2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cain57 on November 19, 2022, 04:23:28 PM
-
So what’s your thoughts on the revised proficiency test. It seems much easier than the one had originally.
The shooting proficiency for all other applicants shall be as follows, for which the applicant shall attain a minimum score of 75 out ofa possible 125 points:
Three-yard line: 2 rounds in 6 seconds from the applicant's holster; three times (6 rounds / 4 second draw - 2 second split).
(In)
(iv) (V)
Five-yard line: 2 rounds in 6 seconds from the applicant's holster; two times (4 rounds / 4 second draw - 2 second split).
Seven-yard line: 5rounds in 13 seconds from the applicant's holster; onetime (5 rounds / 4 second draw - 2.25 second split).
Ten-yard line: 5 rounds i n 15 seconds from the applicant's holster; one time (5 rounds / 4 second draw - 2.75 secondsplit). Fifteen-yard line: 5 rounds in 20 seconds from the applicant's holster; one time (5 rounds / 4 second draw - 4 second split).
-
Where is this revised proficiency test posted? I checked HPD website and I didn’t see any update to Rules.
-
Where is this revised proficiency test posted? I checked HPD website and I didn’t see any update to Rules.
https://www.honolulupd.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Chapter-15-of-the-Rules-of-the-Chief-of-Police-1.pdf
Page 8 (9th page including title page)
:shaka:
-
I’m wondering where the general public is supposed to train for these requirements. Without spending a fortune on indoor range fees.
-
I’m wondering where the general public is supposed to train for these requirements. Without spending a fortune on indoor range fees.
"Supposed?" That assumes they expect ANYONE to pass the test ever.
There are no certified trainers, the public range is closed, and even if the range opens, are there going to be enough trained RSOs willing to return to run it?
(https://i.imgur.com/SGBoCoI.jpg?1)
-
Jump through all of these hoops and find out there is no place to CCW legally.
Looks like this will be the reality.
-
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fsteemitimages.com%2F0x0%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fsteemitimages.com%2FDQmVWuNtV27wcRaArCX8bWqLzP6VaZ3CqA3buPdnSeSLM1d%2F03-02k-pigflag.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=177c92ea5f801202dd6652783642c683bf5a7856bc1c5f8ccbe7cd8632f185a6&ipo=images)
-
I'm over it. The heck with these infringements on our constitutional rights just ruled on by SCOTUS.
-
I'm over it. The heck with these infringements on our constitutional rights just ruled on by SCOTUS.
(https://i.imgur.com/3ol1It8.png)
Catalina wine mixer?
so this is why some folks are driven to the Ainokea Carry?
-
This morning HNN reported that Chief Logan said these "rules" will ensure that "inexperienced" gun owners are vetted out of the CCW process.
I'm not sure how everyone who supports 2a feels about this, but I for one feel this is total Bullsh*t.
Very few people are "experienced" in shooting people in self defense.
Not to mention they are not giving the law abiding citizen the benefit of the doubt that they will continue to train and be responsible gun owners.
Of course they shouldn't fault us if there is no place to train...... ::)
-
This morning HNN reported that Chief Logan said these "rules" will ensure that "inexperienced" gun owners are vetted out of the CCW process.
I'm not sure how everyone who supports 2a feels about this, but I for one feel this is total Bullsh*t.
Very few people are "experienced" in shooting people in self defense.
Not to mention they are not giving the law abiding citizen the benefit of the doubt that they will continue to train and be responsible gun owners.
Of course they shouldn't fault us if there is no place to train...... ::)
somewhere in there is an idea for a comment about all the stabbings, folks that carry a knife for SD and general utility, and must be they're not "inexperienced" stabbers since that's not regulated or controlled. oh wait, did they try to regulate knives in London, UK? ???
-
Does anyone know how the points are calculated? I assume that 125 possible points with 25 rounds means 5 points possible per round but are partial points possible?
-
The "approved" individual administering the test is the biggest hurdle.
As far as the test itself, the rules didn't specify which "NRA certified target". Or at least I didn't see it. Assuming it's one of the B27-B29 series, seems like they have a typo or someone envisioned the scoring in a strange way. A$$ume the scoring is max 9 per shot on B29 and max total should be 126. Can't figure out a different logical method.
There's a good video I saw recently (I think ASP) on why the B29 for context of defensive training isn't a good idea. The IPSC/USPSA target is a good metric and "unofficially" I am sure a good "approved" instructor could figure something out. ;)
-
The "approved" individual administering the test is the biggest hurdle.
As far as the test itself, the rules didn't specify which "NRA certified target". Or at least I didn't see it. Assuming it's one of the B27-B29 series, seems like they have a typo or someone envisioned the scoring in a strange way. A$$ume the scoring is max 9 per shot on B29 and max total should be 126. Can't figure out a different logical method.
There's a good video I saw recently (I think ASP) on why the B29 for context of defensive training isn't a good idea. The IPSC/USPSA target is a good metric and "unofficially" I am sure a good "approved" instructor could figure something out. ;)
Since it's 25rds required, I was looking at 5pts for 10 ring, 4.5 for 9 ring,etc... So divide score by 2.
-
This morning HNN reported that Chief Logan said these "rules" will ensure that "inexperienced" gun owners are vetted out of the CCW process.
I'm not sure how everyone who supports 2a feels about this, but I for one feel this is total Bullsh*t.
Very few people are "experienced" in shooting people in self defense.
Not to mention they are not giving the law abiding citizen the benefit of the doubt that they will continue to train and be responsible gun owners.
Of course they shouldn't fault us if there is no place to train...... ::)
When I spoke to Logan and expressed my concern for people not being able to practice, like say pregnant or breast feeding women who should stay away from loud noises like gun shots and inhalation of chemicals, he said, "well they can wait until they're able to". Which would imply a few years of no CCW. This is how he truly feels about the 2a.
-
Since it's 25rds required, I was looking at 5pts for 10 ring, 4.5 for 9 ring,etc... So divide score by 2.
Ahh, nvm. Some of them have multiple strings. Didn't catch that.
For 25 rounds, divide by 2 makes about as much sense as anything. Given the par times and size of the 9 ring, the standards doesn't sound bad. Yeah, some training/practice for those who shoot infrequently might be helpful. However, for most on this board, I think a practice run would suffice.
For you CMO, since you're gtg, I expect to see 120/125. . . O0
-
This morning HNN reported that Chief Logan said these "rules" will ensure that "inexperienced" gun owners are vetted out of the CCW process.
I'm not sure how everyone who supports 2a feels about this, but I for one feel this is total Bullsh*t.
Very few people are "experienced" in shooting people in self defense.
Not to mention they are not giving the law abiding citizen the benefit of the doubt that they will continue to train and be responsible gun owners.
Of course they shouldn't fault us if there is no place to train...... ::)
Maybe inexperienced voters should have to prove proficiency too.... I mean we are dealing with RIGHTS and not privileges like driving a car or anything. Lord knows driving through Waipahu is an experience everyone should go through.
Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
-
tangarine...
Ahh, nvm. Some of them have multiple strings. Didn't catch that.
For 25 rounds, divide by 2 makes about as much sense as anything. Given the par times and size of the 9 ring, the standards doesn't sound bad. Yeah, some training/practice for those who shoot infrequently might be helpful. However, for most on this board, I think a practice run would suffice.
For you CMO, since you're gtg, I expect to see 120/125. . . O0
-
tangarine...
If only you owned firearms, you could take the prof test. . . oh, and a holster. . .
-
If only you owned firearms, you could take the prof test. . . oh, and a holster. . .
Or purse. Don't assume the carry method.
-
no ammoh...
If only you owned firearms, you could take the prof test. . . oh, and a holster. . .
-
get it right- tactical man purse
Or purse. Don't assume the carry method.
-
get it right- tactical man purse
I have never seen you use this...it must be camo pattern.
-
Jump through all of these hoops and find out there is no place to CCW legally.
Looks like this will be the reality.
What did Y'all expect?
You are dealing with un-ethical animals.
Elected, appointed, government officials.
Cut their funds.
:wave:
-
tangarine...
The 9 ring is about a "Jabone"
I'll try to shoot the "standard" in an IPSC target. Will assume all A zone in time constraints would be passing. I don't think I have any B29 handy.
-
I have never seen you use this...it must be camo pattern.
concealed. . .
-
are holster retention methods, requirements specified somewhere? I didn't see that in the 8-9 page doc.
-
are holster retention methods, requirements specified somewhere? I didn't see that in the 8-9 page doc.
I took "applicant's holster" as open. I was told the retention was removed. Didn't see it in there on the link above, but didn't look super close.
-
are holster retention methods, requirements specified somewhere? I didn't see that in the 8-9 page doc.
There are no retention requirements.
-
Maybe inexperienced voters should have to prove proficiency too.... I mean we are dealing with RIGHTS and not privileges like driving a car or anything. Lord knows driving through Waipahu is an experience everyone should go through.
From a purely basic viewpoint, operating a firearm is magnitudes simpler and easier than operating a motor vehicle.
People have to go through weeks of driver's ed and, depending on age, log many hours of practice with a licensed adult before being allowed to try and pass both a written and hands-on driving test. Some new drivers spend lots of money on private lessons. Many don't pas their first time trying take the test. My younger daughter had to take it 3 times.
Ignoring the "right versus privilege: argument, the proficiency test should be a cake walk for most of us. Anyone with the eyesight, coordination and confidence to use their pistol for self defense will have no problem after a few hours of instruction and practice. In fact, I think the written test on state laws will be harder than the live fire test for most.
Obviously, I don't like the testing at all. It's just as unconstitutional, arbitrary and infringing as the "exceptional need" BS requirement. But, the state issues the licenses (will issue?), so they get to decide on the rules to a point.
At this stage, just turning the tables and making this a "shall issue" state is a major victory. Personally, I'm more miffed at the 1 year expiration period than the qualification test, primarily because I am an "experienced" gun owner who doesn't need several range visits to practice to be confident I can pass. Having to jump through the same hoops annually is a waste of time, money and resources for both the licensee and the state.
-
From a purely basic viewpoint, operating a firearm is magnitudes simpler and easier than operating a motor vehicle.
People have to go through weeks of driver's ed and, depending on age, log many hours of practice with a licensed adult before being allowed to try and pass both a written and hands-on driving test. Some new drivers spend lots of money on private lessons. Many don't pas their first time trying take the test. My younger daughter had to take it 3 times.
Ignoring the "right versus privilege: argument, the proficiency test should be a cake walk for most of us. Anyone with the eyesight, coordination and confidence to use their pistol for self defense will have no problem after a few hours of instruction and practice. In fact, I think the written test on state laws will be harder than the live fire test for most.
Obviously, I don't like the testing at all. It's just as unconstitutional, arbitrary and infringing as the "exceptional need" BS requirement. But, the state issues the licenses (will issue?), so they get to decide on the rules to a point.
At this stage, just turning the tables and making this a "shall issue" state is a major victory. Personally, I'm more miffed at the 1 year expiration period than the qualification test, primarily because I am an "experienced" gun owner who doesn't need several range visits to practice to be confident I can pass. Having to jump through the same hoops annually is a waste of time, money and resources for both the licensee and the state.
What it also does is sets precedent for stricter quals later. Like 10rd mags is an arbitrary #, why not 3 rds or like in NY, no can load more than 7 rds inside a 10rd blocked mag.
Then the state will use this as part of their argument for lawsuits later.
-
I took "applicant's holster" as open. I was told the retention was removed. Didn't see it in there on the link above, but didn't look super close.
I tried to do a search on the PDF posted. Nothing came back as found no matter what I tried, including "HONOLULU".
I then downloaded the PDF, but still couldn't search.
Then I noticed the rubber stamped "NOV 20 2022" all over the document. They must have scanned the file as an image -- meaning it's not searchable text.
So, I used Adobe's online converter to change the PDF to a Word document. Now I can search it. It loses some of the formatting, and some words are misspelled, but it's close enough.
RESULTS
The word "holster" only appears in the section listing the qualification test procedures, and the only use of "retention" appears in the list of topics to be included in the classroom training: firearm retention.
The word "level" has been completely omitted, as in "level two."
:thumbsup: :geekdanc:
-
Thought I seen something about a psychiatrist in there still?
-
Thought I seen something about a psychiatrist in there still?
Yep.
If you have lived in Hawaii the past 5 years, you just do the normal authorizations to release your HIPAA-protected files.
However, if you lived outside of Hawaii in the past 5 years, or had a 180 consecutive period outside the state the last 5 years, you get "special scrutiny:"
(b) If the applicant became a resident of Hawaii within the five years preceding the date of the application, or if the applicant became a resident of Hawaii more than five years prior to the date of the application and lived outside of Hawaii for more than 180 consecutive days within the five years preceding the date of the application, the applicant shall provide mental health information as follows:
(I) Mental health records from the health department of every state, province, or equivalent governmental unit outside of Hawaii where the applicant lived for more than l 80 consecutive days within the five years preceding the date of the application, to be sent directly to the Honolulu Police Department from the governmental entity. Applicants who, within the five years preceding the date of the application, were stationed outside Hawaii due to federal government service shall have mental health records sent to the Honolulu Police Department from the relevant federal governmental entity, but need not obtain records from the foreign or out-of-state government. Applicants who did not live in any location for more than 180 consecutive days shall provide an explanation to the Honolulu Police Department; or
(2) Certification from a physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist, licensed to practice in Hawaii and completed no earlier than 90 days before submission of the application, attesting to the applicant's mental fitness to carry a firearm, provided that the physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist shall personally evaluate the applicant for no less than 45 minutes before so attesting, and provided further that nothing in these rules shall require any health care professional to conduct such examinations.
-
Thought I seen something about a psychiatrist in there still?
That was if you lived outside of HI for 5 years or something.
-
I tried to do a search on the PDF posted. Nothing came back as found no matter what I tried, including "HONOLULU".
SNIP
The word "level" has been completely omitted, as in "level two."
:thumbsup: :geekdanc:
Thanks. Overall, the "devil details" are in the who administers this test. I haven't been looking into them that closely, but know folks who have. From what I've been told, it could take up to 40+ hours to get the credentials. . . :(
-
Thanks. Overall, the "devil details" are in the who administers this test. I haven't been looking into them that closely, but know folks who have. From what I've been told, it could take up to 40+ hours to get the credentials. . . :(
The new rules are still a cluster fu*k.
1) It states you cannot apply until you completed everything. Yes, all applicant's must do X, Y, Z when applying.
2) The 90 day rule would violate the 2 year rule of not having to do the classwork again for renewals
3) The chief can still limit when someone can carry, as in time of day, etc...
Basically, like Tasers, instead of keeping it simple, HI loves to add in many pages of rubbish.
-
The new rules are still a cluster fu*k.
1) It states you cannot apply until you completed everything. Yes, all applicant's must do X, Y, Z when applying.
2) The 90 day rule would violate the 2 year rule of not having to do the classwork again for renewals
3) The chief can still limit when someone can carry, as in time of day, etc...
Basically, like Tasers, instead of keeping it simple, HI loves to add in many pages of rubbish.
The more "trip wires" they add to the rules (which are not actually law), the more chance they have of you stepping on one and losing your rights.
Typical anti-gun, anti-2A mindset. Make the licensing process and use so convoluted, you're more likely than not to violate some portion of the rules -- giving them grounds to deny/restrict your legal authorization to carry.
-
The new rules are still a cluster fu*k.
1) It states you cannot apply until you completed everything. Yes, all applicant's must do X, Y, Z when applying.
2) The 90 day rule would violate the 2 year rule of not having to do the classwork again for renewals
3) The chief can still limit when someone can carry, as in time of day, etc...
Basically, like Tasers, instead of keeping it simple, HI loves to add in many pages of rubbish.
Speaking of tasers, when are you going to get tased?
-
Speaking of tasers, when are you going to get tased?
No need ammo cause range closed.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
-
No need ammo cause range closed.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Uh, that made NO sense. . .
-
Does anyone know how the points are calculated? I assume that 125 possible points with 25 rounds means 5 points possible per round but are partial points possible?
I think they’re looking at an NRA B-27 full-size silhouette with “qualification” scoring (see attached photo). X, 10, 9, and 8 rings are 5 points, 7 ring is 4 points, outside the 7 ring but on black is 3 points.
-
I tried to do a search on the PDF posted. Nothing came back as found no matter what I tried, including "HONOLULU".
I then downloaded the PDF, but still couldn't search.
Then I noticed the rubber stamped "NOV 20 2022" all over the document. They must have scanned the file as an image -- meaning it's not searchable text.
So, I used Adobe's online converter to change the PDF to a Word document. Now I can search it. It loses some of the formatting, and some words are misspelled, but it's close enough.
RESULTS
The word "holster" only appears in the section listing the qualification test procedures, and the only use of "retention" appears in the list of topics to be included in the classroom training: firearm retention.
The word "level" has been completely omitted, as in "level two."
:thumbsup: :geekdanc:
Remember, in the original version they didn’t say “level 2,” they said “type 2.”
-
I think they’re looking at an NRA B-27 full-size silhouette with “qualification” scoring (see attached photo). X, 10, 9, and 8 rings are 5 points, 7 ring is 4 points, outside the 7 ring but on black is 3 points.
So easy, even macsak get chance ;D
-
Remember, in the original version they didn’t say “level 2,” they said “type 2.”
The only occurrence of "type" is:
(g) Licenses issued pursuant to this section may be Unconcealed, Concealed, or both.
The Chief shall evaluate the applicant's needs and, in the Chief's opinion, what type of License will best promote public safety.
When the only references to "holster" and "retention" are the lines I previously referenced, I assumed that to be sufficient to prove there are no requirements for specific holster retention.
I ran the search on "level" in response to the question posted. I think we're good.
-
as long as the scoring box is on the low left...
So easy, even macsak get chance ;D
-
https://youtu.be/aijBO7iKcnE
-
I wanted to get a NAA Black Widow with the "holster grip" for deep concealment when I'm wearing PT style clothes. I'm actually scared I won't be able to hit the paper at all at 30 ft. :-\
-
I think they’re looking at an NRA B-27 full-size silhouette with “qualification” scoring (see attached photo). X, 10, 9, and 8 rings are 5 points, 7 ring is 4 points, outside the 7 ring but on black is 3 points.
So 2 to the chest, 1 to the head only gets you 13 points ;D
-
as long as the scoring box is on the low left...
And he's just throwing rocks cuz... you know.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
-
https://www.amazon.com/Official-Target-Shooting-Targets-Silhouette/dp/B07P9HMYJY/
nice!
And he's just throwing rocks cuz... you know.
I'd probably opt for the NRA B-27E to keep the boto blasters at bay
I've also been looking at another NRA certified target with the 5 score, the B-21E
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAVspGk2kig
-
as long as the scoring box is on the low left...
shoot left handed. . .
And he's just throwing rocks cuz... you know.
I'd probably opt for the NRA B-27E to keep the boto blasters at bay
I've also been looking at another NRA certified target with the 5 score, the B-21E
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I don't throw rocks. . . that's just rude. now throwing shade, maybe ;D
-
https://www.amazon.com/Official-Target-Shooting-Targets-Silhouette/dp/B07P9HMYJY/
nice!
21 yards? That target is interesting. . .
-
So who are these certified testers approved by HPD? Have anyone been approved?
Will they be the owners/instructors of the 2 miniscule indoor ranges on Oahu?
And how much will the test cost the poor, cash strapped citizen of Honolulu already paying for passport photos, range fees, range ammunition, and God knows what else. Oh yeah, the license fee.
Oh... Oh... yeah... yeah... also the range fees to practice. Oh, and what about the targets? Free? No? Maybe so? I dunno?
For you guys coming in from out of State no forget to save for the psychiatrist/psychologist/Dr. evaluation. Also you guys that was gone for 180 consecutive days.
And by the way, whoever thought up this mental evaluation for people coming from out of state or gone for 180 consecutive days should have their head examined.......
-
So who are these certified testers approved by HPD? Have anyone been approved?
Will they be the owners/instructors of the 2 miniscule indoor ranges on Oahu?
I know 1 guy who was the first to submit his app yesterday. No word on how long it will take to approve or deny the app. I find it hard to believe that all others also submitted their apps.
And since he was the first one, did others who have connections submit them via back channel ways since the guys in the front haven't seen them yet.
-
I know 1 guy who was the first to submit his app yesterday. No word on how long it will take to approve or deny the app. I find it hard to believe that all others also submitted their apps.
And since he was the first one, did others who have connections submit them via back channel ways since the guys in the front haven't seen them yet.
This would be depressing. Permits only to those "in the know" or to friends, LE, and acquaintances.
That was not the intent of the SCOTUS decision. HPD and Chief Logan needs to be very clear as to how one can take the test and who the certified instructors are that we can contact to take the test.
Since they are the ones who require a proficiency test, I feel they are required to make sure the public have access to facilities to take the test, even if it means access to their own indoor ranges.
-
he's talking about instructor approval...
This would be depressing. Permits only to those "in the know" or to friends, LE, and acquaintances.
That was not the intent of the SCOTUS decision. HPD and Chief Logan needs to be very clear as to how one can take the test and who the certified instructors are that we can contact to take the test.
Since they are the ones who require a proficiency test, I feel they are required to make sure the public have access to facilities to take the test, even if it means access to their own indoor ranges.
-
Since they are the ones who require a proficiency test, I feel they are required to make sure the public have access to facilities to take the test, even if it means access to their own indoor ranges.
Notice how he says HPD trains at KHSC too. Which is correct, but more SSD does. He left out how HPD has a range in Waipahu. Not many people know about this.
-
Notice how he says HPD trains at KHSC too. Which is correct, but more SSD does. He left out how HPD has a range in Waipahu. Not many people know about this.
More than SSD trains and tests at KHSC. . . a lot more. . .
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAVspGk2kig
"it is our responsibility to protect our residents of the island"
ok, then when someone gets assaulted, robbed, or killed, then we should be able to sue HPD bc they did not protect us
you are law enforcement. enforce the law, don't blow hot air up our asses with your bullshit statements, you puppet
you don't protect nobody.
when seconds count, HPD is minutes away
"any questions?"
yeah, I got a question. how far is your head stuck up your ass?
-
"it is our responsibility to protect our residents of the island"
ok, then when someone gets assaulted, robbed, or killed, then we should be able to sue HPD bc they did not protect us
you are law enforcement. enforce the law, don't blow hot air up our asses with your bullshit statements, you puppet
you don't protect nobody.
when seconds count, HPD is minutes away
"any questions?"
yeah, I got a question. how far is your head stuck up your ass?
Thank You, Brother Stang. I couldn't have said it better myself. :shaka:
-
Eh, I got a easy way for them (the assholes in charge of issuing permits) to not have to issue any. Make the medical professional who signs off on a person’s mental health LIABILE if the buggah they sign off on goes nuts and shoots up a place. Garans no one will get a mental health clearance. Damn, if I was a politician I could put Rhoads and Lee to shame with F'd up ideas on how to deny people their constitutional rights.
-
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/11/21/breaking-news/upcoming-livestream-honolulu-mayor-rick-blangiardi-joins-spotlight-hawaii-tune-in-at-1030-a-m/
9:30 mark.
"Look at what happened in CO and the LGBT this past weekend".
-
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/11/21/breaking-news/upcoming-livestream-honolulu-mayor-rick-blangiardi-joins-spotlight-hawaii-tune-in-at-1030-a-m/
9:30 mark.
"Look at what happened in CO and the LGBT this past weekend".
"for 170 years we have not been a gun culture"
in other words, for 170 years we have been cowtowing to criminals and letting them have the run of our islands without any way of defending ourselves against a deadly threat
gun free zones won't prevent any violence. if a criminal wants to shoot up a school or library or other gun free zone, you think they will turn around and leave just because there is a sign on the front door? that's just stupid to think that. gun free zones are just soft targets
"we are going to be restrictive"
in other words, yes, we will infringe on your 2A rights bc I'm the all mighty major dick blangiarti . yes it's true, you are a dick. a small one too
-
I mean, you think the illegal annexation of Hawaii would have happened if the Hawaiian's had guns? Sounds like a good reason we SHOULD HAVE HAD a "gun culture" over the last 170 years LMAO
I really can't write anything else because you know, bumbai dey watching LOL
-
True, Hawaii was not a "gun culture" for 170 years. But that's not the point.
Hawaii is a part of the United States of America. Not only is there a US Constitution that contains protections for civil rights -- among them the right of the people to keep and bear arms -- but that right is also captured in the Hawaii State Constitution.
Trying to explain that Hawaii's "culture" somehow trumps civil rights of the people is indicative of an elitist attitude.
Was there a "democracy culture" 170 years ago in Hawaii? Wasn't Hawaii under a Monarchy? I say voting should be more strictly regulated and made difficult, to include tests, classroom instruction, issuance of permits that expire annually, registration fees, and only one polling place per county open to the public on election day.
How about them search and seizure rules, 5th amendment protections and discrimination rights? Were those part of the Hawaii Culture 170 years ago?
The Constitution's Bill of Rights is not a list of what rights are granted, but a description of what limitations have been placed on government in order to protect the rights of hte people. That's why you see wording like "Congress shall make no law" and "shall not be infringed." The rights already existed before the Constitution. The Bill of Rights simply outlines how government is not allowed to cross the line when those rights are exercised.
-
this test discriminates