2aHawaii

General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Heavies on July 22, 2022, 01:58:38 PM

Title: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Heavies on July 22, 2022, 01:58:38 PM
Why does one need to apply for separate permits per weapon one wants to carry? Is this “rule” made by the police chief, or is it somewhere in the HRS that I missed?
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: zippz on July 22, 2022, 02:04:42 PM
Why does one need to apply for separate permits per weapon one wants to carry? Is this “rule” made by the police chief, or is it somewhere in the HRS that I missed?

A bit vauge but HRS says qualified on the firearm.  Could be taken different ways, but Hawaii sees it as that serialized firearm.  Some.of these laws go back a hundred years.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 22, 2022, 02:26:58 PM
In my opinion ...

The rule to register a specific firearm for carry is a throwback from states that never required firearm registration, even for handguns.  The theory was, if a carry permit holder used their gun, the state wanted to ensure the owner didn't ditch that gun making it unable to be connected to a crime.  So, if the Cops asked to see your carry weapon, the serial number had to match or you become a suspect.

Hawaii uses a similar logic, even though all firearms must be registered.  Nevada used to have a rule that you had to qualify on a handgun with an action the same as you plan to carry -- semi or revolver.  Back then, you had the option to change carry weapons but only to one of the same action.  If you wanted the option to carry a semi and/or a revolver, you had to qualify using both types.

Nevada no longer requires you to do any of that.  You can qualify on on handgun and carry any handgun.

Quote
As of 10/1/2013 you no longer need to qualify with a semi-auto and revolver
or specific gun. You only have to qualify with one gun. By qualifying with any
one gun, you are permitted to carry any gun. The caliber and type (semi-auto
or revolver) is irrelevant. When you qualify with any one gun at the class, you
can carry any gun you like!
https://www.ccw-lasvegas.com/target-qualification.html
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Heavies on July 22, 2022, 05:53:22 PM
A bit vauge but HRS says qualified on the firearm.  Could be taken different ways, but Hawaii sees it as that serialized firearm.  Some.of these laws go back a hundred years.

Really really far stretch……
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 22, 2022, 06:22:40 PM
Another thing I just remembered.

The statute for concealed carry licensing used to restrict the licensee from carrying a magnum handgun.

I can see the police wanting to verify the gun someone chose to designate for carry complied with that and any other restrictions, just like they still require in-person inspection of firearms for registration in certain circumstances.

Basically, they don't trust people to know or follow the rules, so they make more rules.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: QUIETShooter on July 22, 2022, 07:49:49 PM
Silly rules made by silly people who are afraid of their own silly shadow.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Heavies on July 22, 2022, 09:50:20 PM
Another thing I just remembered.

The statute for concealed carry licensing used to restrict the licensee from carrying a magnum handgun.

I can see the police wanting to verify the gun someone chose to designate for carry complied with that and any other restrictions, just like they still require in-person inspection of firearms for registration in certain circumstances.

Basically, they don't trust people to know or follow the rules, so they make more rules.

I do not see that in the current law
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Heavies on July 22, 2022, 09:50:31 PM
 §134-9  Licenses to carry.  (a)  In an exceptional case, when an applicant shows reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property, the chief of police of the appropriate county may grant a license to an applicant who is a citizen of the United States of the age of twenty-one years or more or to a duly accredited official representative of a foreign nation of the age of twenty-one years or more to carry a pistol or revolver and ammunition therefor concealed on the person within the county where the license is granted.  Where the urgency or the need has been sufficiently indicated, the respective chief of police may grant to an applicant of good moral character who is a citizen of the United States of the age of twenty-one years or more, is engaged in the protection of life and property, and is not prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm, a license to carry a pistol or revolver and ammunition therefor unconcealed on the person within the county where the license is granted.  The chief of police of the appropriate county, or the chief's designated representative, shall perform an inquiry on an applicant by using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, to include a check of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement databases where the applicant is not a citizen of the United States, before any determination to grant a license is made.  Unless renewed, the license shall expire one year from the date of issue.
     (b)  The chief of police of each county shall adopt procedures to require that any person granted a license to carry a concealed weapon on the person shall:
     (1)  Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner;
     (2)  Appear to be a suitable person to be so licensed;
     (3)  Not be prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm; and
     (4)  Not have been adjudged insane or not appear to be mentally deranged.
     (c)  No person shall carry concealed or unconcealed on the person a pistol or revolver without being licensed to do so under this section or in compliance with sections 134-5(c) or 134-25.
     (d)  A fee of $10 shall be charged for each license and shall be deposited in the treasury of the county in which the license is granted. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1994, c 204, §8; am L 1997, c 254, §§2, 4; am L 2000, c 96, §1; am L 2002, c 79, §1; am L 2006, c 27, §3 and c 66, §3; am L 2007, c 9, §8]
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Heavies on July 22, 2022, 09:56:08 PM
“Be qualified to use THE FIREARM…. “

The one you already own and use safely, in my eye. I don’t see where they can restrict one permit per different firearm, one wished to carry concealed. (or open)
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 22, 2022, 09:57:18 PM
I do not see that in the current law

I know.  That's why I said "used to."  When I first started delving into HRS-134, I remember seeing the magnum restriction.  At some point in time, it was removed. 

Funny that the legislature would bother to update a law they had no intention of ever following, huh?
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Heavies on July 22, 2022, 09:59:34 PM
I know.  That's why I said "used to."  When I first started delving into HRS-134, I remember seeing the magnum restriction.  At some point in time, it was removed. 

Funny that the legislature would bother to update a law they had no intention of ever following, huh?

When wheel guns was the in thing, everyone carried a .357magnum.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 22, 2022, 10:17:56 PM
When wheel guns was the in thing, everyone carried a .357magnum.

Yes, and there was a belief that magnums were too powerful for the average person to shoot accurately, especially one that was made small enough for concealed carry.

I owned a .357 Magnum Charter Arms Bulldog Detective Model.  I only put about 15 magnum rounds through it -- just to remind me to always keep it loaded with .38+P.  OMG was that thing a recoiling monster!  Thankfully it came standard with Pachmayr grips.

Here's a really good, detailed discussion of the pros and cons of a .357 mag for carry.
https://aliengearholsters.com/blog/357-magnum-concealed-carry/

I can't swear to it, but I think the Hawaii statute was written to restrict magnum ammo.  So, you could carry your .357 magnum with .38 Special ammo.  Don't quote me on that.  I'm going off something I read years ago.  Wish I'd taken screen shots of the law every year just to have a reference for these kinds of changes.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 22, 2022, 10:40:04 PM
Ah-HAH!  I think I found where I might have read it.....

Quote
       (p) A license granted under this section shall only
5     entitle the licensee to carry concealed pistols or revolvers
6     with magazine capacities of ten rounds or less and that do not
7     contain magnum caliber ammunition."
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2009/bills/SB327_.PDF

Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: hvybarrels on July 22, 2022, 10:43:24 PM
(https://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/magnum1.gif)
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 22, 2022, 10:46:55 PM
(https://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/magnum1.gif)

Yep.  Magnum P.I. (old and new series) kept getting in my way of Googling the magnum ammo thing.

 :crazy:
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: QUIETShooter on July 23, 2022, 07:19:05 AM
What is it about Hawaii where the leaders are so afraid of every little thing.  The magnum caliber restriction is so ludicrous.

Meanwhile people are running around with swords hacking people's hands off.  What they going to do now?  Limit swords to a length of 12 inches? :rofl:
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: ren on July 23, 2022, 08:33:49 AM
What is it about Hawaii where the leaders are so afraid of every little thing.  The magnum caliber restriction is so ludicrous.

Meanwhile people are running around with swords hacking people's hands off.  What they going to do now?  Limit swords to a length of 12 inches? :rofl:

maybe because most of these leaders are Asian? Those words scare them.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: RSN172 on July 23, 2022, 08:56:24 AM
maybe because most of these leaders are Asian? Those words scare them.
Racist

So no can carry 22 Magnum?
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 23, 2022, 10:11:58 AM
Racist

So no can carry 22 Magnum?

From looking at the current laws, I don't see any magnum restrictions of any caliber.  That makes sense.  It looks like there were at least 2 Senate bills with the magnum ammo restriction, but neither made it into law.

Go with .22 Mag, if that's what you're comfortable shooting.   :geekdanc: :shaka:

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on July 23, 2022, 09:21:34 PM
It is stupid, as if we have 8 arms or something. Once you have two pistols, having more doesn't make you more dangerous.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: nickelzismoney on July 24, 2022, 03:28:28 AM
The application doesn’t cask for S/N, only caliber. So maybe we’ll get lucky (probably not) and be able to carry anything in the chosen caliber  ::)
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: QUIETShooter on July 24, 2022, 07:09:28 AM
Yeah, Hawaii Demokrat politicians so stupid.  Or it could be they just assh*les and doing it on purpose because they are just hopelessly and illogically anti-gun.

Take this CCW issue for example.  These asshats want you to apply for a CCW for EACH firearm you own that you might carry.  They will run you through basically the same process that you already went through to acquire your firearms.

So stupid.  They already have all the information on you that anyone in this whole f**kn world would need. 

One CCW permit with the information of all the firearms you list as CCW firearms is enough.  "They" know it but will "they" do it?  Of course not.

They are doing this on purpose.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: RSN172 on July 24, 2022, 07:52:24 AM
They need to keep HPD busy. Imagine processing even 2 permits EVERY year per ccw holder.  Most states have a 5 year term.  We got idiot legislators who want to make it 6 months.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: QUIETShooter on July 24, 2022, 11:30:30 AM
They need to keep HPD busy. Imagine processing even 2 permits EVERY year per ccw holder.  Most states have a 5 year term.  We got idiot legislators who want to make it 6 months.

Proof right there the f**kers are doing it on purpose.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: AmbuBadger on July 24, 2022, 12:29:18 PM
I don't expect anything from our politicians, but I figured-- at the very least-- the Hawaiian and Japanese population wouldn't vote to give the government more control given the history of how they treated them.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 24, 2022, 01:27:38 PM
I don't expect anything from our politicians, but I figured-- at the very least-- the Hawaiian and Japanese population wouldn't vote to give the government more control given the history of how they treated them.

Given the duration of Democrat rule in the state, it appears the subjects are happy with a one-party monarchy.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: 6716J on July 25, 2022, 08:15:03 AM
I don't expect anything from our politicians, but I figured-- at the very least-- the Hawaiian and Japanese population wouldn't vote to give the government more control given the history of how they treated them.

Given the thousands of years of history, Japanese/Asian culture is happy being subservient to their overlords. Yes, proud warriors (Samurai, Ronin, Ninja, etc.) but... always loyal to the master and their rule. That's why they had Emperors. not elected representatives.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 25, 2022, 08:36:44 AM
Given the thousands of years of history, Japanese/Asian culture is happy being subservient to their overlords. Yes, proud warriors (Samurai, Ronin, Ninja, etc.) but... always loyal to the master and their rule. That's why they had Emperors. not elected representatives.

Tie that to the very recent plantation lifestyles in the islands, and it's obvious that the days of expecting to be taken care of by your employer is a difficult thing to quit all at once.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: groveler on July 25, 2022, 11:20:17 AM
Tie that to the very recent plantation lifestyles in the islands, and it's obvious that the days of expecting to be taken care of by your employer is a difficult thing to quit all at once.
That is the real root of the politics in Hawaii.
I grew up in and succeeded in a very dog eat dog world
of Aerospace and academia.  If you weren't making money or
doing outstanding science, you were history.
I remember taking a class on how to terminate employees.
Hawaiian government doesn't recognize personal freedoms and the
resultant responsibilities.
It is too hard for them to be free men and women as that requires
they deal with personal failures.
You will fail. That is a fact of life.  How you learn from that failure
and how you recover, is a measure of your worth to the world.
Most people are afraid of that test.
 :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: WTF?Shane on July 25, 2022, 05:45:13 PM
The application doesn’t cask for S/N, only caliber. So maybe we’ll get lucky (probably not) and be able to carry anything in the chosen caliber  ::)

Serial number was required.
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: jerry_03 on July 29, 2022, 09:53:02 AM
reading this whole thread, if i understand it correctly, as of now you only can have one handgun as your carry gun. okay. so when you want to change your carry gun do you have to go through the whole application process again or just notify HPD of your new carry gun?
Title: Re: Why one one handgun per permit?
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 29, 2022, 10:01:43 AM
reading this whole thread, if i understand it correctly, as of now you only can have one handgun as your carry gun. okay. so when you want to change your carry gun do you have to go through the whole application process again or just notify HPD of your new carry gun?

Each gun needs it's own application. Many submitted more than 1 app so they don't have to come back.