2aHawaii
General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: mrgaf on November 12, 2023, 05:50:20 PM
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This lady has her shit together!
https://youtu.be/_Z_RAbOJcu0
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That was amusing.
It reminds me of us law-abiding peaceful majority gun owners being BLAMED for the crimes of the crazy crackhead illegal gun users.
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Smart lady.
Eloquently put into perpective how the corrupt few drives the agenda.
Exactly what oldfart said.
But will our leaders listen?
They're not courageous enough.
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Smart lady.
Eloquently put into perpective how the corrupt few drives the agenda.
Exactly what oldfart said.
But will our leaders listen?
They're not courageous enough.
Our leaders will never learn because they don’t have the brains, balls or intelligence. ::)
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Bridgett Gabriel sounded like a raving lunatic and the muslim girl came off as a thoughtful young conservative looking for actual solutions.
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Bridgett Gabriel sounded like a raving lunatic and the muslim girl came off as a thoughtful young conservative looking for actual solutions.
Appreciate and respect your thoughts. The Muslim girl did react nicely BUT that is the way they are….nice to your face, friendly and in some cases quite eloquent and passive but turn your back and the knives come out and you’re missing your head! Sorry I have zero use for them, don’t like them and don’t trust them. They started this shit and Israel will finish it. Period. :shaka:
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Appreciate and respect your thoughts. The Muslim girl did react nicely BUT that is the way they are….nice to your face, friendly and in some cases quite eloquent and passive but turn your back and the knives come out and you’re missing your head! Sorry I have zero use for them, don’t like them and don’t trust them. They started this shit and Israel will finish it. Period. :shaka:
I have a different perspective.
The young girl demonstrated exactly what Gabriel was describing. Nice, timid, and idealistic. When the terrorists among you are killing and destroying, the "irrelevant" peaceful majority do what she did -- act quiet, reserved and do nothing to stop the killing and devastation.
I give her props for at least showing up and asking the question, but to paint Gabriel as a raving lunatic when all she's doing is giving historical examples of how being peaceful enables mass murder isn't raving - it's something she is obviously passionate about, not hysterical.
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By her logic you and me and all other Americans are irrelevant for not stopping the for-profit wars in Iraq, Syria, and Ukraine.
What does irrelevant mean anyway? That you can kill somebody or strip them of rights and it’s okay because they belong to a group that you don’t like?
To me it sounds like the military industrial complex using race bait for getting us into more conflicts that stripped us of our wealth and bankrupted the nation
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By her logic you and me and all other Americans are irrelevant for not stopping the for-profit wars in Iraq, Syria, and Ukraine.
What does irrelevant mean anyway? That you can kill somebody or strip them of rights and it’s okay because they belong to a group that you don’t like?
To me it sounds like the military industrial complex using race bait for getting us into more conflicts that stripped us of our wealth and bankrupted the nation
“Belong to a group that you don’t like?” Is that what we are calling radical terrorist who rape dead women and kill children and call for the destruction of an entire race of people?
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“Belong to a group that you don’t like?” Is that what we are calling radical terrorist who rape dead women and kill children and call for the destruction of an entire race of people?
If there were millions of those people running around like Bridgett postulates then commercial airline travel would be impossible.
Assholes exist and we have to be ready to confront them, but there's a whole arms industry that badly needs a new revenue stream now that Ukraine has all but fallen.
(https://sinfest.xyz/btphp/comics/2023-11-14.jpg)
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If there were millions of those people running around like Bridgett postulates then commercial airline travel would be impossible.
Assholes exist and we have to be ready to confront them, but there's a whole arms industry that badly needs a new revenue stream now that Ukraine has all but fallen.
(https://sinfest.xyz/btphp/comics/2023-11-14.jpg)
I think you confused as to what she was actually saying. First of all millions of radical Muslims do exist. Based off polling data (Sam Harris has the sources) show consistently that 15-25% number to be comprised of jihadist, Islamist, and conservative Muslims. These are not just “assholes”. These are people who support monstrosities being committed like the October 7th attack in Israel. Nuance Bro has a video interviewing Palestinians at a rally and you will see Muslims calling for peace yet sompletely support the October 7th attack. Now I don’t believe that the US should get involved with ANY aid financially or physically but radical Muslims are a very real threat.
Second of all the “irrelevant” population she’s referring to are the “peaceful” muslim populations. Those who would sit by and claim to be peaceful and do nothing while radicals use their religion to wreak havoc on innocent people sowing further hatred against Muslims as people. I don’t think she meant that the US needs to spearhead an attack on radical islam.
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I think you confused as to what she was actually saying. First of all millions of radical Muslims do exist. Based off polling data (Sam Harris has the sources) show consistently that 15-25% number to be comprised of jihadist, Islamist, and conservative Muslims. These are not just “assholes”. These are people who support monstrosities being committed like the October 7th attack in Israel. Nuance Bro has a video interviewing Palestinians at a rally and you will see Muslims calling for peace yet sompletely support the October 7th attack. Now I don’t believe that the US should get involved with ANY aid financially or physically but radical Muslims are a very real threat.
Second of all the “irrelevant” population she’s referring to are the “peaceful” muslim populations. Those who would sit by and claim to be peaceful and do nothing while radicals use their religion to wreak havoc on innocent people sowing further hatred against Muslims as people. I don’t think she meant that the US needs to spearhead an attack on radical islam.
Sam Harris is another pro-intervention propagandist with giant holes in his logic that you could fly a cargo plane of refugees through. That 15-25% number is a scare tactic just like how the Left tries to confuse their base by equating law abiding gun owners with mass shooters. I'm all for shutting down the border, banning travel from hostile countries, and sending back the hordes of illegal immigrants who definitely have radical jihadists among their ranks.
On the other hand I'm disgusted by 20 years for nothing in Afghanistan followed by a humiliating tail-between-the-legs retreat leaving billions in weapons behind and now begging the Taliban to come to the negotiation table. The people running the Heritage Foundation bear more than a little responsibility for that.
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By her logic you and me and all other Americans are irrelevant for not stopping the for-profit wars in Iraq, Syria, and Ukraine.
What does irrelevant mean anyway? That you can kill somebody or strip them of rights and it’s okay because they belong to a group that you don’t like?
To me it sounds like the military industrial complex using race bait for getting us into more conflicts that stripped us of our wealth and bankrupted the nation
By your comments, you seem to conflate the US government with the millions of US citizens.
We didn't stop the war in Iraq because -- wait a minute. We DID stop it by pushing Iraqi forces out of Kuwait. If you look at the Iraqi Freedom effort, it was a different animal from Desert Shield and Desert Storm. Note the long break between #41 (First Gulf War) and #43 (Second Gulf War). Clinton was on watch when Bin Laden attacked the Trade Center in 1993. He was also the one who gave the order to stand down not once, but four times, when they had a chance to take Bin Laden out as early as 1998.
We don't go to the polls each time a decision needs to be made. We elect people who are supposed to make the best decisions on our behalf, but that doesn't mean we are in lock-step with the policies and decisions our government makes.
Our is actually something the federal gov't is required to fund. All the social programs, financial assistance, educational control and loans, etc, etc, etc, etc, and on and on are NOT supposed to be functions of government.
I remember a story about a Senator talking with constituents about funding disaster relief for a flooded area of the state. One wealthy citizen told him that's not the function of government. That should be a function of the communities, where churches and other service organizations collect donations and assist the victims. Taking taxes that were collected from everyone and spending it on something that only benefits a small number of victims might seem like charity, but it's not.
When you give your own money to others voluntarily, that's charity.
When you give money involuntarily collected from others (taxes) to someone else, that's called theft.
While the military industrial complex is absolutely gobbling up much of our resources, that's still a justified function of government.
When the gov't takes our taxes and promises to help others, the "bystander syndrome" kicks in. When someone else looks like they are taking care of a problem, others who may be better able to solve the problem decide against trying to assist. e.g. "That guy's giving CPR, so even though I'm a doctor, I assume he knows what he's doing or he wouldn't have stepped in."
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While the military industrial complex is absolutely gobbling up much of our resources, that's still a justified function of government.
Aren't you tired of losing pointless wars yet? There's always going to be an excuse to fly over to the other side of the world and waste a big pile of money throwing kids in the meat grinder but that doesn't mean we have to do it.
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Aren't you tired of losing pointless wars yet? There's always going to be an excuse to fly over to the other side of the world and waste a big pile of money throwing kids in the meat grinder but that doesn't mean we have to do it.
Our military only fights when directed to do so by a civilian chain of command.
We can't protect the country without military might. It's the misapplication of that force that needs to change.
It's not a military problem. It's a people-in-charge problem.
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By your comments, you seem to conflate the US government with the millions of US citizens.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make. Everyone on the planet is guilty-by-association of something. Does that make everyone irrelevant?
Also nobody has defined irrelevant yet. What are the implications for an irrelevant person?
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This is exactly the point I was trying to make. Everyone on the planet is guilty-by-association of something. Does that make everyone irrelevant?
Also nobody has defined irrelevant yet. What are the implications for an irrelevant person?
Everyone on the planet is guilty-by-association of something.
Really? How do you figure.
You can't help where you're born. So, is a 1 year old Palestinian kid guilty of killing Israelis, too? Wondering how this guilt works.
When you use a broad, sweeping generalization, it's almost guaranteed to be false.
"Irrelevant" means exactly what it says: having no bearing on the situation at hand -- unimportant.
Most of the historical examples listed in the video happened to be in countries that oppressed and murdered their people using force to defeat the opposition.
I think the Hebrew slaves in Egypt are the only people I've read of who were freed by divine intervention. Every other nation that's experienced genocide or bondage had to use force, not peaceful protests, to change the power structure and gain their freedom.
There's a reason civil wars are popping up around the world all the time.
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Everyone on the planet is guilty-by-association of something.
You can't help where you're born. So, is a 1 year old Palestinian kid guilty of killing Israelis, too? Wondering how this guilt works.
That's my point exactly. A 1 year old Palestinian kid should not be bombed to bits because a terrorist group claims to have a similar religion. She is still relevant. Her life still matters.
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That's my point exactly. A 1 year old Palestinian kid should not be bombed to bits because a terrorist group claims to have a similar religion. She is still relevant. Her life still matters.
Seems like her life matters more to Israel than Hamas.
#HumanShields
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Seems like her life matters more to Israel than Hamas.
#HumanShields
Not necessarily. How did an invasion force that large get past the sensors? The explanations I’ve heard so far don’t add up.
The world seems to be run by a handful of psychopaths who regard the rest of us as irrelevant
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Not necessarily. How did an invasion force that large get past the sensors? The explanations I’ve heard so far don’t add up.
The world seems to be run by a handful of psychopaths who regard the rest of us as irrelevant
Exactly how large was that "invasion force?"
Give me the actual number, not some "according to what I saw in the videos" count.
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Exactly how large was that "invasion force?"
Give me the actual number, not some "according to what I saw in the videos" count.
According to IDF soldiers the sensors pick up anything bird size or larger. There’s no way a human, much less several hundred heavily armed humans and vehicles should have been able to sneak across undetected.
Israel is run by assholes who are exactly the type that would sacrifice their own people to gain more territory
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It was a blitz assault -- well planned and well executed.
Sounds like a lesson in relying heavily on technology and automated system. If Israel is using cellular technology to network defense and alert systems with soldiers, and the cellular network is disrupted ...
In the early hours of October 7, Hamas militants used bulldozers and bombs
to breach the barriers in about 30 places, many driving through the gaping
holes on motorcycles and in cars. Some sailed over the barrier in paragliders.
The first wave of attackers started with a few simple tactics to defeat the smart
defenses and keep the alarms from sounding and the guns from firing. First,
they fired on the easily identifiable cameras and other sensors and automated
machine guns, disabling them. They blew up the three prominent command and
communications towers built into the wall with explosives launched on small
projectiles or dropped from drones. If any alerts were triggered, they apparently
didn't make it to a major military command center.
Nor, apparently, were local military outposts warned; many soldiers at the outposts
were killed in their beds, presumably oblivious to the attack. Warning calls probably
never reached them or other Israeli outposts and command centers because Hamas
was jamming cellphone communications coming out of the border area. The militants
may well have used commercial handheld jammers, available online for as little as
$800. These devices use a simple technique to disrupt signals: Blasting out electronic
noise on the frequencies used by cellphone carriers. "It's one of the first rules of warfare,"
says Brookings' Nelson. "Take out the enemy's communications."
Once the militants passed through the barriers, there would be little need to worry
about triggering other sensors or automated weapons—all the defenses were aimed
at the Gaza side of the border.
....
It wasn't just Hamas fighters coming unimpeded across the border. A barrage of as
many as 5,000 missiles fired from Gaza came, too, overwhelming Israel's "Iron Dome"
—a missile defense system the country trusted to fend off serious damage from Hamas'
arsenal. Dozens of rockets broke through and struck Israeli cities and villages, killing
at least five people.
....
Hamas used a simple tactic to beat the Iron Dome: it simply overwhelmed the missile
defense system with sheer numbers. Hamas fired between 3,000 and 5,000 rockets
on the day of attack. Israel had only about 1,000 interceptors in the field, and couldn't
reload fast enough to keep up with the barrage. It may seem surprising that Hamas
had far more rockets than Israel had missiles, but rockets are cheap, so the economics
worked in Hamas' favor. "Israel's interceptors cost more than $50,000 apiece," says
the University of Colorado's Boyd. "That's 100 times more than the cost of a Hamas
rocket. It allowed Hamas to overwhelm the system."
The third bulwark to fail during the Hamas attack was Israel's signals surveillance—
that is, the ability to listen in on every phone call made in Gaza, and monitor all forms
of electronic communications. Israel counted on that eavesdropping to provide an early
warning of a potential attack, on the assumption there would be telltale chatter between
militants. Hamas apparently turned that capability against the Israelis by not only relying
strictly on face-to-face communications to plan the attack, but by purposely making
comments in phone calls suggesting little appetite for confrontation.
With its nearby bases overrun by Hamas, its electronic eyes blinded, and its local
communications cut off, the Israeli military offered little by way of counterattack. It
wasn't aware of the invasion for nearly two hours, and six hours passed before an
alert was issued that a major crisis was taking place.
At some point in the early hours of the attack, a single Israeli Merkava tank showed up
to confront a group of Hamas militants. It should have been a lopsided battle; the
Merkava is one of the world's most advanced tanks, bristling with powerful guns,
sophisticated targeting electronics and the latest in defensive armor.
But the militants quickly blew up the tank, enlisting the same trick that Ukrainian
forces have used against Russian tanks: Grenades dropped down from small,
commercially available drones. The second Merkava to take on the attackers
quickly met the same fate. (Within days, the Israelis would take a page from the
Russians' book and tack on improvised slat roofs sitting on poles above the
Merkava's turret, in the hope that grenades would bounce off them.)
Essentially, every component of Israel's celebrated high-tech defense capabilities
failed, amounting to a total system collapse. But more than anything, it is the
hours-long delay in responding that raises questions about the effectiveness of
the country's defenses. It took about eight hours for the first significant Israeli
military forces to arrive and begin to drive the militants back, and as many as
20 hours for the army to confront the last of the attackers.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/israel-s-high-tech-border-failure-could-happen-in-the-u-s-experts-say/ar-AA1jXA4T
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Essentially, every component of Israel's celebrated high-tech defense capabilities
failed, amounting to a total system collapse. But more than anything, it is the
hours-long delay in responding that raises questions about the effectiveness of
the country's defenses. It took about eight hours for the first significant Israeli
military forces to arrive and begin to drive the militants back, and as many as
20 hours for the army to confront the last of the attackers.
Literally every department of IDF, Mossad, and the central government simultaneously failed
yet nobody got fired or resigned in disgrace...
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/a5viI92PAF89q/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952jyfhs87itjwbwuara8o3zaoujy0exsxxeio1aouo&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
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Literally every department of IDF, Mossad, and the central government simultaneously failed
yet nobody got fired or resigned in disgrace...
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/a5viI92PAF89q/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952jyfhs87itjwbwuara8o3zaoujy0exsxxeio1aouo&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
So, you fire the people you need to go after Hamas? Who do you replace them with? People who probably would not have done anything differently, more than likely.
The military in most countries isn't the same as a corporation where you can just fire the top supervisors and figure out where to go after that.
Usually there's an investigation, a board of inquiry, and if required a court martial. That takes time, and it's not going to happen while they are busy waging war on the atackers. Besides, the damage has already been done. Dropping the hammer on the people in command immediately following the failure would do nothing to fix the problems in the systems. It can wait until all the facts are investigated.
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So, you fire the people you need to go after Hamas? Who do you replace them with? People who probably would not have done anything differently, more than likely.
The military in most countries isn't the same as a corporation where you can just fire the top supervisors and figure out where to go after that.
Usually there's an investigation, a board of inquiry, and if required a court martial. That takes time, and it's not going to happen while they are busy waging war on the atackers. Besides, the damage has already been done. Dropping the hammer on the people in command immediately following the failure would do nothing to fix the problems in the systems. It can wait until all the facts are investigated.
Sounds like a real clown show. We should not send them a dime until they get their situation sorted.
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Sounds like a real clown show. We should not send them a dime until they get their situation sorted.
Welcome to the military! When you invest that much time and resources into personnel for training and hands-on experience, it's difficult to find replacements at the top echelons. Most of the US top slots are mostly political appointments, anyway, but the wartime commanders are normally seasoned warfighters.
Take a look at the combatant commander system we use. Each major command is responsible for training the troops and providing equipment. When the fighting starts, a theater of operations is designated, and a theater commander is appointed. Each component commander (AF, Navy, Army, Marines, Coast Guard) provides resources and personnel to the theater commander. Completely different structure than for peacetime.
Just an example of how you don't want to play mix and match just because the other side had a successful assault. This might be the event that shows them all the holes in the systems they all thought were adequate protection from terrorists.
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RIP USD
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/8Y1LWpbCqu-Wvy04MXNX7RjZ77SgWJTQYAuU_RBL3S8/rs:fit:860:0:0/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pLnBp/bmltZy5jb20vb3Jp/Z2luYWxzLzJlLzYw/L2RhLzJlNjBkYWVm/NjkyMWNhNTgzZmNk/MTI1ODcxMTEyYWIw/LmdpZg.gif)