2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: changemyoil66 on June 19, 2023, 08:50:16 AM
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So the part that may apply most is the CCW portion:
1) Page 8 (7); you can leave your gun in the car if you have a CCW license and going into a "sensitive place". ROH allowed this, but due to state law, 1 cannot do this until 7/1. See page 12 for storage requirements. Bascially lockable container and kept out of view.
2) Duty to inform page 11. ROH required this, but now state law requires you also show docs that show evidence the gun is registered (3) if the cop asked for it.
3) When stopped by a cop or a driver or passenger in a car, upon request you have to do #2 and tell them where the gun is located (page 12)
4) ROH banned all commercial property, state law now bans all private property (page 14). So if you go to your uncles home, you need permission.
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focus
what's ROH?
So the part that may apply most is the CCW portion:
1) Page 8 (7); you can leave your gun in the car if you have a CCW license and going into a sensitive place or restricted place. ROH allowed this, but due to state law, 1 cannot do this until 7/1. See page 12 for storage requirements. Bascially lockable container and kept out of view.
2) Duty to inform page 11. ROH required this, but now state law requires you also show docs that show evidence the gun is registered (3) if the cop asked for it.
3) When stopped by a cop or a driver or passenger in a car, upon request you have to do #2 and tell them where the gun is located (page 12)
4) ROH banned all commercial property, state law now bans all private property (page 14). So if you go to your uncles home, you need permission.
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focus
what's ROH?
Revised Ordinance of Honolulu (Bill 57)
The state has 1 law (HRS134) and each county has their own. For Oahu it's ROH. Example is the ROH has stuff on BB/airsoft guns that are more specific that the state law (HRS134). Kauai ordinance you need approval from their KPD to get pepper spray. Big Island (Hawaii County) has their own sensitive places that they passed well before Oahu passed theirs.
The junk part is HI has no preemption. Which means HI law overrides county ordinances so there is no confusion. Like how NV has for Clark County (Vegas). Well, I mean HI has a horrible modified preemption, only if the ordinance conflicts with state law, then state law is to be followed. See #1 as an example. Effective 7/1; now a CCW holder can leave their gun in their car.
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why not write "bill 57"?
Revised Ordinance of Honolulu (Bill 57)
The state has 1 law (HRS134) and each county has their own. For Oahu it's ROH. Example is the ROH has stuff on BB/airsoft guns that are more specific that the state law (HRS134). Kauai ordinance you need approval from their KPD to get pepper spray. Big Island (Hawaii County) has their own sensitive places that they passed well before Oahu passed theirs.
The junk part is HI has no preemption. Which means HI law overrides county ordinances so there is no confusion. Like how NV has for Clark County (Vegas). Well, I mean HI has a horrible modified preemption, only if the ordinance conflicts with state law, then state law is to be followed. See #1 as an example. Effective 7/1; now a CCW holder can leave their gun in their car.
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why not write "bill 57"?
Because it's not Bill 57 and now ROH 23-006.
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no one knows what ROH 23-006 is...
Because it's not Bill 57 and now ROH 23-006.
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no one knows what ROH 23-006 is...
Google.
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Anyway, everything related to CCW is as clear as mud.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if even the cops don't know what to do in every circumstance.
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no one knows what ROH 23-006 is...
I knew perfectly what he meant. but I am a nobody so you are correct sir.
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sorry, man
i stand corrected...
I knew perfectly what he meant. but I am a nobody so you are correct sir.
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you just said "ROH"
focus
Google.
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Google is our master....
Roh, sometimes spelled Noh, Ro or Lho, is a given name of Sanskrit origins,
derived from the male given name Rohit, meaning "rising sun", or "red horizon".
It is normally given to boys with Indian descent and Hindu religion, and is normally
a name given to boys born into higher castes, (Brahmin, priestly caste, and the
kingly/warrior caste).
Roh is also a Gaelic boy name, with roots from the Irish word “Rough”. It was a
popular given name in the early Dark Ages, alluding to the fighting and rebellious
nature of the Irish people. Roh also has Germanic roots as a given name and surname,
the meaning of which vary from "rough soldier" to "curious knight".Roh, officially
transliterated as No, is also a surname of Korean and other origins. The Korean
Roh (also romanized Noh) derives from the Chinese surname Lu.
https://www.definitions.net/definition/roh
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you just said "ROH"
focus
I replied to your post. You said "no one knows what ROH 23-006 is". So I replied google. It's a joke.
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There is a big difference between "sensitive places" and "private property of another".
You cannot get permission to CCW in a sensitive place like how you can for private property of another. Example: You cannot CCW in a hospital even if the president of the hospital gives you permission. You can CCW in a retail store if they give you permission.
You can leave your gun in the car of the parking lot of a sensitive place, but cannot do that for all other private properties. Example: Going to the hospital, you can store your gun in the car, see above post about storage. But going to the retail store that didn't give you permission, you cannot leave your gun in the car of their parking lot.
I think I'm reading this part correct as the bill begins with sensitive places and then about allowing the parking lot. Then another section about "duty to inform" is there and penalties for carrying in a sensitive place. Then the section on storage in a car. Next comes the section about private property of another. So IMO, this means what I just posted about not being able to store when visiting a private property, but only a sensitive place. We will have to wait until the official HRS134 section numbers are issued for SB1230.
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I think I will put a Crime Free Zone, Strictly Enforced sign on my gate.
A cop told a friend of mine they should put Private Property No Trespassing on their fence and gate to make prosecuting violators easier.
Maybe add in small print “Is what I have worth your life?”
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Got some national press on the HIFICO lawsuit on the eve of the apocalypse. Pretty neutral article with statements from both sides, to include GI Joe and Buddy Rhoades.
https://apnews.com/article/gun-control-hawaii-beaches-concealed-carry-e603ecebf44678a514d1fea1bcc45e0a
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The criminal element has taken over the beaches in Hawaii. Our politicians want the world to believe that Hawaii is a paradise where everything is sunshine, smiles, and aloha.
Ha ha :rofl: Dream on. It is not.
Just as our politicians, through their laws on gun control, has included law abiding citizens in the "basket of deplorables", along with the criminal element that do not follow laws, I also claim that the criminal element that has taken over the beaches of Hawaii include our politicians and lawmakers.
It is through their short-sighted, cowardly, and arrogant disregard for citizens rights that enabled them to draft these ridiculous and restrictive laws that made our beaches unsafe in the first place.
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Got some national press on the HIFICO lawsuit on the eve of the apocalypse. Pretty neutral article with statements from both sides, to include GI Joe and Buddy Rhoades.
https://apnews.com/article/gun-control-hawaii-beaches-concealed-carry-e603ecebf44678a514d1fea1bcc45e0a
How come they left "a veteran" out?
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How come they left "a veteran" out?
I should've dressed up like a veteran for the photo.
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Yay
I feel safe today.
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What really offends me is the implication that Hawaii
strict anti-guns are why Hawaii has such a low crime rate.
Try looking at Demographics you idiots.
:grrr: :wtf:
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So the online HRS134 hasn't been updated yet. Everytime there's a new law or change, I've seen it updated at longest 2 days after the effective date (7/1). Wonder why the state is taking so long to update their website?
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"they" are up to something...
So the online HRS134 hasn't been updated yet. Everytime there's a new law or change, I've seen it updated at longest 2 days after the effective date (7/1). Wonder why the state is taking so long to update their website?
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"they" are up to something...
#noteverythingistinfoil
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Is it just me or is KITV almost starting to sound a little more sympathetic?
https://www.kitv.com/news/more-permit-requirements-coming-for-gun-users-in-hawaii-starting-in-24/article_0ad18a3a-31d4-11ee-90cc-47edd4683154.html#comments
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Is it just me or is KITV almost starting to sound a little more sympathetic?
https://www.kitv.com/news/more-permit-requirements-coming-for-gun-users-in-hawaii-starting-in-24/article_0ad18a3a-31d4-11ee-90cc-47edd4683154.html#comments
I think the reporter was just lazy and didn't bother to get the government's/police department's side of the issue.
Or, maybe they already know there's no valid justification for this other than infringing on a Constitutional right even further.
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Okay, so according to the KITV4 article,
"Current certifications will be void starting January 1st, 2024 and a new class will be required.
...
Director for Hawaii Firearms Coalition - Andrew Namiki Roberts told KITV4, "In January we're going to see a whole bunch of changes coming up with regards to the permitting and registration system, and that's where our concerns are right now, because what they've done is they've made the law so that if you have a class that you've taken in the last four years - or ever, it's going to be invalid, so any class that somebody's taken up until since 1994, when training requirements were put into place, is now void."
I have three affidavits from taking basic Hawaii Firearms classes dated 1999, 2003, and 2004. Are will these be void after January 1st, 2024?
Similarly, if I take a Hawaii Firearms class, now, before January 1st, 2024, does this new class become void January 1st, 2024? If not, then how long would my new Hawaii Firearms class be valid for?
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Okay, so according to the KITV4 article,
I have three affidavits from taking basic Hawaii Firearms classes dated 1999, 2003, and 2004. Are will these be void after January 1st, 2024?
Similarly, if I take a Hawaii Firearms class, now, before January 1st, 2024, does this new class become void January 1st, 2024? If not, then how long would my new Hawaii Firearms class be valid for?
Yes, because all instructors need to be approved by hpd.
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For the firearms affidavits from Jan 1 2024 the following must apply:
Relevant training must've been done within 4 years of getting a permit to acquire for any firearm.
Hunters Ed cannot be used for the handgun permit to acquire.
Firearm instructors must be verified by police departments.
Other firearms instructors may be eligible to give training (other than NRA instructors)
Firearms training must cover mental health, suicide, domestic violence.
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There's also more background and mental health checks, more discretion for denying permits, and approvals may take longer.
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The mental health checks is where I see a lot of problems. Knowing these asshats they will make mountains out of molehills...... :grrr:
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There's also more background and mental health checks, more discretion for denying permits, and approvals may take longer.
Oh well, looks like in 2024 we're right back to a "May Issue" State. ::)
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For the firearms affidavits from Jan 1 2024 the following must apply:
Relevant training must've been done within 4 years of getting a permit to acquire for any firearm.
Hunters Ed cannot be used for the handgun permit to acquire.
Firearm instructors must be verified by police departments.
Other firearms instructors may be eligible to give training (other than NRA instructors)
Firearms training must cover mental health, suicide, domestic violence.
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There's also more background and mental health checks, more discretion for denying permits, and approvals may take longer.
Is this written in stone yet? if so, where?
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Is this written in stone yet? if so, where?
Capitol website SB1230 CD1
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For the firearms affidavits from Jan 1 2024 the following must apply:
Relevant training must've been done within 4 years of getting a permit to acquire for any firearm.
Hunters Ed cannot be used for the handgun permit to acquire.
Firearm instructors must be verified by police departments.
Other firearms instructors may be eligible to give training (other than NRA instructors)
Firearms training must cover mental health, suicide, domestic violence.
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There's also more background and mental health checks, more discretion for denying permits, and approvals may take longer.
So my ccw renewal should cover everything? If I understand this correctly.
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Capitol website SB1230 CD1
oh i see, i thought the chief had made some decisions about this. i have a feeling it will be a clusterfuck despite them having half a year to work on it.
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About halfway down.
(4) A firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a [state certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor] firearms instructor certified or verified by the chief of police of the respective county or a designee of the chief of police or certified by a nongovernmental organization approved for such purposes by the chief of police of the respective county or a designee of the chief of police, or conducted by a certified military firearms instructor; provided that the firearms training or safety course or class provides, at a minimum, a total of at least two hours of firing training at a firing range and a total of at least four hours of classroom instruction, which may include a video, that focuses on:
(A) The safe use, handling, and storage of firearms and firearm safety in the home[;], as well as a component on mental health, suicide prevention, and domestic violence issues associated with firearms and firearm violence; and
(B) Education on the firearm laws of the State.
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So my ccw renewal should cover everything? If I understand this correctly.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I’m misinformed, so January 1st do all CCW permits before January 1st 2024 get voided? Or are current holders of CCW still GTG as long as they got it before January 1st
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I’m misinformed, so January 1st do all CCW permits before January 1st 2024 get voided? Or are current holders of CCW still GTG as long as they got it before January 1st
License to carry still good until the expiration date shown on the card.
Training affidavits used to get permit(s) to acquire handguns, if issued prior to 1 Jan 24, no good starting 1 Jan. Have to retake class to get new affidavit.
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License to carry still good until the expiration date shown on the card.
Training affidavits used to get permit(s) to acquire handguns, if issued prior to 1 Jan 24, no good starting 1 Jan. Have to retake class to get new affidavit.
So are there no changes to the ltc training/education requirements listed in sb1230? theres an afwul lot of stuff in that section but im not familiar at all with the requirements pre-sb1230.
section 8 of sb1230 might give them room to revoke all the permits that we are assuming will be "grandfathered", like long gun permits and ltc?
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So are there no changes to the ltc training/education requirements listed in sb1230? theres an afwul lot of stuff in that section but im not familiar at all with the requirements pre-sb1230.
section 8 of sb1230 might give them room to revoke all the permits that we are assuming will be "grandfathered", like long gun permits and ltc?
There are changes.
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Here’s a link to the law as passed and signed:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessions/session2023/bills/GM1152_.PDF (https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessions/session2023/bills/GM1152_.PDF)
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So if going to the store we aren't allowed to store the gun in the car because it's private property? But if it's a sensitive place we're allowed to store it in our vehicle?
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My impression of SB1230:
:crazy:
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So if going to the store we aren't allowed to store the gun in the car because it's private property? But if it's a sensitive place we're allowed to store it in our vehicle?
Yes. Except I never read Big Islands ordinance on this.
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thank you to all that helped to pass this wonderful bill!. I feel so safe now that only criminals carry since they don't care about this magnificent bill :thumbsup:
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Soooo many pages to keep us law-abiding citizens in line........ :rofl:
No worry all you law-breaking pukes. This is not about you. Carry on.
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thank you to all that helped to pass this wonderful bill!. I feel so safe now that only criminals carry since they don't care about this magnificent bill :thumbsup:
Sarcasm...
You can also thank almost every gun owner who didn't do anything to stop this bill. We got between 80-140 testimonies per hearing. It should have been easily 5000+ per hearing. Becasue SB1230 also changed the permit to acquire requirements for both pistol and long gun/shotty. Bascially the state said F-U to Buren and raped gun owners.
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So if going to the store we aren't allowed to store the gun in the car because it's private property? But if it's a sensitive place we're allowed to store it in our vehicle?
There are a lot of conditions depending on the circumstances. Also parts of sb1230 are currently stayed in federal court, in particular the private property approval requirement.
1. Carry license or no carry license.
Sensitive places and private property w/o approval only applies to those with carry licenses and the licenses firearms. If you do not have a carry license then those do not apply to you. Instead you still follow place to keep (restricted to home, range, place of employment, etc).
2. Entire Private Property: If you have a carry license and there is no "guns allowed" sign, then the licensed gun would have to be off the private property, even if stored in a car. This is due to it affecting the whole property to include the parking lot, unless otherwise specified.
3. If you have a carry license and going to a private property(w no "guns allowed" sign) that is also a sensitive place, then #2 still applies and can't have your licenses gun in the car unless otherwise specified.
There was talk on enforcement at shopping malls with some stores allowing guns and others not. I believe you can carry or store firearm in the car on the mall property in that case.
Other county laws may change things in Honolulu, who's private property signage requirement is technically still in effect, and Hawaii County.
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Sarcasm...
You can also thank almost every gun owner who didn't do anything to stop this bill. We got between 80-140 testimonies per hearing. It should have been easily 5000+ per hearing. Becasue SB1230 also changed the permit to acquire requirements for both pistol and long gun/shotty. Bascially the state said F-U to Buren and raped gun owners.
I heard from a staffer that no matter how many testimonies you have the committee chairs hold the power. They laugh behind closed doors.
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I heard from a staffer that no matter how many testimonies you have the committee chairs hold the power. They laugh behind closed doors.
This is true.
But all of us refuse to submit to their arrogance. We testify anyway. F- them too.
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I heard from a staffer that no matter how many testimonies you have the committee chairs hold the power. They laugh behind closed doors.
It depends on the chair. For a person like Rhoads he don't care. If it's a moderate chair, especially one that may face a tough re-election, it matters. Some will take input and make small changes to the bill. Or it may spark a thought in one of the other committee members that are on the line and tilt it to our favor.
The Taser restriction bill comes to mind. Through testimony and other means, we got the committee to vote 4 to 1 against Rhoads to kill it. The rifle magazine bill was another that we killed due to testimonies and other support.
Politicians need votes as some elections are decided within single digit votes. Testimonies are one indicator of votes. If we had 10,000 to 20,000 testimonies and supporters, we can change elections.
However like you said, we shouldn't rely on testimonies. I call it a last resort cause we failed to do other things. As far as effectiveness:
Educating the public: 30%
Educating & working w legislators: 60%
Testimonies: 10%
I dedicate about 65% of my firearms time and money in protecting the 2A through advocacy.
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I heard from a staffer that no matter how many testimonies you have the committee chairs hold the power. They laugh behind closed doors.
This is very true, but if there are thousands, it's harder to ignore and will give them something to consider vs. only 100 testimonies.
Plus now the c&c corporate counsel is using this against us. They're saying that they have hundreds of testimonies that support the bill.
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It depends on the chair. For a person like Rhoads he don't care. If it's a moderate chair, especially one that may face a tough re-election, it matters. Some will take input and make small changes to the bill. Or it may spark a thought in one of the other committee members that are on the line and tilt it to our favor.
The Taser restriction bill comes to mind. Through testimony and other means, we got the committee to vote 4 to 1 against Rhoads to kill it. The rifle magazine bill was another that we killed due to testimonies and other support.
Politicians need votes as some elections are decided within single digit votes. Testimonies are one indicator of votes. If we had 10,000 to 20,000 testimonies and supporters, we can change elections.
Just to be clear, the mag bill had 1500 testimonies. This is why I know it's very possible to get more than 100 testimonies. Other bills we get about 100-200 or so prior to this bill. This bill was so big that to get 80 is a slap in the face to those who work hard for free.
The taser bill was dead because many big island residents called their senator and she was 1 to change her mind. Same senator with the mag bill. IIRC the head chair for the house also got calls, although he never admitted it for his reasoning to not hear the bill. He said "we have enough gun laws as it is".