2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: stangzilla on July 05, 2023, 12:26:13 PM
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308 for civilian use makes sense, since we aren't going to lug it around for days with 100's of rounds of ammo
if I did have to lug around for days with ammo, maybe 5.56 would be better
both calibers are readily available, which is important too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTNmXzPzBBc
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Things to consider:
1) The 223/556 is a very common round. Easier to find for sale and barter with than 308. I've seen way more 223 on the shelves than 308.
2) LEO here is almost all 223/556 for rifle caliber
3) Military here is majority 223/556 for rifle calibers.
4) Penetration of each caliber, depending on what your home is built from.
5) Ability to rapid fire accurately
6) Urban distances
7) 223/556 is cheaper to practice with and so are the rifles that shoot it
In the end it's your call. But for me, I have no reason to buy a 308 semi auto.
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Considering ditching my 5.56 carbines for a .308? No.
I do have and envision having bolt action in .308 and 6.5 CM for the foreseeable future, but not quite the considerations MAC noted.
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I like having both calibers 5.56 and 308
I wouldn't give up either one
for SHTF like red dawn and I'm staying at home, then I would prefer the AR308. way more stopping power. if I need to shoot through barriers, 308 is much better
but for SHTF and I need to bugout, then I would prefer the AR15. lighter rifle and lighter ammo to carry. if I have to bugout and I know I'm not coming back home, then I would take both rifles with me
if I need to hunt, 308 is better suited. 223 or 5.56 I don't think is legal to hunt here. I could be wrong bc I'm not a hunter. but if the need arises, I'd prefer 308 over 223
I shoot way more 223 than 308 mostly bc of cost. and I have twice as many 223 rifles than 308 rifles
I shot my AR308 on a friend's farm a few times, mostly offhand position standing and it got heavy real quick, it weighs almost twice as much as my AR15's. but that's just my rifle, others might weigh less. plus add in a loaded 25 round mag and now its really heavy, so I wouldn't want to lug that around for too long
I don't think there is a do it all gun, each has a specific purpose. I would hate to have to choose only 1
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Keeping .556 because I’m a wimp.
Had a cheap 7.62x39 upper. Was reliable but I couldn’t get it accurate. Shoulda kept it. Was good fun.
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If you're repelling a foreign invasion and happen across a fallen NATO soldier or supply point, chances are good you'll find some 5.56 ammo.
Of course, you can also get 7.62x39 off the enemy, but that involves more risk.
:popcorn: :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
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I think I'll keep my 5.56
Yeah, in the case of SHTF or civil chaos, there will be a lot of people running around shoot'in and pillag'in all over the place.
If I ever end up in a shooting match and I luck out and come out on top, chances are my enemy has a 5.56/.223 which I can add to my arsenal.
5.56/.223 will be a popular bartering item as well.
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Since we live in Hawaii, most likely we will have a hurricane or tsunami vs a red dawn invasion
In that case, I will be hunkering down at home defending against looters. Probably 1 looter or a few at most at 1 time. That means I wont be lugging ithe AR308 around so its heavy weight isnt a factor. What is a factor is the 308 has about double the energy of 5.56. It will take less rounds to stop a threat.
5.56 will get the job done. 308 will get the job done better
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Kinda off subject but on Hurricanes and Tsunamis:
If any one hits with deadly accuracy one can almost be assured there will be total chaos resulting in pillaging and looting.
We are isolated. We cannot divert power from other states or sources. Our supplies come from 3000 miles away over the water. If our harbors and unloading docks are damaged........
But my biggest concern is our people. We are untested as far as prevailing during times of duress. I suspect the majority of the population panicking and doing irrational things. Politicians will be hiding in their basements. HPD will hunker down and take care of their own. I don't blame them.
Yep. Sometimes I long for a .308 and if the above days do come, I will wish I never procrastinated.
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Kinda off subject but on Hurricanes and Tsunamis:
If any one hits with deadly accuracy one can almost be assured there will be total chaos resulting in pillaging and looting.
We are isolated. We cannot divert power from other states or sources. Our supplies come from 3000 miles away over the water. If our harbors and unloading docks are damaged........
But my biggest concern is our people. We are untested as far as prevailing during times of duress. I suspect the majority of the population panicking and doing irrational things. Politicians will be hiding in their basements. HPD will hunker down and take care of their own. I don't blame them.
Yep. Sometimes I long for a .308 and if the above days do come, I will wish I never procrastinated.
We are the Aloha State. Lots of Aloha to go around.
But shot placement is the ultimate factor.
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Kinda off subject but on Hurricanes and Tsunamis:
If any one hits with deadly accuracy one can almost be assured there will be total chaos resulting in pillaging and looting.
We are isolated. We cannot divert power from other states or sources. Our supplies come from 3000 miles away over the water. If our harbors and unloading docks are damaged........
But my biggest concern is our people. We are untested as far as prevailing during times of duress. I suspect the majority of the population panicking and doing irrational things. Politicians will be hiding in their basements. HPD will hunker down and take care of their own. I don't blame them.
Yep. Sometimes I long for a .308 and if the above days do come, I will wish I never procrastinated.
I'm sure a 5.56 will do the job. I'm just Mr. Overkill. ;)
Like ren said, shot placement is key.
But there's still time to get a 308 if that's what you want.
I like options. I never regret buying a firearm, but I did regret not buying a firearm
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Kinda off subject but on Hurricanes and Tsunamis:
If any one hits with deadly accuracy one can almost be assured there will be total chaos resulting in pillaging and looting.
We are isolated. We cannot divert power from other states or sources. Our supplies come from 3000 miles away over the water. If our harbors and unloading docks are damaged........
But my biggest concern is our people. We are untested as far as prevailing during times of duress. I suspect the majority of the population panicking and doing irrational things. Politicians will be hiding in their basements. HPD will hunker down and take care of their own. I don't blame them.
Yep. Sometimes I long for a .308 and if the above days do come, I will wish I never procrastinated.
With recent near-misses and increased homeless over the past few years, I think if one hits with even moderage impact, things will be at least amplified. I think many have gotten lulled into a sense of "Lie Hagi wen lie again". Hopefully some folks are better prepared overall based on recent stuff, like pandemic supply chain issues, realization that one can't depend on Gov't or others for help, etc. That said, I agree that the biggest concern is people looking to "get theirs".
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Here I go again straying off topic. (Sorry guys, it's an illness.) :D
Anyway remember a while back when Walmart used to have those bluelight specials or Black Friday specials and they put spam on sale? Forget what the price was but it was case sales and dirt cheap.
The video showed a huge braddah fighting off little ole ladies. Just for a f*ckin case of spam.
I think of that scenario everytime a Hurricane approaches Hawaii. :shake:
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5.56 is perfectly fine for self defense use for most people. Ammo is half the cost compared to 308 to allow for more training. The rifle, and ammo, is lighter so it'll be faster to get on target, move with the rifle, and do followup shots. Muzzle blast will be less indoors.
Some of the complaints that 5.56 is weak can be attributed to using FMJ instead of JHP or JSP. 308 has a lot of power, but a lot of that is wasted when the bullet exits the body.
308 is good for penetrating barriers and keeping energy at long ranges, but those factors aren't as relevant for most people.
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308 is good for penetrating barriers and keeping energy at long ranges, but those factors aren't as relevant for most people.
How do green tips compare to FMJ 308 for penetration?
Also common 308 mags come in 20rders like the Scar, M1/14, AR10. Unless u go 7.62 AK versions. Compared to your common 556 mags that are 30rders.
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308 green tips. ;)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49693603878_9df856c5da_b.jpg)
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I have no plans to get rid of any ammo/guns. I enjoy all of my 556, 762x39, 308, 6.5, and
545x39 platforms. You never know when an opportunity to acquire may present itself.
I can however appreciate the benefits of simplifying a firearms/ammo inventory.
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5.56 is green tips, 308 is soft points 150 grains, 7.62x39 is 122 grain fmj
the 308 penetration would be more with a fmj projectile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o_dZWclVMM&t=236s
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I have no plans to get rid of any ammo/guns. I enjoy all of my 556, 762x39, 308, 6.5, and
545x39 platforms. You never know when an opportunity to acquire may present itself.
I can however appreciate the benefits of simplifying a firearms/ammo inventory.
Same/similar for me. For SHTF or even all-around use, commercial ammo availability for 5.56 and 7.62x39 are quite common for "2 legged" considerations. For .308 and 6.5 I mostly have match ammo and heads. I have some hunting ammo for them, but damn expensive. Now thinking about things a but more, my AK is seeming quite attractive for all-around use, at least where I live.
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How do green tips compare to FMJ 308 for penetration?
Also common 308 mags come in 20rders like the Scar, M1/14, AR10. Unless u go 7.62 AK versions. Compared to your common 556 mags that are 30rders.
Overall 308 will vastly out penetrate m855 just cause it's got a lot more mass behind it and a thicker jacket. There are some exceptions. M855 will penetrate a slightly thicker steel plate. Though a 308 AP round would go through the same like butter.
You give up stopping power for penetration by using m855 over JHP or JSP.
For peacetime purposes, a 20 round magazine is okay with aimed fire. Capacity isn't as important as with pistols since a rifle is more accurate and require less hits to stop an attacker. Unless the cartel is after you.
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Overall 308 will vastly out penetrate m855 just cause it's got a lot more mass behind it and a thicker jacket. There are some exceptions. M855 will penetrate a slightly thicker steel plate. Though a 308 AP round would go through the same like butter.
You give up stopping power for penetration by using m855 over JHP or JSP.
For peacetime purposes, a 20 round magazine is okay with aimed fire. Capacity isn't as important as with pistols since a rifle is more accurate and require less hits to stop an attacker. Unless the cartel is after you.
Totally 4got abt this.
Spartan Armor Systems lvl3 steel plates will stop 308 all day. 556 fmj nope. They did a test and stopped after 77rds 308.
My Shotstop Duritium PA stop 308 and 556. M855 nope.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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Same/similar for me. For SHTF or even all-around use, commercial ammo availability for 5.56 and 7.62x39 are quite common for "2 legged" considerations. For .308 and 6.5 I mostly have match ammo and heads. I have some hunting ammo for them, but damn expensive. Now thinking about things a but more, my AK is seeming quite attractive for all-around use, at least where I live.
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(http://www.thefirearms.guide/wp-content/uploads/diag_bullet-cutout.jpg)
so dumb. What's so hard about using correct terminology? Just like some people using concrete and cement terms as if they were the same thing.
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their not the same thing?
(http://www.thefirearms.guide/wp-content/uploads/diag_bullet-cutout.jpg)
so dumb. What's so hard about using correct terminology? Just like some people using concrete and cement terms as if they were the same thing.
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their not the same thing?
Nope. . . not the same . . . just like their, there and they're are not the same.
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their not the same thing?
no. if you had to ask you either don't own any firearms or a complete newb. I thought some people here are pros. I looked up to them. Then they use the weirdest terms. I lost all faith. I'm sad. :(
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their not the same thing?
Clips
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Bullet heads is correct
(https://assets.dragoart.com/images/9221_501/how-to-draw-bullet-bill-bullet-bill-mario_5e4c92e48bfb64.90045300_40251_3_3.jpg)
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no one would ever misspell it on purpose...
Nope. . . not the same . . . just like their, there and they're are not the same.
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dental picks...
Clips
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I hoap thay opin the acshun bays sune. :crazy: :shake: :crazy:
:stopjack:
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no one would ever misspell it on purpose...
nice try
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i wasn't baiting you...
nice try
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More amps. . . :shaka:
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He didn't mention what weights he was shooting. An 80 SMK's BC is slightly better than a 168 SMK's BC.
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Comparison of mild steel penetration of m855 green tip 556 v 300 blackout. 300 blackout typically has half the energy of a 308.
M855 can penetrate 3/8" mild steel while 300 blackout can penetrate half that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykjLMFcrvFA
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Same guy tests 308 on mild steel plate with many different types of rounds. 3/8th inch mild steel stops all the copper bullets but is severely cratered. 308 AP penetrates 3/4" steel plate easily.
https://youtu.be/IOS5hWqxKzI
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Bullet heads is correct
(https://assets.dragoart.com/images/9221_501/how-to-draw-bullet-bill-bullet-bill-mario_5e4c92e48bfb64.90045300_40251_3_3.jpg)
Dammit Zippz !
Now while a bunch of you folks are reloading I’ll be painting Heads on my Bullets.
Then guaranz they’re, their, there Bullet Heads.
5.56
Shoot the boto.
It’s no match for 55 gr FMJ or JSP
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IraqVeteran8888 did a test on AR500 steel (Spartan Armor Systems), LVL3 plates. The basic concept is that speed kills. The 3000+ fps (5.56 FMJ) is able to penetrate and the slower 308 and AK 308 was all stopped. AR500 Armor Systems (brand) at the time made the claim that their lvl3 steels stop 556. Despite the multiple vids of people showing 556 passes thru. That is why I have stayed away from their brand.
This was why I switched from steel to ceramic lvl4. At the time I bought the steel from Spartan Armor Systems, I didn't really know too much and it was on black friday sale. $200 for front/rear/sides and the carrier and free shipping.
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the best way to survive a 5.56 or any other AP rnd is not to get hit. I remember in Vietnam...
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In my opinion many people will regret it if they ditch the 5.56.
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IraqVeteran8888 did a test on AR500 steel (Spartan Armor Systems), LVL3 plates. The basic concept is that speed kills. The 3000+ fps (5.56 FMJ) is able to penetrate and the slower 308 and AK 308 was all stopped. AR500 Armor Systems (brand) at the time made the claim that their lvl3 steels stop 556. Despite the multiple vids of people showing 556 passes thru. That is why I have stayed away from their brand.
This was why I switched from steel to ceramic lvl4. At the time I bought the steel from Spartan Armor Systems, I didn't really know too much and it was on black friday sale. $200 for front/rear/sides and the carrier and free shipping.
have you gone back to review those threads? ???
:rofl:
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(https://i.imgur.com/FY34Jpt.png)
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have you gone back to review those threads? ???
:rofl:
No, but I have since went with a diff plate anyways. Maybe I will review when mrs. CMO is in the hospital. That or bring my PS5 and play some COD.
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have you gone back to review those threads? ???
:rofl:
Interesting read. Was in 2019 and I went with Spartan Arms Lvl 4 ceramics. At the time, my budget didn't allow for what I got now. And IDK if Shotstop even existed in 2019. But you did ask me about damage during shipping or dropping. Shotstop is the only company to smash their Duritium plates (I have these) with a hammer multiple times, then shoot it and it holds up. Their claim is that no need worry about this kind of stuff.
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Spall is another consideration with steel plates. When steel targets were allowed at KHSC, one could see the effects on nearby target legs and targets.
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Interesting read. Was in 2019 and I went with Spartan Arms Lvl 4 ceramics. At the time, my budget didn't allow for what I got now. And IDK if Shotstop even existed in 2019. But you did ask me about damage during shipping or dropping. Shotstop is the only company to smash their Duritium plates (I have these) with a hammer multiple times, then shoot it and it holds up. Their claim is that no need worry about this kind of stuff.
I mostly asked to get your take on how your perception (what you knew) back then, and if it changed. That's why I have threads on my experience(s) over time. I use to have lengthy ones on training, ARs, etc on another site, but that site got shut down. It was interesting to go back every so often and see what I posted years prior. Things change, new informaiton, new products, etc.
At that time, I asked about info for travel as one main consideration I was looking for plates was for classes that required them where I would have to travel. VA and other east coast cities at the time. I asked same/similar questions of those who used plates "for a living" as well. Those folks weren't as concerned, but they also get "refreshed" every so often.
I currently have both steel and composite. The steels ones have the spall coating, and may be getting shot soon(ish). I occasionally use the steel ones to "help" with some exercises. Not quite "the Murph", but along those lines.
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I mostly asked to get your take on how your perception (what you knew) back then, and if it changed. That's why I have threads on my experience(s) over time. I use to have lengthy ones on training, ARs, etc on another site, but that site got shut down. It was interesting to go back every so often and see what I posted years prior. Things change, new informaiton, new products, etc.
At that time, I asked about info for travel as one main consideration I was looking for plates was for classes that required them where I would have to travel. VA and other east coast cities at the time. I asked same/similar questions of those who used plates "for a living" as well. Those folks weren't as concerned, but they also get "refreshed" every so often.
I currently have both steel and composite. The steels ones have the spall coating, and may be getting shot soon(ish). I occasionally use the steel ones to "help" with some exercises. Not quite "the Murph", but along those lines.
I wouldn't say it changed because I learned more, but more like about $. My budget wasn't as big as it is today, so this really limited my options. Maybe I'll create a thread like "Da Pake's Guide to Noob Gun Owners". To put it into perspective on my budget at the time (2016), we used the left over wedding money to buy our first AR and handgun. AR was like $500. Yes, we actually made money on our wedding, compared to most who only get a fraction back.
I think you also posted about the shooting steel plates thing in 2019. LMK and I like come.
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1) I wouldn't say it changed because I learned more, but more like about $. My budget wasn't as big as it is today, so this really limited my options. Maybe I'll create a thread like "Da Pake's Guide to Noob Gun Owners". To put it into perspective on my budget at the time (2016), we used the left over wedding money to buy our first AR and handgun. AR was like $500. Yes, we actually made money on our wedding, compared to most who only get a fraction back.
2) I think you also posted about the shooting steel plates thing in 2019. LMK and I like come.
1) Yeah, that's how it goes. Or like for me, I've gone "full circle" many times. Particularly when it comes to handguns and ARs. I haven't been shooting ARs much lately, but if/when I get back to training and classes, I'm sure things will change. Always does. Looking at a few courses next spring/summer.
2) Shot those already. For this set, if you're around when it happens, you'll see. . . 8)
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2) Shot those already. For this set, if you're around when it happens, you'll see. . . 8)
TFTI
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TFTI
You don't ask for invites. . . if you're not "in", well. . . ;D
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You don't ask for invites. . . if you're not "in", well. . . ;D
Ouch.
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Ouch.
If you donate a case of 5.56, maybe you'll get an invite ;D
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If you donate a case of 5.56, maybe you'll get an invite ;D