order to discuss a question of legal procedure?
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The State of Hawaii usually (A pattern) Tries to be "politically" correct. Thus the Chief of Police will "punt" and put the "delay" on someone else.(Excuses if you ask me). However, once you put that in Writing (Aka Joe Logan to Andrew of HIFCO) and now the "written" response from the Ag to the Governor of the State of Hawaii, it seems that NOW he has to move although at a "snails" pace....Hmmm. Our"BLUE" State doesn't move fast as usual...Back to waitng....But i can seen some light at the end of the tunnel...Note: Never said how long the tunnel is.....
Aloha!
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Just curious, suppose you decided to exercise your right to conceal carry and got busted,
What is a reasonable amount of time to spend in jail while waiting for the police chief to obey the law?
???
10 years, that's how long Young has waited. Think of the benefits. Free housing, food and medical care.
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The State of Hawaii usually (A pattern) Tries to be "politically" correct. Thus the Chief of Police will "punt" and put the "delay" on someone else.(Excuses if you ask me). However, once you put that in Writing (Aka Joe Logan to Andrew of HIFCO) and now the "written" response from the Ag to the Governor of the State of Hawaii, it seems that NOW he has to move although at a "snails" pace....Hmmm. Our"BLUE" State doesn't move fast as usual...Back to waitng....But i can seen some light at the end of the tunnel...Note: Never said how long the tunnel is.....
Aloha!
I wonder if another lawsuit would speed that up?
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I wonder if another lawsuit would speed that up?
What HI is doing is changing the requirements b4 the 9th fixes their ruling. Thus Alan getting the shaft again ( not paid since this is a civil libery case). By HI delaying and being last to issue this, this tells me that the 9th is close to making a ruling.
They figured out what they had to do as to not have to pay. Or they would have taken at most a week to do what everyone else did after SCOTUS ruling.
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What HI is doing is changing the requirements b4 the 9th fixes their ruling. Thus Alan getting the shaft again ( not paid since this is a civil libery case). By HI delaying and being last to issue this, this tells me that the 9th is close to making a ruling.
They figured out what they had to do as to not have to pay. Or they would have taken at most a week to do what everyone else did after SCOTUS ruling.
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I am sure they are going over the language to find ways to still allow for as many restrictions as possible.
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10 years, that's how long Young has waited. Think of the benefits. Free housing, food and medical care.
You obviously haven't been in jail much. It sucks!
Although I will say New Orleans Parish prison, had good beans, rice and franks.
My charges were all dropped, I just came across cops with attitudes.
New Orleans cop with an attitude who'd have guessed.
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You obviously haven't been in jail much. It sucks!
Although I will say New Orleans Parish prison, had good beans, rice and franks.
My charges were all dropped, I just came across cops with attitudes.
New Orleans cop with an attitude who'd have guessed.
Long-ish story ... short punchline.
My brother got married while he was between jobs. He paid for the tux rental, church and reception expenses (reception at his rented house) using what little money he had in savings, but wound up writing checks he couldn't cover.
The judge gave him 6 months to pay something like $350 plus court costs. He wound up getting laid off from the next job he had and didn't have another lined up, so no way to cough up the money he was ordered to pay. Of course, asking friends and family never occurred to him I guess. In fact, I was in his car during college break, and I saw the papers on his console. When I asked what that was about, he told me he had it handled.
That was Spring Break. When I came home for Summer Break, my brother had been arrested for criminal contempt of court. He'd been locked up in the Mecklenburg County jail in Charlotte for a little less than a week, but my mother didn't have the cash to get him out for a few days. We drove up on that Friday, and my mom had the amount my brother called and told her to bring. He didn't include court costs for having been arrested, so she was almost $100 short, which I happened to have on me since I needed traveling money to go home. He got really lucky I was there.
The finale is he told my mother later that he's never going back to jail. It was the most uncomfortable, miserable and humiliating time of his life. For the first day, he had to sit in a cell wearing nothing but his undershorts. I can't imagine why unless he peed himself when the Sheriff Deputies showed up! :rofl:
So, yeah. Jail isn't something you look forward to unless you're homeless, need medical attention and/or haven't eaten a meal in over a week.
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10 years, that's how long Young has waited. Think of the benefits. Free housing, food and medical care.
You guys do know I was joking , right?
Aah, sarcasm is hard.
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You guys do know I was joking , right?
Aah, sarcasm is hard.
Some things aren't to made light of. It offends .... some people. :geekdanc: :crazy:
#Unprofessional
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Gomen nasai. I did not mean to offend.
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Gomen nasai. I did not mean to offend.
Say 2 "Hail, Hillarys", and perform one act of propaganda for a Democrat politician.
:wave: :thumbsup:
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So scotus tells 9th they got the CA lawsuits to hear using the new method
9th is being jerkoffs and handing cases back to the state courts instead of making a ruling(this highly unusual in general). Which when CA loses, will appeal and go back to the 9th. Basically dragging out mag limits, AWB, etc... for years.
Expect the same to happen here. Instead of the 9th making a mag ban ruling and HIFICOs mag suit being an automatic win, now it will most likely have to go to trial. Which means attornies gotta work way more. This is what HI wants. Cause just before HI loses, they will change the law. Which stiffs the attornies with the bill. Like how theyre doing with the taser case.
Justice/the court system isnt blind or fair. And politicians suffer no time or financial burden. Alan Beck should own a few lambos by now with all the hours spent. But he doesnt cause he getting the big shaft instead.
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Logan on the radio this morning.
1) People will need an NRA certified class, which most handgun owners already have. So hunters ed won't fly.
2) Shooting requirement is highly probable and NRA instructors can dictate it and sign off on it
3) He emphasizes the liability of using the gun again.
4) No word on pending apps
5) They are close to finalizing everything, and again expects to sign off at end of Aug at the latest. He stated again that he will be signing CCWs.
All the above is verbal and can change later. Lets see what's on paper and what the legislature does.
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Thanks for the update and everyone who kept the pressure up so far. Without it they would drag this out until the next legislative session, although that's still a possibility.
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And after LAW ABIDING people receive their permits, watch the blood flow as they shoot people for every slight or preceived offense. Well, that is what jerk offs like Rhoads, Lee, Hirono and others of their ilk will try to have the sheeple believe.
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And after LAW ABIDING people receive their permits, watch the blood flow as they shoot people for every slight or preceived offense. Well, that is what jerk offs like Rhoads, Lee, Hirono and others of their ilk will try to have the sheeple believe.
I imagine if we get a few good videos of justifiable self defense encounters then public opinion will rapidly shift in our direction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrh8Ra0W0-I
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I imagine if we get a few good videos of justifiable self defense encounters then public opinion will rapidly shift in our direction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrh8Ra0W0-I
"He shot my arm off!" :o
Play stupid games. . . ahhhhhsss what you get, dummy
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"He shot my arm off!" :o
Play stupid games. . . ahhhhhsss what you get, dummy
What a dumba$$ :rofl:
You bust in, point a rifle at the owner, and what did you expect? The owner to sing "Kumbaya"?
Where da hell did you think you were.....in Hawaii?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Logan on the radio this morning.
1) People will need an NRA certified class, which most handgun owners already have. So hunters ed won't fly.
2) Shooting requirement is highly probable and NRA instructors can dictate it and sign off on it
3) He emphasizes the liability of using the gun again.
4) No word on pending apps
5) They are close to finalizing everything, and again expects to sign off at end of Aug at the latest. He stated again that he will be signing CCWs.
All the above is verbal and can change later. Lets see what's on paper and what the legislature does.
It's my understanding that Hawaii does not honor NRA pistol classes taken out of state? I took a class in Texas years ago.
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What a dumba$$ :rofl:
You bust in, point a rifle at the owner, and what did you expect? The owner to sing "Kumbaya"?
Where da hell did you think you were.....in Hawaii?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Notice how it ends when the 2nd gun shows up (good guy)? Even though he's outnumbered by people and guns 3 to 1. They all fled like roaches.
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It's my understanding that Hawaii does not honor NRA pistol classes taken out of state? I took a class in Texas years ago.
The affidavit to purchase a pistol in HI is done by a NRA instructor in HI. So taking a class out of state doesn't count.
This is what Logan was referring to. So those who took hunters ed will have to take the HI NRA handgun safety course.
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"He shot my arm off!" :o
Play stupid games. . . ahhhhhsss what you get, dummy
Another shockingly sad story of a mostly peaceful person being permanently disarmed while still retaining his firearm.
Doctors are now reporting after successful life saving surgery was performed, there is still a 87 percent chance the shooting victim has completely lost his ability to both flex and show off his guns in the foreseeable future.
When hearing the prognosis the patient was so happy he wanted to clap with excitement but was unable.
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Another shockingly sad story of a mostly peaceful person being permanently disarmed while still retaining his firearm.
Doctors are now reporting after successful life saving surgery was performed, there is still a 87 percent chance the shooting victim has completely lost his ability to both flex and show off his guns in the foreseeable future.
When hearing the prognosis the patient was so happy he wanted to clap with excitement but was unable.
"He was a good boy. He just wanted to rob the place, not kill nobody. Wouldn't have been no shooting if the store owner just handed over the loot -- same way Walgreens and them other stores been doing! That man ought to go to prison for attempted murder! I hope he's got a big insurance policy, because we gonna sue his ass for MILLIONS!!"
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I imagine if we get a few good videos of justifiable self defense encounters then public opinion will rapidly shift in our direction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrh8Ra0W0-I
Was Kyle the shooter? :rofl:
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Another shockingly sad story of a mostly peaceful person being permanently disarmed while still retaining his firearm.
Doctors are now reporting after successful life saving surgery was performed, there is still a 87 percent chance the shooting victim has completely lost his ability to both flex and show off his guns in the foreseeable future.
When hearing the prognosis the patient was so happy he wanted to clap with excitement but was unable.
That was freaking awesome! Made my day. :rofl:
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"He was a good boy. He just wanted to rob the place, not kill nobody. Wouldn't have been no shooting if the store owner just handed over the loot -- same way Walgreens and them other stores been doing! That man ought to go to prison for attempted murder! I hope he's got a big insurance policy, because we gonna sue his ass for MILLIONS!!"
There's a video going around SM and I wish I could share.
Anyways, two (race withheld to not trigger anyone) guys in ski masks jump over a fence with the voice saying something like "two dudes jump over your fence, whaddya going to do". Then cuts to a shooter drawing pistol and Jerry M style shoots maybe 10+ shots. Then cuts to a (race withheld to not trigger anyone) guy with a shirt and photos of the two dudes in ski masks with "they were good boys" and sad music.
Made me :rofl:
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There's a video going around SM and I wish I could share.
Anyways, two (race withheld to not trigger anyone) guys in ski masks jump over a fence with the voice saying something like "two dudes jump over your fence, whaddya going to do". Then cuts to a shooter drawing pistol and Jerry M style shoots maybe 10+ shots. Then cuts to a (race withheld to not trigger anyone) guy with a shirt and photos of the two dudes in ski masks with "they were good boys" and sad music.
Made me :rofl:
Who is Jerry M.?
I don't get out much.
:shaka:
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Who is Jerry M.?
I don't get out much.
:shaka:
He's a famous competitive shooter. Know to reload a revovler in like 1 second and get all shots off, do reload and fire all those in seconds while getting hits.
He's Lena's M's dad, who's also a competitive shooter and sponsored by SIG.
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He's a famous competitive shooter. Know to reload a revovler in like 1 second and get all shots off, do reload and fire all those in seconds while getting hits.
He's Lena's M's dad, who's also a competitive shooter and sponsored by SIG.
https://imgur.com/a/yzd6skx
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Here you go.
https://youtu.be/WzHG-ibZaKM
How did he get so fast? Lots of practice. How much practice? I read somewhere he shoots about 20,000 rounds a month.
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Is there a site with the radio recording that we can listen to what Chief Logan said this morning?
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It's my understanding that Hawaii does not honor NRA pistol classes taken out of state? I took a class in Texas years ago.
It could be valid if the instructor went over Hawaii state laws.
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Is there a site with the radio recording that we can listen to what Chief Logan said this morning?
Look in Hawaii AG response to Bruen topic
pg3 for iheart radio link
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Here you go.
https://youtu.be/WzHG-ibZaKM
How did he get so fast? Lots of practice. How much practice? I read somewhere he shoots about 20,000 rounds a month.
Now I recognize the guy.
Thanks all!
:geekdanc:
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That was freaking awesome! Made my day. :rofl:
That's what you get for illegally parking in a Handicap stall. :shaka:
I like how the shop owner says "Pray" before he discharges. :rofl:
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Is there a site with the radio recording that we can listen to what Chief Logan said this morning?
Here's the link: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1061-rick-hamada-28867030/episode/ask-the-chief-w-hpd-chief-100523537/
It does not play on my computer.
Let me know if you discover the secret to making it work.
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Here's the link: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1061-rick-hamada-28867030/episode/ask-the-chief-w-hpd-chief-100523537/
It does not play on my computer.
Let me know if you discover the secret to making it work.
Try using FIREFOX
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Try using FIREFOX
I'm using Brave browser. Turned off "Shields" for that site, and it played fine.
p.s. Make sure to click the "Play" icon next to the podcast's title. Otherwise, it plays the latest podcast -- not the one you might want to hear.
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Try using FIREFOX
Wouldn't work in Dissenter, worked, sort of, in Opera.
The Oahu chief is deciding on and implementing "not restrictions, but procedures" (talk about euphemisms!!)... these include, so far, the NRA basic safety course... which most people took to buy firearms... AND "to qualify in some kind of shooting standard, by the NRA standards". Does such an NRA class (concealed carry) already exist? If not, is the NRA going to create such a course and train their instructors (to be ready sometime in 2024)? On the Big Island where would it be taught (no public range)? How many hours? What is the cost? How often will one have to take it qualify (for license renewal)? smh.
These people are so disingenuous (talk about euphemisms!! ;)). Just wait for the legislature to reconvene and see how many ways they try to come up with to continue to circumvent our fundamental, individual, God-given/natural inalienable rights to keep and bear arms. Disgusting! Evil!
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Logan on the radio this morning.
1) People will need an NRA certified class, which most handgun owners already have. So hunters ed won't fly.
2) Shooting requirement is highly probable and NRA instructors can dictate it and sign off on it
3) He emphasizes the liability of using the gun again.
4) No word on pending apps
5) They are close to finalizing everything, and again expects to sign off at end of Aug at the latest. He stated again that he will be signing CCWs.
All the above is verbal and can change later. Lets see what's on paper and what the legislature does.
the number 2, shooting requirement:
does that mean the hands on shooting portion of the handgun safety class?
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Wouldn't work in Dissenter, worked, sort of, in Opera.
The Oahu chief is deciding on and implementing "not restrictions, but procedures" (talk about euphemisms!!)... these include, so far, the NRA basic safety course... which most people took to buy firearms... AND "to qualify in some kind of shooting standard, by the NRA standards". Does such an NRA class (concealed carry) already exist? If not, is the NRA going to create such a course and train their instructors (to be ready sometime in 2024)? On the Big Island where would it be taught (no public range)? How many hours? What is the cost? How often will one have to take it qualify (for license renewal)? smh.
He also mentioned he would leave the "standard" up to the instructor,this is good news. NRA does have a CCW course. There currently is only 1 qualified NRA CCW instructor on Oahu that I know of.
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the number 2, shooting requirement:
does that mean the hands on shooting portion of the handgun safety class?
I think he meant separate from the hands on for the HI handgun safety class. But he probably will change his mind as it gets closer.
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I think he meant separate from the hands on for the HI handgun safety class. But he probably will change his mind as it gets closer.
like more training hours, and/or a qualifications test?
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That's okay. We can wait a little longer for them to figure this out. Plenty of time.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/8JrcyXvpOaFbFIatkm/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e472l0o0zecren8yydn5di2vk40luare6cumdn9qvlg&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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like more training hours, and/or a qualifications test?
What what he was saying, it sounds like all those who have a HI handgun affidavit would just need to complete a shooting test. His interview went something like this when asked about the training requirement: Many HI handgun owners already are qualified with the handgun safety class. Then he goes on to mention a shooting test that's up to the NRA instructor. He made no mention of 1 company being the sole company to administer the CCW training or HPD having to do it.
Refer to my OP about the shooting test. Again, keep in mind what he says will probably different from what will be written.
HIFICO sent a follow up letter to the pending CCW apps and it mentions the 16 hour training that NY is requiring. As of today, HIFICO has had no response from HPD from this letter.
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What what he was saying, it sounds like all those who have a HI handgun affidavit would just need to complete a shooting test. His interview went something like this when asked about the training requirement: Many HI handgun owners already are qualified with the handgun safety class. Then he goes on to mention a shooting test that's up to the NRA instructor. He made no mention of 1 company being the sole company to administer the CCW training or HPD having to do it.
Refer to my OP about the shooting test. Again, keep in mind what he says will probably different from what will be written.
HIFICO sent a follow up letter to the pending CCW apps and it mentions the 16 hour training that NY is requiring. As of today, HIFICO has had no response from HPD from this letter.
ok. thanks
I guess we just wait and see what kind of hoops we need to jump through exactly.
thanks for keeping on top of all this :shaka:
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Maybe it is a good idea for me to start applying for CCW now.
Something tells me at the end of August HPD and the Chief will be super busy.
I can just see it now. HPD announcing that their computers are down......
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Maybe it is a good idea for me to start applying for CCW now.
Something tells me at the end of August HPD and the Chief will be super busy.
I can just see it now. HPD announcing that their computers are down......
No idea why someone would intentionally wait to apply. But good idea. Apply now before it gets harder
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No idea why someone would intentionally wait to apply. But good idea. Apply now before it gets harder
Yeah, I tend to procrastinate a lot. Must be the "wait and see" gene in me.
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Maybe it is a good idea for me to start applying for CCW now.
Something tells me at the end of August HPD and the Chief will be super busy.
I can just see it now. HPD announcing that their computers are down......
I went to HPD today to register. There were some VERY interesting folks applying for CCW. Unfortunately, I was in line after on particularly "interesting" guy. That was pretty :crazy:
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Logan on the radio this morning.
1) People will need an NRA certified class, which most handgun owners already have. So hunters ed won't fly.
2) Shooting requirement is highly probable and NRA instructors can dictate it and sign off on it
3) He emphasizes the liability of using the gun again.
4) No word on pending apps
5) They are close to finalizing everything, and again expects to sign off at end of Aug at the latest. He stated again that he will be signing CCWs.
All the above is verbal and can change later. Lets see what's on paper and what the legislature does.
If you already own a handgun in the state of Hawaii you already meet the requirement written in the law.
(1) Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner;
(2) Appear to be a suitable person to be so licensed;
(3) Not be prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm; and
(4) Not have been adjudged insane or not appear to be mentally deranged.
Requirement 1 and 2 in his interview is not in the law. Him adding more requirements is not right.
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Requirement 1 and 2 in his interview is not in the law. Him adding more requirements is not right.
"Let's just make up our own laws and hope nobody notices."
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/useUF6IHpTqSc/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47udp6hh7hm7tvtvn4xjdho2usum1a4s1yyu5renab&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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Requirement 1 and 2 in his interview is not in the law. Him adding more requirements is not right.
These people do not care about, much less are concerned about, "right"... in either sense of the word.
Any "procedure" requirement to keep and bear arms is an infringement.
Obviously.
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Logan on the radio this morning.
1) People will need an NRA certified class, which most handgun owners already have. So hunters ed won't fly.
2) Shooting requirement is highly probable and NRA instructors can dictate it and sign off on it
3) He emphasizes the liability of using the gun again.
4) No word on pending apps
5) They are close to finalizing everything, and again expects to sign off at end of Aug at the latest. He stated again that he will be signing CCWs.
All the above is verbal and can change later. Lets see what's on paper and what the legislature does.
Kinda of rules out Hawaii county.
No public Pistol or rifle shooting ranges.
No NRA courses on a certified range.
This is all BS. I'm not inclined to comply anymore,
with criminals denying me my rights.
Perhaps they have too much money and too little to do
dealing with real criminals.
Instead they fuck with the guys trying to be upstanding
citizens.
They aren't police, they are soldiers in the employ of the single
party state, serving only the party.
>:D
.
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Kinda of rules out Hawaii county.
No public Pistol or rifle shooting ranges.
No NRA courses on a certified range.
.
Ok, so I got my NRA certified handgun course from a certified NRA instructor on Oahu in 2014. Is that still valid or are they going to say too long ago. Since then and now I did take handgun courses at Front Sight 5 times but since it wasn't from a Hawaii instructor in Hawaii it probably doesn't count.
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Ok, so I got my NRA certified handgun course from a certified NRA instructor on Oahu in 2014. Is that still valid or are they going to say too long ago. Since then and now I did take handgun courses at Front Sight 5 times but since it wasn't from a Hawaii instructor in Hawaii it probably doesn't count.
Theyre good for life.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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If you already own a handgun in the state of Hawaii you already meet the requirement written in the law.
(1) Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner;
(2) Appear to be a suitable person to be so licensed;
(3) Not be prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm; and
(4) Not have been adjudged insane or not appear to be mentally deranged.
Requirement 1 and 2 in his interview is not in the law. Him adding more requirements is not right.
Seems there is some wiggle room as to what constitutes qualifications to use a firearm in a safe manner so I think he is playing in that gray area. "Qualified" could be interpreted to mean something a little different for CCW than ownership.
Still not comfortable with him adding requirements but possible defensible.
I think a better way to do it from a legal standpoint would be to have the legislature pass a specific law stipulating some special CCW training than just interpreting it into the existing law.
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Seems there is some wiggle room as to what constitutes qualifications to use a firearm in a safe manner so I think he is playing in that gray area. "Qualified" could be interpreted to mean something a little different for CCW than ownership.
Still not comfortable with him adding requirements but possible defensible.
I think a better way to do it from a legal standpoint would be to have the legislature pass a specific law stipulating some special CCW training than just interpreting it into the existing law.
That is the correct way, not necessarily the better way.
One of the other landmark cases the SCOTUS just ruled on said agencies cannot broadly interpret vague laws and create rules out of thin air.
The chief is blatantly infringing on every applicant’s rights.
I’m no lawyer though
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Seems to me the Chief is waiting for the bosses to give him the green light.
I don't think he has to but then, this is Hawaii.......
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Seems there is some wiggle room as to what constitutes qualifications to use a firearm in a safe manner so I think he is playing in that gray area. "Qualified" could be interpreted to mean something a little different for CCW than ownership.
Still not comfortable with him adding requirements but possible defensible.
I think a better way to do it from a legal standpoint would be to have the legislature pass a specific law stipulating some special CCW training than just interpreting it into the existing law.
What if he adds in the NY style. 16 hours of training that they don't know what it includes yet. They are giving their DOJ until April 2023 to figure that out. Which means the 16hours was a random number. They're already being sued over this.
Or what if he adds in 25 yard distance like the armored car guys have to do? That is a great challenge for most shooters. Even 15yards can be challenging. And as we know, most self defense shootings happens within 21 feet.
For example: NV requires a 8 hr class and their CCW is valid for 5 years. The shooting test is at 3, 5 and 7 yards and you can use any caliber since their CCW is valid for any gun. Mrs.CMO got like a 95%. Then for the renewal, it's a 6 hr class. So basically, it's very difficult to fail. If our leg required a specific class, it should be easily passable.
What HPD is showing is that they never intended to issue any permits as the "qualification" has yet to be made up. This shows the corruption, which the chief is now part of. Because he could easily have signed the permits as soon as the AG made their statement. But he didn't. The new boss has failed his first test.
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What if he adds in the NY style. 16 hours of training that they don't know what it includes yet. They are giving their DOJ until April 2023 to figure that out. Which means the 16hours was a random number. They're already being sued over this.
Or what if he adds in 25 yard distance like the armored car guys have to do? That is a great challenge for most shooters. Even 15yards can be challenging. And as we know, most self defense shootings happens within 21 feet.
For example: NV requires a 8 hr class and their CCW is valid for 5 years. The shooting test is at 3, 5 and 7 yards and you can use any caliber since their CCW is valid for any gun. Mrs.CMO got like a 95%. Then for the renewal, it's a 6 hr class. So basically, it's very difficult to fail. If our leg required a specific class, it should be easily passable.
What HPD is showing is that they never intended to issue any permits as the "qualification" has yet to be made up. This shows the corruption, which the chief is now part of. Because he could easily have signed the permits as soon as the AG made their statement. But he didn't. The new boss has failed his first test.
Anything the Chiefs add to the process is illegal, period. The statute specifies the requirements and he AG letter removes the exceptional need requirement. His job is to enforce the law as written. No more, no less. The police departments cannot add additional requirements.
From the Justice Department -
Conspiracy Against Rights, 18 U.S.C. § 241
Civil Rights Conspiracy Statute - Section 241 makes it unlawful for two or more persons to agree to injure, threaten, or intimidate an individual in the free exercise or enjoyment of his or her constitutionally protected rights. What the Chief and his "bosses" are doing now
Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law, 18 U.S.C. § 242
Deprivation of Rights under the Color of Law - Section 242 makes it a crime for a person acting under color of any law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, including acts done by federal, state, or local officials within their lawful authority, as well as acts done beyond that authority, if they are done while the official is purporting to or pretending to act in the performance of his or her official duties.
Persons acting under color of law within the meaning of this statute include police officers, prisons guards and other law enforcement officials, as well as judges, care providers in public health facilities, and others who are acting as public officials. As the Chiefs are making up new rules or purposely delaying the issuance of permits in accordance with the AGs letter, aren't they depriving us of our rights?
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Right now the anticipation of what will happen in the next couple of weeks is mind boggling.
Will the CCW process go as it should and applicants start receiving their permits in a timely manner? If this is so, then there is reason to celebrate a 2a right that had denied us for all these years.
Will there be unreasonable demands, restrictions, training, and expense involved? There is sure to be outrage as it will be obvious these things are tactics implemented to discourage and deter CCW applications.
Just as the firearm acquisition procedures in Hawaii are meant to discourage and deter, it only makes sense that the CCW process will be similar in design.
I sincerely hope this is not the case and in a few weeks we will be celebrating a 2a victory. :thumbsup:
In the meantime all I can do is: :popcorn:
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Right now the anticipation of what will happen in the next couple of weeks is mind boggling.
Will the CCW process go as it should and applicants start receiving their permits in a timely manner? If this is so, then there is reason to celebrate a 2a right that had denied us for all these years.
Will there be unreasonable demands, restrictions, training, and expense involved? There is sure to be outrage as it will be obvious these things are tactics implemented to discourage and deter CCW applications.
Just as the firearm acquisition procedures in Hawaii are meant to discourage and deter, it only makes sense that the CCW process will be similar in design.
I sincerely hope this is not the case and in a few weeks we will be celebrating a 2a victory. :thumbsup:
In the meantime all I can do is: :popcorn:
If they do what Logan said last Thursday, then all 1 would have to do is submit their shooting test that any NRA qualified instructor can make up. But what would the deadline be is the interesting part.
I doubt what he stated on the radio will suffice.
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Anything the Chiefs add to the process is illegal, period. The statute specifies the requirements and he AG letter removes the exceptional need requirement. His job is to enforce the law as written. No more, no less. The police departments cannot add additional requirements.
From the Justice Department -
Conspiracy Against Rights, 18 U.S.C. § 241
Civil Rights Conspiracy Statute - Section 241 makes it unlawful for two or more persons to agree to injure, threaten, or intimidate an individual in the free exercise or enjoyment of his or her constitutionally protected rights. What the Chief and his "bosses" are doing now
Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law, 18 U.S.C. § 242
Deprivation of Rights under the Color of Law - Section 242 makes it a crime for a person acting under color of any law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, including acts done by federal, state, or local officials within their lawful authority, as well as acts done beyond that authority, if they are done while the official is purporting to or pretending to act in the performance of his or her official duties.
Persons acting under color of law within the meaning of this statute include police officers, prisons guards and other law enforcement officials, as well as judges, care providers in public health facilities, and others who are acting as public officials. As the Chiefs are making up new rules or purposely delaying the issuance of permits in accordance with the AGs letter, aren't they depriving us of our rights?
No one in power cares. I mean the AG/state just said FU to a judge with regard to in person registration. F-U sue us is their mentality. Then when they're about to lose, they change the law and stiff the attorney with the bill. This way no attorney would want to take on any more cases. Unless they're doing it based on principal like how Alan Beck is.
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On another thread I posted the response (dated July 25) I got to my concealed and unconcealed license application, and because that said new applications would be available "within 30 days", that it would only be two more weeks until they would be available. haha. Silly me. I thought maybe those full of sh*t lying *ssholes were for once being honest. duh. So I just now (August 11) go on the county police department website to check for a status update, and THEY HAVE THE EXACT SAME WORDING THERE! No, you can't make this sh*t up! So they are telling you, if you read it last week, this week, or in two weeks, it will be 30 days from then. omg. smh.
License to Carry
In view of the recent Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) decision in the case of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc., et al. v. Bruen, Superintendent Of New York State Police, et al, the police departments throughout the State are working with the Department of Attorney General and our County attorneys in revising the permitting process for concealed and unconcealed firearms.
The revisions to the current process will include amending the applications being currently utilized, therefore, if still interested you will need to reapply once the revisions are finalized. We anticipate the revisions being completed within the next 30 days and will post updated information on our department’s website.
Edited to add: Curiosity got the better of me. Called. Talked to "the captain". He knows nothing. Not when the applications might be available, who is making what decisions about the content/requirements or date of availability of the applications. "Just keep checking the website or call." LOL! What a circus!
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What if he adds in the NY style. 16 hours of training that they don't know what it includes yet. They are giving their DOJ until April 2023 to figure that out. Which means the 16hours was a random number. They're already being sued over this.
Or what if he adds in 25 yard distance like the armored car guys have to do? That is a great challenge for most shooters. Even 15yards can be challenging. And as we know, most self defense shootings happens within 21 feet.
For example: NV requires a 8 hr class and their CCW is valid for 5 years. The shooting test is at 3, 5 and 7 yards and you can use any caliber since their CCW is valid for any gun. Mrs.CMO got like a 95%. Then for the renewal, it's a 6 hr class. So basically, it's very difficult to fail. If our leg required a specific class, it should be easily passable.
What HPD is showing is that they never intended to issue any permits as the "qualification" has yet to be made up. This shows the corruption, which the chief is now part of. Because he could easily have signed the permits as soon as the AG made their statement. But he didn't. The new boss has failed his first test.
Laws can be written to be rigid or flexible. Rigid laws are easy to apply, and leave little room for someone to wiggle too much or too little control but the downside is they cannot allow for case by case, tailored responses.
Flexible language in a law can allow for a response more appropriate to the situation but the downside is that it could be abused and it could be applied inconsistently.
If a law says "be qualified to use a firearm in a safe manner" that is flexible language. The chief may not set a definition of "qualified" at the same level as you or I might but that doesn't make it corruption.
Does 8 hours of training count? Does classroom only training count? What about legal training so ensure not just that you can shoot but know when to shoot.? Does someone have to be a certain level of sight? Like it or not such questions are put to the police chiefs to decide.
I wish he would make up his mind faster though.
What do you think would be an appropriate level of training required to be considered qualified? I gave it some thought in the past and I was thinking of an 8 hour class that covered some fundamentals of shooting under stress as well as a legal portion that instructed people about when they can use force, where they can and cannot carry, interaction with police, etc.
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Hawaii has been fine with the existing training requirements to acquire a handgun, including the woefully inadequate Hunter's Ed classes (no live fire training or qualification test) and the much better NRA safety training (includes live fire "intro" but no actual range training or qualification test).
If that level of training has been adequate for all this time, how is it now an issue that anyone carrying their gun needs more training MANDATED BY THE STATE?
Anyone carrying a firearm has a duty to maintain proficiency on their own, and any initial training required to get a carry license is inadequate on its own. The owner needs to practice regularly as well as avail themselves of self defense classes that cover much more than how to shoot holes in a target.
Carrying a firearm makes you lethal.
Qualification testing evaluates if you've practiced and can pass a test with a minimum score.
Training makes you proficient.
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I guess I still have a question.
Why do I have to prove to to you
I have a God given right?
:grrr:
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Yep. It all comes down to personal responsibility of one's actions.
Something the government (especially the asshat politicians in Hawaii) are reluctant to give us.
In Hawaii, government is all knowing, and will have your best interests at heart.
Just make sure you are in lockstep with the rest of the sheep out there.
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Any "requirement" (or "procedure") to exercise a fundamental unalienable individual God-given/natural right is obviously an infringement (and the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence state that the role of government is to protect those rights)..
Twenty-five states, recognizing the above fact, currently have in place permitless carry laws (aka "constitutional carry"). People may legally carry, at a prescribed age minimum, without seeking any permission of any kind from any government agency.
In nine of those states the age for legal carry is 18 (with three more allowing service members to carry at 18).
Vermont has had permitless carry since 1793. Age minimum: 18.
No training requirement of any kind.
Where are all the disasters of the unlicensed unpermitted untrained carriers?
Literally millions of people carrying without having met any rules or "procedures" imposed by any government agency and virtually no "problems".
Maybe Hawaii is different and the people here who would carry are dumbasses and sheep, like the majority of the overall population (In the 2016 Democrat primary USSR-honeymooning Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton 70% to 30%).
The government here should make explicit why Hawaii residents need to meet "standards" and "requirements" and "procedures" found to be completely unnecessary in 25 other states, with no ensuing problems.
Otherwise they'd have to admit the real basis for their violations of our rights is that they are Marxist fascist authoritarians.
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Any "requirement" (or "procedure") to exercise a fundamental unalienable individual God-given/natural right is obviously an infringement (and the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence state that the role of government is to protect those rights)..
Twenty-five states, recognizing the above fact, currently have in place permitless carry laws (aka "constitutional carry"). People may legally carry, at a prescribed age minimum, without seeking any permission of any kind from any government agency.
In nine of those states the age for legal carry is 18 (with three more allowing service members to carry at 18).
Vermont has had permitless carry since 1793. Age minimum: 18.
No training requirement of any kind.
Where are all the disasters of the unlicensed unpermitted untrained carriers?
Literally millions of people carrying without having met any rules or "procedures" imposed by any government agency and virtually no "problems".
Maybe Hawaii is different and the people here who would carry are dumbasses and sheep, like the majority of the overall population (In the 2016 Democrat primary USSR-honeymooning Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton 70% to 30%).
The government here should make explicit why Hawaii residents need to meet "standards" and "requirements" and "procedures" found to be completely unnecessary in 25 other states, with no ensuing problems.
Otherwise they'd have to admit the real basis for their violations of our rights is that they are Marxist fascist authoritarians.
My theory: the Democrats of the ruling class (and probably many on the other side) have been "dumbing down" the nation through educational mismanagement and programs designed to take care of people rather than empowering them to be self-sufficient.
Now these same rulers are terrified of putting weapons in the hands of the dumbed-down population they created. Only bad things can come of that.
Just a guess.
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I wish he would make up his mind faster though.
What do you think would be an appropriate level of training required to be considered qualified? I gave it some thought in the past and I was thinking of an 8 hour class that covered some fundamentals of shooting under stress as well as a legal portion that instructed people about when they can use force, where they can and cannot carry, interaction with police, etc.
ADA comes into play if a blind person is denied.
An appropriate level of training should be the following: Not a felon. That's it.
To exercise a right, one doesn't need to show how good you are with it. I mean look at the anti 2a protest arguments. If 1 has to show proficiency, then most of them would not be able to protest.
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Is being forced to show your “qualified” consistent with the text, history, and tradition of the 2A? I think not.
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The right to keep and bear Arms.
PERIOD.
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https://youtu.be/mjB3_b8fo6w
This is what’s coming
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I got my ‘we still stalling your permit at this time’ letter from the chief today.
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ADA comes into play if a blind person is denied.
An appropriate level of training should be the following: Not a felon. That's it.
To exercise a right, one doesn't need to show how good you are with it. I mean look at the anti 2a protest arguments. If 1 has to show proficiency, then most of them would not be able to protest.
That would be interesting to see a blind person apply for CCW. There was a case in Hawaii where a legally blind person shot a home intruder. Would be hard to justify force for someone completely blind.
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That would be interesting to see a blind person apply for CCW. There was a case in Hawaii where a legally blind person shot a home intruder. Would be hard to justify force for someone completely blind.
You really should learn to use Web Search Engines. From 2014:
Carey Mcwilliams, 1st Totally Blind Person
In The USA To Acquire A Carry Permit
https://www.ammoland.com/2014/06/carey-mcwilliams-the-1st-totally-blind-person-in-the-usa-to-acquire-a-carry-permit/
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They guy’s name is literally Carey
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You really should learn to use Web Search Engines. From 2014:
Carey Mcwilliams, 1st Totally Blind Person
In The USA To Acquire A Carry Permit
https://www.ammoland.com/2014/06/carey-mcwilliams-the-1st-totally-blind-person-in-the-usa-to-acquire-a-carry-permit/
::) :stopjack:
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Logan was on the radio and asked if his approving CCW's by the end of August which he stated multiple times is still accurate. He said no. He said he cannot just change the requirements, there needs to be a public hearing, which will probably happen in Sept. So there is now no ETA on approvals. He did say that those who already applied will not have to reapply, but just add what ever is required. He also stated that he has not reviewed any apps. As of yesterday he said there are 333 CCW applications.
So goal post moving at it's finest. This will go down as the great scewjob of 2022. F
First Logan said he needs to wait for clarification. Then the AG completed this.
Then he said he needs to get all the other counties on the same page (Big Island already posted their CCW requirements via their Hawaii PD website)
Then he said he plans on approving at latest end of Aug (2 months after SCOTUS ruling and 6 weeks after AG memo about good moral character and exceptional circumstance)
Then comes end of Aug and he now says a public hearing needs to be held about the requirements.
I'll bet after this hearing, there will be additional hearing s and committees. And then he will state awaiting on Young being re-ruled. Basically a stall tactic until the next legislative session, which I expect CA/NY type of law to be pushed thru.
So I state again, CORRUPTION!!!!!
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Logan was on the radio and asked if his approving CCW's by the end of August which he stated multiple times is still accurate. He said no. He said he cannot just change the requirements, there needs to be a public hearing, which will probably happen in Sept. So there is now no ETA on approvals. He did say that those who already applied will not have to reapply, but just add what ever is required. He also stated that he has not reviewed any apps. As of yesterday he said there are 333 CCW applications.
So goal post moving at it's finest. This will go down as the great scewjob of 2022. F
First Logan said he needs to wait for clarification. Then the AG completed this.
Then he said he needs to get all the other counties on the same page (Big Island already posted their CCW requirements via their Hawaii PD website)
Then he said he plans on approving at latest end of Aug (2 months after SCOTUS ruling and 6 weeks after AG memo about good moral character and exceptional circumstance)
Then comes end of Aug and he now says a public hearing needs to be held about the requirements.
I'll bet after this hearing, there will be additional hearing s and committees. And then he will state awaiting on Young being re-ruled. Basically a stall tactic until the next legislative session, which I expect CA/NY type of law to be pushed thru.
So I state again, CORRUPTION!!!!!
This is complete bullsh@t.
The law is already on the books and there is no “rule making” required or needed.
Can the guy not be sued already?
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He stalling for the legislative session, where they can place ridiculous restrictions of “sensitive places” where it will be impossible to carry anywhere. Then it’ll be another decade plus to fight them in courts.
Right now I think it’s a slam dunk win. If he is ordered to issue permits, and the blood doesn’t run in the streets, we have a fighting chance of opposing draconian restrictions in the next legislative session.
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Can the guy not be sued already?
$$$ will be needed because the suit would be moot as soon as HI changes the law, even if years later. Example is the Taser and Young vs. HI cases.
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$$$ will be needed because the suit would be moot as soon as HI changes the law, even if years later. Example is the Taser and Young vs. HI cases.
What’s the point of even fighting them then. Oh well.
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I wish SCOTUS would have ruled favorably in Young vs. Hawaii, instead of remanding it back to the 9th Circuit who in turn kicked it further down the road. :grrr:
Oh well, wishing don't mean sh*t now.
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Concealed carry approved for one on Maui so far.
https://www.khon2.com/local-news/maui-issues-first-concealed-carry-permit/?utm_source=khon_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link
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Concealed carry approved for one on Maui so far.
https://www.khon2.com/local-news/maui-issues-first-concealed-carry-permit/?utm_source=khon_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link
Who’s cousin is dis?
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Concealed carry approved for one on Maui so far.
https://www.khon2.com/local-news/maui-issues-first-concealed-carry-permit/?utm_source=khon_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link
This makes a lawsuit even easier to win for Honolulu. What is the REAL hang up? Why are out civil rights being violated? Can’t use the arbitrary denial as an excuse anymore.
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Maui has this in their requirements
Firearms proficiency tests shall be taken with the firearm intended to be carried, and must be taken within 90 days of submitting your application. The test must be administered by a state-certified or National Rifle Association firearms instructor of the applicant’s choosing (attach instructor certification). Signed test results must include shooting scores. A pass/fail test result without scores is not sufficient.
What is the test? Why doesn’t Honolulu or other counties have this? Where in the freaking current law does this testing requirement exist?
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Start petition for release of firearm qualifying scores for EVERYONE in the state. See how emboldened some Chiefs are then…
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Maui has this in their requirements
Firearms proficiency tests shall be taken with the firearm intended to be carried, and must be taken within 90 days of submitting your application. The test must be administered by a state-certified or National Rifle Association firearms instructor of the applicant’s choosing (attach instructor certification). Signed test results must include shooting scores. A pass/fail test result without scores is not sufficient.
What is the test? Why doesn’t Honolulu or other counties have this? Where in the freaking current law does this testing requirement exist?
Looks like they are making things up as they go along. :grrr:
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Maui has this in their requirements
Firearms proficiency tests shall be taken with the firearm intended to be carried, and must be taken within 90 days of submitting your application. The test must be administered by a state-certified or National Rifle Association firearms instructor of the applicant’s choosing (attach instructor certification). Signed test results must include shooting scores. A pass/fail test result without scores is not sufficient.
What is the test? Why doesn’t Honolulu or other counties have this? Where in the freaking current law does this testing requirement exist?
Maui and BI may have violated the law when creating this.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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Any NRA instructors out there want to administer the “test” to me? 5 shots at 3 yards into a 4”x8” target. Lemme know the cost
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Maui and BI may have violated the law when creating this.
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Most other states require a live fire test for the permit
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Most other states require a live fire test for the permit
As in how they made changes, not abt the actual test
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Most other states require a live fire test for the permit
Not in Hawaii’s law. They’re making their own laws.
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Most other states require a live fire test for the permit
Most?
50% of the states (that's 25 of 50) have Constitutional / Permit-less concealed carry.
That means you can carry because you can legally own a firearm. No test required.
Try again.
p.s. I've had non-resident CCW permits from Utah, Nevada, Florida and Maine. The only one of those that required a live fire test was Nevada.
Most do require some sort of safety training course/affidavit, but there's no qualification test -- i.e. shooting for points. An approved NRA firearm safety or hunter's ed course is sufficient. Not the same as a CCW class with live fire qualification testing.
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Any NRA instructors out there want to administer the “test” to me? 5 shots at 3 yards into a 4”x8” target. Lemme know the cost
You should have accomplished the following if you took the NRA basic Pistol Course.
NRA Basic Pistol Achievement Target
Three five shot groups within a 4" diameter circle with 20 rounds
Level 1 (Minimum to pass)
5 shots/10 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits
Level 2
5 shots/15 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits
Level 3
5 shots/20 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits
NRA Instructor Training Qualification Target
20 shots/15 yards (45ft) 16 out of 20 shots in 6" group
Student must demonstrate weapons familiarity as well as follow all safety rules during qualification.
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You should have accomplished the following if you took the NRA basic Pistol Course.
NRA Basic Pistol Achievement Target
Three five shot groups within a 4" diameter circle with 20 rounds
Level 1 (Minimum to pass)
5 shots/10 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits
Level 2
5 shots/15 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits
Level 3
5 shots/20 feet Standing
Bullets that pierce the outside edge of the circle (4") count as hits
NRA Instructor Training Qualification Target
20 shots/15 yards (45ft) 16 out of 20 shots in 6" group
Student must demonstrate weapons familiarity as well as follow all safety rules during qualification.
I was just making up an arbitrary shooting course, since they can make up arbitrary, and extra, “rules” to exercise a right.
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BTW. This is what I found on the NRA CCW Course of fire.
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/bd8065f2-75f5-4bf5-8413-4a6420ba2e8a/downloads/CCW%20Qual%20Course%20of%20Fire.pdf?ver=1620079910398 (https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/bd8065f2-75f5-4bf5-8413-4a6420ba2e8a/downloads/CCW%20Qual%20Course%20of%20Fire.pdf?ver=1620079910398)
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NRA basic pistol tests 1 to 3, you have to repeat those for a total of 4 circles with no misses, doesn't have to be consecutive. So 20 shots minimum to pass each level if don't miss any.
Since the instructor selects the test to administer, they take on a little liability. Instructor should be able to explain to a court why they chose that test, in the unlikely event they may be deposed in a self-defense shooting incident.
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"I use what nevada uses (9th island), 3, 5, and 7 yards."
Should be sufficient. Esp since kokohead doesnt allow sillouette shaped targets.
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You can be sure HI and the 6 other states will come up with some requirements that will make it extremely difficult to obtain a carry license.
They will do this knowing it is against what SCOTUS ruled and let it drag through the courts again. Such politicians and judges should be arrested and charged with contempt of court.
You mean treason
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If all the police chiefs in the state choose to defy the Supreme Court by refusing to follow the law, does the rule of law still exist?
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/BoFtqmEwv6yJ26m9dF/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47izj5y2hm9ou400vfc4132e4wk37kar5hmu9vvgh4&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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From John Lott email today (sound familiar?):
New York has continued to be in the news with its new concealed handgun law going into effect in the next week. I discuss the law in a piece at The Federalist [https://crimepreventionresearchcenter.nationbuilder.com/r?u=VXhonUob8h_X67qZqTDLXV02LYddUCGh9lnudJnvjAqM_qJA3q6O9YEpMqE2k_gFSuY6bD7pGwjc8C1pEU8Elewh934kIgem1NiytfiR8VBdCGtvJw2U1OElKyBB7laFFwOQjCjcfNKI3zAYvYrFLedY-uGYWGONsa5S9c9MkYs&e=2b2e2b99b067c924d4ce27bad29a173a&utm_source=crimepreventionresearchcenter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=august_27_2022&n=15 (https://crimepreventionresearchcenter.nationbuilder.com/r?u=VXhonUob8h_X67qZqTDLXV02LYddUCGh9lnudJnvjAqM_qJA3q6O9YEpMqE2k_gFSuY6bD7pGwjc8C1pEU8Elewh934kIgem1NiytfiR8VBdCGtvJw2U1OElKyBB7laFFwOQjCjcfNKI3zAYvYrFLedY-uGYWGONsa5S9c9MkYs&e=2b2e2b99b067c924d4ce27bad29a173a&utm_source=crimepreventionresearchcenter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=august_27_2022&n=15)], and I explain how it replaces a “proper cause” or “good reason” requirement with an equally arbitrary “good moral character” requirement. It also will ban being able to carry a concealed handgun in virtually every place in the state. Even more bizarrely, New York Governor Hochul (D) just announced that the government will scour people’s social media accounts and ask their neighbors whether applicants are “espousing philosophies that indicate they have been radicalized.” On top of all that, the NYPD indicates it could take years before they get around to reviewing permit applications that they previously rejected under the “proper cause” requirement.
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NRA basic pistol tests 1 to 3, you have to repeat those for a total of 4 circles with no misses, doesn't have to be consecutive. So 20 shots minimum to pass each level if don't miss any.
Three five shot groups within a 4" diameter circle is 15 rounds minimum (if don't miss any.)
Completing level one as stated above is a "passing" grade.
I hold my class to a 7 yard (21 ft) level 3 success as stated above to pass.
Since the instructor selects the test to administer, they take on a little liability. Instructor should be able to explain to a court why they chose that test, in the unlikely event they may be deposed in a self-defense shooting incident.
"The FBI statistics show the average distance is around 7-10 yards with around 6 shots being fired." (That's FBI "shots fired" and not necessarily "ROT")
My level 3 test is the minimum average distance as noted by the FBI
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"The FBI statistics show the average distance is around 7-10 yards with around 6 shots being fired." (That's FBI "shots fired" and not necessarily "ROT")
My level 3 test is the minimum average distance as noted by the FBI
It's all relative and can be seen when comparing sizes of the target under different testing criteria.
A torso is about 16"x24", or recommendation by most self-defense schools is a 8" circle (vitals area).
The NRA level 1 target is 4" at 10', or extrapolated to 8" at 20' (about 7 yards). Downsides is it's not under time limits, no draw from a holster, nor realistic target.
The EIC Combat target HPD is proposing for the CCW test (I'm guessing) avg scoring area to pass is about the size of a sheet of paper. In NRA target terms, this is a larger area than the NRA level 1 target at 7 yards. But the time limits and drawing do make it more difficult.
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Targets scaled for 20 feet for reference comparing NRA basic pistol targets to a self-defense target.
(https://i.imgur.com/wfepbFS.jpg)
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Due to the prevalence of body armor, I shoot for da boto.
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Due to the prevalence of body armor, I shoot for da boto.
so Asians have a better chance of not getting hit...so waycist
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These are the Nevada live fire standards, which I personally find to be adequate and not excessive.
As of 10/1/2013 you no longer need to qualify with a semi-auto and revolver or specific gun.
You only have to qualify with one gun. By qualifying with any one gun, you are permitted to
carry any gun. The caliber and type (semi-auto or revolver) is irrelevant. When you qualify
with any one gun at the class, you can carry any gun you like!
You must score 70% at the following distances from the target...
3 yards - 6 rounds must hit target
5 yards - 12 rounds must hit target
7 yards - 12 rounds must hit target
Bring one gun (either semi-auto or revolver).
Bring 50 rounds of ammo.
Total rounds to qualify: (6 + 12 + 12) = 30 rds minimum. IIRC, anyone who fails to hit the minimum number of times at each distance is allowed to repeat that round/distance. Hence, the 50 rd suggestion.
https://www.ccw-lasvegas.com/target-qualification.html
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Maui has issued 9 ccws and 32 apps pending. Of the 9, 6 are not former LEO. 1 is and idk about the other 2. New maui chief is from vegas.
Does he not want to be part of any possible corruption lawsuits regarding denying/delaying ccws.
*edit
Also for LEOSA, as the requirement is to be done by Star Protection Agency, they were bought out by Allied Protection and they no longer offer this service and Star has been disolved. Which means all LEOSA are not doable. This is why the 1 LEO on maui took the ccw instead of doing LEOSA.
Wonder if retired LEO will now care cause it affects them until the new admistering agency is found.
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Targets scaled for 20 feet for reference comparing NRA basic pistol targets to a self-defense target.
(https://i.imgur.com/wfepbFS.jpg)
How much time is allowed though? A 3" group at 20' I could probably manage but under a short timed event? Much harder.
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June 23, 2022: SCOTUS issues Bruen, making Hawaii's illegal/unconstitutional carry requirements illegal/unconstitutional. Woohoo! They can't get away with that sh*t anymore!
September 26, 2022. It's now 96 days later and nothing has changed at all (except possibly on Maui, tbd... depending on "who" got licenses how...I'm betting "connected")... the bottom line: NO ONE in the entire state (with those possible "exceptions" on Maui) may bear a firearm outside their home for the purpose of self defense. Boohoo! They can get away with this sh*t for as long as they want! And they want "forever"!
>:(
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How much time is allowed though? A 3" group at 20' I could probably manage but under a short timed event? Much harder.
No time limit for Oahu. BI and Kauai have time limits. IIRC, it's like 3 seconds at 3yards to draw from concealed and fire 2 shots. Which for purse carry might be pushing it.
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No time limit for Oahu. BI and Kauai have time limits. IIRC, it's like 3 seconds at 3yards to draw from concealed and fire 2 shots. Which for purse carry might be pushing it.
That's about tangerine size at 7 yards. You good, right? 8)
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That's about tangerine size at 7 yards. You good, right? 8)
Grapefruit at 7 yards.
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Grapefruit at 7 yards.
Goalposts/target distance and fruit standard moved. . . ;D
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Goalposts/target distance and fruit standard moved. . . ;D
The popo kicked me out from selling fruits from the side of the road.
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If Logan and his political cronies want Oahu citizens to abide by the live fire qualification set forth in his unconstitutional Chapter 15 rules of Chief of Police, then:
He/they should state where one can go to take the qualification test. Would they allow us to use their range facilities? Would they allow qualified instructors to utilize certain action bays at KHSC so they can hold live fire qualifications?
Or are they gonna take the "ainokea" attitude, fostering confusion and further restricting Oahu citizens from trying to get permits?
Maui handed out some permits; how, who da hell knows. I too agree with others here that they probably were handed out to those "connected" and in the "clique".
Logan mentioned he would start handing out permits at the end of next month. How? Who da hell knows. These people he will issue permits to: are they in his "clique?" I mean, are they going to qualification ranges that we don't know of? Are they even gonna go live fire qualification?
Hmmmmmmmmm........... :grrr: Like we used to say to other squads in the platoon when we were in the military: "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over" ???
I not going forget what HNN reported Logan saying: I thought Hawaii would never issue CCW permits.
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If Logan and his political cronies want Oahu citizens to abide by the live fire qualification set forth in his unconstitutional Chapter 15 rules of Chief of Police, then:
He/they should state where one can go to take the qualification test. Would they allow us to use their range facilities? Would they allow qualified instructors to utilize certain action bays at KHSC so they can hold live fire qualifications?
Or are they gonna take the "ainokea" attitude, fostering confusion and further restricting Oahu citizens from trying to get permits?
Maui handed out some permits; how, who da hell knows. I too agree with others here that they probably were handed out to those "connected" and in the "clique".
Logan mentioned he would start handing out permits at the end of next month. How? Who da hell knows. These people he will issue permits to: are they in his "clique?" I mean, are they going to qualification ranges that we don't know of? Are they even gonna go live fire qualification?
Hmmmmmmmmm........... :grrr: Like we used to say to other squads in the platoon when we were in the military: "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over" ???
I not going forget what HNN reported Logan saying: I thought Hawaii would never issue CCW permits.
For Maui, 1 was retired LEO since the LEOSA program is on hold in HI because the sole company (Star Protection) who did it was bought and the new company dissolved Star Protection. 6 were non-LEO. IDK about the other 2 (9 total). IDK if the 6 had connections, but only that they're "regular folk".
If the old rules were obeyed, then HPD would have to conduct the qual, which would probably be at their ranges.
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For Maui, 1 was retired LEO since the LEOSA program is on hold in HI because the sole company (Star Protection) who did it was bought and the new company dissolved Star Protection. 6 were non-LEO. IDK about the other 2 (9 total). IDK if the 6 had connections, but only that they're "regular folk".
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Could you please tell us the source of your information re who the license recipients are or aren't (in general terms)? Maui PD refused my UIPA request re non-personal information about the first recipient.
By "non-LEO" and "regular folk" do you mean (retired or active) judges, prosecutors, and/or other higher level government employees? What, specifically, leads you to believe that some ordinary non-gov grunt schmo got a license?
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Could you please tell us the source of your information re who the license recipients are or aren't (in general terms)? Maui PD refused my UIPA request re non-personal information about the first recipient.
By "non-LEO" and "regular folk" do you mean (retired or active) judges, prosecutors, and/or other higher level government employees? What, specifically, leads you to believe that some ordinary non-gov grunt schmo got a license?
I cannot disclose my sources. I received more info, the 6 non-LEO are just that, regular folk. So not a retire or active judges spouse or child, not a LEO's child or spouse. So no hook ups. You can believe me or not, it's up to you.
Maui isn't a huge community, so I'm sure people there talk and can find out what each CCW holders occupation is. But basically, they're "regular folk".
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20 approved on Maui.
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https://youtu.be/-9NMt42il4Q
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20 approved on Maui.
20!! OMG!! On that tiny island that means that the gun violence rate must have increased by at least 200% in the past few weeks.
How many of those 20 have been arrested for "illegal shootings" and/or negligent discharges in Walmart?
Clearly, disaster waiting to happen.
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Big Island city proposal of NY clone sensitive places at request of their retiring Chief Ferrira. Dick move.
Bans:
Medical bldg and offices
Play grounds or where children are present
Anywhere that sells booze
Social gathering events
And the other federal bans like schools, gov bldg, etc...
Per the counsel member who proposed it "Kav (SCOTUS judge) left us wiggle room to where we can ban carrying of guns" Even though they meant in reasonable places. To anti 2a HI lawmakers, any street name with a vowel is reasonable place to ban.
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1 good news from this is that Stephen Stoumbough is working with GOA for the NY lawsuit about the above. No stay issued yet, but Stephen also helps Alan Beck for HI lawsuits. He was at the July 4th BBQ at KHSC as well.