2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Flapp_Jackson on July 04, 2022, 10:35:37 AM
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One report says at least 6 dead.
25 miles north of Chicago -- go figure.
https://youtu.be/eBmz8xz0rDo
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Family of 5 were among the dead.
Killer climbed a ladder and shot into the crowd from a building's rooftop.
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Law enforcement knew about him. I'm getting kinda sick of hearing the same old shit about these f**kn low life losers. All of them were known to law enforcement.
I don't have all the answers but instead of spending tons of resources and money in banning firearms to law-abiding citizens how about we spend those resources in nipping it in the bud with LE having knowledge of these bastards.
Start there. But the anti-gun nuts won't. Because it's not about public safety. They only say it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsfBczc7bS0
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I'm not giving any of those vultures any clicks/ad revenue. You guys will have to give me the cliff notes. I assume his KKK robe was just at the cleaners?
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Law enforcement knew about him. I'm getting kinda sick of hearing the same old shit about these f**kn low life losers. All of them were known to law enforcement.
And useful cannon fodder for the gun grabbing leftists.
This clown is clearly a NRA member that voted for Trump.
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An obvious product of the gender and sexual behavior confusion being taught in schools now.
When you want to get noticed for being odd, the whole Extreme Left agenda is hard to compete with! It's understandable going postal becomes an option.
This is why we need to force the government and media to put a lid on any mention of the name, motives, MO and social media posts of the "suspect". How much you wanna bet this was a copycat event? No specific motive, just wanted to make a name for itself.
I don't know, but that seems to be a likelihood with many young shooters.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaoIA9fhgRE
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Interesting and need to wait for more info.
For face value, he's at Trump events, so that would mean he's a Trump supporter. But then again his style isn't your usual Trump supporter (goth, punk, emo), but more Antifa. Then you have to add in that his style may be because he's an artist. This would be the first not GOP leaning active shooter in a while.
I would like to know what priors he has since the PD had his mug shot, or is that a drivers license photo.
If we minus the parade shooting, death toll in Chiraq is 7 dead and 54 shot over the 3 day weekend, which is the normal.
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Interesting and need to wait for more info.
For face value, he's at Trump events, so that would mean he's a Trump supporter. But then again his style isn't your usual Trump supporter (goth, punk, emo), but more Antifa. Then you have to add in that his style may be because he's an artist. This would be the first not GOP leaning active shooter in a while.
I would like to know what priors he has since the PD had his mug shot, or is that a drivers license photo.
If we minus the parade shooting, death toll in Chiraq is 7 dead and 54 shot over the 3 day weekend, which is the normal.
We need to get away from labeling evil and sick people who commit acts of violence as Left-wing or Right-wing. In almost all cases, that's irrelevant. Not everyone is a zealot for or against one political camp. This person didn't shoot up the US Capitol, a Federal Building, or any other Trump vs. Biden landmark. He targeted innocent people lining the streets to watch an Independence Day Parade.
Who gives a lick WHAT party or President he liked? The picture of him at a Trump rally dressed as Waldo (Where's Waldo?) doesn't say "Trump Supporter." It says, "Look at me pretending to be a Trump supporter at his rally."
From his tats to his "music" and now his apparent lack of any motive for the shooting (so far), trying to draw lines to some political entity is premature.
The Left is great at immediately drawing those lines with zero evidence to back them up. The first to say it usually gets the most people to listen.
We need to understand that being a Trump, Biden, Obama or Clinton voter/supporter is meaningless unless there's evidence (like a confession) that states the shooting was politically motivated. But then you have to ask whether you can believe a deranged mass shooter.
'Nuff said. :shaka:
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We need to be forgiving and tolerant to these people.
I say let them out of jail...after you tell the families of the victims the exact day, place and time that he will be released.
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We need to be forgiving and tolerant to these people.
I say let them out of jail...after you tell the families of the victims the exact day, place and time that he will be released.
I could see a closed "theme park" concept where all these mass shooters -- the ones still vertical when captured -- can be sent as part of a plea deal. It would be similar to the Escape from New York environment. Let them target each other rather than innocent bystanders and see how they like being the victim.
Of course, it would be on Pay-per-view, to offset the expenses. Less cost to the tax payers as opposed to a life sentence and free medical care.
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I used to write off people talking about the dangers of cannabis as more Reefer Madness, but recently I've started to pay more attention.
The strains and edibles are so strong that it's like elephant tranquilizer these days
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/he-was-an-isolated-stoner-who-completely/comments?utm_source=%2Fprofile%2F12729762-alex-berenson&utm_medium=reader2
(https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1c7ddf57-a948-441c-b007-b7c3b2db198b_1170x1083.jpeg)
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PD released a statement of their interaction with him in 2019. 1 was for suicide attempt, a mental health professional was called. 2nd was he threatened to kill everyone, so they took 16 knives he had away. No arrest made.
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I used to write off people talking about the dangers of cannabis as more Reefer Madness, but recently I've started to pay more attention.
The strains and edibles are so strong that it's like elephant tranquilizer these days
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/he-was-an-isolated-stoner-who-completely/comments?utm_source=%2Fprofile%2F12729762-alex-berenson&utm_medium=reader2
(https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1c7ddf57-a948-441c-b007-b7c3b2db198b_1170x1083.jpeg)
If he's a stoner, he should not have been able to buy the gun legally. I guess he LIED on the ATF 4473, meaning he broke Federal and State gun laws long before committing murder. I guess since he was allowed to possess a firearm, there's no medical marijuana permit on record for him.
Damn! Aren't laws supposed to PREVENT crime? {/sarc}
Sometimes it's not the physical effects and addiction, but the psychological ones. Not everyone reacts the same way to the same chemicals they inhale or ingest. Plus, over time, the tolerance he's acquired may mean he was using it more frequently and in larger quantities. He apparently had the means to buy it, since he was 22 and made over $100K doing his music.
Many mentally ill people self-medicate, in part because they don't admit they need help or don't want to seek help due to embarrassment, ego, etc. So, they choose drugs and/or alcohol to "quiet their minds".
Based on the social media posts released, he's deeply disturbed.
Since IL has red flag laws, and the signs were giant billboard-size with flashing lights, where were the people these laws expect will turn in these types of crazy people?
A petition can be filed by a family member, an interested third party, or by police
against an individual they believe to be an immediate and present danger to
themselves or others.
https://www.oflaherty-law.com/learn-about-law/illinois-red-flag-gun-law-explained-how-to-petition-to-remove-someones-firearm
Nobody?
Anybody?
Bueller?
Bueller?
Point: If this person can exhibit the behavior he did, and not one person saw him as a potential threat to public safety, then how the hell will red flag laws stop anyone else? (Hint: Laws don't stop crime, even if you make it a crime to not report someone before they commit a crime)
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PD released a statement of their interaction with him in 2019. 1 was for suicide attempt, a mental health professional was called. 2nd was he threatened to kill everyone, so they took 16 knives he had away. No arrest made.
And he was allowed to possess his guns legally.
This is the government in whose hands the anti-gun activists want us to place our trust and our lives.
It can't be any clearer. More government (via laws) is NOT the solution.
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And he was allowed to possess his guns legally.
This is the government in whose hands the anti-gun activists want us to place our trust and our lives.
It can't be any clearer. More government (via laws) is NOT the solution.
I'm sure the left will push red flag, unless Chiraq already has them. Cause you know, 3 years later, someone had no means of buying a gun legally and would have stayed red flagged for 3 years.
I found out from my friend who's from there that this is in Chicago. You know the strict gun laws city.
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I'm sure the left will push red flag, unless Chiraq already has them. Cause you know, 3 years later, someone had no means of buying a gun legally and would have stayed red flagged for 3 years.
I found out from my friend who's from there that this is in Chicago. You know the strict gun laws city.
I posted a link already about Illinois' Red Flag Law:
https://www.oflaherty-law.com/learn-about-law/illinois-red-flag-gun-law-explained-how-to-petition-to-remove-someones-firearm
It was passed into law in 2019.
Hard for the Left to push for laws that already existed 3 years before the shooting ... although, that's never stopped them before! :wacko: :geekdanc:
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I posted a link already about Illinois' Red Flag Law:
https://www.oflaherty-law.com/learn-about-law/illinois-red-flag-gun-law-explained-how-to-petition-to-remove-someones-firearm
It was passed into law in 2019.
Hard for the Left to push for laws that already existed 3 years before the shooting ... although, that's never stopped them before! :wacko: :geekdanc:
Thanks cause a FB acquaintance who was once ban all "assault rifles", is no ban all guns. Which I knew this would eventually happen. Which is why it's important that we do not give in to 1 banning of a type of gun. They will come for more.
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Here's a good follow-up report.
https://youtu.be/ybvAS6fUL_Y
Apparently a female witness saw him dropping something in a red blanket behind a Ross store. That something turned out to be the rifle used. Since he bought it legally, police were able to identify him quickly.
Thank goodness for stupid criminals. Leaving a gun he legally purchased near the crime scene -- a gun that can be matched to the victims via ballistic tests -- was not bright.
His fingerprints are in the state firearms owners' database from when he applied for a Firearm Owner ID Card (FOID). Unless he was careful to not leave any, fingerprints on the weapon, LE could have identified him nearly as fast as running the gun's serial number.
See? Gun laws do work. After 7 people were killed and many others wounded, Cops were able to find him about an hour after the shooting thanks to public assistance. The Cops put out the shooter's info on TV and the Internet, and someone reported seeing the shooter's car.
He'll have lots of time now to perfect his art. I bet the other inmates will love his rap -- and his red and green hair!
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We need to be forgiving and tolerant to these people.
I say let them out of jail...after you tell the families of the victims the exact day, place and time that he will be released.
I'm sure the families would love to have a "talk" with them.
News today said that Crimo's parents has retained the elite law services of the firm that represented that asshat R. Kelly or whoever he was.
Their son will be charged with 7 counts of First Degree Murder amongst some other charges.
Probably get life in prison? What a waste of taxpayer money.
I like your idea better. The families would probably agree also. "Yes, I would like to have a talk with Mr. Crimo. Let me have 10 minutes with him in this locked room".
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More info in the investigation.
The first time the Cops had contact with the shooter was when it was reported he'd told people he was going to commit suicide.
The second interaction was when he threatened to kill his family. Cops confiscated 16 knives, a dagger and a sword, which were all returned after the father claimed they belonged to him. The father also promised to have the son see a mental health professional.
The shooter was never charged with any crime even with the previous behaviors. When he wanted to buy guns, the father sponsored him to get a Firearm Owner ID, required by the state to buy a gun. Since he was under 21, the law required an adult sponsor him to have his FOID approved.
So, to me, this boils down to what's really a problem with red flag laws. The lawmakers (and the red flag proponents) believe the family is in the best position to observe and report the behavior of their family members. The problem is, most family members are hardwired to protect their family. So, it's less likely a family member will call the cops to report a son, daughter, or sibling.
The father in this case knew about all the problems his son was having, and about all the threats. Yet, he still enabled that behavior by keeping him out of jail and helping him buy guns.
Hindsight is 20/20. I bet there are thousands of other families just like this who think they are helping their family member by protecting them from the system lawmakers put in place to weed out the violent ones undeserving of the right to keep and bear arms.
So, what's the solution to these observers who don't want to red flag their own kin? These red flag laws are destined to fail at stopping violence, but they have, and they will, succeed at getting innocent people killed when the Cops show up to take their guns.
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More info in the investigation.
The first time the Cops had contact with the shooter was when it was reported he'd told people he was going to commit suicide.
The second interaction was when he threatened to kill his family. Cops confiscated 16 knives, a dagger and a sword, which were all returned after the father claimed they belonged to him. The father also promised to have the son see a mental health professional.
The shooter was never charged with any crime even with the previous behaviors. When he wanted to buy guns, the father sponsored him to get a Firearm Owner ID, required by the state to buy a gun. Since he was under 21, the law required an adult sponsor him to have his FOID approved.
So, to me, this boils down to what's really a problem with red flag laws. The lawmakers (and the red flag proponents) believe the family is in the best position to observe and report the behavior of their family members. The problem is, most family members are hardwired to protect their family. So, it's less likely a family member will call the cops to report a son, daughter, or sibling.
The father in this case knew about all the problems his son was having, and about all the threats. Yet, he still enabled that behavior by keeping him out of jail and helping him buy guns.
Hindsight is 20/20. I bet there are thousands of other families just like this who think they are helping their family member by protecting them from the system lawmakers put in place to weed out the violent ones undeserving of the right to keep and bear arms.
So, what's the solution to these observers who don't want to red flag their own kin? These red flag laws are destined to fail at stopping violence, but they have, and they will, succeed at getting innocent people killed when the Cops show up to take their guns.
Is there a time frame of when his dad sponsored him? If we do reverse math, he is 22 today. So in 2019 he was 19; which is when the cops showed up. But if he got the gun when he was 20, an entire year could have gone by and at that time he was "normal". Then 2 years went by and he did not commit any other crimes. So either way, gun laws don't work as well as the left promotes them to.
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Is there a time frame of when his dad sponsored him? If we do reverse math, he is 22 today. So in 2019 he was 19; which is when the cops showed up. But if he got the gun when he was 20, an entire year could have gone by and at that time he was "normal". Then 2 years went by and he did not commit any other crimes. So either way, gun laws don't work as well as the left promotes them to.
“The subject was under 21 and the application was sponsored by the subject’s father,” Illinois State Police said.
“Therefore, at the time of FOID application review in January of 2020, there was insufficient basis to establish
a clear and present danger and deny the FOID application.”
So, that answers the timeline questions.
4/2019 - The Intent to commit suicide was reported.
8/2019 - The "kill the family" threat was reported.
1/2020 - The father sponsored his FOID application.
Thus, two reports of intended harm to self or others in 2019, and his father signed the FOID form in January 2020.
So, not years, but about 4-5 months between threats of violence and getting a firearm FOID.
Plus, the "stoner" label friends gave him needs to be factored into the father's judgement as to his fitness to possess weapons, not to mention it makes him prohibited by federal statute.
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Seems like a fractured society is the main cause for mass shootings. Not guns. Society and family life has deteriorated. Social Media plays a big role too in my opinion. Not in mass shootings but in the deterioration of society as a whole.
Also seems like we need to amend current laws about medical privacy and minors. There has to be a way to cull out the dangerous nut jobs like these mass shooters from amongst the mentally ill. Their medical records cannot and should not be wiped out after reaching adult age just because they were a minor when they were under medical mental care.
If the above can somehow be implemented, then the FOID application sponsored by the scumbag's father would have been denied.
I may be cruel but I hope the father and mother gets held accountable also. Too many innocent lives were taken that day and altered the lives of so many forever.
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Seems like a fractured society is the main cause for mass shootings. Not guns. Society and family life has deteriorated. Social Media plays a big role too in my opinion. Not in mass shootings but in the deterioration of society as a whole.
Also seems like we need to amend current laws about medical privacy and minors. There has to be a way to cull out the dangerous nut jobs like these mass shooters from amongst the mentally ill. Their medical records cannot and should not be wiped out after reaching adult age just because they were a minor when they were under medical mental care.
If the above can somehow be implemented, then the FOID application sponsored by the scumbag's father would have been denied.
I may be cruel but I hope the father and mother gets held accountable also. Too many innocent lives were taken that day and altered the lives of so many forever.
People are referred to mental/behavioral healthcare for a variety of reasons. Not all are violent or express thoughts of violence. Since the rate of violence caused by diagnosed (key word) mentally ill is almost identical to the rate of violence among the "normal population" (undiagnosed?), I submit taking the rights from everyone in that group is statistically unsupported and ineffective.
The numbers tell us there's something other than mental illness alone causing these people to commit acts of violence. Were they left undiagnosed? Untreated? Ignored? Did their parents enable bad behavior by shielding them from consequences?
If we have 100K mentally ill people in Hawaii, and we identify 80K because they sought help, were referred by parents, spouses, courts, doctors, etc, that leaves 20K, or 20%, left to their own devices. Do they self medicate? Do video games, movies and Social Media feed some dark, violent fantasies they have? Are they unable to distinguish fantasy from reality? You see where I'm going ...
Is it the mental illness that causes violence, or does the mental illness make one more susceptible to other factors which turn them into killers? Given the stats, not all mentally ill are threats.
Just a thought.
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So no assault weapons used. Bye bye anti 2a talking point. Ive seen mutiple comments about banning the ar15 on yahoo comments.
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So no assault weapons used. Bye bye anti 2a talking point. Ive seen mutiple comments about banning the ar15 on yahoo comments.
Not going to contradict you, since "Assault Weapon" is not an industry term. It's a political category that California created in order to lump any scary-looking rifle into a single catch-all suitable for banning.
But, there's this, too:
The state police approved Crimo III’s request for a firearm owner’s identification card in January 2020.
The next month, he bought the Smith & Wesson M&P15 semiautomatic rifle authorities say he used in
the Independence Day mass shooting, Brandon Kelly, director of the Illinois State Police, said Wednesday.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/7/6/23197100/highland-park-mass-shooting-gun-mith-wesson-mp15-semiautomatic-rifle-fourth-july-parade-robert-crimo
I think I saw the "high powered rifle" in the Yahoo report you referred to:
https://news.yahoo.com/police-share-photo-highland-park-050132706.html
Apparently that picture is of a gun found in the shooter's vehicle when they arrested him.
The Highland Park weapon was recovered along the parade route -- an AR-15 pattern rifle.
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/highland-park-parade-shooting-investigators-release-photo-of-gun-found-in-robert-crimos-vehicle
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Not going to contradict you, since "Assault Weapon" is not an industry term. It's a political category that California created in order to lump any scary-looking rifle into a single catch-all suitable for banning.
But, there's this, too:
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/7/6/23197100/highland-park-mass-shooting-gun-mith-wesson-mp15-semiautomatic-rifle-fourth-july-parade-robert-crimo
I think I saw the "high powered rifle" in the Yahoo report you referred to:
https://news.yahoo.com/police-share-photo-highland-park-050132706.html
Apparently that picture is of a gun found in the shooter's vehicle when they arrested him.
The Highland Park weapon was recovered along the parade route -- an AR-15 pattern rifle.
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/highland-park-parade-shooting-investigators-release-photo-of-gun-found-in-robert-crimos-vehicle
Not going to contradict you, since "Assault Weapon" is not an industry term. It's a political category that California created in order to lump any scary-looking rifle into a single catch-all suitable for banning.
But, there's this, too:
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/7/6/23197100/highland-park-mass-shooting-gun-mith-wesson-mp15-semiautomatic-rifle-fourth-july-parade-robert-crimo
I think I saw the "high powered rifle" in the Yahoo report you referred to:
https://news.yahoo.com/police-share-photo-highland-park-050132706.html
Apparently that picture is of a gun found in the shooter's vehicle when they arrested him.
The Highland Park weapon was recovered along the parade route -- an AR-15 pattern rifle.
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/highland-park-parade-shooting-investigators-release-photo-of-gun-found-in-robert-crimos-vehicle
U know that i know the made up term.
Idk why they call it "ar15 style".
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https://www.ammoland.com/2022/07/highland-park-shooter-kel-tec-sub-2000-rifle/#axzz7YJiFdTH8
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don't matter what tool he used. That boy was sick and evil.
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Law enforcement knew about him. I'm getting kinda sick of hearing the same old shit about these f**kn low life losers. All of them were known to law enforcement.
I don't have all the answers but instead of spending tons of resources and money in banning firearms to law-abiding citizens how about we spend those resources in nipping it in the bud with LE having knowledge of these bastards.
Start there. But the anti-gun nuts won't. Because it's not about public safety. They only say it is.
It is a disturbing fact that often these people are known to law enforcement but the problem is often that there was not enough information to justify locking these people up or forcibly taking them to see a psychologist. The more I look at this the more it is clear that banning firearm types in general really isn't the answer rather banning specific people from owning firearms is where the focus needs to be. As with any other time the government is going to suspend or restrict citizens rights it should be done on a case by case basis, not blanket actions that affect everyone. The thing about this though is that this aspect is what red flag type laws are trying to address. Though somewhat imperfect a solution they seem to be one of the few gun violence solutions which could address the problem that cops knew of people like this but couldn't do anything.
Sometimes it was a failure to share information as well though and that is no excuse, that is even worse.
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Idk why they call it "ar15 style".
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Because that is probably the best description for the average reader to understand.
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It is a disturbing fact that often these people are known to law enforcement but the problem is often that there was not enough information to justify locking these people up or forcibly taking them to see a psychologist. The more I look at this the more it is clear that banning firearm types in general really isn't the answer rather banning specific people from owning firearms is where the focus needs to be. As with any other time the government is going to suspend or restrict citizens rights it should be done on a case by case basis, not blanket actions that affect everyone. The thing about this though is that this aspect is what red flag type laws are trying to address. Though somewhat imperfect a solution they seem to be one of the few gun violence solutions which could address the problem that cops knew of people like this but couldn't do anything.
Sometimes it was a failure to share information as well though and that is no excuse, that is even worse.
The problem is we hope those who make the decision on the case by case doesnt have an agenda. And as we have learned, it doesnt work out.
Maybe what we need is to bring back our respectful culture. Like 1960s and prior family stlye. Many things have torn this apart.
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When I got bit by a dog my grandfather scolded me that I didn't bite the dog back. Problem with modern society is that we let cowards like this prevail in a fight.
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I wonder if Social Workers can be part of the solution. Every so often they can do a "wellness" check on those patients under mental health care.
They might be able to help out in the "red flag" process. Frees up LE and ensures follow up checks.
Maybe that is all that it takes. Someone with a willing ear to listen and a person to talk to. It would probably take additional training for the social workers and maybe more of them will be needed.
Seems like social workers currently are far and few in between. And grossly underpaid and overworked.
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I wonder if Social Workers can be part of the solution. Every so often they can do a "wellness" check on those patients under mental health care.
They might be able to help out in the "red flag" process. Frees up LE and ensures follow up checks.
Maybe that is all that it takes. Someone with a willing ear to listen and a person to talk to. It would probably take additional training for the social workers and maybe more of them will be needed.
Seems like social workers currently are far and few in between. And grossly underpaid and overworked.
I like this idea. Cops are often this ear to listen to people but the nature of their job and position makes it difficult since the person is often going to be guarded when talking to a cop.
This type of idea has been one floated under the "defund the police" rally cry and is one I think might actually have some credibility to it.
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The problem is we hope those who make the decision on the case by case doesnt have an agenda. And as we have learned, it doesnt work out.
Maybe what we need is to bring back our respectful culture. Like 1960s and prior family stlye. Many things have torn this apart.
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This is true, anytime we give some people power over others we need to make sure they are trusted and that they don't abuse the power.
I wasn't alive in the 1960s so I don't know how polite the 1960s were compared to today but I think black people might dispute how polite the 1960s were.