2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: ren on December 16, 2022, 03:15:48 PM
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/worker-wounded-suspect-killed-amazon-flex-warehouse-shooting-arizona-rcna61790 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/worker-wounded-suspect-killed-amazon-flex-warehouse-shooting-arizona-rcna61790)
heard that the person who shot the suspect was arrested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BwZweS6eOU
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If I had a gun in a gun free zone, I would only pull my gun if my life or that of a loved one was threatened. Let the others live or die as a result of the Come Kill People Here zone.
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Yeah, let someone else deal with the legal nightmare they would put you through.
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i have a different outlook. i try to put myself in others' situations and ask myself, "If that were me, what would i hope someone else would do?"
If your answer is, "Let me die so they can avoid the legal nightmare that might ensue," I hope you don't believe in karma.
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Blame lawyers.
You even render aid to some kid that fell off the bike and you might have some Karen sue you or have you arrested as a predator.
That is the reality of the leftist Brave New World.
My empathy is about shot with people these days. The election thefts has pushed it to the edge of ainokea anymore.
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Blame lawyers.
You even render aid to some kid that fell off the bike and you might have some Karen sue you or have you arrested as a predator.
That is the reality of the leftist Brave New World.
My empathy is about shot with people these days. The election thefts has pushed it to the edge of ainokea anymore.
I don't let other people's behavior guide me. i'll always do what I think is right, and I hope my example helps another person make the same choice.
If the Leftist Lawyers and Karens make you change how you behave in their world, they've won.
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Even if it WASN'T a gun free zone and I and those I care about can safely get away, I am not going to confront an active shooter and try to be a hero. I am not getting paid to do that. It isn't my job. If I was LEO that would be another story. Someone else who wants to be a hero or a LEO might think you are or are with the shooter and shoots you. Even if you manage to stop the shooter by killing or severely injuring him, there are going to be legal ramifications and lawsuits brought by his family. Hopefully you do have good SD insurance and they cover you. In any case, I hope none of us have to experience that.
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Even if it WASN'T a gun free zone and I and those I care about can safely get away, I am not going to confront an active shooter and try to be a hero. I am not getting paid to do that. It isn't my job. If I was LEO that would be another story. Someone else who wants to be a hero or a LEO might think you are or are with the shooter and shoots you. Even if you manage to stop the shooter by killing or severely injuring him, there are going to be legal ramifications and lawsuits brought by his family. Hopefully you do have good SD insurance and they cover you. In any case, I hope none of us have to experience that.
You've listed an awful lot of 'ifs" to evaluate in just a few stressful moments that you might have to react.
Is it your belief that paid LEOs are going to put their lives on the line to save others when (a) they haven't arrived on the scene yet, and (b) they have no legal duty to protect any individual per SCOTUS? I have this feeling that, based on your comment, you'd be unwilling to put your life on the line for a stranger even if you were being paid to enforce the law. I don't see how your attitude would change that drastically over a paycheck.
The former Broward County Sheriff was unavailable for comment.
Yes, someone might mistake you as a threat, but if you're taking cover and facing/moving toward the sound of shooting, that person will have the chance to evaluate whether or not you are the threat.
I often play 'what if' after a mass shooting to think about what i would have done in that situation. It's a good way to recognize your options before being faced with making that choice.
It's tough to help someone else if you're hit/dead, so i agree your own life is priority #1. But, if you have a good chance of engaging and not being a target (surprise, concealment, cover, ...), I'd hope the urge to fight beats out the urge for flight. Concern for legal consequences or another good guy shooting me would take a backseat to the immediate problem.
Again, that's just me. This isn't the first thread that's been down this rabbit hole. :shaka:
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You had more "ifs" in your comment than I did. That does not matter. If is a necessary word to introduce the condition or scenario. Yes, if I was a LEO I would put my life on the line in an active shooter situation, but since I am not, preserving my life and that of loved ones is priority one. There was a licensed CCW holder that intended to stop a shooter in a Walmart store. As he approached the shooter from the back, he was unaware that the shooter had a partner trailing him 25-30 ft back. Shooter 2 shot the good guy killing him, leaving a young family without a husband and father. I think it is admirable on your part being willing to risk your life to help strangers in an active shooter situation. But as I stated earlier, it is not something I am going to get involved in..
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You had more "ifs" in your comment than I did. That does not matter. If is a necessary word to introduce the condition or scenario. Yes, if I was a LEO I would put my life on the line in an active shooter situation, but since I am not, preserving my life and that of loved ones is priority one. There was a licensed CCW holder that intended to stop a shooter in a Walmart store. As he approached the shooter from the back, he was unaware that the shooter had a partner trailing him 25-30 ft back. Shooter 2 shot the good guy killing him, leaving a young family without a husband and father. I think it is admirable on your part being willing to risk your life to help strangers in an active shooter situation. But as I stated earlier, it is not something I am going to get involved in..
It's not a contest of "ifs" I was making the point that you won't have the luxury of "what if"-ing in the heat of the moment.
Once again, not going down the scenario rabbit hole again. I have been taught my whole life to help others. This conversation doesn't change my views on the topic. I'm not trying to change yours either.
I'd try to save a drowning person.
I'd give CPR to a person not breathing.
I'd pull my gun if I see an active shooter.
I don't expect everyone to feel this way.
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I think the biggest factor would be how close the threat is. Across the parking lot 70 yards vs. 5 cars away is a huge variable.
Theres a vid in vegas by ASP that a gunman enters walmart. Samaritin at the front of the store saw him and followed him to the middle of the store and bad guy opened fire. Samaritin didnt see bad guys gf following 20 feet behind him. As the samaritin was about to engange, she put a gun to the back of his head (execution style) and killed him. Thats how close she was behind the good guy and he didnt notice.
So the point is samaritin could have just left the store, but made the decision to be the hero and paid for it.
There are many what ifs.
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I think the biggest factor would be how close the threat is. Across the parking lot 70 yards vs. 5 cars away is a huge variable.
Theres a vid in vegas by ASP that a gunman enters walmart. Samaritin at the front of the store saw him and followed him to the middle of the store and bad guy opened fire. Samaritin didnt see bad guys gf following 20 feet behind him. As the samaritin was about to engange, she put a gun to the back of his head (execution style) and killed him. Thats how close she was behind the good guy and he didnt notice.
So the point is samaritin could have just left the store, but made the decision to be the hero and paid for it.
There are many what ifs.
I'm shocked RSN172 didn't bring up that case.
Oh, wait ..... never mind.
:geekdanc:
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I'd try to save a drowning person.
Same here
I'd give CPR to a person not breathing.
Same here
I'd pull my gun if I see an active shooter
Only if my life or that of a loved one was threatened.
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I'd try to save a drowning person.
Same here
I'd give CPR to a person not breathing.
Same here
I'd pull my gun if I see an active shooter
Only if my life or that of a loved one was threatened.
I half expected you to argue against giving aid for fear of being sued, which does happen.
"You are your own first responder." i just never imagined the response would be "Run away!" :geekdanc: :shaka:
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I half expected you to argue against giving aid for fear of being sued, which does happen.
"You are your own first responder." i just never imagined the response would be "Run away!" :geekdanc: :shaka:
On 2nd thought maybe I shouldn't give CPR to a stranger. My CPR certification expired about 5 years ago. Running away often times is the best thing to do.
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On 2nd thought maybe I shouldn't give CPR to a stranger. My CPR certification expired about 5 years ago. Running away often times is the best thing to do.
It's always going to be situational. In a secured room with children and adults, it would be foolish to go outside when you might be needed to protect the people with you.
and so on ....
and so forth ....
i'd make the call in the moment, too. Nobody can accurately predict the circumstances. But given that an active shooter is within range, and I'm armed, you would probably have to shoot me to keep me from engaging to try and stop the killing.
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we have a good samaritan law here...
I half expected you to argue against giving aid for fear of being sued, which does happen.
"You are your own first responder." i just never imagined the response would be "Run away!" :geekdanc: :shaka: