2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: changemyoil66 on April 03, 2023, 01:48:48 PM
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Hearing is on 4/5 @ 2pm.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/account/login.aspx?return=/account/submittestimony.aspx?billtype%3dSB%26billnumber%3d1230
Use link above to sign in. Enter SB1230 and submit your testimony.
This is the mirror to HB984
Not only sensitive places but
Hunters ed not good enough for pistol purchase. Need a new class that's approved by HPD. No grandfather clause. HE is only good for long gun/shotgun.
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Thank you so vey much for the post. The link is very handy. And I know it takes a lot of work, but listing the difference from the other bill is also very helpful.
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By not allowing concealed carry firearms to be secured in one's vehicle on private property (like we can in sensitive locations), in effect, they prohibit the person's ability to carry while driving to that location on public streets. This is like a back-door ban on carrying on public streets, because if one of your stops is at private property, then you need to leave your gun at home. At first I wondered if this was an accident. But now, I don't think this is an accident. It is just their sly tyranny.
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By not allowing concealed carry firearms to be secured in one's vehicle on private property (like we can in sensitive locations), in effect, they prohibit the person's ability to carry while driving to that location on public streets. This is like a back-door ban on carrying on public streets, because if one of your stops is at private property, then you need to leave your gun at home. At first I wondered if this was an accident. But now, I don't think this is an accident. It is just their sly tyranny.
You do not have to secure your firearm on private property (residential) unless it falls under a "business establishment". So you can drive while CCWing.
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Done. Thanks for keeping us up to date.
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So you can drive while CCWing.
But not much else.
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142 Support over half copy/paste.
46 opposed
Kila was the only no vote.
Guess gun owners in HI want to redo their handgun safety class and redo it every 4 years. And have to take a class to buy a rifle/shotgun. And no one will be able to buy a gun from when Green signs the bill in July until at least end of the year when HPD and other counties get their process redone to approve ALL firearm instructors.
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So AG said they had teams of smart people who worked on this bill to make it withstand a lawsuit. But yet when asked a few weeks ago if it can, he stated "what you're asking me to do is to litigate this bill" and "we need to see how the other courts rule since it's such a new thing". So how did they write it with history and tradition in mind?
Also he brought up 800 something courts and only a few 2a wins. He left out that ALL the sensitive places laws are being challenged. Counties in CA, NJ state and NY. I'm surprised CA state hasn't formed their own state bill. But that might be the tipping point for them.
So again, the AG representative is leaving info out and our politicians take his word like it's the word of god.
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142 Support over half copy/paste.
46 opposed
Kila was the only no vote.
Guess gun owners in HI want to redo their handgun safety class and redo it every 4 years. And have to take a class to buy a rifle/shotgun. And no one will be able to buy a gun from when Green signs the bill in July until at least end of the year when HPD and other counties get their process redone to approve ALL firearm instructors.
seems like we're not getting the message through to gun owners in Hawaii. and/or there's wide-spread apathy.
seems to be reflected in how the legislature is able to ram-rod through other unpopular bills, driven by the minority special interest groups. I'll go with apathy. People care, but not enough to do anything about it. "too busy".
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seems like we're not getting the message through to gun owners in Hawaii. and/or there's wide-spread apathy.
seems to be reflected in how the legislature is able to ram-rod through other unpopular bills, driven by the minority special interest groups. I'll go with apathy. People care, but not enough to do anything about it. "too busy".
"it doesn't affect me" is another common reply I get. Until I educate them how it does. But IDK if they ever submit or not. I spoke to 2 guys this week at the gym who told me this. Then had a look of shock when I brought up the PTA and class portion. And they were upset and claiming "this is unconstitutional".
I read all the test, and I know they didn't submit. Unless they used a psuedoname, which I doubt they did.
If we can't even get gun stores to write testimonies for HB426 that directly affects them, what success can we have? There are some stores who do a lot for the cause. I will only spend my money at these stores and buy from them instead of online, even thought it's slightly cheaper.
But we all must still do our part, if not, no grumble. Plus what we do or don't do today, affects future gun owners. And with the internet now, more people can be reached.
If it weren't for HIFICO, all semi auto rifles and shotguns might have been banned a few years ago with no grandfather clause. Same with rifle mags. Maybe even 50 cal rifles, shotguns, or handguns as well. Plus many accessories that "may increase the rate of fire" like buffer spring, lighter BCG, lighter triggers, etc...
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46? That’s pretty sad.
I understand with the chaos around the corner it’s easy to say why bother but we still have to get through the next 6 months or so with our rights in tact.
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"it doesn't affect me" is another common reply I get. Until I educate them how it does. But IDK if they ever submit or not. I spoke to 2 guys this week at the gym who told me this. Then had a look of shock when I brought up the PTA and class portion. And they were upset and claiming "this is unconstitutional".
I read all the test, and I know they didn't submit. Unless they used a psuedoname, which I doubt they did.
If we can't even get gun stores to write testimonies for HB426 that directly affects them, what success can we have? There are some stores who do a lot for the cause. I will only spend my money at these stores and buy from them instead of online, even thought it's slightly cheaper.
But we all must still do our part, if not, no grumble. Plus what we do or don't do today, affects future gun owners. And with the internet now, more people can be reached.
If it weren't for HIFICO, all semi auto rifles and shotguns might have been banned a few years ago with no grandfather clause. Same with rifle mags. Maybe even 50 cal rifles, shotguns, or handguns as well. Plus many accessories that "may increase the rate of fire" like buffer spring, lighter BCG, lighter triggers, etc...
CMO, I was wondering if I could find out which gun stores that you know of take time to participate in testimonies on these bills. I would definitely patronize these stores also.
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does SB1230 still include language to change the regular pistol PTA (not CCW) requirement to an HPD-approved instructor, affidavit only valid for 4 yrs, and also mandate a similar requirement for long guns?
I was trying to read through SB1230 SD2, and I couldn't find the language, but trying to read that crap is difficult to start with. Is SB1230 HD1 the version that is sailing through the legislature? the HD1 version has the 4yr HPD-approved instructor language.
I saw the part about requiring locked containers now when taking your firearms to the range, sojourn, etc.
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Bill goes into conference. Which means select combo of senate and house members. It hasn't been assigned yet, so unknown who these people are.
Then they all must agree on 1 version. So changes can still be made. Also possible for the bill to die.
Then goes to Greens desk if the conference passes it.
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Bill goes into conference. Which means select combo of senate and house members. It hasn't been assigned yet, so unknown who these people are.
Then they all must agree on 1 version. So changes can still be made. Also possible for the bill to die.
Then goes to Greens desk if the conference passes it.
thank you CMO, for the explanation. much appreciated!
:shaka: :shaka:
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CMO, I was wondering if I could find out which gun stores that you know of take time to participate in testimonies on these bills. I would definitely patronize these stores also.
click on the testimonies and read. it says who they are representing.
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click on the testimonies and read. it says who they are representing.
I read through each testimony for 1230, I did not see a single gun shop represent any testimony. Maybe I missed something. Anyway, I'll just do my part and click and write oppose in the testimonies for any anti 2A fire missions.👍
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I read through each testimony for 1230, I did not see a single gun shop represent any testimony. Maybe I missed something. Anyway, I'll just do my part and click and write oppose in the testimonies for any anti 2A fire missions.👍
Its possible that individuals represented themselves instead of the shop they work for, but if they dont represent the shop or business, then they arent representing the shop or business.
When they cant sell any pistols for 6 months and are wondering why, I hope they dont blame others for not participating.
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CMO, I was wondering if I could find out which gun stores that you know of take time to participate in testimonies on these bills. I would definitely patronize these stores also.
Sorry only saw this now.
Oahu only
Danger Close Tactical-Plantiff on lawsuit that allows emailed PTA and online reg. Also challenging the 14 day PTA wait time.
Young Guns-Shows up to hearings in person, offered to donate ammo for any politician who wants to learn about guns
Koffin Works-Shows up to in person hearings
Kaneohe Gun Store-Submits written testimony and shows up to in person hearings
Firearms International-Offered to be on lawsuit when HPD was screwing with Taser seller permits, writes testimony
There may be others who do things, but I'm not aware and don't know 100% of everything. The above is what was done over the years by the stores and there may be more that I'm not aware of. So take this with a grain of salt. In the end, you spend your money where ever you want. For me, I won't spend money at a store that doesn't help the cause.
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Its possible that individuals represented themselves instead of the shop they work for, but if they dont represent the shop or business, then they arent representing the shop or business.
When they cant sell any pistols for 6 months and are wondering why, I hope they dont blame others for not participating.
Over the course of some bills this year, store owners submitted via their names and forgot to put "on behalf of X,Y,Z store".
Kaneohe Gun Shop and Firearms International are 2 that I know of. I had to ask around to find out what their names were because I had a feeling it was them.
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Over the course of some bills this year, store owners submitted via their names and forgot to put "on behalf of X,Y,Z store".
Kaneohe Gun Shop and Firearms International are 2 that I know of. I had to ask around to find out what their names were because I had a feeling it was them.
Also gotta consider what kind of backlash they could face? Maybe they arent allowed to submit on behalf of their business. If politicians can introduce and pass litigious bills like hb426, then who knows what else they could do to hurt business owners.
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Also gotta consider what kind of backlash they could face? Maybe they arent allowed to submit on behalf of their business. If politicians can introduce and pass litigious bills like hb426, then who knows what else they could do to hurt business owners.
Thanks guys for the responses. Yeah I guess I can understand why stores may leave out their store names in fear of stuff these powerful politicians may do to cause trouble for them.
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Also gotta consider what kind of backlash they could face? Maybe they arent allowed to submit on behalf of their business. If politicians can introduce and pass litigious bills like hb426, then who knows what else they could do to hurt business owners.
This is a thing. Which is why I give SEC a break. Many HPD go there and get HPD supplies from there. So I will assume they dont want to bite the hand that feeds them.
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Thanks guys for the responses. Yeah I guess I can understand why stores may leave out their store names in fear of stuff these powerful politicians may do to cause trouble for them.
HB426 should have had every gun store cause when signed, they can be sued. And this also means that there really needs to have no good reason to sue either. 1 can sue and not even have a chance of winning. But this will cost gun stores and people money to pay for a defense attorney. Only time will tell if the anti 2a groups put effort into sueing gun stores.
The question is at what point is the line drawn and stores get more involved with testimonies or like legislature? Some years ago, they tried to ban all semi auto rifles and shotguns with no grandfather clause. This would mean if it passed into law in July, any semi autos on the shelf would be illegal to own. They would have had to turn them into HPD prior to the effective date. Majority of stores didn't submit testimony. I know 1 store is friends with their senator/rep and they called their cell phone to complain and they showed up in person to the hearing.
I was in Vegas and they had the mask mandate at the time. When we entered the gun store, the owner said we can take off our mask. I asked what about the mandate? His reply was something like " cops wont dare come into a gun store and start pushing their weight around".
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https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=1230&year=2023
Senate disagrees with the house amendments. No clue what this is or who's on the sen/house committee's. But this is good news as it slightly increases the chance of the bill dying. But it could be over anything, like 1 committee wants to add another sensitive place or doesn't like the 4 year CCW validity.
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Senate Conferees Appointed: Wakai Chair; Rhoads Co-Chair; Elefante.
House Conferees Appointed: Tarnas, Yamashita Co-Chairs; Kitagawa, Takayama.
Conference committee meeting scheduled for 04-26-23 4:45PM; Conference Room 016.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=1230&year=2023 (https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=1230&year=2023)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_9G2RlqX7Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_9G2RlqX7Y)
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they kicked the can down the road, to tomorrow.
Conference committee meeting to reconvene on 04-27-23 4:30PM; Conference Room 016.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHvKJcJQrFM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHvKJcJQrFM)
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This is good. When committee doesnt show up, its their way of voting no without voting no.
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rpoL98: Thank you very much for taking the time to keep track of this, and posting.
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Pushed back again till tomorrow 3:45, room 016.
This should have been a slam dunk. Somethings up.
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Pushed back again till tomorrow 3:45, room 016.
This should have been a slam dunk. Somethings up.
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watching the youtube video, relevant from about 3:00:25 onwards, it sounds like the steam roller is definitely rolling ahead, guess somebody from Fiscal forgot to dot some i's and cross some t's. tomorrow...
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It's not unusual. Finance chair is the busiest one in the capitol as most bills have a financial component to them. While other chairs may have 10 or so bills to oversee, the finance chair may have 50 or 100.
Tomorrows the last day for bills to clear conference committee. If one of the chairs is out tomorrow, then the bill might be dead. They have until 6:30pm tomorrow. But the bill appears to be agreed on and complete, they just have to vote in committee.
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Watching some other bills, Finance is backed up with a lot of other bills and probably burning the midnight oil tonight. Cross your fingers and hope they're a no show tomorrow.
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It's not unusual. Finance chair is the busiest one in the capitol as most bills have a financial component to them. While other chairs may have 10 or so bills to oversee, the finance chair may have 50 or 100.
Tomorrows the last day for bills to clear conference committee. If one of the chairs is out tomorrow, then the bill might be dead. They have until 6:30pm tomorrow. But the bill appears to be agreed on and complete, they just have to vote in committee.
too busy scheming to funnel our monies to friends and families
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In my opinion SB1230 and all the other anti-2a gun control bills can take a flying f**k at a rolling doughnut........ ;D
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Watching some other bills, Finance is backed up with a lot of other bills and probably burning the midnight oil tonight. Cross your fingers and hope they're a no show tomorrow.
🤞🤞🤞
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FWIW:
4/28/23 3:45P CR 016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr3IOb0T1v8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr3IOb0T1v8)
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... and they just passed it. :( :wacko: :wtf:
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Immedately after the vote, all clapped and 4 left to go somewhere else.
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... and they just passed it. :( :wacko: :wtf:
Sucks 👎
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... and they just passed it. :( :wacko: :wtf:
I had no doubt it would pass and said so in another thread. Every antigun piece of legislation in Hawaii has better than 90% odds of passing.
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Anybody noticed that the more gun laws they pass the worse crime gets?
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... and they just passed it. :( :wacko: :wtf:
FACK!!! :grrr:
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So now what? Does SB1230 go over to the house for review and vote?
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So now what? Does SB1230 go over to the house for review and vote?
Greens desk for signature.
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The CD1 draft is out which will be the final language of the bill. It will go through floor votes in the house and senate next week, then to the Governor. It is expected to pass.
I was able to get a few changes made for us, a small token.
1. The 4 year statewide CCW permits is still in there (effective Jan 1 , 2024). I expect the supreme court will remove most of the sensitive places and half of the requirements for CCW licenses, so the 4 year statewide licenses still remain.
2. The changes to Permit to Acquire and CCW Licenses take effect on January 1, 2024. This allows us to continue to apply under current requirements and gives the police time to redo their policies and forms so we don't have a break in services. Also gives us a little more time for the courts to play out.
3. The firearm prohibition for harassment was limited to physical contact only. This will save a couple hundred people from getting their guns confiscated.
Other things
1. Dropped the 1,000 feet boundry prohibiting carry at public gatherings
2. Allow for right of way to home, employment and vehicle.
Things added:
1. Golf courses, swimming pools (?????), tennis courts.
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Passed Senate floor vote. 22 ayes, 1 with reservations (Decoite), 3 nays (Awa, Favella, Gabbard).
Goes to Green now.
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Rubber Stamp Green. :grrr:
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Quick Read thru points. There may be some errors below:
1) Hunters Ed OK for rifle/shotgun, but has to be done every 4 years
2) Permit to acquire handgun needs new handgun class and done every 4 years. All current affidavits will be void 1/1/24
3) Instructors for the above class cannot just be NRA instructors, they must be approved by HPD. No clue on what HPD's requirements are, I guess there will be another "chiefs rules" hearings
4) Sensitive places overides C&C version
a) LEOSA not excluded for private property like retail and malls
b) Armored car cannot get lunch while armed
c) This bill adds ALL private property, which includes family/friends home and all commercial properties
d) Verbal permission is OK only for private property that isn't listed as a sensitive place. So total ban at medical facilities, movies, schools, bars, restaurants that serve alcohol, parks, public transport (excluding bus stops)
5) Can leave gun in car if you got ur CCW. But IDK if this applies to everyone or just CCW holders. Initial read was unclear
6) Must disclose ALL doctors for permit to acquire and CCW, includes retired ones
7) CCW's still pending after 120 days will be automatically void
8) Permit to acquire has up to 40 days to deny someone, instead of 20 days
9) For CCW, you must be a resident of HI, which means military stationed here cannot apply
10) CCW instructors can no longer sign off on their own affidavit
11) CCW fee per application/handgun is $150 whether you pass or fail. And if 120 days comes and you get denied, pay another $150 you will have to do
12) CCW valid for 4 years
13) Duty to inform when CCWing
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Quick Read thru points. There may be some errors below:
1) Hunters Ed OK for rifle/shotgun, but has to be done every 4 years
2) Permit to acquire handgun needs new handgun class and done every 4 years. All current affidavits will be void 1/1/24
3) Instructors for the above class cannot just be NRA instructors, they must be approved by HPD. No clue on what HPD's requirements are, I guess there will be another "chiefs rules" hearings
4) Sensitive places overides C&C version
a) LEOSA not excluded for private property like retail and malls
b) Armored car cannot get lunch while armed
c) This bill adds ALL private property, which includes family/friends home and all commercial properties
d) Verbal permission is OK only for private property that isn't listed as a sensitive place. So total ban at medical facilities, movies, schools, bars, restaurants that serve alcohol, parks, public transport (excluding bus stops)
5) Can leave gun in car if you got ur CCW. But IDK if this applies to everyone or just CCW holders. Initial read was unclear
6) Must disclose ALL doctors for permit to acquire and CCW, includes retired ones
7) CCW's still pending after 120 days will be automatically void
8) Permit to acquire has up to 40 days to deny someone, instead of 20 days
9) For CCW, you must be a resident of HI, which means military stationed here cannot apply
10) CCW instructors can no longer sign off on their own affidavit
11) CCW fee per application/handgun is $150 whether you pass or fail. And if 120 days comes and you get denied, pay another $150 you will have to do
12) CCW valid for 4 years
13) Duty to inform when CCWing
Cmo , does this go into effect July 1st when green signs it? The bill 57 that went into effect couple days ago, does that bill include all the sensitive places laws listed above and the permission to store gun in vehicle? Thanks in advance, its kind of confusing.
Oh wait, just saw a post from hifico, jan 2024?
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Cmo , does this go into effect July 1st when green signs it? The bill 57 that went into effect couple days ago, does that bill include all the sensitive places laws listed above and the permission to store gun in vehicle? Thanks in advance, its kind of confusing.
Oh wait, just saw a post from hifico, jan 2024?
The permit to acquire, handgun instructors take effect Jan 1st. This way HPD has time to get their stuff together. We saw how long it took them to change their CCW rules.
IDK about the rest if it's upon signing or July. I haven't had time to fully read every portion.
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2. Allow for right of way to home, employment and vehicle.
Is this still acceptable if you park in City or State property?
Are there any new rules/literature about storage in vehicles?
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Sorry guys, I haven't had the time to read all 75 pages yet. Right now I'm focusing on reading over and over again Bill 57 (ROH23-6) since this is in effect. And everytime I read it, I have more questions than understandings.
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I tried submitting testimony at 1:30 today (4/4) before the 2pm deadline stated in the topic title, and it says:
[snipped]
Never mind. All the hearings are green, meaning they already have my testimony. I'm probably locked out from submitting again for this bill.
if that's the case, it's a flaw in their system. If the bill is scheduled for its 6th hearing and 2nd draft update, for example, and my testimony was based on the original bill, then there's no way to update my testimony and "points" as the bill changes from draft to draft unless I submit a hard copy or testify in person.
My arguments and opinions might change as the bill is updated, but the old testimony stands.
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focus
today is 5/4...
I tried submitting testimony at 1:30 today (4/4) before the 2pm deadline stated in the topic title, and it says:
(https://i.imgur.com/if80oLF.png)
Did the window close early? Hearing rescheduled?
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Sorry guys, I haven't had the time to read all 75 pages yet. Right now I'm focusing on reading over and over again Bill 57 (ROH23-6) since this is in effect. And everytime I read it, I have more questions than understandings.
I appreciate you sharing your interpretation of these Bills. The language never ceases to throw me into a foggy confused coma.
It seems the more I try to read it to understand it the more confused I get, lol!
I cannot speak nor comprehend lawyerese.....
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focus
today is 5/4...
Dyslexic I am.
But, at at least I submitted my testimony ... whenever it was . :geekdanc:
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Bill is on greens desk.
A portion of this bill is being used in the Yukutake lawsuit about 10 days to pick up your PTA or you have to start all over again. The AG is wants the case dismissed because this bill if Green signs it will change it to 30 days.
What this means is like Tasers, the atty gets stiffed for the bill due to the law changing.
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I love Hawaii,
but despise the Idiots that run it.
My cousin moved to very liberal WA state
He went to Sheriff station was finger printed
and has a state wide CCW
license in less than two weeks.
I'm going to do the same as I'm now
a legal resident of WA state.
FU Hawaii.
Why can't you guys fix your problems?
I'm not advocating violence but you Oahu guys
could do some Hawaiian Kamehameha
stuff( he used guns).
:wtf:
Y'all got too many Japanese and Chinese,
cultures averse to revolution?
In WA state a guy like Rhodes would need
24 hr per day security.
That only he could provide.
:wave: