Post by: MarvintheMartian on August 31, 2022, 11:22:14 AM
“Usually, the term “Level 1” retention refers to what many of us call “passive retention.” In other words, the friction and tightness of the holster itself retains the firearm. While that may not sound like much, it’s often perfect for many applications.
Usually, a Level 2 holster is any holster that incorporates some kind of active retention. Some holsters, like Safariland, use a device that locks around your pistol’s trigger guard. Then, you press a button to release it. Some Level 2 holsters utilize a thumb break instead of a trigger guard lock.”
There are not very many inside the waistband (IWB or AIWB) holsters that use a Type 2/Level 2 retention system. This type of active retention holster is much more common with an outside the waistband (OWB) type holster that is threaded through the belt loops or used with a paddle attachment.
In the proposed Chief’s rules, the failure to use a Type 2 holster would prevent an applicant from obtaining a License to Carry (L2C) Permit §15-21(eight)(H) and the failure to use a Type 2 holster is grounds for the revocation of the L2C Permit in §15-27(1)(C).
HPD does not require its officers to use a Type 2/Level 2 or higher retention holster for its plainclothes on-duty officers or for off-duty carry of their service pistol or other approved supplementary firearms.
Why then are they making it a requirement for a law abiding citizen? There a few options for Type 2/Level 2 concealed carry holsters. This severely limits the manner in which a lawful citizen can carry their firearm. Drawing and hitting the target from concealment in the proposed time allotted will also be very difficult using a Type 2/Level 2 holster.
These proposed Chief’s rules should mirror HPD’s Uniforms, Equipment, and Firearms Policy (2.38) in that it doesn’t state that a Type 2/Level 2 holster is required for plainclothes or off-duty use. The rules (holster and firearm qualification standards) shouldn’t be more restrictive than the same officers Chief Logan oversees.
I am urging everyone to submit their comments regarding the proposed Chief’s rules before the deadline and if possible show up in person on October 4th at 10:00AM. If you don’t want take a moment to help make these policies fair for everyone then don’t whine about it when it becomes the standard.
Post by: zippz on August 31, 2022, 11:41:04 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on August 31, 2022, 11:45:03 AM
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 31, 2022, 11:46:42 AM
But they haven't.
Either they are extremely stupid, don't give a sh*t, or are deliberately stalling, it's hard for me to believe that they, as the experts in these matters, would miss this.
Post by: MarvintheMartian on August 31, 2022, 12:01:24 PM
Another question: Does each county get to make up its own rules for L2C application, training, qualification, equipment, etc.?
Post by: aletheuo137 on August 31, 2022, 12:17:13 PM
(https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/person-carrying-safe-box-on-600w-68114926.jpg)"Look at that yoyo"
https://youtu.be/lAD6Obi7Cag
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Post by: punaperson on August 31, 2022, 12:36:31 PM
...The implication in your last sentence is that somehow some number of people showing up and making certain comments will derail the proposed "policies". Surely you jest! No matter how many people show up, and no matter what they say in their two minutes, no one (with the possible exception of a few cops and military) is getting a carry license in the foreseeable future.
I am urging everyone to submit their comments regarding the proposed Chief’s rules before the deadline and if possible show up in person on October 4th at 10:00AM. If you don’t want take a moment to help make these policies fair for everyone then don’t whine about it when it becomes the standard.
In a way it's MORE discouraging to see large numbers show up and then get shut down. A few years ago there was a bill before a committee and the written testimony was something like 1835 AGAINST, 42 FOR... and it passed the committee, perhaps unanimously. Does that kind of common historical result inspire one to dedicate one's time to the testimony efforts?
Any changes the authorities make will likely be minor, if any. Nothing that would dramatically increase the number of people qualifying for and being issued licenses. But I admit I could be completely wrong and history will not repeat itself.
I will submit written testimony, asserting that the entire Hawaii firearms legal scheme, including registration, etc. is unconstitutional. I'm sure they'll adopt that perspective!
Post by: MarvintheMartian on August 31, 2022, 01:00:49 PM
In a way it's MORE discouraging to see large numbers show up and then get shut down. A few years ago there was a bill before a committee and the written testimony was something like 1835 AGAINST, 42 FOR... and it passed the committee, perhaps unanimously. Does that kind of common historical result inspire one to dedicate one's time to the testimony efforts?
Thank you for taking the time to submit your written testimony. I certainly understand your frustration and given the history of politics in this state, I tend to agree with you. However, if we just roll over in futility then everything is certain to continue the way is always has been. If no one took up the NYSRPA vs. Bruen case or Young vs. Hawaii case and gave up fighting for it when it was first denied at the state level instead of taking it to the U.S. Supreme Court, then we surely wouldn’t be having this conversation. No one thought that it was going to be a certain victory for 2A at any step of the proceedings. Sometimes what is right does indeed prevail. We cannot be absolutely sure of the outcome, so why not give it our collective best try?
Post by: QUIETShooter on August 31, 2022, 01:30:18 PM
Senior couples that are empty nesters (kids flew the coop) and alone in the house.
Seniors that would love to go hiking, walking, and enjoy the beach.
Seniors that have lost their spouse and live alone.
Seniors, like me, who would give their life to protect their spouse. Although, truth be told, I would rather the asshat give up their life instead of me, should he try to attack us with malice.
But to do that, I'm gonna need tools. And right now it looks like HPD and the other LE counties are making it almost impossible for me to do it legally. (see what I did there?) ;)
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 31, 2022, 01:34:15 PM
Thank you for taking the time to submit your written testimony. I certainly understand your frustration and given the history of politics in this state, I tend to agree with you. However, if we just roll over in futility then everything is certain to continue the way is always has been. If no one took up the NYSRPA vs. Bruen case or Young vs. Hawaii case and gave up fighting for it when it was first denied at the state level instead of taking it to the U.S. Supreme Court, then we surely wouldn’t be having this conversation. No one thought that it was going to be a certain victory for 2A at any step of the proceedings. Sometimes what is right does indeed prevail. We cannot be absolutely sure of the outcome, so why not give it our collective best try?
First, most regulars here do submit testimony.
Second, submitting testimony has been demonstrated to give zero weight to the decision. The lawmakers do whatever they want as long as it's politically in-line with the Democrat Party agenda.
Third, there's a major difference between taking a government law to court versus testifying before lawmakers. Lawmakers are not there to find the truth. They are there to push an agenda.
We've seen too many times where "Democracy" is only a "thing" when Democrats have the majority. Otherwise, they do whatever it takes to side-step or ignore the will of the people.
Post by: MarvintheMartian on August 31, 2022, 01:52:16 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on August 31, 2022, 02:01:30 PM
They wouldn’t need propaganda if they weren’t afraid of losing control
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 31, 2022, 02:13:18 PM
I know there's now way a GOP governor will win against Green. But I vote so I can grumble all I want later on.
Post by: punaperson on August 31, 2022, 03:38:02 PM
Thank you for taking the time to submit your written testimony. I certainly understand your frustration and given the history of politics in this state, I tend to agree with you. However, if we just roll over in futility then everything is certain to continue the way is always has been. If no one took up the NYSRPA vs. Bruen case or Young vs. Hawaii case and gave up fighting for it when it was first denied at the state level instead of taking it to the U.S. Supreme Court, then we surely wouldn’t be having this conversation. No one thought that it was going to be a certain victory for 2A at any step of the proceedings. Sometimes what is right does indeed prevail. We cannot be absolutely sure of the outcome, so why not give it our collective best try?Your original post that I commented on suggested that testimony at this public hearing might be influential in changing the procedures. You made no mention of lawsuits, which are clearly the only method by which any Second Amendment infringements in this state will be overridden (and even that has slim chance of success (see: Bruen, Young, etc.)). People can sometimes support such lawsuits via financial donations. But testimony before a Marxist authoritarian tribunal...utterly meaningless. I only do it on the one in a trillion chance miracle that something might occur in which these people would some day be held accountable, and want there to be record that they were clearly informed of their illegal acts.
So... what Flapp said.
Post by: punaperson on August 31, 2022, 03:39:18 PM
In the end, it comes down to "no vote, no grumble" saying. If you don't submit testimony or show up, no complain later.What if your "grumble" is that voting and testimony are clearly useless? ;)
I know there's now way a GOP governor will win against Green. But I vote so I can grumble all I want later on.
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 31, 2022, 04:51:22 PM
What if your "grumble" is that voting and testimony are clearly useless? ;)Then u vote so u can grumble about the grumble.
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Post by: Heavies on August 31, 2022, 06:03:05 PM
Post by: Heavies on August 31, 2022, 06:08:55 PM
Well, seeing that they have been dilly-dallying all this time they would have seen this mistake and made the proper corrections.
But they haven't.
Either they are extremely stupid, don't give a sh*t, or are deliberately stalling, it's hard for me to believe that they, as the experts in these matters, would miss this.
They are stalling, this is exactly the game plan. They don't intend to issue any CCW until the next legislative session where the great minds of our legislature can pass nonsensical sensitive places requirements, ridiculously burdensome and impossible training and insurance requirements, and whatever other unconstitutional bullshit they can muster. Then we get to fight it out in court for another few decades to a then flipped SCOTUS who will shit on the 2nd Amendment.
Post by: 6716J on September 01, 2022, 12:24:47 PM
didn't see that requirement in the HRS...
The chief making up his own rules as allowed by Chapter 15 for the Rules of the Police Chief. Of which we have never seen before. We need to do a FOIA request for the entire rule book
Post by: punaperson on September 01, 2022, 12:27:32 PM
The chief making up his own rules as allowed by Chapter 15 for the Rules of the Police Chief. Of which we have never seen before. We need to do a FOIA request for the entire rule bookPerhaps before filing an official UIPA request, you can just ask them for a digital to be emailed to you.
I just did. Maybe if we all did... LOL!
Nah! File the UIPA request.
(I'll let you know when/if I hear back.)
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 01, 2022, 12:32:17 PM
They are stalling, this is exactly the game plan. They don't intend to issue any CCW until the next legislative session where the great minds of our legislature can pass nonsensical sensitive places requirements, ridiculously burdensome and impossible training and insurance requirements, and whatever other unconstitutional bullshit they can muster. Then we get to fight it out in court for another few decades to a then flipped SCOTUS who will shit on the 2nd Amendment.
NRA-ILA has also filed a lawsuit in NY.
Post by: Heavies on September 01, 2022, 05:23:45 PM
The chief making up his own rules as allowed by Chapter 15 for the Rules of the Police Chief. Of which we have never seen before. We need to do a FOIA request for the entire rule book
The HRS says the COP is to come up with a process and procedure, not an equipment list.
Post by: 6716J on September 01, 2022, 06:34:07 PM
The HRS says the COP is to come up with a process and procedure, not an equipment list.Think they care?
HPD
1. Make burdensome and onerous rule
2. Tell peeps no can issue until you jump through hoops
3. Get sued
4. 10 years later at 9th Circuit maybe get resolved or go to scotus.
5. Laugh whole time at little people
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Post by: robtmc on September 01, 2022, 07:19:18 PM
Think they care?
HPD
1. Make burdensome and onerous rule
2. Tell peeps no can issue until you jump through hoops
3. Get sued
4. 10 years later at 9th Circuit maybe get resolved or go to scotus.
5. Laugh whole time at little people
Rinse and repeat.
They plan on you all dying off or just saying to hell with it.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 01, 2022, 09:25:55 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on September 01, 2022, 11:19:10 PM
Can they do that? Do these rules have any force of law? They don't appear to be internal policies.
They can’t force you to wear a face diaper either, but apparently we’re in a “Might Makes Right” type situation
Post by: mill8316 on September 01, 2022, 11:27:16 PM
Post by: Heavies on September 02, 2022, 06:58:59 AM
This is the stupidest part of the entire chief’s rules. There are really no good Level 2 concealment holsters that can actually be concealed easily.
They want you to print, so they can stop and frisk (harass) you
They want people to fumble around and accidentally shoot themselves when they inevitably buy serpa holsters.
They want people to fail to defend their own lives.
Criminals have more rights than you
Post by: Heavies on September 02, 2022, 07:02:05 AM
They can’t force you to wear a face diaper either, but apparently we’re in a “Might Makes Right” type situation
And the right somehow is the side that wants to tell you what to do.
As left alphabet entities harass and threaten people over legally purchased merchandise claiming they are now illegal after some word rearrangement and generous interpretation.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 02, 2022, 07:18:52 AM
Can they do that? Do these rules have any force of law? They don't appear to be internal policies.They can do what ever they want if a approval is required.
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Post by: 6716J on September 02, 2022, 08:30:49 AM
They can do what ever they want if a approval is required.
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Even if approval is not required HPD do what they want. (See telling peeps to weld a mag to an AR pistol)
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 02, 2022, 09:10:53 AM
Even if approval is not required HPD do what they want. (See telling peeps to weld a mag to an AR pistol)Maybe we can give them our pronouns for our holster! Or just call it a transitory holster!
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Post by: hk45c on September 02, 2022, 10:07:44 AM
I too assumed "Type 2" = "Level 2" but why would they use the term Type when the correct term is Level ?
Combine that with the fact that Level 2 holsters are usually used for open carry it makes no sense.
I used to have a carry permit in another state and I preferred in the pants styles which has a loop that hangs over and connect to the belt. They don't make that style in a Level 2 from what I can see, and if they did it would be crazy difficult to disengage the retention device making the gun more unsafe to the owner.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 02, 2022, 10:24:00 AM
I focused on the same issue reading through these crazy requirements. That and that fact we have to do this entire process every year to renew.
I too assumed "Type 2" = "Level 2" but why would they use the term Type when the correct term is Level ?
Combine that with the fact that Level 2 holsters are usually used for open carry it makes no sense.
I used to have a carry permit in another state and I preferred in the pants styles which has a loop that hangs over and connect to the belt. They don't make that style in a Level 2 from what I can see, and if they did it would be crazy difficult to disengage the retention device making the gun more unsafe to the owner.
Some people also pocket carry. Like Colin Noir stated in a video about his 5 CCW guns. When he goes to check his mail, he doesn't want to strap up. He's in his sweat pants and a sweater. Puts the Ruger 9 in his sweater pocket.
Post by: Rocky on September 02, 2022, 11:06:35 AM
The chief making up his own rules as allowed by Chapter 15 for the Rules of the Police Chief. Of which we have never seen before. We need to do a FOIA request for the entire rule book
https://www.honolulupd.org/rules-of-the-chief-of-police/
I notice there are no dates (other than the future October____2022
Found nothing on the "Way Back Machine"
Looks like a lot of overlapping and redundancy with Chapter 134Even some discrepancy's between the two.
It also has 6 more pages
And I don't see Rapback in the §15-15 Procedures for acquiring and registering firearms.
Are we gonna get our money back :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
If I'm not in step with something here LMK
TMTR right now.
Would probably have t print HPD Chief Rules and Chap 134 and go lie by line.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 02, 2022, 01:16:27 PM
They want you to print, so they can stop and frisk (harass) you
They want people to fumble around and accidentally shoot themselves when they inevitably buy serpa holsters.
They want people to fail to defend their own lives.
Criminals have more rights than you
Almost seems they want to create a situation where it's a no-win for the CCW holder. When the law-abiding citizen fumbles and fail to defend themselves due to these restrictions, the anti-gun pukes will say, "See, they are incapable of defending themselves and are a danger to society" not realizing it was the implementors of this stupid laws that caused the failure in the first place.
And yes, the criminals have more rights than us. They will carry with no level 2 holster, will not even apply for the stupid permit and they will be out in the streets in no time flat.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 02, 2022, 01:27:06 PM
Quote
§134-10.5 Storage of firearm; responsibility with respect to minors. No person shall store or
keep any firearm on any premises under the person’s control if the person knows or reasonably
should know that a minor is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the
parent or guardian of the minor, unless the person:
(1) Keeps the firearm in a securely locked box or other container or in a location that a
reasonable person would believe to be secure; or
(2) Carries the firearm on the person or within such close proximity thereto that the person
can readily retrieve and use it as if it were carried on the person.
If the second paragraph (2) is "reasonable" and sufficient to keep those around you safe, that's all you should be required to do when carrying in public -- with the added requirement that it be concealed if you have a CC license. No need to add any other details.
When the gun is under the control of the owner, no additional retention or security feature is required.
Post by: Heavies on September 02, 2022, 09:03:39 PM
(b) The chief of police of each county shall adopt procedures to require that any person granted a license to carry a concealed weapon on the person shall:
(1) Be qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner;
(2) Appear to be a suitable person to be so licensed;
(3) Not be prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm; and
(4) Not have been adjudged insane or not appear to be mentally deranged.
(c) No person shall carry concealed or unconcealed on the person a pistol or revolver without being licensed to do so under this section or in compliance with sections 134-5(c) or 134-25.
(d) A fee of $10 shall be charged for each license and shall be deposited in the treasury of the county in which the license is granted.
Anything that is not procedure is not allowed in the statute, the way I read it.
Post by: Heavies on September 02, 2022, 09:06:36 PM
https://safariland.com/products/model-575-iwb-gls-pro-fit-holster-model_575?currency=USD&variant=39632030498896&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&absrc=Google&abid=&gclid=CjwKCAjwsMGYBhAEEiwAGUXJaTRTEgJYa-bSiKJctujUtLDjuC7R-89nPtsfR-rQN5zPSPx8_HnqEBoCrpoQAvD_BwE&gclid=CjwKCAjwsMGYBhAEEiwAGUXJaTRTEgJYa-bSiKJctujUtLDjuC7R-89nPtsfR-rQN5zPSPx8_HnqEBoCrpoQAvD_BwE
Post by: aieahound on September 02, 2022, 10:19:47 PM
Not level 2
https://rrtholsters.com/2020/product/type-ii-holster-v2-iwb-only/
[sarc]
Idiots.
Post by: Rocky on September 04, 2022, 09:21:13 AM
It's gotta be a mistake, think they meant type 2 if open carrying which makes sense.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LqTsRzgr/54dc9c8830aebe20aad2565cad56cf7b.png) (https://postimg.cc/LqTsRzgr)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 06, 2022, 10:12:38 PM
https://www.honolulupd.org/rules-of-the-chief-of-police/
I notice there are no dates (other than the future October____2022
Found nothing on the "Way Back Machine"
Looks like a lot of overlapping and redundancy with Chapter 134Even some discrepancy's between the two.
It also has 6 more pages
And I don't see Rapback in the §15-15 Procedures for acquiring and registering firearms.
Are we gonna get our money back :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
If I'm not in step with something here LMK
TMTR right now.
Would probably have t print HPD Chief Rules and Chap 134 and go lie by line.
I cannot find anything about these rules of the chief online either. At first I thought maybe they were C&C ordinances of HAR rules but couldn't find anything either. This is a weird one, very curious how these rules are grounded and made/changed.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 07, 2022, 09:09:17 AM
I cannot find anything about these rules of the chief online either. At first I thought maybe they were C&C ordinances of HAR rules but couldn't find anything either. This is a weird one, very curious how these rules are grounded and made/changed.
Every once in a while, I agree with EEF and this is 1 of these moments. We will see on 10/4 who makes the rules for Logan to follow. Just a guess, but I'm going to say the police commission.
Post by: aieahound on September 07, 2022, 10:10:48 PM
https://www.honolulupd.org/policy/policy-uniforms-equipment-and-firearms/
C. Off-Duty Officers
1. All off-duty officers shall be in possession
of the badge, identification card, pistol in a
holster, and handcuffs at all times except as follows:
a. They shall not physically handle department-
issued or supplemental firearms while consuming
alcohol or any substance which is likely to impair
their physical or mental processes;
b. When wearing/carrying a weapon or other police
equipment is very conspicuous or impractical;
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 08, 2022, 12:08:20 PM
Nothing about a level/type holster for off duty cops.
https://www.honolulupd.org/policy/policy-uniforms-equipment-and-firearms/
C. Off-Duty Officers
1. All off-duty officers shall be in possession
of the badge, identification card, pistol in a
holster, and handcuffs at all times except as follows:
a. They shall not physically handle department-
issued or supplemental firearms while consuming
alcohol or any substance which is likely to impair
their physical or mental processes;
b. When wearing/carrying a weapon or other police
equipment is very conspicuous or impractical;
This can be brought up at the hearing. "What about you guys when off duty carrying?"
I honestly think this is a type about the lvl 2.
Post by: Rocky on September 08, 2022, 03:40:55 PM
This can be brought up at the hearing. "What about you guys when off duty carrying?"
I honestly think this is a type about the lvl 2.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=46685.new#new
Post by: ren on September 08, 2022, 04:59:11 PM
Nothing about a level/type holster for off duty cops.
https://www.honolulupd.org/policy/policy-uniforms-equipment-and-firearms/
C. Off-Duty Officers
1. All off-duty officers shall be in possession
of the badge, identification card, pistol in a
holster, and handcuffs at all times except as follows:
a. They shall not physically handle department-
issued or supplemental firearms while consuming
alcohol or any substance which is likely to impair
their physical or mental processes;
b. When wearing/carrying a weapon or other police
equipment is very conspicuous or impractical;
Citizens are not police officers and officers are held to a higher standard. Just bringing up a possible rebuttal to that statement.
Post by: aieahound on September 08, 2022, 06:18:38 PM
And do they have to qualify for concealed carry annually as they should be in possession of a firearm while off duty unless it’s conspicuous or impractical or they are out drinking?
Higher standard. They don’t get charged with reckless endangerment when they miss the perp’s car for jiminy’s sake…with multiple shots…never mind missed the person with a ridiculous number of rounds.
But I get what your sayin’. That’ll be their story and their sticking’ to it.
Post by: 6716J on September 09, 2022, 04:00:08 PM
Nothing about a level/type holster for off duty cops.
https://www.honolulupd.org/policy/policy-uniforms-equipment-and-firearms/
C. Off-Duty Officers
1. All off-duty officers shall be in possession
of the badge, identification card, pistol in a
holster, and handcuffs at all times except as follows:
a. They shall not physically handle department-
issued or supplemental firearms while consuming
alcohol or any substance which is likely to impair
their physical or mental processes;
b. When wearing/carrying a weapon or other police
equipment is very conspicuous or impractical;
And who remembers this gem....?
https://www.civilbeat.org/2017/04/lawsuit-police-officers-union-tried-to-cover-up-bar-shooting/
Hyun Ju Park was shot in the stomach by an off-duty Honolulu police officer on April 3, 2015.
Officials described the incident as an accident.
Park was a bartender at Kings Sports Bar, and Anson Kimura, a sergeant with 25 years on the force, was drinking there with two of his buddies when his gun went off.
(https://i.imgflip.com/3ok8ww.jpg)
Post by: zippz on September 12, 2022, 08:48:42 AM
I keep asking what is their standard for annual qualifying ?
And do they have to qualify for concealed carry annually as they should be in possession of a firearm while off duty unless it’s conspicuous or impractical or they are out drinking?
Higher standard. They don’t get charged with reckless endangerment when they miss the perp’s car for jiminy’s sake…with multiple shots…never mind missed the person with a ridiculous number of rounds.
But I get what your sayin’. That’ll be their story and their sticking’ to it.
They have to do the HPD firearms qual for their off-duty carry guns, unless they use their duty gun for that.
I shot the qual about 7 years ago, wasn't that hard if you get practice in and the new shooters pass it with the HPD training. One of the goals of a LE test is to make sure you don't fail cadets out of the academy.
Post by: zippz on September 12, 2022, 08:50:26 AM
I cannot find anything about these rules of the chief online either. At first I thought maybe they were C&C ordinances of HAR rules but couldn't find anything either. This is a weird one, very curious how these rules are grounded and made/changed.
HPD hasn't implemented the actual RAPBACK because the FBI doesn't do it.
Post by: ren on September 12, 2022, 08:53:43 AM
HPD hasn't implemented the actual RAPBACK because the FBI doesn't do it.
I'd like my money back. It doesn't seem legal to charge us arbitrary fees. Want money back plus interest.
"hey we are going to develop this mind-reading device in 25 years - we will need $1000 from each of you firearms owners to kickstart"
Post by: Heavies on September 12, 2022, 06:19:55 PM
Quote
§15-27 Revocation. (a) Revocation of License.
(1) The following will immediately result in revocation of all of a licensee’s
Concealed Licenses:
(C) Where the licensee has been found carrying a firearm without a Type 2 or
higher holster.
(D) Where a licensee who does not possess an Unconcealed License has been
found carrying a firearm that is not concealed.
....
They want you to print, then automatic revocation, because you are now carrying unconcealed.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 12, 2022, 10:31:47 PM
Why do they want to require you to use a huge type 2 holster?
They want you to print, then automatic revocation, because you are now carrying unconcealed.
**IF** they require a specific holster type for the test (big "if"), that's for the test. Once you pass, you will be able to use whatever holster you choose.
There's nothing in the law requiring a specific type of holster for concealed carry that I found. At least, not yet.
If you can choose what gun to carry, you should also be able to choose what holster works best for it.
Just tossing that out. I think people are getting wrapped around the axle over a bunch of DRAFT rules that aren't official. Good to discuss, but DANG! The amount of hysteria over this is just surprising.
So, if the Cops expect you to carry a bulky level 2 holster concealed and it doesn't actually conceal, they can (1) get you for printing with the required holster or, (2) get you for NOT printing, because you obviously aren't wearing the required type of holster!
:rofl:
Post by: Heavies on September 13, 2022, 12:37:31 AM
**IF** they require a specific holster type for the test (big "if"), that's for the test. Once you pass, you will be able to use whatever holster you choose.
There's nothing in the law requiring a specific type of holster for concealed carry that I found. At least, not yet.
If you can choose what gun to carry, you should also be able to choose what holster works best for it.
Just tossing that out. I think people are getting wrapped around the axle over a bunch of DRAFT rules that aren't official. Good to discuss, but DANG! The amount of hysteria over this is just surprising.
So, if the Cops expect you to carry a bulky level 2 holster concealed and it doesn't actually conceal, they can (1) get you for printing with the required holster or, (2) get you for NOT printing, because you obviously aren't wearing the required type of holster!
:rofl:
I like your optimism, but I’m not holding my breath that any of our comments/testimony to these rules are going to be considered. It’s going to go through with the attitude of “sue me”. Then we can drag it out in court for a few more decades.
I’d like to be completely wrong on this. But the pattern says otherwise.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 13, 2022, 05:26:08 AM
I like your optimism, but I’m not holding my breath that any of our comments/testimony to these rules are going to be considered. It’s going to go through with the attitude of “sue me”. Then we can drag it out in court for a few more decades.
I’d like to be completely wrong on this. But the pattern says otherwise.
Agree. One of the main points of my written testimony concerns how they drafted the rules regarding the type/level 2 holster. In Hawaii with light clothing almost year-round, the holster will print plain and simple, leading to dangerous and legal consequences for the concealed carrier.
Just like voting, I continue to submit testimony, because it's the best I can do. And in reality, that's about all I can do as a concerned citizen.
I can also argue and complain with conviction. And shut down those who offer a counter argument but has done nothing either for or against the issue at hand.
Post by: drck1000 on September 13, 2022, 07:11:36 AM
I keep asking what is their standard for annual qualifying ?It's not difficult to get that info. If/when you try, make sure you fly Inspector in and have OF there to "mark" your hits. . .
SNIP
:rofl:
Post by: drck1000 on September 13, 2022, 07:13:26 AM
Agree. One of the main points of my written testimony concerns how they drafted the rules regarding the type/level 2 holster. In Hawaii with light clothing almost year-round, the holster will print plain and simple, leading to dangerous and legal consequences for the concealed carrier.Some in Hawaii are trying to be too much like CA and NY. To be able to say they are progressive and pushing things in the name of safety. I THINK some are well intentioned, however, mostly ignorant and focus on feeling safe.
Just like voting, I continue to submit testimony, because it's the best I can do. And in reality, that's about all I can do as a concerned citizen.
I can also argue and complain with conviction. And shut down those who offer a counter argument but has done nothing either for or against the issue at hand.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 13, 2022, 07:28:04 AM
I like your optimism, but I’m not holding my breath that any of our comments/testimony to these rules are going to be considered. It’s going to go through with the attitude of “sue me”. Then we can drag it out in court for a few more decades.You arent wrong.
I’d like to be completely wrong on this. But the pattern says otherwise.
At best, minor tweeks, but nothing major will be amended.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Rocky on September 13, 2022, 11:50:10 AM
It's not difficult to get that info. If/when you try, make sure you fly Inspector in and have OF there to "mark" your hits. . .And I'll make sure they "hear" them ! :D
:rofl:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 13, 2022, 12:10:29 PM
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/safariland-575-iwb-gls-pro-fit-review/393710?fbclid=IwAR0j01nAcVphEpOiy96R499h3MdKPRmi3FAIPdWcGar6TYn9eMs5hxOr8f4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0Od_4UYG7M95vDEFtfqRVkW2dhxnbd3xZoc3kwzDgg97bSlTAPKSQAlxo&v=wANAVeznxok&feature=youtu.be
Post by: Heavies on September 13, 2022, 12:16:12 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 13, 2022, 12:22:35 PM
That’s the one I posted earlier up the thread. They only make for some select firearms. They do make them for some of the most popular carry guns though.
No focus.
Post by: Rocky on September 13, 2022, 01:04:46 PM
Some type/lvl 2 maybe:
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/safariland-575-iwb-gls-pro-fit-review/393710?fbclid=IwAR0j01nAcVphEpOiy96R499h3MdKPRmi3FAIPdWcGar6TYn9eMs5hxOr8f4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0Od_4UYG7M95vDEFtfqRVkW2dhxnbd3xZoc3kwzDgg97bSlTAPKSQAlxo&v=wANAVeznxok&feature=youtu.be
Guess I would have to try them
Post by: aieahound on September 13, 2022, 02:42:09 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 13, 2022, 02:59:43 PM
Most of the holsters offered are passive retention types.
Post by: drck1000 on September 13, 2022, 03:31:57 PM
A casual search on-line reveals that many CCW designed pistols, especially the pocket and micro types have very little type/level 2 offerings.Gotta get one of these! ;D
Most of the holsters offered are passive retention types.
https://www.galcogunleather.com/about-miami-classic.html (https://www.galcogunleather.com/about-miami-classic.html)
Post by: stangzilla on September 13, 2022, 06:44:24 PM
Doesn’t look like they make the safariland for revolvers.
Would a hammer thong or button strap make it a level 2 holster?
Post by: Rocky on September 13, 2022, 08:07:31 PM
Would a hammer thong or button strap make it a level 2 holster?Only if you're crotch pack'n. :shake:
Post by: zippz on September 14, 2022, 02:26:59 AM
But then again what is a type 2 holster? They don't define it in the policy and it's not a standard definition. Maybe we'll tell them that later. a lot later.
(https://octopus-office.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/rubber-bands.jpg)
Post by: drck1000 on September 14, 2022, 07:15:44 AM
DIY Type 2 Holster modThat's the ammo. . . ;D
But then again what is a type 2 holster? They don't define it in the policy and it's not a standard definition. Maybe we'll tell them that later. a lot later.
SNIP
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 14, 2022, 09:22:12 AM
Post by: drck1000 on September 14, 2022, 09:39:33 AM
Just for giggles, since it's not defined, everyone write with sharpie "Type 2" on the holster. Problem solved."I identify as Type 2 holster" on the holster. . . ;D
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 14, 2022, 10:03:05 AM
"I identify as Type 2 holster" on the holster. . . ;D
Or we all gotta carry Nanbu Type 2s.
Post by: Rocky on September 14, 2022, 01:37:39 PM
Either you are segregating all of the 1 and 3 "type" holsters or showing special preference to the "Type 2's". :grrr:
Post by: aieahound on September 14, 2022, 06:12:16 PM
Magnetic retention.
https://sneakypeteholsters.com/bodyguard-38-special-belt-clip-holster/?sku=SP-841-N&gclid=Cj0KCQjw94WZBhDtARIsAKxWG-8OvPT6JyBp8m-MnAmWPHDazxPqAxucpE7O_O-INQ8Cg2nOvtzst2oaAh79EALw_wcB
I was a type 1 (No retention) until I got married then I became a type 2 (retention) we then had 3 more types and they are all different but all have their positives and negatives.
Post by: aaronc5362 on September 14, 2022, 07:43:12 PM
DIY Type 2 Holster mod
But then again what is a type 2 holster? They don't define it in the policy and it's not a standard definition. Maybe we'll tell them that later. a lot later.
(https://octopus-office.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/rubber-bands.jpg)
So what your saying is all I have to do is put a bungee cord over the backstrap or hammer (depending what gun it is) and it becomes a possible "type 2" holster?
Makes sense. It is a secondary retention. Not the ideal draw, but it'll be good enough... Dremel/ drill some holes in the kydex. Make some knots.. Take a pull tab from one of my mag pouches and voila...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 14, 2022, 08:24:47 PM
Given that FACT, it would make more sense for everyone applying for carry request approval to OPEN CARRY.
They force us to use an open carry holster, then they force us to open carry.
Seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.