2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: QUIETShooter on November 21, 2022, 10:53:16 AM
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/hpd-to-begin-processing-concealed-carry-permits-after-approval-of-new-gun-rules/ar-AA14i69V?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=c809acbfcce9431da9240b42fc1eceeb
The only public range on Oahu is closed indefinitely.
There are only 2 indoor ranges where the public can train and take the proficiency test. Of course, you must pay range fees and purchase and use "their" ammo.
And this also means the public will have long waits to try to qualify for permits.
This puts a strain on people with fixed or low income. Many elderly people fall into this category. The one category more vulnerable to be victims of crime. Their opportunity to get a permit is limited or non-existent.
This puts a strain on working people where time and especially money has priorities other than range fees and use of "their" ammo.
This puts a strain on all firearm owners, as training is limited even though they budget the time to do so. The KHSC range is closed.
So there will be waiting lists for:
1)Taking the proficiency test at these 2 miniscule indoor ranges
2)Training for the required distances and targets at these 2 miniscule ranges
The City is blatantly saying that they reserve the right to extend to who they feel can be given the "privilege" to enjoy the right to carry and bear arms for self defense.
All in all a severely obstructive, unconstitutional, and Banana Republic style procedure to obtain a CCW license in the county of Honolulu.
Does anybody know how the other counties are handling this proficiency testing issue?
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You can see their thinking here.
It’s all about “public health”
https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/11/guns-on-the-ballot-how-mixed-midterm-results-will-affect-firearm-policy/#comments
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HIFICO is and has been working on finding out what will happen to these already submitted apps.
Under the new rules, the exam has to be done 90days prior to the submission of applicaiton. Not after.
IMO, HPD will deny those who already applied. Per the title of "processing", this might mean denials of all who already applied.
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SNIP
The City is blatantly saying that they reserve the right to extend to who they feel can be given the "privilege" to enjoy the right to carry and bear arms for self defense.
All in all a severely obstructive, unconstitutional, and Banana Republic style procedure to obtain a CCW license in the county of Honolulu.
Does anybody know how the other counties are handling this proficiency testing issue?
IMO, just another version/extension of "may issue". Blatant or veiled attempts? No idea. Dr. Green said they invite lawsuits to challenge. . . :hmm:
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You kno wat. Ainokea. F dem
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“We’re going to violate your rights and make you helpless against a violent crime wave as we attempt to cover it up with fake statistics.”
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/11/22/transparency-hpd-questioned-after-stats-showing-rise-violent-crime-kept-out-waikiki-safety-summit-talk/
(https://i.somethingawful.com/u/docevil/roamin/pig.gif)
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When you look at how Chief Logan is running things there’s no wonder why they have a recruitment problem.
Nothing kills motivation quite like watching public safety going to hell while being told to go harass the Democrat Party’s political enemies.
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HIFICO is and has been working on finding out what will happen to these already submitted apps.
Under the new rules, the exam has to be done 90days prior to the submission of applicaiton. Not after.
IMO, HPD will deny those who already applied. Per the title of "processing", this might mean denials of all who already applied.
How is it legal to retroactively apply “rules” ex post facto? Might as well just keep moving the goal post. Seems to work well in forum debates.
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I feel that making it very, very hard for law-abiding citizens to legally carry firearms for protection of self and loved ones will only add to the current increase in violence and crimes.
The more BS rules they make on CCW, the more the criminals smile and laugh.
The more they dodge the transparency issue, the more the criminals smile and laugh.
The more they embrace the revolving door issue on "petty crimes" the more the criminals smile and laugh.
Btw, the reference to "they" are our political leaders. Law Enforcement's hands are somewhat tied behind their backs due to what they can and cannot do.
Hard to even think about a career in law enforcement nowadays.
I wonder how the HPD presenters felt about their power point presentation at the Waikiki Safety Summit talks. It almost feels like a political rally: "Tell the people what they want to hear....."
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How is it legal to retroactively apply “rules” ex post facto? Might as well just keep moving the goal post. Seems to work well in forum debates.
Maybe they'll use it as a sell out.
Create a division between those who have a permit & those who don't.
Grant those sitting on the desk, deny all future applications.
Saying, see we granted 500 permits. Now we won't issue more for another 50 years.
Green got their back & already has his lawyers on speed dial.
They would still catch some fall back from the community though
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lul
How is it legal to retroactively apply “rules” ex post facto? Might as well just keep moving the goal post. Seems to work well in forum debates.
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How is it legal to retroactively apply “rules” ex post facto? Might as well just keep moving the goal post. Seems to work well in forum debates.
It's not moral or ethical, but as long as you honor it as being "legal",
you are fucked. Goal post is anywhere they choose to put it.
You will obey because it is the law.
BTW it is only a crime if you get caught and convicted.
I don't think much of unconstitutional laws/regulations or shit some administrator
dreams up.
:grrr:
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Tried walking into "X" last month and said there was no 9mm ammo available at the time. 9mm is plentiful outside, but if they cant have "supply" nobody can practice or to complete the proficiency test. I cant see how the other club is any better when you trace the roots.
We're still screwed lol
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Tried walking into "X" last month and said there was no 9mm ammo available at the time. 9mm is plentiful outside, but if they cant have "supply" nobody can practice or to complete the proficiency test. I cant see how the other club is any better when you trace the roots.
We're still screwed lol
Hmmmmm.......no 9mm available when outside suppliers are begging people to buy their ammo at huge discounted prices.......
But...we...can't...use...outside...ammo...
Gotta...buy...theirs...which...they...don't...have...
Hmmmmmmm...............my damn conspiracy theory radar is as erect as a 13 year old hard-on ;D
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The 2nd Amendment is my permit. The 3% of the colonists that took up arms and fought the King's army made it possible.
Jesus told his disciples to be armed and did not bother to tell them to go to the Roman rulers for permission.
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Hmmmmm.......no 9mm available when outside suppliers are begging people to buy their ammo at huge discounted prices.......
But...we...can't...use...outside...ammo...
Gotta...buy...theirs...which...they...don't...have...
Hmmmmmmm...............my damn conspiracy theory radar is as erect as a 13 year old hard-on ;D
Last week the G20 announced health/carbon passports for what basically amounts to a digital gulag, so my guess is that our C&C has been clued in to the approaching disaster of gas at $21 a gallon and have been instructed to take steps toward dismantling constitutional protections in the name of maintaining order.
Of course they are all terminally stupid and hopelessly corrupt, which means their plans are doomed to inevitably fall apart. That means a most likely scenario of extended energy shortages and possible WROL conditions (especially in locations where LEOs don’t have the resources to patrol) for the next 2-5 years, so having an iwb and getting some practice any way you can despite what politicians are saying is probably a good idea.
I’m considering some of the laser bullet systems now for dry fire practice
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Last week the G20 announced health/carbon passports for what basically amounts to a digital gulag, so my guess is that our C&C has been clued in to the approaching disaster of gas at $21 a gallon and have been instructed to take steps toward dismantling constitutional protections in the name of maintaining order.
Of course they are all terminally stupid and hopelessly corrupt, which means their plans are doomed to inevitably fall apart. That means a most likely scenario of extended energy shortages and possible WROL conditions (especially in locations where LEOs don’t have the resources to patrol) for the next 2-5 years, so having an iwb and getting some practice any way you can despite what politicians are saying is probably a good idea.
I’m considering some of the laser bullet systems now for dry fire practice
I use ELMS. This way I can use my gun and holster. And since it's for 9mm, I can use it in any of our 9mm pistols.
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I’d like to see a court case determine whether or not the city should be responsible for paying the cost of satisfying whatever requirements they decide to impose. Seems as though periodic classes, mental health examinations, or other similar “hoops” might be considered like being guilty until proven innocent. And given that self defense is a right, not a privilege, the society that wants to feel safe by regulating it should bear the cost of doing so.
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BTW it is only a crime if you get caught and convicted.
I don't think much of unconstitutional laws/regulations or shit some administrator
dreams up.
:grrr:
If you are careful not to show or brandish your weapon, the chance of getting caught with it is pretty close to zero. That is why some guys have been carrying on a regular basis for over 10 years. They don't go to bars and other trouble spots, no act all big body because they are carrying. But if their car breaks down in one of the many remote areas of the BI or some other circumstance puts them in a vulnerable spot, they are glad to have it. Oahu isn't as remote, but you have people there being killed or beaten right outside of the police station. In any case, it is always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Or if not killed, beaten into a vegative state and needing someone to feed you and wipe your ass.
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I’d like to see a court case determine whether or not the city should be responsible for paying the cost of satisfying whatever requirements they decide to impose. Seems as though periodic classes, mental health examinations, or other similar “hoops” might be considered like being guilty until proven innocent. And given that self defense is a right, not a privilege, the society that wants to feel safe by regulating it should bear the cost of doing so.
They will claim qualified immunity. It applies to government officials just like it does for police. The the gov't builds a homeless shelter and fails to keep the residents of the shelter, the workers or the neighboring homes and businesses safe from any violence, drug activity or theft resulting from it, you can't sue them.
There are fights going on on other states such as Tennessee, where current laws impose a weapons charge and a $500 fine + court costs if you are caught carrying in a Gun Free Zone. A new bill seeks to knock that penalty down to a simple trespassing charge if you refuse to leave or remove the firearm from the primacies.
If this is supposed to be about public safety, then the state, city and counties need to step up patrols in all gun free zones. If the gov't won't allow us to protect ourselves there, then the government has the duty to actively ensure our safety. Seems like common sense.
But, gov't is never held accountable no matter how many people die from gunshots in gun free zones.
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the message I'm getting and not only on this issue is that if you don't like the rules and the way things are - Move!
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Me, ainokea.
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the message I'm getting and not only on this issue is that if you don't like the rules and the way things are - Move!
One of the guys here posts music oldies.
I thought this one is appropriate for Hawaii Democrats
in this gun situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agvibm7Wqy4
Bad language warning!
:thumbsup:
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With the way the rules are written, I can't tell if we will be allowed to carry more than one firearm at a time. Does anyone know if we can carry a buddy or back up gun?
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With the way the rules are written, I can't tell if we will be allowed to carry more than one firearm at a time. Does anyone know if we can carry a buddy or back up gun?
No can.
Rule 15-27(a)(1)(E), “Revocation of license. The following will immediately result in revocation of all of a licensee’s concealed licenses: … Where the licensee has been found carrying more than one firearm at a time, regardless of whether the licensee holds licenses for the firearms.”