2aHawaii
General Topics => Off Topic => Topic started by: Flapp_Jackson on October 01, 2023, 03:57:12 PM
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If you work as a server or bartender, and your employer requires tips be "pooled" and shared among everyone including non-tipped workers, your employer is breaking the law.
Ordinarily, wait staff gets paid below minimum wage with the expectation that tips will supplement their hourly wages to meet or hopefully exceed the minimum wage requirement.
According to the Federal government, those tips belong to the worker who received them from the customers -- especially if tips are needed to make minimum wage. Pooling all tips and sharing the total among all workers seems to be common practice, so apparently managers don't know the law.
I don't know, but i would assume this doesn't apply to places like Starbucks which pays employees above minimum, and then pools tips to be fair to the whole team who might not be serving customers at the register.
https://youtu.be/r9SDDV57wPU
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I prefer to tip in cash to the server and try my best to make sure it is that server that gets the tip, not her co-workers. Maybe they still share the tips but I prefer to make sure the one who gave me good service is the one who gets the cash tip.
Then what he/she does after that is up to them.
When I'm at the busy buffets in Vegas there are so many workers and people milling about that I often get paranoid if the tip on the table we leave is not "snatched" by a wrong worker or worse, an evil customer. Again, maybe they pool their tips not sure.
But I will definitely track down a server who treated us with service that was extraordinary and was genuinely caring, friendly, and accommodating. I hand their generous tip to them personally.
I personally think the tipping culture in the US is getting out of hand. Some workers get downright nasty if we opt not to tip and they practically do nothing to deserve one.
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I don’t think labor laws allow anyone to get paid below the minimum wage. My daughter is a server, gets minimum wage but has a six figure income.
She works at a high end place and has had as much as $500 tip from a single table.
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I don’t think labor laws allow anyone to get paid below the minimum wage. My daughter is a server, gets minimum wage but has a six figure income.
She works at a high end place and has had as much as $500 tip from a single table.
It's been this way at least since the 80s when I was a Pizza Hut cook.
Waitresses (now the pc term is servers) were getting an hourly amount below federal minimum. They needed to keep a ledger to record tips for each day/night they worked.
At the end of the pay period, if they didn't make enough to attain minimum wage, then the store had to pay them the minimum. Needless to say, a watress who was routinely unable to meet the minimum wage after adding her tips wouldn't be working there long.
About 1985, the IRS started requiring businesses with tipped employees to estimate the % of their revenue that those employees should be making. If the individual thought the estimate was too high (i.e. caused them to pay too much in taxes), they'd again have to show evidence of actual tips such as a ledger they write in after each shift.
My ex was a waitress when we met in college. She made really great money in Bethesda, MD, when she went home for Summer and other breaks. Best tips were at Beefsteak Charlies'. Plus she got wonderful food and beer for free.
But, even there, she was on the payroll making less than minimum before tips.
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I don’t think labor laws allow anyone to get paid below the minimum wage.
Depends on the state.
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What normally happens is the waitstaff voluntarily split some tips with kitchen and other staff like bussers, etc...I say "voluntarily" as it's a customer or protocol to do so. But there are places like the above that force it or I've even seen some places on TV where the owner keeps the tips. I always wondered why anyone would work at a place where the owner keeps the tips and then decides what to give you. Suckers if you ask me.
Then there's the age old topic of how much to tip. It's just as bad as the 9mm vs. 45acp arguments.
HHN did a story about the recent kitchen fee's added to bills. They said it was illegal to do without an obvious notice, like a sign in the front. When I get this kitchen fee, I just minus it from what I would have tipped without the fee and I write on the bill this as well, so they know. Also I tip cash usually as taxation is theft.
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Somewhere on the Dine-in menu at Zippy's they state about their "kitchen fee" I think it's 3% added on to the bill.
States something about worker retention and offsets expenses, yada yada yada.......
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Somewhere on the Dine-in menu at Zippy's they state about their "kitchen fee" I think it's 3% added on to the bill.
States something about worker retention and offsets expenses, yada yada yada.......
Just as bad as resort fees for stuff you don't use or don't want.
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Just as bad as resort fees for stuff you don't use or don't want.
Worse .... it's like a car lot manager tacking on all those hidden up-charges and fees that make you pay way more than you thought when you agreed/ordered.
When a $25 meal tacks on tip, taxes and fees to become a $34 charge, it's no longer a $25 meal. $9 is 36% more than the price you saw on the menu.
That's how they get you.
But, hey! At least the minimum wage workers can get $15/hour!
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I just read a Civil Beat article i stumbled upon that gives more details on Hawaii's "tip credit" scheme.
Currently, the state minimum wage is $12/hr. That will increase to $14/hr on 1/1/2024.
According to the law:
Section 387-2, HRS, also provides that an employer may pay tipped employees less
than the applicable minimum wage if the tipped employee customarily and regularly
receives more than $20 a month in tips and the combined amount of wages and
tips is more than the applicable minimum wage as shown in the table below...
Extracting the line from the table that applies to the 2023 $12/hr minimum:
Combined Wage + Tips Must Equal at Least $ per Hour:
$12.00 + $7.00 tips = $19.00 per hour
Maximum Allowed Tip Credit Towards Minimum Wage:
$1.00
Adjusted Minimum Wage Less Tip Credit:
$11.00
Effective:
October 1, 2022 to December 31, 2023
So, if a tipped employee makes at least the minimum in tips (avg $7/hr), then the employer can lower the salary of that employee by the maximum "tip credit", which is $1. That means aside from tips, the employee is making $11/hr -- $1 less than minimum.
The tip average is obtained by adding the tips received in a week, then dividing that by the number of hours worked. So, a bad tip-day can be offset by better days if in the same week.
The law as passed in 2022 says:
2024 Minimum wage will be $14/hr
The maximum tip credit would be $1.25
The resulting minimum wages after the tip credit would be $12.75/hr
for employees making at least wages+tips = $21/hr.
Last Jan, the lawmakers put forward a bill to calculate future wage/tip credits as a straight 20% of the minimum wage. That would have resulted in a credit of $2.80/hr for the employer -- more than double the scheduled $1.25 credit in the law. That would have reduced the required wages paid to $11.20 versus $12.75.
I checked the status, and SB125 was last deferred in Feb 2023, so it looks DOA.
Senate Bill 125 would increase the “tip credit” amount to match 20%
of the Hawaii minimum wage, starting Jan. 1, 2024.
More than 100,000 people in Hawaii work in the leisure and hospitality
industries, where tips are common, according to the 2022 jobs report by
the Department of Business, Economic Development and Tourism.
Wakai said he understands that this bill could reduce the paychecks of
tens of thousands of people in Hawaii, as a way to redirect that money
intended for minimum-wage workers back into the hands of business
owners. But he said inflation and increases in labor costs could ultimately
push more restaurant owners into changes that would cut jobs, such as
automating their front-end interactions. So in that respect, he said, this
change could be a job saver.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/01/tourists-guns-business-heres-what-hawaii-lawmakers-plan-to-tackle-in-2023/
https://labor.hawaii.gov/wsd/files/2022/06/Tip_Credit_Notice_with_exhibits_June2022.pdf
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=125&year=2023
************
Anyway, this is just to follow up in case anyone was still curious whether Hawaii allows employers to pay tipped employees less than the minimum.
The answer is "yes, but only if the employee makes enough over and above the actual minimum wage to allow the employer to take the tip credit."
:shaka:
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I prefer to tip in cash
I copied this from someone else.
"I have really never thought of this has anyone else?
Please understand what NOT using cash is doing.
Why should we pay cash everywhere we can with banknotes instead of a credit card?
I have a $50 banknote in my pocket.
Going to a restaurant and paying for dinner with it.
The restaurant owner then uses the bill to pay for the laundry.
The laundry owner then uses the bill to pay the barber.
The barber will then use the bill for shopping.
After an unlimited number of payments, it will still remain a $50, which has fulfilled its purpose to everyone who used it for payment and the bank has jumped dry from every cash payment transaction made...
But if I come to a restaurant and pay digitally - Card, and bank fees for my payment transaction charged to the seller are 3%, so around $1.50 and so will the fee $1.50 for each further payment transaction or owner re laundry or payments of the owner of the laundry shop, or payments of the barber etc.....
Therefore, after 30 transactions, the initial $50 will remain only $5 and the remaining $45 became the property of the bank thanks to all digital transactions and fees.
Small businesses need your help and this is one way to help ourselves too.
Pull small draws of cash out at a time and use that instead of tap, credit, etc.
When this is put into perspective, imagine what each retailer is paying on a monthly basis in fees at 3% per transaction through their POS machine.
If they have, for example, $50,000 in sales & 90% are by Card, they are paying $1500 in fees in ONE Month. $18,000 in a year! That comes out of their income every month.
That would go a long way to helping that small business provide for its family! ''
to the server and try my best to make sure it is that server that gets the tip, not her co-workers. Maybe they still share the tips but I prefer to make sure the one who gave me good service is the one who gets the cash tip.
Then what he/she does after that is up to them.
" Back in the daze", I was on the sophomore work study program as a bus boy at IHOP.
Bus boys did dishes, cleared tables and supplied the cooks.
We (and cooks) were tipped by the waitresses.
One Sunday I was the only bus boy there (changed jackets several times due to sweat) and the waitresses made out great and so did I, including drinks at there place after work ! :love:
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I try my best to tip cash, as taxation is theft. It's up to them if they want to report the theft or not.
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When you pay $50 for a meal, the cost of overhead, including credit card fees, is figured into the $50 you paid.
So, given a 3% fee, the meal actually only cost you $48.54 -- i assume including gratuity and tax (not stated in the long example). Adding the 3% increases your cost to $50 total whether you pay by cash or card.
What most don't understand is that 3% fee exists as part of your bill whether or not you use cash. So, if you use cash, the restaurant gets to keep that fee that would have otherwise gone to the bank.
The only time this isn't the case is if a business offers either a discount for using cash (like some gas stations do on the mainland) or tacks on an additional amount for credit card sales (like gun sellers routinely do). The vast majority of consumers simply pay the fee no matter how they pay.
The $50 being spent several times doesn't diminish the value of the $50. It just means a portion of that amount is covering the credit card fees that the businesses are passing along to the consumer. Either the bank earns that 3%, or the business gets to keep it. The fee comes out of your pocket on top of whatever the meal costs.
It's an accounting thing. whether it's cash or credit, your $50 pays for what you received (food that is cooked, service, a place to sit, refills on your beverages, etc.), the lights, water and sewer services, taxes, labor (cooks, dishwashers, wait staff, managers), marketing, building repairs and maintenance, worker's comp and other insurance, and a litany of other expenses the business must pay in order to serve you that meal. Credit card fees are simply another cost of doing business rolled up with all the rest whether or not your particular meal was paid for with cash.
:popcorn:
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I try my best to tip cash, as taxation is theft. It's up to them if they want to report the theft or not.
The IRS uses estimates of what a server should have been tipped based on the amount of revenue the business brought in.
Unless the server keeps records of cash tips received proving they made less than the estimate, the server doesn't have the choice of paying the taxes or not. They pay what the IRS says they owe using the amount the restaurant made as a starting point.
The IRS has different rules for tipped employees to make sure they aren't pocketing cash without reporting it, at least to a certain degree. Why else would they put "Wages, tips and salary" for your earned income on your W-2? Tips are being tracked.
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I got an idea, how about we do away with this stupid tip culture once and for all. Pay workers better and expect them to provide good service as part of their job. So many other countries don't have this tip culture and it is just so much easier for the customer. Places expect tips for everything now, a big jar on the counter, a screen on the payment tablet where they don't even list 15% as a default, etc.
I think I saw one restaurant here where they had a sign saying no tips, that the price of the food includes quality pay for their workers.
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I got an idea, how about we do away with this stupid tip culture once and for all. Pay workers better and expect them to provide good service as part of their job. So many other countries don't have this tip culture and it is just so much easier for the customer. Places expect tips for everything now, a big jar on the counter, a screen on the payment tablet where they don't even list 15% as a default, etc.
I think I saw one restaurant here where they had a sign saying no tips, that the price of the food includes quality pay for their workers.
In the case of where my daughter works, they would have to pay her about $52 an hour to equal what she is currently earning with minimum wage plus tips. Don't think her employer could afford to pay the wait staff like that or charge enough to cover. Prices would be so high there would be no customers.
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In the case of where my daughter works, they would have to pay her about $52 an hour to equal what she is currently earning with minimum wage plus tips. Don't think her employer could afford to pay the wait staff like that or charge enough to cover. Prices would be so high there would be no customers.
Back in the 1984 timeframe, my ex told me she made almost $400+ on one table she served. There was a group of about 6-8 Japanese businessmen (This is in Bethesda), and the check for the table was about $200.
That place had a smallish menu of great items, like chicken and ribs, steak and chicken, steak and ribs -- you get the picture. Basically more food than most people can finish not to mention the sides, and it came with the all-you-can-eat salad bar of at least 30 items plus all-you-can-drink beer, wine and/or Sangria.
I have a feeling the all-you-can drink factored into her tip. Two men fought over who would get the honor of paying the check. Then they decided one would get the check, and one would get the tip.
So, the first guy put down his $200 give or take, then the tipster put down $100 tip.
That made the first guy embarrassed that the check was nothing more than $200, so he added another $100 to the tip. The two guys kept tossing out money on top of the tip until someone in the group said enough.
My ex wound up with the lion's share of over $400, and she shared with the others in the kitchen and on the floor who.
I wish that was the norm, but it's not. Normally she made about $300-450 in tips per 6 hour shift at night. Weekends were best, of course.
That's an average of $66/hour in just tips. If I remember, she mainly worked the busiest nights and took 2-3 days off midweek.
It was hard work being on her feet all night and being nice to people who aren't always the nicest to servers. But, it beat the heck out of most gigs.
While still in school, she worked a couple of Summers at Chesapeake Bay Seafood House. Great food and it's all you can eat. Whatever you order as your main entree you can then reorder anything else on the menu of equal or lesser price. The steamed king crab legs were at the top. Get that, and you own the menu -- or it owns you!
Remember, this was in the mid-80's. prices and wages are much higher now, as is the tipping if the same percentages are used. (15-20%).
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In the case of where my daughter works, they would have to pay her about $52 an hour to equal what she is currently earning with minimum wage plus tips. Don't think her employer could afford to pay the wait staff like that or charge enough to cover. Prices would be so high there would be no customers.
From the coverage I have seen of this issue, when restaurants implement these policies the cooks and other staff tend to love it since they don't usually get tips even if they work super hard. The wait staff tend to hate it though because the hardest workers, especially at higher end places make serious money.
It is not a knock against waiters either, I just think it a system we don't need. Some industries get tips, others don't, it seems kind of arbitrary. Do you tip a dentist for a good teeth cleaning? Do you tip the post office man for a quickly delivered package? Do you tip the guy at Jiffy Lube for changing your car oil? I got rather used to restaurants in Japan, they are almost always polite by default and very often they have a large pitcher of ice water so I can refill my water myself, the only thing left is simply get my order correct and I am happy.
Seems like too many people here expect a tip, there isn't always the attitude of earning it. On top of that I feel guilty if I don't give a tip even if the service was bad (maybe that's just me?) so does the tip mean anything or is it just a social obligation?
I worked as a cook at Pizza hut for almost 2 years. I could be super friendly on the phone, make the pizza super quick and accurate but the driver is the one who benefitted. I did have one driver who would give the cooks about $3+/- a day out of his tips which was nice, especially for a high school kid, but it wasn't the norm for all the drivers.
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Ever been to the Vegas Buffets and there are tip jars by the omelet station, the carving station, and the crepes and stir fry stations?
What's up with that? Don't these guys make a decent wage?
Pretty soon there's gonna be tip jars every ten ft. for the buffet tray filler-uppers, the crab legs replenish craftsmen, and the peel and eat shrimp display specialists.
Oh, and let's not forget the salad and fruit arrangement artists.
Ah wait.....the dessert people......hey look, the cashier has a jar by her register...... :rofl:
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In the old days I would tip the rubbish man, as did most of the locals at Christmas time. Most would give beer. I would give cases of soda and juice since they already get a huge amount of beer. My wife's cousin worked as a garbage man before they had the one arm bandit trucks. Every Christmas he would end up with about a 100 cases of beer. He kept about 20 cases to drink and sold the rest for $5 a case. This was during the days when beer was about $8-10 a case of 24.
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Ever been to the Vegas Buffets and there are tip jars by the omelet station, the carving station, and the crepes and stir fry stations?
What's up with that? Don't these guys make a decent wage?
Pretty soon there's gonna be tip jars every ten ft. for the buffet tray filler-uppers, the crab legs replenish craftsmen, and the peel and eat shrimp display specialists.
Oh, and let's not forget the salad and fruit arrangement artists.
Ah wait.....the dessert people......hey look, the cashier has a jar by her register...... :rofl:
Las Vegas is an outlier in the population of tip-hungry entities.
The first time I went to Vegas from HI, I stayed at Circus-Circus in the "remote" motel-type buildings between the casino and RV areas.
Normally, there's a automated train that shuttles guests between the casino and remote buildings similar to the shuttles between airport terminals.
On one particular day, the shuttle was down, so the casino provided a little shuttle bus. As I was exiting the vehicle, there was a box with a hand-written sign for tips next to the door.
Wow. If the shuttle was working, no tip. With the shuttle down, the driver expects tips. I pretended to not see the tip box when I exited.
No matter who you interact with for any reason at all, 9 times out of 10 they expect a tip. Most would not even give you the time of day unless they believe you will tip them.
So, don't make Vegas part of the tip discussions as an example. No other place I've visited operates on tips the way that place does.
JMHO
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Someone once told me that if the waiter was bad, it is better to give a tiny tip than no tip at all. That way they get the message that the service was bad instead of thinking you forgot.
My gramma once went to a restaurant and she gave a tip that was like 14% and the waiter brought it back to tell her the tip wasn't 15% so she said thank you, took the tip cash back and walked out leaving him with nothing.
Then there is this gem from an uber eats type driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URgcqjFoomw
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Las Vegas is an outlier in the population of tip-hungry entities.
The first time I went to Vegas from HI, I stayed at Circus-Circus in the "remote" motel-type buildings between the casino and RV areas.
Normally, there's a automated train that shuttles guests between the casino and remote buildings similar to the shuttles between airport terminals.
On one particular day, the shuttle was down, so the casino provided a little shuttle bus. As I was exiting the vehicle, there was a box with a hand-written sign for tips next to the door.
Wow. If the shuttle was working, no tip. With the shuttle down, the driver expects tips. I pretended to not see the tip box when I exited.
No matter who you interact with for any reason at all, 9 times out of 10 they expect a tip. Most would not even give you the time of day unless they believe you will tip them.
So, don't make Vegas part of the tip discussions as an example. No other place I've visited operates on tips the way that place does.
JMHO
So some sneaky things that happen in Vegas.
If you don't tip the bellman who calls you a cab, he may tell the cabby the wrong place. Then when you get there, you are forced to pay as they will call the cops and the cops side with the cab drivers. This happened to us cause I heard the bellman give the wrong destination. The cabby told me this and it's common for people not to listen while getting in.
Ate at Ramsey's Steak House at Paris. Spent $500 for just the 2 of us and only 2 glasses of wine. The busser was doing a great job, kept my water filled and over poured Mrs. CMO's wine. But the waiter didn't give us the time of day. Instead the waiter was more concerned with the older couple next to use who the guy was wearing a sports coat. He didn't know them as he asked them where they're from. All they ordered was 1 app, shared 1 entree and a few glasses wine each. I doubt their bill was as big as ours. We had 3 apps, 2 entrees, 2 desserts and 2 glasses wine. So because of this, I tipped the guy $1 but gave $50 to the busser and told him "fuck the waiter, this is for you". At the time, we weren't getting the comps we're getting now and had to pay for our room. I was going to tip 20% had he done his job. So he just lost out on $100. I didn't see what the other couple tipped as they paid with a card. We both felt like because of our age, he treated us differently. The waiter never even came by after we got our food to check on us. Didn't really bother me too much because I saved money not having to tip $100. And had the busser not been awesome, I would have saved $99.
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So some sneaky things that happen in Vegas.
...
One thing that i had to learn from a co-worker who just happened to be in Vegas while I was there was I'm supposed to tip housekeeping.
I'd never heard that before, and at the time, $2/night of your stay was deemed customary -- so I was told.
Since then, I've noticed other places in other states had cards out recommending tips for housekeeping.
So, if I tip them after I've checked out, I get no benefit -- no extra service for my generosity. If I don't tip, there's no possible way for them to retaliate (like the bellman you mentioned). Seems like a waste of a good tip when you get the service you get whether you tip at the end or not.
I mean, how many ways can housekeeping go above and beyond if you never see them? I'd tip if they left extra towels or soap in response to my request, or if they cleaned the room or turned it down at my request outside of normal hours for those services. I've slept in after a really long 2 days of no sleep and called housekeeping to arrange cleaning after I left for dinner. I tipped $5 for that.
If everybody tips everybody, then the size of the tip can be smaller per tipper. The person gets enough tips in an hour if they work hard. But the way tipping works now, the good tippers are merely making up for the bad tippers. Unless you leave an extremely large tip, it usually goes unnoticed as "what's expected".
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Another time we were at Premium Outlet North and got in the cab line to go to Downtown Main Street hotel. The cabby said he didn; tknow where that is so go in the cab behind him. We did and the new driver said the guy in front was full of shit, cause he just wanted a longer fair. So we tipped him $10 on a $12 cab ride.
Then another time outside Circus Circus, a cab driver slowed donw and then drove by us after we hailed him down and instead went much further down to pick up a couple who had suitcases who didn't hail him.
Of course we've had more normal XP with cabby;s than bad ones, but it goes to show why Uber is booming instead of cabs. I would see 15+ Ubers arrive and pick people up from the ride share area of a hotel before 1 person got into a cab.
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Another time we were at Premium Outlet North and got in the cab line to go to Downtown Main Street hotel. The cabby said he didn; tknow where that is so go in the cab behind him. We did and the new driver said the guy in front was full of shit, cause he just wanted a longer fair. So we tipped him $10 on a $12 cab ride.
Then another time outside Circus Circus, a cab driver slowed donw and then drove by us after we hailed him down and instead went much further down to pick up a couple who had suitcases who didn't hail him.
Of course we've had more normal XP with cabby;s than bad ones, but it goes to show why Uber is booming instead of cabs. I would see 15+ Ubers arrive and pick people up from the ride share area of a hotel before 1 person got into a cab.
The thing about Uber and Lyft is you already know what the ride will cost you before getting into the vehicle. Tipping can be done in cash or using the app -- 100% of tips go to the driver.
With cabs, sitting in a line of cars because of a backup means you pay more for that time just sitting. Ride shares charge for the distance between pickup and drop off.
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The thing about Uber and Lyft is you already know what the ride will cost you before getting into the vehicle. Tipping can be done in cash or using the app -- 100% of tips go to the driver.
With cabs, sitting in a line of cars because of a backup means you pay more for that time just sitting. Ride shares charge for the distance between pickup and drop off.
I think the biggest pro when Uber type first emerged is that the driver can't take you for a ride to increase the fair. Although we don't live in Vegas, I 'm pretty sure in the past some cabby's took us for a ride. But I didn't mind at the time because it allowed us to see more of the city.
HNN this morning had a national thing on tipping and now 20% is the norm due to inflation that they were blaming on COVID. Some national org was on making this statement.
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Tip fatigue...
(No, it's not a euphemism for E.D. :rofl:)
https://youtube.com/shorts/HxQbsXhknd0
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Taking tipping away from servers would destroy restaurants. As someone who’s been a server for over a decade I can tell you they would not be able to pay me a single dollar less than what they do now. Unless you want food prices to increase 20% to cover the cost of paying good servers to stay around tipping us the best idea they have. Tips are to ensure that you get proper service. I understand that some people in the service industry have come to expect tips ( 15-20%) even with shitty service and that’s wrong, but you can’t throw out tipping as a whole.
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Taking tipping away from servers would destroy restaurants. As someone who’s been a server for over a decade I can tell you they would not be able to pay me a single dollar less than what they do now. Unless you want food prices to increase 20% to cover the cost of paying good servers to stay around tipping us the best idea they have. Tips are to ensure that you get proper service. I understand that some people in the service industry have come to expect tips ( 15-20%) even with shitty service and that’s wrong, but you can’t throw out tipping as a whole.
Not true. Prices would have to adjust to afford at least minimum wages for formerly tip-credit employees.
There are plenty of restaurants without tipping that do quite well, in particular fast food. How many food service chains have employees making minimum wage even though employees also get tips? Starbucks comes to mind -- in fact every store like them has a tip jar on the counter.
Food prices won't increase 20%. Tip credits vary by state, but in Hawaii, the it's only about 9%-10%, meaning that's what the business realizes in labor savings. A 20% tip benefits the servers an additional 10%, not the restaurant. To break even, the restaurant only needs to raise prices by that credit amount.
Of course, that assumes the servers will work for minimum wage plus any voluntary tips they earn. if the restaurants feel they need to raise wages to attact better employees, then the better service will normally support even higher prices. People are often willing to pay extra for a better dining experience.
I know many Waikiki restaurants have separate menus for Japanese visitors containing higher prices because Japanese visitors don't often tip. Those places don't seem to be closing their doors due to a good part of their customers not tipping while paying more.
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Not true. Prices would have to adjust to afford at least minimum wages for formerly tip-credit employees.
There are plenty of restaurants without tipping that do quite well, in particular fast food. How many food service chains have employees making minimum wage even though employees also get tips? Starbucks comes to mind -- in fact every store like them has a tip jar on the counter.
Food prices won't increase 20%. Tip credits vary by state, but in Hawaii, the it's only about 9%-10%, meaning that's what the business realizes in labor savings. A 20% tip benefits the servers an additional 10%, not the restaurant. To break even, the restaurant only needs to raise prices by that credit amount.
Of course, that assumes the servers will work for minimum wage plus any voluntary tips they earn. if the restaurants feel they need to raise wages to attact better employees, then the better service will normally support even higher prices. People are often willing to pay extra for a better dining experience.
I know many Waikiki restaurants have separate menus for Japanese visitors containing higher prices because Japanese visitors don't often tip. Those places don't seem to be closing their doors due to a good part of their customers not tipping while paying more.
I meant the quality of the restaurants would suffer not that the business would not be able to find some way to survive.
And I agree that people are willing to pay more for better service. Which is the entire point of tipping.
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I meant the quality of the restaurants would suffer not that the business would not be able to find some way to survive.
And I agree that people are willing to pay more for better service. Which is the entire point of tipping.
I must have misunderstood "Taking tipping away from servers would destroy restaurants."
i didn't know 'quality of restaurants would suffer" meant the same as "destroy."
I need a new dictionary.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Al6ieVDDs
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLG3pX6tNv0
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Taking tipping away from servers would destroy restaurants. As someone who’s been a server for over a decade I can tell you they would not be able to pay me a single dollar less than what they do now. Unless you want food prices to increase 20% to cover the cost of paying good servers to stay around tipping us the best idea they have. Tips are to ensure that you get proper service. I understand that some people in the service industry have come to expect tips ( 15-20%) even with shitty service and that’s wrong, but you can’t throw out tipping as a whole.
I have been to one or two restaurants in Hawaii where they had a sign saying they don't accept tips, that a good salary for the workers is covered in the price of the food. I know that made my food more expensive but I liked it better.
I have been to a couple other countries where tipping waiters is not standard and I never had a problem with poor service as a result. I think my water doesn't get filled as often without asking but the servers weren't rude or sloppy with our food.
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This is how crazy tipping has gotten.
This driver is holding a $400 food order hostage trying to extort a tip from the customer.
Instead of leaving the food and moving on with her day, she's taking the food back to the store and risking getting fired.
Entitled people are everywhere and they have nothing to do with White Privilege. It's about selfish, arrogant people who think the world owes them a comfortable living.
I'm shocked nobody called 911 to report the theft. Once that food was paid for, it was the customer's property. Taking it back to the store and saying a refund will be issued doesn't excuse the theft. She could have said she's going to give the food to a soup kitchen to feed the homeless. It doesn't matter. The food is not hers to return or give away. Doesn't matter if she doesn't keep it -- it's theft.
https://youtu.be/LCoqpfeHsqs
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This is how crazy tipping has gotten.
This driver is holding a $400 food order hostage trying to extort a tip from the customer.
Instead of leaving the food and moving on with her day, she's taking the food back to the store and risking getting fired.
Entitled people are everywhere and they have nothing to do with White Privilege. It's about selfish, arrogant people who think the world owes them a comfortable living.
I'm shocked nobody called 911 to report the theft. Once that food was paid for, it was the customer's property. Taking it back to the store and saying a refund will be issued doesn't excuse the theft. She could have said she's going to give the food to a soup kitchen to feed the homeless. It doesn't matter. The food is not hers to return or give away. Doesn't matter if she doesn't keep it -- it's theft.
https://youtu.be/LCoqpfeHsqs
I don’t know much about instacart but if it’s like serving where tipping is how you make money then I totally understand the delivery lady. At one point she says “you paid the app not me” so I’m assuming she gets paid through tipping, how do you just expect someone to complete a job knowing that you won’t get paid? This would not work in literally any other profession where a service is provided.
If you’re going to use a service like instacart there is a social contract that you sign up for. Use the service and tip the person (again I’m assuming from what I gather in the video) who is providing the service. Otherwise get your lazy fucken ass to the store and grab groceries yourself. Better yet, tell the person upfront that you aren’t going to tip them and see how that works out.
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This is how crazy tipping has gotten.
This driver is holding a $400 food order hostage trying to extort a tip from the customer.
Driver was wrong in what she did. Tips are optional and she has to do her job regardless. I dunno how this confrontation started, but tips are supposed to be given at the end of a transaction, after all the food is delivered with good service.
But the customer also has to see it from the drivers perspective where drivers make most of their money from tips so they should at least give a small tip if it were not for the confrontation.
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Driver was wrong in what she did. Tips are optional and she has to do her job regardless. I dunno how this confrontation started, but tips are supposed to be given at the end of a transaction, after all the food is delivered with good service.
But the customer also has to see it from the drivers perspective where drivers make most of their money from tips so they should at least give a small tip if it were not for the confrontation.
Tipping is only optional if you got shitty service or if you’re a POS person. Expecting someone to “do her job regardless” of getting paid is wild to me.
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Instacart shoppers get paid separately from tips, but not a lot.
You don’t get to demand a tip under any circumstances. Don’t like the rules? Don’t work in a service job. The possibility of not getting a tip is an occupational hazard.
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I think everyone deserves a tip. Tip for showing up to work. Tip for showing up to class. Tip for being a minority. Tip for being nice. Tips for everyone! :shaka:
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I deserve a tip for giving out tips.
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Instacart shoppers get paid separately from tips, but not a lot.
You don’t get to demand a tip under any circumstances. Don’t like the rules? Don’t work in a service job. The possibility of not getting a tip is an occupational hazard.
No one is saying you get to demand a tip “under any circumstances” can you point out anyone who said that? Don’t strawman the argument.
Your thinking is backward. How about instead of criticizing employees who get upset for providing a service and not getting paid maybe you should actually criticize the person who CHOSE to employ a tipped worker and decided to stiff them so they could take advantage of a cheaper option. The fact that it’s a “rule” should not prevent you from understanding that.
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I think everyone deserves a tip. Tip for showing up to work. Tip for showing up to class. Tip for being a minority. Tip for being nice. Tips for everyone! :shaka:
My wife can have my tip when I get home from work.
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Tipping is only optional if you got shitty service or if you’re a POS person. Expecting someone to “do her job regardless” of getting paid is wild to me.
I agree that people should tip if it's a service that should be tipped or else they shouldn't use that service.
But expecting someone to do their job regardless of tips is likely part of the employment contract. If you don't agree to that, then you shouldn't work there.
Even for volunteer work there's an expectation you'll do a good job.
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I don’t know much about instacart but if it’s like serving where tipping is how you make money then I totally understand the delivery lady. At one point she says “you paid the app not me” so I’m assuming she gets paid through tipping, how do you just expect someone to complete a job knowing that you won’t get paid? This would not work in literally any other profession where a service is provided.
If you’re going to use a service like instacart there is a social contract that you sign up for. Use the service and tip the person (again I’m assuming from what I gather in the video) who is providing the service. Otherwise get your lazy fucken ass to the store and grab groceries yourself. Better yet, tell the person upfront that you aren’t going to tip them and see how that works out.
The problem here I think is the customer paid for the food, they paid for the delivery service, and now the driver is demanding a TIP in exchange for the goods and services they already paid for.
Even if she's in the right and should be compensated, that's usually spelled out when the order is placed so the customer knows. i'm sure many customers are new to the delivery services or just hurriedly completed the order without paying attention to the tip information. Either way, what the driver did is how NOT to get paid. Had she been more tactful and courteous in explaining how the app works, she might have been tipped an appropriate amount.
I think she's not getting the tips she thinks she deserves, and this large order was one for which she expected would make up for the small ones that paid little to nothing for her. When she saw there was no tip, I believe she became angry and things blew up from there.
It's up to the customer to tip. There is no "social contract" when it comes to people trying to separate you from your money. Our society allows you to keep your moeny in your pocket until you decide to spend it. The driver was over-the-top wrong trying the force the customers to tip. The food was delivery was paid up front. She didn't own the food, so to not complete the delivery was pure theft.
She can argue all day the customer was wrong for not tipping, but that doesn't mean she was any less wrong for keeping the food. Tipping is optional. Delivering the food that the customer alreeady paid for is not.
If you want to talk about contracts, there's a legal one here that i'm sure sides with the customer, not the woman pretending she can make up the rules when someone doesn't tip.
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No one is saying you get to demand a tip “under any circumstances” can you point out anyone who said that? Don’t strawman the argument.
Your thinking is backward. How about instead of criticizing employees who get upset for providing a service and not getting paid maybe you should actually criticize the person who CHOSE to employ a tipped worker and decided to stiff them so they could take advantage of a cheaper option. The fact that it’s a “rule” should not prevent you from understanding that.
So many assumptions.
How about we assume the customer was unaware they were expected to tip? We can also assume the driver was expecting a sizable tip for a sizable order.
We can also assume this is not the first time this driver was disappointed tip-wise and might be taking it out on this one customer because of their higher tip expectation.
I also assume the driver was pissed when she should have been calm while she explained the tip policy of the store and delivery service -- because not everyone knows the ins and outs of tipping in all circumstances.
I assume since she was threatening to keep the food she was not in a diplomatic frame of mind.
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No one is saying you get to demand a tip “under any circumstances” can you point out anyone who said that? Don’t strawman the argument.
Your thinking is backward. How about instead of criticizing employees who get upset for providing a service and not getting paid maybe you should actually criticize the person who CHOSE to employ a tipped worker and decided to stiff them so they could take advantage of a cheaper option. The fact that it’s a “rule” should not prevent you from understanding that.
You said “Tipping is only optional if you got shitty service or if you’re a POS person.” So in other words, tipping is mandatory. Therefore, the person “entitled” to the tip may demand it.
I’m saying there are NO circumstances under which a service provider may demand a tip. Didn’t get a tip? Sorry to hear that. If that’s not an acceptable situation for you, don’t work in service. Can’t get another job, even in today’s red-hot job market? Better find a way to square yourself with the idea that you’re not entitled to tips.
You keep saying “providing a service and not getting paid.” Instacart pays their shoppers, I suspect as independent contractors. If I order through Instacart, there’s no employer/employee relationship established between the shopper and me. They have no claim to my money.
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The problem here I think is the customer paid for the food, they paid for the delivery service, and now the driver is demanding a TIP in exchange for the goods and services they already paid for.
Even if she's in the right and should be compensated, that's usually spelled out when the order is placed so the customer knows. i'm sure many customers are new to the delivery services or just hurriedly completed the order without paying attention to the tip information. Either way, what the driver did is how NOT to get paid. Had she been more tactful and courteous in explaining how the app works, she might have been tipped an appropriate amount.
I think she's not getting the tips she thinks she deserves, and this large order was one for which she expected would make up for the small ones that paid little to nothing for her. When she saw there was no tip, I believe she became angry and things blew up from there.
It's up to the customer to tip. There is no "social contract" when it comes to people trying to separate you from your money. Our society allows you to keep your moeny in your pocket until you decide to spend it. The driver was over-the-top wrong trying the force the customers to tip. The food was delivery was paid up front. She didn't own the food, so to not complete the delivery was pure theft.
She can argue all day the customer was wrong for not tipping, but that doesn't mean she was any less wrong for keeping the food. Tipping is optional. Delivering the food that the customer alreeady paid for is not.
If you want to talk about contracts, there's a legal one here that i'm sure sides with the customer, not the woman pretending she can make up the rules when someone doesn't tip.
I’m not denying that the driver was wrong for what she did. I’ve been stiffed many times by Americans who should know better and I’ve had to let it go because I’m not going to risk my job for one shitty tip. My issue is everyone seems to get upset with and have no problem criticizing the worker who performs their job and doesn’t get paid but no one seems to call out cheap fucks who refuse to tip even though they employ services that traditionally tip. It’s always “oh get another job if you don’t like it”. It’s a really shitty attitude usually perpetrated by people who’ve never worked a real service job.
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I’m not denying that the driver was wrong for what she did. I’ve been stiffed many times by Americans who should know better and I’ve had to let it go because I’m not going to risk my job for one shitty tip. My issue is everyone seems to get upset with and have no problem criticizing the worker who performs their job and doesn’t get paid but no one seems to call out cheap fucks who refuse to tip even though they employ services that traditionally tip. It’s always “oh get another job if you don’t like it”. It’s a really shitty attitude usually perpetrated by people who’ve never worked a real service job.
I worked in a service job, washing dishes in a greasy spoon joint. I thought it would be nice if the servers would share tips with the kitchen staff, but I never thought I was entitled to it. The job sucked, so I went to school and got a better job that sucked less.
You keep talking about “the worker who performs their job and doesn’t get paid…” Instacart pays her, according to what the internet says. If they’re so concerned about tips, they could add a standard gratuity to the price and provide that to the shopper.
Is someone forcing her to work at this job?
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You said “Tipping is only optional if you got shitty service or if you’re a POS person.” So in other words, tipping is mandatory. Therefore, the person “entitled” to the tip may demand it.
I’m saying there are NO circumstances under which a service provider may demand a tip. Didn’t get a tip? Sorry to hear that. If that’s not an acceptable situation for you, don’t work in service. Can’t get another job, even in today’s red-hot job market? Better find a way to square yourself with the idea that you’re not entitled to tips.
You keep saying “providing a service and not getting paid.” Instacart pays their shoppers, I suspect as independent contractors. If I order through Instacart, there’s no employer/employee relationship established between the shopper and me. They have no claim to my money.
I’m talking from a moral standpoint. If you don’t mind being a POS then don’t tip no one can force you too, no one disputes that. But you (not you sodie but the hypothetical one) ARE one and most people who are uncomfortable with that depiction of their moral character like to hide behind the fact that it isn’t “mandatory”. Better yet let them know upfront that you won’t be tipping and see how that works out for you.
Edit: I googled and it seems that instacart pays $15-25 per hour + tip. Maybe this wasn’t the right hill for me to die on :rofl:
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I’m not denying that the driver was wrong for what she did. I’ve been stiffed many times by Americans who should know better and I’ve had to let it go because I’m not going to risk my job for one shitty tip. My issue is everyone seems to get upset with and have no problem criticizing the worker who performs their job and doesn’t get paid but no one seems to call out cheap fucks who refuse to tip even though they employ services that traditionally tip. It’s always “oh get another job if you don’t like it”. It’s a really shitty attitude usually perpetrated by people who’ve never worked a real service job.
Nobody is saying people working for tips should not be paid tips. Even though tipping is out of control in the US (go read older posts), it's still part of the system we have to live with.
It's not about good service versus bad in this specific case. It's about a customer being extorted for tip money. It's bad that the video didn't catch the initial interactions.
Did the food already get unloaded before she realized there was no tip? Did she react angrily rather than explain the situation? Did she then take food that was paid for and load it back into her car (it sure looked like that's what she was doing)?
I don't care how great the service was, you can't hold people's food hostage and demand a tip. So that discussion about good vs poor service really isn't part of this story.
You don't have any evidence the driver performed her job well and that the customers were "cheap fucks."
One side got pissed and pissed off the other side. That's my assumption. If that's true, it throws cold water on the assumption she did a good job which would include explaining the situation without getting pissed.
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Edit: I googled and it seems that instacart pays $15-25 per hour + tip. Maybe this wasn’t the right hill for me to die on :rofl:
That would include car expenses so not as high as it seems.
One of my friends did grocery delivery. He said they get paid well for it, more than Uber eats or Uber rides. That was during COVID so maybe an exceptional time.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=787v2EPt15A
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX_q7HjTFnI
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=787v2EPt15A
Its cause they dont want u to tip cash, which is untraceable by the IRS.
Social credit score coming soon.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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So does this "Federal tip pooling" rule apply to casinos run by "Native(s)" on their land ?