Post by: ren on July 31, 2023, 03:02:25 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/illinois-gov-pritzker-allows-non-us-citizens-become-police-officers-new-law-fundamentally-bad-idea (https://www.foxnews.com/media/illinois-gov-pritzker-allows-non-us-citizens-become-police-officers-new-law-fundamentally-bad-idea)
Post by: RSN172 on July 31, 2023, 05:26:43 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on July 31, 2023, 05:50:57 PM
"Officer, I demand to see your Green Card".
edited to add: As stated in the article, this is madness. Pure madness.
Yes in Illinois
Obama started this shit. Was he really a US Citizen? ;)
Post by: eyeeatingfish on July 31, 2023, 09:44:04 PM
The military allows some green card holders to join so I have to wonder if they can join the military, why not the police? Hmmm, tough issue.
Post by: ren on July 31, 2023, 10:03:11 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on July 31, 2023, 10:28:18 PM
Hmmm, tough issue.
You ever consider getting professional help?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on July 31, 2023, 10:36:51 PM
All things equal I think there are far more important measures of whether someone would be a good cop than whether they are a citizen or just have a green card. Having said that this does seem like one of the jobs you might want to be US citizens.
The military allows some green card holders to join so I have to wonder if they can join the military, why not the police? Hmmm, tough issue.
Really?
Are you aware that the US military has no authority to perform law enforcement duties including the authority to arrest non-military members? Even if they arrest a civilian on government property, they normally turn them over to local LE for arrest and prosecution since the UCMJ is only for military members.
Maybe your comparison between military service and LE service would hold more water if you considered that fact.
Non-citizens can join the military because it would not entail law enforcement duties -- among other reasons. They can't become law enforcement because it DOES entail LE duties.
Apples and oranges ... again.
It never ceases to amaze me how much of an expert on military matters you are (not).
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 01, 2023, 01:20:54 PM
All things equal I think there are far more important measures of whether someone would be a good cop than whether they are a citizen or just have a green card. Having said that this does seem like one of the jobs you might want to be US citizens.
The military allows some green card holders to join so I have to wonder if they can join the military, why not the police? Hmmm, tough issue.
100th battalion/442 regiment (Army) has a big number from/in America Samoa. They're not US citizens. The body mass index for them had to be adjusted because of their common size. And I know a few officers who were told not to make fun of or degrade their soldiers family because you will get into a fight. The Samoans don't take crap if you talk about their family.
Then you have HPD denying multiple people their permit to acquire because they're not a US citizen, but a legal permanent resident on more than 1 occasion. Recently, HI lost in court because they denied an American Samoan (not a US citizen).
Post by: ren on August 01, 2023, 01:37:27 PM
You ever consider getting professional help?
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=50669.0
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 01, 2023, 10:23:04 PM
You ever consider getting professional help?
You ever consider articulating a response? Your insult seems like a distraction to the question I posed.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 01, 2023, 10:25:38 PM
Really?
Yes. I thought you would have known this...
Quote
Are you aware that the US military has no authority to perform law enforcement duties including the authority to arrest non-military members? Even if they arrest a civilian on government property, they normally turn them over to local LE for arrest and prosecution since the UCMJ is only for military members.
Yes I am aware of these facts.
Quote
Maybe your comparison between military service and LE service would hold more water if you considered that fact.
Non-citizens can join the military because it would not entail law enforcement duties -- among other reasons. They can't become law enforcement because it DOES entail LE duties.
Apples and oranges ... again.
It never ceases to amaze me how much of an expert on military matters you are (not).
All those words and yet you didn't articulate a single reason why a green card holder should not be able to perform any law enforcement tasks.
Post by: ren on August 01, 2023, 10:34:18 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 01, 2023, 10:37:21 PM
100th battalion/442 regiment (Army) has a big number from/in America Samoa. They're not US citizens. The body mass index for them had to be adjusted because of their common size. And I know a few officers who were told not to make fun of or degrade their soldiers family because you will get into a fight. The Samoans don't take crap if you talk about their family.
Then you have HPD denying multiple people their permit to acquire because they're not a US citizen, but a legal permanent resident on more than 1 occasion. Recently, HI lost in court because they denied an American Samoan (not a US citizen).
And those were American Citizens denying those rights. Do you think a green card holder would be less capable, less motivated, or in any other way less suited for the job than an American Citizen?
The point of my question, that Flapp obviously missed, is not to say that green card holders should be able to become cops rather it is to hear people articulate reasons why they should not be. I was hoping for a smarter discussion about the merits and demerits of having green card holders become cops but well as usual some people are incapable of that simple level of maturity. (Not talking about you just to be clear)
Kudos to Ren for actually giving one reason why this would be an issue.
Post by: ren on August 01, 2023, 10:41:56 PM
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 01, 2023, 10:50:13 PM
Simple explanation. You live here or you don't. I have my own house rules. Why would I go to someone else's home and reinforce my rules there? If they want to live here then be a citizen and uphold our country's laws. Simple. Stop arguing why the sky is blue. Idiot.
Thank you for actually putting forth a line of reasoning.
But if you read my posts again you will see that I never argued non-citizens should be allowed to become cops. Of course any non-idiot could see that....
Post by: Sodie on August 02, 2023, 05:24:40 PM
I was hoping for a smarter discussion about the merits and demerits of having green card holders become cops but well as usual some people are incapable of that simple level of maturity.
You were hoping to find that… here? What, are ya new? 🤣
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 02, 2023, 05:30:58 PM
And those were American Citizens denying those rights. Do you think a green card holder would be less capable, less motivated, or in any other way less suited for the job than an American Citizen?Seeming how hpd denied multiple legal permament residents and US nationals the right to buy a gun (not a 1 time mistake), its a reasonable assumption u gotta be a US citizen to be a cop. Or u cannot carry a gun for duty. Unless hpd gives special treatment to officers and recruits.
The point of my question, that Flapp obviously missed, is not to say that green card holders should be able to become cops rather it is to hear people articulate reasons why they should not be. I was hoping for a smarter discussion about the merits and demerits of having green card holders become cops but well as usual some people are incapable of that simple level of maturity. (Not talking about you just to be clear)
Kudos to Ren for actually giving one reason why this would be an issue.
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Post by: QUIETShooter on August 02, 2023, 05:52:24 PM
Simple explanation. You live here or you don't. I have my own house rules. Why would I go to someone else's home and reinforce my rules there? If they want to live here then be a citizen and uphold our country's laws. Simple. Stop arguing why the sky is blue. Idiot.
This right here. Plain and simple.
Post by: Sodie on August 02, 2023, 06:15:16 PM
Simple explanation. You live here or you don't. I have my own house rules. Why would I go to someone else's home and reinforce my rules there? If they want to live here then be a citizen and uphold our country's laws. Simple. Stop arguing why the sky is blue. Idiot.
So no green cards for anybody?
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 02, 2023, 08:25:55 PM
United States Army Military Police units have combat zone responsibilities in addition to their law enforcement duties. These responsibilities include mounted and dismounted patrols, response force operations, area damage control, route reconnaissance, cordon and search operations, critical site security, and convoy and personnel escorts. Operationally, these duties fall under the "security and mobility support" discipline of the Military Police Corps.Copy/paste and then followed by a thank u, captain obvious.
I know civilians that ended up in federal court for their actions on government property. They were at a minimum detained. Outside the United States they most definitely practice law enforcement.
Once again, added nothing to the thread.
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Post by: ren on August 02, 2023, 08:30:37 PM
Copy/paste and then followed by a thank u, captain obvious.
Once again, added nothing to the thread.
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CERTIFIED plagiarist! Just like the Joe!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmuAB5MqP0Y
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 02, 2023, 10:08:03 PM
You were hoping to find that… here? What, are ya new? 🤣
Touche!
Post by: eyeeatingfish on August 02, 2023, 10:09:41 PM
Seeming how hpd denied multiple legal permament residents and US nationals the right to buy a gun (not a 1 time mistake), its a reasonable assumption u gotta be a US citizen to be a cop. Or u cannot carry a gun for duty. Unless hpd gives special treatment to officers and recruits.
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I see what you mean now, you are making a legal argument.
I was interested in a line of reasoning why it should be illegal.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 02, 2023, 10:33:26 PM
United States Army Military Police units have combat zone responsibilities in addition to their law enforcement duties. These responsibilities include mounted and dismounted patrols, response force operations, area damage control, route reconnaissance, cordon and search operations, critical site security, and convoy and personnel escorts. Operationally, these duties fall under the "security and mobility support" discipline of the Military Police Corps.
I know civilians that ended up in federal court for their actions on government property. They were at a minimum detained. Outside the United States they most definitely practice law enforcement.
Nothing you said has a thing to do with enforcing US laws against US citizens on US soil.
Unless the US resident alien is a military cop, they would not be doing anything like what you said -- and then it would likely be along the lines of gate or facility security. Most MP/SP cops will hand over any law breakers to the base commander. Usually the scofflaw will be barred from the base in the future. If the infraction is serious, either local or federal (FBI) LE will take over the investigation.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 03, 2023, 07:20:37 AM
You said "US military has no authority to perform law enforcement duties"
You may not get it, but the topic is about non-citizens doing LE on US soil against US residents.
What the military does on foreign soil is a completely different animal. That's not part of our legal system or the Constitution. That is part of military operations in conjunction with foreign military and law enforcement rules of engagement.
Under certain circumstances (national emergencies, etc.) the states have the ability to activate the National Guard to help in disasters, insurrections and so on -- usually to stop looting. That's NOT the same as a LE officer who is routinely enforcing the laws of a given jurisdiction. It takes an act by the Governor or the President to activate the National Guard and use them for any LE purposes.
So, no, the military -- under normal conditions -- have no authority to perform LE duties UNLESS they are deployed to a foreign land OR an executive office authorizes them for a specific situation to help local law enforcement.
Let me know if you can find an instance of an active duty military member doing traffic stops and issuing speeding tickets -- even in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Quote
Generally speaking, using active duty troops in America does not involvehttps://veteran.com/military-civilian-law-enforcement/
law enforcement roles UNLESS these troops are activated under the
Insurrection Act. Other ways U.S. troops can be used for domestic law
enforcement include situations dealing with weapons of mass destruction,
nuclear materials, counter drug operations, and counter-terrorism.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 03, 2023, 04:53:55 PM
So I guess you just mistyped.
No. I forgot who i was replying to.
It takes too much effort to post every single detail and nuance so people (like you) with no idea what they are talking about won't think Google is smarter.
There are exceptions with every rule. I stand by the rule I "typed."
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 03, 2023, 07:14:36 PM
No. I forgot who i was replying to.Plus when xhes told to read entire threads, xhe doesnt. Cause this answers alot of post xhe does.
It takes too much effort to post every single detail and nuance so people (like you) with no idea what they are talking about won't think Google is smarter.
There are exceptions with every rule. I stand by the rule I "typed."
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Post by: hvybarrels on August 03, 2023, 08:32:43 PM
(https://assets.catawiki.com/image/pr:cw_large/plain/assets/catawiki/assets/2017/11/26/2/c/a/2cafef89-f0fb-4783-a4bf-f91f1f13b870.jpg)
Post by: ren on August 03, 2023, 08:44:26 PM
Plus when xhes told to read entire threads, xhe doesnt. Cause this answers alot of post xhe does.
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Just like disregarding the RO's
Post by: mrgaf on August 08, 2023, 07:47:01 PM
Yes in Illinois
https://www.foxnews.com/media/illinois-gov-pritzker-allows-non-us-citizens-become-police-officers-new-law-fundamentally-bad-idea (https://www.foxnews.com/media/illinois-gov-pritzker-allows-non-us-citizens-become-police-officers-new-law-fundamentally-bad-idea)
Well that’s one way of getting rid of illegals….give them a badge and a gun…. :thumbsup:
Post by: changemyoil66 on August 08, 2023, 10:03:07 PM
Well that’s one way of getting rid of illegals….give them a badge and a gun….Or give a politically, legal alien in. Then when they apply to be a cop, pass them due to politics. Then he shoots and kills a woman in her own driveway while she was walking on it.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on August 10, 2023, 06:04:18 PM
The real issue is non-citizens being given the right to vote. CA cities are already going down that road.
The argument will be, "If a non-resident can serve in law enforcement -- a government (tax payer) funded position -- as well as pay their taxes and so forth, then why are they not being allowed to vote? If they ACT like citizens, then should they not be afforded the same rights and privileges as citizens?
Pay attention to what's going on at the border. Our country is being invaded .... literally. And giving someone a green card, a badge and a gun is just one more step along the path to more Democrat voters -- potentially in the tens of millions.
Nothing is ever as simple as they tell you. It's all connected.