2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: H Golf Sport on December 29, 2023, 03:16:49 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-fQYTGAtpk&t=332s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-fQYTGAtpk&t=332s)
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Highlights:
From 14 to 40 days to get permit. Apparently for Mental Health background check.
Permit to aquire 6 approved instructors.
Liscence to Carry 46 approved instructors.
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Current CCW instructors credentials are still valid, they just have to teach/add the mental health stuff. This is against what the law says, but guess HPD is giving them a pass on this one.
HPD is approving instructors for the handgun safety class before the chiefs rules have been finalized. Again, HPD giving a pass on this one and not complying with the rules.
Logan confirmed due to a court order, they cannot enforce some of the senstiive places law. See Wolfford post in the legal section.
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Did he say multiple firearms per carry license @11:17?
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Did he say multiple firearms per carry license @11:17?
Yes, the PC is a clusterfuck. I mean, the enitre process is as well.
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Thats great to hear. So process for applying for approval was in place, they just didnt approve anyone until the last minute. Glad to see most of the speculation was unfounded and the sky isnt actually falling. Good job Hpd and Chief Logan.
Personally I think the most of 1230 is still unconstitutional and I hope it will get changed.
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focus
the process was not in place
the approvals went out yesterday, the applications were available the day before
they did not even know that they were required to hold meeting until hifico told them a few weeks ago
hifico also had to explain to them what was in the bill a week or so ago, and that's when they came up with the new applications and procedures
the ccw process that was approved is not in order either, they just auto approved everyone, they did not make them reapply
Thats great to hear. So process for applying for approval was in place, they just didnt approve anyone until the last minute. Glad to see most of the speculation was unfounded and the sky isnt actually falling. Good job Hpd and Chief Logan.
Personally I think the most of 1230 is still unconstitutional and I hope it will get changed.
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https://www.kitv.com/news/local/hpd-shoots-back-against-accusations-of-heel-dragging-for-gun-permits/article_dda3e87c-a6b4-11ee-aea2-3ffa9784930b.html
HPD shoots back against accusations of heel-dragging for gun permits
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Heel draggers would be a complement
These guys are the slowest moving MF'ers I've seen in my life
If they moved any slower, they'd be going backwards
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Was watching the news this morning and heard that one will have to go to a certified instructor to get a permit to acquire for both and gun and long gun and the waiting period is now 40 days… the old lady was yakking her head off and I’m too old to listen to both so not to sure I heard correctly…… ???
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no worries crime rate is down...
https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/string-of-smash-n-grab-crimes-has-oahu-restaurants-on-high-alert/article_c4023aee-a6ba-11ee-99b3-eff9fb929f75.html
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This is from Civil Beat, May 2022:
HPD also provided Honolulu City Council data late last month showing a more than
42% increase in crimes involving guns, knives or other weapons compared to last year.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/05/crime-on-oahu-is-bouncing-back-to-pre-pandemic-levels/
So, crime -- violent crime -- was up in 2022 more than 42% over 2021.
People went out and bought guns in large numbers; tasers, stun guns, and batons are now legal to carry; concealed carry finally became legal here; and the crime rate is now down?
This, while the HI police departments still struggles with staffing shortages.
Sounds like the media needs to take a closer look at the reason crime stats dropped after the Bruen decision. i don't think we can credit law enforcement, the legislature, the mayor or the governor.
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I watched the whole thing and the crap detector started beeping after the first minute. :rofl: :rofl:
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/12/31/woman-charged-with-murder-after-allegedly-trying-hit-police-officer-with-car/
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After listening to Logan studdering and mumbling about how the latest new laws can be found on their website, the question is…. Where is it?. January 1st and it’s the same old information on their website. Idiots.
Happy New Year
🐷🙊
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After listening to Logan studdering and mumbling about how the latest new laws can be found on their website, the question is…. Where is it?. January 1st and it’s the same old information on their website. Idiots.
Happy New Year
🐷🙊
Logan is a f..cking idiot…. He has more excuses than the mafia’s Teflon Don….nothing sticks…..always someone else’s fault…
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so the wait period went from 14 days to 40 days? WTF! and I'm sure they'll count that as business days, i.e. 2 months before you can pick up your PTA.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/12/30/honolulu-police-chief-clears-up-confusion-new-guns-law-are-set-go-into-effect/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/12/30/honolulu-police-chief-clears-up-confusion-new-guns-law-are-set-go-into-effect/)
"The police chief said the application process to acquire a gun is being extended from 14 to 40 days.
Applicants will now need to undergo a mental health evaluation."
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Logan is a f..cking idiot…. He has more excuses than the mafia’s Teflon Don….nothing sticks…..always someone else’s fault…
Az why you can be sure da Mayor, Police Comission and most all of the politicians love him.
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with the new mental health requirement, would a Dr.'s clearance note satisfy this requirement? or has to go through the new BS?
bc kaiser policy is for doctors to not answer any firearms letters. the letter from hpd goes straight to the general mail room and they send back a copy of any psychologist notes if you ever had a visit with one then its up to hpd to red flag you or not. kaiser would have to change their policy to comply with hpd's new policy, other wise its the same as before as far as kaiser is concerned
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with the new mental health requirement, would a Dr.'s clearance note satisfy this requirement? or has to go through the new BS?
bc kaiser policy is for doctors to not answer any firearms letters. the letter from hpd goes straight to the general mail room and they send back a copy of any psychologist notes if you ever had a visit with one then its up to hpd to red flag you or not. kaiser would have to change their policy to comply with hpd's new policy, other wise its the same as before as far as kaiser is concerned
1 part is you have to list all your primary doctors, not just your current one. IDK how Kaiser will treat this.
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1 part is you have to list all your primary doctors, not just your current one. IDK how Kaiser will treat this.
as if your colonoscopy doctor, or dentist will be able to provide relevant insight. Doctors will tend to choose the path that provides the least liability.
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as if your colonoscopy doctor, or dentist will be able to provide relevant insight. Doctors will tend to choose the path that provides the least liability.
so they can disqualify you on any disability...got a cavity? DQd! Why? because it shows you cant take care of yourself
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dentists are not real doctors...
so they can disqualify you on any disability...got a cavity? DQd! Why? because it shows you cant take care of yourself
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Glad I don’t have any guns or ammo.
:D
This is ludacris.
40 day waiting and psych evaluation (including expense) to get a permit for a Right. Interesting.
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This is Hawaii. Land of Aloha.
And Bullsh*t.
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with the new mental health requirement, would a Dr.'s clearance note satisfy this requirement? or has to go through the new BS?
bc kaiser policy is for doctors to not answer any firearms letters. the letter from hpd goes straight to the general mail room and they send back a copy of any psychologist notes if you ever had a visit with one then its up to hpd to red flag you or not. kaiser would have to change their policy to comply with hpd's new policy, other wise its the same as before as far as kaiser is concerned
That's why Kaiser throws it back to HPD and vice versa.
Liability.
But a colonoscopy or podiatrist doctor should be able to give HPD an accurate assessment as to your mental capacity to responsibly and safely own a firearm. :crazy: :crazy:
Just another fine day in the banana republik of hawaii. A paradise run by retards.
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dentists are not real doctors...
Still gets no discount ! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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My wife was told even though she gets her new firearms safety course done she cannot pick her permit up till 1/22/24 because the chief has to sign some legal document.
Dr Jones
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My wife was told even though she gets her new firearms safety course done she cannot pick her permit up till 1/22/24 because the chief has to sign some legal document.
Dr Jones
Chiefs rules document maybe?
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Not sure, I was wondering if anyone else had been told this.
Dr Jones
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That's why Kaiser throws it back to HPD and vice versa.
Liability.
But a colonoscopy or podiatrist doctor should be able to give HPD an accurate assessment as to your mental capacity to responsibly and safely own a firearm. :crazy: :crazy:
Just another fine day in the banana republik of hawaii. A paradise run by retards.
"Just another fine day in the banana republik of hawaii. A paradise run by retards."
With all due respect to the elected ones, They put in some effort to get elected.
The real retards are the one that vote for them.
:wacko:
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https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/01/10/proposed-new-rules-gun-permits-draws-passionate-testimony-both-sides-issue/
But others in attendance voiced their support for HPD and even called for stricter regulations, including a woman whose daughter was a victim of gun violence.
“My daughter was found shot in the back of the head, wrapped in a blanket and left in her tub,” said Ilima Decosta. “There’s no consequence for the man that owned the firearm because he found a way to weasel out of it. I would like to make sure that we have a proper background check.”
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her story changes every time...
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/01/10/proposed-new-rules-gun-permits-draws-passionate-testimony-both-sides-issue/
But others in attendance voiced their support for HPD and even called for stricter regulations, including a woman whose daughter was a victim of gun violence.
“My daughter was found shot in the back of the head, wrapped in a blanket and left in her tub,” said Ilima Decosta. “There’s no consequence for the man that owned the firearm because he found a way to weasel out of it. I would like to make sure that we have a proper background check.”
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“My daughter was found shot in the back of the head, wrapped in a blanket and left in her tub,” said Ilima Decosta. “There’s no consequence for the man that owned the firearm because he found a way to weasel out of it. I would like to make sure that we have a proper background check.”[/i]
She said it was a suicide, but she keeps bringing that other stuff up as if it was a murder from her husband/ex-husband(?). I looked up the information and found an obituary, but no other information leading me to believe it was a suicide. I feel sorry for her to lose a daughter to suicide and can't blame her for doing what she's doing. She thinks it's a murder to cope with it, guess it's easier to believe that than a suicide. She wears the Moms Demand Action shirt but I don't see her interacting closely with the other members. She might be too much for them to handle.
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1 part is you have to list all your primary doctors, not just your current one. IDK how Kaiser will treat this.
Do they no longer allow someone to say that they don't have a doctor?
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Glad I don’t have any guns or ammo.
:D
This is ludacris.
40 day waiting and psych evaluation (including expense) to get a permit for a Right. Interesting.
And who is going to litigate it if the decision is challenged? HPD will likely default to the doctor's note but then who would you sue and that if two doctors give conflicting reports?
Would seem the cost should be covered by the government if they were going to require the evaluation.
I think the whole requiring of a psych evaluation is one of the biggest issues in terms of constitutional rights. Is there any other right the government can require such things before you are allowed to practice it?
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Do they no longer allow someone to say that they don't have a doctor?
Correct. You must list a prior doctor.
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Correct. You must list a prior doctor.
What happens when your pediatrician is deceased?
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What happens when your pediatrician is deceased?
Complicated question.
If the doctor was part of a medical practice with partners, his records (and the patients) may be assigned to another doctor. Any records would be available for the background check.
Even if he was the sole proprietor, patient records could still exist.
The question really becomes, did your doctor even keep records on your treatment in the first place (some mental health practitioners don't keep written records), and what does the law in your state require for record retention after the practice closes?
If your pediatrician was part of an HMO, the records will exist in the HMO's patient files. There may also be copies of records provided to the insurance provider you used.
The fun part is how long it might take for HPD to request your documents and how long the provider has to produce them.
Obtaining Medical Records from Closed Practices
https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/2021-02/Patient-access-obtaining-medical-records-from-closed-practices.pdf
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The fun part is how long it might take for HPD to request your documents and how long the provider has to produce them.
1 reason why they changed it from 20 days to 40 days. The amount of lawsuits tehy would get due to denying people after 20 days would be a factor.
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Correct. You must list a prior doctor.
Can I list my DDS ? :wacko:
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#notarealdoctor
Can I list my DDS ? :wacko:
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Can I list my DDS ? :wacko:
Only SFDDS counts
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don't ask, don't tell...
Only SFDDS counts
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don't ask, don't tell...
whoa Green Beret dentist?
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whoa Green Beret dentist?
You don' tknow the story?
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don't ask, don't tell...
we don't care that you are LGBTQ+(no firearms)
:rofl:
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It is like they are just asking for more 2nd amendment related lawsuits....
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It is like they are just asking for more 2nd amendment related lawsuits....
They are running out the clock. If the USA signs on to the World Health Organization pandemic treaty in May then our legal system is moot. Tedros can claim gun violence is a health crisis and ban everything. HPD will be like “Gosh, looks like we have to comply” just like they did a couple years ago arresting people for sitting on the beach, eating out/traveling unvaxxed and not wearing face masks. Welcome to the post constitutional era.
https://rumble.com/v45p4hq-dr-meryl-nass-who.html
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They are running out the clock. If the USA signs on to the World Health Organization pandemic treaty in May then our legal system is moot. Tedros can claim gun violence is a health crisis and ban everything. HPD will be like “Gosh, looks like we have to comply” just like they did a couple years ago arresting people for sitting on the beach, eating out/traveling unvaxxed and not wearing face masks. Welcome to the post constitutional era.
https://rumble.com/v45p4hq-dr-meryl-nass-who.html
I don't buy that one. No way some pandemic treaty is going to supersede the bill of rights.
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I don't buy that one. No way some pandemic treaty is going to supersede the bill of rights.
New York isn’t waiting. Under rule 2.13 they just legalized concentration camps.
The courts aren’t going to save us.
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New York isn’t waiting. Under rule 2.13 they just legalized concentration camps.
The courts aren’t going to save us.
If this is the one you are referring to it looks like it was already ruled unenforceable.
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/judge-declares-new-york-s-covid-19-3096722/#:~:text=Rule%202.13%20states%20in%20pertinent%20part%3A%20%E2%80%9Cwhenever%20appropriate,the%20State%20Commissioner%20of%20Health%20shall%20determine%20appropriate.%E2%80%9D
Is the UN going to land forces in the USA and enforce WHO regulations here?
Not sure what that has to do with guns. Forced quarantine laws already exists here in Hawaii though, well before covid.
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I don't buy that one. No way some pandemic treaty is going to supersede the bill of rights.
U make like they need a treaty to violate the bill of rights.
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U make like they need a treaty to violate the bill of rights.
If he's still struggling with due process, natural rights existing without being declared by the government is more advanced concept than he's ready for.
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If this is the one you are referring to it looks like it was already ruled unenforceable.
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/judge-declares-new-york-s-covid-19-3096722/#:~:text=Rule%202.13%20states%20in%20pertinent%20part%3A%20%E2%80%9Cwhenever%20appropriate,the%20State%20Commissioner%20of%20Health%20shall%20determine%20appropriate.%E2%80%9D
Is the UN going to land forces in the USA and enforce WHO regulations here?
Not sure what that has to do with guns. Forced quarantine laws already exists here in Hawaii though, well before covid.
Your article is old. It must have taken a lot of effort to sift through all the recent news stories in order to find it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/court-ruling-allows-state-to-seize-citizens-for-indefinite-quarantine-and-isolation/ar-AA1kKwTV
Who needs UN troops when we have HPD showing their eagerness to put us in our place. This anti 2a/pro-lockdown campaign is like a job interview for them. Globalist loyalty testing.
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#objective
If he's still struggling with due process, natural rights existing without being declared by the government is more advanced concept than he's ready for.
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If he's still struggling with due process, natural rights existing without being declared by the government is more advanced concept than he's ready for.
No, you are still struggling with due process. ;)
I highly doubt you are consistent with your application of natural rights concepts.
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Your article is old. It must have taken a lot of effort to sift through all the recent news stories in order to find it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/court-ruling-allows-state-to-seize-citizens-for-indefinite-quarantine-and-isolation/ar-AA1kKwTV
Who needs UN troops when we have HPD showing their eagerness to put us in our place. This anti 2a/pro-lockdown campaign is like a job interview for them. Globalist loyalty testing.
Ah, well thank you for the update on that story. It will be interesting to see how it ultimately gets decided.
You were talking about the WHO coming in and enforcing some WHO rule but then you switched to talking about American law so you are changing the issue to one that doesn't address the challenge I posed to your conspiracy theory.
Why even bring up quarantine law, do you think the government should have no legal powers to forcibly quarantine individuals regardless of the severity of a communicable disease they possess?
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U make like they need a treaty to violate the bill of rights.
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Thats not what I said, I said no way WHO policy is going to supersede the bill of rights. What court is going to come in and force the USA to obey some international mandate?
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swooosh
Ah, well thank you for the update on that story. It will be interesting to see how it ultimately gets decided.
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swooosh
Not swoosh. According to the article "the case is set to be appealed to the New York Court of Appeals" meaning it hasn't been ultimately decided yet.
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No, you are still struggling with due process. ;)
I highly doubt you are consistent with your application of natural rights concepts.
You can doubt all you want -- highly or otherwise.
You're still wrong.
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yes swoosh
you missed his sarcasm...
Not swoosh. According to the article "the case is set to be appealed to the New York Court of Appeals" meaning it hasn't been ultimately decided yet.
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yes swoosh
you missed his sarcasm...
Need to use the [nuance] tags next time.
:geekdanc:
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maybe he was reading it objectively?
or subjectively...
Need to use the [nuance] tags next time.
:geekdanc:
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You were talking about the WHO coming in and enforcing some WHO rule but then you switched to talking about American law so you are changing the issue to one that doesn't address the challenge I posed to your conspiracy theory.
You sound confused
Why even bring up quarantine law, do you think the government should have no legal powers to forcibly quarantine individuals regardless of the severity of a communicable disease they possess?
(https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc0b081ae-d7f6-440b-9c35-30d673485aed_966x852.png)
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You can doubt all you want -- highly or otherwise.
You're still wrong.
Answer this
So all humans have natural rights, even aliens to this country and illegal aliens to this country? You can say yes but then you will have to deal with countless examples where non-citizens do not have full natural rights as citizens and how we deal with enemy combatants OR you say no and admit it isn't as natural and unalienable as you claim.
Feel free to take your time to think this one over before answering.
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You sound confused
How come you can't answer the question? It isn't a gotcha question, if you feel the government should have no power to detain someone with a deadly contagious disease then just say so. I would just ask how you propose to deal with such a person who doesn't comply with medical advice to isolate and instead goes to public areas where they may spread the disease?
As for the WHO, I am not confused. I said I don't believe WHO policy would trump constitutional law and then you change topics to American law about medical quarantine.
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yes swoosh
you missed his sarcasm...
He said my article was old and he presented a more recent one. That was not sarcastic, that was informative and I thanked him for it.
Swoosh you missed my sincerity.
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ummm
"It must have taken a lot of effort to sift through all the recent news stories in order to find it."
#providingnuance
He said my article was old and he presented a more recent one. That was not sarcastic, that was informative and I thanked him for it.
Swoosh you missed my sincerity.
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please show me where i said you weren't sincere...
He said my article was old and he presented a more recent one. That was not sarcastic, that was informative and I thanked him for it.
Swoosh you missed my sincerity.
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How come you can't answer the question? It isn't a gotcha question, if you feel the government should have no power to detain someone with a deadly contagious disease then just say so. I would just ask how you propose to deal with such a person who doesn't comply with medical advice to isolate and instead goes to public areas where they may spread the disease?
As for the WHO, I am not confused. I said I don't believe WHO policy would trump constitutional law and then you change topics to American law about medical quarantine.
1. There’s already medical quarantine laws in place. The NY version is a step way over the line with no definitions and therefore no restrictions on state authority and therefore completely unconstitutional. Your comparison assumes the only two choices are anarchy and tyranny. So let me ask you the kind of question that you just asked me…do you hate freedom? Because you seem awfully defensive of tyrannical policies.
2. If we sign onto an international treaty that subverts our own constitution then who’s going to stand up against it? Certainly not politicians or cops who clearly see the constitution as an impediment to their own power.
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1. There’s already medical quarantine laws in place. The NY version is a step way over the line with no definitions and therefore no restrictions on state authority and therefore completely unconstitutional. Your comparison assumes the only two choices are anarchy and tyranny. So let me ask you the kind of question that you just asked me…do you hate freedom? Because you seem awfully defensive of tyrannical policies.
2. If we sign onto an international treaty that subverts our own constitution then who’s going to stand up against it? Certainly not politicians or cops who clearly see the constitution as an impediment to their own power.
Note that I was not defending this new NY law, I only expanded on the issue of quarantine law since you brought it up. I would have to look at the difference between the old NY quarantine law and the new one to offer opinion. My question to you was to see where you stood on the question of forced quarantine in general, not NY's specific one. Personally I would be very hesitant to give the government quarantine powers. Limited powers to be used in the most extreme of circumstances.
Why would the USA ever sign a treaty that subverts its own power? Thats where it doesn't make sense. The richest, most power nation on earth, with the best protections for its citizens is just going to hand that away. You have a very pessimistic outlook, no offense.
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Note that I was not defending this new NY law, I only expanded on the issue of quarantine law since you brought it up. I would have to look at the difference between the old NY quarantine law and the new one to offer opinion. My question to you was to see where you stood on the question of forced quarantine in general, not NY's specific one. Personally I would be very hesitant to give the government quarantine powers. Limited powers to be used in the most extreme of circumstances.
Why would the USA ever sign a treaty that subverts its own power? Thats where it doesn't make sense. The richest, most power nation on earth, with the best protections for its citizens is just going to hand that away. You have a very pessimistic outlook, no offense.
Glad we are in agreement on your first point.
My response to the second point is that it's complicated matrix of problems but basically comes down to resource depletion and delusional corrupt elites and their mostly useless managerial class wanting to stay in power and maintain their extravagant lifestyles at the expense of everyone else. They are aware that industrial output will continue to decline given the planet's resource constraints, and have decided to terrorize their populations into compliance and give global communism a try. It's a terrible plan that will inevitably fail and has already resulted in lots of unnecessary chaos and death, but things are just getting started and in the meantime it's a good idea to continue resisting wherever possible. We're going to need those firearms when our state starts missing payroll and cops walk off the job.
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Thats not what I said, I said no way WHO policy is going to supersede the bill of rights. What court is going to come in and force the USA to obey some international mandate?
[/quote
SWOOOSSHHHHH
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Glad we are in agreement on your first point.
My response to the second point is that it's complicated matrix of problems but basically comes down to resource depletion and delusional corrupt elites and their mostly useless managerial class wanting to stay in power and maintain their extravagant lifestyles at the expense of everyone else. They are aware that industrial output will continue to decline given the planet's resource constraints, and have decided to terrorize their populations into compliance and give global communism a try. It's a terrible plan that will inevitably fail and has already resulted in lots of unnecessary chaos and death, but things are just getting started and in the meantime it's a good idea to continue resisting wherever possible. We're going to need those firearms when our state starts missing payroll and cops walk off the job.
:thumbsup:
Ok. My comment was meant to be taken in the present state of things meaning I cannot see, in the near future, the USA surrendering its power to another country/authority. 100 years down the line could America degrade so greatly that constitutional rights are meaningless? Sure, then I would concede your scenario is possible.
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:thumbsup:
Ok. My comment was meant to be taken in the present state of things meaning I cannot see, in the near future, the USA surrendering its power to another country/authority. 100 years down the line could America degrade so greatly that constitutional rights are meaningless? Sure, then I would concede your scenario is possible.
I apologize for losing patience with you in the past. It seemed to me that it would be impossible for someone to ignore the ongoing degradation of western civilization, but it’s not an easy thing to accept and completely understandable that some would prefer to keep hoping that this will all blow over soon and we can return to Progress
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I apologize for losing patience with you in the past. It seemed to me that it would be impossible for someone to ignore the ongoing degradation of western civilization, but it’s not an easy thing to accept and completely understandable that some would prefer to keep hoping that this will all blow over soon and we can return to Progress
No worries. Rest assured, I have my prepper supplies and fears of the decline of this country too. :thumbsup: