Post by: hvybarrels on July 23, 2022, 08:07:54 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/22/authorities-searching-suspect-accused-sexual-assault-manoa/
(https://pics.me.me/the-police-protect-our-rights-no-they-dont-no-but-4646385.png)
Post by: ren on July 23, 2022, 08:30:35 PM
Post by: dirsh on July 23, 2022, 08:49:27 PM
Post by: nickelzismoney on July 23, 2022, 09:14:57 PM
Post by: 2ahavvaii on July 23, 2022, 09:19:58 PM
When seconds count, police are just 9 minutes away
9 minutes.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/22/authorities-searching-suspect-accused-sexual-assault-manoa/
Post by: QUIETShooter on July 24, 2022, 06:45:48 AM
9 minutes.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/22/authorities-searching-suspect-accused-sexual-assault-manoa/
Wow. You can almost cook rice in that time frame.
Post by: RSN172 on July 24, 2022, 07:46:33 AM
When seconds count, police are just 9 minutes away45 to 60 minutes where I live. When I saw the video on the news, the first thing I thought was she did not have her head on a swivel and was preoccupied with her phone. The article confirmed my suspicion. People need to put their phone away when driving and walking.
Post by: groveler on July 24, 2022, 08:21:56 AM
9 minutes.Kind of like RS
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/22/authorities-searching-suspect-accused-sexual-assault-manoa/
I could shoot them, borrow the neighbors backhoe, bury them, and clean up before the cops get here.
:shaka:
That is the big problem with Honolulu making laws for Hawaii, they don't take into account what the outer islands are like
geographically, economically, and socially.
:grrr:
Post by: robtmc on July 24, 2022, 08:50:10 AM
That is the big problem with Honolulu making laws for Hawaii, they don't take into account what the outer islands are like
geographically, economically, and socially.
About what the big liberal mainland cities do to the other more conservative counties in their states.
On the BI, you have liberal infested Hilo running everything.
Post by: oldfart on July 24, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
9 minutes.===========
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/22/authorities-searching-suspect-accused-sexual-assault-manoa/
The in-laws of my coworker lives right there.
I gave her a pepper spray last year.
Hawaii is a small place.
Post by: groveler on July 24, 2022, 10:46:51 AM
About what the big liberal mainland cities do to the other more conservative counties in their states.I could not agree with you more.
On the BI, you have liberal infested Hilo running everything.
The purpose of the Federal electoral college and the way the US Senate was originally set-up
was to prevent the tyranny of the large cities. The founding fathers saw what London, Paris, Rome, et al
did to rural areas.
USA did not put those protections in at the state level. For example the Hawaii Senate has no use, name one
thing they do to improve the government as a check on the Legislators "Mob rule". Honolulu thinks laws that are
good for it, a large Metropolitan area, is perfect for the BI a large rural area. NOT!
The large metropolitan areas rule the rural areas as the "city" people see fit at the state level. Although Hilo is not a big town!
I'd trust the crooked BI council critters to represent my 2A interests more than I'd Trust Karl Rhodes et al of Oahu to look
out for me. I know where my local council critters live and they know it.
No threats, just making a comment as to how we are neighbors.
:wave:
Post by: robtmc on July 24, 2022, 12:45:47 PM
"I'd trust the crooked BI council critters to represent my 2A interests "
Do not forget the BI has that turd Canoe-ha in the useless senate:
The Senate of the State of Hawaii just passed a resolution asking the United States Congress to repeal the Second Amendment or to amend it by clarifying that the right to bear arms is a “collective” right instead of an “individual” constitutional right
Of course, the bastard is running unopposed for election. Saw him in my gym moths ago, and looked nervous when I spotted him.
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 25, 2022, 11:53:38 AM
Post by: ren on July 28, 2022, 08:53:17 PM
Reminds me of the testimony from the female then Ros Baker tried to shut her down.
Post by: hvybarrels on July 28, 2022, 10:59:07 PM
https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/police-seeking-help-in-finding-suspect-wanted-for-attempted-sex-assault-with-knife/article_f8a55302-0eff-11ed-addb-e3d6388dc880.html (https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/police-seeking-help-in-finding-suspect-wanted-for-attempted-sex-assault-with-knife/article_f8a55302-0eff-11ed-addb-e3d6388dc880.html)
Reminds me of the testimony from the female then Ros Baker tried to shut her down.
Ever since that day I exclusively use the terms Outer Islands and Mainland
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 29, 2022, 08:35:26 AM
Ever since that day I exclusively use the terms Outer Islands and Mainland
THEY'RE OUR NEIGHBOR ISLANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: drck1000 on July 29, 2022, 09:52:01 AM
Ever since that day I exclusively use the terms Outer Islands and Mainlandwere you there the time she cut off HIFICO/John in the middle of his testimony?
She wasn't paying attention, but she sure heard the "outer" part ::)
Post by: oldfart on July 29, 2022, 11:08:52 PM
Who is Scott Ishihara and does his self defense company teach gun techniques as well as hand-to-hand combat?
Anybody acquainted with this company? Just curious.
see the logo behind him during this news interview...
(https://i.postimg.cc/d311r1nb/gethomesafe.png) (https://postimages.org/)
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/30/authorities-urge-vigilance-following-string-attempted-sex-assaults-metro-honolulu/
Post by: Rhed on July 29, 2022, 11:51:33 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on July 31, 2022, 09:04:50 AM
No charges filed in road rage attack caught on camera.
No consequences = more crime
Would charges be filed if there was video of the 70yo successfully defending himself with a ccw?
Post by: RSN172 on July 31, 2022, 09:32:20 AM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/31/police-arrest-suspect-accused-beating-elderly-man-apparent-road-rage-attack-laie/Of course, there would. Brandishing if he didn't shoot. Attempted or 2nd degree murder, depending on the outcome, if he did shoot. You are not allowed to defend yourself here. This is Hawaii. Com'n man.
No charges filed in road rage attack caught on camera.
No consequences = more crime
Would charges be filed if there was video of the 70yo successfully defending himself with a ccw?
Post by: Direjackalope on July 31, 2022, 10:42:57 AM
Post by: groveler on July 31, 2022, 11:07:23 AM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/31/police-arrest-suspect-accused-beating-elderly-man-apparent-road-rage-attack-laie/Curious.
No charges filed in road rage attack caught on camera.
No consequences = more crime
Would charges be filed if there was video of the 70yo successfully defending himself with a ccw?
I have at my disposal a rather large machine that can easily kill some stupid bastard trying to kill me.
why didn't he use it.
Most my vehicles are 4WD and nearly twenty years old, so I don't care if they get a few more dents.
All those lines on the road are just suggestions, and if nobody sees anything then there is no crime.
:shaka:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 31, 2022, 11:19:28 AM
Curious.
I have at my disposal a rather large machine that can easily kill some stupid bastard trying to kill me.
why didn't he use it.
Most my vehicles are 4WD and nearly twenty years old, so I don't care if they get a few more dents.
All those lines on the road are just suggestions, and if nobody sees anything then there is no crime.
:shaka:
I was questioning why the truck driver/victim opened his door at all. That's something you just never do when a confrontation is brewing.
Second, once the assailant parked off the roadway, why did the victim not drive away?
I think there was more back-and-forth going on, and the victim was giving the bad driver a piece of his mind -- not the way the family relayed it to the press.
Still, once the encounter turned physical, the assailant committed a crime. Assault, battery, whatever. Punching him while on the ground then kicking him? That's not a situation that can be remedied with anger management classes.
Arrests, fines and incarcerations are meant to be instructive for the rest of us -- do the crime, do the time.
Our Liberal-minded officials are teaching the wrong lessons to future criminals.
Post by: oldfart on July 31, 2022, 12:01:18 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/31/police-arrest-suspect-accused-beating-elderly-man-apparent-road-rage-attack-laie/=================
No charges filed in road rage attack caught on camera.
No consequences = more crime
Would charges be filed if there was video of the 70yo successfully defending himself with a ccw?
When I see these types of stories, I always wonder what actually happened.
I'll bet the old guy probably said or did some stupid stuff too.
That's probably why the cops didn't press charges.
I'd be really interested to hear the other side of the story.
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 31, 2022, 01:08:39 PM
=================Fights often take 2 to tango. Imo, old guy couls have kept driving. So gets his ass beat is on him.
When I see these types of stories, I always wonder what actually happened.
I'll bet the old guy probably said or did some stupid stuff too.
That's probably why the cops didn't press charges.
I'd be really interested to hear the other side of the story.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Direjackalope on July 31, 2022, 01:11:56 PM
TLDR: We're working on it. "....near future" Stop bothering us.
Post by: changemyoil66 on July 31, 2022, 01:23:49 PM
I got a letter about my CCW application from HPD yesterday. You can see the identical letter on HIFICO's facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/hificoorg/Which means "we are working to find a loophole to deny permits, without being sued. And havent found 1 yet, but were trying"
TLDR: We're working on it. "....near future" Stop bothering us.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: oldfart on July 31, 2022, 01:27:12 PM
Which means "we are working to find a loophole to deny permits, without being sued. And havent found 1 yet, but were trying"============
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
LOL
good one :thumbsup:
Post by: nickelzismoney on July 31, 2022, 01:55:28 PM
I got a letter about my CCW application from HPD yesterday. You can see the identical letter on HIFICO's facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/hificoorg/
TLDR: We're working on it. "....near future" Stop bothering us.
Yup, got mine too
Post by: groveler on July 31, 2022, 09:26:30 PM
the police commission.
Starting tomorrow I will retain a practicing criminal trial lawyer.
I will call the US attorney and request prosecution under title 18 US code section 242
of the police chief for abuse of power under the color of law.
Once I can get to them I will file a complaint with the police commission.
Metaphorically I declare war against the county and state of Hawaii.
:love:
Post by: hvybarrels on July 31, 2022, 10:13:02 PM
Since when did the AG take over for the legislature?
Post by: RSN172 on August 01, 2022, 06:12:56 AM
The laws are already on the books. Follow them!Since her appointment ?
Since when did the AG take over for the legislature?
Post by: 6716J on August 01, 2022, 07:33:49 AM
I was at Times in Mililani today and saw a Concealed Carry Handgun magazine in the rack at the check out. I think my heart grew 3 sizes.
I laughed when I went into the Mililani Wally World yesterday and noticed the sign at the front door said "Please refrain from open carrying your firearm". It was made funnier because the word refrain was highlighted on the sign. Like, we would prefer you didn't but we're not gonna make a big stink if you do.
Post by: RSN172 on August 01, 2022, 08:09:27 AM
I laughed when I went into the Mililani Wally World yesterday and noticed the sign at the front door said "Please refrain from open carrying your firearm". It was made funnier because the word refrain was highlighted on the sign. Like, we would prefer you didn't but we're not gonna make a big stink if you do.Cops better leave their guns in the car before entering. They need to set the example in obeying a lawful business rules and regulations.
Post by: punaperson on August 01, 2022, 08:52:36 AM
I laughed when I went into the Mililani Wally World yesterday and noticed the sign at the front door said "Please refrain from open carrying your firearm". It was made funnier because the word refrain was highlighted on the sign. Like, we would prefer you didn't but we're not gonna make a big stink if you do.Just guessing, but likely a nod to complaining woke snowflakes who are mentally and emotionally traumatized at the sight of a firearm in possession of a human being, including cops (Remember George Floyd!)?
Post by: Rocky on August 01, 2022, 08:56:37 AM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/31/police-arrest-suspect-accused-beating-elderly-man-apparent-road-rage-attack-laie/This 70 yr old who just recently lost his wife was beaten by a 28 yr old on camera ...
No charges filed in road rage attack caught on camera.
No consequences = more crime
Would charges be filed if there was video of the 70yo successfully defending himself with a ccw?
And no charges filed ?
Story is he was returning from visiting wife's grave.
Not sure but I would assume she is in the Laie cemetery which is by the Laie park which is next to his home.
Don't know why he would be up on the end of Laie Point.
Did he follow Aikau ?
Regardless, 70 yr old was beaten by a 28 yr old on camera ...
And no charges filed . :wtf:
Perhaps because the perp is the nephew of the "Eddie Aikau" family and has some HPD connections ? ::)
Post by: macsak on August 01, 2022, 09:16:23 AM
This 70 yr old who just recently lost his wife was beaten by a 28 yr old on camera ...
And no charges filed ?
Story is he was returning from visiting wife's grave.
Not sure but I would assume she is in the Laie cemetery which is by the Laie park which is next to his home.
Don't know why he would be up on the end of Laie Point.
Did he follow Aikau ?
Regardless, 70 yr old was beaten by a 28 yr old on camera ...
And no charges filed . :wtf:
Perhaps because the perp is the nephew of the "Eddie Aikau" family and has some HPD connections ? ::)
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 01, 2022, 09:27:24 AM
This 70 yr old who just recently lost his wife was beaten by a 28 yr old on camera ...
And no charges filed ?
Story is he was returning from visiting wife's grave.
Not sure but I would assume she is in the Laie cemetery which is by the Laie park which is next to his home.
Don't know why he would be up on the end of Laie Point.
Did he follow Aikau ?
Regardless, 70 yr old was beaten by a 28 yr old on camera ...
And no charges filed . :wtf:
Perhaps because the perp is the nephew of the "Eddie Aikau" family and has some HPD connections ? ::)
They are re-visting the evidence.
Post by: groveler on August 01, 2022, 09:33:49 AM
Arranged for an attorney to consult with as need.
Called the US attorney to lodge a complaint against my
police chief. violation of title 18 USC section 242.
Voicemail.
Local police and police commission still on voice mail only.
They don't return calls.
Our system is screwed up.
Lack of action is an ACTION.
:grrr:
Post by: Bota-CS1 on August 01, 2022, 09:59:08 AM
This 70 yr old who just recently lost his wife was beaten by a 28 yr old on camera ...
And no charges filed ?
Story is he was returning from visiting wife's grave.
Not sure but I would assume she is in the Laie cemetery which is by the Laie park which is next to his home.
Don't know why he would be up on the end of Laie Point.
Did he follow Aikau ?
Regardless, 70 yr old was beaten by a 28 yr old on camera ...
And no charges filed . :wtf:
Perhaps because the perp is the nephew of the "Eddie Aikau" family and has some HPD connections ? ::)
Probably the same bunch of liberal progressive prosecutors who didn’t want to press charges against the guy who ended beating that homeless Kapolei lady to death. Kau should’ve won vs. Alm. They’re getting roasted on every platform out there right now.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 01, 2022, 03:35:48 PM
Which is why the truck had to slam on the brakes. The assailant already was looking for a confrontation.
No matter what the truck driver did or said, the assailant should be charged with assault.
I don't care if that person is an Aikau, a kau kau, or a hukilau.
You do the crime, you do the time. WTF is happening nowadays.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 01, 2022, 03:39:30 PM
Probably the same bunch of liberal progressive prosecutors who didn’t want to press charges against the guy who ended beating that homeless Kapolei lady to death. Kau should’ve won vs. Alm. They’re getting roasted on every platform out there right now.
Alm's performance among other things is probably why the Police Union is endorsing Aiona.
They probably frustrated with this f**kn Kumbaya state.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 01, 2022, 04:09:56 PM
Alm behaves like a Soros appointee. I don't know how to see who contributed to his campaign but I would not be surprised if a branch of Open Society was a major contributor.
The idea is to destroy public faith in local policing and bring in federal troops to "clean up"
Straight out of RoboCop. Wake up HPD!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2NS5Upf9M
Post by: macsak on August 01, 2022, 04:26:34 PM
Kau might have won. It was a tight race and the margin of error is well within the possibility of Hawaii's fraudulent mail in ballot system.
Alm behaves like a Soros appointee. I don't know how to see who contributed to his campaign but I would not be surprised if a branch of Open Society was a major contributor.
The idea is to destroy public faith in local policing and bring in federal troops to "clean up"
Straight out of RoboCop. Wake up HPD!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2NS5Upf9M
Post by: Bota-CS1 on August 01, 2022, 08:37:21 PM
Alm's performance among other things is probably why the Police Union is endorsing Aiona.
They probably frustrated with this f**kn Kumbaya state.
I had to look it up, but the mentally ill guy punched in officer in Mililani earlier that night. No wonder morale is so low and they're endorsing Aiona. They probably feel like the prosecutors office is part of the crime problem. it's worse than Ren's favorite revolving door HOPE program.
Post by: ren on August 01, 2022, 09:19:15 PM
I had to look it up, but the mentally ill guy punched in officer in Mililani earlier that night. No wonder morale is so low and they're endorsing Aiona. They probably feel like the prosecutors office is part of the crime problem. it's worse than Ren's favorite revolving door HOPE program.
Me? I didn't make it to that program...
Post by: groveler on August 02, 2022, 03:48:00 PM
Just got my "blow off" CCW letter.
I have to wait till end of the month and then re-apply.
Since we never had an application set up to begin
with, that is an interesting comment.
I do have a criminal trial lawyer on speed dial now.
I still haven't heard back from the US Attorney
and the police commission web site is still down.
This is irritating.
:wtf:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 02, 2022, 04:42:32 PM
This is Hawaii county;
Just got my "blow off" CCW letter.
I have to wait till end of the month and then re-apply.
Since we never had an application set up to begin
with, that is an interesting comment.
I do have a criminal trial lawyer on speed dial now.
I still haven't heard back from the US Attorney
and the police commission web site is still down.
This is irritating.
:wtf:
The Bruen SCOTUS decision is shining a huge spotlight on this state's complete violation of the right to bear arms. While the law allows for issuance of licenses to carry, that's just a smoke screen. We all know in reality they never intended to issue a single one through the prescribed statutory procedures. How else does one account for having no application forms or procedures already worked out and in place? Makes no sense if they were actually intending to follow existing law.
If not for the 9th Circus allowing HI to get away with it for so long, a civil rights lawsuit would be appropriate. Instead, our glorious leaders are trying to drag out the inevitable for as long as possible, hoping they'll stumble across yet another unconstitutional means of denials that has yet to be recognized and prohibited by SCOTUS.
Shakespeare had it right when he said, "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." -- Henry VI (Part 2) Even though they were talking about killing the good lawyers and judges that would prevent them from seizing power, the tables have been turned. In order to give the power back to the people, we need to remove the corrupt, partisan lawyers and judges from office so they can no longer prevent fair and equal justice for the people while protecting the evil, corrupt and dishonest people in elected and appointed positions of power.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 02, 2022, 05:31:19 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 02, 2022, 06:12:42 PM
The Bruen SCOTUS decision is shining a huge spotlight on this state's complete violation of the right to bear arms. While the law allows for issuance of licenses to carry, that's just a smoke screen. We all know in reality they never intended to issue a single one through the prescribed statutory procedures.
This.
And why need further review if the law as is, is sufficient. Taking away 2 more requirements actually makes the approval easier.
I hope everyone here testifies this coming legislative session when they change the law.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: punaperson on August 02, 2022, 06:23:17 PM
No way a police chief would ever lie, right?
Edited to add: Meanwhile, our (Big Island) police chief will be retiring in 29 days. I'm sure the new chief will issue the applied for licenses to all law-abiding applicants immediately upon completing his oath of office to support and uphold the Constitutions.
Post by: groveler on August 02, 2022, 08:31:12 PM
If they don’t recognize my rights why should I recognize their authority?Other than the fact that they are better organized and have better logistics,
I have no respect for Hawaii law or the enforcers.
Aloha, Fellow Americans.
:thumbsup:
Post by: Direjackalope on August 16, 2022, 02:21:48 PM
Post by: aieahound on August 16, 2022, 02:59:43 PM
They gotta close the range first so when they make qualification test standard/required there will be no where to qualify.
Sneaky little bastahds.
Guess everyone will have to carry a .22.
Post by: WTF?Shane on August 16, 2022, 03:35:57 PM
Nope.
They gotta close the range first so when they make qualification test standard/required there will be no where to qualify.
Sneaky little bastahds.
Guess everyone will have to carry a .22.
We still have indoor ranges and some have access to private ranges.
Post by: aieahound on August 16, 2022, 03:55:49 PM
Official range of the HPD test.
Only cost you $200 dollah.
DirtyL might be the proctologist… I mean proctor. :love: just joking big man. :shaka:
(I’m just making shi+ up.)
More serious, if there’s qualification testing, how would neighbor islands do it ?
Post by: hvybarrels on August 16, 2022, 05:04:55 PM
X-Ring ? >:D
Official range of the HPD test.
Only cost you $200 dollah.
DirtyL might be the proctologist… I mean proctor. :love: just joking big man. :shaka:
We should all write a letter
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 16, 2022, 06:34:01 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220817/a4b24cf59f0c1e7339522edb8061f212.jpg)Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 16, 2022, 06:44:49 PM
According to police chief CCW permits should be handed out end of this month.
Just got PSA about KHSC will be .22 LR only starting August 24th
Then in Oct. they will shut the range down for 1 month.
Hmmmmm.........
Why do I always think negative things........
Post by: RSN172 on August 16, 2022, 09:00:15 PM
X-Ring ? >:DI am on the BI, Hilo side. I have a 25 yard handgun range in my backyard.
Official range of the HPD test.
Only cost you $200 dollah.
DirtyL might be the proctologist… I mean proctor. :love: just joking big man. :shaka:
(I’m just making shi+ up.)
More serious, if there’s qualification testing, how would neighbor islands do it ?
I would only charge $199. I even throw in one free full size silhouette target.
Post by: ren on August 17, 2022, 09:20:07 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 19, 2022, 08:29:14 AM
Which is so prohibitive and unconstitutional that it makes it impossible to CCW without breaking the "laws" that they put in place.
Hawaii, California, New York, New Jersey, among others, are like family.
Hurry up with those CCW permits, Chief. The faster you implement them the faster we can start filing the lawsuits.
Post by: punaperson on August 19, 2022, 10:27:58 AM
If you look at all the restrictions California implemented into their CCW program it's easy to see that Hawaii will model their program similar to theirs.He's got 11 days left to fulfill his own "expectation" of issuing licenses "by the end of August".
Which is so prohibitive and unconstitutional that it makes it impossible to CCW without breaking the "laws" that they put in place.
Hawaii, California, New York, New Jersey, among others, are like family.
Hurry up with those CCW permits, Chief. The faster you implement them the faster we can start filing the lawsuits.
Not issuing revised applications and restrictions, uh, I mean, "procedures" (to use the chief's language), but licenses.
Anyone there on Oahu think he might not meet his own expectations?
As for the Big Island, nobody (at the police department) no nuthin'. "Just be patient." >:(
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 19, 2022, 11:39:28 AM
He's got 11 days left to fulfill his own "expectation" of issuing licenses "by the end of August".
Not issuing revised applications and restrictions, uh, I mean, "procedures" (to use the chief's language), but licenses.
Anyone there on Oahu think he might not meet his own expectations?
As for the Big Island, nobody (at the police department) no nuthin'. "Just be patient." >:(
Yeah, unfortunately. I won’t trust him until he gives a reason to be trusted. We’ll see
Post by: Waverider82 on August 19, 2022, 03:42:30 PM
https://youtu.be/oqoClZPWtFk
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 19, 2022, 04:04:15 PM
But it looks like the swamp has infiltrated into the 9th circuit court.
They are kicking the can down the road, refusing to do their job as directed by SCOTUS.
Such a blatant defiance to the highest court in the land is proof that corruption is deep, rampant, and unafraid, in lockstep only to those powerful elite in the demokratic party.
Post by: rpoL98 on August 19, 2022, 04:33:48 PM
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 19, 2022, 05:09:46 PM
Post by: punaperson on August 19, 2022, 05:32:42 PM
The 9th Circuit just refused to rehear Young v Hawaii.Absolutely unf*ckingbelievable. Disgusting. Possibly criminal.
https://youtu.be/oqoClZPWtFk
Hawaii's Democrat Marxist fascist authoritarians (i.e. virtually all of Hawaii's government) are laughing their butts off.
The entire order, including dissent is here: http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022-08-19-Order-for-Publication.pdf
Post by: hvybarrels on August 19, 2022, 07:42:31 PM
I’ve come across some bad ideas, but this one…
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 20, 2022, 07:55:23 AM
so, now the chief can wait for the district court to adjudicate. what, another 10 years?
In my opinion, it doesn't look good.... :(
He could do that, but the uproar and objections will be profound and understandably so.
But I think the announced CCW program promised at the end of this month will be modeled after the Kalifornia CCW program just recently implemented.
Which is a CCW program that is so restrictive and prohibitive that it is almost impossible if not totally inconvenient for a law-abiding citizen to follow and not break any of the "laws".
I honestly wish that I am totally, 100% wrong to think this way. And I hope that Hawaii's citizens can celebrate a 2a victory come the end of this month.
I am anxiously awaiting the Chief's announcement but not knowing if I am going to be jumping for joy or hopelessly drowning my sorrows with a botte of cheap vodka. ;)
Post by: groveler on August 20, 2022, 01:36:28 PM
Absolutely unf*ckingbelievable. Disgusting. Possibly criminal."play ball with us and we'll shove the bat up your ass"
Hawaii's Democrat Marxist fascist authoritarians (i.e. virtually all of Hawaii's government) are laughing their butts off.
The entire order, including dissent is here: http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/2022-08-19-Order-for-Publication.pdf
:wtf:
I don't you guys have enough cops. you need more.
I've got a lawyer on speed dial do you?
:grrr:
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 20, 2022, 11:07:37 PM
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Brystont1 on August 20, 2022, 11:21:21 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 21, 2022, 04:11:20 AM
I will wait a little longer before I choose to flip out. When district judge rehears young and rules pro 2A Hawaii will try to file for emergency stay from ninth court. However with the Bruen decision the ninth will no longer be able to use the balancing test to Grant emergency stay. If the ninth does somehow figure out a way to grant Hawaii an emergency stay I will flip out. I will hope for the best and expect the worse.Would u be ok if it takes 2 more years? Or what if the lawsuit gets dropped for what ever reason?
The point is that if logan was ethical, he would have signed them within days upon Bruen ruling. Then again when the AG issued their statement.
Imagine if HIFICO (andrew specifically) wasnt pushing the issue.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: hvybarrels on August 21, 2022, 08:40:26 AM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/08/20/manhunt-underway-after-woman-fatally-shot-chinatown-bus-stop-sources-say/
Post by: Direjackalope on August 21, 2022, 09:18:54 AM
Meanwhile at a bus stop near you…. public executions!
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/08/20/manhunt-underway-after-woman-fatally-shot-chinatown-bus-stop-sources-say/
Logan better hope she didn't have a carry permit application in. Her family should be picking out what to buy with his pension.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 21, 2022, 09:28:50 AM
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 21, 2022, 09:34:07 AM
Meanwhile at a bus stop near you…. public executions!
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/08/20/manhunt-underway-after-woman-fatally-shot-chinatown-bus-stop-sources-say/
Evidently Hawaii's strict gun control laws and non-issue of CCW's has not deterred this criminal from doing the evil deed.
Which brings up a valid point that has been brought up countless times: It's not the law-abiding citizen that is fueling these violent crimes.
So why is it that the law-abiding citizens are being punished for things these asshats are doing? :grrr:
Post by: Brystont1 on August 21, 2022, 10:00:21 AM
Would u be ok if it takes 2 more years? Or what if the lawsuit gets dropped for what ever reason?
The point is that if logan was ethical, he would have signed them within days upon Bruen ruling. Then again when the AG issued their statement.
Imagine if HIFICO (andrew specifically) wasnt pushing the issue.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Im not ok with any of it.
I’m thinking further ahead. I’m looking at the bigger picture of whether or not our judicial system is completely broken. I never expected chief Logan to be ethical. If you did that’s your fault (not you personally I’m talking generally) and you should’ve known that the state would pull every last trick in the book to deny us our 2A rights. I’m not upset yet because our government is supposedly comprised of checks and balances. I wait to and see if the judicial system corrects itself
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 21, 2022, 10:42:11 AM
Im not ok with any of it.
I’m thinking further ahead. I’m looking at the bigger picture of whether or not our judicial system is completely broken. I never expected chief Logan to be ethical. If you did that’s your fault (not you personally I’m talking generally) and you should’ve known that the state would pull every last trick in the book to deny us our 2A rights. I’m not upset yet because our government is supposedly comprised of checks and balances. I wait to and see if the judicial system corrects itself
I'm pissed because the law has for years specified what's required for a CC License, and the ONE AND ONLY COMPONENT -- the "good cause" part -- was shot down by SCOTUS.
The fact that the state is now scrambling to redefine what an applicant must do for a license is evidence they never intended to issue a single license. All these changes in policy and procedure are illegal, since the law is what dictates the process, not HPD and not the AG.
We're watching in real time a tacit admission of their "Never Issue" policy. That's 100% illegal. Someone should be held accountable, from the police chief all the way to the mayor and governor.
Yeah, I'm a little pissed. They got caught breaking the law, but it's unlikely they will ever be held accountable.
Post by: punaperson on August 21, 2022, 01:38:21 PM
Im not ok with any of it.Just out of curiosity, what number of years constitutes "further ahead", i.e. how long are you willing to demurely "wait to and [sic] see if the judicial system corrects itself"?
I’m thinking further ahead. I’m looking at the bigger picture of whether or not our judicial system is completely broken. I never expected chief Logan to be ethical. If you did that’s your fault (not you personally I’m talking generally) and you should’ve known that the state would pull every last trick in the book to deny us our 2A rights. I’m not upset yet because our government is supposedly comprised of checks and balances. I wait to and see if the judicial system corrects itself
Young v. [Hawaii] has been in the "judicial system" for over 10 years, and is now back to district court... with not a hint of resolution anywhere to be seen. It's been in the system so long that some of the people named as defendants are dead, and the rest no longer hold the offices named... and likely the lawsuit has many years to go before it is resolved.
At what point (number of years from now) and what specific outcomes will you need to see to be able to evaluate that the "judicial system" has NOT "correct[ed] itself"?
Of course this is all hypothetical ramblings... as the Oahu chief has already made perfectly clear on several occasions that carry licenses will be issued by him in the next 10 days.
Not holding my breath.
Post by: Brystont1 on August 21, 2022, 01:56:30 PM
Just out of curiosity, what number of years constitutes "further ahead", i.e. how long are you willing to demurely "wait to and [sic] see if the judicial system corrects itself"?
Young v. [Hawaii] has been in the "judicial system" for over 10 years, and is now back to district court... with not a hint of resolution anywhere to be seen. It's been in the system so long that some of the people named as defendants are dead, and the rest no longer hold the offices named... and likely the lawsuit has many years to go before it is resolved.
At what point (number of years from now) and what specific outcomes will you need to see to be able to evaluate that the "judicial system" has NOT "correct[ed] itself"?
Of course this is all hypothetical ramblings... as the Oahu chief has already made perfectly clear on several occasions that carry licenses will be issued by him in the next 10 days.
Not holding my breath.
I’ve already explained what outcomes I want to see in my earlier post. I’m not sure why you guys are taking issue with what I wrote? The state of Hawaii and California have enjoyed an advantage up until Bruen. The ability for the states to request and be granted emergency stays based on the balancing test has allowed them to take a “if you don’t like it then sue us” approach. If they know that a particular law will be granted an emergency stay they will have no problem fighting it in court while our rights get denied.
What I want to see is exactly what the SCOTUS wants to see. There’s a reason the court remanded those cases back down to the ninth, they want to see Text, history, and Tradition properly applied. If the district court applies the law correctly In youngVhawaii the state will have to fight that ruling while we get to open carry.
Post by: groveler on August 21, 2022, 02:42:02 PM
I’ve already explained what outcomes I want to see in my earlier post. I’m not sure why you guys are taking issue with what I wrote? The state of Hawaii and California have enjoyed an advantage up until Bruen. The ability for the states to request and be granted emergency stays based on the balancing test has allowed them to take a “if you don’t like it then sue us” approach. If they know that a particular law will be granted an emergency stay they will have no problem fighting it in court while our rights get denied.I suppose you didn't know that it was rather "easy" to get a CCW in California as long as you were in a rural county.
What I want to see is exactly what the SCOTUS wants to see. There’s a reason the court remanded those cases back down to the ninth, they want to see Text, history, and Tradition properly applied. If the district court applies the law correctly In youngVhawaii the state will have to fight that ruling while we get to open carry.
Hawaii there are NO CCW's at all anywhere. So I hope you don't think I'm a little too radical on this subject.
But fuck them. The hoops they are going to put up even Nadia Comăneci could not jump through.
And there's like 300 or so applications in the entire state?
They are afraid of 300 of us, In a population of 1.4 million?
No more Aloha, No more go along to get along.
Y'all lost my cooperation in the getting in the box car to take a trip,
Hawaii.
:grrr:
Post by: punaperson on August 21, 2022, 02:47:14 PM
I’ve already explained what outcomes I want to see in my earlier post. I’m not sure why you guys are taking issue with what I wrote? The state of Hawaii and California have enjoyed an advantage up until Bruen. The ability for the states to request and be granted emergency stays based on the balancing test has allowed them to take a “if you don’t like it then sue us” approach. If they know that a particular law will be granted an emergency stay they will have no problem fighting it in court while our rights get denied.I'm questioning your comments to get a clearer picture of your acceptable timetable and specific incidents that you might evaluate as "the judicial system correcting itself"... and why you would think such events could happen in Hawaii courts or the Ninth Circuit, when the history, text, and tradition of those courts is to consistently deny the exercise of the fundamental, individual, God-given/natural, constitutionally-protected right to bear arms.
What I want to see is exactly what the SCOTUS wants to see. There’s a reason the court remanded those cases back down to the ninth, they want to see Text, history, and Tradition properly applied. If the district court applies the law correctly In youngVhawaii the state will have to fight that ruling while we get to open carry.
I also question the validity of the logic that claims that if the district court rules in favor of Young, that "we get to open carry". Surely the state will appeal and ask for a stay until resolved at the appeal level(s)... which will be many more years down the road. The courts have a long consistent history of "deference" to the state/government. Especially re "public safety" (see the 95% court case rate of upholding (uselessly ineffective) "Covid mandates", etc.).
I don't understand your willingness to see if the "judicial system will correct itself". It has never done so in the past with regard to firearms issues locally and in the Ninth Circuit. Why would it start now? Your read the SCOTUS remand of Young to the Ninth Circuit. You read the Ninth Circuit remand to the district court, and O'Scannlain's scathing dissent of that remand. You don't think those lawyers/judges will continue in the same vein and find numerous ways to continue to deny us exercising our rights? I don't claim to know, but I don't see any evidence that would lead me to believe that all of a sudden they are going to respect the history, text and tradition of Second Amendment protected rights now.
Post by: punaperson on August 21, 2022, 02:51:08 PM
I suppose you didn't know that it was rather "easy" to get a CCW in California as long as you were in a rural county.Should mention that before those folks boarded for their rail excursions to the group showers, they turned in their firearms at the request of the ruling socialist... for the good of all.
Hawaii there are NO CCW's at all anywhere. So I hope you don't think I'm a little too radical on this subject.
But fuck them. The hoops they are going to put up even Nadia Comăneci could not jump through.
And there's like 300 or so applications in the entire state?
They are afraid of 300 of us, In a population of 1.4 million?
No more Aloha, No more go along to get along.
Y'all lost my cooperation in the getting in the box car to take a trip,
Hawaii.
:grrr:
Post by: Brystont1 on August 21, 2022, 03:55:42 PM
I'm questioning your comments to get a clearer picture of your acceptable timetable and specific incidents that you might evaluate as "the judicial system correcting itself"... and why you would think such events could happen in Hawaii courts or the Ninth Circuit, when the history, text, and tradition of those courts is to consistently deny the exercise of the fundamental, individual, God-given/natural, constitutionally-protected right to bear arms.
I also question the validity of the logic that claims that if the district court rules in favor of Young, that "we get to open carry". Surely the state will appeal and ask for a stay until resolved at the appeal level(s)... which will be many more years down the road. The courts have a long consistent history of "deference" to the state/government. Especially re "public safety" (see the 95% court case rate of upholding (uselessly ineffective) "Covid mandates", etc.).
I don't understand your willingness to see if the "judicial system will correct itself". It has never done so in the past with regard to firearms issues locally and in the Ninth Circuit. Why would it start now? Your read the SCOTUS remand of Young to the Ninth Circuit. You read the Ninth Circuit remand to the district court, and O'Scannlain's scathing dissent of that remand. You don't think those lawyers/judges will continue in the same vein and find numerous ways to continue to deny us exercising our rights? I don't claim to know, but I don't see any evidence that would lead me to believe that all of a sudden they are going to respect the history, text and tradition of Second Amendment protected rights now.
We just got a win at the SCOTUS level. The judicial system is our last hope. We certainly are not getting any help from our executive or legislative branches and unless you want to lead the civil war against the state we have to hope that Justice Thomas’ opinion is strong enough to force the lower courts to rule appropriately. I’m pretty young still so forgive my naivety. It sounds like you’ve given up and I don’t blame you but IMO I’m only doing what is logical. Hawaii had been relying on the 2 step approach to win 2A cases and the Supreme Court has expressly stated that is the incorrect way to interpret the law.
If the district court rules in favor of Young the state will try to request a stay. However in light of Bruen they cannot use the balancing test to justify an emergency stay. They will have to allow open carry at that point while the state appeals the decision. This gives us the advantage in future lawsuits. However if they find a way to grant a stay I will be right there with you.
Post by: groveler on August 21, 2022, 04:54:17 PM
We just got a win at the SCOTUS level. The judicial system is our last hope. We certainly are not getting any help from our executive or legislative branches and unless you want to lead the civil war against the state we have to hope that Justice Thomas’ opinion is strong enough to force the lower courts to rule appropriately. I’m pretty young still so forgive my naivety. It sounds like you’ve given up and I don’t blame you but IMO I’m only doing what is logical. Hawaii had been relying on the 2 step approach to win 2A cases and the Supreme Court has expressly stated that is the incorrect way to interpret the law.You are young so here is how it works,
If the district court rules in favor of Young the state will try to request a stay. However in light of Bruen they cannot use the balancing test to justify an emergency stay. They will have to allow open carry at that point while the state appeals the decision. This gives us the advantage in future lawsuits. However if they find a way to grant a stay I will be right there with you.
If you don't want to do something, you work "to the rule" There are so many rules
very little will ever get done.
In the private world they will lay your ass off, but government doesn't have that issue.
They are working "to rule" you want to abide by that and
you will be my age and still not be able to practice the rights God gave you when you were
conceived.
Government and their hired help are not your friends.
Granted we don't want to go Kinetic on this, but doing it by their rules isn't working either.
Passive aggression is my path.
Cheat them, starve them, watch them die from their own self inflicted wounds.
:geekdanc: :shaka:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 21, 2022, 06:10:34 PM
We just got a win at the SCOTUS level. The judicial system is our last hope.
[snipped]
Based on that belief, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you don't fully understand the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.
"Soap Box
Ballot Box <== ** We are here **
Bullet Box"
Post by: Brystont1 on August 21, 2022, 06:30:52 PM
Based on that belief, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you don't fully understand the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.
"Soap Box
Ballot Box <== ** We are here **
Bullet Box"
I meant our last hope before things get bad.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 21, 2022, 08:44:24 PM
I meant our last hope before things get bad.
You should say what you mean.
What you said was "last hope." We have options if the justice system fails to do its job, and there's nobody in authority willing to put it right.
Post by: Brystont1 on August 22, 2022, 07:00:14 AM
You should say what you mean.
What you said was "last hope." We have options if the justice system fails to do its job, and there's nobody in authority willing to put it right.
I already mentioned civil war as an option, however it’s an option that literally no one wants. So calling the judicial system our last hope is entirely appropriate to say. Your taking my statement out of context.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 22, 2022, 11:28:01 AM
I already mentioned civil war as an option, however it’s an option that literally no one wants. So calling the judicial system our last hope is entirely appropriate to say. Your taking my statement out of context.Please explain what context I failed to consider? It seemed perfectly clear what your context was.
You're tap dancing around admitting you could have (should have?) been more precise with your comments, and you're blaming me for "taking it out of context."
When you start explaining/lecturing others on the law and what it means going forward, you should be more accurate and less defensive.
The Constitution is the legal document that supersedes all other legal documents. Having to sue our "rulers" to get them to follow the law isn't part of what the founders envisioned. Defending our lives and freedoms against tyranny is, however, covered: "...being necessary to the security of a free State..."
When the justice system is unwilling to force the ruling class to follow the law and Constitution, our last hope is not the courts.
Again, in what context does your comment make better sense?
Post by: Rhed on August 22, 2022, 11:48:37 AM
https://youtu.be/NTJ0YoKJZpA
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 22, 2022, 12:24:27 PM
Not Hawaii.. but..
https://youtu.be/NTJ0YoKJZpA
But coming to HI soon. It's no coincidence that NY and CA's new CCW process has mirror like requirements. It's just that HI is not in its legislative session and Ige won't hold a special session.
Which means everyone here better be submitting testimonies and calling/emailing their reps (house/senate) once the session begins.
Post by: punaperson on August 22, 2022, 08:33:41 PM
It's been more than 30 days since the Hawaii PD posted their 30 day statement on their website (see below).
It will be 30 days tomorrow since they sent my denial letter of my unconcealed/concealed carry license application, fulfilling all the criteria required at the time, using the exact same verbiage as on the website (below) as the "excuse".
I will call HPD tomorrow if the website isn't updated with the new "process". Then call the mayor and mention stonewalling, since no one at HPD claims to know anything at all about when the new "process" will actually appear nor anything at all about what it will contain as "criteria". "Just watch the website or call". LOL. Lying sacks of sh*t.
License to Carry
In view of the recent Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) decision in the case of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc., et al. v. Bruen, Superintendent Of New York State Police, et al, the police departments throughout the State are working with the Department of Attorney General and our County attorneys in revising the permitting process for concealed and unconcealed firearms.
The revisions to the current process will include amending the applications being currently utilized, therefore, if still interested you will need to reapply once the revisions are finalized. We anticipate the revisions being completed within the next 30 days and will post updated information on our department’s website.
****
As a side note, "§134-9 Licenses to carry" uses the term "license(s)" 12 times in the law itself, and 9 more times in the "Attorney General Comments", for a total of 21 times.
The word "permit(s)" does not appear even one time.
Thus the cops using the term "permitting process" is technically incorrect. What a surprise. smh.
Post by: aieahound on August 22, 2022, 09:12:07 PM
It’s a Right for nuts sake.
I don’t really object to it though IF they offer it for free.
(Note : All permits applied for before Legislative session granted.)
I seen knuckleheads at the range I definitely do not want carrying.
But if Shi+ went down in the mall, I’d be praying someone with little bit of skill was carrying.
Realistically, we’re gonna eat whatever shit pudding they’re serving in this State regarding firearms.
Hope at least it’s free because it’s a Right. (Except the $43.95 for non-existent RapBack which everyone’s willfully been paying.)
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 23, 2022, 06:38:43 AM
This anticipation is wrought with anxieties: Unrealistic restrictions. Training and qualification requirements. Waiting periods. Costs? The lists and possibilities are endless. All unconstitutional. The fact that "they" said "wait and be patient" is not promising.
Whatever the outcome is, it should be coming soon.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 23, 2022, 08:32:21 AM
Hurry up with those permits chief
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 23, 2022, 09:16:07 AM
If they add live fire training and qualification it should be free like Hunters Ed.
It’s a Right for nuts sake.
I don’t really object to it though IF they offer it for free.
(Note : All permits applied for before Legislative session granted.)
I seen knuckleheads at the range I definitely do not want carrying.
But if Shi+ went down in the mall, I’d be praying someone with little bit of skill was carrying.
Realistically, we’re gonna eat whatever shit pudding they’re serving in this State regarding firearms.
Hope at least it’s free because it’s a Right. (Except the $43.95 for non-existent RapBack which everyone’s willfully been paying.)
From what the Chief said a few weeks ago, NRA instructors would conduct the training and determine what the qual is. Which means they will charge for their time and efforts, which is understandable. Of course, this is just what he said and not what may be done.
I highly doubt HPD or like agency will do this.
Post by: punaperson on August 23, 2022, 09:47:45 AM
I called HPD (as in HawaiiPD) to find out why they haven't honored their "30 days until new application" statement, and of course Captain Saladeras (sp?) didn't answer, so I left a message. Last time it took him 8 days to return my call. And then he knew nothing at all about when the applications would be available, nor who else I might talk to to find out what was going on and why the delay.
Then I called the mayor's office (9:30 AM, August 23, 2022) to find out if someone there knew what was going on or if they knew of someone I could talk to who knew what was going on. I got a recorded message saying they would be closed on August 19, but that they would return my call when they got back in the office on the 22nd. Is it any wonder why this place is the sh*thole it is?
**** Edited to add: Decided to call the Prosecuting Attorneys office to see if they could direct me to someone knowledgeable, as the notice on the HPD website says the applications/criteria are being formulated with "county attorneys". Got transferred to secretary of head prosecuting attorney Weltjen... left a message. smh.
Post by: Pancakes on August 23, 2022, 11:48:57 AM
Post by: groveler on August 23, 2022, 11:53:44 AM
Had two friends who went to the west side separately yesterday both report back that the vibe over there is gnarly. People look devastated and angry. They are shooting guns in the back hills to scare away robbers because the economic hardship is making violent crime an every day reality, plus I”m sure they have noticed how many people got permanently disabled or died from the mRNA shots and are furious that nobody in Honolulu Hale cares about them. Imagine what it’s going to be like after the election when food an energy prices really get this inflation party started. Makaha and Maile point might be off menu this winter. Then again I’ll be reluctant to leave the house because we’ll have our own zip code chaos to worry about.Y'all need to be documenting that shit.
Hurry up with those permits chief
Puna and I live in rural Hawaii and that
isn't happening here.
Too dangerous for criminals. cops are
too far away for their protection.
:thumbsup:
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 23, 2022, 12:29:52 PM
I applied today. I asked if they had gotten lots of applications, and the guy said no. Then he went on to say they’re not allowed to say it’s a waste of time before explaining to me it’s a waste of time. Lol so I’m not going to get my hopes up too high 🙄
The really sad thing about all of this is it's not a waste of time, for you, me, or anybody else that wants a CCW permit.
SCOTUS ruled that an individual's right to self-protection extends beyond the confines of one's household and property.
They (HPD and the counties LE Departments) are the actual "waste of time" and is deliberately creating obstacles and saying sh*t like what they just told you in direct defiance of the highest court of the land. An institution that demands utmost respect and compliance in their decisions.
What Hawaii is doing, along with other asshat States like Kalifornia and New York, is downright infuriating and a good example of how far this country has deteriorated under the Blue Party Doctrine.
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 23, 2022, 02:25:37 PM
The really sad thing about all of this is it's not a waste of time, for you, me, or anybody else that wants a CCW permit.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220824/2d1d5240a44845be4b6c5887663d8bf5.jpg)
SCOTUS ruled that an individual's right to self-protection extends beyond the confines of one's household and property.
They (HPD and the counties LE Departments) are the actual "waste of time" and is deliberately creating obstacles and saying sh*t like what they just told you in direct defiance of the highest court of the land. An institution that demands utmost respect and compliance in their decisions.
What Hawaii is doing, along with other asshat States like Kalifornia and New York, is downright infuriating and a good example of how far this country has deteriorated under the Blue Party Doctrine.
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: RSN172 on August 23, 2022, 09:26:19 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 24, 2022, 07:49:31 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220824/2d1d5240a44845be4b6c5887663d8bf5.jpg)
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Here is one of countless reasons you need 30 (or more) rounds. That lady is a hopeless idiot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_gJAzuoX_s
Maybe we should give her a single shot .22 LR and set her loose in Boar Country.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 24, 2022, 08:59:50 AM
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 12:04:03 PM
Here is the URL for the page. It has live links to all the documents listed.
https://www.hawaiipolice.com/services/firearm-registration#licenseCarry
License to Carry
On August 24, 2022, the Hawai`i Police Department announced that it has revised the permitting process for license to carry concealed and unconcealed firearms as a result of the July 23, 2022, Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) decision in the case of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc., et al. v. Bruen, Superintendent Of New York State Police, et al. The updated application and supporting documentation forms are linked below.
HPD’s Procedures Manual License to Carry (Concealed and Unconcealed) Application Processing
HPD’s Application for License to Carry Firearm Packet Checklist
Application for License to Carry Firearms Form (Form HPD/ADMIN-039A)
Application for License to Carry Firearms Form – Attachment A – Employer Certification
Authorization for Use or Disclosure of Protected Health Information (PHI)
HPD’s Applicant’s License to Carry Waiver of Liability and Release Form
* * * *
What a pile of bullsh*t.
For example, from the 12 page HPD’s Procedures Manual License to Carry (Concealed and Unconcealed) Application Processing:
5.1.3. Submit a copy of the signed firearms proficiency test including
scores:
a. Firearms proficiency test shall be taken with the firearm to
be carried, (completed within 90 days prior to submittal of
application).
b. Test must be administered by a state-certified or National
Rifle Association firearms instructor of the applicant’s
choosing (include instructor certification).
c. Signed shooting proficiency test results must include
shooting scores (pass/fail only is not sufficient).
Uh-huh. There is no public range on this island/county. Where the hell will the test be given?
They have also changed the application to include the listing of only one firearm to be carried. The application I submitted just over a month ago had the space for four firearms to be listed to carry.
The list of "conditions" (which the chief may use to disqualify) is ludicrously long.
So did the applicants on Oahu get this updated application and that's why the chief there said he'd be issuing licenses by the end of August?
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 24, 2022, 12:13:47 PM
No update on Honolulu PD yet. But call the chief is tomorrow morning, so I'm sure someone will call and ask.
Post by: surfmaster on August 24, 2022, 12:50:49 PM
Got a question about this Employer Certification form, https://www.hawaiipolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/4.-License-to-Carry-Application-Attach-A-Employer-Certif-082422.pdf.
Is this form for all applicants or just those employed by the state of city and country? Is it just those who work for a security firm?
If not, does this mean your employer, private or public sector, needs to sign off on your concealed carry application?
Hawaii County PD published the new requirements on their website mid-morning.
Here is the URL for the page. It has live links to all the documents listed.
https://www.hawaiipolice.com/services/firearm-registration#licenseCarry
License to Carry
On August 24, 2022, the Hawai`i Police Department announced that it has revised the permitting process for license to carry concealed and unconcealed firearms as a result of the July 23, 2022, Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) decision in the case of New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc., et al. v. Bruen, Superintendent Of New York State Police, et al. The updated application and supporting documentation forms are linked below.
HPD’s Procedures Manual License to Carry (Concealed and Unconcealed) Application Processing
HPD’s Application for License to Carry Firearm Packet Checklist
Application for License to Carry Firearms Form (Form HPD/ADMIN-039A)
Application for License to Carry Firearms Form – Attachment A – Employer Certification
Authorization for Use or Disclosure of Protected Health Information (PHI)
HPD’s Applicant’s License to Carry Waiver of Liability and Release Form
* * * *
What a pile of bullsh*t.
For example, from the 12 page HPD’s Procedures Manual License to Carry (Concealed and Unconcealed) Application Processing:
5.1.3. Submit a copy of the signed firearms proficiency test including
scores:
a. Firearms proficiency test shall be taken with the firearm to
be carried, (completed within 90 days prior to submittal of
application).
b. Test must be administered by a state-certified or National
Rifle Association firearms instructor of the applicant’s
choosing (include instructor certification).
c. Signed shooting proficiency test results must include
shooting scores (pass/fail only is not sufficient).
Uh-huh. There is no public range on this island/county. Where the hell will the test be given?
They have also changed the application to include the listing of only one firearm to be carried. The application I submitted just over a month ago had the space for four firearms to be listed to carry.
The list of "conditions" (which the chief may use to disqualify) is ludicrously long.
So did the applicants on Oahu get this updated application and that's why the chief there said he'd be issuing licenses by the end of August?
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 12:51:44 PM
I called three times. Each time: "Your call cannot be completed".
I wonder if that will be the last glitch in this process? LOL.
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 12:55:50 PM
Thanks for sharing this info.From the form [emphasis added]:
Got a question about this Employer Certification form, https://www.hawaiipolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/4.-License-to-Carry-Application-Attach-A-Employer-Certif-082422.pdf.
Is this form for all applicants or just those employed by the state of city and country? Is it just those who work for a security firm?
If not, does this mean your employer, private or public sector, needs to sign off on your concealed carry application?
THAT THE NATURE OF THE PERSON’S DUTIES REQUIRE THAT THE PERSON CARRY THE FIREARM DESCRIBED HEREIN FOR THE
PURPOSE STATED, AND THAT THE APPLICANT IS QUALIFIED TO USE SAID FIREARMS AS REQUIRED BY THE RULES AND
REGULATIONS OF THE POLICE CHIEF CONCERNING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS AND THE CARRYING OF
UNCONCEALED FIREARMS BY PRIVATE DETECTIVES AND SECURITY GUARDS.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 24, 2022, 01:08:29 PM
Second, if the license expires annually, and the test must be completed within 90 days of application/renewal, unless they state otherwise, the test needs to be passed annually as well (read that as "more money and time spent to satisfy government requirements"). That puts one more speed bump in the process for law-abiding gun owners. If the test costs $150, that's not a small sum accrued over 5-10 years or more.
Top that off with the "must test with the handgun you will carry." If you want the option to carry a different gun for different situations/attire/moods, you'll need to pay for testing with each firearm. Maybe some proctors will offer a discount for multiple guns in one testing session, but I doubt it'll be cheap. They still have to do a separate form for each test.
While they are at it, why not require applicants to show how to properly clear a malfunction? Oh, that's right/ A jammed gun isn't a threat to anyone. What was I thinking? :wacko:
Post by: ilikebigbots on August 24, 2022, 01:29:57 PM
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 01:32:33 PM
So, if the state requires that policies be consistent throughout the state, we can safely assume (though not guarantee) that the other counties will have the same or nearly the same procedures.It's ALL bullsh*t.
Second, if the license expires annually, and the test must be completed within 90 days of application/renewal, unless they state otherwise, the test needs to be passed annually as well (read that as "more money and time spent to satisfy government requirements"). That puts one more speed bump in the process for law-abiding gun owners. If the test costs $150, that's not a small sum accrued over 5-10 years or more.
Top that off with the "must test with the handgun you will carry." If you want the option to carry a different gun for different situations/attire/moods, you'll need to pay for testing with each firearm. Maybe some proctors will offer a discount for multiple guns in one testing session, but I doubt it'll be cheap. They still have to do a separate form for each test.
While they are at it, why not require applicants to show how to properly clear a malfunction? Oh, that's right/ A jammed gun isn't a threat to anyone. What was I thinking? :wacko:
Anything beyond disqualification from possession due to particular kinds of criminal convictions or certain kinds of mental incapacity are all infringements. ALL OF IT!
The government has zero legitimate justification for demanding knowledge of anything at all about a law-abiding citizen's weaponry. ZERO!
A person can "make a stink" about it all, file lawsuits, and/or simply ignore the illegal laws and exercise one's rights as intended (with the potential of incarceration imposed by the fascist authoritarians).
This is all too f*cking much. Sickening. Truly disgusting.
Can't wait to see what the legislature comes up with next session (just a few common sense gun regulations, I'm sure).
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 24, 2022, 01:33:57 PM
Top that off with the "must test with the handgun you will carry." If you want the option to carry a different gun for different situations/attire/moods, you'll need to pay for testing with each firearm. Maybe some proctors will offer a discount for multiple guns in one testing session, but I doubt it'll be cheap. They still have to do a separate form for each test.
I'm sure that there will be stores that instead of just shooting all the guns you want to apply with, they will charge you for each gun. We've seen stores charge $200 class just to buy a taser, when the law states 'informational briefing" and not "class".
Post by: stangzilla on August 24, 2022, 01:52:00 PM
how many shots?
distance?
time limit?
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 24, 2022, 02:04:04 PM
What a bunch of bullsh*t. The permit, if granted is good for one year. Then when you re-new, it looks like you gotta go through the whole BS application process again!!
This is like when we "re-new" our long gun application. We are not actually re-newing in the true sense. We are turning in the old permit and applying for a new one :grrr:
All....This....is....F**KN.....BULLSH*T.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 24, 2022, 02:05:45 PM
so what is passing score?
how many shots?
distance?
time limit?
Who knows....but it wouldn't surprise me that you gotta hit 20 out of 19 shots at 100 yards......
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 02:27:02 PM
so what is passing score?The Oahu chief, on the radio call in show, said that the state wouldn't dictate to the testers what the criteria would be, and that the testers themselves would make up whatever standard for competence/passing they wanted. So each person teaching would have a distinct test and a distinct "passing score". Gee, that sounds real scientific and objective. Just like all the rest of their "common sense gun safety" bullsh*t lies.
how many shots?
distance?
time limit?
Of course, the Oahu chief also said he'd be issuing licenses in the next 7 days. I wonder if he'll have to make a retraction? I mean a correction to the procedure. I mean sling more bullsh*t.
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 02:28:10 PM
Who knows....but it wouldn't surprise me that you gotta hit 20 out of 19 shots at 100 yards.........in minus two seconds.
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 02:37:59 PM
6.3.9. Whether the applicant has an “urgency” or “need” to carry a
firearm unconcealed rather than concealed, taking into account
considerations such as whether an unconcealed carry license will
enable the applicant to protect life or property more effectively
than a concealed carry license, and whether the intended use of the
unconcealed carry license is likely to cause terror and panic among
the general public (e.g., openly carrying a firearm in a shopping
center may be different than openly carrying a firearm on a quiet
street or in a rural area);
They're admitting that your ability to exercise your fundamental, individual, God-given/natural, unalienable Constitutionally-protected right is contingent upon the response of other people, no matter how stupid, ignorant, paranoid, buffoonish, or idiotically moronic they might be. Yeah, that sounds about right, especially for Hawaii... where those types of people are the vast majority (aka Democrats).
Post by: RSN172 on August 24, 2022, 03:27:07 PM
But as a member of this forum, I don't do anything illegal…..but isn’t the right to carry, legal?
Post by: stangzilla on August 24, 2022, 03:57:03 PM
that way we can't miss
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 24, 2022, 04:41:10 PM
The Oahu chief, on the radio call in show, said that the state wouldn't dictate to the testers what the criteria would be, and that the testers themselves would make up whatever standard for competence/passing they wanted. So each person teaching would have a distinct test and a distinct "passing score". Gee, that sounds real scientific and objective. Just like all the rest of their "common sense gun safety" bullsh*t lies.
Of course, the Oahu chief also said he'd be issuing licenses in the next 7 days. I wonder if he'll have to make a retraction? I mean a correction to the procedure. I mean sling more bullsh*t.
Makes about as much sense as making us either pay for an NRA Handgun Safety Course (must include live fire training) OR pass the HI Hunter's Ed Course in which no live fire training is included.
Logic is not part of the thought process.
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 04:47:56 PM
if it's up to the NRA instructor, how about we do the test at 1 foot distanceJust got off the phone with the H[awaii]PD public contact re carry. He said he believed that the instructor would be legally liable for any future mishap (ND, etc.) or misuse of a firearm by any person given a passing grade in a class s/he taught. So... there's a big disincentive to teach those classes right there (though I'm guessing that NRA instructors purchase some kind of liability insurance).
that way we can't miss
I originally asked the officer who, when, where and how much do the classes cost... and about the fact that there is no public range here. He said HPD can't get involved in that as they don't want to assume any liability for even directing anyone to a class... they are just doing what is required by law in HRS 134, and those details of no classes, no instructors, etc. are things the applicants will have to work out. smh. Seriously? What a joke!
Might as well just say "you must prove that you are an exceptional case". Oh, wait...
Post by: stangzilla on August 24, 2022, 05:01:22 PM
they have lied to me in the past
they try to get you to do things that are not the law or are not required
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 24, 2022, 05:05:39 PM
if it's up to the NRA instructor, how about we do the test at 1 foot distanceIf the law doesnt say it, can.
that way we can't miss
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 05:32:05 PM
if it's up to the NRA instructor, how about we do the test at 1 foot distanceIn the case of an attempted carjacking with you still in the driver's seat, that's a legitimate distance. Probably more like 6 inches.
that way we can't miss
I'd love to see a bunch of those criminals go down. After class certification of course.
Post by: drck1000 on August 24, 2022, 05:38:15 PM
Just got off the phone with the H[awaii]PD public contact re carry. He said he believed that the instructor would be legally liable for any future mishap (ND, etc.) or misuse of a firearm by any person given a passing grade in a class s/he taught. So... there's a big disincentive to teach those classes right there (though I'm guessing that NRA instructors purchase some kind of liability insurance).That's some BS right there. Where's said Hawaii PD public contact's law degree?
I originally asked the officer who, when, where and how much do the classes cost... and about the fact that there is no public range here. He said HPD can't get involved in that as they don't want to assume any liability for even directing anyone to a class... they are just doing what is required by law in HRS 134, and those details of no classes, no instructors, etc. are things the applicants will have to work out. smh. Seriously? What a joke!
Might as well just say "you must prove that you are an exceptional case". Oh, wait...
Post by: drck1000 on August 24, 2022, 05:38:48 PM
If the law doesnt say it, can.So, you're saying CMO has a chance? ;D
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Post by: rpoL98 on August 24, 2022, 05:51:35 PM
The Ainokea, Inogivashit permit looks better every passing minute.isn't that why the Maui case, the charge for "place to keep" was thrown out? no longer enforceable?
But as a member of this forum, I don't do anything illegal…..but isn’t the right to carry, legal?
Post by: BRU on August 24, 2022, 06:07:07 PM
Just got off the phone with the H[awaii]PD public contact re carry. He said he believed that the instructor would be legally liable for any future mishap (ND, etc.) or misuse of a firearm by any person given a passing grade in a class s/he taught. So... there's a big disincentive to teach those classes right there (though I'm guessing that NRA instructors purchase some kind of liability insurance).
I originally asked the officer who, when, where and how much do the classes cost... and about the fact that there is no public range here. He said HPD can't get involved in that as they don't want to assume any liability for even directing anyone to a class... they are just doing what is required by law in HRS 134, and those details of no classes, no instructors, etc. are things the applicants will have to work out. smh. Seriously? What a joke!
Might as well just say "you must prove that you are an exceptional case". Oh, wait...
I’m definitely not a lawyer, nor do I want to be one, but my interpretation of 134-9 leaves the police chief as the decision maker. My opinion is that if there were any legal actions taken because of an incident then the chief should be held liable because they ultimately approved the individual’s permit. HPD and MPD have an extremely vague shooting requirement that requires a state certified or NRA instructor to administer, sign, and score a shooting test. Nowhere does it state what the proficiency test needs to cover or whether the instructor needs to personally and specifically vouch that it is in their opinion that the shooter is capable of responsibly carrying in public. The police chief’s policy and lack of clarity with testing leaves the analysis of the test results in the hands of the chief. I interpret their policies as requiring the instructor to count holes on paper and calculate the percentage of hits on target.
Post by: groveler on August 24, 2022, 06:12:47 PM
Russians are learning it,
Maybe Hawaiian Democratst may get a clue.
:wtf:
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 06:14:53 PM
The basic NRA CCW class:
$275, 350 rounds ammo, 3 mags w pouches, 12 dummy rounds
[Every f*cking year... smh. Bullsh*t.]
Search of the NRA website for their NRA CCW class by location:
Within 100 miles of Hilo: "Search returns no records"
For the state of Hawaii: "Search returns no records"
Gotta love the commies running this place... they just replaced one impossibility ("exceptional case") with another (must complete class that doesn't exist).
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 24, 2022, 06:39:28 PM
Bullsh*t.!!!
Protect? :rofl: Yeah, protect their own a$$es.
Serve? Serve what, BS??? :rofl:
Right now it seems their attitude is, you want 2a rights? Jump through these hoops. Serves you right for thinking Hawaii will ever, ever follow the 2a as depicted in the Constitution.
That's the only "serve" they know.
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 07:11:41 PM
The obvious conclusion is that the traitors to their oaths of office running these shams are either oblivious useful idiots, and/or evil.
Post by: robtmc on August 24, 2022, 07:14:45 PM
They're admitting that your ability to exercise your fundamental, individual, God-given/natural, unalienable Constitutionally-protected right is contingent upon the response of other people, no matter how stupid, ignorant, paranoid, buffoonish, or idiotically moronic they might be.Of course, mixed in will be the liberal Karens that screech, point, and dial 911 on their iFags for no reason other than you exercising your right is intolerable to them.
Post by: punaperson on August 24, 2022, 07:19:21 PM
Of course, mixed in will be the liberal Karens that screech, point, and dial 911 on their iFags for no reason other than you exercising your right is intolerable to them.I include all karens, snowflakes, etc. in the "stupid, ignorant, paranoid, buffoonish, or idiotically moronic".
The really stupid (pathetic, disgusting, criminal) thing is that the cops and other government agents side with them. So much for those oaths of office to support and defend the Constitution(s).
Post by: Direjackalope on August 24, 2022, 07:24:54 PM
Post by: RSN172 on August 24, 2022, 10:42:55 PM
they gave a passing grade to, then the same should apply to driver license examiners. Outright lying bastards.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 25, 2022, 12:49:42 AM
Post by: Isaac on August 25, 2022, 06:08:54 AM
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 25, 2022, 06:30:14 AM
You really can’t make up the bullshit the 👮♀️ give you. If a NRA instructor is going to be held liable for any “mishaps” by someone
they gave a passing grade to, then the same should apply to driver license examiners. Outright lying bastards.
Hawaii's LE seems to love to pass the buck as far as responsibility. It's obvious that they are against armed citizens protecting themselves.
But that's too bad. Tough shiite. Be a professional and do your job.
Which is to vett potential gun permit applicants and issue permits to those who qualify.
All these mental health forms, and other bullsh*t forms to apply for gun permits are silly. If you own a registered firearm in Hawaii you already jumped through all the hoops already.
They are just making things difficult. And when the legislature convenes, they will think up other things. Stall tactic, kicking the can down the road, dragging their feet, whatever you want to call it just ends up in the BULLSH*T bucket.
Post by: punaperson on August 25, 2022, 07:08:54 AM
If this pisses you off then double your resolve. Blame yourself or blame no one.Could you please clarify your comments?
Could you please give five (or more) specific concrete examples of actions that would indicate a person has "double[d] [their] resolve"?
Could you please explain, specifically and concretely, how any ordinary citizen of Hawaii is blameworthy (i.e. "responsible for") any or all of the laws, rules, regulations, etc. imposed by the state and/or counties on those citizens regarding the exercise of their Second Amendment-protected fundamental individual inalienable God-given/natural rights to keep and bear arms without infringement?
If you are "pisse[d] off" about the new carry regulations, or any other Hawaii firearms related laws, rules, regulations, etc., what have you done to "double your resolve"?
If you are not "pisse[d] off" about such laws, rules, and regulations, what is your emotional response to the new carry regulations and/or all the other Hawaii firearms regulations?
Are you claiming that you "blame yourself" for the new carry regulations? If so, in what way, exactly. If not, do you really claim that "no one" is responsible for those law, rules, and regulations?
Thank you for your clarifications.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 25, 2022, 09:00:59 AM
Logan was on the radio and asked if his approving CCW's by the end of August which he stated multiple times is still accurate. He said no. He said he cannot just change the requirements, there needs to be a public hearing, which will probably happen in Sept. So there is now no ETA on approvals. He did say that those who already applied will not have to reapply, but just add what ever is required. He also stated that he has not reviewed any apps. As of yesterday he said there are 333 CCW applications.
So goal post moving at it's finest. This will go down as the great scewjob of 2022. F
First Logan said he needs to wait for clarification. Then the AG completed this.
Then he said he needs to get all the other counties on the same page (Big Island already posted their CCW requirements via their Hawaii PD website)
Then he said he plans on approving at latest end of Aug (2 months after SCOTUS ruling and 6 weeks after AG memo about good moral character and exceptional circumstance)
Then comes end of Aug and he now says a public hearing needs to be held about the requirements.
I'll bet after this hearing, there will be additional hearing s and committees. And then he will state awaiting on Young being re-ruled. Basically a stall tactic until the next legislative session, which I expect CA/NY type of law to be pushed thru.
So I state again, CORRUPTION!!!!!
Modify message
Post by: punaperson on August 25, 2022, 09:03:58 AM
I think everyone is too focused on the test and less on this:Yeah, that's some totally tyrannical commie secret police bullsh*t, BUT IT IS NOT NEW AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF THE HPD CARRY APPLICATION.
https://www.hawaiipolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/6.-License-to-Carry-Waiver-of-Liability-Form-082422.pdf
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 25, 2022, 09:07:07 AM
Logan was on the radio and asked if his approving CCW's by the end of August which he stated multiple times is still accurate. He said no. He said he cannot just change the requirements, there needs to be a public hearing, which will probably happen in Sept. So there is now no ETA on approvals. He did say that those who already applied will not have to reapply, but just add what ever is required. He also stated that he has not reviewed any apps. As of yesterday he said there are 333 CCW applications.
So goal post moving at it's finest. This will go down as the great scewjob of 2022. F
First Logan said he needs to wait for clarification. Then the AG completed this.
Then he said he needs to get all the other counties on the same page (Big Island already posted their CCW requirements via their Hawaii PD website)
Then he said he plans on approving at latest end of Aug (2 months after SCOTUS ruling and 6 weeks after AG memo about good moral character and exceptional circumstance)
Then comes end of Aug and he now says a public hearing needs to be held about the requirements.
I'll bet after this hearing, there will be additional hearing s and committees. And then he will state awaiting on Young being re-ruled. Basically a stall tactic until the next legislative session, which I expect CA/NY type of law to be pushed thru.
So I state again, CORRUPTION!!!!!
Modify message
What a fucking piece of shit. Here I was waiting eagerly for well over a month to get my permit this week. Now that’s being taken. We need to end this corruption and end the careers of those appointed “over us”. We certainly didn’t have any say in the matter. This is bull shit. I knew I should’ve just automatically assumed he was lying to shut us up. He is a traitor to the Constitution. The fact that Maui has already issued a CCW permit and Big Island published their new CCW application process means that Logan is a tyrannical liar and is now without doubt stalling. I was hoping there was some chance to see that he would keep his word, but now I’m not even surprised and know he absolutely cannot be trusted.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 25, 2022, 09:09:39 AM
Yeah, that's some totally tyrannical commie secret police bullsh*t, BUT IT IS NOT NEW AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF THE HPD CARRY APPLICATION.
CA/NY style new requirement without stating a social media check.
Post by: punaperson on August 25, 2022, 09:16:54 AM
Logan was on the radio and asked if his approving CCW's by the end of August which he stated multiple times is still accurate. He said no. He said he cannot just change the requirements, there needs to be a public hearing, which will probably happen in Sept. So there is now no ETA on approvals. He did say that those who already applied will not have to reapply, but just add what ever is required. He also stated that he has not reviewed any apps. As of yesterday he said there are 333 CCW applications.Gee, nobody saw that coming, right?! LOL! Hey, don't be too hard on the guy. He's just celebrating, in his own way, the glorious 30 year anniversary of one of law enforcement's brightest weeks, Ruby Ridge, where the lying sacks of sh*t FBI et al. law enforcement scum murdered people and dogs for no reason other than to intimidate and make an example for the rest of the uninfringed population who might not want to follow their arbitrary and capricious ludicrous "rules" ("That barrel has to be this many inches long... or we're gonna f*cking come hunt you down and kill your f*cking family"). Can't wait to see what this lying piece of sh*t comes up with to celebrate Waco.
So goal post moving at it's finest. This will go down as the great scewjob of 2022. F
First Logan said he needs to wait for clarification. Then the AG completed this.
Then he said he needs to get all the other counties on the same page (Big Island already posted their CCW requirements via their Hawaii PD website)
Then he said he plans on approving at latest end of Aug (2 months after SCOTUS ruling and 6 weeks after AG memo about good moral character and exceptional circumstance)
Then comes end of Aug and he now says a public hearing needs to be held about the requirements.
I'll bet after this hearing, there will be additional hearing s and committees. And then he will state awaiting on Young being re-ruled. Basically a stall tactic until the next legislative session, which I expect CA/NY type of law to be pushed thru.
So I state again, CORRUPTION!!!!!
Modify message
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 25, 2022, 09:17:06 AM
But deep inside all of us, the possibility of BS, stalling, dragging their feet, whatever you want to call this, we knew this was a big possibility.
But we hoped for the best and we got steaming sh*t in return.
I bet most of us are not surprised. We do, after all, live in Hawaii.
LOL, the best is Logan mentioning there needs to be a public hearing........LOL!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: robtmc on August 25, 2022, 09:21:19 AM
whatever you want to call this, we knew this was aFIFYbig possibilityCERTAINTY.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 25, 2022, 09:24:04 AM
The inconsistencies are glaring.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 25, 2022, 09:29:47 AM
I think everyone is too focused on the test and less on this:
https://www.hawaiipolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/6.-License-to-Carry-Waiver-of-Liability-Form-082422.pdf
For those who didn't click or won't click:
"In order to permit the Hawai‘i Police Department, hereafter referred to as the “Department,” to make a thorough investigation of my background, family, personal habits, and reputation for the purpose of determining my fitness and suitability for a License to Carry a Firearm in the County of Hawai‘i: I, ___________________________________________, applicant, hereby release from liability and promise to hold harmless from any liability under any and all possible causes of legal action any and all persons that shall furnish any information or opinions regarding applicant’s background, family, personal habits or reputation in order to determine whether applicant is able to meet the qualifications to carry a firearm in the County of Hawai‘i."
Post by: punaperson on August 25, 2022, 09:30:41 AM
So, if the Big Island (Hawaii County) is already posting their procedures, are they violating the law that requires a public hearing?I wanna see the public hearing part where someone (public or member) asks "How can a requirement for a license be something that doesn't exist?" (i.e. there is no NRA (nor "state certified") CCW live fire class in Hawaii... at the time they published the criteria/applications). You're gonna hear some real commie doublespeak in response to that.
The inconsistencies are glaring.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 25, 2022, 09:32:56 AM
Can a public hearing that shows majority opposition to the subject on hand overturn a SCOTUS decision?
Logan wants a public hearing knowing damn well a whole sh*tload of KARENS will show up, along with the Kumbaya brigade.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 25, 2022, 09:40:15 AM
If issued in Honolulu County, you can only carry in that county. You have to apply in your county of residence. That leaves no option for carrying on neighbor islands.
Every other state I know of that had restrictions in a given county were overturned. If the license is issued by the county, it is a statewide license. Limiting to a county is no different than limiting a New Yorker from carrying outside Manhattan. The "sensitive places" limits must be based on reasonable, historical assessment: schools, banks, federal buildings, courthouses, etc. To say "All neighbor islands are off limits" is too broad.
This limitation needs to be challenged. Otherwise, taking a vacation or business trip to another island effectively disarms you for that timeframe.
Post by: punaperson on August 25, 2022, 09:41:35 AM
What is a public hearing going to do?Did Logan state specifically under what legal authority a "hearing" is required? Or is he just making sh*t up again?
Can a public hearing that shows majority opposition to the subject on hand overturn a SCOTUS decision?
Logan wants a public hearing knowing damn well a whole sh*tload of KARENS will show up, along with the Kumbaya brigade.
It will certainly be a preview of the legislative agenda to follow, including delineating exactly where bearing arms will be allowed, and NOT allowed. My guess: bearing arms will be allowed in approximately 2% of the land mass of Hawaii. That seems like the typical common sense gun safety policy and would not be an infringement of a God-given natural right because no right is absolute.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 25, 2022, 09:44:06 AM
Did Logan state specifically under what legal authority a "hearing" is required? Or is he just making sh*t up again?
It will certainly be a preview of the legislative agenda to follow, including delineating exactly where bearing arms will be allowed, and NOT allowed. My guess: bearing arms will be allowed in approximately 2% of the land mass of Hawaii. That seems like the typical common sense gun safety policy and would not be an infringement of a God-given natural right because no right is absolute.
They already tipped their hand on that.
All private businesses BY DEFAULT are "No Carry" establishments unless they post a notice allowing it.
So, until businesses that decide to allow it post signs, this "rule" means 100% of private businesses are gun free zones.
I think NY and/or CA is having a similar scheme challenged in court.
Post by: punaperson on August 25, 2022, 09:49:53 AM
I will let you all know what I receive when I get the info. Curious to see how the firearms proficiency requirement was met within 90 days prior to application.
* * * *
This is an official UIPA request.
Please provide me with all documents, electronic or paper, related to the application, consideration, evaluation and granting of a carry license by Maui Police Department (MPD) as recently reported by KHON news outlet.
https://www.khon2.com/local-news/maui-issues-first-concealed-carry-permit?utm_source=khon_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link
PLEASE NOTE: I AM NOT SEEKING THE IDENTITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL GRANTED THE LICENSE NOR ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION THAT MIGHT LEAD TO THE IDENTITY OF SAID LICENSEE. THE NAME, ADDRESS, ETC. OF THE APPLICANT MAY BE REDACTED.
thank you,
name
mailing address
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 25, 2022, 09:57:39 AM
Did Logan state specifically under what legal authority a "hearing" is required? Or is he just making sh*t up again?
It will certainly be a preview of the legislative agenda to follow, including delineating exactly where bearing arms will be allowed, and NOT allowed. My guess: bearing arms will be allowed in approximately 2% of the land mass of Hawaii. That seems like the typical common sense gun safety policy and would not be an infringement of a God-given natural right because no right is absolute.
He mentioned something about a 1982 thing. I don't remember, but you can listen to the show yourself. It was toward the end of the 1 hour segment. Like last 10 mins or so.
BI held no such hearing, well that we know of because no one was invited, so like someone else mentioned, did BI violate this 1982 law/requirement?
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 25, 2022, 09:58:49 AM
I think NY and/or CA is having a similar scheme challenged in court.
They are, but until it's ruled upon, the law can stay as is. Basically a "F-U, sue us" from them. I can't wait to see what HI does when our leg session starts.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 25, 2022, 11:02:42 AM
Right now national odds are 50/50, but as citizens continue to lose faith in the justice system and stop testifying that ratio of failed investigations will only get worse.
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/police-in-us-struggle-to-close-cases-as-unsolved-murders-rise/#x
The chief is undermining his own credibility while simultaneously encouraging criminality in order to score liberal political points.
No wonder his own son turned out so awful.
This guy gives morons a bad name.
Post by: zippz on August 25, 2022, 11:21:58 AM
The actual problem to complain about is it should've been done earlier, and permits applied for already need to be issued under current policy without delay.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 25, 2022, 11:37:06 AM
Quote
The undersigned hereby authorizes any person or legal entity who may be contacted by Department
officers, employees, or agents to release and transmit to such officers, employees, or agents, any
information, data, or opinions they may have regarding my background, family, personal habits or
reputation. Further, the undersigned waives for this purpose any and all legal privileges I may have to
maintain such information as confidential, including but not limited to the following
privileges: attorney-client, clergyman-penitent, husband-wife, physician-patient, psychologist-client,
creditor-customer, and accountant-client.
The fact that they would have the balls to ask for this stuff just shows how illegitimate their authority is and how poorly they understand their position
They think their power comes from the barrels of their guns and not the consent of the governed.
Only the most feckless of morons would scream from the rooftops:
“CRIMINALS HAVE MORE RIGHTS!”
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 25, 2022, 12:16:25 PM
The public review is a good thing, to be able to see and provide input on something before it's implemented. It should be done in all counties.
The actual problem to complain about is it should've been done earlier, and permits applied for already need to be issued under current policy without delay.
The problem will be is that they won't listen much to our side and do what they "feel" is in the best interest of public safety. The public hearing is all smoke and mirrors. But we still have to show up. No come, no grumble.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 25, 2022, 12:16:53 PM
I didn't have such a form for when I filled out my application. This waver is worse than the test requirement in my opinion. You are giving up more freedoms to gain just one back.
The form is basically a way where they can delve into every aspect of your life, convolute what they find, spin the information in their favor if they want to......
and there is nothing that you can do about it. There is no pathway for re-course on your part.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 25, 2022, 12:27:30 PM
The public review is a good thing, to be able to see and provide input on something before it's implemented. It should be done in all counties.
The actual problem to complain about is it should've been done earlier, and permits applied for already need to be issued under current policy without delay.
To me this alone shows they (HPD, County LE, and State) are not acting in good faith. They are stalling, deferring, and shooting BS out of their A$$es.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 25, 2022, 12:33:31 PM
To me this alone shows they (HPD, County LE, and State) are not acting in good faith. They are stalling, deferring, and shooting BS out of their A$$es.
That's why I mentioned the new chief was corrupt and was doubted by 1 person here.
Post by: punaperson on August 25, 2022, 02:18:34 PM
Someone who just got certified is hoping to start doing the CCW proficiency class in a week or two.
$300.
Discount (unstated) for annual renewal.
If the requirement is 350 rounds, as per other (mainland) NRA CCW class, In Hilo 9mm target ammo is $168 for 350 rounds.
Hollow point would be $350 for 350 rounds, but my source said he expects the instructor would allow target ammo for the certification.
Might need extra mags and pouches for them and the dummy rounds.
That puts the minimum cost at around $500... or $700 if required to use self-defense ammo.
YIKES!
That's a big dip out of the pot for those on fixed incomes, and in the lower economic brackets... who can barely afford food and gas and medical care these days.
I also wonder even if one jumps successfully through all the current hoops if "something else" "unforeseen" just might "come up" and delay or negate the issuance of licenses.
The people I
Post by: zippz on August 25, 2022, 02:41:43 PM
Via grapevine (highly reliable source... former NRA-certified instructor):
Someone who just got certified is hoping to start doing the CCW proficiency class in a week or two.
$300.
If this is a full one day defensive shooting class then it would be worth it. If just the test, then a ripoff.
A more reasonable charge just for the test would be $50-$75 To cover insurance, supplies, time, some profit, and there is some legal liability involved. It could be done at MM16 range.
I might go down there to give the test. But that liability waiver has to be addressed first.
Post by: zippz on August 25, 2022, 02:54:51 PM
] Further, the undersigned waives for this purpose any and all legal privileges I may have to
maintain such information as confidential, including but not limited to the following
privileges: attorney-client, clergyman-penitent, husband-wife, physician-patient, psychologist-client,
creditor-customer, and accountant-client.[/b][/u]
I can see the county trying to get away with all the other stuff, but I'm surprised they're brash enough to include these. They go all out and swing for the fences.
Post by: Alika on August 25, 2022, 04:34:14 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 25, 2022, 06:39:45 PM
Via grapevine (highly reliable source... former NRA-certified instructor):
Someone who just got certified is hoping to start doing the CCW proficiency class in a week or two.
$300.
Discount (unstated) for annual renewal.
If the requirement is 350 rounds, as per other (mainland) NRA CCW class, In Hilo 9mm target ammo is $168 for 350 rounds.
Hollow point would be $350 for 350 rounds, but my source said he expects the instructor would allow target ammo for the certification.
Might need extra mags and pouches for them and the dummy rounds.
That puts the minimum cost at around $500... or $700 if required to use self-defense ammo.
YIKES!
That's a big dip out of the pot for those on fixed incomes, and in the lower economic brackets... who can barely afford food and gas and medical care these days.
I also wonder even if one jumps successfully through all the current hoops if "something else" "unforeseen" just might "come up" and delay or negate the issuance of licenses.
The people Iknowhave heard of who carry, and have been carrying for years, don't seem all that interested in the new rules and getting a license. Gee, I wonder why?
Wow, that is some mean expenses for a CCW permit. Not to mention HP ammunition is not as readily available like range ammo. It wasn't too long ago when the LGS's were limiting purchases to 1 (50 rd) box, lol!!
But the costs to do this is very prohibitive even with the annual re-new "discount".
Post by: groveler on August 25, 2022, 06:58:22 PM
I guess the way the chief sees it, we’re all criminals until proven innocentI said I would not post any more,
but you got this one right,
Fucking cops!
:wave:
Post by: Brystont1 on August 25, 2022, 07:02:14 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on August 25, 2022, 07:30:43 PM
Post by: pacwire on August 25, 2022, 07:39:26 PM
I'm very disappointed with Chief Logan. (But not Surprised). After all, Hawaii is a pretty "Blue" state.
I guess everyone that "swears" on the "BIBLE" to Uphold our "LAWS" are really All for themselves and not interested in doing what is "right" based on the Supreme Court of the United State and our Second Amendment Right!
Anyway, Wow ! After Reading what people posted i for one would like to be a "certified" NRA CCW instructor? No downside right?
In all honesty, i have a few mainland trips planned. Better look into this/. Since I was going to "shoot" there anyway......
Hmm I wonder if the CCW NRA instructor was based in another state. Would their certification work?
Everyone Be SAVE!
Aloha!
Post by: zippz on August 25, 2022, 07:42:08 PM
Hmm I wonder if the CCW NRA instructor was based in another state. Would their certification work?
Everyone Be SAVE!
Aloha!
NRA CCW Instructor is a national certification, but the class can be adapted to meet a state's requiremetns.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 25, 2022, 07:49:42 PM
Via grapevine (highly reliable source... former NRA-certified instructor):Sounds like this is a cert to for others to teach a nra ccw class. If this is just for students to get a ccw, its very overpriced.
Someone who just got certified is hoping to start doing the CCW proficiency class in a week or two.
$300.
Discount (unstated) for annual renewal.
If the requirement is 350 rounds, as per other (mainland) NRA CCW class, In Hilo 9mm target ammo is $168 for 350 rounds.
Hollow point would be $350 for 350 rounds, but my source said he expects the instructor would allow target ammo for the certification.
Might need extra mags and pouches for them and the dummy rounds.
That puts the minimum cost at around $500... or $700 if required to use self-defense ammo.
YIKES!
That's a big dip out of the pot for those on fixed incomes, and in the lower economic brackets... who can barely afford food and gas and medical care these days.
I also wonder even if one jumps successfully through all the current hoops if "something else" "unforeseen" just might "come up" and delay or negate the issuance of licenses.
The people Iknowhave heard of who carry, and have been carrying for years, don't seem all that interested in the new rules and getting a license. Gee, I wonder why?
NV shoot test for ccw is less than 50rds, and more like 30 or so.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
*Update
For reference, the CCW class required to get your NV permit cost from $100-$250 and ammo is included.
Post by: Direjackalope on August 25, 2022, 07:58:31 PM
If this is a full one day defensive shooting class then it would be worth it. If just the test, then a ripoff.
A more reasonable charge just for the test would be $50-$75 To cover insurance, supplies, time, some profit, and there is some legal liability involved. It could be done at MM16 range.
I might go down there to give the test. But that liability waiver has to be addressed first.
Any chance HiFiCo would put on the classes and tack on a few bucks to the sticker price to help fund the lawyer war chest? No need to answer, just food for thought.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 25, 2022, 08:47:29 PM
There's 1 million plus people in this damn state and he wants a public hearing and talks BS about making sure all procedures are in place, yada....yada.....
What is he concerned about? Wild, Wild West? Increased firearm violence?
Talk about looking at a glass half empty. How about looking at it half full? Those 333 applicants are law-abiding citizens that already jumped through the many communist, unconstitutional hoops to own firearms. They are already vetted.
Has he even thought of (or refused to admit) that issuing CCW permits might actually deter and reduce crime in our state?
Post by: aieahound on August 25, 2022, 09:21:07 PM
This is just hysteria.
Public hearing for 333 already permitted and registered firearm owners who’ve passed every legal requirement in place. :wtf:
And that Hawaii PD Waiver / Hold Harmless is batshi+!
Post by: stangzilla on August 26, 2022, 07:38:59 AM
how many rounds does HPD use for their test?
if the civilian test is stricter than the HPD test, then that is major BS!!!
i heard the retired LEO ccw live round test is less than 20-30 rounds
Post by: zippz on August 26, 2022, 08:10:40 AM
Any chance HiFiCo would put on the classes and tack on a few bucks to the sticker price to help fund the lawyer war chest? No need to answer, just food for thought.
Not under hifico, but I'll do a couple classes and train some CCW instructors.
Post by: punaperson on August 26, 2022, 08:21:07 AM
Not under hifico, but I'll do a couple classes and train some CCW instructors.Todd, you da man!
Too bad there is an endless stream of new bullshit you have to take on in addition to the gigantic pile already sitting there. smh.
Thank you very much for all you do. Don't have words for the appreciation. :shaka:
Post by: bass monkey on August 26, 2022, 08:37:05 AM
Shooting qualifications should be 20 rounds max
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 26, 2022, 09:09:12 AM
Not under hifico, but I'll do a couple classes and train some CCW instructors.
Sign me up please
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 26, 2022, 09:19:56 AM
I for one really want to see the ball rolling on this. Especially given SCOTUS ruling came out months ago and NY and CA have already implemented AND issued CCW permits and our state “mirrors” them?
I personally believe that legal action is both necessary and justified, due to his publicly informing citizens that permits will be signed off and issued by the end of August (with no clear, concise mention of potential for delay) and now a true stall tactic being used of going against his own word and now adding legally unnecessary delays to that already shady “word” of his
I want to donate
Post by: robtmc on August 26, 2022, 10:33:53 AM
They can kiss my arse at Lahaina noon.
The undersigned hereby authorizes any person or legal entity who may be contacted by Department
officers, employees, or agents to release and transmit to such officers, employees, or agents, any
information, data, or opinions they may have regarding my background, family, personal habits or
reputation. Further, the undersigned waives for this purpose any and all legal privileges I may have to
maintain such information as confidential, including but not limited to the following
privileges: attorney-client, clergyman-penitent, husband-wife, physician-patient, psychologist-client,
creditor-customer, and accountant-client.[/u]
Refused to join in Rapback, will not give them free permission to dig into my life now.
Post by: zippz on August 26, 2022, 10:49:58 AM
Looking into it.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 26, 2022, 11:06:47 AM
Most people will gloss over the waiver and just sign it. But it's actually a bigger issue than the delays in getting a permit. It takes things to a whole nother level.
Looking into it.
I agree. I'm not very well versed in legalese and it was confusing for me when I first read it. But I read it several times and to me it kinda reminds me of those movies where you sign in blood and hand over your soul to the devil.
In this case the "soul" is your private life and the freedoms you have as a United States Citizen.
But remember, we live in Hawaii......
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 26, 2022, 11:34:10 AM
I agree. I'm not very well versed in legalese and it was confusing for me when I first read it. But I read it several times and to me it kinda reminds me of those movies where you sign in blood and hand over your soul to the devil.
In this case the "soul" is your private life and the freedoms you have as a United States Citizen.
But remember, we live in Hawaii......
I'm surprised they didn't just boil it down to you voluntarily waiving all rights under the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments.
No right to bear arms unless privileged to do so by the state, no right to be secure in your persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, no need to obtain any warrants for any reason thereby allowing the state to seize you and/or your property without probable cause, no right to due process, and you can be compelled to bear witness against yourself by volunteering every facet of information on you that exists anywhere, including that information ordinarily protected under professional ethics standards (lawyer, doctor, pharmacist, etc.).
Post by: ren on August 26, 2022, 11:55:19 AM
In full with bolded
In order to permit the Hawai‘i Police Department, hereafter referred to as the “Department,” to make a
thorough investigation of my background, family, personal habits, and reputation for the purpose of
determining my fitness and suitability for a License to Carry a Firearm in the County of Hawai‘i:
I, ___________________________________________, applicant, hereby release from liability and
promise to hold harmless from any liability under any and all possible causes of legal action any and
all persons that shall furnish any information or opinions regarding applicant’s background, family,
personal habits or reputation in order to determine whether applicant is able to meet the qualifications
to carry a firearm in the County of Hawai‘i.
The undersigned hereby authorizes any person or legal entity who may be contacted by Department
officers, employees, or agents to release and transmit to such officers, employees, or agents, any
information, data, or opinions they may have regarding my background, family, personal habits or
reputation. Further, the undersigned waives for this purpose any and all legal privileges I may have to
maintain such information as confidential, including but not limited to the following
privileges: attorney-client, clergyman-penitent, husband-wife, physician-patient, psychologist-client,
creditor-customer, and accountant-client.[/u]
The undersigned further agrees to hold harmless and release from liability under any and all possible
causes of legal action the Department, its officers, its employees, and its agents, for any
statements, acts, or omissions in the course of its investigation into applicant’s background,
family, personal habits, and reputation.
I further realize that it is necessary for the Department to thoroughly investigate all aspects
of applicant’s personal background and qualifications and, by applying for a License to Carry a
Firearm in the County of Hawai‘i, I expressly waive all of my legal rights and causes of action to
the extent that the Hawai‘i Police Department investigation (for purposes of evaluating my
suitability or application to carry a firearm) may violate or infringe upon these aforementioned
legal rights and causes of action. I hereby authorize the Department to reproduce this form to be
used solely for the purposes of my Application for a License to Carry a Firearm in the County of
Hawai‘i.
This release from liability given by the undersigned to the Department, its officers, employees, agents,
and all others as heretofore provided, shall apply to any right of action that might accrue to the
undersigned, my heirs, and personal representatives.
is any of that legal? If so, do the police officers who have carry rights oblige to that as well?
Post by: zippz on August 26, 2022, 11:55:37 AM
... you sign in blood and hand over your soul to the devil.
Blackmail or gestapo is a easier way to explain it.
Post by: punaperson on August 26, 2022, 11:57:24 AM
I'm surprised they didn't just boil it down to you voluntarily waiving all rights under the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments.My take is that the scenario you outline already exists de facto (see: keep and bear "limitations", "asset forfeiture", law enforcement and judicial and political "corruption", etc.). The state of Hawaii may not have access to every shred of information about individuals that exists electronically, but as multiple whistleblowers have indicated, various federal agencies and black budget ops do. Here the county is just asking you to save them the time and trouble of trying to get the spying agencies to turn over the information. We (ordinary law-abiding citizens) have no right to bear arms for self-defense in Hawaii. Even if several (or several hundred) licenses are eventually issued, they will be encumbered by even more "restrictions" on where, when, and how you may exercise your right, essentially making it not a right at all and highly ineffective for actual self-defense except for limited circumstances and locations. That's not a right, that's a (barely meaningful) privilege.
No right to bear arms unless privileged to do so by the state, no right to be secure in your persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, no need to obtain any warrants for any reason thereby allowing the state to seize you and/or your property without probable cause, no right to due process, and you can be compelled to bear witness against yourself by volunteering every facet of information on you that exists anywhere, including that information ordinarily protected under professional ethics standards (lawyer, doctor, pharmacist, etc.).
That being said, I hope someone sues the sh*t out of them and wins a financially crippling victory.
Post by: Rhed on August 26, 2022, 12:03:42 PM
https://youtu.be/xL3mVfpDPrc
Post by: punaperson on August 26, 2022, 01:12:54 PM
Not about Hawaii but similar..Yeah, Marxist-Stalinists are the same everywhere.
https://youtu.be/xL3mVfpDPrc
I'm totally with the host in that there should be no involvement at all, of any kind, with any government agency or agent to exercise any enumerated right. (No registration, no BATFE, no bullsh*t limitations on barrel lengths and mag capacity, etc., NO licenses, permits, classes, tests, etc., etc., etc. NADA! F*CK OFF!)
I'm a little surprised at the proficiency test specifics:
3. Safely load the firearm with five rounds of ammunition. Not holster the loaded
firearm. Maintain a ready position with the firearm safely pointed downrange.
4. On the Instructor’s command to fire, aim at the target and fire all five rounds from
a standing position, from a distance of 4 yards. The target must be a 25 ½ inch
by 11-inch paper target. At least four out of the five rounds must be on target.
I think even I might be able to pass that! Maybe. How many tries do I get? 350 rounds worth?
Post by: robtmc on August 26, 2022, 02:44:33 PM
I think even I might be able to pass that! Maybe. How many tries do I get? 350 rounds worth?Notice no mention of dominant or weak hand, or if two hand hold is allowed.
Post by: punaperson on August 26, 2022, 03:28:39 PM
Notice no mention of dominant or weak hand, or if two hand hold is allowed.Yeah... no draw from concealed holster and no apparent time limit. That's why I said maybe I could pass. Seems completely "unrealistic" as to any real world draw-and-shoot scenario, but hey, it's the government! I'd have thought they'd want 5 of 5 on target at 8 yards in under 3 seconds. :shaka:
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 26, 2022, 03:31:22 PM
Not about Hawaii but similar..
https://youtu.be/xL3mVfpDPrc
Hawaii sort of falls in step behind New York and California. Same mindset (insane). :rofl:
Post by: stangzilla on August 26, 2022, 04:28:06 PM
Karl Rhoads says, “To carry a gun in public, that means you’re afraid of something,” he said. “I wonder what it is that people are so afraid of. Because life in Hawaii isn’t all that violent.”
then all cops are scared, bc they all carry in public
Post by: WTF?Shane on August 26, 2022, 04:37:46 PM
Karl Rhoads says, “To carry a gun in public, that means you’re afraid of something,” he said. “I wonder what it is that people are so afraid of. Because life in Hawaii Kai isn’t all that violent.”
He misspoke. I fixed the quote for you. :thumbsup:
Post by: stangzilla on August 26, 2022, 04:44:08 PM
He misspoke. I fixed the quote for you. :thumbsup:
gotta watch out for them violent cats in HI Kai
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 26, 2022, 04:49:12 PM
https://apnews.com/article/us-supreme-court-police-gun-politics-hawaii-honolulu-e825dd37368ebb6814c6dc1d02ffed90?fbclid=IwAR1QGhL-sB5-ZLqpW_xAnpzzeMoXMFYYmgWfsrEIdiFR1Nvu7eYBweXV5v8
Karl Rhoads says, “To carry a gun in public, that means you’re afraid of something,” he said. “I wonder what it is that people are so afraid of. Because life in Hawaii isn’t all that violent.”
then all cops are scared, bc they all carry in public
Rhoads rhymes with Toads because they both live under a rock. Where the hell has he been lately. Isn't China town in his district where somebody shot a woman in the head?
And he must not be listening to the residents there. They are concerned. And very afraid. Crime is rising there and in many other places in the state.
Rhoad the Toad obviously doesn't respect the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution. We only have one life, and we want to live that life free and happy with our loved ones. The fear that some asshat will take our life or the life of our loved ones and we don't have a means to stop it is real and documented.
Do Toads have more than one life? Maybe that's why he said that stupid remark.
Post by: rpoL98 on August 26, 2022, 06:48:46 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on August 26, 2022, 07:22:05 PM
He misspoke. I fixed the quote for you. :thumbsup:
Except that’s were a friend of mine was murdered 2 years ago. Kahala is not even safe any more.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 26, 2022, 10:54:22 PM
Sort of like when Pee Wee Herman puts his hands over his ears, closes his eyes, then shakes his head back and forth while saying "Lalalalalalalalalalalalala".
This behavior is called refusing to acknowledge the truth........
Post by: punaperson on August 27, 2022, 06:27:10 AM
New York has continued to be in the news with its new concealed handgun law going into effect in the next week. I discuss the law in a piece at The Federalist [https://crimepreventionresearchcenter.nationbuilder.com/r?u=VXhonUob8h_X67qZqTDLXV02LYddUCGh9lnudJnvjAqM_qJA3q6O9YEpMqE2k_gFSuY6bD7pGwjc8C1pEU8Elewh934kIgem1NiytfiR8VBdCGtvJw2U1OElKyBB7laFFwOQjCjcfNKI3zAYvYrFLedY-uGYWGONsa5S9c9MkYs&e=2b2e2b99b067c924d4ce27bad29a173a&utm_source=crimepreventionresearchcenter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=august_27_2022&n=15 (https://crimepreventionresearchcenter.nationbuilder.com/r?u=VXhonUob8h_X67qZqTDLXV02LYddUCGh9lnudJnvjAqM_qJA3q6O9YEpMqE2k_gFSuY6bD7pGwjc8C1pEU8Elewh934kIgem1NiytfiR8VBdCGtvJw2U1OElKyBB7laFFwOQjCjcfNKI3zAYvYrFLedY-uGYWGONsa5S9c9MkYs&e=2b2e2b99b067c924d4ce27bad29a173a&utm_source=crimepreventionresearchcenter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=august_27_2022&n=15)], and I explain how it replaces a “proper cause” or “good reason” requirement with an equally arbitrary “good moral character” requirement. It also will ban being able to carry a concealed handgun in virtually every place in the state. Even more bizarrely, New York Governor Hochul (D) just announced that the government will scour people’s social media accounts and ask their neighbors whether applicants are “espousing philosophies that indicate they have been radicalized.” On top of all that, the NYPD indicates it could take years before they get around to reviewing permit applications that they previously rejected under the “proper cause” requirement.
Post by: punaperson on August 27, 2022, 06:37:51 AM
Dumb*ss Karl Rhoads says, “To carry a spare tire and jack in your car, that means you’re afraid of something,” he said. “I wonder what it is that people are so afraid of. Because there aren't that many flat tires in Hawaii.”
Dumb*ss Karl Rhoads says, “To have extra water and food stored, that means you’re afraid of something,” he said. “I wonder what it is that people are so afraid of. Because there are almost no infrastructure disabling hurricanes in Hawaii.”
Dumb*ss Karl Rhoads says, “To own an emergency medical supplies kit, that means you’re afraid of something,” he said. “I wonder what it is that people are so afraid of. Because medical emergencies are rare in Hawaii.”
Dumb*ss Karl Rhoads says, “To have a fire extinguisher in your home, that means you’re afraid of something,” he said. “I wonder what it is that people are so afraid of. Because there aren't that many home fires in Hawaii.”
Etc., etc., etc.
This d*ckwad can't comprehend the difference between fear and rational logical preparedness (for low probability events) without fear. But that's no surprise because rocks rarely have high levels of comprehension.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 27, 2022, 06:55:51 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on August 27, 2022, 08:48:31 AM
Post by: aieahound on August 27, 2022, 08:57:36 AM
Headline:
Experts worried about spate of violent crimes on Oahu
https://www.kitv.com/news/experts-worried-about-spate-of-violent-crimes-on-oahu/article_e53a9c20-bf93-11ec-b3ae-efff67faa9f8.html
From April and updated in May 2022.
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 27, 2022, 10:16:19 AM
Just checked this morning. Something’s going on. I do not have the patience nor the mental strength right now to decipher and translate everything all at once.
Let me know what you think.
https://www.honolulupd.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/HPD-Rules-of-the-Chief-of-Police.pdf (document can be viewed and downloaded)
Post by: groveler on August 27, 2022, 10:31:42 AM
WELL, WELL, WELL. Let’s see what HPD is up to now. HRS Chief’s Rules has bean repealed and modified. I’ll include the link to HPD’s site.Fuck them.
Just checked this morning. Something’s going on. I do no have the patience done the mental strength right now to decipher and translate everything all at once.
Let me know what you think.
https://www.honolulupd.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/HPD-Rules-of-the-Chief-of-Police.pdf
**photo for attention**
God gave me rights.
Not a fucking cop.
:thumbsup:
Post by: mrgaf on August 27, 2022, 12:28:29 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 27, 2022, 12:42:54 PM
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 27, 2022, 12:51:40 PM
Wonder who that one guy in Maui is. He got one. How the f**k did that happen.
Not sure how accurate the info is, but I read that it was a LEOSA qualified person so would’ve been given to him anyway
Post by: ren on August 27, 2022, 02:45:29 PM
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 27, 2022, 02:47:54 PM
Didn't all these elected officials took an oath to uphold the Constitution? A ruling by the SCOTUS and they are just denying citizens' rights? They should be kicked out of office.
No, they only swear to the Constitution if it benefits them
Post by: hvybarrels on August 27, 2022, 03:31:54 PM
(https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/YJwTUr7G7mqMKSNoCPeRGc-1200-80.gif)
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 27, 2022, 04:01:12 PM
Not sure how accurate the info is, but I read that it was a LEOSA qualified person so would’ve been given to him anyway
Oh, ok. Maybe the other 4 or so given in the past 20 years were LEOSA also. Or maybe a politicians friend or family.
But not one of us law-abiding, responsible, and tax-paying citizens, the backbone of a civil society. In their eyes we are criminals with bad intentions for wanting to carry firearms to protect ourselves and our loved ones.
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 27, 2022, 06:57:05 PM
Oh, ok. Maybe the other 4 or so given in the past 20 years were LEOSA also. Or maybe a politicians friend or family.
But not one of us law-abiding, responsible, and tax-paying citizens, the backbone of a civil society. In their eyes we are criminals with bad intentions for wanting to carry firearms to protect ourselves and our loved ones.
I wish they’d all just f u c k o f f
Post by: punaperson on August 27, 2022, 08:51:13 PM
Wonder who that one guy in Maui is. He got one. How the f**k did that happen.Maui PD responded to my official UIPA request for all information/application consideration, evaluation, etc. yesterday, Friday August 26, at 6 PM.
The official response is "We need to speak to another [unnamed] person before providing any information."
I plan to call the UIPA office on Monday and ask specifically what this means. Maui PD has two weeks to provide a further response.
I told them I don't want any personal information re the identity of the applicant, just how the application was filled out and how the information was evaluated to issue a license.
As I wrote elsewhere, I'm particularly interested in what proficiency course he took and passed within 90 days prior to the application, as required.
Post by: punaperson on August 27, 2022, 08:57:27 PM
Oh, ok. Maybe the other 4 or so given in the past 20 years were LEOSA also. Or maybe a politicians friend or family.The two issued by Maui in 2000 (might be off a year on the date) are unknown as Maui PD claims all records regarding those licenses no longer exists.
The two issued on Kauai were issued to a judge and either a military member, or a family member of a military member. Kauai PD actually sent me the full applications with no name redaction. smh. Both were issued technically illegally for terms other than the one year required by HRS. The judge's license was renewed at intervals other than one year, illegal. The military related license was revoked in a short time... I'm assuming the threat was removed.
Post by: pacwire on August 28, 2022, 10:18:31 AM
In reviewing the "Amendment and compilation of Chapter 15 of the Rules of the Chief of Police, Honolulu Police Department, it states "relating to the procedure for firearms permits and licensing, were adopted on ___________, 2022 following a public hearing held on October 4, 2022, at the Honolulu Police Department, during which public testimony was taken, after public notice containing all information required by Section 91-3, Hawaii Revised Statutes, was published in the Honolulu Star Advertiser on __________, 2022.
These rules shall take effect ten days after filing with the Office of the City Clerk, City and County of Honolulu"
Hmmm Oct 2022? If you reviewed the PDF, you will find out about the Written test and shooting requirements.
I guess the hearing will be Tuesday October 4th!
Hope this is all true!
Have a GREAT rest of your weekend!
Aloha! :thumbsup: :shaka:
Post by: zippz on August 28, 2022, 10:28:32 AM
DID YOU KNOW OR DO YOU CARE?
In reviewing the "Amendment and compilation of Chapter 15 of the Rules of the Chief of Police, Honolulu Police Department, it states "relating to the procedure for firearms permits and licensing, were adopted on ___________, 2022 following a public hearing held on October 4, 2022, at the Honolulu Police Department, during which public testimony was taken, after public notice containing all information required by Section 91-3, Hawaii Revised Statutes, was published in the Honolulu Star Advertiser on __________, 2022.
These rules shall take effect ten days after filing with the Office of the City Clerk, City and County of Honolulu"
Hmmm Oct 2022? If you reviewed the PDF, you will find out about the Written test and shooting requirements.
I guess the hearing will be Tuesday October 4th!
Hope this is all true!
Have a GREAT rest of your weekend!
Aloha! :thumbsup: :shaka:
It's not all bad news. You only need 1 passport photo instead of the current 2.
There's some bad stuff in the other firearms regulations too, like under 21 needs a permit to carry guns for hunting. Not sure where they got authority for that one.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 28, 2022, 10:42:04 AM
Because it looks like they already mapped out what they want and will enforce out of all of this. It's like the Hearing is to say "This is what will transpire, tough shiite, cry me a river, go to hell if you don't like it and Have a Nice Day. Oh, and don't forget to pay your taxes....."
Sincerely, Your Friendly C&C HPD, Neighbor Island Counties, and the Communist Government of the State of Hawaii.
Aloha. ;D
Post by: RSN172 on August 28, 2022, 10:47:49 AM
Not sure where they got authority for that one.
That is their SOP. Make up bullshit to fit their agenda and screw what the law says.
Post by: dafrtknocker on August 28, 2022, 12:37:42 PM
A shooting proficiency test. To pass, the applicant shall attain a minimum
score of 75 points, out of a possible total of 125 points on the following
25-round course, using a National Rifle Association certified target:
(i) Three-yard line: 2 rounds in 6 seconds from a concealed holster;
three times (6 rounds / 4 second draw – 2 second split).
(ii) Five-yard line: 2 rounds in 6 seconds from a concealed holster;
two times (4 rounds / 4 second draw – 2 second split).
(iii) Seven-yard line: 5 rounds in 13 seconds from a concealed holster;
one time (5 rounds / 4 second draw – 2.25 second split).
(iv) Ten-yard line: 5 rounds in 15 seconds from a concealed holster;
one time (5 rounds / 4 sec. draw – 2.75 second split).
(v) Fifteen-yard line: 5 rounds in 20 seconds from a concealed
holster; one time (5 rounds / 4 second draw – 4 second split).
Post by: punaperson on August 28, 2022, 12:58:45 PM
HPD-Rules-of-the-Chief-of-Police.pdfWhat a monstrously gigantic fetid pile of total pigsh*t.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 28, 2022, 01:24:46 PM
What a monstrously gigantic fetid pile of total pigsh*t.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwBfGQJhDT8
Post by: hvybarrels on August 28, 2022, 01:27:58 PM
It's not all bad news. You only need 1 passport photo instead of the current 2.
Thanks for making me laugh despite the shameless authoritarian power grab and continued violation of our constitutional rights.
Hopefully one of these lawsuits will end up in a big payout for you guys.
Post by: ren on August 28, 2022, 01:46:50 PM
Post by: robtmc on August 28, 2022, 02:12:37 PM
the physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist shall personally evaluate the
applicant for no less than 45 minutes before so attesting.
You guys are really going to go through all this crap, along with giving them permission to dig into every private aspect of your life?
45 minutes with a shrink? Shrinks are not cheap by the hour.
Do Hawaii polices have to go through this?
Post by: kuwegg57 on August 28, 2022, 02:35:45 PM
Lv 2 or greater holster.... what? That's retarded.
Is there such a thing as a level 2 IWB holster for a mini 10 round 9mm (eg, Sig 365)
Post by: ren on August 28, 2022, 03:37:10 PM
someone is carrying without a permit...I am 99.9% sure that person is a CRIMINAL
Post by: zippz on August 28, 2022, 05:33:38 PM
Is there such a thing as a level 2 IWB holster for a mini 10 round 9mm (eg, Sig 365)
There's lvl 2 owb concealment holsters, like safarilands and others. I don't know of any iwb.
Usually the concealment is the level 2. I doubt HPD officer's have to wear level 2s off duty.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 28, 2022, 05:51:55 PM
Is there such a thing as a level 2 IWB holster for a mini 10 round 9mm (eg, Sig 365)
Active retention holsters are intended for situations where you don't want someone fighting you or surprising you from behind before you can stop them from taking your gun.
If the firearm is concealed, there's no logical reason to also have active retention.
You want to be able to quickly draw your concealed firearm. An active retention mechanism would impede that. If you feel the need to have extra retention, you can opt for an OWB concealment holster as zippz mentioned. Just have to have a garment capable of properly covering it.
Having said that, there's no law that requires a holster for carry at all. You can carry in a pocket, briefcase, fanny pack, backpack, organizer, etc. You can even have it in your car's console.
It would make sense for Cops who carry on a duty belt to test with active retention holsters. Not so for civilians carrying concealed.
I'd love it if they tried to mandate which holsters are legal for concealed carry. It would be challenged faster than the 7rd mag limits in NY. :geekdanc:
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 28, 2022, 06:52:14 PM
Horrible, Horrible people running this f**ked up communist state.
Criminalizing and oppressing the law-abiding people of Hawaii while the criminals run amok.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 28, 2022, 07:57:44 PM
You guys are really going to go through all this crap, along with giving them permission to dig into every private aspect of your life?
45 minutes with a shrink? Shrinks are not cheap by the hour.
Do Hawaii polices have to go through this?
At the rate things are descending into chaos it’s probably a matter of months until a sparkly toothed micro warlord is using the chief’s skull for a chalice
(https://i0.wp.com/24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6fiaaaWLQ1r9bsiwo2_500.gif?zoom=2)
I’ll probably put the shrink money towards something useful like body armor for when 911 is just a busy signal
Post by: zippz on August 28, 2022, 08:42:15 PM
I'd love it if they tried to mandate which holsters are legal for concealed carry. It would be challenged faster than the 7rd mag limits in NY. :geekdanc:
HPD approved level 2 conceal carry holster
(https://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/9fc4a8332f9638515cd199dd0f9238da/6/4/64079_W3.jpg)
Post by: ren on August 28, 2022, 09:29:48 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/08/29/kaisers-mental-health-professionals-plan-strike-they-grapple-with-staffing-shortages/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/08/29/kaisers-mental-health-professionals-plan-strike-they-grapple-with-staffing-shortages/)
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 28, 2022, 09:47:33 PM
We all know why there are all these BS restrictions to apply for CCW permit.
Horrible, Horrible people running this f**ked up communist state.
Criminalizing and oppressing the law-abiding people of Hawaii while the criminals run amok.
wHY dOnT wE jUsT mOvE If wE dONt liKe tHe RuLes 🥴🤓
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 28, 2022, 09:53:54 PM
You guys are really going to go through all this crap, along with giving them permission to dig into every private aspect of your life?
45 minutes with a shrink? Shrinks are not cheap by the hour.
Do Hawaii polices have to go through this?
I’d rather be able to carry my gun and defend myself with a little irritating/ inconvenient red tape until it’s challenged in court, than say fRiCk it and not carry a gun… or face a felony + removed gun rights + guaranteed prison time
Let us know how either not carrying or carrying w/o a permit goes for you with your next police interaction
- OR -
You’re expecting communist Hawaii to give a flying F about our rights and wants because they’re scared, uneducated, and ignorant morons?
Yeah, rather deal with the slight inconvenience but still be able to carry without losing the right or my freedom until it’s had it’s day in court. Either can deal with it or not
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 28, 2022, 09:56:31 PM
HPD approved level 2 conceal carry holster
(https://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/9fc4a8332f9638515cd199dd0f9238da/6/4/64079_W3.jpg)
I can’t find the version that’s shorts friendly. Some help please?
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 28, 2022, 09:58:07 PM
At the rate things are descending into chaos it’s probably a matter of months until a sparkly toothed micro warlord is using the chief’s skull for a chalice
(https://i0.wp.com/24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6fiaaaWLQ1r9bsiwo2_500.gif?zoom=2)
I’ll probably put the shrink money towards something useful like body armor for when 911 is just a busy signal
Already got armor so just gonna buy another pew pew
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 28, 2022, 10:25:10 PM
Already got armor so just gonna buy another pew pew
I'm thinking it's about time to buy a boat ....
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 29, 2022, 05:15:18 AM
wHY dOnT wE jUsT mOvE If wE dONt liKe tHe RuLes 🥴🤓
Viable option and I'm sure some people will do this. I plan to stay and fight these asshats that think they can circumvent a SCOTUS decision.
Post by: punaperson on August 29, 2022, 06:07:13 AM
Viable option and I'm sure some people will do this. I plan to stay and fight these asshats that think they can circumvent a SCOTUS decision.Viable option and I'm sure some people will do this. I plan to stay and fight these asshats that think they can successfully circumvent a SCOTUS decision.
FIFY
Of course they have that conviction because they have successfully circumvented the Constitution on dozens of issues for the past 50 years.
Oh, and f*ck them. The whole lot of 'em.
Post by: pacwire on August 29, 2022, 08:23:56 AM
1) They are trying to DELAY us getting our concealed! I think they want to wait for the Legislature to be back in session aka Jan 2023
2) Gee I guess the only place you can attend classes is Private Ranges...AKA Kokohead will be closed OCT and Mayb Nov?
3) Level 2 holster. Gee didnt the 2nd amendment talk about that? hmmmm
4) 45 Minutes to talk with a Doctor or Shrink? hmmm my doctor only sees me for 15 minutes max....
Well everyone: Good Luck!
Aloha!
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 29, 2022, 08:43:50 AM
After spending the weekend reviewing the posting, here's my whole take
1) They are trying to DELAY us getting our concealed! I think they want to wait for the Legislature to be back in session aka Jan 2023
2) Gee I guess the only place you can attend classes is Private Ranges...AKA Kokohead will be closed OCT and Mayb Nov?
3) Level 2 holster. Gee didnt the 2nd amendment talk about that? hmmmm
4) 45 Minutes to talk with a Doctor or Shrink? hmmm my doctor only sees me for 15 minutes max....
Well everyone: Good Luck!
Aloha!
I think this also. Their first strategy is to delay. Then when the legislature convenes they will draft a package similar to Kalifornia and Neuw Yawk.
Hawaii, Kalifornia, and Neuw Yawk might as well be considered sister states. In my mind they are more like the 3 Stooges of Liberal Retardedness.
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 29, 2022, 08:44:43 AM
After spending the weekend reviewing the posting, here's my whole takeI wouldn't hold my breath!
1) They are trying to DELAY us getting our concealed! I think they want to wait for the Legislature to be back in session aka Jan 2023
2) Gee I guess the only place you can attend classes is Private Ranges...AKA Kokohead will be closed OCT and Mayb Nov?
3) Level 2 holster. Gee didnt the 2nd amendment talk about that? hmmmm
4) 45 Minutes to talk with a Doctor or Shrink? hmmm my doctor only sees me for 15 minutes max....
Well everyone: Good Luck!
Aloha!
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 29, 2022, 10:09:16 AM
I wouldn't hold my breath!
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Everything we do today is for the next generation of gun owners. Thats the way I look at it.
Post by: Rhed on August 29, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
https://youtu.be/ArK-wzaJP9I
Post by: macsak on August 29, 2022, 12:18:00 PM
Post by: aieahound on August 29, 2022, 12:22:22 PM
It’s ridiculous and super hard to decipher.
Is the Chief really allowed to make up “laws”on his own ?
At least no what-the-Fawk waiver.
Just every other fawkin thing under the sun plus the kitchen sink.
Zippz, hope you and London can school on some things at the public “hearing”
Mahalo for all you and HIFICO do. (Again any member here who is not a member of HIFICO I shake my head.)
Post by: stangzilla on August 29, 2022, 12:25:13 PM
Quote
(10) If the applicant has lived outside of Hawaii for more than 60 days within the last
five years, documentation as set forth in subsection (b).
(11) A non-refundable fee of $10.00, or, if higher, the maximum amount permitted by
State law for the License and any background check or other processing fees.
(12) Any other forms prescribed by the Department of the Attorney General or the
Honolulu Police Department required to complete the background check and
mental health screening required by law.
(b) Every applicant who lived outside of Hawaii for more than 60 days within the last
five years shall provide mental health information as follows:
(1) Mental health records from the health department of every state, province, or
equivalent governmental unit where the applicant lived for more than 60 days
within the previous five years, to be sent directly to the Honolulu Police
Department from the governmental entity. Applicants who, within the previous
five years, were stationed outside the United States due to federal government
service shall have mental health records sent to the Honolulu Police Department
from the relevant federal governmental entity, but need not obtain records from
the foreign government; or
(2) Certification from a physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist, licensed to practice
in Hawaii and completed no earlier than 90 days before submission of the
application, attesting to the applicant’s mental fitness to carry a firearm, provided
that the physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist shall personally evaluate the
applicant for no less than 45 minutes before so attesting.
(c) Every applicant shall certify that, when the firearm is carried on the applicant’s
person, the firearm shall be carried using a Type 2 or higher holster.
(d) This section shall not apply to Private Detectives, Detectives, Investigators, and
Guards, who shall follow the procedures set forth in section 15-19. [Eff and comp
] (Auth: HRS § 134-9; RCH § 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS § 134-9)
under section b number 2 it says if you have lived outside of Hawaii for more than 60 days within the past 5 years, then you need to see a doctor to get a clearance letter
so it appears to me that if you have not lived outside of Hawaii for 60 days within the past 5 years, then you do not need a letter from the doctor
do you guys agree with me? or correct me if I'm wrong
Post by: punaperson on August 29, 2022, 12:31:31 PM
...He addressed that 6 weeks ago when he first said he'd be issuing licenses by the end of August (i.e. day after tomorrow!). He clarified that what he was declaring were NOT "restrictions" (much less "laws"), they were ["administrative"?] "procedures". (You know, like Trump did with bumpstocks and red flag procedures). After all, he knows his place and the limits to his power and authority. "Oh, and f*ck you, peasants. Especially if you were stupid enough to believe me about the August-issued licenses!"
Is the Chief really allowed to make up “laws”on his own ?
...
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 29, 2022, 12:44:30 PM
He addressed that 6 weeks ago when he first said he'd be issuing licenses by the end of August (i.e. day after tomorrow!). He clarified that what he was declaring were NOT "restrictions" (much less "laws"), they were ["administrative"?] "procedures". (You know, like Trump did with bumpstocks and red flag procedures). After all, he knows his place and the limits to his power and authority. "Oh, and f*ck you, peasants. Especially if you were stupid enough to believe me about the August-issued licenses!"
As the new chief, I had hopes he would abide by his word, but I was wrong. Often politics plays for 1 to get elected as chief, and I'm sure the committee had words with him about CCW.
I was hoping the delay was for admin stuff on HPD's end like they need to order the cards, the printers, place to keep all the paper apps, etc...
It makes it sound like he just found out about the delay. I'm sure he knew about this for some time now and could have made an announcement or even reached out to Andrew since he was their almost daily or reached out to HIFICO. But he choose to stay silent until someone called on the last radio show and asked him about it. If no one called, HIFICO wouldn't have found out till tomorrow.
Post by: zippz on August 29, 2022, 12:45:18 PM
Zippz, hope you and London can school on some things at the public “hearing”
Mahalo for all you and HIFICO do. (Again any member here who is not a member of HIFICO I shake my head.)
Yea I have a long list of things. There some simple stuff that are probably errors, like the Level 2 holster requirement is likely referring to open carry only and NRA target is probably the Federal qual target that HPD uses for qual that isn't a NRA target. A lot of the other more egregious stuff is due to the Hawaii law being very vague, give an inch take a mile. There's no authority to require people get medical records from out of state or get a 45 minute evaluation. I'm surprised they did that with privacy issues surrounding medical records and our lawsuit for the Homesick Sailor mental health checks. It should be tossed out in court due to vagueness and not authorized by law, but that'll take a long time.
Some of it is just unsafe, like having officers check the holster and firearm in public. This could lead to negligent discharges and officers accidentally shooting the person.
At least they don't restrict based on looks alone for the "not appear to be mentally deranged." That would disqualify 90% of us here.
The other thing from HPD's perspective is, did they calculate how much manpower this would require from them? All this stuff is a lot of work for a firearms section that struggles to do permit to acquire and registration.
Post by: 6716J on August 29, 2022, 01:02:14 PM
Mental health OVERREACH - Waht in the actual FUCK is this? I certainly hope the lawsuit printer is going BRRRRRR
(b) Every applicant who lived outside of Hawaii for more than 60 days within the last five years shall provide mental health information as follows:
(1) Mental health records from the health department of every state, province, or equivalent governmental unit where the applicant lived for more than 60 days within the previous five years, to be sent directly to the Honolulu Police Department from the governmental entity. Applicants who, within the previous five years, were stationed outside the United States due to federal government service shall have mental health records sent to the Honolulu Police Department from the relevant federal governmental entity, but need not obtain records from the foreign government; or
(2) Certification from a physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist, licensed to practice in Hawaii and completed no earlier than 90 days before submission of the application, attesting to the applicant’s mental fitness to carry a firearm, provided that the physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist shall personally evaluate the applicant for no less than 45 minutes before so attesting.
edit - whoops missed the post above about this mental health crap.
Post by: 6716J on August 29, 2022, 01:06:47 PM
.....................................................
https://www.honolulupd.org/police-services/firearms/proposed-amendment-to-chapter-15-of-the-rules-of-the-chief-of-police/
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AND TESTIMONY
All interested persons shall be afforded the opportunity to submit data, views, or arguments, orally or in writing, on the proposed administrative rules at the time of the public hearing. Attendance at the public hearing is not necessary to submit testimony. There will be a time limit of two minutes per person to present testimony at the hearing.
Persons wishing to submit written testimony in advance may do so by emailing their testimony to HPDLTC@honolulu.gov (preferred) or by mail to HPD Records & Identification Division, Attn: Public Testimony, 801 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, HI 96813. All written testimony submitted before the conclusion of the public hearing shall be considered. Interested persons are encouraged to submit their testimony in advance of the public hearing, as this will give HPD more time to review and consider the testimony.
Advance registration is not necessary to attend or submit testimony at the hearing. At the conclusion of the hearing, HPD shall announce the date by which the Chief intends to make a decision on the proposed rules.
Upon request, this notice is available in alternate formats such as large print, Braille, or electronic copy. If you need an auxiliary aid/service or other accommodation due to a disability, please contact HPD at (808) 388-9651, HPDLTC@honolulu.gov, or by mail to HPD Records & Identification Division, 801 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, HI 96813. Requests made as early as possible will allow adequate time to fulfill your request.
Arthur J. Logan, Chief
Honolulu Police Department
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 29, 2022, 01:09:47 PM
As the new chief, I had hopes he would abide by his word, but I was wrong. Often politics plays for 1 to get elected as chief, and I'm sure the committee had words with him about CCW.
I was hoping the delay was for admin stuff on HPD's end like they need to order the cards, the printers, place to keep all the paper apps, etc...
It makes it sound like he just found out about the delay. I'm sure he knew about this for some time now and could have made an announcement or even reached out to Andrew since he was their almost daily or reached out to HIFICO. But he choose to stay silent until someone called on the last radio show and asked him about it. If no one called, HIFICO wouldn't have found out till tomorrow.
I also believe the committee had a few words with him about this issue. He wouldn't be Chief if he even hinted to the committee that he was pro CCW during the hiring process. They would have dropped him like a hot potato and yelled "Next man!!"
I suspected at first but now I believe this was all smoke and mirrors, a stall tactic, and a plan to line themselves up like Kalifornia and Neuw Yawk.
But I also believe, though it will take time, all of this BS restrictions to essentially circumvent CCW will blow up in their faces in the court of law. It was a pipedream to think they would just comply.
Post by: Direjackalope on August 29, 2022, 01:11:25 PM
Make our voices heard on this shit
.....................................................
https://www.honolulupd.org/police-services/firearms/proposed-amendment-to-chapter-15-of-the-rules-of-the-chief-of-police/
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AND TESTIMONY
All interested persons shall be afforded the opportunity to submit data, views, or arguments, orally or in writing, on the proposed administrative rules at the time of the public hearing. Attendance at the public hearing is not necessary to submit testimony. There will be a time limit of two minutes per person to present testimony at the hearing.
Persons wishing to submit written testimony in advance may do so by emailing their testimony to HPDLTC@honolulu.gov (preferred) or by mail to HPD Records & Identification Division, Attn: Public Testimony, 801 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, HI 96813. All written testimony submitted before the conclusion of the public hearing shall be considered. Interested persons are encouraged to submit their testimony in advance of the public hearing, as this will give HPD more time to review and consider the testimony.
Advance registration is not necessary to attend or submit testimony at the hearing. At the conclusion of the hearing, HPD shall announce the date by which the Chief intends to make a decision on the proposed rules.
Upon request, this notice is available in alternate formats such as large print, Braille, or electronic copy. If you need an auxiliary aid/service or other accommodation due to a disability, please contact HPD at (808) 388-9651, HPDLTC@honolulu.gov, or by mail to HPD Records & Identification Division, 801 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, HI 96813. Requests made as early as possible will allow adequate time to fulfill your request.
Arthur J. Logan, Chief
Honolulu Police Department
If you want to get their attention send a letter instead of an email. If you want them to read it then send it as a thank you card or a post card.
Post by: 6716J on August 29, 2022, 01:22:23 PM
....
I'm just baffled after reading through the entire thing. Too many things are just plain stupid and I'm sure HIFICO is already on it.
To me, 2 standouts are the mental health requirements and then for renewal, you have to do the entire process all over again. So every year you submit your mental health info, submit to a mental health exam, written and practical tests. This can cost you over $1000 every year between the mental health checkup and then the class. On it's face this is cooling on 2nd Amendment rights and in clear violation of the Bruen decision. I am extremely thankful for HiFiCo and the work they do (just renewed my annual membership last week, you should too), but can we get FPC, GOA and other true gun rights organizations involved? Screw the NRA at this point.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 29, 2022, 01:49:22 PM
And with all of this, Hawaii back at the Ainokea Carry permit.
....
I'm just baffled after reading through the entire thing. Too many things are just plain stupid and I'm sure HIFICO is already on it.
To me, 2 standouts are the mental health requirements and then for renewal, you have to do the entire process all over again. So every year you submit your mental health info, submit to a mental health exam, written and practical tests. This can cost you over $1000 every year between the mental health checkup and then the class. On it's face this is cooling on 2nd Amendment rights and in clear violation of the Bruen decision. I am extremely thankful for HiFiCo and the work they do (just renewed my annual membership last week, you should too), but can we get FPC, GOA and other true gun rights organizations involved? Screw the NRA at this point.
The bigger orgs don't focus on a small state like HI. We are on our own. Think about all the wins HIFICO has been getting, how many wins have nationwide orgs been getting in HI?
Post by: aieahound on August 29, 2022, 01:52:04 PM
And the Chief can still levy a bevy of restrictions. Like what times of day you can open carry and where.
Regarding concealed carry:
“
(e) Unless renewed, every License shall expire, and shall become invalid, one year from the date of issue.
(f) To renew a License, a licensee shall complete all requirements for the License and shall submit the materials no earlier than 90 days, and no later than 30 days, prior to the
expiration of the License. If the licensee continues to meet all requirements, the License shall be renewed for one year after the expiration of the licensee’s existing License. “
No shi+. Am I reading this right ?
As noted above by 6716J, looks like you’ll have to repeat the process every year.
Post by: stangzilla on August 29, 2022, 02:00:32 PM
Post by: 6716J on August 29, 2022, 03:26:29 PM
what are the size of the targets to be used for qualification?
Will assume the standard B-27. Which will make it impossible to have any testing performed at Kokohead. From the pistol rules - 10. Shoot only at authorized targets. No plinking of objects on backstop berm or on the ground. Human silhouette targets are not allowed. i.e: B-27 no bueno
Post by: hvybarrels on August 29, 2022, 03:27:40 PM
these proposed illegal regulations are so far out into leftist loopy land that it’s making it easier and easier to drive a wedge between our security guard/gated community protected political class and the rest of the population who are getting fed up with violent crime, increasing taxes, and diminishing services.
Maybe it’s time for another public awareness event with Stolen Stuff Hawaii
Post by: 6716J on August 29, 2022, 03:29:22 PM
The bigger orgs don't focus on a small state like HI. We are on our own. Think about all the wins HIFICO has been getting, how many wins have nationwide orgs been getting in HI?
HIFICO is the BOMB here and the nationwides ignore us. Just wishful thinking to bring their national warchests and attention to us and how we are treated less than redheaded bastard stepchildren
Post by: punaperson on August 29, 2022, 04:23:14 PM
Post by: Bota-CS1 on August 29, 2022, 05:55:30 PM
HIFICO is the BOMB here and the nationwides ignore us. Just wishful thinking to bring their national warchests and attention to us and how we are treated less than redheaded bastard stepchildren
It’s simple. Venue. No local judges willing to follow the law. Saint Benitiez is on a roll in Cali and the 9th. I think the best we can do is wait for the wins at the 9th circuit and follow suit after. We’re like Sisyphus in many ways.
Post by: aieahound on August 29, 2022, 06:47:19 PM
For public safety I wanted to carry a double action only hammerless 2” barrel revolver.
Basically a 3 to 7 yard gun. (For me anyway) Can’t pass the test.
Not to mention the rest of the nonsense.
Pretty soon they’ll have you taking the Men in Black range test.
https://youtu.be/K3hAVT2sDqQ
Post by: zippz on August 29, 2022, 07:35:05 PM
It’s simple. Venue. No local judges willing to follow the law. Saint Benitiez is on a roll in Cali and the 9th. I think the best we can do is wait for the wins at the 9th circuit and follow suit after. We’re like Sisyphus in many ways.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but 9th is still doing their own thing and obstructing. To delay, save face, and discourage attorneys from helping. Young and Duncan was sent back to district court which is not good. My lawsuit was kept at the 9th which is a good thing to make progress.
Any new lawsuits to challenge CCW restrictions will likely still have a long and hard road to go through.
Post by: Bota-CS1 on August 29, 2022, 08:06:36 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but 9th is still doing their own thing and obstructing. To delay, save face, and discourage attorneys from helping. Young and Duncan was sent back to district court which is not good. My lawsuit was kept at the 9th which is a good thing to make progress.
Any new lawsuits to challenge CCW restrictions will likely still have a long and hard road to go through.
You’re not bursting anything. While they’ve remanded cases back down to Benitez to stall, it was anticipated. I don’t think anyone just expected the 9th to just roll over and play nice all of a sudden. It’s like trying to get your dog to come home after he’s spent hours at the dog park with all his friends. He’s going to make you drag his ass back to the car and carry him inside. Benitez realized this and as a result he’s moved up the date to resolve the CA assault weapons case within the next couple of months.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 30, 2022, 01:53:50 AM
“An Increase In ‘Violent, Brazen’ Crime Raises Concerns On Oahu”
Even the libs are noticing how nuts it’s getting and they NEVER like to admit they were wrong.
I really honestly believe that when the food shortages kick in after the election we’ll see some civil unrest.
First Europe will freeze and burn, and then it’s our turn.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 30, 2022, 05:21:41 AM
https://www.civilbeat.org/?p=1511331
“An Increase In ‘Violent, Brazen’ Crime Raises Concerns On Oahu”
Even the libs are noticing how nuts it’s getting and they NEVER like to admit they were wrong.
I really honestly believe that when the food shortages kick in after the election we’ll see some civil unrest.
First Europe will freeze and burn, and then it’s our turn.
Wouldn't surprise me that HPD does the "All hands on deck" thing and pulls the Firearms Division out in the field to help with the rampant crime.
PTA's, Registrations, and CCW applications will be put on hold.
At that point the "Ainokea" and "Inogiveash*t" permits come into play.
Post by: RSN172 on August 30, 2022, 08:01:49 AM
I lived on Oahu from 1968 to 2015 and have many close friends there, but the Communists in power need to wake up. I am hoping people get so scared
that thousands start using the F-Dis-Bullshit Ainokeaanymo permit.
Post by: hvybarrels on August 30, 2022, 10:57:00 AM
I like Oahu get so violent that people are afraid to go out at night, crime goes up 200%. Nothing against Oahu people, but that is where the legislature is.
What if violent crime is like a societal immune system that lets us know that we are fighting off a parasitic infection? It’s the only thing that will wake some people up, that’s for sure.
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 30, 2022, 11:08:26 AM
What if violent crime is like a societal immune system that lets us know that we are fighting off a parasitic infection? It’s the only thing that will wake some people up, that’s for sure.
Let’s hope those pro-2A antibodies start kicking in soon and kick those parasites in their commie faces
Post by: finalchecker on August 30, 2022, 05:09:55 PM
https://www.hawaiipolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Supplement-to-Application-For-License-to-Carry-Proficiency-Test.pdf
Post by: stangzilla on August 30, 2022, 05:22:23 PM
Hawaii County has updated the shooting proficiency test requirements.
https://www.hawaiipolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Supplement-to-Application-For-License-to-Carry-Proficiency-Test.pdf
sheesh!
Post by: stangzilla on August 30, 2022, 05:30:23 PM
course of fire to be performed by the applicant that will allow the Instructor to certify that the applicant is
proficient in the handling and use of the firearm involved. At the minimum, the proficiency course of fire
conducted by Firearm Instructors should consist of the following, with a passing score of 75% or greater.
the instructor determines the course of fire
so does this mean the applicant needs to do all 3 of the courses of fire? or just 1 selected by the instructor?
Post by: finalchecker on August 30, 2022, 05:38:18 PM
The State-Certified or National Rifle Association Firearm Instructors are responsible for determining the
course of fire to be performed by the applicant that will allow the Instructor to certify that the applicant is
proficient in the handling and use of the firearm involved. At the minimum, the proficiency course of fire
conducted by Firearm Instructors should consist of the following, with a passing score of 75% or greater.
the instructor determines the course of fire
so does this mean the applicant needs to do all 3 of the courses of fire? or just 1 selected by the instructor?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambiguity
Post by: stangzilla on August 30, 2022, 05:49:37 PM
Post by: ren on August 30, 2022, 06:05:53 PM
Oahu’s murder rate is up nearly 30%.
From January to July, there were at least 18 deaths, compared to 14 at the same time last year.
Aggravated assaults are up 3% overall, but Waikiki saw a 40% spike as tourists returned.
Post by: drck1000 on August 30, 2022, 06:18:20 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 30, 2022, 06:23:41 PM
“should” not “shall”
:thumbsup: :shaka:
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 30, 2022, 06:24:39 PM
sheesh!
Really, Yeah?
You'd think we going to war or something, lol!
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 30, 2022, 06:44:35 PM
Hawaii County has updated the shooting proficiency test requirements.Wow, do-able, but wow.
https://www.hawaiipolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Supplement-to-Application-For-License-to-Carry-Proficiency-Test.pdf
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 30, 2022, 09:27:49 PM
sheesh!
Looks stupid easy except the 6rds in 30sec. But from 7yds wouldn’t honestly be that hard unless you take too long to do follow-on shots
Bit of a stresser regarding time, but definitely doable
Post by: Rhed on August 30, 2022, 09:49:19 PM
Post by: punaperson on August 30, 2022, 09:56:05 PM
These people really know what they are doing.
Oh, wait, I meant to say these people are totally incompetent and full of sh*t.
Obviously unconstitutional. Guessing they will get away with it for, oh, forever.
Post by: RSN172 on August 31, 2022, 12:00:40 AM
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 31, 2022, 06:21:50 AM
Nobody will be able to train with their pistols unless they plan to carry .22 LR.
I was planning to pocket carry but to do the test there is no way I can pass it with pocket carry.
Looks like the older, retired citizens will have to train more to meet that test. (Like me).
So am I going to be arrested if I end up pocket carrying instead of complying with a level 2 holster?
Post by: RSN172 on August 31, 2022, 06:54:46 AM
So am I going to be arrested if I end up pocket carrying instead of complying with a level 2 holster?
Yes, and also handcuffed and beaten. Cops enjoy beating helpless people.
I plan to just carry my G19. I have a Umarex BB clone of that gun as well as a 22LR kit for it. I practice a lot with the BB clonedrawing and shooting from 3 to 7 yards. I have full confidence I can pass those tests.
Post by: nickelzismoney on August 31, 2022, 06:58:09 AM
Am I the only one that is paranoid about KHSC being closed to everything except .22 LR?
Nobody will be able to train with their pistols unless they plan to carry .22 LR.
I was planning to pocket carry but to do the test there is no way I can pass it with pocket carry.
Looks like the older, retired citizens will have to train more to meet that test. (Like me).
So am I going to be arrested if I end up pocket carrying instead of complying with a level 2 holster?
I’m always paranoid about gun stuff tbh
Post by: punaperson on August 31, 2022, 07:04:53 AM
They are figuring most people not going be able to drsw from concealment and get 2 shots on target in 2 seconds or less.Also notice the striking absence of any mention at all of the target size for any of the distances ("courses of fire"). Side of a barn? Postage stamp? Or is everyone in the world of "shooting" in total agreement on what size those targets are?
Good thing it's all "should". Will the instructors be intimidated enough to "comply"?
Post by: drck1000 on August 31, 2022, 07:36:21 AM
Also notice the striking absence of any mention at all of the target size for any of the distances ("courses of fire"). Side of a barn? Postage stamp? Or is everyone in the world of "shooting" in total agreement on what size those targets are?I noticed that, and was suspecting/thinking that will be left to the discretion of the instructor or trainer administering the qualification. Thereby transferring some liability or other ownership of responsibility.
Good thing it's all "should". Will the instructors be intimidated enough to "comply"?
It comes off as a "recommendation", but is a backdoor requirement and room for discretionary rejection. . . at least my thoughts on what I've seen. Hope I'm wrong, but. . .
Post by: stangzilla on August 31, 2022, 07:54:50 AM
also do-able, and also un-necessary
Post by: drck1000 on August 31, 2022, 08:15:00 AM
next thing the city and county will do is in order to get a driver's license, you'll need to qualify on a Formula 1 sanctioned race track, timed. and you'll need R comp tiresAnd here I thought you'd be more of a NASCAR fella. . .
also do-able, and also un-necessary
Chevys and Yotas are having a lot of success this season. . . ;D
Post by: stangzilla on August 31, 2022, 08:15:57 AM
And here I thought you'd be more of a NASCAR fella. . .
Chevys and Yotas are having a lot of success this season. . . ;D
I'm actually NHRA guy. I have short attention span :shaka:
and IMSA. where the cars are more like you would buy from the factory, almost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_U4qn9YmEM
Post by: RSN172 on August 31, 2022, 08:26:30 AM
Post by: Rocky on August 31, 2022, 08:31:52 AM
I noticed that, and was suspecting/thinking that will be left to the discretion of the instructor or trainer administering the qualification. Thereby transferring some liability or other ownership of responsibility.More like a backdoor requirement with room for a discretionary "erection" :shake:
It comes off as a "recommendation", but is a backdoor requirement and room for discretionary rejection. . . at least my thoughts on what I've seen. Hope I'm wrong, but. . .
I wonder how many of those already legit to carry (LEO, Security Guards, Personal Security etc..) can pass this test, even w/o clearing garment.
And what about physically disabled/challenged ?
In my current condition, firing with weak hand is out of the question due to an injury that severed the nerves.
Post by: punaperson on August 31, 2022, 08:46:23 AM
..."Tough sh*t man. That's your problem. You either jump through ALL the hoops in front of you or you remain in the group of (all) Hawaii residents who legitimately have been denied their Constitutionally-protected rights. Too bad for you. We're really sad."
And what about physically disabled/challenged ?
In my current condition, firing with weak hand is out of the question due to an injury that severed the nerves.
These people are evil (though I suspect most are merely useful idiots). Facts and logic are completely irrelevant to them.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 31, 2022, 08:46:58 AM
I noticed that, and was suspecting/thinking that will be left to the discretion of the instructor or trainer administering the qualification. Thereby transferring some liability or other ownership of responsibility.
It comes off as a "recommendation", but is a backdoor requirement and room for discretionary rejection. . . at least my thoughts on what I've seen. Hope I'm wrong, but. . .
THeir wording states "should consist of" which to me means it's suggested, but not required.
Is this test ADA or elderly compliant? What if someone wants to CC a single shot pistol like a Derenger, can they reload in 2 seconds and fire the 2nd shot? I think not. So there are many issues with this posted requirement.
The NV qual is 3;5 and 7 yards with zero time limit and you can use any caliber gun, as their permits are valid for any handgun. They used to be handgun specific (blue cards), but did away with them like 8 years ago.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 31, 2022, 08:48:11 AM
And what about physically disabled/challenged ?
In my current condition, firing with weak hand is out of the question due to an injury that severed the nerves.
I hope you come and testify on Oct 4th. We need all people who requirements will affect.
Post by: Rocky on August 31, 2022, 09:07:04 AM
"Tough sh*t man. That's your problem. You either jump through ALL the hoops in front of you or you remain in the group of (all) Hawaii residents who legitimately have been denied their Constitutionally-protected rights. Too bad for you. We're really sad."Discriminating against the disabled ? :wtf:
These people are evil (though I suspect most are merely useful idiots). Facts and logic are completely irrelevant to them.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 31, 2022, 09:14:01 AM
Discriminating against the disabled ? :wtf:
Yes they are. The ignore the bill of rights, so they have no problem screwing other classes of people.
Post by: drck1000 on August 31, 2022, 09:38:20 AM
I'm actually NHRA guy. I have short attention span :shaka:Growing up, a neighbor down the street had a dragster. Believe they still do, but don't see the car at the house anymore. But sometimes they would run engine tests and could hear the roar of that engine up and down the whole street.
and IMSA. where the cars are more like you would buy from the factory, almost
I've watched IMSA, or what I think was. Where they had multiple different classes of cars on the same track at the same time. Was interesting with multiple races going on.
Post by: drck1000 on August 31, 2022, 09:40:02 AM
More like a backdoor requirement with room for a discretionary "erection" :shake:You and your imagination.
I wonder how many of those already legit to carry (LEO, Security Guards, Personal Security etc..) can pass this test, even w/o clearing garment.
And what about physically disabled/challenged ?
In my current condition, firing with weak hand is out of the question due to an injury that severed the nerves.
And physical capabilities was another aspect that I was thinking about. Where that could be up to discretion of the instructor to determine capability. How to test discretion?
Post by: drck1000 on August 31, 2022, 09:41:23 AM
THeir wording states "should consist of" which to me means it's suggested, but not required.Yeah, what I noted above. But it also leaves open for acceptance of "instructor sign off".
Is this test ADA or elderly compliant? What if someone wants to CC a single shot pistol like a Derenger, can they reload in 2 seconds and fire the 2nd shot? I think not. So there are many issues with this posted requirement.
The NV qual is 3;5 and 7 yards with zero time limit and you can use any caliber gun, as their permits are valid for any handgun. They used to be handgun specific (blue cards), but did away with them like 8 years ago.
The from cover part made me go :hmm:
Post by: hvybarrels on August 31, 2022, 10:03:15 AM
https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/police-legally-blind-tampa-man-shoots-nephew-in-self-defense/2194530/
Post by: Bota-CS1 on August 31, 2022, 11:00:10 AM
Discriminating against the disabled ? :wtf:
And our kupuna. Who gets preyed upon the most by criminals? The dude who looks like he can bench press a Hemi engine or the 68 year old tata, obasan, or gmaw? Criminals are only going to learn when their “prey” claps them with the .38 they keep in their purse.
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 31, 2022, 11:28:19 AM
More like a backdoor requirement with room for a discretionary "erection" :shake:
I wonder how many of those already legit to carry (LEO, Security Guards, Personal Security etc..) can pass this test, even w/o clearing garment.
And what about physically disabled/challenged ?
In my current condition, firing with weak hand is out of the question due to an injury that severed the nerves.
I've never fired out of my weak hand. I'd bet a lot of people contemplating CCW carry haven't fired from their weak hand.
We're not commandos. We are everyday citizens wanting to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Guess we gotta go train now with weak hand now just to make these asshats happy. :grrr:
Oh and how the f**k are we supposed to do that? They put all these "standards" we have to meet, yet KHSC's rules and regulations prohibit and bans these types of training.
F**kn A$$h*les.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 31, 2022, 11:40:46 AM
I've never fired out of my weak hand. I'd bet a lot of people contemplating CCW carry haven't fired from their weak hand.
We're not commandos. We are everyday citizens wanting to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Guess we gotta go train now with weak hand now just to make these asshats happy. :grrr:
Oh and how the f**k are we supposed to do that? They put all these "standards" we have to meet, yet KHSC's rules and regulations prohibit and bans these types of training.
F**kn A$$h*les.
In the Air Force, back when "small arms for officers" meant "really difficult to grip .38 revolvers" ( :rofl:), we went through strong & weak side barricade, single and double hand grip, strong & weak handed grip, and standing/prone positions.
There's nothing wrong with adding these variations to your training regimen, because just standing still and repeating the same drill every visit can get old.
In a defensive situation, the only thing you can expect is that nothing will go as expected.
Having said that, if they are testing for proficiency, it should be a straight-forward "normal situation" test. Otherwise, they are just trying to fail people who have little to no experience with firearms other than the basics.
Post by: drck1000 on August 31, 2022, 12:27:00 PM
And our kupuna. Who gets preyed upon the most by criminals? The dude who looks like he can bench press a Hemi engine or the 68 year old tata, obasan, or gmaw? Criminals are only going to learn when their “prey” claps them with the .38 they keep in their purse.Exactly, and exactly the folks that need firearms to protect themselves from disparity of, well, everything except wisdom.
Post by: punaperson on August 31, 2022, 12:48:07 PM
Discriminating against the disabled ? :wtf:I'm a little surprised there isn't already a "rule" prohibiting anyone with a disability from even applying, much less being granted a license. Wouldn't someone with a gun in public who is not fully in command of all their physical abilities be a danger to public safety?
I'm guessing that's the way they think, but rather than say it and face possible backlash, they just set up the "proficiency test" to screen out all such people.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 31, 2022, 01:01:46 PM
I've never fired out of my weak hand. I'd bet a lot of people contemplating CCW carry haven't fired from their weak hand.
We're not commandos. We are everyday citizens wanting to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Guess we gotta go train now with weak hand now just to make these asshats happy. :grrr:
Oh and how the f**k are we supposed to do that? They put all these "standards" we have to meet, yet KHSC's rules and regulations prohibit and bans these types of training.
F**kn A$$h*les.
When shooting 1 handed, I'm more accurate with my support side than strong side. Something about knowing the support side sucks, so you FOCUS more. I've heard this is common with a lot of people. But what does suck about support side shooting is that it's much slower than strong side. Like when rapid firing or engaging multiple targets.
Post by: Rocky on September 01, 2022, 01:16:22 PM
You and your imagination.No problem, I'll just sign myself off ! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
And physical capabilities was another aspect that I was thinking about. Where that could be up to discretion of the instructor to determine capability. How to test discretion?
Quote from: QUIETShooter on August 31, 2022, 11:28:19 AM
I've never fired out of my weak hand. I'd bet a lot of people contemplating CCW carry haven't fired from their weak hand.
Before the accident, I did practice support side with pistol and rifle but now I don't as I know my "limits"
At first I tried but realized it was a BAD idea. :oops: :shake: :shake: :shake:
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 01, 2022, 03:16:34 PM
No problem, I'll just sign myself off ! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Quote from: QUIETShooter on August 31, 2022, 11:28:19 AM
I've never fired out of my weak hand. I'd bet a lot of people contemplating CCW carry haven't fired from their weak hand.
Before the accident, I did practice support side with pistol and rifle but now I don't as I know my "limits"
At first I tried but realized it was a BAD idea. :oops: :shake: :shake: :shake:
When I was still working a co-worker dropped a 1" EMT pipe from an 8' ladder unto the backside of my palm of my weak hand. It cut 90% of the tendon that controls my pinkie.
I had to get surgery to re-attach the tendon. What was funny to me at the time was the Doc said he has to knock me out to do the surgery because he didn't want me to twitch or move while he stitched the tendon. One move he said and the tendon if severed completely would re-coil like a spring up to my elbow.
So anyway, I lost 28% movement in my pinkie.
Yeah, I agree with you. Something tells me I need to be super careful and take it slow if I'm gonna try and train to shoot with my weak hand. :shaka:
Post by: Rocky on September 01, 2022, 04:03:39 PM
When I was still working a co-worker dropped a 1" EMT pipe from an 8' ladder unto the backside of my palm of my weak hand. It cut 90% of the tendon that controls my pinkie.(https://i.postimg.cc/ZCnn9k3B/IMG-20141117-154648.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZCnn9k3B)
I had to get surgery to re-attach the tendon. What was funny to me at the time was the Doc said he has to knock me out to do the surgery because he didn't want me to twitch or move while he stitched the tendon. One move he said and the tendon if severed completely would re-coil like a spring up to my elbow.
So anyway, I lost 28% movement in my pinkie.
Yeah, I agree with you. Something tells me I need to be super careful and take it slow if I'm gonna try and train to shoot with my weak hand. :shaka:
Yeah, I got feeling from the tip of the scar to the pinky, everything else is constantly funny bone action.
Don't even risk it anymore.
I don't even risk wip'n muh butt with that hand ! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 01, 2022, 05:24:44 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZCnn9k3B/IMG-20141117-154648.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZCnn9k3B)
Yeah, I got feeling from the tip of the scar to the pinky, everything else is constantly funny bone action.
Don't even risk it anymore.
I don't even risk wip'n muh butt with that hand ! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Damn, Bro, that injury makes mine look like a paper cut...... :worship:
Post by: robtmc on September 01, 2022, 07:25:41 PM
I've never fired out of my weak hand. I'd bet a lot of people contemplating CCW carry haven't fired from their weak hand.
My strong hand started out, switched to weak hand some years bask for eye dominance. Same-same with rifle.
Certainly was not planning on some future big government diktat designed to slow permits down with obstacles to overcome.
I am not considering jumping through their hoops. No need in the state I hang out in some of the time, and if stuff goes that sideways here, Ainokea MF'rs
Post by: robtmc on September 01, 2022, 07:32:06 PM
next thing the city and county will do is in order to get a driver's license, you'll need to qualify on a Formula 1 sanctioned race track, timed. and you'll need R comp tires
I would be happy with a test for reaction time and decision making for driver license.
Post by: stangzilla on September 01, 2022, 08:01:19 PM
I would be happy with a test for reaction time and decision making for driver license.
At a stop light, I like to get the hole shot
Sleep on the tree, I'm gone! 😉
Post by: punaperson on September 02, 2022, 07:46:43 AM
On Sept. 1, H[awaii]PD released a media statement that included the following:
"Hawai‘i Police Department announces that effective August 31, 2022, at 4:30 p.m., Deputy Police Chief Kenneth Bugado began serving as Acting Police Chief until a new police chief is selected by the Police Commission."
Today, Sept. 2, the HPD page has a listing with photo of the HPD chief of police. It's still Ferreira.
Just another indication of the incompetence of the people telling us what our rights are and aren't. It's disgusting.
PS. I just submitted an official UIPA request to HPD asking them for detailed documentation of the specifics of their firearms proficiency testing for both uniformed officers carrying unconcealed and plain clothes officers carrying concealed. I'll let you know what I get.
Post by: RSN172 on September 02, 2022, 08:31:26 AM
You will probably get a MYOB or NOYB letter. Or they might even be nicer and say disclosing that information will compromise the security of the force.
PS. I just submitted an official UIPA request to HPD asking them for detailed documentation of the specifics of their firearms proficiency testing for both uniformed officers carrying unconcealed and plain clothes officers carrying concealed. I'll let you know what I get.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 02, 2022, 08:47:15 AM
I would be happy with a test for reaction time and decision making for driver license.
They had this for the tracks at Campbell.
Post by: Rocky on September 02, 2022, 10:36:53 AM
They had this for the tracks at Campbell.That was Looooong ago.
Back in late "86" maybe early "87" I rewired the Christmas tree some of the box lights before the reopening.
Post by: bingbong on September 02, 2022, 01:04:31 PM
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN, pursuant to Hawai‘i Revised Statutes chapter 91, of a public hearing to be held by the Honolulu Police Department (“HPD”) for the purpose of adopting Rules governing Firearm Permits and Licenses.
HRS 91-1 Definitions
"Agency" means each state or county board, commission, department, or
officer authorized by law to make rules or to adjudicate contested cases,
except those in the legislative or judicial branches.
"Rule" means each agency statement of general or particular applicability and
future effect that implements, interprets, or prescribes law or policy, or
describes the organization, procedure, or practice requirements of any
agency. The term does not include regulations concerning only the internal
management of an agency and not affecting private rights of or procedures
available to the public, nor does the term include declaratory rulings issued
pursuant to section 91-8, nor intra-agency memoranda.
HPD is not allowed to make rules that affect the legislative or judicial branches.
Rules can not affect private rights.
I dispute HPD authority to make rules governing Firearm Permits and Licenses.
I declare HPD is in violation of HRS 91.
To keep and bear arms is a civil right that does not fall under HRS 91 where it can be infringed upon by rules made by HPD.
Post by: bingbong on September 02, 2022, 01:17:30 PM
HPD approved level 2 conceal carry holster
(https://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/9fc4a8332f9638515cd199dd0f9238da/6/4/64079_W3.jpg)
You forgot about the part where it must be welded shut and no JB weld must be TIG weld.
Post by: nickelzismoney on September 02, 2022, 05:08:08 PM
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN, pursuant to Hawai‘i Revised Statutes chapter 91, of a public hearing to be held by the Honolulu Police Department (“HPD”) for the purpose of adopting Rules governing Firearm Permits and Licenses.
HRS 91-1 Definitions
"Agency" means each state or county board, commission, department, or
officer authorized by law to make rules or to adjudicate contested cases,
except those in the legislative or judicial branches.
"Rule" means each agency statement of general or particular applicability and
future effect that implements, interprets, or prescribes law or policy, or
describes the organization, procedure, or practice requirements of any
agency. The term does not include regulations concerning only the internal
management of an agency and not affecting private rights of or procedures
available to the public, nor does the term include declaratory rulings issued
pursuant to section 91-8, nor intra-agency memoranda.
HPD is not allowed to make rules that affect the legislative or judicial branches.
Rules can not affect private rights.
I dispute HPD authority to make rules governing Firearm Permits and Licenses.
I declare HPD is in violation of HRS 91.
To keep and bear arms is a civil right that does not fall under HRS 91 where it can be infringed upon by rules made by HPD.
I’ll sign that shit too
Post by: hvybarrels on September 02, 2022, 05:29:05 PM
https://www.kitv.com/news/local/police-investigating-deadly-stabbing-on-mott-smith-drive-in-makiki/article_03f6514e-2b33-11ed-8018-c3506cb49e41.html
Post by: RSN172 on September 02, 2022, 06:49:55 PM
Post by: nickelzismoney on September 02, 2022, 08:41:59 PM
Violent crime needs to go up 1000%. That way HPD will show what a fine job they are doing in preventing the crime, protecting you and most of all, why you don't need to carry a gun for protection.
My ass will stay home with the pews so I could care less. Whatever gets us our rights actually enforced and respected. Home and work sounds fine to me
Post by: hvybarrels on September 02, 2022, 11:45:15 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/09/03/authorities-urge-vigilance-amid-rash-violent-home-invasions-honolulu/
Sgt Chris Kim might as well have said:
“Keep your facial reconstruction insurance policy up to date and lube your holes every night before you go to bed to decrease the severity of soft tissue damage.”
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 03, 2022, 04:55:51 AM
“In the event that you’re home and something like this happens we want you to just kind of comply with what their demands are,” said Honolulu CrimeStoppers Sgt. Chris Kim. “Most times they’re just after your property and it’s not worth getting killed or seriously hurt.”
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/09/03/authorities-urge-vigilance-amid-rash-violent-home-invasions-honolulu/
Sgt Chris Kim might as well have said:
“Keep your facial reconstruction insurance policy up to date and lube your holes every night before you go to bed to decrease the severity of soft tissue damage.”
Sgt. Kim and HPD may not have raped us citizens literally, but they sure have done so figuratively with their passive stance on crime like home invasions.
Post by: nickelzismoney on September 03, 2022, 06:19:01 AM
Sgt. Kim and HPD may not have raped us citizens literally, but they sure have done so figuratively with their passive stance on crime like home invasions.
Don’t give a shit. If someone wants to break into my home with a weapon, they will die. If they’re unarmed or I don’t feel them to be a huge risk to my safety, they will be detained like a prisoner and sit scared until the police come.
Post by: RSN172 on September 03, 2022, 06:56:55 AM
that no one gets alarmed. They figure you just shooting at wild pigs. I also have a backhoe.
Pigs will also eat almost anything, including bones.
I have 3 Rottweilers living in the house that alert me of unusual activity outside.
My advice to criminals “No come ova hea. You no going lik wat happen to you.”
Post by: nickelzismoney on September 03, 2022, 07:56:50 AM
I live in a remote area of the BI. Gunshots are so common, even in the wee hours of the morning,
that no one gets alarmed. They figure you just shooting at wild pigs. I also have a backhoe.
Pigs will also eat almost anything, including bones.
I have 3 Rottweilers living in the house that alert me of unusual activity outside.
My advice to criminals “No come ova hea. You no going lik wat happen to you.”
Same. My 4 dogs won’t be happy either. If they’re lucky enough to catch me sleeping, the dogs will let me know and they’ll have 3 pistols and a rifle in their face if they’re not attacked first
Post by: punaperson on September 03, 2022, 09:17:15 AM
I live in a remote area of the BI. Gunshots are so common, even in the wee hours of the morning,If a bumpstock is a machine gun, a backhoe is covered by the Second Amendment.
that no one gets alarmed. They figure you just shooting at wild pigs. I also have a backhoe.
Pigs will also eat almost anything, including bones.
I have 3 Rottweilers living in the house that alert me of unusual activity outside.
My advice to criminals “No come ova hea. You no going lik wat happen to you.”
Post by: hvybarrels on September 03, 2022, 11:13:15 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2xUynRdzzsM
Post by: Rhed on September 03, 2022, 01:03:28 PM
https://youtu.be/zbiEYtJNKOg
Post by: groveler on September 03, 2022, 01:08:21 PM
I live in a remote area of the BI. Gunshots are so common, even in the wee hours of the morning," have 3 Rottweilers living in the house that alert me of unusual activity outside."
that no one gets alarmed. They figure you just shooting at wild pigs. I also have a backhoe.
Pigs will also eat almost anything, including bones.
I have 3 Rottweilers living in the house that alert me of unusual activity outside.
My advice to criminals “No come ova hea. You no going lik wat happen to you.”
3 Rottweilers!
You have better doorbells than I do. I just have pig dogs, free running outside.
However I also have a big donkey that doesn't like strangers.
I also get gunfire. Sometimes full auto,
but that can't be, it is illegal.
I wonder how many cops would show if I called that in at 2200 hrs?
Chances are is it is their cousin out partying.
:thumbsup:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 03, 2022, 01:39:27 PM
Don’t give a shit. If someone wants to break into my home with a weapon, they will die. If they’re unarmed or I don’t feel them to be a huge risk to my safety, they will be detained like a prisoner and sit scared until the police come.
I can hear the perp now.
"What took you guys so long? He must have called 911 an hour ago! I was being held at gun point, and you Cops take your sweet-ass time!"
:rofl: :rofl:
Post by: hvybarrels on September 03, 2022, 01:45:11 PM
I wonder how many cops would show if I called that in at 2200 hrs?
Chances are is it is their cousin out partying.
:thumbsup:
You just made a heck of a point.
Chief Logan is denying permits because his violent criminal son could very well be one of the first contestants for the lawful self defense ambient temperature challenge.
Post by: 96707 on September 04, 2022, 03:01:08 PM
Post by: ren on September 04, 2022, 03:10:16 PM
My suspicion is HPD's public comment period will attrack overwheliming opposition and concern related to CCW. Businesses, retired police chiefs, Chris Lee, Karl Rhoades, and Pat Branco minions will come out of the wood work in opposition citing all of the dangers. The public comments will be unreal and obviously draw the attention of the governor and legislature. A special legislative session will be called to order because the impact CCW will have on Hawaii and tourism because funs are so dangerous. Nevermind people are literally storing explosives in their homes to llset off on 4th of July and New Years. Mark my words, spcial legislative session is coming. Legislators are already clearing their calendars.
These swamp creatures don't trust their constituents
Post by: aieahound on September 04, 2022, 08:17:56 PM
My suspicion is HPD's public comment period will attrack overwheliming opposition and concern related to CCW. Businesses, retired police chiefs, Chris Lee, Karl Rhoades, and Pat Branco minions will come out of the wood work in opposition citing all of the dangers. The public comments will be unreal and obviously draw the attention of the governor and legislature. A special legislative session will be called to order because the impact CCW will have on Hawaii and tourism because funs are so dangerous. Nevermind people are literally storing explosives in their homes to llset off on 4th of July and New Years. Mark my words, spcial legislative session is coming. Legislators are already clearing their calendars.
They actually published the hearing in the paper next to the letters to the editor and encouraged public comments be submitted.
You know who the paper was reaching out to and wasn’t us.
Post by: ren on September 04, 2022, 08:24:16 PM
Post by: nickelzismoney on September 04, 2022, 08:44:59 PM
You just made a heck of a point.
Chief Logan is denying permits because his violent criminal son could very well be one of the first contestants for the lawful self defense ambient temperature challenge.
it’s really not that hard to not be a total waste of space and oxygen. Not that hard to not be a piece of shit human being. Maybe if he taught his son the correct way to live and act, he wouldn’t have turned out this way. Or maybe he’s just always been the rebellious son of a cop.
Post by: ren on September 04, 2022, 09:09:24 PM
Post by: aieahound on September 04, 2022, 10:52:47 PM
What’s the current annual qualifying test for officers ?
Is it more than or equivalent to :
A shooting proficiency test. To pass, the applicant shall attain a minimum score of 75 points, out of a possible total of 125 points on the following 25-round course, using a National Rifle Association certified target:
(i) Three-yard line: 2 rounds in 6 seconds from a concealed holster;
three times (6 rounds / 4 second draw – 2 second split).
(ii) Five-yard line: 2 rounds in 6 seconds from a concealed holster;
two times (4 rounds / 4 second draw – 2 second split).
(iii) Seven-yard line: 5 rounds in 13 seconds from a concealed holster;
one time (5 rounds / 4 second draw – 2.25 second split).
(iv) Ten-yard line: 5 rounds in 15 seconds from a concealed holster;
one time (5 rounds / 4 sec. draw – 2.75 second split).
(v) Fifteen-yard line: 5 rounds in 20 seconds from a concealed
holster; one time (5 rounds / 4 second draw – 4 second split).
Think Sargeants and Majors and asst. chiefs and the Chief could pass ?
Serious questions. Need answer to prior to hearing.
Post by: oldfart on September 04, 2022, 11:33:01 PM
He passed the shooting test and has to wait about 4 months.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gjp4Z4KL/IMG-3824.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R6Pcr7yv)
I guess he had a good instructor :D
Post by: Rocky on September 05, 2022, 01:45:04 PM
I do find that for the NRA CCW, they use a standard IDPA.
Not sure if the 50yd NRA B27E is the same.
Post by: mill8316 on September 06, 2022, 01:01:22 AM
I am unaware and unable to find a "National Rifle Association certified target:" specifically for CCW much less any powder actuated pistol target for under 50ft. :wacko:
I do find that for the NRA CCW, they use a standard IDPA.
Not sure if the 50yd NRA B27E is the same.
NRA B27 seems to me from researching to be the only NRA target with a 5 point alternate scoring system. So I am guessing that is the target. I hope it is because that would be a lot more reasonable, than some tiny unrealistic target.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 06, 2022, 01:21:21 AM
Plus two more Sunday stabbings
https://www.kitv.com/news/rash-of-crimes-in-kalihi-pushing-mom-and-pop-shop-out-of-business/article_876a0aa0-2d97-11ed-8ec2-eb2a3cd636f9.html
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/kitv.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/3d/73dd099a-2d99-11ed-9cb3-af1148536c6d/6316c7a19e61d.image.png?resize=1269%2C587)
Post by: Heavies on September 06, 2022, 04:21:53 AM
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN, pursuant to Hawai‘i Revised Statutes chapter 91, of a public hearing to be held by the Honolulu Police Department (“HPD”) for the purpose of adopting Rules governing Firearm Permits and Licenses.
HRS 91-1 Definitions
"Agency" means each state or county board, commission, department, or
officer authorized by law to make rules or to adjudicate contested cases,
except those in the legislative or judicial branches.
"Rule" means each agency statement of general or particular applicability and
future effect that implements, interprets, or prescribes law or policy, or
describes the organization, procedure, or practice requirements of any
agency. The term does not include regulations concerning only the internal
management of an agency and not affecting private rights of or procedures
available to the public, nor does the term include declaratory rulings issued
pursuant to section 91-8, nor intra-agency memoranda.
HPD is not allowed to make rules that affect the legislative or judicial branches.
Rules can not affect private rights.
I dispute HPD authority to make rules governing Firearm Permits and Licenses.
I declare HPD is in violation of HRS 91.
To keep and bear arms is a civil right that does not fall under HRS 91 where it can be infringed upon by rules made by HPD.
Thank you for this info
Post by: Nostayhome on September 06, 2022, 04:53:58 AM
holster; one time (5 rounds / 4 second draw – 4 second split.
Would HPD even consider it self defense, if you shot someone at 15yds?
I highly doubt it!!
Post by: ren on September 06, 2022, 07:29:41 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/eliza-fletcher-abduction-memphis-police-find-body-near-where-billionaire-heiress-went-missing (https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/eliza-fletcher-abduction-memphis-police-find-body-near-where-billionaire-heiress-went-missing)
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 06, 2022, 08:28:49 AM
(v) Fifteen-yard line: 5 rounds in 20 seconds from a concealed
holster; one time (5 rounds / 4 second draw – 4 second split.
Would HPD even consider it self defense, if you shot someone at 15yds?
I highly doubt it!!
This is a very good avenue to pursuit. At what distance is it no longer self defense according to HI prosecutors.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 06, 2022, 08:30:26 AM
My son just moved to vegas where he just completed his ccw course.
He passed the shooting test and has to wait about 4 months.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gjp4Z4KL/IMG-3824.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R6Pcr7yv)
I guess he had a good instructor :D
NV law gives up to 120 days. Each time we got our CCW's it arrived just under the 120 day mark (119 days this past December).
Also NV allows any caliber to be used, so 1 could use a 22LR and their CCW is valid for any handgun. 1 permit for all. This is how HI CCW's should be, valid for ANY handgun.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 06, 2022, 08:35:11 AM
NV law gives up to 120 days. Each time we got our CCW's it arrived just under the 120 day mark (119 days this past December).
Also NV allows any caliber to be used, so 1 could use a 22LR and their CCW is valid for any handgun. 1 permit for all. This is how HI CCW's should be, valid for ANY handgun.
Agree. Makes sense. If one firearm needs repair/service another can be used in its place. Hawaii requiring a separate permit for each gun is insane and only shows they are not interested in citizens rights to bear arms.
Post by: groveler on September 06, 2022, 09:53:09 AM
Agree. Makes sense. If one firearm needs repair/service another can be used in its place. Hawaii requiring a separate permit for each gun is insane and only shows they are not interested in citizens rights to bear arms.Y'all know, you have not figured it out yet.
The government is NOT your fiend.
play ball with them and they will stuff the bat
up your behind.
Get used to that.
Act/plan accordingly.
:wtf:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 06, 2022, 09:56:16 AM
Y'all know, you have not figured it out yet.
The government is NOT your fiend.
play ball with them and they will stuff the bat
up your behind.
Get used to that.
Act/plan accordingly.
:wtf:
"Take that bat and shine it up real nicely. Then take the sumbitch and turn it sidewards and stick it up your candy ass" The Rock.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 06, 2022, 10:49:32 AM
This is a very good avenue to pursuit. At what distance is it no longer self defense according to HI prosecutors.
You're allowed to use force in defense of others, unless HI fails to recognize that facet of self defense, too.
If someone is being threatened, I don't think your distance is going to matter. Kind of like shooting a guy committing mass murder in a mall from 40 yards away.
If the attacker is armed with a firearm, and you're able to stop him from whatever your distance is, then the attacker was a threat to you as well.
Logic.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 06, 2022, 10:55:55 AM
Agree. Makes sense. If one firearm needs repair/service another can be used in its place. Hawaii requiring a separate permit for each gun is insane and only shows they are not interested in citizens rights to bear arms.
Sounds like a perfect application for a modular trigger-group firearm. Can change out all the components as the need arises while retaining the serial number of the firearm used for the test.
You can even change calibers. If anyone ever questions it, say the department must have made a clerical error. They do it all the time. But, your gun's serial number will match the license.
:thumbsup: :geekdanc:
The main purpose for the Sig P320 modular trigger design was for countries that only allow one handgun per owner. The ability to swap grip sizes, slide & barrel lengths, and even calibers meant being able to own one handgun that meets more than one need.
:shaka:
Post by: Rocky on September 06, 2022, 11:16:50 AM
Would HPD even consider it self defense, if you shot someone at 15yds?
I highly doubt it!!
In most states, it's determining imminence or reasonableness (as seen thru the eyes of a "reasonable" person
(a) the nature of the danger;
(b) the immediacy of the danger;
(c) the probability that the unlawful force would result in death or serious bodily injury;
Post by: Rocky on September 06, 2022, 11:19:22 AM
You're allowed to use force in defense of others, unless HI fails to recognize that facet of self defense, too.
Won't post all pages but here it is with no reference to firearms.( See HRS 703)
Hawaii's Good Samaritan Laws
HRS § 663-1.5:
Exception to liability.
Post by: drck1000 on September 06, 2022, 11:20:02 AM
In most states, it's determining imminence or reasonableness (as seen thru the eyes of a "reasonable" persondisparity of force? :-\
(a) the nature of the danger;
(b) the immediacy of the danger;
(c) the probability that the unlawful force would result in death or serious bodily injury;
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 06, 2022, 11:22:08 AM
You're allowed to use force in defense of others, unless HI fails to recognize that facet of self defense, too.
If someone is being threatened, I don't think your distance is going to matter. Kind of like shooting a guy committing mass murder in a mall from 40 yards away.
If the attacker is armed with a firearm, and you're able to stop him from whatever your distance is, then the attacker was a threat to you as well.
Logic.
Good thing our use of deadly force law states "belief". So articulation is key.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 06, 2022, 11:28:07 AM
Armchair referees.
Armchair self defense analysts.
Put any of them in a real world situation and I wonder if their actions would match their analysis.
Post by: Rocky on September 06, 2022, 11:35:10 AM
disparity of force? :-\I am not a lawyer (#NotALawyer)
That would be under (a) the nature of the danger;
Example is of disparity of force would be several large antagonist's heckling you
(a) Nature of threat
The several antagonist's heckling you are now approaching you
(b) threat has now advanced upon you increasing the "immediacy" of the possibility of severe bodily injury
You've announced that you wish for them to stop their advance (LOL) but they persist.
(c) now the probability of suffering severe bodily injury is very high to the point where a decision regarding avoiding said severe bodily injury must be made.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 06, 2022, 11:38:54 AM
Armchair Quarterback.
Armchair referees.
Armchair self defense analysts.
Put any of them in a real world situation and I wonder if their actions would match their analysis.
Theres a vid of a civil rights activist who was all anti police and stuff. So they gave him a simunition involved scenarios. And he ended up shooting unarmed people. They he changed his anti police tune and supports their hard decisions.
* "I didn't know how important complance was....people need to comply"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g&t=227s
Post by: aieahound on September 06, 2022, 12:41:47 PM
Won't post all pages but here it is with no reference to firearms.( See HRS 703)
Hawaii's Good Samaritan Laws
HRS § 663-1.5:
Exception to liability.
Check out HRS 663-1.6 Duty to Assist
Section 663-1.6 - Duty to assist person at the scene of a crime who knows that a victim of the crime is suffering from serious physical harm shall obtain or attempt to obtain aid from law enforcement or medical personnel if the person can do so without danger or peril to any person. Any person who violates this subsection is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.
(b) Any person who provides reasonable assistance in compliance with subsection (a) shall not be liable in civil damages unless the person's acts constitute gross negligence or wanton acts or omissions, or unless the person receives or expects to receive remuneration. Nothing contained in this subsection shall alter existing law with respect to tort liability of a physician licensed to practice under the laws of this State committed in the ordinary course of the physician's practice.
(c) Any person who fails to provide reasonable assistance in compliance with subsection (a) shall not be liable for any civil damages.
HRS § 663-1.6
L 1984, c 140, §1
Section imposes on the perpetrator of a crime a duty to obtain necessary medical aid for the victim.73 Haw. 236, 831 P.2d 924. Where evidence that child was a victim of battered child syndrome was relevant to show that child's death was not an accident, but the result of an intentional, knowing or reckless criminal act, giving rise to a duty on defendant's part to obtain medical care for child pursuant to this section, trial court did not err in admitting expert testimony that child was a victim of battered child syndrome.101 Haw. 332,68 P.3d 606. Applicable to the perpetrator of a crime. 8 H. App. 506, 810 P.2d 672.
Wild. You have a duty to call EMS and/or the cops if you witness someone suffering from severe bodily injury.
Even the perp has a duty to call them after he beats/stabs/shoots you. Good luck with that. :wacko:
Otherwise wise petty misdemeanor tack on charge. I’m sure they’re concerned about that.
Other than the modified “Castle Doctrine” what are the standards for use of deadly force outside the home premises under HRS ?
Looks like you can but still have a duty to retreat if possible outside the home or place of work.
§703-304 Use of force in self-protection. (1) Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 703-308, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by the other person on the present occasion.
(2) The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if the actor believes that deadly force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy.
(3) Except as otherwise provided in subsections (4) and (5) of this section, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity thereof under the circumstances as he believes them to be when the force is used without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do, or abstaining from any lawful action.
(4) The use of force is not justifiable under this section:
(a) To resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a law enforcement officer, although the arrest is unlawful; or
(b) To resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:
(i) The actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest; or
(ii) The actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily injury.
(5) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if:
(a) The actor, with the intent of causing death or serious bodily injury, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or
(b) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:
(i) The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; and
(ii) A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties, or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape, is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform his duty, effect the arrest, or prevent the escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom the action is directed.
(6) The justification afforded by this section extends to the use of confinement as protective force only if the actor takes all reasonable measures to terminate the confinement as soon as he knows that he safely can, unless the person confined has been arrested on a charge of crime. [L 1972, c 9, pt of §1; ree L 1975, c 163, §3; am L 2001, c 91, §4]
(Emphasis added)
Edit:
Can you protect someone else outside the home or work ?
Looks like can but you better have a damn good reason for it and have your ducks in a row when they arrest you.
Statute only refers to protect himself. And you have no legal duty to protect others but apparently you do have a legal duty to call the police.
Hope I’m reading this wrong and see the next post by CMO.
I am NOT a lawyer.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 06, 2022, 01:06:38 PM
Check out HRS 663-1.6 Duty to Assist
Section 663-1.6 - Duty to assist person at the scene of a crime who knows that a victim of the crime is suffering from serious physical harm shall obtain or attempt to obtain aid from law enforcement or medical personnel if the person can do so without danger or peril to any person. Any person who violates this subsection is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.
(b) Any person who provides reasonable assistance in compliance with subsection (a) shall not be liable in civil damages unless the person's acts constitute gross negligence or wanton acts or omissions, or unless the person receives or expects to receive remuneration. Nothing contained in this subsection shall alter existing law with respect to tort liability of a physician licensed to practice under the laws of this State committed in the ordinary course of the physician's practice.
(c) Any person who fails to provide reasonable assistance in compliance with subsection (a) shall not be liable for any civil damages.
HRS § 663-1.6
L 1984, c 140, §1
Section imposes on the perpetrator of a crime a duty to obtain necessary medical aid for the victim.73 Haw. 236, 831 P.2d 924. Where evidence that child was a victim of battered child syndrome was relevant to show that child's death was not an accident, but the result of an intentional, knowing or reckless criminal act, giving rise to a duty on defendant's part to obtain medical care for child pursuant to this section, trial court did not err in admitting expert testimony that child was a victim of battered child syndrome.101 Haw. 332,68 P.3d 606. Applicable to the perpetrator of a crime. 8 H. App. 506, 810 P.2d 672.
Wild. You have a duty to call EMS and/or the cops if you witness someone suffering from severe bodily injury.
Even the perp has a duty to call them after he beats/stabs/shoots you. Good luck with that. :wacko:
Otherwise wise petty misdemeanor tack on charge. I’m sure they’re concerned about that.
Other than the modified “Castle Doctrine” what are the standards for use of deadly force outside the home premises under HRS ?
Looks like you can but still have a duty to retreat if possible outside the home.
§703-304 Use of force in self-protection. (1) Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 703-308, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by the other person on the present occasion.
(2) The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if the actor believes that deadly force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy.
(3) Except as otherwise provided in subsections (4) and (5) of this section, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity thereof under the circumstances as he believes them to be when the force is used without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do, or abstaining from any lawful action.
(4) The use of force is not justifiable under this section:
(a) To resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a law enforcement officer, although the arrest is unlawful; or
(b) To resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:
(i) The actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest; or
(ii) The actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily injury.
(5) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if:
(a) The actor, with the intent of causing death or serious bodily injury, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or
(b) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:
(i) The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; and
(ii) A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties, or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape, is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform his duty, effect the arrest, or prevent the escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom the action is directed.
(6) The justification afforded by this section extends to the use of confinement as protective force only if the actor takes all reasonable measures to terminate the confinement as soon as he knows that he safely can, unless the person confined has been arrested on a charge of crime. [L 1972, c 9, pt of §1; ree L 1975, c 163, §3; am L 2001, c 91, §4]
I am not a lawyer.
Unlike the use of a Taser, one cannot use deadly force to protect another.
This is the wilder part:
"(5) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if:
(b) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:"
So if you state " I used a (enter deadly force object) because he was robbing me". Then you're screwed because you have to surrender said item upon demand. Vs. "I used a (enter deadly force object) because I thought he was going to kill me". Articulation is key.
Added Bonus Info:
In NV, where you can open carry without a permit and CCW's are issued like gravy, "belief" isn't in their use of deadly force law. So HI actually has more leeway with the use of deadly force. Which is why I'm surprised that smoke shop Nguyen hasn't been charged/arrested.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 06, 2022, 03:24:01 PM
Unlike the use of a Taser, one cannot use deadly force to protect another.
This is the wilder part:
"(5) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if:
(b) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:"
So if you state " I used a (enter deadly force object) because he was robbing me". Then you're screwed because you have to surrender said item upon demand. Vs. "I used a (enter deadly force object) because I thought he was going to kill me". Articulation is key.
Added Bonus Info:
In NV, where you can open carry without a permit and CCW's are issued like gravy, "belief" isn't in their use of deadly force law. So HI actually has more leeway with the use of deadly force. Which is why I'm surprised that smoke shop Nguyen hasn't been charged/arrested.
Nope. If you're being robbed, then the person robbing you can make no claim of right to your property.
From the HRS commentary on this statute:
Quote
Where a person offers deadly force unless another surrenders property to him, and claims a
right to the property, it is certainly sound policy to save life and litigate the disputed ownership
in court. Naturally, however, this rule does not apply in cases of robbery, where the assailant
can make no claim of right, and it is the purpose of the Code to permit deadly resistance
to robbery if the conditions of subsection (2) are met.
Quote
(2) The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if the actor believes that deadly forcehttps://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm
is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible
sodomy.
While you still have a requirement to articulate you were in fear for your life and safety, you do not have to give up your property to a robber in order to try and defuse the attack.
Post by: aieahound on September 06, 2022, 06:58:49 PM
Nope. If you're being robbed, then the person robbing you can make no claim of right to your property.
From the HRS commentary on this statute:https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm
While you still have a requirement to articulate you were in fear for your life and safety, you do not have to give up your property to a robber in order to try and defuse the attack.
Regarding your first HRS commentary quote.
From the HRS commentary on this statute:
Quote
Where a person offers deadly force unless another surrenders property to him, and claims a
right to the property, it is certainly sound policy to save life and litigate the disputed ownership
in court. Naturally, however, this rule does not apply in cases of robbery, where the assailant
can make no claim of right, and it is the purpose of the Code to permit deadly resistance
to robbery if the conditions of subsection (2) are met.
is the next sentence:
“Finally, deadly force is impermissible if the actor can avoid using it by complying with a demand that he refrain from any action which he has no duty to take. Again, the policy of saving life seems more insistent than the right of the individual to complete freedom of action.”
Not sure what it means.
Hope this is not derailing the thread but all you boys planning to conceal carry in Hawaii better know the conditions in which you can use it.
Lengthy legal battles.
I wanted to conceal carry but can’t pass the test with my snubby, sure as hell not weak handed and can’t carry it in my pocket.
Really just wanted to protect myself and loved ones against knives and dire straights.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 06, 2022, 08:06:34 PM
You cannot do this. You cannot do that. But if you do this, you can also do that, except when you do this before you do that. WTF??!!
Whose side are you on, you piece of shiite prosecutors, politicians, and goons of HPD?
Post by: nickelzismoney on September 06, 2022, 08:45:47 PM
Post by: ren on September 06, 2022, 09:14:43 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 06, 2022, 10:03:50 PM
Unlike the use of a Taser, one cannot use deadly force to protect another.
This is the wilder part:
"(5) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if:
(b) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:"
So if you state " I used a (enter deadly force object) because he was robbing me". Then you're screwed because you have to surrender said item upon demand. Vs. "I used a (enter deadly force object) because I thought he was going to kill me". Articulation is key.
Added Bonus Info:
In NV, where you can open carry without a permit and CCW's are issued like gravy, "belief" isn't in their use of deadly force law. So HI actually has more leeway with the use of deadly force. Which is why I'm surprised that smoke shop Nguyen hasn't been charged/arrested.
The law doesn't state that deadly force cannot be used to protect another, it just doesn't mention deadly force (703-305)
I haven't yet been able to find anything clearly defining what it means to "assert a claim of right to" but as I read it I think that covers disputes in ownership and things like repossession, not general theft by force
Post by: aieahound on September 07, 2022, 10:25:16 PM
STATE OF HAWAII FIREARM CERTIFICATION
FOR QUALIFIED RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS
…
(25) The target used for a shooting course shall be a B-21 silhouette target or any target approved by the attorney general. A sample of the B-21 silhouette target is attached at page 13.
…
(27) To pass the shooting course, the applicant must fire exactly forty-three rounds, and each of the forty-three rounds must strike the black silhouette area of the target, and no less than forty rounds must strike within the 5X scoring area ("coke bottle"). If any round strikes outside of the black silhouette area, the applicant shall fail the course.
https://ag.hawaii.gov/cjd/files/2014/11/LEOSA-Interim-Management-Regulation-102814.pdf
Nothing about weak side hand and target looks a lot bigger than 8x11. Maybe 35x45 ? (Don’t know about coke bottle area though)
https://www.amazon.com/B21-Target-Police-Silhouette-Disable/dp/B07KTSHD1Y
Couldn’t find anything about qualify with gun they are gonna carry. Nor inside the waist band draw.
I truly believe over half the cops can’t qualify for CCW under proposed rules.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 07, 2022, 10:40:15 PM
Call me naive but I fail to see why one has to comply with all this "policy of saving life" BS double speak legalese crap when it is clear that the f**kn low-life is hell bent on either killing or inflicting life long injuries to you or your loved one(s).
You cannot do this. You cannot do that. But if you do this, you can also do that, except when you do this before you do that. WTF??!!
Whose side are you on, you piece of shiite prosecutors, politicians, and goons of HPD?
Yeah, when you're in the moment, and it's your ass on the line, you are going to make the decisions that YOU think will best serve YOU. It's difficult for most people to pull a trigger on another person, so all these "codified lessons" contained in the law are superfluous. It's all subjective, but it makes the lawmakers "feel better" if they include their personal morals and advice along side the parts that make it legal to take a life.
When OK passed a castle doctrine bill the first time in the 1980s they aired a bunch of PSAs during the news casts. The PSAa included basically "FAQs" on when it's legal to use lethal force, when it absolutely is not, and what the consequences may be if a jury doesn't agree with your rationale.
For example, you hear your pickup start up in the front yard, You run outside in time to see someone driving away with it. Legally, you can't shoot them, because they are fleeing and not posing a threat to you or anyone else at the house. However, if you make it outside in time to see who's stealing your truck, and the thief tries to run you over (possibly to eliminate a witness), you're allowed to protect yourself with lethal force.
That's just one example. They had a bunch of PSAs like that, many based on questions the news station received from viewers.
The biggest problem with Hawaii is, they can't tell you whether anything you do is legal or not until after it's too late. The AG only gives advice to the state agencies. The public that pays all their salaries and operations budgets are told to go hire a lawyer.
Post by: 96707 on September 08, 2022, 05:33:05 AM
Post by: Rocky on September 08, 2022, 07:37:39 AM
STATE OF HAWAII FIREARM CERTIFICATION(https://i.postimg.cc/v18R2W5X/R.gif) (https://postimg.cc/v18R2W5X)
FOR QUALIFIED RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS
Nothing about weak side hand and target looks a lot bigger than 8x11. Maybe 35x45 ? (Don’t know about coke bottle area though)
B-21 Target measures 22.5" x 35"
The law doesn't state that deadly force cannot be used to protect another, it just doesn't mention deadly force (703-305)See §703-304 as well as §703-308.
But you knew that already.
Post by: Rocky on September 08, 2022, 07:59:58 AM
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=47295.msg433215#msg433215
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 08, 2022, 08:47:27 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/v18R2W5X/R.gif) (https://postimg.cc/v18R2W5X)
See §703-304 as well as §703-308.
But you knew that already.
The issue with this target is that Kokohead doesn't allow it. So they would have to change their rules. And since the rules for the chief are vague, will HPD accept this type of target? What I see happening is that since as it currently is, there is no specific target mentioned, instructors use what ever they want and HPD makes up their rules at the desk. You know, it's now like they have a history of doing that with other issues.
What is mentioned is that the written test must be approved by HPD for it to count, as in the instructor has to submit the format and once approved, they can use it for their classes.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 08, 2022, 10:20:46 AM
Quote
Defense attorney Megan Kau said the law states that a person can use deadly force to defend himhttps://www.khon2.com/news/hawaiis-law-on-using-deadly-force/
or herself from deadly force if they believe it’s reasonably necessary.
“In other words, you can’t bring a knife to a fistfight, you can’t bring a gun to a knife fight, you have
to use the same force the person is using against you in order for you to be justified,” she said.
That, my friends, is complete and utter stupidity. Do Cops leave their service weapons holstered and only draw knives if the person they are subduing is "only" armed with a knife?
These people watch too many Cop TV shows and movies.
In a contest using deadly force (including knives), there is no such thing as a second place winner. Either you win, or you lose.
These "rules" are based on a desire to protect the criminals, not the victims.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 08, 2022, 10:23:32 AM
This state's legal system has some seriously messed up views on self defense.
https://www.khon2.com/news/hawaiis-law-on-using-deadly-force/
That, my friends, is complete and utter stupidity. Do Cops leave their service weapons holstered and only draw knives if the person they are subduing is "only" armed with a knife?
These people watch too many Cop TV shows and movies.
In a contest using deadly force (including knives), there is no such thing as a second place winner. Either you win, or you lose.
These "rules" are based on a desire to protect the criminals, not the victims.
She got flamed for this when she made the statement. Which makes me wonder how good of a defense atty she is. Like when Matayoshi talks about how to buy a gun on "What's the Law" segment on the news and she was wrong too. We know Matayoshi is anti 2a, and Kau is more pro 2A as she showed up to a few of our HIFICO gatherings. But I kept my distance and was careful what I said around her.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 08, 2022, 10:31:58 AM
She got flamed for this when she made the statement. Which makes me wonder how good of a defense atty she is. Like when Matayoshi talks about how to buy a gun on "What's the Law" segment on the news and she was wrong too. We know Matayoshi is anti 2a, and Kau is more pro 2A as she showed up to a few of our HIFICO gatherings. But I kept my distance and was careful what I said around her.
Maybe she was publicly "flamed," but the fact remains this is how she was taught, understands and applies the statutes on self defense. She's not a "layman." She's a trained and experienced DEFENSE ATTORNEY.
If she's dumb enough to make her backward positions on SD public, think about all the others who think the same and are smart enough to keep their mouths shut outside the courtroom.
This is one reason I theorize the AG doesn't interpret the law for anyone outside of government or the courtroom: If they actually made their ridiculous legal opinions known to the public, they'd be run out of office lickety-split!
Post by: surfmaster on September 08, 2022, 11:26:18 AM
https://www.kitv.com/news/local/kauai-police-issue-revised-permitting-and-application-process-for-gun-licenses/article_1693a246-2fae-11ed-bc63-bb524031ac57.html
-Copy of current Firearm Registration for firearm to be carried.
-Copy of signed Firearms Proficiency Test including scores (test must be dated within 90 days of application):
-Firearms Proficiency Test must be taken with the firearm to be carried (Minimum Qualification course of fire and proficiency standards located online at KPD’s website);
Handgun Qualification/ Proficiency Course Of Fire - MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS:
https://www.kauai.gov/Portals/0/KPD/Firearms/KPD%20Supplement%20To%20Application%20For%20License%20To%20Carry%20Firearm%20Concealed-Unconcealed-%20Handgun%20Qualification-%20Proficiency%20Course%20Of%20Fire.pdf
There is one weak hand string: 10 yards, 6 rounds, no time constraints, standing, standing (barricade WEAK HAND)
-Firearms Proficiency Test must be administered by a state-certified or National Rifle Association Firearms Instructor of the Applicant’s choosing (include instructor certification); and-
Signed Shooting Proficiency Test results must include shooting scores – pass/fail only is not sufficient.
-Two passport-sized, front-facing color photographs of Applicant (taken within past 30 days).
-For applications needed for employment purposes, please complete the notarized Private Security Employer Certification Application.
WHAT ARE HPD'S REQUIREMENTS? WHY IS A PUBLIC HEARING NEEDED WHEN KAUAI ALREADY HAS THIS INFO?
Post by: Rocky on September 08, 2022, 11:51:40 AM
The issue with this target is that Kokohead doesn't allow it. So they would have to change their rules. And since the rules for the chief are vague, will HPD accept this type of target? What I see happening is that since as it currently is, there is no specific target mentioned, instructors use what ever they want and HPD makes up their rules at the desk. You know, it's now like they have a history of doing that with other issues.Adapt, Improvise, overcome
What is mentioned is that the written test must be approved by HPD for it to count, as in the instructor has to submit the format and once approved, they can use it for their classes.
Black out all but the scoring portion.(https://i.postimg.cc/w3xzb6JB/B-21-E-CB-800x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3xzb6JB)
Draw or copy similar image (https://i.postimg.cc/w18bZVPk/Stainless-Steel-Coke-Shaped-Bottle17oz-White-500x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w18bZVPk)
Get literal (https://i.postimg.cc/DWcDqXxP/il-794x-N-2323894927-k2pb.webp) (https://postimg.cc/DWcDqXxP)
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 08, 2022, 11:57:49 AM
The Kauai Police Department's new concealed carry permitting and application process:
https://www.kitv.com/news/local/kauai-police-issue-revised-permitting-and-application-process-for-gun-licenses/article_1693a246-2fae-11ed-bc63-bb524031ac57.html
-Copy of current Firearm Registration for firearm to be carried.
-Copy of signed Firearms Proficiency Test including scores (test must be dated within 90 days of application):
-Firearms Proficiency Test must be taken with the firearm to be carried (Minimum Qualification course of fire and proficiency standards located online at KPD’s website);
Handgun Qualification/ Proficiency Course Of Fire - MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS:
https://www.kauai.gov/Portals/0/KPD/Firearms/KPD%20Supplement%20To%20Application%20For%20License%20To%20Carry%20Firearm%20Concealed-Unconcealed-%20Handgun%20Qualification-%20Proficiency%20Course%20Of%20Fire.pdf
There is one weak hand string: 10 yards, 6 rounds, no time constraints, standing, standing (barricade WEAK HAND)
-Firearms Proficiency Test must be administered by a state-certified or National Rifle Association Firearms Instructor of the Applicant’s choosing (include instructor certification); and-
Signed Shooting Proficiency Test results must include shooting scores – pass/fail only is not sufficient.
-Two passport-sized, front-facing color photographs of Applicant (taken within past 30 days).
-For applications needed for employment purposes, please complete the notarized Private Security Employer Certification Application.
WHAT ARE HPD'S REQUIREMENTS? WHY IS A PUBLIC HEARING NEEDED WHEN KAUAI ALREADY HAS THIS INFO?
The news link was posted 2 hrs ago, but the firearm qual remains the same. Which does have time limits to it. So if anyone purse or bag carries, you won't be able to/be very difficult to pass as you only have 3 seconds to finish the 1st COF. Which is 2rds at 3 yards and 3 seconds. Then 2nd COF is 7 yards, 1 rd at 2 seconds. A decent time for IWB draw and fire is 1.5 seconds. So to remove the gun from a bag and fire and get a good score is much more difficult.
And that intrusive liability wiaver still stands. "In order to permit KPD to make a thorough investigation of my background, family, mental health, and othe relevant info...I release from liability and proise to hold harmless from any liability under all possible legal causes of action".
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 08, 2022, 11:58:38 AM
Adapt, Improvise, overcome
Black out all but the scoring portion.(https://i.postimg.cc/w3xzb6JB/B-21-E-CB-800x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3xzb6JB)
Draw or copy similar image (https://i.postimg.cc/w18bZVPk/Stainless-Steel-Coke-Shaped-Bottle17oz-White-500x.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w18bZVPk)
Get literal (https://i.postimg.cc/DWcDqXxP/il-794x-N-2323894927-k2pb.webp) (https://postimg.cc/DWcDqXxP)
Hahahahha, that's a good one. Funny but not funny, cause we will probably have to use this.
Post by: BRU on September 08, 2022, 01:15:44 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 08, 2022, 01:39:04 PM
The wording and proficiency test for KPD and Hawaii PD look the same.
Their waivers also are very similar. Unknown if Oahu will do the same waiver.
Post by: macsak on September 08, 2022, 01:41:37 PM
Their waivers also are very similar. Unknown if Oahu will do the same waiver.
garans they will...
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 08, 2022, 02:04:39 PM
Post by: Rocky on September 08, 2022, 03:11:46 PM
garans they will...Ya mean I have to give up my rights to exercise my rights ? :wacko:
Post by: Rocky on September 08, 2022, 03:18:33 PM
How Armed Citizen Raul Mendez Took a Bullet & Stopped a Mass Shooting
https://www.msn.com/en-us/?cvid=ab94271f2c11405e9649bf2ac8047c19
with NRA vid
https://www.ballisticmag.com/raul-mendez-mass-shooting/
Post by: Rocky on September 08, 2022, 03:39:54 PM
Every day citizens (us) pick their favorite LEO to compete against every day citizens (us) in the HPD Chief Rules Shooting Proficiency Test.
No SWAT, Marksman, Sniper, Special Services allowed on LEO side.
No IPSC, IDPA, USPSA or professional competitive shooters on the civie side
Teams of 10 -20 each, $100 per person entry fee.
ALL proceeds donated to (P.A.L.) Police Activities League (think of the children). :love:
I'm in. :D
Post by: ren on September 08, 2022, 05:20:07 PM
Post by: ren on September 08, 2022, 05:21:26 PM
Post by: Heavies on September 08, 2022, 05:54:28 PM
there are certain gun shop(s) that will benefit from all these "proposed" rules.
They are absolutely salivating. Wonder if we can cash in those promised freebies?
Post by: ren on September 08, 2022, 06:08:49 PM
They are absolutely salivating. Wonder if we can cash in those promised freebies?
I think we are on the same freq. of 96797
Post by: nickelzismoney on September 08, 2022, 08:50:01 PM
The Kauai Police Department's new concealed carry permitting and application process:
https://www.kitv.com/news/local/kauai-police-issue-revised-permitting-and-application-process-for-gun-licenses/article_1693a246-2fae-11ed-bc63-bb524031ac57.html
-Copy of current Firearm Registration for firearm to be carried.
-Copy of signed Firearms Proficiency Test including scores (test must be dated within 90 days of application):
-Firearms Proficiency Test must be taken with the firearm to be carried (Minimum Qualification course of fire and proficiency standards located online at KPD’s website);
Handgun Qualification/ Proficiency Course Of Fire - MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS:
https://www.kauai.gov/Portals/0/KPD/Firearms/KPD%20Supplement%20To%20Application%20For%20License%20To%20Carry%20Firearm%20Concealed-Unconcealed-%20Handgun%20Qualification-%20Proficiency%20Course%20Of%20Fire.pdf
There is one weak hand string: 10 yards, 6 rounds, no time constraints, standing, standing (barricade WEAK HAND)
-Firearms Proficiency Test must be administered by a state-certified or National Rifle Association Firearms Instructor of the Applicant’s choosing (include instructor certification); and-
Signed Shooting Proficiency Test results must include shooting scores – pass/fail only is not sufficient.
-Two passport-sized, front-facing color photographs of Applicant (taken within past 30 days).
-For applications needed for employment purposes, please complete the notarized Private Security Employer Certification Application.
WHAT ARE HPD'S REQUIREMENTS? WHY IS A PUBLIC HEARING NEEDED WHEN KAUAI ALREADY HAS THIS INFO?
Don’t forget Big Island too
Post by: Rocky on September 09, 2022, 09:04:03 AM
Their waivers also are very similar. Unknown if Oahu will do the same waiver.Just thought I would see what other states require for Concealed Carry Shooting Qualification.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2022, 09:07:48 AM
Just thought I would see what other states require for Concealed Carry Shooting Qualification.Thanks for the info :shaka:
https://everydaycarryconcealed.com/concealed-carry-shooting-requirements-distance-qualification-more/
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 09, 2022, 11:50:29 AM
There is one weak hand string: 10 yards, 6 rounds, no time constraints, standing, standing (barricade WEAK HAND)
I fail to understand why this part of the test is even needed. I certainly understand some competency in shooting with the weak hand, but to test someone and specify no time constraints, it doesn't make sense.
It's not like the perpetrator is gonna say, "No worries, Bro, take your time."
I mean, in a way it's good for the CCW candidate that there are no time constraints for the weak hand while undergoing the test but I argue that this is irrelevant and should be eliminated.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 09, 2022, 12:02:35 PM
I fail to understand why this part of the test is even needed. I certainly understand some competency in shooting with the weak hand, but to test someone and specify no time constraints, it doesn't make sense.
It's not like the perpetrator is gonna say, "No worries, Bro, take your time."
I mean, in a way it's good for the CCW candidate that there are no time constraints for the weak hand while undergoing the test but I argue that this is irrelevant and should be eliminated.
CCW tests should be geared to allow shooters the flexibility to hold the gun however they want. Making the test more difficult by adding a variety of grips and stances is nothing more than an attempt to fail as many applicants as possible.
If the INDIVIDUAL wants more training on the various ways he may possibly be forced to fire his pistol, that's up to the individuals. Unless gov't wants to fund week-long training courses for all applicants, testing requirements should be based on proficiency standards, not military or law enforcement skills.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2022, 01:16:29 PM
Post by: Rocky on September 09, 2022, 02:02:21 PM
Add in anyone who's unable to use their other hand due to an injury or deformity. Like Flapp said, it's a way for them to add failure in.
Discriminating against the handicapped and disabled. :grrr:
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 09, 2022, 02:41:21 PM
Discriminating against the handicapped and disabled. :grrr:
"I do not get t exercise my 2a right because I lost my trigger finger, left hand/arm . :crazy:
I have a co-worker buddy from when I was still working that would fall in this category. He is normal in every way, keeps himself trim and fit, except for one deformity:
He was born with his left index finger and middle finger conjoined together on his dominant hand. We always had good laughs when he used to "flip" the bird at someone. That's one big middle finger, lol!!
Anyway, he forced himself to use his weak hand and now everything is as if this hand was always his dominant. His biggest regret in life was not being able to serve our country in the military even though he told them he can shoot with his other hand.
Anyway, because of the test standards, he will not be able to get a CCW, which to me sucks big time.
Post by: ren on September 09, 2022, 03:10:26 PM
Post by: Rocky on September 09, 2022, 03:11:24 PM
Now my question is, do we qualify using the Shooting Proficiency test as in the Rules of COP (15-20 1 (C) or those in the Supplement to Apply for License to Carry ? :wacko:
Post by: 4mifamilia on September 09, 2022, 03:55:19 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 10, 2022, 11:41:01 AM
This is like herding cats. And the CCW permit is not valid between counties? How stupid.
Post by: Heavies on September 10, 2022, 12:03:32 PM
This is all a dog and pony show. They give not one rip about your suggestions or input. Typical democrat authoritarian tyranny. Right in plain view right here.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 10, 2022, 01:36:46 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but Kaui has the testing requirements using the weak hand. HPD's testing requirements does not. Not sure what the Big Island's testing requirements are.BI is like Kauai. Oahus one is not solid yet and can change after the 10/4 hearing.
This is like herding cats. And the CCW permit is not valid between counties? How stupid.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 10, 2022, 01:50:34 PM
Since when did "We'll have a hearing in October" become synonymous with "We'll start issuing the licenses by the end of August?"
Does anybody in government ever have to account for the things they do and say?
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 10, 2022, 03:57:31 PM
You can testify but your two minutes, or your e-mail, or your handwritten letter will be met with a smile and a "Thank you for coming but don't let the door slam you in the ass on your way out".
Post by: ren on September 10, 2022, 04:02:31 PM
I'm confused.I think the Chief was under a lot of political pressure to walk back on his initial statement. I think the City and/or State leadership stepped in and removed the Chief from authorizing any law-abiding citizen CCW. Well, for those that are not politically connected of course. The "powers that be" could not fathom the average citizen protecting themselves without help from the government. We have devolved into a population that relies heavily on the State of Hawaii. That's why we have one of the largest per capita governments in the U.S. But back to topic.
Since when did "We'll have a hearing in October" become synonymous with "We'll start issuing the licenses by the end of August?"
Does anybody in government ever have to account for the things they do and say?
I guess we'd have to look at all those that were granted in the past and if they were given the same requirements. I doubt Ben Cayetano could pass all those reqs.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 10, 2022, 04:14:56 PM
I'm confused.And he only mentioned it when someone called in to the last radio show of august. Not like a hifico officer went to hpd everyday and logan could have let him know.
Since when did "We'll have a hearing in October" become synonymous with "We'll start issuing the licenses by the end of August?"
Does anybody in government ever have to account for the things they do and say?
How long did logan know of this hearing? This is why i said corruption and 1 person doubts it.
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Post by: RSN172 on September 10, 2022, 09:49:29 PM
A lot of people.who need it the most will not qualify because of their physical condition. Arthritis, a stroke, injury and a dozen other reasons why one cannot use their "weak" hand.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 11, 2022, 06:25:06 AM
All this bullshit and I am.pretty.sure you will have to go through it every year. Every 6 months if Lee and Rhoads get their way. Any other state has a CCW permit time that short? This is why so many say F it and carry anyway. Take the rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 and it is my constitutional right permit.
A lot of people.who need it the most will not qualify because of their physical condition. Arthritis, a stroke, injury and a dozen other reasons why one cannot use their "weak" hand.
I wasn't that optimistic about the statement from the Chief about being able to start issuing permits at the end of August. I am extremely disappointed but not surprised it was walked back and now we have an Oct. 4th Hearing.
Little by little new information came out, many of them vague and totally unrealistic. Type 2 holsters required. Weak hand included in live fire qualification. 1 year or less before renewal of license. Going through all the circus hoops again and again to "re-new" the license. (In reality, it's a new application, just like when you "re-new" a long gun permit.) Total BS.
Oh, and a separate application if you want to carry another firearm for CCW. Just like when you want to acquire another handgun. Separate application. Another qualification test. Another one of the endless string of BS spewing out of the counties and state of Hawaii.
Again, extremely disappointing but sad to say, not surprising.
For me, Oct. 4th cannot come soon enough. It will finally present the CCW program in all it's glory and BS. Testimonies will be taken but I sincerely doubt it will change anything.
The faster this date comes and goes, the faster I can lend support to any lawsuit actions taken against this BS.
I'm not schooled in the legal aspect of things, but I can support those who are and have the courage and willingness to fight them.
edited to add: I still plan to submit written testimony.
Post by: Rocky on September 11, 2022, 07:33:17 AM
Post by: RSN172 on September 11, 2022, 07:54:41 AM
No body has an answer ?If I was administering the test, the distance would be 3 ft and 95%.
Post by: wirecounter on September 11, 2022, 07:58:08 PM
Post by: zippz on September 12, 2022, 08:53:59 AM
I fail to understand why this part of the test is even needed. I certainly understand some competency in shooting with the weak hand, but to test someone and specify no time constraints, it doesn't make sense.
It's not like the perpetrator is gonna say, "No worries, Bro, take your time."
I mean, in a way it's good for the CCW candidate that there are no time constraints for the weak hand while undergoing the test but I argue that this is irrelevant and should be eliminated.
Many CCW tests do not have time limits for several reasons. To allow the elderly and those with disabilities to pass. Allow for things like derringers to reload during the string. Governments view is ensure the CCW holder doesn't miss the target and hit bystanders and not if the person can defend themself.
For training, time limits and speed are a good thing.
Post by: zippz on September 12, 2022, 08:58:44 AM
for those on here that are NRA instructors - for the proposed amendment 15-20 2(B) - requiring the instructor to have an active attorney conduct the law portion of the written exam. Is this something common or happens in other states? I'm assuming the cost of hiring a lawyer will be passed down to the applicants, again increasing the cost for us to exercise our rights in addition to the additional costs of signing up for membership at private gun clubs and associated costs with that to practice for the shooting qualification. trying to prepare my written testimony as there are a lot of great points of view on this thread. mahalo in advance
Some other states have this requirement, and NRA CCW policy requires a LEO or attorney to teach the law portion as part of the CCW class. Of course being an attorney or LEO doesn't mean their necessarily qualified to teach self-defense law.
If this is implemented, my solution was to have one attorney teach multiple classes at the same time through zoom. The instructors would tune into zoom at a certain time and get the class from the attorney. That way you could teach 100 students at the same time at an affordable cost.
Post by: zippz on September 12, 2022, 09:00:23 AM
Add in anyone who's unable to use their other hand due to an injury or deformity. Like Flapp said, it's a way for them to add failure in.
They would have to allow for accomodations due to Americans with Disabilities Act. Most likely have them shoot with the same hand again.
Post by: zippz on September 12, 2022, 09:07:57 AM
No body has an answer ?
[/quote
The supplemental is only for Kauai and Hawaii county, so Honolulu would go by the test in the policy if implemented. However since Kauai copied the Hawaii County's policy, I wonder if it was the AG's guidance and HPD would swap to the same policy and test on October 4th.
HPD might allow the instructor to select the target. If not then my guess on the target used is the same one HPD uses which uses 5 point federal silhouette qual target. Though it's not a certified NRA target. Likely a mistake.
(https://d16ztny0u4c50x.cloudfront.net/images/ltr-iiflc_l.jpg)
Post by: Rocky on September 12, 2022, 11:07:13 AM
No body has an answer ?
Thanks Zipp
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 12, 2022, 11:10:03 AM
Thanks Zipp
Not all of my students are avid 2aHawaii followers so today I emailed ALL of my past NRA Basic Pistol students and Utah CFP students the HPD Chief rules, Testimony link and Hearing time/date/location.
Those submitting testimony in person or submitted written go to front of line for CCW test.
I thought we went over this and you posted the water bottle image cause I asked about KHSC not allowing human targets.
Post by: Rocky on September 12, 2022, 11:20:29 AM
I thought we went over this and you posted the water bottle image cause I asked about KHSC not allowing human targets.Zipps said
"HPD might allow the instructor to select the target. If not then my guess on the target used is the same one HPD uses which uses 5 point federal silhouette qual target. Though it's not a certified NRA target.
So i n my eyes, question is still not answered.
Anybody confirm what a "Type II" holster is ?
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 12, 2022, 11:34:02 AM
Zipps said
"HPD might allow the instructor to select the target. If not then my guess on the target used is the same one HPD uses which uses 5 point federal silhouette qual target. Though it's not a certified NRA target. Likely a mistake.
So i n my eyes, question is still not answered.
Anybody confirm what a "Type II" holster is ?
Or is that "Likely a mistake" also ? :crazy:
Thanks for clarifying. I thought the image of a bottle was funny too.
Post by: 6716J on September 12, 2022, 01:53:18 PM
Dave @SDStactical he's a BI guy in Cali
CibJ-0MtM9y/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
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Post by: ren on September 12, 2022, 02:52:43 PM
There have been more than 790 crime incidents reported to Honolulu Police within the past seven days.
Most of the crime reports have been on larceny around the island of Oahu. Just within the first week of Sept. there were close to 300 reports of larceny.
Post by: stangzilla on September 12, 2022, 03:25:49 PM
Post by: Eo12 on September 12, 2022, 04:33:07 PM
If anybody interested in seeing the Hawaii County course of fire being run....
Dave @SDStactical he's a BI guy in CaliCibJ-0MtM9y/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
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That guys a pro shooter and still missed 2 for time. Regular citizens aren’t gonna pass along with 99% of police either.
Post by: ren on September 12, 2022, 05:38:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZDIitWz8Go
waycist
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 12, 2022, 08:28:54 PM
That guys a pro shooter and still missed 2 for time. Regular citizens aren’t gonna pass along with 99% of police either.
And the sad and most infuriating part of this whole BS is that the SCOTUS decision was based on REGULAR CITIZEN'S 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS BEING VIOLATED
Post by: Itsshowtime808 on September 13, 2022, 01:08:09 AM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/07/31/police-arrest-suspect-accused-beating-elderly-man-apparent-road-rage-attack-laie/
No charges filed in road rage attack caught on camera.
No consequences = more crime
Would charges be filed if there was video of the 70yo successfully defending himself with a ccw?
Hopefully Laie is a small community and goin get some karma for the guy
if was my grandpa, guarantee that guy going get some "tax returns" if you know what I mean....
Post by: groveler on September 13, 2022, 07:48:08 AM
I was preparing a police commission complaint when I realized the bastard that
rejected my request was retiring.
I submitted a letter to the comission recommending that in their upcoming
search for a new police chief, they only accept 2A friendly cops that uphold
SCOTUS rulings, rather than the scum we here have been stuck with that think
our rights are at their discretion.
BI police comission number 22-08.
It is on their agenda for the Oct 21 0900 meeting.
We seem to be impotent to deal with bad cops, maybe we can hire good ones
to start with.
:popcorn:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 13, 2022, 08:58:54 AM
New Maui chief is from Vegas and is also cleaning house. Many of their older PD retired shortly after he came on board. Which is 1 reason why Maui has a shortage.
Maybe Maui chief no like get involved in a lawsuit for delaying/denying CCW's or actually reads/understands the SCOTUS ruling and Constitution. This is a shock to me because their city counsel is very anti 2a by the way they were hosting their hearing on allowing tasers. It wasn't until a lawsuit was filed that they had their hearing and they stated "IDK why this lawsuit is filed, we were going to make a ruling on it soon anyways". Sure they were. It was only like 3 months after the law took effect and like 10 months after Ige signed the bill into law. Then 2 weeks after the lawsuit was filed, they magically had their hearing on tasers.
Post by: 6716J on September 13, 2022, 11:23:48 AM
Maui has issued 9 CCW's so far. 1 is LEO retired cause Star Protection Agency was dissolved. So the sole company to administer the LEOSA exam is gone so no retired LEO can get their LEOSA permit. 6 are not former LEO. Guess now retired LEO's might care what us regular folk have to go thru.
New Maui chief is from Vegas and is also cleaning house. Many of their older PD retired shortly after he came on board. Which is 1 reason why Maui has a shortage.
Maybe Maui chief no like get involved in a lawsuit for delaying/denying CCW's or actually reads/understands the SCOTUS ruling and Constitution. This is a shock to me because their city counsel is very anti 2a by the way they were hosting their hearing on allowing tasers. It wasn't until a lawsuit was filed that they had their hearing and they stated "IDK why this lawsuit is filed, we were going to make a ruling on it soon anyways". Sure they were. It was only like 3 months after the law took effect and like 10 months after Ige signed the bill into law. Then 2 weeks after the lawsuit was filed, they magically had their hearing on tasers.
They're doing the gimme right now to show that "sure we're issuing".... But.... Maybe more like they know the legislature is going to pull out all the stops to make the process burdensome and unachievable in the initial bills. Then "miraculously" in a show to appease the masses they will pull most of the crap, but still make it hard to get and make most places sensitive and a no carry zone (punishable of course) unless it is posted that guns are ok in that establishment. And since most people don't really care they won't follow the proceedings and then won't put up pro-2A signage. Thus... we fucked.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 13, 2022, 11:32:07 AM
They're doing the gimme right now to show that "sure we're issuing".... But.... Maybe more like they know the legislature is going to pull out all the stops to make the process burdensome and unachievable in the initial bills. Then "miraculously" in a show to appease the masses they will pull most of the crap, but still make it hard to get and make most places sensitive and a no carry zone (punishable of course) unless it is posted that guns are ok in that establishment. And since most people don't really care they won't follow the proceedings and then won't put up pro-2A signage. Thus... we fucked.
If the signage thing happens, then I plan on going door to door and speak to the businesses. But more on this later if it happens. Got more stuff to focus on right now.
Post by: Rocky on September 14, 2022, 09:23:49 AM
:shaka:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 14, 2022, 09:28:39 AM
Was/is/am writing testimony for this and it's getting kinda "long" (a.k.a. TMTR).
I know if they see this big ol'e letter they wont read it completely.
Thinking of breaking it up into several letters of testimony.
Not only will it be a shorter read, but it will produce more in "volume" of letters received. :thumbsup:
Am I restricted to only 1 submission of testimony ?
:shaka:
I would say when submitting testimony, make it so the reader wants to read it. Write stuff to grab their attention like personal XP. If people just put "the 2a says this..." or "the constitution violation", then it just gets skimmed over. I mean you can add those, but don't solely base your testimony on that.
There is nothing that says you cannot submit more than 1. But again, if it's the same format, they may see the name and just skip over it or wrost, it gets ID"s as spam due to multiple submission email address. IMO I would do 1 testimony submission, even though it's long. Use a bigger font and bullet/number marks to show different sections, basically make the testimony also friendly to the eyes. Not just 1 huge paragraph with small size 10 font.
ZIpps even included pics with some of his testimony (Taser testimony).
Post by: groveler on September 14, 2022, 04:14:40 PM
Was/is/am writing testimony for this and it's getting kinda "long" (a.k.a. TMTR).I would shorten it to this;
I know if they see this big ol'e letter they wont read it completely.
Thinking of breaking it up into several letters of testimony.
Not only will it be a shorter read, but it will produce more in "volume" of letters received. :thumbsup:
Am I restricted to only 1 submission of testimony ?
:shaka:
I refer to HRS 134-9, which the US SCOTUS has deemed unconstitutional.
I should not have to justify why I can exercise a right to anybody. The SCOTUS
agrees with me.
There is no such thing as “reasonable” restraints on rights.
There is however a pleathora of laws concerning what occurs if your exercise of your
rights hurts others. That is the balance we agree to. That is commonly called civilization.
Not a single law you pass will prevent a harm to somebody, not a one.
By definition criminals don't obey laws.
I suggest funding gun safety and skill courses, public shooting ranges, and losing the Us V Them
attitude would go very far in bang for your buck.
Until you repeal the 2A every time a Democrat gets elected, guns sales are going to go up in volume,
best deal with that, it is your reality.
:rofl:
Post by: stangzilla on September 16, 2022, 07:31:49 AM
was from HNN report on the graduating class of HPD last night
hopefully we use the same target. doesn't look too difficult to hit out to 15 yds
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52362354570_a9e8a17a62_c.jpg)
Post by: robtmc on September 16, 2022, 08:38:30 AM
The Horror! The Horror!
Show up with one of those at KHSC, they are HPD approved after all.
Post by: WTF?Shane on September 16, 2022, 09:14:13 AM
Human silhouettes!
The Horror! The Horror!
Show up with one of those at KHSC, they are HPD approved after all.
HPD and C&C Honolulu are separate entities.
Post by: aieahound on September 16, 2022, 10:49:42 AM
Post by: Rocky on September 16, 2022, 11:03:56 AM
got this pic of the target that HPD usesLaw Enforcement Firearms Qualification
was from HNN report on the graduating class of HPD last night
hopefully we use the same target. doesn't look too difficult to hit out to 15 yds
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52362354570_a9e8a17a62_c.jpg)
State Rounds Target Min (yrd) Max (yrd) Passing %
Hawaii 50 B-21 3 15 100% :o :rofl:
Post by: punaperson on September 16, 2022, 11:18:37 AM
They (HPD - Hawaii county) had gone past the 10 working day maximum to send a response, so I wrote and told them unless I got a response within 24 hours I would be filing a complaint with the UIPA office.
Here was my UIPA request:
This is an official UIPA request.
Please provide documents detailing the full and complete firearms proficiency test specifics, including scoring requirements, frequency, etc., for both uniformed officers carrying unconcealed and plain clothes officers carrying concealed.
Here is their response:
"Agency must consult with another person to determine whether the record is exempt from disclosure under Chapter 92F, HRS."
Bullsh*t. Bullsh*t, And more bullsh*t. It'll never end.
Oh, and Maui PD responded to my UIPA request for all information regarding the issuance of that first CCW license, EXCEPT, I MADE CLEAR, I AM NOT SEEKING ANY INFORMATION THAT COULD LEAD TO THE IDENTITY OF THE LICENSEE.
Here's the actual request:
This is an official UIPA request.
Please provide me with all documents, electronic or paper, related to the application, consideration, evaluation and granting of a carry license by Maui Police Department (MPD) as recently reported by KHON news outlet.
https://www.khon2.com/local-news/maui-issues-first-concealed-carry-permit?utm_source=khon_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link
PLEASE NOTE: I AM NOT SEEKING THE IDENTITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL GRANTED THE LICENSE NOR ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION THAT MIGHT LEAD TO THE IDENTITY OF SAID LICENSEE. THE NAME, ADDRESS, ETC. OF THE APPLICANT MAY BE REDACTED.
Their response:
"Records requested. HRS 92F-13; HRS 92F-14; Hawaii State Constitution; HRS 134-3 Government records which, if disclosed, would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy; Government records which, pursuant to state or federal law including an order of any state or federal court, are protected from disclosure.
Bullsh*t. Bullsh*t. And more bullsh*t.
Post by: nickelzismoney on September 17, 2022, 01:55:14 PM
Post by: robtmc on September 17, 2022, 02:17:50 PM
HPD and C&C Honolulu are separate entities.Duh, that was not the point at all.
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 17, 2022, 02:44:28 PM
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Post by: hvybarrels on September 20, 2022, 12:27:38 AM
https://www.civilbeat.org/beat/hpd-chief-expects-to-issue-first-concealed-carry-gun-permits-in-october/
Post by: Heavies on September 20, 2022, 06:05:33 AM
The Chef is saying October now, which means the hearing is probably just for show and the rules have already been decided
https://www.civilbeat.org/beat/hpd-chief-expects-to-issue-first-concealed-carry-gun-permits-in-october/
Going to be difficult for those in a lower income tier. Kokohead is closed for probably the end of the year, and one would have to spend big bucks to train and execute testing at one of the two indoor ranges.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 20, 2022, 06:25:42 AM
My conspiracy theory sickness sees this as an accomplishment of two things:
1) It misleadingly shows the public that he is complying with the SCOTUS decision by starting to
issue permits.
2) It restricts the public's ability to get permits due to very few avenues available to get the live fire
portion done.
The public range is closed and the few (2?) indoor ranges is cost prohibitive for most regular folks
not to mention these ranges are small with not many lanes available, creating a backlog and
demand.
I'm pretty sure the state of Hawaii is very happy with this current restrictive set of rules to acquire a permit and the limited avenues to even try to get a live fire qualification test.
My conspiracy theory: All part of "the plan".
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 20, 2022, 09:15:34 AM
Wouldn't be surprised the Chief issues permits to inner circle individuals that got the live fire portion taken care of by means that 99% of the rest of us do not have access to.
My conspiracy theory sickness sees this as an accomplishment of two things:
1) It misleadingly shows the public that he is complying with the SCOTUS decision by starting to
issue permits.
2) It restricts the public's ability to get permits due to very few avenues available to get the live fire
portion done.
The public range is closed and the few (2?) indoor ranges is cost prohibitive for most regular folks
not to mention these ranges are small with not many lanes available, creating a backlog and
demand.
I'm pretty sure the state of Hawaii is very happy with this current restrictive set of rules to acquire a permit and the limited avenues to even try to get a live fire qualification test.
My conspiracy theory: All part of "the plan".
I'm sure these indoors will also charge the NRA instructor being there who's certifying your qual as well. Or totally deny them and use their own inhouse ones and charge $350 for a "class".
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 20, 2022, 10:12:00 AM
Post by: drck1000 on September 20, 2022, 10:25:46 AM
I was reading the proposed rules more and it actually is better. The OG one which has a line struck thru it shows that the test mimics the armored car test. This means 25 yards is added in. The revision shows much less than that. And the OG one says HPD must administer the exam. The revision states that the instructor must be certified by the State of Hawaii or HPD, which means private instructors are allowed.Certified instructors? By State of Hawaii and HPD. Bruh :shake:
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 20, 2022, 12:04:42 PM
I'm sure these indoors will also charge the NRA instructor being there who's certifying your qual as well. Or totally deny them and use their own inhouse ones and charge $350 for a "class".
Wow! That's quite an expense and that's just for the live fire qualification part. Then there is the "requirement" to purchase an active retention type/level 2 holster. And the cost of the permit itself which according to HPD rules require a separate permit for each gun to be carried.
Then the rule of permit only good for one year. It seems a potential CCW permit holder's life will be centered around constantly submitting documents (redundant ones, lol!) and taking classes and tests just to exercise 2a rights in Hawaii.
These costs itself discriminate against low income and fixed income people. Which is unconstitutional if these factors become the main reason they won't be able to carry.
The State of New Hampshire has roughly the same amount of people as Hawaii. New Hampshire is a constitutional carry state and is rated number 2 as having the lowest crime rate in the nation.
By the way, these things I mentioned are some points I included in my written testimony, among some other things. But I really focused on low-income and fixed income people and how they will be impacted by these "rules". I also made a correlation that many seniors fall into this demographic and I emphasized that seniors are the main target of criminals.
I am proof-reading my testimony and checking it for clarity and context and plan to submit it tomorrow.
Post by: Heavies on September 20, 2022, 01:48:10 PM
Post by: 96707 on September 21, 2022, 07:04:24 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 21, 2022, 09:15:09 AM
Then the exam/class needs to take place because you cannot use the HI handgun safety class since more is required as stated in the chiefs rules. Then the shooting portion has to take place and we all know KHSC is closed. So to schedule an indoor with permission will have to take place. And then all submitted to HPD, assuming the existing CCW app is still valid and no new form is needed or needs to be redone.
We have seen how long FFL's wishing to be approved to sell Tasers took. I'm sure the instructors will be approved within a few days of 10/4.
Logan is lying for the 2nd time about when he plans to approve CCWs. He is blowing more smoke up peoples asses so they don't get too upset at the delays.
Lets say for arguments sake he will just sign off on the CCW's as is and nothing further is needed despite it being in the new rules. This means he could have signed them back in July. This is what corruption looks like.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 21, 2022, 09:33:37 AM
Hard to believe that the CCW program in Hawaii will be fair, honest, and non-discriminatory. And most importantly un-biased to personal opinion.
HNN also reported that Logan plans to issue permits in October. Maybe to his friends, family and mommy but in my opinion the common citizen will be waiting a long, long time.
Post by: stangzilla on September 21, 2022, 10:33:53 AM
they've had the process for CCW for many years, but just did not hand out any permits bc they never planned on giving any out
I applied years ago and when I asked to apply for CCW the officer behind the widow told me, "what you going apply for? you only going get denied." so all the cops know that they don't issue any CCW to civilians in Hawaii. which is totally unconstitutional
Police chief Logan and all the gun hating politicians need to follow the law and the rulings of the courts, and not follow their own political agenda.
that's what they are sworn to do
but we all know better, that they are self serving BS artists
Post by: MarvintheMartian on September 21, 2022, 11:23:23 AM
Also, does the Hawaii County (and any other county) firearms qualification test require an emergency reload? The video showed an emergency reload during the 3rd course of fire after 15 shots were fired. What about the 10-round magazine limit or if someone is using a 5-shot revolver?
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 21, 2022, 11:41:00 AM
Is each county’s CCW application criteria and firearms qualification test identical to each other? If not, why not? I would think that having dissimilar standards would open the counties and possibly the state to another drawn-out lawsuit (then again maybe that’s what they want).
Also, does the Hawaii County (and any other county) firearms qualification test require an emergency reload? The video showed an emergency reload during the 3rd course of fire after 15 shots were fired. What about the 10-round magazine limit or if someone is using a 5-shot revolver?
Each county is slightly diff. Kauai and BI are similar. Maui is diff and Oahu looks to be diff. Logan did say on radio that he got together with all the chiefs to make sure they are on the same page. Apparently not. Esp since Maui has already issued 9 permits as of 2 weeks ago.
Other counties didn't have a hearing to give input to their rules. So make sure you write and if can, show up for Oahu's one.
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 21, 2022, 04:36:17 PM
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Post by: changemyoil66 on September 21, 2022, 05:32:54 PM
So, what is the list of requirements he came up with or is it more of a moving tatget?Its on the rules. Go pass the security/armored car type info.
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Post by: aletheuo137 on September 21, 2022, 06:16:59 PM
Its on the rules. Go pass the security/armored car type info.Do I get my get out of jail card if I pass go? It seems like they are expanding it or keep adding to it!
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Post by: zippz on September 21, 2022, 07:05:17 PM
https://youtu.be/b26VEvf1Rqs
Good shooting. Now can he get his grandmother to pass the test?
Post by: groveler on September 21, 2022, 07:12:19 PM
Each county is slightly diff. Kauai and BI are similar. Maui is diff and Oahu looks to be diff. Logan did say on radio that he got together with all the chiefs to make sure they are on the same page. Apparently not. Esp since Maui has already issued 9 permits as of 2 weeks ago."Other counties didn't have a hearing to give input to their rules. So make sure you write and if can, show up for Oahu's one."
Other counties didn't have a hearing to give input to their rules. So make sure you write and if can, show up for Oahu's one.
The BI don't need no stinking hearings, the Democrats already know what is best for you.
My only comment would be,
" Since when do I have to justify to anybody my natural born rights?"
:wtf:
Post by: Heavies on September 22, 2022, 05:47:51 AM
Good shooting. Now can he get his grandmother to pass the test?
That is exactly what I was thinking. Looking at the comments, seems the guy supports the somewhat strict test. I’m all for proficiency and believe responsible people will practice and get good. However, all that is NOT in the 2A
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 22, 2022, 06:03:25 AM
I believe this is more important. Just as a law-abiding citizen will make the commitment to responsible and safe gun ownership, this same citizen will make the commitment to be a responsible CCW holder through classes and training.
LE and the asshat politicians just need to distinguish us from the bad guys. They either cannot or don't want to. I tend to believe the latter.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2022, 08:43:37 AM
That is exactly what I was thinking. Looking at the comments, seems the guy supports the somewhat strict test. I’m all for proficiency and believe responsible people will practice and get good. However, all that is NOT in the 2A
IDK if people know who he is, but he recently moved out of HI. He does stippling as a business and I think some cerakote. I'm going to assume he moved away due to HI's problems and 2a violations being one of them.
Post by: zippz on September 22, 2022, 01:13:29 PM
Each county is slightly diff. Kauai and BI are similar. Maui is diff and Oahu looks to be diff. Logan did say on radio that he got together with all the chiefs to make sure they are on the same page. Apparently not. Esp since Maui has already issued 9 permits as of 2 weeks ago.
If the BI and Kauai policies were given by the AG, then it's possible Logan already decided he's going with the same policy. Good in a way that it gets rid of a lot of the HPD crap, but the shooting test is difficult for most people.
For someone taking a CCW class with a little extra practice, I think less than 25% could pass the test. There's some people, elderly and disabled, and some setups like airweight revolvers, that can't pass the test at all.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2022, 01:27:42 PM
If the BI and Kauai policies were given by the AG, then it's possible Logan already decided he's going with the same policy. Good in a way that it gets rid of a lot of the HPD crap, but the shooting test is difficult for most people.
I'm referring specifically to the shooting qual, Oahu's one in the Chiefs rules is much different from BI/Kauai. Oahu's one is do-able with minimal practice. BI/Kauai would be much harder, even with moderate practice.
So there is no way "they're all on the same page" like Logan stated since the un-passible qual is a huge part of the process.
Post by: MarvintheMartian on September 22, 2022, 06:08:55 PM
NEVADA CONCEALED HANDGUN TRAINING STANDARDS
Revised October 1, 2013 by the NVSCA
Nevada CCW Firearms Qualification
A total of 30 rounds for 6 shot or larger capacity and 25 rounds for 5 shot capacity must be fired. Firearms with less than a 5 shot capacity will have to be reloaded at each stage to comply with the 5 shot capacity standards. A minimum score of 70% is required to pass, and shall be indicated on the certificate as “Pass/Fail” only. A humanoid style target such as the B27, B21 or FBI Q shall be used.
6 Shot Capacity Course
3 yards / 6 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
5 yards / 12 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
7 yards / 12 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
5 Shot Capacity Course
3 yards / 5 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
5 yards / 10 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
7 yards / 10 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
The Nevada Sheriffs and Chiefs Association (NVSCA) establishes the minimum training standards required for the issue and renewal of carry concealed handgun permits (CCW) and the minimum standards required to become an instructor for concealed handgun permits
Authority for the NVSCA to establish these standards is provided in Nevada Revised Statute 202.3657
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/3976e12a-da21-4fa4-b94b-5f48dff7a7b7/downloads/1cgsne841_444906.pdf?ver=1626717066502
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 22, 2022, 06:54:43 PM
Not that the counties or the state will take this into consideration, but here is the firearm qualification standards for Nevada:Per my NV ccw instructor, its very difficult to fail. Mrs. Cmo scored like 98%. This was b4 she corrected her flinch.
NEVADA CONCEALED HANDGUN TRAINING STANDARDS
Revised October 1, 2013 by the NVSCA
Nevada CCW Firearms Qualification
A total of 30 rounds for 6 shot or larger capacity and 25 rounds for 5 shot capacity must be fired. Firearms with less than a 5 shot capacity will have to be reloaded at each stage to comply with the 5 shot capacity standards. A minimum score of 70% is required to pass, and shall be indicated on the certificate as “Pass/Fail” only. A humanoid style target such as the B27, B21 or FBI Q shall be used.
6 Shot Capacity Course
3 yards / 6 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
5 yards / 12 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
7 yards / 12 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
5 Shot Capacity Course
3 yards / 5 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
5 yards / 10 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
7 yards / 10 rounds / No time limit / Freestyle stance and grip
The Nevada Sheriffs and Chiefs Association (NVSCA) establishes the minimum training standards required for the issue and renewal of carry concealed handgun permits (CCW) and the minimum standards required to become an instructor for concealed handgun permits
Authority for the NVSCA to establish these standards is provided in Nevada Revised Statute 202.3657
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/3976e12a-da21-4fa4-b94b-5f48dff7a7b7/downloads/1cgsne841_444906.pdf?ver=1626717066502
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Post by: Cain57 on September 22, 2022, 07:20:47 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 23, 2022, 08:34:39 AM
Does anybody know the Maui course of fire?
Try check the MPD website. If it's not on there, call MAGS.
Post by: drck1000 on September 23, 2022, 08:58:52 AM
That is exactly what I was thinking. Looking at the comments, seems the guy supports the somewhat strict test. I’m all for proficiency and believe responsible people will practice and get good. However, all that is NOT in the 2AExactly. Was discussing the standards and the potential/proposed CCW requirements with a friend who is an NRA Instructor (and TO) for NRA courses that could meet the standards. Who am I do determine someone's fitness or justification for defending themselves? More "pure 2a" perspective. That said, I know more than a few yahoos who I wouldn't trust a 'tato gun. Some are posting on IG as "training experts", and are down right :shake:
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 23, 2022, 09:09:16 AM
I believe Logan is under pressure from the commission, politicians, and his own personal beliefs.
Post by: nickelzismoney on September 23, 2022, 01:26:26 PM
Constitutional carry if you really believe in 2nd amendment.
I believe Logan is under pressure from the commission, politicians, and his own personal beliefs.
Well he bette eve a man and take his oath seriously. Or else one day when Hawaii is free finally, clowns like him will never see public office again
Post by: zippz on September 23, 2022, 01:56:52 PM
Does anybody know the Maui course of fire?There is no set cof.
I know the chief will accept the NRA pistol instructor test, 16 out of 20 shots in a 6" group on the NRA target at 15 yards It's a fairly difficult test for most.
I'm going to apply with something easier to see what he'll accept. Maybe the FBI test, which most people could pass. Or NRA CCW test which is easier than that.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 23, 2022, 02:49:10 PM
Not too many options for most of us here on Oahu to practice.
Don't know where the Big island guys are gonna practice. But I guess there's a lot of "open" spaces to set up a makeshift range?
Maui has one public range I believe. Don't know about Kaui.
There is no set cof.
I know the chief will accept the NRA pistol instructor test, 16 out of 20 shots in a 6" group on the NRA target. It's a fairly difficult test for most.
I'm going to apply with something easier to see what he'll accept. Maybe the FBI test, which most people could pass. Or NRA CCW test which is easier than that.
I don't think I can pass the 16 out of 20 shots in a 6" group on an NRA target.
Post by: Cain57 on September 23, 2022, 03:19:55 PM
There is no set cof.
I know the chief will accept the NRA pistol instructor test, 16 out of 20 shots in a 6" group on the NRA target at 15 yards It's a fairly difficult test for most.
I'm going to apply with something easier to see what he'll accept. Maybe the FBI test, which most people could pass. Or NRA CCW test which is easier than that.
Pretty crazy that each county is so different with the cof. I’m on Oahu but after seeing the one for big island I was a little concerned with one of the strings. They gotta figure this stuff out already.
Post by: RSN172 on September 24, 2022, 09:04:49 AM
Post by: robtmc on September 24, 2022, 10:31:03 AM
Don't know where the Big island guys are gonna practice. But I guess there's a lot of "open" spaces to set up a makeshift range?No, not without exposing your self to all sorts of legal liability. Some have acreage, most do not.
Huge amounts of empty land, only two small areas within hunting reserves where you can shoot.
Post by: RSN172 on September 24, 2022, 12:47:25 PM
No, not without exposing your self to all sorts of legal liability. Some have acreage, most do not.I shoot all the time in my backyard, sometimes from my 2nd story deck which overlook the pig killing field. I live in rural Puna, where people around me don't care if someone is shooting.
Huge amounts of empty land, only two small areas within hunting reserves where you can shoot.
Post by: ren on September 25, 2022, 08:05:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WgxUoky4kg&t=14s
Post by: pacwire on September 25, 2022, 12:41:15 PM
If we are the "State of Hawaii" and the State AG was the "overseer" of the CCW etc, why is EACH county allowed to have different Rules? Don't we have one Driver's License Statewide?
I curious to hear from one of the "Few" in Maui County that have been issued their CCW.....
Aloha!
:shaka:
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 25, 2022, 12:53:22 PM
Dumb Question:
If we are the "State of Hawaii" and the State AG was the "overseer" of the CCW etc, why is EACH county allowed to have different Rules? Don't we have one Driver's License Statewide?
I curious to hear from one of the "Few" in Maui County that have been issued their CCW.....
Aloha!
:shaka:
Not a dumb question at all. It is the most intelligent question amongst the vast ocean of retarded-ness that the counties have fielded to this point so far.
We have one Driver's License Statewide, yet a CCW permit granted in one county is not valid in another county. (Last I understood, even that might have changed).
But if it hasn't and I'd bet it didn't, how stupid is that? :rofl:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 25, 2022, 01:03:03 PM
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Post by: changemyoil66 on September 29, 2022, 08:47:00 AM
1) HPD wants to use FBI's NICS to do background checks for CCW. But this is not what the system is for, it's for gun sales only. Which is why the FBI denied HPD earlier this year when they tried to use it to check the background of Taser sellers. FBI said no and the Taser selling apps sat on HPD's desk until a UIPA was requested to the AG. Then and only then HPD said what's up. So not only would this be illegal for HPD to do, the FBI will tell them no. So guess what, CCW apps will sit on HPD's desk until HIFICO request a UIPA/FOIA. Will HPD amend the chiefs rules, probably not because HI passed the Taser law knowing this. Then ignored a judges orders to have in person reg for out of state residents bringing firearms into HI. So there's that.
2) Big Island's waiver sucks, don't sign it. There is a clause in there where you give up your attorney client privilege, right to sue and stuff like that. This waiver is needed so BI can issue CCW. And there's no expiration date, so once you sign it, they can use it FOREVER. Kauai's waiver removed this bad paragraph. I knew the waiver was bad, but not this bad.
There might be more new stuff, but I can't remember. So someone else can post if they have more info.
*Edit
Present was DC Project and HRA as guest speakers.
Post by: RSN172 on September 29, 2022, 09:23:58 AM
I will resign from this forum when I do, since no one here does anything illegal.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 29, 2022, 10:38:51 AM
Even if one is not well-versed in legalese, all it takes is average reading comprehension to realize how foolish one would be to sign it.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 29, 2022, 10:44:07 AM
Only one caveat:
You must really understand and embrace what Ainokea means.
It means Aye.....No......Kea. Period. And accept the consequences of actions. ;D :shaka:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 29, 2022, 11:34:16 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 29, 2022, 11:51:24 AM
Modified ban. Guns are default banned on private property, unless property owner consents. Which means the tenant cannot consent. No guns welcome sign is needed.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 29, 2022, 01:24:35 PM
Supreme court said this was illegal, moreover this would mean you have to be allowed to keep guns in cars as to not break the law. But storage of firearms in vehicles is prohibited...
The ability to keep guns on private property is different by state. In most, the landlord has the final say. If your landlord puts a "no firearms on the premises" clause in your rental lease agreement, you can be evicted for breaking the rules.
Most civil rights are protected against government violations, not private entities. No different than if your employer says "No guns at work."
Where you keep your guns after being informed of the rules is up to you & the law -- storage facility, relative's home, etc -- but what the courts have ruled on is, if your employer has a "No Guns" policy at work, they can't prohibit you from storing a gun in your car in their parking lot. That would effectively disarm you while commuting both ways, which they don't have a right to do, assuming you're allowed to legally own and carry while driving to work. Unless they operate an armory and accept the responsibility of checking in, securing and returning your firearm as you enter and leave work, they can't stop you from being armed while commuting.
Private rental properties have no such restrictions.
My concern would be, if you live in an apartment/rental home, why are you allowing anyone outside your inner circle to know you have guns? If you fly under the radar, nobody will know enough to complain about you -- just like concealed carry should be ..... concealed. Sure, they can try to evict you, but if you have a lease, that takes time. If you're on month-to-month, better keep your bags packed and your possessions easy to move! :thumbsup:
If you believe the Supreme Court gave an opinion that contradicts this information, please post the case and relevant quotes. :thumbsup: :shaka:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 29, 2022, 01:45:32 PM
The ability to keep guns on private property is different by state. In most, the landlord has the final say. If your landlord puts a "no firearms on the premises" clause in your rental lease agreement, you can be evicted for breaking the rules.
Most civil rights are protected against government violations, not private entities. No different than if your employer says "No guns at work."
Where you keep your guns after being informed of the rules is up to you & the law -- storage facility, relative's home, etc -- but what the courts have ruled on is, if your employer has a "No Guns" policy at work, they can't prohibit you from storing a gun in your car in their parking lot. That would effectively disarm you while commuting both ways, which they don't have a right to do, assuming you're allowed to legally own and carry while driving to work. Unless they operate an armory and accept the responsibility of checking in, securing and returning your firearm as you enter and leave work, they can't stop you from being armed while commuting.
Private rental properties have no such restrictions.
My concern would be, if you live in an apartment/rental home, why are you allowing anyone outside your inner circle to know you have guns? If you fly under the radar, nobody will know enough to complain about you -- just like concealed carry should be ..... concealed. Sure, they can try to evict you, but if you have a lease, that takes time. If you're on month-to-month, better keep your bags packed and your possessions easy to move! :thumbsup:
If you believe the Supreme Court gave an opinion that contradicts this information, please post the case and relevant quotes. :thumbsup: :shaka:
The huge difference is that the landlord finding a gun in the home or business is not illegal. Like you said, they can evict you. If city ordinance passes, then it would become illegal and you will be arrested and have to go to court. Basically the weight of the law is behind this one.
CCW holders won't advertise they have a gun. But can inadvertently be seen. Reminds me of a Vegas Costco CCW holder. He was AIWB and reached up to grab something. Costco worker saw and called 911. The guy has his "blue card" (CCW at the time). Costco employees never asked about it at all and he left when he was done shopping. Cops came and shot him saying he drew his gun in the parking lot. All video was amazingly not rolling of the security cams in the parking lot. No gun found on the ground or in his hand. All witnesses said they never saw him with a gun in his hand. When the EMT's showed up and put the dead guy in the ambulance, they do a SOP of checking the body. Guess what they found..his handgun holstered AIWB still. This is in the EMT report.
Then the police then say he was carrying another handgun, which at the time the "blue cards" are handgun specific. So it wasn't the gun that was still holstered. So they claimed it wasn't the gun he had the card for. No other guns found on scene. So they tried to call his brother to open his apartment so they can retrieve another gun. The cop who shot the guy got promoted to internal affairs after saying he saw a gun in his hand. Also Metro tried to label him as a drug abuser cause he was on a legal RX of Vicatin or something for military service related back pain. Even though his last conversation with his father the week prior was that he doesn't even take a full pill when he has pain, but 1/2 or 1/4 of a pill.
Investigation closed and no one reprimanded or punished. It was deemed a good shoot.
So back to if someone sees the firearm. HPD will be called and 1 doesn't have permission from the landlord. Besides HPD coming in all excited, you will get arrested is the best case scenario.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 29, 2022, 02:44:46 PM
Someone said long ago, "The Golden Rule is: Whoever Has the Most Gold Makes the Rules."
I see this as --> Wealth determines who gets into elected office. Those in office make the rules.
Everyone else can pound sand.
Post by: drck1000 on September 29, 2022, 02:48:14 PM
Yeah, rather than debate the interpretations of the ruling in court, the Hawaii rulers are intent to decide for themselves what the ruling meant. If the laws and ordinances they pass conflict, it's not like they can personally be held accountable -- at least not given the percentage of Democrat Sheeple here.It's not D or R. It's the have's and have nots. . .
Someone said long ago, "The Golden Rule is: Whoever Has the Most Gold Makes the Rules."
I see this as --> Wealth determines who gets into elected office. Those in office make the rules.
Everyone else can pound sand.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 29, 2022, 03:22:32 PM
It's not D or R. It's the have's and have nots. . .
You're gonna have to ask yourself if you wanna be on the inside, or on the outside looking in.
Post by: punaperson on October 09, 2022, 08:00:25 AM
Seriously? $450 to ask permission to exercise a funadmental Constitutionally-protected right?
smh. F*cking commies.
Edit: typo
Post by: ren on October 09, 2022, 08:08:34 AM
I have a friend who is "in the business" and thus spends considerable time at the Hilo Firearms Division filing paperwork. He said last week he witnessed three people receiving carry licenses. He gave me an ad from an instructor, and said that everyone is charging about the same amount: Basics of Pistol Shooting Course: $300, CCW Firearms Proficiency Test: $150.
Seriously? $450 to ask permission to exercise and funadmental Constitutionally-protected right?
smh. F*cking commies.
just like the City Dept of Permit and Planning....red envelopes
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 09, 2022, 08:20:15 AM
I have a friend who is "in the business" and thus spends considerable time at the Hilo Firearms Division filing paperwork. He said last week he witnessed three people receiving carry licenses. He gave me an ad from an instructor, and said that everyone is charging about the same amount: Basics of Pistol Shooting Course: $300, CCW Firearms Proficiency Test: $150.Those people signed their right to privacy away
Seriously? $450 to ask permission to exercise a funadmental Constitutionally-protected right?
smh. F*cking commies.
Edit: typo
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Post by: groveler on October 09, 2022, 08:34:52 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/orthodox-jews-sue-new-york-over-gun-law-banning-concealed-carry-in-houses-of-worship/ar-AA12KyHx?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=0957925166d14f0aafa647321dc83f9f
Too bad our Hawaii Democrats aren't as intelligent.
:wtf:
Post by: RSN172 on October 09, 2022, 09:03:48 AM
Those people signed their right to privacy awayPlus with all the restrictions on where you can legally carry, you may as well Ainokea carry. Either way you breaking the law.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
IMO, right now, the Hawaii CCW permit is a worthless piece of paper.
Post by: Rocky on October 09, 2022, 10:16:11 AM
Post by: groveler on October 09, 2022, 10:18:23 AM
Plus with all the restrictions on where you can legally carry, you may as well Ainokea carry. Either way you breaking the law."IMO, right now, the Hawaii CCW permit is a worthless piece of paper."
IMO, right now, the Hawaii CCW permit is a worthless piece of paper.
AGREED!
:grrr:
BTW it is only illegal if you get caught.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 09, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
Plus with all the restrictions on where you can legally carry, you may as well Ainokea carry. Either way you breaking the law.BI ordinance failed. A revised one is next week.
IMO, right now, the Hawaii CCW permit is a worthless piece of paper.
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Post by: changemyoil66 on October 09, 2022, 12:24:22 PM
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: groveler on October 09, 2022, 07:37:53 PM
BI ordinance failed. A revised one is next week.No way in hell BI people can comply with the
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non-lawfull or Constitutional regulations so
we are still non-issue.
Just a useless piece of paper.
Cops had better better be ready.
I went through BMT.
and lots of follow on training.
Aloha.
:grrr:
.
Post by: ren on October 17, 2022, 08:44:46 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on October 18, 2022, 12:04:43 AM
Post by: RSN172 on October 18, 2022, 06:02:38 AM
Anyone making leather or kydex holsters with Ainokea stamped on the side?
Anyone with a laser engraver can do it for you. Trophy shops and some ukulele makers have them.
You can also write it on yourself with an electric crafting pencil.
Post by: punaperson on October 18, 2022, 07:29:31 AM
Georgia's libertarian gubernatorial candidate, Shane Hazel, gets in on the action.
"Libertarians don't believe in any gun laws. We believe that you know how to best protect you and your property. And the biggest mass murderer in history is government…" pic.twitter.com/SBPng38DL6
— Townhall.com (@townhallcom) October 17, 2022
That's essentially what I wrote in my testimony: SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Pretty sure they are seriously considering that option... and now with the chief's rumored conversion, you know, like Tulsi...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 18, 2022, 09:15:08 AM
Post by: RSN172 on October 18, 2022, 09:19:52 AM
We are mid Oct and Chief said he plans on signing by end of Oct. No updates to the Chiefs rules yet either. 2nd time the Chief will lie.
Did you expect anything different?
Post by: pacwire on October 18, 2022, 01:06:38 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 18, 2022, 01:12:44 PM
so if the City is taking bribes to further expedite building permits....
Maybe this will circumvent the live fire qualification? :rofl:
Post by: punaperson on October 18, 2022, 01:17:09 PM
...No, it's a deadly serious sworn oath. What you don't seem to understand is that "no right is absolute".
I guess "swearing on the bible to uphold the constitution of the US" is a joke?
You can already bear arms for hunting and target practice and in your business or in your home from the bedroom to the kitchen. Isn't that enough? Don't blame the oathkeeping law enforcers fbecause there is a sliding scale for the right.
/sarc
Post by: Heavies on October 18, 2022, 01:42:00 PM
It’s election season. I’m sure they will politely blow you off.
But at least you can give them a very uneasy feeling, like they may not get re elected.
I did, and it seemed like that was the case
Post by: 96707 on October 21, 2022, 08:20:34 AM
The 311 App allows you to take photos of potholes, standing water, broken sidewalks, blocked side walks, over grown brush/trees, vehicle violations and general issues that impact public safety. All of us here are responsible citizens and should be contributing more to help the city achieve its safety goals. The city documents these issues and follows up with the processing of the requests via email.
Post by: groveler on October 21, 2022, 08:39:35 AM
I like know how anybody can submit a qualification live shoot test. Only ranges I know of besides LE and military are the two indoor ranges.Bribery
Maybe this will circumvent the live fire qualification? :rofl:
It would work in Guam.
Unfortunately corruption here in Hawaii. it is more who you know than how much it will cost.
:shaka:
Post by: RSN172 on October 21, 2022, 08:43:53 AM
Sign up for the City's 311 app. Report every unsafe thing you cmsee on city streets and sidewalks. We deserve to live in a safe city while we wait for the HPD to finish the bidding of the Mayor, Council and Legislature
They will probably block you after you make 10 complaints, figuring you are a troublemaker. Less than 1% of reported problems will even get a look-see. This is a feel good app.
Post by: 96707 on October 21, 2022, 09:07:06 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2022, 09:14:23 AM
Post by: rpoL98 on October 21, 2022, 03:30:53 PM
I am on their security list. I spoke to a staffer once and she mentioned my name sounded familiar. She let it slip she saw my name on the security list. She cut off right after "Oh, I know where I saw your name. It was on our securit......I'll pass your concern on to the senator/rep".wow, does that mean you're one step away from being politically red-flagged for wrong-think?
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 21, 2022, 04:20:28 PM
wow, does that mean you're one step away from being politically red-flagged for wrong-think?Politicians cannot use red flag law.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 21, 2022, 04:23:59 PM
Politicians cannot use red flag law.
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I bet they have staffers who know somebody who knows somebody ...
Post by: punaperson on October 22, 2022, 07:14:40 AM
I bet they have staffers who know somebody who knows somebody ...I'm not saying you don't have a right to your opinion. It would be nice, though, if the opinion was based less on emotion and unfounded smears.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 22, 2022, 12:57:20 PM
I bet they have staffers who know somebody who knows somebody ...
I'm not saying you don't have a right to your opinion. It would be nice, though, if the opinion was based less on emotion and unfounded smears.
#SarcasmIsHard
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 28, 2022, 06:30:24 AM
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Post by: QUIETShooter on October 28, 2022, 06:43:40 AM
So... is he is going to start issuing permits?!?!
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
In my opinion he, the commission, and the state of Hawaii is doing their darndest not to.
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 28, 2022, 07:23:00 AM
In my opinion he, the commission, and the state of Hawaii is doing their darndest not to.Not a man of his word. Two strikes!
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Post by: Rocky on October 28, 2022, 08:55:31 AM
So... is he is going to start issuing permits?!?!Don't be so sarcastic, of course he is. :thumbsup:
All ya gotta do is....
§15-21 Application procedures for License to Carry Firearm, concealed or unconcealed. (a) Every applicant shall have a mailing address in Hawaii other than a Post Office box and be 21 years of age or older, and shall submit:
(1) The completed Honolulu Police Department Application for License to Carry Concealed Firearm or License to Carry Unconcealed Firearm, including any and all forms designated by the Honolulu Police Department to implement Sections 134-7 and 134-9, Hawaii Revised Statutes, and these rules.
(2) A copy of the signed State of Hawaii Firearms Registration, registered in the applicant’s name, for the handgun to be carried by the applicant if the applicant receives a License.
(3) The completed and signed medical information waiver, including any forms required by the applicant’s health care provider for release of medical information.
(4) The completed and signed State of Hawaii, Adult Mental Health Division Authorization for Use or Disclosure of Protected Health Information form.
(5) The completed and signed State of Hawaii Permit to Acquire Firearms Application Questionnaire.
(6) Valid government-issued photo identification.
(7) Documentation that the applicant has completed a firearms training or safety course that satisfies the requirements of section 134-2(g)(4), as set forth in section 15-20(b).
(8) A notarized affidavit from the instructor of the firearm certification program ( which does not exist at this time) set forth in section 15-20(c), attesting to the following:
(A) The applicant’s legal name;
(B) The instructor’s name and contact information;
(C) The applicant’s score on the written examination; ( which does not exist at this time)
(D) The applicant’s score on the shooting proficiency test;
(E) The date and time the applicant completed the program;
(F) The location of the program;
(G) The firearm used by the applicant to complete the program; and
(H) The holster used by the applicant, which shall be Type 2 or above. ( which does not exist at this time)
(9) One United States passport-sized, front-facing photo of the applicant;
(10) If the applicant has lived outside of Hawaii for more than 60 days within the last five years, documentation as set forth in subsection (b).
(11) A non-refundable fee of $10.00, or, if higher, the maximum amount permitted by State law for the License and any background check or other processing fees.
(12) Any other forms prescribed by the Department of the Attorney General or the Honolulu Police Department required to complete the background check and mental health screening required by law. ( which does not exist at this time)
(b) Every applicant who lived outside of Hawaii for more than 60 days within the last five years shall provide mental health information as follows:
(1) Mental health records from the health department of every state, province, or equivalent governmental unit where the applicant lived for more than 60 days within the previous five years, to be sent directly to the Honolulu Police Department from the governmental entity. Applicants who, within the previous five years, were stationed outside the United States due to federal government
service shall have mental health records sent to the Honolulu Police Department from the relevant federal governmental entity, but need not obtain records from the foreign government; or
(2) Certification from a physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist, licensed to practice in Hawaii and completed no earlier than 90 days before submission of the
application, attesting to the applicant’s mental fitness to carry a firearm, provided that the physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist shall personally evaluate the applicant for no less than 45 minutes before so attesting.
(c) Every applicant shall certify that, when the firearm is carried on the applicant’s person, the firearm shall be carried using a Type 2 or higher holster. ( which does not exist at this time)
(d) This section shall not apply to Private Detectives, Detectives, Investigators, and Guards, who shall follow the procedures set forth in section 15-19. [Eff and comp ] (Auth: HRS § 134-9; RCH § 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS § 134-9)
§15-22 Initial review of application by Firearms Unit; background checks.
(a) An application is not deemed received by the Honolulu Police Department until the complete application, including all required forms ( which does not exist at this time) and information, is received by the Honolulu Police Department. The Firearms Unit shall not take further action on an incomplete application except as set forth in subsection (b). Incomplete applications shall be deemed to have been denied on
the 90th day following submission by the applicant, measured from the date of the latest submission by the applicant.
(b) Firearms Unit personnel shall review the application for completeness. If an application is incomplete, Firearms Unit personnel shall advise the applicant as to what information or items are missing, as follows:
(1) If the applicant is present, Firearms Unit personnel shall advise the applicant verbally. If the applicant provides the missing information and the application is deemed complete, Firearms Unit personnel shall proceed with processing the application. If the applicant does not provide the missing information upon being advised verbally by Firearms Unit personnel, Firearms Unit personnel shall document the verbal guidance given.
(2) If the applicant is not present, Firearms Unit personnel shall advise the applicant in writing.
(c) If the Firearms Unit deems the application to be complete, the Honolulu Police Department shall conduct the following background checks on the applicant:
(1) Local police involvements (current and archive records management systems).
(2) State of Hawaii – Electronic Bench Warrant (EBW) search.
(3) CJIS Hawaii query – for Hawaii arrest history and disposition information.
(4) National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) which includes:
(A) National Crime Information Center (NCIC) warrants.
(B) Interstate Identification Index (III) – a national index of criminal histories.
(C) NICS index – index of persons not eligible to receive firearms in the U.S.
(D) Immigration and Customs Enforcement databases – regarding whether the applicant is a citizen, a national, or a lawful permanent resident of the United States.
(E) A query of the State of Hawaii Adult Mental Health Divisions files for State of Hawaii mental health records.
(F) A query of Hawaii’s medical marijuana cardholder database to discern whether the applicant holds a medical marijuana permit (see U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, “Open letter to all federal firearms licensees,” Sept. 21, 2011).
(G) JIMS, eCourt Kokua, Ho‘ohiki, or other comparable Hawaii Judiciary databases, for State court orders and records.
(H) Any other databases required by law.
(5) Review of mental health records from other jurisdictions, or attestation from physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist, pursuant to section 15-21(b).
(d) More than one person may receive a License to carry a single firearm – such as when spouses share a firearm – provided that each person shall have a License for each firearm
to be carried.
(e) Unless the application materials demonstrate, clearly and on their face, that an applicant cannot meet the eligibility criteria set forth in these regulations, each applicant shall be
entitled to an interview with Firearms Unit personnel to present any additional information.
Upon request by the applicant, Firearms Unit personnel shall conduct the interview by telephone or by video conference, as chosen by the applicant; alternatively, Firearms Unit personnel may
conduct the interview in person upon the request of the applicant and at the discretion ofFirearms Unit personnel. [Eff and comp ] (Auth: HRS § 134-9; RCH
§ 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS § 134-9)
Ya get the point :grrr:
§15-23 Standards for issuance of License to Carry Concealed Firearm. The Chief
shall be guided by the following standards in determining whether to grant or deny an
application for a License:
(1) Pursuant to Section 134-9(b), Hawaii Revised Statutes, an applicant for a License
shall “[a]ppear to be a suitable person to be so licensed.” Being “a suitable
person” means that the applicant does not exhibit specific and articulable indicia
that would objectively indicate to a reasonable observer that the applicant poses a
heightened risk to public safety. The Chief may apply the following objective
factors when determining whether an applicant displays specific and articulable
indicia that the applicant poses a heightened risk to public safety such that the
applicant is not “a suitable person to be so licensed”:
(A) Whether the applicant has been involved in any incidents of alleged
domestic violence within the ten years preceding the application;
(B) Whether the applicant has been involved in any incidents of careless
handling, storage, or carrying of a firearm within the ten years preceding
the application;
(C) Whether the applicant has been involved in incidents of alcohol or drug
abuse, including but not limited to operating a vehicle under the influence
of an intoxicant, within the ten years preceding the application; or
(D) Whether the applicant has been involved in other violent conduct within
the ten years preceding the application.
(2) Pursuant to Sections 134-7 and 134-9(b), Hawaii Revised Statutes, an applicant
for a License shall “[n]ot have been adjudged insane or not appear to be mentally
deranged.” Being a person who does “not appear to be mentally deranged” means
that the applicant does not exhibit specific and articulable indicia that would
objectively indicate to a reasonable observer that the applicant is not capable of
being a suitable, responsible, and law-abiding user of firearms. Such specific and
articulable indicia may include suicidal ideations, homicidal ideations, or
potential dangerousness, including a violent animus towards one or more groups
based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, gender identity, gender
expression, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, or other characteristic,
such that a reasonable person would conclude that the applicant harbored an
intention to use a firearm in public to attack others rather than for self-defense.
The Chief may consider the information provided as part of the application, as
well as any other information available to the Honolulu Police Department or the
general public, in determining whether an applicant displays such specific and
articulable indicia. [Eff and comp ] (Auth: HRS § 134-9;
RCH § 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS § 134-9)
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 28, 2022, 08:56:23 AM
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 28, 2022, 09:09:57 AM
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 28, 2022, 09:20:56 AM
Don't be so sarcastic, of course he is. :thumbsup:
All ya gotta do is....
§15-21 Application procedures for License to Carry Firearm, concealed or unconcealed. (a) Every applicant shall have a mailing address in Hawaii other than a Post Office box and be 21 years of age or older, and shall submit:
(1) The completed Honolulu Police Department Application for License to Carry Concealed Firearm or License to Carry Unconcealed Firearm, including any and all forms designated by the Honolulu Police Department to implement Sections 134-7 and 134-9, Hawaii Revised Statutes, and these rules.
(2) A copy of the signed State of Hawaii Firearms Registration, registered in the applicant’s name, for the handgun to be carried by the applicant if the applicant receives a License.
(3) The completed and signed medical information waiver, including any forms required by the applicant’s health care provider for release of medical information.
(4) The completed and signed State of Hawaii, Adult Mental Health Division Authorization for Use or Disclosure of Protected Health Information form.
(5) The completed and signed State of Hawaii Permit to Acquire Firearms Application Questionnaire.
(6) Valid government-issued photo identification.
(7) Documentation that the applicant has completed a firearms training or safety course that satisfies the requirements of section 134-2(g)(4), as set forth in section 15-20(b).
(8) A notarized affidavit from the instructor of the firearm certification program ( which does not exist at this time) set forth in section 15-20(c), attesting to the following:
(A) The applicant’s legal name;
(B) The instructor’s name and contact information;
(C) The applicant’s score on the written examination; ( which does not exist at this time)
(D) The applicant’s score on the shooting proficiency test;
(E) The date and time the applicant completed the program;
(F) The location of the program;
(G) The firearm used by the applicant to complete the program; and
(H) The holster used by the applicant, which shall be Type 2 or above. ( which does not exist at this time)
(9) One United States passport-sized, front-facing photo of the applicant;
(10) If the applicant has lived outside of Hawaii for more than 60 days within the last five years, documentation as set forth in subsection (b).
(11) A non-refundable fee of $10.00, or, if higher, the maximum amount permitted by State law for the License and any background check or other processing fees.
(12) Any other forms prescribed by the Department of the Attorney General or the Honolulu Police Department required to complete the background check and mental health screening required by law. ( which does not exist at this time)
(b) Every applicant who lived outside of Hawaii for more than 60 days within the last five years shall provide mental health information as follows:
(1) Mental health records from the health department of every state, province, or equivalent governmental unit where the applicant lived for more than 60 days within the previous five years, to be sent directly to the Honolulu Police Department from the governmental entity. Applicants who, within the previous five years, were stationed outside the United States due to federal government
service shall have mental health records sent to the Honolulu Police Department from the relevant federal governmental entity, but need not obtain records from the foreign government; or
(2) Certification from a physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist, licensed to practice in Hawaii and completed no earlier than 90 days before submission of the
application, attesting to the applicant’s mental fitness to carry a firearm, provided that the physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist shall personally evaluate the applicant for no less than 45 minutes before so attesting.
(c) Every applicant shall certify that, when the firearm is carried on the applicant’s person, the firearm shall be carried using a Type 2 or higher holster. ( which does not exist at this time)
(d) This section shall not apply to Private Detectives, Detectives, Investigators, and Guards, who shall follow the procedures set forth in section 15-19. [Eff and comp ] (Auth: HRS § 134-9; RCH § 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS § 134-9)
§15-22 Initial review of application by Firearms Unit; background checks.
(a) An application is not deemed received by the Honolulu Police Department until the complete application, including all required forms ( which does not exist at this time) and information, is received by the Honolulu Police Department. The Firearms Unit shall not take further action on an incomplete application except as set forth in subsection (b). Incomplete applications shall be deemed to have been denied on
the 90th day following submission by the applicant, measured from the date of the latest submission by the applicant.
(b) Firearms Unit personnel shall review the application for completeness. If an application is incomplete, Firearms Unit personnel shall advise the applicant as to what information or items are missing, as follows:
(1) If the applicant is present, Firearms Unit personnel shall advise the applicant verbally. If the applicant provides the missing information and the application is deemed complete, Firearms Unit personnel shall proceed with processing the application. If the applicant does not provide the missing information upon being advised verbally by Firearms Unit personnel, Firearms Unit personnel shall document the verbal guidance given.
(2) If the applicant is not present, Firearms Unit personnel shall advise the applicant in writing.
(c) If the Firearms Unit deems the application to be complete, the Honolulu Police Department shall conduct the following background checks on the applicant:
(1) Local police involvements (current and archive records management systems).
(2) State of Hawaii – Electronic Bench Warrant (EBW) search.
(3) CJIS Hawaii query – for Hawaii arrest history and disposition information.
(4) National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) which includes:
(A) National Crime Information Center (NCIC) warrants.
(B) Interstate Identification Index (III) – a national index of criminal histories.
(C) NICS index – index of persons not eligible to receive firearms in the U.S.
(D) Immigration and Customs Enforcement databases – regarding whether the applicant is a citizen, a national, or a lawful permanent resident of the United States.
(E) A query of the State of Hawaii Adult Mental Health Divisions files for State of Hawaii mental health records.
(F) A query of Hawaii’s medical marijuana cardholder database to discern whether the applicant holds a medical marijuana permit (see U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, “Open letter to all federal firearms licensees,” Sept. 21, 2011).
(G) JIMS, eCourt Kokua, Ho‘ohiki, or other comparable Hawaii Judiciary databases, for State court orders and records.
(H) Any other databases required by law.
(5) Review of mental health records from other jurisdictions, or attestation from physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist, pursuant to section 15-21(b).
(d) More than one person may receive a License to carry a single firearm – such as when spouses share a firearm – provided that each person shall have a License for each firearm
to be carried.
(e) Unless the application materials demonstrate, clearly and on their face, that an applicant cannot meet the eligibility criteria set forth in these regulations, each applicant shall be
entitled to an interview with Firearms Unit personnel to present any additional information.
Upon request by the applicant, Firearms Unit personnel shall conduct the interview by telephone or by video conference, as chosen by the applicant; alternatively, Firearms Unit personnel may
conduct the interview in person upon the request of the applicant and at the discretion ofFirearms Unit personnel. [Eff and comp ] (Auth: HRS § 134-9; RCH
§ 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS § 134-9)
Ya get the point :grrr:
§15-23 Standards for issuance of License to Carry Concealed Firearm. The Chief
shall be guided by the following standards in determining whether to grant or deny an
application for a License:
(1) Pursuant to Section 134-9(b), Hawaii Revised Statutes, an applicant for a License
shall “[a]ppear to be a suitable person to be so licensed.” Being “a suitable
person” means that the applicant does not exhibit specific and articulable indicia
that would objectively indicate to a reasonable observer that the applicant poses a
heightened risk to public safety. The Chief may apply the following objective
factors when determining whether an applicant displays specific and articulable
indicia that the applicant poses a heightened risk to public safety such that the
applicant is not “a suitable person to be so licensed”:
(A) Whether the applicant has been involved in any incidents of alleged
domestic violence within the ten years preceding the application;
(B) Whether the applicant has been involved in any incidents of careless
handling, storage, or carrying of a firearm within the ten years preceding
the application;
(C) Whether the applicant has been involved in incidents of alcohol or drug
abuse, including but not limited to operating a vehicle under the influence
of an intoxicant, within the ten years preceding the application; or
(D) Whether the applicant has been involved in other violent conduct within
the ten years preceding the application.
(2) Pursuant to Sections 134-7 and 134-9(b), Hawaii Revised Statutes, an applicant
for a License shall “[n]ot have been adjudged insane or not appear to be mentally
deranged.” Being a person who does “not appear to be mentally deranged” means
that the applicant does not exhibit specific and articulable indicia that would
objectively indicate to a reasonable observer that the applicant is not capable of
being a suitable, responsible, and law-abiding user of firearms. Such specific and
articulable indicia may include suicidal ideations, homicidal ideations, or
potential dangerousness, including a violent animus towards one or more groups
based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, gender identity, gender
expression, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, or other characteristic,
such that a reasonable person would conclude that the applicant harbored an
intention to use a firearm in public to attack others rather than for self-defense.
The Chief may consider the information provided as part of the application, as
well as any other information available to the Honolulu Police Department or the
general public, in determining whether an applicant displays such specific and
articulable indicia. [Eff and comp ] (Auth: HRS § 134-9;
RCH § 6-1604(d)) (Imp: HRS § 134-9)
Is that all? Oh shiite, what da hell was I complaining about? Easy, peasy! For a while there I thought our illustrious Chief, the wonderful police commission, and our benevolent state AG and politicians were being f**kn dicks.
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 28, 2022, 11:21:30 AM
Is that all? Oh shiite, what da hell was I complaining about? Easy, peasy! For a while there I thought our illustrious Chief, the wonderful police commission, and our benevolent state AG and politicians were being f**kn dicks.There's your sarcasm!
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: surfmaster on November 02, 2022, 10:36:59 AM
Hawaii County has issued 19 concealed carry permits.
How about for Oahu? It's already November.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/11/02/hawaii-county-issues-19-concealed-carry-licenses-since-scotus-ruling-easing-gun-rules/
Post by: zippz on November 02, 2022, 10:58:14 AM
(H) The holster used by the applicant, which shall be Type 2 or above. ( which does not exist at this time)
The requirement for a type 2 holster was removed from Rule 15 due to our testimonies.
Post by: hvybarrels on November 02, 2022, 11:00:59 AM
I'm not saying you don't have a right to your opinion. It would be nice, though, if the opinion was based less on emotion and unfounded smears.
The FBI is doing armed raids of peaceful abortion protestors and anyone even remotely associated with Trump. Hundreds of Jan 6 protestors who committed no violent or destructive acts and are clearly not a danger to society remain locked up to this day without trial.
That’s not emotion and unfounded smears. That’s law enforcement hijacked by politicians, which is exactly the scenario Flapp was referring to.
I’m starting to believe that the whole point of the Honolulu “public comment” session was to put our names on a domestic terror list
But don’t take my word for it
Quote
The March assessment concluded that the militia violent extremist threat, which it describes as those who “take overt steps to violently resist or facilitate the overthrow of the United States Government in support of their belief that the United States Government is purportedly exceeding its Constitutional authority,” also “increased last year and . . . will almost certainly continue to be elevated throughout 2021.
Quote
The Department of Health and Human Services will work with the Departments of Education, Homeland Security, and Justice to develop a website that aggregates and publicizes information on federal resources – including grants, training, and technical assistance – that can assist state and local authorities and the general public in identifying the resources they need to implement their own counter domestic terrorism programs.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-merrick-b-garland-remarks-domestic-terrorism-policy-address
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 02, 2022, 11:13:12 AM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 02, 2022, 11:43:43 AM
So Chief lied again when he stated he planned on approving permits in Oct. He said the same in August as well.
I checked today, and the Rules on the HPD website haven't been updated.
Are they planning to post the revised Rules and allow for public comment again?
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 02, 2022, 12:09:31 PM
I checked today, and the Rules on the HPD website haven't been updated.
Are they planning to post the revised Rules and allow for public comment again?
At the beginning of the hearing, HPD present stated if there are "significant" changes, then another hearing will take place. IDK what changes besides what Zipp mentioned are or have been made.
Knowing how HPD operates, the revision is sitting on someones desk and they will get to it when they get to it. UIPA request may be filed later to get the ball going like how HPD handled the Taser permitting. A UIPA was sent to the AG's office asking the status and the AG found out from HPD all applications were sitting on their desk because the FBI told HPD that they cannot use the FBI to do background checks for Tasers. Shortly after this was public record, Taser permits were issued to sellers.
One has to ask how much long would the Taser permits be sitting on HPD's desk after they were told no from the FBI if a UIPA wasn't requested?
Post by: Sodie on November 02, 2022, 07:27:11 PM
The requirement for a type 2 holster was removed from Rule 15 due to our testimonies.
And here I already bought my type 2 holster… :(
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 02, 2022, 09:24:18 PM
And here I already bought my type 2 holster… :(
I thought that holster was only for diabetics.
:geekdanc: :rofl: