2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: pukas84 on November 10, 2022, 02:54:03 PM
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I am looking for a red dot for an AR-15. Was searching the web and couldn't nail down a specific one to get. Was looking at Aimpoint Pro and RDS, Trijicon MRO, and others. What have you folks had good success with? Looking at around $500. Also maybe down the line to get a magnifier with it to. Thank you for your help.
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Aimpoint PRO, T-1/2, Comp M4 & Comp M5
Eotech EXPS 3-0
Had good experiences with all. At $500, you're looking at Aimpoint PRO and EXPS 2-0. Or finding one on used.
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I am looking for a red dot for an AR-15. Was searching the web and couldn't nail down a specific one to get. Was looking at Aimpoint Pro and RDS, Trijicon MRO, and others. What have you folks had good success with? Looking at around $500. Also maybe down the line to get a magnifier with it to. Thank you for your help.
I've been using an aimpoint M2 for 20 years and it's served me well through competitions and advanced rifle courses all this time. Only thing I don't like is the 4 moa dot was too large for far targets, but current dots are much better in that regard.
I thought about getting a magnifier, but skipped it as I found it wasn't worth the expense, bulk, and weight. A purpose of a magnifier is more used for target identification. Don't really need mag to shoot man sized targets within 300 yards. Anything over 300 yards you would get mag with a reticle to range.
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It depends on what kind of setup you want with your AR. Will it be a jack of all trades, just a range run, or strictly a home defense gun, or will it be used only for hibting? If you’re looking for a solid all around reasonably priced red dot, I’d get the Primary Arms Holosun 503G. It’s exclusive to Primary Arms and takes any of the aimpoint micro mounts. It’s also about 1/2 your budget. I’ve got two, one I’ve had for a couple of years and a few classes, and it’s solid. The “shake awake” (not shake weight) is a good feature that’ll extend your battery life.
https://youtu.be/XwJY3RLsISk (https://youtu.be/XwJY3RLsISk)
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I have the 510c which runs about $300, but the 512 is better and can get with titanium housing for a little more $$
https://youtu.be/tAqT-vgxJCY
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Of all the "affordable" military-grade optics, I chose the AimPoint PRO.
Not only for the price -- usually in the $400 ballpark -- but it also came with a mount. Many other models you need to buy the mount separately, making those optics cost even more.
It's rugged, can be used with the flip covers closed if you have both eyes open, and the battery lasts 3 years while kept "On" at the lowest illumination level. It has night vision settings so the dot is visible through NV goggles, and the battery hatch is accessible without needing to remove/re-zero the optic.
The battery is the very-easy-to-find DL1/3N camera battery, which comes with the optic. Some optics may use Lithium batteries that you can't find at Walmart or Long's.
It's a little on the bulky side, which adds some weight to the gun, but only by a couple of ounces. The specs state 7.8 oz for the optic alone. For comparison, the Micro T-1 is 3 oz, and until recently sold for almost $900. Now it's listed on the AimPoint site for $499. For that price, it looks like it comes with a pistol mount for Ruger Mark III/IV, but you have to buy a standard mount separately for an AR rail. That's listed at $92.
I have 3 PROs, and one matching 3X magnifier. The magnifier is more for precision shots and helps with zeroing the red dot at the range. Less challenging to get small groupings with older eyeballs. IRL, I can see using the magnifier for varmints and hunting small game. For home/self defense, better to go 1X and keep both eyes open.
I also splurged for the rubber protector to preserve the finish, mainly if I decide to sell any of them.
I didn't buy the Kill Flash lens cover. it's designed to prevent refections that the "enemy" might see. For $50, I'll take that chance!
The magnifier reminds me of Jurassic Park, when the kid, Timmy, is playing with the NV Goggles in the car.
Lawyer: "Where did you get those?"
Timmy: "I found them under the seat."
Lawyer: "Are they heavy?"
Timmy: "Yeah."
Lawyer: "Then they're expensive. Put them back."
The AimPoint 3x is quality glass, which you can tell by its weight. The AimPoint quick-detach twist mount was purchased separately. Not cheap, but cheaper than most other brands.
No matter what you decide, check all the specs before buying. Make sure you know what mounts are included. Even if it comes with one, the one included might not be what you want. Prices for aftermarket top-tier mounts run upwards of $250 sometimes. Factor in battery location, too. Changing one might require a re-zeroing when removing the optic.
Hope some of that is helpful.
:shaka:
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Of all the "affordable" military-grade optics, I chose the AimPoint PRO.
Not only for the price -- usually in the $400 ballpark -- but it also came with a mount. Many other models you need to buy the mount separately, making those optics cost even more.
It's rugged, can be used with the flip covers closed if you have both eyes open, and the battery lasts 3 years while kept "On" at the lowest illumination level. It has night vision settings so the dot is visible through NV goggles, and the battery hatch is accessible without needing to remove/re-zero the optic.
The battery is the very-easy-to-find DL1/3N camera battery, which comes with the optic. Some optics may use Lithium batteries that you can't find at Walmart or Long's.
It's a little on the bulky side, which adds some weight to the gun, but only by a couple of ounces. The specs state 7.8 oz for the optic alone. For comparison, the Micro T-1 is 3 oz, and until recently sold for almost $900. Now it's listed on the AimPoint site for $499. For that price, it looks like it comes with a pistol mount for Ruger Mark III/IV, but you have to buy a standard mount separately for an AR rail. That's listed at $92.
I have 3 PROs, and one matching 3X magnifier. The magnifier is more for precision shots and helps with zeroing the red dot at the range. Less challenging to get small groupings with older eyeballs. IRL, I can see using the magnifier for varmints and hunting small game. For home/self defense, better to go 1X and keep both eyes open.
I also splurged for the rubber protector to preserve the finish, mainly if I decide to sell any of them.
I didn't buy the Kill Flash lens cover. it's designed to prevent refections that the "enemy" might see. For $50, I'll take that chance!
The magnifier reminds me of Jurassic Park, when the kid, Timmy, is playing with the NV Goggles in the car.
Lawyer: "Where did you get those?"
Timmy: "I found them under the seat."
Lawyer: "Are they heavy?"
Timmy: "Yeah."
Lawyer: "Then they're expensive. Put them back."
The AimPoint 3x is quality glass, which you can tell by its weight. The AimPoint quick-detach twist mount was purchased separately. Not cheap, but cheaper than most other brands.
No matter what you decide, check all the specs before buying. Make sure you know what mounts are included. Even if it comes with one, the one included might not be what you want. Prices for aftermarket top-tier mounts run upwards of $250 sometimes. Factor in battery location, too. Changing one might require a re-zeroing when removing the optic.
Hope some of that is helpful.
:shaka:
I was looking at the Aimpoint Pro, but a lot of the known companies are out of stock.
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my favorite is the Aimpoint CompM4. Over the years, I've been getting USED ones, genuine military recycled, off of ebay, used to be $350, then $400, now the lowest successful bids are about $500, Bidenflation. I've come to appreciate the "been there, done that" patina, but i do scrutinize the lens pics very closely for scratches before bidding. They are certainly "takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking" for sure. New, they're over $900.
I also have a couple of EOTechs, and a slew of MRO's which are fine by me, despite all the hoopla of off-axis parallax dot shift. My EOTechs have gravitated to my 9mm AR's, but my genuine SHTF red dot is solidly my DRMO CompM4's, no if's, and's or but's. I also have a CompM4S with the lower mount battery compartment, but those usually bid for $50-$100 more. Hey, I like my CompM4's. the 30mm objective is really nice to have, compared to the 20mm objective of just about everything else. Once you get used to 30mm, those 20mm red dots are all seriously handicapped, like a window vs a peep sight. Probably the same goes for EOTech, nice "big-screen" window. But I'm sure you can overcome the handicap with training, training, training.
I'm trying out the Holosun titanium HE530G, got a couple of those, they also have the 30mm objective, super-light compared to the CompM4, 6.5oz vs 13.3oz advertised weights, but the HE530G just doesn't have the raw sex appeal, battle-tested street cred of the CompM4. It is a solid chunk of titanium, being a slightly smaller package, it uses the Aimpoint T1 footprint mount, so trying to get my preferred absolute co-witness is a little bit tricky.
I also have a couple of Sig Romeo7's which are also 30mm objective. a helluva lot cheaper (and new!). Same mounting foot print as the CompM4, which means the aftermarket ADM and MI QD mounts fit perfectly. The Romeo7's work absolutely fine, but I just don't trust them as much as my battle-tested CompM4's. and not to be confused with the Sig Romeo7S, which only has a 22m objective viewing area.
DRMO = Defense Reutilization Marketing Office, source for used "Military Surplus" stuff. Although now they're called something else. Certain ebay vendors specialize in DRMO stuff, some specialize even more just in CompM4's and CompM4S's.
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Success with: mro, aimpoint h1, aimpoint h2, aimpoint t1, holosun 515t, rmr type 1, rmr type 2, aimpoint pro and a romeo 5.
Never tested it but I also got a holosun 407 3moa dot. Crisp dot.
Shot with but do not own: 503r, 403r.
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For Holosun, I have a couple 503 on 5.55 and 9 mm ARs. I also have a 403 on a beater 5.55 AR. All have performed well, but haven’t put any of them through a full carbine classes. I know a couple of instructors who have Holosun in their ARs and they’ve been beat up pretty good and heard no complaints.
I put my guns that had a Comp M4s through many carbine classes. Some with round counts over 1k. I thought it was bomb proof and liked the battery availability. They are pretty heavy though. Ended up selling it after I got a warranty replacement. I have a CompM5 now, but have only shot it in half day classes. I’m sure it’s solid though.
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my favorite is the Aimpoint CompM4. Over the years, I've been getting USED ones, genuine military recycled, off of ebay, used to be $350, then $400, now the lowest successful bids are about $500, Bidenflation. I've come to appreciate the "been there, done that" patina, but i do scrutinize the lens pics very closely for scratches before bidding. They are certainly "takes a lickin' and keeps on ticking" for sure. New, they're over $900.
I also have a couple of EOTechs, and a slew of MRO's which are fine by me, despite all the hoopla of off-axis parallax dot shift. My EOTechs have gravitated to my 9mm AR's, but my genuine SHTF red dot is solidly my DRMO CompM4's, no if's, and's or but's. I also have a CompM4S with the lower mount battery compartment, but those usually bid for $50-$100 more. Hey, I like my CompM4's. the 30mm objective is really nice to have, compared to the 20mm objective of just about everything else. Once you get used to 30mm, those 20mm red dots are all seriously handicapped, like a window vs a peep sight. Probably the same goes for EOTech, nice "big-screen" window. But I'm sure you can overcome the handicap with training, training, training.
I'm trying out the Holosun titanium HE530G, got a couple of those, they also have the 30mm objective, super-light compared to the CompM4, 6.5oz vs 13.3oz advertised weights, but the HE530G just doesn't have the raw sex appeal, battle-tested street cred of the CompM4. It is a solid chunk of titanium, being a slightly smaller package, it uses the Aimpoint T1 footprint mount, so trying to get my preferred absolute co-witness is a little bit tricky.
I also have a couple of Sig Romeo7's which are also 30mm objective. a helluva lot cheaper (and new!). Same mounting foot print as the CompM4, which means the aftermarket ADM and MI QD mounts fit perfectly. The Romeo7's work absolutely fine, but I just don't trust them as much as my battle-tested CompM4's. and not to be confused with the Sig Romeo7S, which only has a 22m objective viewing area.
DRMO = Defense Reutilization Marketing Office, source for used "Military Surplus" stuff. Although now they're called something else. Certain ebay vendors specialize in DRMO stuff, some specialize even more just in CompM4's and CompM4S's.
Never considered DRMO options. As mentioned above, I liked my CompM4s. Ended up going with newer and lighter models, but wouldn’t hesitate in recommending the CompM4, esp if one can find them in 350-400 price range, prob even more.
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5.55 ARs?
For Holosun, I have a couple 503 on 5.55 and 9 mm ARs. I also have a 403 on a beater 5.55 AR. All have performed well, but haven’t put any of them through a full carbine classes. I know a couple of instructors who have Holosun in their ARs and they’ve been beat up pretty good and heard no complaints.
I put my guns that had a Comp M4s through many carbine classes. Some with round counts over 1k. I thought it was bomb proof and liked the battery availability. They are pretty heavy though. Ended up selling it after I got a warranty replacement. I have a CompM5 now, but have only shot it in half day classes. I’m sure it’s solid though.
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5.55 ARs?
Don’t know how to use calipers…
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Don’t know how to use calipers…
jabone...
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Focus
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I have the 510c which runs about $300, but the 512 is better and can get with titanium housing for a little more $$
https://youtu.be/tAqT-vgxJCY
Dunno if palmetto state armory still has it but ive seen HE512 on sale for 290ish. But that was about a month ago
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I use a SIG ROMEO 5. It's shake on and auto off. $125 or so. Since this is not a "duty" rifle, but sits at home 99% of the time, it works. I've taken numerous skill builders with it and have had it for 6 years now. So it's been in the dirt and not just bench shooting. No issues. In the end, it's the indian not the arrow. I've seen guys with $1600 ACOGS or EOTech reflex type optics and can't hit anything from as close as 10 yards.
Only reason why I would buy something more robust is if it's carried daily (duty). But for home defense, the ROMEO 5 can do the job and for a very good price. IMO Aimpoints are overpriced.
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Dunno if palmetto state armory still has it but ive seen HE512 on sale for 290ish. But that was about a month ago
PSA has quite frequent sales on Holosun. I recently picked up on at close to 50% off. I check once in a while and usually see awesome sales around the holidays.
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I use a SIG ROMEO 5. It's shake on and auto off. $125 or so. Since this is not a "duty" rifle, but sits at home 99% of the time, it works. 1) I've taken numerous skill builders with it and have had it for 6 years now. So it's been in the dirt and not just bench shooting. No issues. In the end, it's the indian not the arrow. 2) I've seen guys with $1600 ACOGS or EOTech reflex type optics and can't hit anything from as close as 10 yards.
Only reason why I would buy something more robust is if it's carried daily (duty). 3) But for home defense, the ROMEO 5 can do the job and for a very good price. 4) IMO Aimpoints are overpriced.
1) Have you taken a full day or a multi-day course? Say 400 rounds per day? Not quite Magpul action, but something along those lines?
2) You sure wasn't chinesium?
3) Sounds like you're "gtg", bruh.
4) I heard same for Colt 1911s :rofl:
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1) Have you taken a full day or a multi-day course? Say 400 rounds per day? Not quite Magpul action, but something along those lines?
Most I shot in a day was about 270ish for 1 day.
What issues have you seen with optics for these courses?
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Most I shot in a day was about 270ish for 1 day.
What issues have you seen with optics for these courses?
I've seen issues with a variety of optics. Including optics from mfrs with reputation for high quality and robust products. My point was more to get your context, which I had a$$umed and that you're "gtg".
To answer your question, I've seen:
1) Trijicon 1-4 that was fine at 1x, but way off at 200 yards at 4x. Was during a class, so the owner didn't have much time to iron it out.
2) Aimpoint T-1. Elevation dial didn't work. I ended up loaning the T-1 on a second rifle I had with me.
3) Aimpoint M2. Don't recall what the issue was, but I ended up loaning the T-1 noted above (second day of the class).
4) EoTech. Forget which model, but the lens was loose in the housing. Rendered the optic useless.
5) Holosuns. Have seen a number unable to hold zero, but not sure if it was the optic or the mount. I've seen many Holosun mounts work their way loose, but no idea if the owner used loctite or proper torque.
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To answer your question, I've seen:
1) Trijicon 1-4 that was fine at 1x, but way off at 200 yards at 4x. Was during a class, so the owner didn't have much time to iron it out.
2) Aimpoint T-1. Elevation dial didn't work. I ended up loaning the T-1 on a second rifle I had with me.
3) Aimpoint M2. Don't recall what the issue was, but I ended up loaning the T-1 noted above (second day of the class).
4) EoTech. Forget which model, but the lens was loose in the housing. Rendered the optic useless.
5) Holosuns. Have seen a number unable to hold zero, but not sure if it was the optic or the mount. I've seen many Holosun mounts work their way loose, but no idea if the owner used loctite or proper torque.
1) Was this user error including bad amounting or something wrong with the LPVO
2) Why did he have to touch the elevation dial? Was he not zero'd? Granted I've never had to shoot past 100yrds, but I would not touch my dials on a RDS, especially since IDK where they go back to. I theoretically know where to hold at 200-400 yards. For my 22, even that IDK where to get the 18X scope back to, so I just use guestimation holds.
4) Shit happens. I have a friend whos EOTech, IDK what model the front screen is becoming delaminated or something. He's had it only for a few years. It's that EOTech model that we talked about that was on sale at 1 time on Brownells. So IDK if this is common with EOTech's or just bad luck. I was thinking he had a China EOTech, but he also has NODs which he spent like $15K on , so I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt he has a legit EOTech. I've seen a guy with a China ACOG. The thing was blurry. I didn't realize it until I saw down a real ACOG which was crystal clear. I told him about it and he did buy it on ebay for cheaper than the MSRP. So he thinks he has a China ACOG too.
5) Now I think back that I never had a torx set until last month (for the pistol RDS). For the ROMEO5's I just crank it on tight and recently put blue loctite on them a few months ago when my optic came loose after 5 years of usage with no loctite (same hand tight cranking was used). I guess I want to now redo my mounting since I have a Torx set now. But guess no need really until it comes loose again. So I'm "G2G' for now. Mrs. CMO's one never came loose with no loctite. But after mine did, I loctited hers too (hand cranked).
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1) Was this user error including bad amounting or something wrong with the LPVO
2) Why did he have to touch the elevation dial? Was he not zero'd? Granted I've never had to shoot past 100yrds, but I would not touch my dials on a RDS, especially since IDK where they go back to. I theoretically know where to hold at 200-400 yards. For my 22, even that IDK where to get the 18X scope back to, so I just use guestimation holds.
4) Shit happens. I have a friend whos EOTech, IDK what model the front screen is becoming delaminated or something. He's had it only for a few years. It's that EOTech model that we talked about that was on sale at 1 time on Brownells. So IDK if this is common with EOTech's or just bad luck. I was thinking he had a China EOTech, but he also has NODs which he spent like $15K on , so I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt he has a legit EOTech. I've seen a guy with a China ACOG. The thing was blurry. I didn't realize it until I saw down a real ACOG which was crystal clear. I told him about it and he did buy it on ebay for cheaper than the MSRP. So he thinks he has a China ACOG too.
5) Now I think back that I never had a torx set until last month (for the pistol RDS). For the ROMEO5's I just crank it on tight and recently put blue loctite on them a few months ago when my optic came loose after 5 years of usage with no loctite (same hand tight cranking was used). I guess I want to now redo my mounting since I have a Torx set now. But guess no need really until it comes loose again. So I'm "G2G' for now. Mrs. CMO's one never came loose with no loctite. But after mine did, I loctited hers too (hand cranked).
1) I think it was something wrong with the optic. I forget. I am still friends with the guy. IIRC, he got a replacement. Don't remember what the cause was.
2) I vaguely remember, but I think it was changing from 100 yard zero to 50 yard zero after the morning classroom session.
4) Yes, they do. I thought it was a knockoff, but wasn't mine.
5) You "cranked it down" without the proper bit? Sometimes a hex can fit "good enough" to move, but will click when tightening, even hand tight.
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1) I think it was something wrong with the optic. I forget. I am still friends with the guy. IIRC, he got a replacement. Don't remember what the cause was.
2) I vaguely remember, but I think it was changing from 100 yard zero to 50 yard zero after the morning classroom session.
4) Yes, they do. I thought it was a knockoff, but wasn't mine.
5) You "cranked it down" without the proper bit? Sometimes a hex can fit "good enough" to move, but will click when tightening, even hand tight.
2) I wonder if the dials were moving on their own, so no clickty click. I had a friends 22LR scope that's like 24X lose zero everytime he put it back in the bag. Something was wrong with the dials when the rifle moves (nothing was touching the dials). IIRC it was a Nightforce or something.
5) I used the provided bit to crank it down. Just unknown torx amount. Manuel says 15-20lbs. I'll leave as is until it moves again.
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2) I wonder if the dials were moving on their own, so no clickty click. I had a friends 22LR scope that's like 24X lose zero everytime he put it back in the bag. Something was wrong with the dials when the rifle moves (nothing was touching the dials). IIRC it was a Nightforce or something.
5) I used the provided bit to crank it down. Just unknown torx amount. Manuel says 15-20lbs. I'll leave as is until it moves again.
2) For the T-1, I don't think so. But I've seen it happening on an RDS. Free spinning dial. For things moving, I've seen reticles come loose. When I was having issues with my ZCO, I thought maybe that was happening. Since the first shot was almost right on and then it "walked". Turns out wasn't an issue, but not something easy to diagnose. Or at least I don't know how to.
5) Who is Manuel? He work at a LGS?
[sarcasm\]
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Aimpoint PRO is pretty basic but my issue with them is the battery life and accessibility to batteries. With my sample of one, to have the red dot at a reasonable brightness it drains the battery faster than the 1-2 year battery life people claim. The battery is also rather special, so you have to order them online.
Comp M4 is great and I prefer it over the PRO simply because of the battery, but get the M4S because the battery housing will be less obtrusive to the sight picture. Also you’d be in for a good deal if you get a used one. Brand new is pretty expensive. I have had it for a few years and only changed out the battery maybe once.
Holosun 503 is good for what it is. Durable Chinese red dot and has nice features like the shake awake. Basically it’s a bootleg T2 but with a slight blue tint.
Holosun AEMS. May generate some mixed feelings because the glass is a bit distorted closer to the edges, which is pretty much like a fisheye effect. I like it though. Very light, very little optic body to get in the way, shake awake, and the built in lens covers are great. Wished there was a kill flash for it though.
Eotech xps2. Was pretty neat while I had it. Was not a fan of the feature where the lens coating starts to spiderweb from (apparently) moisture damage despite spending most of its time being stored away. Still probably the best 1x sighting unit to use with a magnifier though because the reticle is very crips while the other dots I mentioned have a football shape.