2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: ren on December 18, 2023, 07:47:19 PM
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Flat or curved triggers. Poll options reflect all genders. Do you shoot better with which?
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i own no triggers...
Flat or curved triggers. Poll options reflect all genders. Do you shoot better with which?
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Mines curves to the left
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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I was going to joke about curved triggers and straight women, but I better not say anything.
Shutting my mouth now.
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binary triggers are illegal so only non-binary are allowed.
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This is something that I never tested out. I do like the feel of a flat trigger (dry fire). Like on the newer P320's or P365's. But testing which is better with live fire side by side is unknown to me. IMO, I feel the 320/365 curved triggers are much more curved than your Glock, HK, etc...Even the other SIG P models seem much more curved.
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I don't discriminate. As long as the trigger can get the job done, i'm open to flat, curved, smooth, ridged, skeletonized, etc.
But, the reset distance is a deal breaker. Who wants a long reset?
(https://i.imgur.com/dOtFExX.jpg)
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I am sure there is probably some scientific answer to this question, about how pressure is felt against a curve vs a flat surface but I think there are many other things that would matter a whole lot more in terms of quality shooting.
I always thought they look cool and wanted one but can't recall ever actually shooting one.
If history tells us anything I think it would be that curved is better, seems like flat triggers are a pretty recent fad. Just have to find a Japanese firearm maker and see if they are flat or curved because they take things to absolute perfection
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I am sure there is probably some scientific answer to this question, about how pressure is felt against a curve vs a flat surface but I think there are many other things that would matter a whole lot more in terms of quality shooting.
I always thought they look cool and wanted one but can't recall ever actually shooting one.
If history tells us anything I think it would be that curved is better, seems like flat triggers are a pretty recent fad. Just have to find a Japanese firearm maker and see if they are flat or curved because they take things to absolute perfection
yeah, the Japanese firearms market is yuge...
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yeah, the Japanese firearms market is yuge...
I thought the Japanese were known for some very high end firearms? Maybe I am mistaken.
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yeah, the Japanese firearms market is yuge...
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:rofl:
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I am sure there is probably some scientific answer to this question, about how pressure is felt against a curve vs a flat surface but I think there are many other things that would matter a whole lot more in terms of quality shooting.
I always thought they look cool and wanted one but can't recall ever actually shooting one.
If history tells us anything I think it would be that curved is better, seems like flat triggers are a pretty recent fad. Just have to find a Japanese firearm maker and see if they are flat or curved because they take things to absolute perfection
Science cannot explain everything like this because there are variable that are unique that would affect "on paper" results.
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Both. . . preference depending in area and purpose. Curves in the right areas, and flat in others. . . ;D 8)
Seriously, I have both. Preferences depend on gun type. Pistol, AR, bolt action, etc.
Pistol - I mostly have flat. Trying different ones at the moment, but I currently like the ones with a lip at the end of the trigger (for various reasons).
AR - I mostly have flat Geissle, but have curved OEM/milspec and Geissele. I haven't done shot timer tests, but I don't think I would get a measureable difference between the two.
Bolt action - I have all TT pro-curve. Mostly because what was in stock when I got my first and stuck with it. Have seen lots of various preferences. For now, I like how the pro-curve has the finger placement on a consistent level. I'll have to tune my newer TT triggers closer for more consistency. Noticeable on paper? Different guns, different loads, to can't say, but overall consistency can't hurt. I've also seen many who prefer flat triggers incorporate index points on their triggers. Though I wonder how many consistently can set/feel, say in a PRS type match where time is ticking, vice a more calm/steady shooting pace.
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gud enuff...
Both. . . preference depending in area and purpose. Curves in the right areas, and flat in others. . . ;D 8)
Seriously, I have both. Preferences depend on gun type. Pistol, AR, bolt action, etc.
Pistol - I mostly have flat. Trying different ones at the moment, but I currently like the ones with a lip at the end of the trigger (for various reasons).
AR - I mostly have flat Geissle, but have curved OEM/milspec and Geissele. I haven't done shot timer tests, but I don't think I would get a measureable difference between the two.
Bolt action - I have all TT pro-curve. Mostly because what was in stock when I got my first and stuck with it. Have seen lots of various preferences. For now, I like how the pro-curve has the finger placement on a consistent level. I'll have to tune my newer TT triggers closer for more consistency. Noticeable on paper? Different guns, different loads, to can't say, but overall consistency can't hurt. I've also seen many who prefer flat triggers incorporate index points on their triggers. Though I wonder how many consistently can set/feel, say in a PRS type match where time is ticking, vice a more calm/steady shooting pace.
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gud enuff brah...
FIFY
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bruh...
FIFY
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Science cannot explain everything like this because there are variable that are unique that would affect "on paper" results.
It's 100% subjective, a personal preference. But Mr Objective hasn't deemed it so -- therefore he needs to discuss the "science."
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bruh...
lul.
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It's 100% subjective, a personal preference. But Mr Objective hasn't deemed it so -- therefore he needs to discuss the "science."
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some folks just get triggered
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Another sort of related, I like the bladed triggers for an extra layer of safety. The guns that I would like that have a flat factory trigger, don't come bladed. Like P320 or P365. But the curve on the SIG's look a lot more than other brands compared to my S&W Shield or VP9, of which, both are bladed.
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consensus
lul.
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I prefer a flat trigger. feels like I can get better leverage with it, slightly
for women, I take what I can get :-*
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It's 100% subjective, a personal preference. But Mr Objective hasn't deemed it so -- therefore he needs to discuss the "science."
So you are certain that if 100 shooters were provided with identical firearms and shoot with flat triggers and then with curved triggers ((or vice versa) that the results would be equal?
I like science. If you have a problem with me looking at interesting questions through a scientific lens then you can suck it, at a vacuum pressure of your preference.
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So you are certain that if 100 shooters were provided with identical firearms and shoot with flat triggers and then with curved triggers ((or vice versa) that the results would be equal?
I like science. If you have a problem with me looking at interesting questions through a scientific lens then you can suck it, at a vacuum pressure of your preference.
Are you saying such a study exists?
How can you argue about scientific results that haven't been reported .. or collected?
It's pure speculation to say people who prefer one trigger might shoot better with a different one. If they shoot better, then most likely their preference would change, so 99% of the time, personal preference and performance will align.
i stand by my statement -- a DIRECT statement -- that it's subjective personal preference.
What makes one person shoot better with one trigger than with another, but the next person has the opposite results? I'll go out on a limb and say there are many reasons -- familiarity (used to one more than the other), length of the fingers, distance between finger joints, ergonomics of the trigger design is better for one person more so than the next, etc, etc.
Put a person in a manual transmission car, and they probably do better with an automatic. But, given time behind the wheel, they might be able to drive a stick better than they can an automatic while racing or driving a semi or bus.
There's no science involved, just common sense.
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"Trust the science!!!" 8) [sarcasm\] mostly inspired from Mr. Tourettes. . .
Rather, I say/think trust but verify. Do many experiments for myself and regularly revisit. For firearms, there's a bit aspect of personal preference. However, there are basic mechanical differences to consider. Like trigger mechanism. Someone noted leverage above, which would (or could) matter more on triggers where there is a pivot point and how the sear is engaged/released. A flat trigger for 1911 would be different than say an AR trigger operation.
Overall, I think one can't eliminate the human factor in trigger manipulation, no matter how you grip the firearm. Thinking back to the thumb in/out thread. There are a number of videos on that, including one that used to frequent this board to now many precision rifle shooters. One who advocates finger flat from second knuckle. I've tried that, but my hand and grip combinations don't allow that. Even with different grip panels on my bolt action rifles, I "fall short" :( :-X I could try different chassis/stocks, but not at this time. While I think personal preference definitely plays a huge factor, the shooter is often the worst "enemy". . .
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Are you saying such a study exists?
How can you argue about scientific results that haven't been reported .. or collected?
It's pure speculation to say people who prefer one trigger might shoot better with a different one. If they shoot better, then most likely their preference would change, so 99% of the time, personal preference and performance will align.
i stand by my statement -- a DIRECT statement -- that it's subjective personal preference.
What makes one person shoot better with one trigger than with another, but the next person has the opposite results? I'll go out on a limb and say there are many reasons -- familiarity (used to one more than the other), length of the fingers, distance between finger joints, ergonomics of the trigger design is better for one person more so than the next, etc, etc.
Put a person in a manual transmission car, and they probably do better with an automatic. But, given time behind the wheel, they might be able to drive a stick better than they can an automatic while racing or driving a semi or bus.
There's no science involved, just common sense.
Not saying such a study exists. I was saying that you could use scientific principles to design a study which would answer the question of whether there was a superior trigger. Maybe the results would show one superior, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they would show one superior but only in certain situations or groups. To be clear I am talking about on average, obviously not everyone is going to fall cleanly into one or the other.
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Rather, I say/think trust but verify. Do many experiments for myself and regularly revisit. For firearms, there's a bit aspect of personal preference. However, there are basic mechanical differences to consider. Like trigger mechanism. Someone noted leverage above, which would (or could) matter more on triggers where there is a pivot point and how the sear is engaged/released. A flat trigger for 1911 would be different than say an AR trigger operation.
That is the type of thing I was getting at. The differences are small, if any, I would suspect, but possible.
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Not saying such a study exists. I was saying that you could use scientific principles to design a study which would answer the question of whether there was a superior trigger. Maybe the results would show one superior, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they would show one superior but only in certain situations or groups. To be clear I am talking about on average, obviously not everyone is going to fall cleanly into one or the other.
So, it's all a theory you imagined -- nothing that is based on reality.
Gotcha.
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archimedes is rolling in his grave right now
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(https://i.postimg.cc/43zxZWD9/think.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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archimedes is rolling in his grave right now
They had no triggers in ~210 BC.
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So, it's all a theory you imagined -- nothing that is based on reality.
Gotcha.
I never gave any theories.
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#objective
Not saying such a study exists. I was saying that you could use scientific principles to design a study which would answer the question of whether there was a superior trigger. Maybe the results would show one superior, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they would show one superior but only in certain situations or groups. To be clear I am talking about on average, obviously not everyone is going to fall cleanly into one or the other.
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some people try so hard to sound academic but fall flat on their face....
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some people try so hard to sound academic but fall flat on their face....
Not trying to sound academic. Just pointing out science could be used to try to answer the question.
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you can measure lock time, weight on 1st and 2nd stage on a trigger. How does one measure "feel"?
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you can measure lock time, weight on 1st and 2nd stage on a trigger. How does one measure "feel"?
#objective
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you can measure lock time, weight on 1st and 2nd stage on a trigger. How does one measure "feel"?
I think the word feel would be too subjective to be a good way to measure.
I think groupings under timed shooting would be a better thing to measure.
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I think the word feel would be too subjective to be a good way to measure.
I think groupings under timed shooting would be a better thing to measure.
#subjective
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#subjective
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
In science, one must seek to eliminate, mitigate or isolate variables. Adding a timed element to a test only introduces more complexity to it, meaning you can't know if the test ONLY measured the trigger, or the individual's various results influenced by the introduction of a time factor.
The only way to be truly scientific is to eliminate the human factor -- i.e. use a mechanical device to pull the trigger. If the results are the same for both triggers, then it brings me back to what I said all along: the results are 100% subjective. That subjectivity lies in the abilities, skills, experience, and consistency of the shooter.
You'd be testing the shooter, not the trigger.
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In science, one must seek to eliminate, mitigate or isolate variables. Adding a timed element to a test only introduces more complexity to it, meaning you can't know if the test ONLY measured the trigger, or the individual's various results influenced by the introduction of a time factor.
The only way to be truly scientific is to eliminate the human factor -- i.e. use a mechanical device to pull the trigger. If the results are the same for both triggers, then it brings me back to what I said all along: the results are 100% subjective. That subjectivity lies in the abilities, skills, experience, and consistency of the shooter.
You'd be testing the shooter, not the trigger.
You would be testing how shooter's performances vary when using flat or curved triggers. I didn't say you had to use a timed event, that was just an example. You could test it timed, standing, bench rest, all sorts of different ways as long as you kept the variables the same between the groups shooting flat and the groups shooting curved triggers. By comparing differences in scores across the two groups with all other variables being the same you would be able to see what, if any advantage there was to a particular trigger. That would not be testing the shooter, that would be testing the trigger.
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You would be testing how shooter's performances vary when using flat or curved triggers. I didn't say you had to use a timed event, that was just an example. You could test it timed, standing, bench rest, all sorts of different ways as long as you kept the variables the same between the groups shooting flat and the groups shooting curved triggers. By comparing differences in scores across the two groups with all other variables being the same you would be able to see what, if any advantage there was to a particular trigger. That would not be testing the shooter, that would be testing the trigger.
let us know about your results :thumbsup: