2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: hvybarrels on December 05, 2022, 09:15:56 PM
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Absolutely brutal takedown over widespread ND issues
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5c1bJXn8aU8
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m17 has a manual safety.
edit: I see someone named hawaiiangunner has commented that manual safety isnt available on civilian models, thats wrong, both military and civ m17 have manual safety. this youtuber presents some good facts but clearly super biased. the fact that he infers some kind of consipracy with drop testing and military contract.... he should take off the glock goggles before making videos.
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m17 has a manual safety.
edit: I see someone named hawaiiangunner has commented that manual safety isnt available on civilian models, thats wrong, both military and civ m17 have manual safety. this youtuber presents some good facts but clearly super biased. the fact that he infers some kind of consipracy with drop testing and military contract.... he should take off the glock goggles before making videos.
I noticed that "something is up" angle. I couldn't make it through the whole video. He does make some good points, but it seemed to be more ranting and left me with the impression of "he talks way to much". The video could have been maybe 1/3 the length, but eh, his channel, his avenue for information.
There are quite a few videos that came out in the past few days on the same/similar topic. I personally won't be getting another P320 until the dust settles. Prior to that, I was seriously considering expanding to a Compact/Carry frame.
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From what I've seen online, the drop tests have a specific procedure and standards for passing. When Sig's P320 first came out and the problems were being reported, their response was that they passed the tests AS PRESCRIBED. Just because they didn't test for the situation that can (not "does always") cause an ND in no way makes it a conspiracy -- unless there's evidence they knew about the problem before distributing them.
Even after the problem came to light, they didn't do a recall because the criteria for that were not met. They did, however, offer to install a new trigger and other parts free of charge for anyone wishing a "voluntary upgrade".
Guns are machines. Some new designs, if not all, have initial bugs that need to be worked out. They can't test for every single variation of every possible situation that might cause a problem. They rely on industry and government standards for those tests.
No conspiracy. Just an exceptionally nice firearm from a reputable company. It's not perfect, but give it time.
My P226 is still my #1 full size pistol. I sold my P320 to my Son in Law, even though it was neck-and-neck with the P226 in terms of ergonomics and shootability.
I had the voluntary upgrade done. If there were other concerns regarding safety, I would not have sold it to him. He tried all my guns at the range and also liked the P320 and P226 best for 9mm. He loved my Sig 1911, too. He bought both the P320 and Nightmare 1911.
I think Glock has relegated their firearms to all be different calibers and sizes of the exact same design. They don't think outside the "Glocks." It's understandable that they have a design that's lasted this long, but if you aren't a Glock fan, it's tough to find a Glock model that "fits" you. Like I said, they are all cut from the same pattern.
Sig, on the other hand, comes out with new designs quite often. They are always looking to improve.
Even Glocks have the occasional ND or accident. As I said, nobody can test for all potential situations. In fact, having to pul the trigger before removing the slide is one of Glock's most unsafe design flaws. The Sigs I've owned have no such "feature." If you don't properly clear the chamber, you're 99% certain to have an ND when taking the Glock down for cleaning. Just saying ...
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SNIP
No conspiracy. Just an exceptionally nice firearm from a reputable company. It's not perfect, but give it time.
That's fair and about my assessment of the current situation with Sig, lawsuits, etc. There was another video on the subject that was posted yesterday. This YTer stated he completed and has been a Sig certified armorer for (I think it was) something like 5+ years. He caught a LOT of flak on his previous videos on the P320. Anyways, he has a proposed "cheap insurance" procedure. Where one possible issue of what was observed is something like the interface at sear or sear engagement can tend to creep over time. So "cheap insurance" was to unload and load daily, thereby "resetting" the sear engagement (or whatever the video said). That appeared to align with a video from "Sig Mechanics", which was more on function and not on suspected causes.
Overall, I shoot the P320 really well. And if CMO can shoot "less than Jabone" sized groups, it must be super easy to shoot. ;D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f0PXVKRl-Y
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f0PXVKRl-Y
Holy shit, I agree with the Yankee Marshal about something!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f0PXVKRl-Y
Made some good points. However, mostly just his opinion on things. His rationale is no one is man enough to discuss, so I must be right? And the one non-cop is BS because I posted a question on your video and you didn’t respond?
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Made some good points. However, mostly just his opinion on things. His rationale is no one is man enough to discuss, so I must be right? And the one non-cop is BS because I posted a question on your video and you didn’t respond?
Execellent video and pretty correct,
Guns are just tools.
They only break when mis-used.
Surprised the hell out of me when I discovered My newly
acquired model 1897 trench gun was a "Slam fire".
:wtf:
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Execellent video and pretty correct,
Guns are just tools.
They only break when mis-used.
Surprised the hell out of me when I discovered My newly
acquired model 1897 trench gun was a "Slam fire".
:wtf:
My P320 has a "slam reload" feature. With the slide locked back, inserting a full mag with a sharp force caused the slide to release and load the chamber.
I saw that as a feature more than a problem.
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My P320 has a "slam reload" feature. With the slide locked back, inserting a full mag with a sharp force caused the slide to release and load the chamber.
I saw that as a feature more than a problem.
Y'all ever watch a western?
Slam fire is you hold the trigger back and every time you
cycle the mechanism it will fire.
A model 1897 will clear out a trench system
if a scared soldier has the capability to cycle the mechanism.
as fast as he can do it.
Scared people can work pretty fast.
:thumbsup:
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Execellent video and pretty correct,
Guns are just tools.
They only break when mis-used.
Surprised the hell out of me when I discovered My newly
acquired model 1897 trench gun was a "Slam fire".
:wtf:
He said something like “you do something long enough and bad things will happen”. Maybe I took that the wrong way, but thought that was a pretty :facepalm: And he says a lot of :facepalm: worthy stuff.
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Just have all PD put a NYC PD trigger on, if they can’t stop ND’ing.
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Looks like HPD is stirring up some controversy by adopting the P320. Definitely not the usual sort of Civil Beat gun coverage that we are used to.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/04/hpd-is-considering-buying-a-gun-thats-being-shelved-by-other-police-departments-over-safety-concerns/
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The response (from SIG) further noted that “despite years of litigation and extensive discovery,
no one, including plaintiffs’ ‘experts’, have ever been able to replicate a P320 discharging
without a trigger pull,” and that the P320 conforms to applicable U.S. standards for safety.
“The SIG Sauer P320 model pistol is among the most tested, proven, and successful handguns in
small arms history,” the company wrote.
https://www.thetrace.org/2023/04/sig-sauer-p320-upgrade-safety/?
How many of these ND incidents where the owner claimed, "My hand was nowhere near the trigger," fall under the same category as, "My brakes just failed?"
It's easier to claim the gun just went off when others make the same claim.
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Not sure on validity, but seeing a lot more reports of out of battery discharges, blowing up the frame. Lots with competition shooters. See posts here and there about it, but haven't seen a first hand account. Even folks like Ben Stoeger have been mentioning (and joking) about it. . .
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Not sure on validity, but seeing a lot more reports of out of battery discharges, blowing up the frame. Lots with competition shooters. See posts here and there about it, but haven't seen a first hand account. Even folks like Ben Stoeger have been mentioning (and joking) about it. . .
when my 320 was brand new it was tight and wouldnt always go into battery. but also never discharged out of battery.
what kind of competition shooter uses a 320? what kind of modifications do they make? thats probly it.
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Looks like HPD is stirring up some controversy by adopting the P320. Definitely not the usual sort of Civil Beat gun coverage that we are used to.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/04/hpd-is-considering-buying-a-gun-thats-being-shelved-by-other-police-departments-over-safety-concerns/
They just got their G17's and want to change already. Wow. They had their S&W 5906 for decades. G17 maybe like 5 years or so? I know they weren't gen5. I think they were gen 3's. Which IMO is a fuck up on who ever was in charge of ordering. Gen 4 at the bare minimum should have been ordered.
**update
NM, they're gen 4's as stated in the article. And wow, 10 years went by quickly. But I think this is when they first began testing them. Because I remember doing a bodybuilding comp in 2015 (my last one) and had a HPD friend who was learning how to get used to it compared to the 5906. Which means he wasn't issued it until 2015. He's a patrol, uniform officer.
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when my 320 was brand new it was tight and wouldnt always go into battery. but also never discharged out of battery.
what kind of competition shooter uses a 320? what kind of modifications do they make? thats probly it.
I haven't noticed any issues with my P320 X-Full (base gun). Lots of competition shooters shoot the P320. There's one who posts regularly here. Lots in Production and Carry Optics. Not that many mods, at least that I've seen. Not sure about the cases being reported. I've seen some of the guns. Most didn't seem to be modded that much, but yeah, who knows. I've seen Glock 34s get tinkered with to the point where it doubles.
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So is HPD gonna go RDS next?
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So is HPD gonna go RDS next?
how does a metro PD manage red dot battery replacement? I can't see an un-informed non-gun-person patrol officer doing that themselves. The expression "he's got a screw loose" is gonna take on a whole new meaning.
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how does a metro PD manage red dot battery replacement? I can't see an un-informed non-gun-person patrol officer doing that themselves. The expression "he's got a screw loose" is gonna take on a whole new meaning.
I'm sure they'll have a department armorer who's responsible for following a battery replacement schedule for issued weapons as well as ready replacement weapons. Battery replacement interval for duty optics is usually yearly for many departments even though the specs might estimate 3+ years of battery life.
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Not sure on validity, but seeing a lot more reports of out of battery discharges, blowing up the frame. Lots with competition shooters. See posts here and there about it, but haven't seen a first hand account. Even folks like Ben Stoeger have been mentioning (and joking) about it. . .
Ben Stoeger is a phenomenal shooter. Ben Stoeger also LOVES to stir shit up for the fun of it, to get reactions on the internet. He posted on IG that he has “received messages” about this happening, but doesn’t really know anything about it. He also said somewhere (but I can’t find it right now) that he posts stuff like this just “for fun.”
He’s a great shooter. Other than that, he’s a level 1,000 troll, and I don’t take anything he says seriously.
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Ben Stoeger is a phenomenal shooter. Ben Stoeger also LOVES to stir shit up for the fun of it, to get reactions on the internet. He posted on IG that he has “received messages” about this happening, but doesn’t really know anything about it. He also said somewhere (but I can’t find it right now) that he posts stuff like this just “for fun.”
He’s a great shooter. Other than that, he’s a level 1,000 troll, and I don’t take anything he says seriously.
Yeah, there’s that. It’s entertaining and can’t say it’s all trolling. I did see some discussion of the “observations” from other folks, not his buddies. Like xray, CTT, etc. Doesn’t make it true. Like a wise mentor once told me, trust but verify.
His online persona is interesting. I didn’t start following him until maybe 6 months ago. I had dealt with him a few times in the past when I had some issues with mags and another product from his shop. Always cool and more than helpful, even when I felt he didn’t have to. Went out of his way to make sure I got what I needed, and in the case of the mags, was functioning well in my CZ Shadow Target.