2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: QUIETShooter on November 16, 2022, 01:52:04 PM
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More specifically a semi-auto "full size" handgun. No mouse guns.
These are the features I desire in the handgun:
Reliability
Good front and rear sights
Longevity (meaning I want a work horse, not a princess)
I originally considered P-320 and Glocks 17 and 19
I'm a novice to semi-autos so I really don't know much about what's out there and would appreciate input, advice, and experiences from the members here.
Most likely than not the gun will be used as a range toy and for recreational shooting.
Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:
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i just recently purchased a Sig P365 X MACRO...Will test it out next week in Las Vegas! Should be a Winner!
17 round mags...with Compensator.....BTW when i bring mags back, will be restricted to 10 rounds...
Aloha!
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I can share what I like about each having experience with both sig (p365) and Glock (45). The field strip can be more humbug with the sig as theres a few more things going on at once compared to the glock, disassembling the trigger group (glock) or fire control group (sig) is where I prefer the Glock due to simplicity getting a deep clean.
The advantage of being modular definitely goes to the sig because of the serialized part being the fire control group (trigger assembly) and not the grip module (frame). For example, one could buy a standard p365 and later on if a larger XL sized pistol is desired, you can then purchase additional XL size grip module (frame), slide, barrel, recoil spring, and magazine adapter plates and have essentially a micro-compact 365 AND the larger XL size or combine both to get a p365X. I'm not 100% certain but with Glocks I believe you would have to buy both a G43, G48, and G43X to have the same effect.
There might be even more modular options within the p320 size vs the p365 size fire control group as well so you could change your pistol size based on your needs at the time i.e. full-size, mid-size, compact all amongst the p320 size fire control group.
Reliability wise I believe they are both very reliable. I have not had any issues yet with only basic maintenance and cleaning after every session. round count each is 1800 G45 and 1200 p365 fired any ammo put thru it federal, pmc bronze, remington umc, fiocchi, blazer, speer lawman, speer gold dot, & some handloads.
For sights, you can always change those to suit your needs/liking.
I see more Glock parts than sig parts on the LGS shelves in regard to small replacement parts.
Glock magazines are much cheaper than sig magazines. OEM Glock mags can be had for $25-30ish, Pmags for Glock $10-12, and the sig magazines are $40-50 each.
Personally I am staying way from the P320s for now because of the issues I've heard/read about Un-commanded/unintentional discharges and sig blames some internal failure whether it be a weakened spring or something else.
If you have funding for a Sig P226, that is definitely a nice tool to fulfill a full-size metal frame pistol, I've seen going around $1500-$1700.
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More specifically a semi-auto "full size" handgun. No mouse guns.
These are the features I desire in the handgun:
Reliability
Good front and rear sights
Longevity (meaning I want a work horse, not a princess)
I originally considered P-320 and Glocks 17 and 19
I'm a novice to semi-autos so I really don't know much about what's out there and would appreciate input, advice, and experiences from the members here.
Most likely than not the gun will be used as a range toy and for recreational shooting.
Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:
Based on that, a Glock 17 is an all around performer, proven, and plenty of aftermarket support. For the sights, you can get a model with night sights. I can always help swap out the sights to any version you choose.
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SNIP
The advantage of being modular definitely goes to the sig because of the serialized part being the fire control group (trigger assembly) and not the grip module (frame). For example, one could buy a standard p365 and later on if a larger XL sized pistol is desired, you can then purchase additional XL size grip module (frame), slide, barrel, recoil spring, and magazine adapter plates and have essentially a micro-compact 365 AND the larger XL size or combine both to get a p365X. I'm not 100% certain but with Glocks I believe you would have to buy both a G43, G48, and G43X to have the same effect.
43 not parts/frame compatible with 48 and 43x. I learned that the hard way when ordering a mag catch for a 43 that was sale. :( There are also other slight variations in dimensions, so stuff like mags not compatible.
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1911
there are cheap ones that may not function too well. and there are ones that cost 2 grand and up that work great. and there are ones that are around $1k-1500 that function great
I really like the new Springfield Operator which goes for around $1k. I have the older Range Officer Operator that has run flawlessly for years. also have a Loaded Operator which has been flawless as well
its hard to beat the SA trigger on a 1911. I've had ones that the trigger is from 2-4 lbs, short and crisp
besides revolvers, I love me some 1911 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
if you don't want a 1911 at this point in time, then from my experience, I would recommend the HK45 or HKP30L. different trigger options for each gun, LEM DA trigger or the DA/SA trigger with decocker and safety or no safety
some people like the trigger, some do not
Glock is good too. a lot of aftermarket parts for Glocks
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Recommend you first settle on a caliber. Since you mentioned P320, G17 and G19, I might deduce you are looking for a 9mm, but I don't want to assume. :geekdanc:
If that's the first criterion -- i.e. 9mm -- then next is budget. You don't have to be specific, but a price range helps narrow the field even more.
Lastly, you need to try a sampling of various brands and models. Personally, I'm a Sig supporter. The ergonomics of their main models really fit my hand and feel more natural than a Block. Having said that, not all Glocks are created equal. I prefer my G17 over my G30 and G26, just on ergonomics alone. The G19 isn't much different than the G17 for feel IMHO. if you aren't experimenting with the Glock removable backstraps to find the best fit for you, you're limiting yourself.
I can't talk bad about a good quality 1911, either. That's the "feel" all other pistols are compared to, because most people I know find a 1911 easy to shoot well -- even in ,45ACP.
If I had to rank order my personally-owned semi-autos (current and past), the list would be:
Sig P226 MK25 9mm
Sig P320 Full Size 9mm
Sig Nightmare 1911 Fastback .45ACP
Glock 17 9mm
Glock 26 9mm
Glock 30 Gen3 .45ACP
I'd rather spend a few hundred more for a Sig I like over any Glock. Just my own experience, of course.
I didn't get into Semi-autos for a very long time. Finally started about 2010. I bought Glocks because I didn't know any better, and Glocks were a better value feature-for-feature compared to many others. When you first start out, you tend to follow the folks who've been doing it for decades.
I know Hickok45 is a HUGE Glock fanboy. His videos helped persuade me to try Glock. After watching him for a few years, I've realized he's never met a firearm he didn't like (unless it malfunctioned on him!).
Striker-fired guns are the standard now as far as I can tell. The simpler design might reduce operator error and potential malfunctions.
If I were to choose a full size for home defense, it's my P226. If I carry a full-size for CCW, it would be the P320. Lighter and striker-fired, and the ergonomics are on par with the P226.
Also, with the P320, you can alter the pistol size (Full, Compact, etc.), caliber, and barrel length by swapping parts with the same registered trigger module. If you want a full size for HD and range practice, get that. Then get a Compact X-Change kit to make it more CCW friendly. If you only need one pistol at a time, it's a real money and "gun law hassle" saver.
Sights are subjective. Many are adopting the Red Dots now. You might want to "future proof" yours by getting one with a RDS cut slide and tall/suppressor-height sights.
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Recommend you first settle on a caliber. Since you mentioned P320, G17 and G19, I might deduce you are looking for a 9mm, but I don't want to assume. :geekdanc:
If that's the first criterion -- i.e. 9mm -- then next is budget. You don't have to be specific, but a price range helps narrow the field even more.
Lastly, you need to try a sampling of various brands and models. Personally, I'm a Sig supporter. The ergonomics of their main models really fit my hand and feel more natural than a Block. Having said that, not all Glocks are created equal. I prefer my G17 over my G30 and G26, just on ergonomics alone. The G19 isn't much different than the G17 for feel IMHO. if you aren't experimenting with the Glock removable backstraps to find the best fit for you, you're limiting yourself.
I can't talk bad about a good quality 1911, either. That's the "feel" all other pistols are compared to, because most people I know find a 1911 easy to shoot well -- even in ,45ACP.
If I had to rank order my personally-owned semi-autos (current and past), the list would be:
Sig P226 MK25 9mm
Sig P320 Full Size 9mm
Sig Nightmare 1911 Fastback .45ACP
Glock 17 9mm
Glock 26 9mm
Glock 30 Gen3 .45ACP
I'd rather spend a few hundred more for a Sig I like over any Glock. Just my own experience, of course.
I didn't get into Semi-autos for a very long time. Finally started about 2010. I bought Glocks because I didn't know any better, and Glocks were a better value feature-for-feature compared to many others. When you first start out, you tend to follow the folks who've been doing it for decades.
I know Hickok45 is a HUGE Glock fanboy. His videos helped persuade me to try Glock. After watching him for a few years, I've realized he's never met a firearm he didn't like (unless if malfunctioned on him!).
Striker-fired guns are the standard now as far as I can tell. The simpler design might reduce operator error and potential malfunctions.
If I were to choose a full size for home defense, it's my P226. If I carry a full-size for CCW, it would be the P320. Lighter and striker-fired, and the ergonomics are on par with the P226.
Also, with the P320, you can alter the pistol size (Full, Compact, etc.), caliber, and barrel length by swapping parts with the same registered trigger module. If you want a full size for HD and range practice, get that. Then get a Compact X-Change kit to make it more CCW friendly. If you only need one pistol at a time, it's a real money and "gun law hassle" saver.
Sights are subjective. Many are adopting the Red Dots now. You might want to "future proof" yours by getting one with a RDS cut slide and tall/suppressor-height sights.
I do like the Sig P series modularity. ability to change grip modules, slides, barrels. like having more than 1 gun size with just 1 gun
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Desert Eagle (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221117/41ccfdb3408cb0317d5a22cd653d8eab.jpg)
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
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Durable, reliable Range toy…1911.
They are fun. And accurate. And they’re .45’s. :D
(Biased opinion of course.)
Come to think of it I wouldn’t mind getting a 1911 in 9mm.
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Durable, reliable Range toy…1911.
They are fun. And accurate. And they’re .45’s. :D
(Biased opinion of course.)
Come to think of it I wouldn’t mind getting a 1911 in 9mm.
I've been thinking of one in 9mm too. :thumbsup:
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Recommend you first settle on a caliber. Since you mentioned P320, G17 and G19, I might deduce you are looking for a 9mm, but I don't want to assume. :geekdanc:
If that's the first criterion -- i.e. 9mm -- then next is budget. You don't have to be specific, but a price range helps narrow the field even more.
Lastly, you need to try a sampling of various brands and models. Personally, I'm a Sig supporter. The ergonomics of their main models really fit my hand and feel more natural than a Block. Having said that, not all Glocks are created equal. I prefer my G17 over my G30 and G26, just on ergonomics alone. The G19 isn't much different than the G17 for feel IMHO. if you aren't experimenting with the Glock removable backstraps to find the best fit for you, you're limiting yourself.
I can't talk bad about a good quality 1911, either. That's the "feel" all other pistols are compared to, because most people I know find a 1911 easy to shoot well -- even in ,45ACP.
If I had to rank order my personally-owned semi-autos (current and past), the list would be:
Sig P226 MK25 9mm
Sig P320 Full Size 9mm
Sig Nightmare 1911 Fastback .45ACP
Glock 17 9mm
Glock 26 9mm
Glock 30 Gen3 .45ACP
I'd rather spend a few hundred more for a Sig I like over any Glock. Just my own experience, of course.
I didn't get into Semi-autos for a very long time. Finally started about 2010. I bought Glocks because I didn't know any better, and Glocks were a better value feature-for-feature compared to many others. When you first start out, you tend to follow the folks who've been doing it for decades.
I know Hickok45 is a HUGE Glock fanboy. His videos helped persuade me to try Glock. After watching him for a few years, I've realized he's never met a firearm he didn't like (unless if malfunctioned on him!).
Striker-fired guns are the standard now as far as I can tell. The simpler design might reduce operator error and potential malfunctions.
If I were to choose a full size for home defense, it's my P226. If I carry a full-size for CCW, it would be the P320. Lighter and striker-fired, and the ergonomics are on par with the P226.
Also, with the P320, you can alter the pistol size (Full, Compact, etc.), caliber, and barrel length by swapping parts with the same registered trigger module. If you want a full size for HD and range practice, get that. Then get a Compact X-Change kit to make it more CCW friendly. If you only need one pistol at a time, it's a real money and "gun law hassle" saver.
Sights are subjective. Many are adopting the Red Dots now. You might want to "future proof" yours by getting one with a RDS cut slide and tall/suppressor-height sights.
Thank you Flapp! :shaka:
Wow. A wealth of information and experience. Yeah, I'm thinking of a 9mm. Also, I'm willing to pay up towards the 1.5K range.
Thanks to all of you for your opinions and experiences. NOW I AM CONSIDERING 1911'S ALSO!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl::rofl:
aletheuo137's Desert Eagle looks awesome! :thumbsup: But I think I'll pass (my wrist hurts just looking at it) ;D
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OP - For your pricy range and open to other than striker fired guns, you can try my 1911 9 mm and CZ SP-01 Shadow Target 2.
Since you’d have to go through the PTA and reg process, might as well get multiple pistols. ;D
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CZ there’s another one.
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The HK P30 series would get my vote. Has great ergonomics, ambi controls and are very reliable. My only gripe is the trigger isn't great, but there are some aftermarket parts you can drop in to mitigate this.
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More specifically a semi-auto "full size" handgun. No mouse guns.
,,,,,
Most likely than not the gun will be used as a range toy and for recreational shooting.
Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:
Magnum Research Desert Eagle. is that "Full Size" enough?
I would recommend a version with the Integral Muzzle Brake. I also recommend the 44 Magnum over the 50AE. JMHO. The 44M is range toy enough, the 50 is just brutal, even with the IMB. and then there's ammo availability. But be advised, the Desert Eagle is finicky on ammo choices, needs to be Full Power loads, not mouse loads. Otherwise you'll spend the day doing malfunction clearing drills.
if you decide after getting the 44M, that you want the 50, it's just a barrel swap and a 50AE-specific mag.
in all seriousness, might be over-the-top. but solidly, definitely in the category of "Range Toy", right? If anything, this is nothing but a Range Toy. Isn't it on your bucket list, too? perfect Christmas present for yourself, go ahead, admit it, you've always wanted one. no shame in that, except for maybe the gold tiger stripes. We're all grown up adults here, well, most of us. Some of us are still trying to figure out what we want to be when we grow up, even those that are retired.
gratuitous motivational pic:
(https://i.imgur.com/8JO6kq9.jpg)
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Glock is always a good option for magazine commonality/availability, and spare/aftermarket parts availability. And just all around reliability. But they are not the most ergonomic of handguns.
Most of my handguns are striker fired. But I think my favorite off the shelf handgun I have tried so far is the CZP10c. It shoots really nice. Has decent controls and the trigger is better than my glocks. And it comes with useable metal luminescent stock sights.
I would recommend CZP10c for mid size and CZp10f for dull size if you want to go striker fired route.
And I have also shot, but do not own CZ shadow 2’s and they are really nice full size, but will cost you more $ and are hammer fired. And the basic hammer fired models for CZ are also a good option from what I hear.
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More specifically a semi-auto "full size" handgun. No mouse guns.
These are the features I desire in the handgun:
Reliability
Good front and rear sights
Longevity (meaning I want a work horse, not a princess)
I originally considered P-320 and Glocks 17 and 19
I'm a novice to semi-autos so I really don't know much about what's out there and would appreciate input, advice, and experiences from the members here.
Most likely than not the gun will be used as a range toy and for recreational shooting.
Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:
Sig P320, G17, G19: those are solid choices.
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OP - For your pricy range and open to other than striker fired guns, you can try my 1911 9 mm and CZ SP-01 Shadow Target 2.
Since you’d have to go through the PTA and reg process, might as well get multiple pistols. ;D
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I remember when I took the Handgun safety certification course that one needs to get a handgun. The instructor had a whole bunch of different handguns and one of them was a 9mm 1911 but I forgot what brand gun it was.
I liked shooting it. It wasn't as snappy as the others, but to be fair some of the others were more compact pistols, I know one of them was the G43 but don't know what configuration.
Too bad the range is closed. Would love to try your pistols. :shaka:
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Magnum Research Desert Eagle. is that "Full Size" enough?
I would recommend a version with the Integral Muzzle Brake. I also recommend the 44 Magnum over the 50AE. JMHO. The 44M is range toy enough, the 50 is just brutal, even with the IMB. and then there's ammo availability. But be advised, the Desert Eagle is finicky on ammo choices, needs to be Full Power loads, not mouse loads. Otherwise you'll spend the day doing malfunction clearing drills.
if you decide after getting the 44M, that you want the 50, it's just a barrel swap and a 50AE-specific mag.
in all seriousness, might be over-the-top. but solidly, definitely in the category of "Range Toy", right? If anything, this is nothing but a Range Toy. Isn't it on your bucket list, too? perfect Christmas present for yourself, go ahead, admit it, you've always wanted one. no shame in that, except for maybe the gold tiger stripes. We're all grown up adults here, well, most of us. Some of us are still trying to figure out what we want to be when we grow up, even those that are retired.
gratuitous motivational pic:
(https://i.imgur.com/8JO6kq9.jpg)
One never should say never....... ;D I do have a .44 magnum revolver and a hunk of .44 ammo laying in the safe...... :geekdanc:
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Damn.....with all of you guys' great suggestions, my research got larger and longer! :thumbsup:
That's ok. Range is closed. Gives me time to make that difficult decision.
Or two.
Or three.....
1.5K budget be damned...... :rofl:
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A Glock is your Toyota Tacoma of handguns. Reliable. Lots of parts. Easy to work on. Goes 'bang' when you press the gas. No frills, unless you want them.
19/2011's are always popular if you want to spend money. Sig's I can't endorse, just like Barretta because of high parallax. That's just my preference or lack thereof.
I recommended a Glock 17 to my dad because he's not experienced with guns, and I mention this because you said you're not experienced with semi-autos. There's really nothing complex to manipulate with a Glock so you can develop a focus on safety and aim, whereas with a 19/2011 you'll have to worry about the manual safety, hammer position, and possibly carrying with one in the chamber alongside all those things. If you have larger hands, a G17 or at least a permutation of a Glock with a G17 full-size lower would be my recommendation. Once you've got the whole inserting/dropping the mag, racking/releasing the slide, you've got the baseline for any semi-auto, and from there, you'd just have to worry about manual safety's and hammers in guns that have them.
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GLOCK 19 TRUMP THREADED BARREL 9MM PISTOL, BURNT BRONZE - PI19502T
DETAILS
Manufacturer: Glock
Product Line: Compact
Caliber: 9mm
Barrel Length: 4.01"
Weight: 30.1 oz
Capacity: 15+1
Magazines Included: 2
Finish: Flat Dark Earth
FEATURES
Glock's G19 standard compact pistol is versatile due to its reduced dimensions when compared with the standard-sized option. The 9mm G19 has found worldwide acclaim with both private and public security agencies. In addition to its use as a conventional service pistol, it is ideal for concealed carry or a backup weapon.
$749.99(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221117/d2c57b48a3af5709daf5bc2b2766f67c.jpg)
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
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This is what you want :shaka:
https://youtu.be/QaGrjrc-LTs
https://youtu.be/fr_AUvqdwuI
https://youtu.be/pIFs998tDh0
https://youtu.be/Ze6lyRmSaK8
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I was looking into Staccatos recently. Made the mistake of shooting a Staccato XC (top of the line model) with RDS. Damn that is an impressive gun, with an impressive price tag. Got me looking into the rest of the Staccato line as well. A shooting buddy brought a C model to the range a while back, but I never shot it. Doing more research on 2011s, including Prodigy and others like Bul Armory seems like they get mixed reviews on some basic things like magazines. There are a few videos out there on some common "cautions" with 2011s, including some similar feedback/cautions with 1911s. I am still interested in a Staccato, but focusing on gearing up for a pistol class next spring. So maybe after that.
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I remember when I took the Handgun safety certification course that one needs to get a handgun. The instructor had a whole bunch of different handguns and one of them was a 9mm 1911 but I forgot what brand gun it was.
I liked shooting it. It wasn't as snappy as the others, but to be fair some of the others were more compact pistols, I know one of them was the G43 but don't know what configuration.
Too bad the range is closed. Would love to try your pistols. :shaka:
Yup. Many handgun courses offer variety of pistols to try. To me, that's a valuable facet of that forced Hawaii requirement.
Any time you're ready, let me know.
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More specifically a semi-auto "full size" handgun. No mouse guns.
These are the features I desire in the handgun:
Reliability
Good front and rear sights
Longevity (meaning I want a work horse, not a princess)
I originally considered P-320 and Glocks 17 and 19
I'm a novice to semi-autos so I really don't know much about what's out there and would appreciate input, advice, and experiences from the members here.
Most likely than not the gun will be used as a range toy and for recreational shooting.
Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:
Ruger.
or M1911A1
I'm a cheap bastard.
:wacko:
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1911
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If you're looking for one workhorse gun that will last you a while, then a striker fired 9mm is what you want. Glock 17 or Sig 320 are the most popular, and will be overall cheaper with the cost of the gun, plus accessories like magazines and used holsters are plentiful at cheaper prices than other brands. There are guns that are slightly better like HKs and Walthers, but they will cost you more in exchange.
A mid-size gun like a Glock 19 would allow you to CCW the same gun with a minimal loss in accuracy and capacity. As Flapp pointed out, you should get a slide cut for optics as they are a game changer in handguns. Get the cut even if you don't plan on using optics now as eventually you will.
1911's and Deagles are nice, but they have a specific purpose and tradeoffs. 1911s can be very accurate, but the tradeoff is speed, reliability, and cost. Good if you want to enter precision shooting competitions. Deagles are good guns in higher magnum calibers, but I don't see the point in standard calibers unless you have bear sized hands. I would consider these as your 3rd or 4th guns to purchase, after you get a 22lr and CCW gun.
Allocate your money to ammo and training instead of getting an expensive gun and accessories.
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If you're looking for one workhorse gun that will last you a while, then a striker fired 9mm is what you want. Glock 17 or Sig 320 are the most popular, and will be overall cheaper with the cost of the gun, plus accessories like magazines and used holsters are plentiful at cheaper prices than other brands. There are guns that are slightly better like HKs and Walthers, but they will cost you more in exchange.
A mid-size gun like a Glock 19 would allow you to CCW the same gun with a minimal loss in accuracy and capacity. As Flapp pointed out, you should get a slide cut for optics as they are a game changer in handguns. Get the cut even if you don't plan on using optics now as eventually you will.
1911's and Deagles are nice, but they have a specific purpose and tradeoffs. 1911s can be very accurate, but the tradeoff is speed, reliability, and cost. Good if you want to enter precision shooting competitions. Deagles are good guns in higher magnum calibers, but I don't see the point in standard calibers unless you have bear sized hands. I would consider these as your 3rd or 4th guns to purchase, after you get a 22lr and CCW gun.
Allocate your money to ammo and training instead of getting an expensive gun and accessories.
Good advice. Thank you. Durability and reliability is on my mind. Competition, no. Just want to have fun and pew pew boom boom all day long.
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I was looking into Staccatos recently. Made the mistake of shooting a Staccato XC (top of the line model) with RDS. Damn that is an impressive gun, with an impressive price tag. Got me looking into the rest of the Staccato line as well. A shooting buddy brought a C model to the range a while back, but I never shot it. Doing more research on 2011s, including Prodigy and others like Bul Armory seems like they get mixed reviews on some basic things like magazines. There are a few videos out there on some common "cautions" with 2011s, including some similar feedback/cautions with 1911s. I am still interested in a Staccato, but focusing on gearing up for a pistol class next spring. So maybe after that.
Since I know your taste in guns, you should go with the Staccato line. Prodigy would be for pake people like me. Which I was actually looking into pre range shut down. You are correct about the mag issues.
Mrs. CMO still wants her Combat Master 2011 (not sand viper).
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Good advice. Thank you. Durability and reliability is on my mind. Competition, no. Just want to have fun and pew pew boom boom all day long.
If you want a fun pew pew gun, I think a plain Jane G17 would get boring. You would have to Gucci it out. A p320 would be slightly cooler to shoot than a OEM G17 or G19.
What is your budget?
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I've never shot one of these but the 22TCM looks like a fun round to shoot. Can also shoot 9mm
I've shot a different RIA 1911 a couple times briefly, so I can't really speak of their reliability. They are on the more affordable side of 1911's
https://youtu.be/KYKE1NthxKM
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If you want a fun pew pew gun, I think a plain Jane G17 would get boring. You would have to Gucci it out. A p320 would be slightly cooler to shoot than a OEM G17 or G19.
What is your budget?
I would be willing to spend up to 1.5K or so. I wouldn't mind getting a couple of pistols, each within the $700-$900 range.
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I would be willing to spend up to 1.5K or so. I wouldn't mind getting a couple of pistols, each within the $700-$900 range.
What would be a fun pew pew is a P320 platform. You can build one to your liking for a reasonable price. They have a lot of various models and with HI's BS laws, you can have 1 FCU for various sizes. So you can go from full size to compact (CCW) without having to go thru the buying a new gun process. Plus you could Gucci this as well to your liking.
Another fun gun would be the 1911/2011 platform. So many options, do what you feel you will have fun with.
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What would be a fun pew pew is a P320 platform. You can build one to your liking for a reasonable price. They have a lot of various models and with HI's BS laws, you can have 1 FCU for various sizes. So you can go from full size to compact (CCW) without having to go thru the buying a new gun process. Plus you could Gucci this as well to your liking.
Another fun gun would be the 1911/2011 platform. So many options, do what you feel you will have fun with.
So much great guns out there, glad all of you share valuable input so I don't have to worry too much, as all of you sharing experiences and information enables me to make a better choice.
I do like the P320 and it's modular configurations. It sure looks like I'll possibly buy both a striker and a 1911 platform range gun.
Thanks for your input. :shaka:
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I've never shot one of these but the 22TCM looks like a fun round to shoot. Can also shoot 9mm
I've shot a different RIA 1911 a couple times briefly, so I can't really speak of their reliability. They are on the more affordable side of 1911's
https://youtu.be/KYKE1NthxKM
Are these the "Filipino" guns? ;) Maybe I should get one. I'm Pilipino. ;D
They certainly look durable and tough like tanks. :thumbsup:
edited to add: I've never heard of 22 TCM until now. They look awesome! Thanks for sharing this. :thumbsup:
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Are these the "Filipino" guns? ;) Maybe I should get one. I'm Pilipino. ;D
They certainly look durable and tough like tanks. :thumbsup:
edited to add: I've never heard of 22 TCM until now. They look awesome! Thanks for sharing this. :thumbsup:
Yes. They are the Filipino 1911's. They do make a lot of 1911's. It ain't no wilson combat or Nighthawk Custom, that's for sure. I cant vouch for their reliability bc I never owned one. But for your price range you could get this one and another pistol in the 700 range and still be in your budget. I would think the Springfield Operator or Prodogy are better guns
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It sure looks like I'll possibly buy both a striker and a 1911 platform range gun.
Thanks for your input. :shaka:
Check out my 1911 thread.
Bacially, I've always wanted one since I have an interest in WW2. But then realized why buy a OG 1911 and not a more modern one. My 1911 is my 2nd pistol. I wanted to have basic fundamentals first and spend money on ammo and training before buying another handgun. So once I felt I was at that point, I jumped in.
I wanted a 1911 that looks tacticool. So your Dan Wesson or other silver type with wood grips was not an option. The SIG Scorpion was the #1 contender due to price and tacticool factor until I saw the M45A1. I wanted a 45ACP so 2011's were not an option either. Springfield Range Officer was a 2nd option as it looks tacticool too. My budget was $1500 and the Scorpion was well under that. Then due to COVID pricing, things went up. Luckily, so did my income. So I spent $2700 on my M45A1 via Gunbroker since Colt ceased production on it.
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Since I know your taste in guns, you should go with the Staccato line. Prodigy would be for pake people like me. Which I was actually looking into pre range shut down. You are correct about the mag issues.
Mrs. CMO still wants her Combat Master 2011 (not sand viper).
Not going to lie, a Staccato XC is super tempting and I shot it really well (couple mags). It's definitely a fun gun. I'm not a big fan of 1911/2011s.
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Check out my 1911 thread.
Bacially, I've always wanted one since I have an interest in WW2. But then realized why buy a OG 1911 and not a more modern one. My 1911 is my 2nd pistol. I wanted to have basic fundamentals first and spend money on ammo and training before buying another handgun. So once I felt I was at that point, I jumped in.
I wanted a 1911 that looks tacticool. So your Dan Wesson or other silver type with wood grips was not an option. The SIG Scorpion was the #1 contender due to price and tacticool factor until I saw the M45A1. I wanted a 45ACP so 2011's were not an option either. Springfield Range Officer was a 2nd option as it looks tacticool too. My budget was $1500 and the Scorpion was well under that. Then due to COVID pricing, things went up. Luckily, so did my income. So I spent $2700 on my M45A1 via Gunbroker since Colt ceased production on it.
I'll check out your 1911 thread. Thanks! :shaka:
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I'm not a big fan of 1911/2011s.
Not yet...
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I'll check out your 1911 thread. Thanks! :shaka:
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=41076.0
It's funny that I could have actually bought a MK23 and still saved some $. Read the first paragraph about it.
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More specifically a semi-auto "full size" handgun. No mouse guns.
These are the features I desire in the handgun:
Reliability
Good front and rear sights
Longevity (meaning I want a work horse, not a princess)
I originally considered P-320 and Glocks 17 and 19
I'm a novice to semi-autos so I really don't know much about what's out there and would appreciate input, advice, and experiences from the members here.
Most likely than not the gun will be used as a range toy and for recreational shooting.
Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:
wow, only now you're getting started with semi-auto pistols? kinda late, eh? The 1911's been around since, well, 1911. but, better late than never!
(https://i.imgur.com/Z6S0o7R.png)
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wow, only now you're getting started with semi-auto pistols? kinda late, eh? The 1911's been around since, well, 1911. but, better late than never!
(https://i.imgur.com/Z6S0o7R.png)
Yeah, I've been known to be a Johnny come Lately. :rofl:
Was a revolver man since 1980. Between then and 3 years ago my firearms were on the backburner. Family and job came first. Now I retired and I like have fun.
But they close the range gunnfunnit. :grrr:
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This is what you want :
https://youtu.be/Ze6lyRmSaK8
That is now what I want. :D :shaka:
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That is now what I want. :D :shaka:
That’s what you want only if you intend to invest maybe another grand into it to make it run like you would expect. If you’re eyeing a prodigy I would say invest a little more and get a staccato cause those run out of the box like a dream.
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I think the thing to ask yourself is what you value more accuracy or durability. For a range toy I’m assuming that accuracy is paramount and I wouldn’t look anywhere other than a 1911 or 2011. I have invested in a Glock 34 that has been modded to shoot as good as a Glock could ever and it does shoot really good…but in my opinion it’s no comparison to the 1911 platform which is why I’m considering getting rid of everything but the 1911/2011s.
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1911 'Merica
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That’s what you want only if you intend to invest maybe another grand into it to make it run like you would expect. If you’re eyeing a prodigy I would say invest a little more and get a staccato cause those run out of the box like a dream.
What's the problem with the Prodigy?
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What's the problem with the Prodigy?
Found a few problems.
https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/prodigy-issues.12603/
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Found a few problems.
https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/prodigy-issues.12603/
The ‘Fix’ for the Springfield Prodigy’s Feeding
Problems Appears to Be New Magazines
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/the-fix-for-the-springfield-prodigys-feeding-problems-appears-to-be-new-magazines-video/
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What's the problem with the Prodigy?
There’s actually quite a few issues with the prodigy that are all over the internet. Check out YouTube as well. Mostly lite strikes, failure to feed failure to extract. I also saw one post saying the slide was machined wrong causing it to lock up on the frame. Again I have nothing against Springfield but I would rather invest a few hundred more and get a superior gun. They can all be solved but will take additional investment into the pistol. I think the smarter buy would be a staccato P but to each their own.
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There’s actually quite a few issues with the prodigy that are all over the internet. Check out YouTube as well. Mostly lite strikes, failure to feed failure to extract. I also saw one post saying the slide was machined wrong causing it to lock up on the frame. Again I have nothing against Springfield but I would rather invest a few hundred more and get a superior gun. They can all be solved but will take additional investment into the pistol. I think the smarter buy would be a staccato P but to each their own.
Yes, I saw those other problems now
Seems like they need to get those problems worked out
I have 3 Springfield 1911's that run flawlessly but they were already in production for many years by the time I got them
Maybe like a first year production car might have some recalls on some parts
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Check out my 1911 thread.
Bacially, I've always wanted one since I have an interest in WW2. But then realized why buy a OG 1911 and not a more modern one. My 1911 is my 2nd pistol. I wanted to have basic fundamentals first and spend money on ammo and training before buying another handgun. So once I felt I was at that point, I jumped in.
I wanted a 1911 that looks tacticool. So your Dan Wesson or other silver type with wood grips was not an option. The SIG Scorpion was the #1 contender due to price and tacticool factor until I saw the M45A1. I wanted a 45ACP so 2011's were not an option either. Springfield Range Officer was a 2nd option as it looks tacticool too. My budget was $1500 and the Scorpion was well under that. Then due to COVID pricing, things went up. Luckily, so did my income. So I spent $2700 on my M45A1 via Gunbroker since Colt ceased production on it.
I recently acquired my grand pappy's m1911, the one he was issued as a pilot in WW I.
Gee I didn't have to ask the government for permission.
Something most Hawaiian citizens would not understand.
Works Good.
110 Plus years old, barely used.
:thumbsup:
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Yes, I saw those other problems now
Seems like they need to get those problems worked out
I have 3 Springfield 1911's that run flawlessly but they were already in production for many years by the time I got them
Maybe like a first year production car might have some recalls on some parts
Yeah I feel pretty confident that they will have the flaws worked out after a little more time in production. It’s still a really new pistol design and I know they are working on a special edition with Ronin tactics that’s supposed to be pretty unreal. I saw that one first hand in action and it ran perfect but then again that was a $5k plus pistol.
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If you’re looking for a “range toy” then the CZs are fun and relatively easy to shoot. I got the Shadow 2 Orange and personally I’m much more accurate with that vs my Sigs. I also think my 1911s are on par with the CZs as far as my accuracy. Hopefully Koko head opens up sometime in 2023 and we start shooting again.
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If you’re looking for a “range toy” then the CZs are fun and relatively easy to shoot. I got the Shadow 2 Orange and personally I’m much more accurate with that vs my Sigs. I also think my 1911s are on par with the CZs as far as my accuracy. Hopefully Koko head opens up sometime in 2023 and we start shooting again.
"Hopefully Koko head opens up sometime in 2023 and we start shooting again."
In your dreams.
Better start out doing it Big Island style.
:shaka:
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what if the Filipino 1911 functions more reliably than the Prodigy? :crazy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG-MLNefP3E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JQRfUytfyQ
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If you’re looking for a “range toy” then the CZs are fun and relatively easy to shoot. I got the Shadow 2 Orange and personally I’m much more accurate with that vs my Sigs. I also think my 1911s are on par with the CZs as far as my accuracy. Hopefully Koko head opens up sometime in 2023 and we start shooting again.
I am hoping it opens soon also. :shaka:
Really appreciate all the input. Pretty intimidating. I want to be happy with my choice but there seems to be tons of great guns out there.
What really scares me is members posts about guns costing more than 2K but still fall short on reliability factor and workmanship.
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I give the Prodigy a little leeway since it's a gen 1 model. I expect problems with a 1st gen gun. Same goes with a gen 1 car.
CZ's are also fun if you look at the Shadow line. But these will be maxing out your budget. Mrs. CMO just picked up a Shadow 2 and is much more accurate with it than any of her striker fired guns. Like on steel at about 20 yards, she got 9 of 10 hits. The steel size is like watermelon. Then she immediately shot her P10C (striker fired) and got only 4-5 of 10 hits.
Since the main range is closed, you got lots of time to decide. Also a factor is what you can get your hands on. DCT was able to bring in a 40cal Shadow 2 in like 1-2 weeks. Compared to asking about a P365XL, he had no ETA and could not order it. it arrives when it arrives due to the high nationwide demand. SEC had 3 on the shelf in stock. I asked them when they're getting more since we didn't want the one that comes with the Romeo Zero RDS and we were told the same thing. They come when they come due to high demand. So unknown when the non RDS model will arrive. Young Guns only had the model that has the manual safety and same with them, it comes in when it comes in.
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I give the Prodigy a little leeway since it's a gen 1 model. I expect problems with a 1st gen gun. Same goes with a gen 1 car.
That's true, but it comes down to the severity of the problem.
If it's an annoyance, such as the Glock Gen 4 9mm extractor that randomly ejected hot brass into the user's face, then the issue is not critical. At some point, Glock started using a new part number for their 9mm extractors. If you complained, they would have you send it in, and they swapped out all the parts that involved empty cartridge extraction. I wound up just buying a drop-in trigger upgrade, which used all new, polished OEM parts. Problem solved.
However, if you have FTF, jams, light primer strikes, or any of a number of safety failures/issues, I consider these critical and deserving of a repair or replacement by the manufacturer at their expense. Anything that interferes with the function of the firearm to chamber, fire and eject each round as expected makes the gun untrustworthy.
I know that last part is a "duh" for most here, but the point is to keep the severity of the problems with new production models in mind. Lots of overreactions on the Web when people find ANY issues with the design, manufacturing or testing process. The #1 thing people say is, "If I'm spending this much for a firearm, I expect there to be no problems out of the box." In today's manufacturing environment, is that a realistic expectation? Can every gun maker test and identify every possible defect on every single gun sold before they ship?
No matter the product, there is always a certain degree of expected design and production "errors" anticipated. They make enough spare parts ahead of time to handle those expected errors. As time goes on, the number of defective guns diminishes, as does the cost of customer returns. No process is perfect. QA is applied only to the point where the cost doesn't exceed the benefit it offers.
Anyway, manage your expectations, anticipate unforeseen problems with all new models (and even new gens of old models), and if you don't trust the thing to be reliable, sell it and move on to something else.
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I give the Prodigy a little leeway since it's a gen 1 model. I expect problems with a 1st gen gun. Same goes with a gen 1 car.
CZ's are also fun if you look at the Shadow line. But these will be maxing out your budget. Mrs. CMO just picked up a Shadow 2 and is much more accurate with it than any of her striker fired guns. Like on steel at about 20 yards, she got 9 of 10 hits. The steel size is like watermelon. Then she immediately shot her P10C (striker fired) and got only 4-5 of 10 hits.
SNIP
Be careful of basing evaluation on back to back with vastly different trigger types. Try shooting P10C cold and then the Shadow.
From personal experience, I have noticed that I need to "reset" between guns. Particularly between my CZ SP-01 Shadow and any striker fired gun. Sort of like cleansing your palate when doing food or drink tasting.
When I tried the Staccato XC, I had been shooting one of my Gucci Glocks and was shooting it pretty well. Shot my 17 with a good trigger after the Staccato and was like "WTF is this?" ;D
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i got the comment, "stop letting off the trigger so far, it's not a Glock!"
Be careful of basing evaluation on back to back with vastly different trigger types. Try shooting P10C cold and then the Shadow.
From personal experience, I have noticed that I need to "reset" between guns. Particularly between my CZ SP-01 Shadow and any striker fired gun. Sort of like cleansing your palate when doing food or drink tasting.
When I tried the Staccato XC, I had been shooting one of my Gucci Glocks and was shooting it pretty well. Shot my 17 with a good trigger after the Staccato and was like "WTF is this?" ;D
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i got the comment, "stop letting off the trigger so far, it's not a Glock!"
Must have been from someone who doesn't know you. Or they would have said "it's not a HK".
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SNIP
No matter the product, there is always a certain degree of expected design and production "errors" anticipated. They make enough spare parts ahead of time to handle those expected errors. As time goes on, the number of defective guns diminishes, as does the cost of customer returns. No process is perfect. QA is applied only to the point where the cost doesn't exceed the benefit it offers.
There are also some quirks of certain firearms that some don't appreciate, or fans accept or look past. Like the magazine issues with 2011s.
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i got the comment, "stop letting off the trigger so far, it's not a Glock!"
#doyouknowwhoyouretalkingto
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i'm surprised he never scold me for flinching with the flattest shooting gun i ever shot...
#doyouknowwhoyouretalkingto
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never shot one of these but I've always wanted a P220 in 45acp or a P226 in 9mm
this X5 made in USA is new
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Waa6g8oM6LU
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i got the comment, "stop letting off the trigger so far, it's not a Glock!"
from #IF'nHateGlocksSinceOne BitMe
:stopjack:
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https://youtu.be/3nmpxu4PJTU
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https://youtu.be/3nmpxu4PJTU
This is now what I want :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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This is now what I want :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I don't know about the SAO.
My P226 MK25 Navy Seal version has the DA/SA trigger. No need to keep it in Condition 1, which is why there's no manual safety. Point and click! :geekdanc:
1911s have 3 safeties: mechanical safety, hammer uncocked, and grip "squeeze" lever. Together they make carrying Condition 1 relatively safer than other hammer-fired guns with just the mechanical safety.
The review kind of brushes this issue off as a "if you aren't used to it or grew up in a Glock world," implying it's a simple training and familiarity problem. If that were true, the safeties for the 1911 would have been redesigned long ago. Mechanical safeties are a 50/50 proposition. They can fail (can't unlock it to fire, or it doesn't prevent firing when it should), plus operator errors happen ("I thought the safety was on!"). Without a trigger or grip safety lever, you're trusting the mechanical safety to protect you 100% when in Condition 1.
I get that the DA trigger pull on the first round has a greater chance of being less accurate, but I don't see it as a real show stopper. I used mine in the MPPL competitions, and I never had an issue hitting the target with the first round. If anything, the 1/2 second longer it took to squeeze the trigger gave me time to line up the sights. if you're yanking the trigger first pull, you're doing it wrong.
Also, the trigger looks similar to my upgraded Sig P320 with the flat design. I kind of like my P226 stock trigger better. It's the Navy Seal version, therefore many internal parts are coated like the exterior to resist rusting.
Visually, it's a nicer looking piece than my MK25, but I do think the lack of DA is a mistake. Why couldn't they make it DA/SA AND include the manual safety, too? Why is it either/or? Lots of examples on the market of DA/SA Hammer-fired semi-autos with manual safeties.
I'll stick with what I have -- for now at least.
:thumbsup: :shaka:
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I don't know about the SAO.
My P226 MK25 Navy Seal version has the DA/SA trigger. No need to keep it in Condition 1, which is why there's no manual safety. Point and click! :geekdanc:
1911s have 3 safeties: mechanical safety, hammer uncocked, and grip "squeeze" lever. Together they make carrying Condition 1 relatively safer than other hammer-fired guns with just the mechanical safety.
The review kind of brushes this issue off as a "if you aren't used to it or grew up in a Glock world," implying it's a simple training and familiarity problem. If that were true, the safeties for the 1911 would have been redesigned long ago. Mechanical safeties are a 50/50 proposition. They can fail (can't unlock it to fire, or it doesn't prevent firing when it should), plus operator errors happen ("I thought the safety was on!"). Without a trigger or grip safety lever, you're trusting the mechanical safety to protect you 100% when in Condition 1.
I get that the DA trigger pull on the first round has a greater chance of being less accurate, but I don't see it as a real show stopper. I used mine in the MPPL competitions, and I never had an issue hitting the target with the first round. If anything, the 1/2 second longer it took to squeeze the trigger gave me time to line up the sights. if you're yanking the trigger first pull, you're doing it wrong.
Also, the trigger looks similar to my upgraded Sig P320 with the flat design. I kind of like my P226 stock trigger better. It's the Navy Seal version, therefore many internal parts are coated like the exterior to resist rusting.
Visually, it's a nicer looking piece than my MK25, but I do think the lack of DA is a mistake. Why couldn't they make it DA/SA AND include the manual safety, too? Why is it either/or? Lots of examples on the market of DA/SA Hammer-fired semi-autos with manual safeties.
I'll stick with what I have -- for now at least.
:thumbsup: :shaka:
I agree, a DA/SA would be nice. I'm used to a 1911 style of SA with the safety, so that's why it appeals to me. But the DA version is nice too 🤙
Solid pistol either way
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https://youtu.be/grL7Rm3dJxk
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Just to add more confusion. First there are wonderful suggestions and advice on this thread. Kudos.
Do you imagine just going to the range plinking targets, going home, maybe cleaning and putting away your firearm? Do you like trying to make one hole in a paper target? Do you like to figure out how things work, a tinkerer? Do you get satisfaction from your own creations?
plain jane reliable, G17
like to modify and add things, I'd say Glock again, or Glock clones
Like the mechanical aspect? PSA Dagger, Polymer 80 serialized build kit, or other glock clone kits.
Accuracy, well can't help here, for me my skills are the limiting factor, not the firearm.
That being said, I have had Glock , polymer 80, Ruger, Canik, Gerson, Sarsilmaz PSA, and Taurus. I do feel the Canik SFX9 in most forms is an incredible pistol, and find I am considerably more accurate than the Glock platform ,For me. My newest toy before the range closed is a Taurus 22LR. If you want to have fun and not blow loads of money .
That being said, since you mentioned a Range toy, I would say look for the " Best bang for the buck" pistols, and get a 22 pistol. Awesome plinkers.
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Just to add more confusion. First there are wonderful suggestions and advice on this thread. Kudos.
Do you imagine just going to the range plinking targets, going home, maybe cleaning and putting away your firearm? Do you like trying to make one hole in a paper target? Do you like to figure out how things work, a tinkerer? Do you get satisfaction from your own creations?
plain jane reliable, G17
like to modify and add things, I'd say Glock again, or Glock clones
Like the mechanical aspect? PSA Dagger, Polymer 80 serialized build kit, or other glock clone kits.
Accuracy, well can't help here, for me my skills are the limiting factor, not the firearm.
That being said, I have had Glock , polymer 80, Ruger, Canik, Gerson, Sarsilmaz PSA, and Taurus. I do feel the Canik SFX9 in most forms is an incredible pistol, and find I am considerably more accurate than the Glock platform ,For me. My newest toy before the range closed is a Taurus 22LR. If you want to have fun and not blow loads of money .
That being said, since you mentioned a Range toy, I would say look for the " Best bang for the buck" pistols, and get a 22 pistol. Awesome plinkers.
I love playing with .22 LR. ;D
I have a cowboy pistol SA 22LR that I've had for 43 years. Just recently bought a Walther P22 that, besides all the hoopla of it being finicky, the only thing that bothers this toy is that you gotta use high velocity rounds or it gets.......finicky. Mini-Mags and the like: No problem. Love shooting them. :thumbsup:
Not sure if I would go down the rabbit hole of accessories, RDS, lights, etc. Well, maybe lights. Then again, maybe not.
Just a range toy that goes bang every time and is fairly accurate. A gun that shoots better than me and as tough as a tank.
Hope the range opens soon. I'm not young. Wanna get a bunch of sh*ts and giggles in while I still can.