Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 04, 2024, 10:24:57 PM
Thanks in advance.
Post by: jd0210 on March 04, 2024, 10:36:29 PM
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 04, 2024, 11:45:24 PM
:geekdanc:
https://youtu.be/9rGpykAX1fo
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 05, 2024, 12:01:00 AM
What handguard are u running? I do have a Lunar Concepts Hot pocket. But my rifle does not have a front sight post.
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This one. It is a two piece that allows you to retain the front sight post but get rail out past the front sight post. Overall pretty happy with it but the flange is a little exposed
https://www.opticsplanet.com/troy-delta-rail-carbine-m-lok.html
That hot pocket thing might work, have to figure out how it attaches with sight post.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 05, 2024, 12:20:38 AM
The barrel, flange, whatever is still going to get just as hot, but if you put a cloth type material on it, your barrel will retain that heat and could become even hotter if you continue shooting without giving it a chance to cool off.
Quote
Hot barrels have a number of evil side effects. First, they distort your sight picture.
If there are enough heat waves rising you won’t be able to get a sight picture at all,
and if you can they’ll cause an optical illusion, showing the target to be higher than
it actually is.
Sustained shooting with a hot barrel also affects barrel life. An example is the 6.5/284,
a cartridge that holds a relatively modest powder charge, and is beloved of High Power
match competitors who shoot three 20-round strings for record. This will heat up a barrel,
and under these conditions, where you would normally expect 2,000 to 2,500 rounds
with no loss of accuracy, you’ll probably get only 1,500.
Post by: Q on March 05, 2024, 02:28:07 AM
Post by: drck1000 on March 05, 2024, 08:46:23 AM
The rail you posted seems very similar to DD FSP handguard. (https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/m4a1-fsp-5.56x45mm-stripped-upper-receiver/)
Assume your hand is touching the back of the FSP. If so, you could try a handstop, but positioned backwards from typically used.
I've used heat shields on my AK, where the rail is very close to the gas block and gets very hot. I've tried carbon fiber and G10 scales.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 09:21:31 AM
Post by: macsak on March 05, 2024, 12:19:02 PM
If you end up deciding to buy a new handguard, make sure you do it before 7/8; just in case the current version of SB3196 passes as importing or buying any handguard to replace what you have will be illegal.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 05, 2024, 01:53:08 PM
Hope EEF's wife never touches the rifle or a rifle in a rifle case/bag or take anyone out shooting as that would be illegal for anyone other than himself to posses the rifle or any magazine. There's no exemptions for LE family members or household members.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 05, 2024, 03:00:23 PM
then he gonna have to arrest himself...
Isn't law enforcement an exception in HI gun laws?
Post by: macsak on March 05, 2024, 03:24:54 PM
no focus...
Isn't law enforcement an exception in HI gun laws?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 05, 2024, 10:32:40 PM
You going to wrap the barrel? Or the handguard?
The rail you posted seems very similar to DD FSP handguard. (https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-receivers-parts/m4a1-fsp-5.56x45mm-stripped-upper-receiver/)
Assume your hand is touching the back of the FSP. If so, you could try a handstop, but positioned backwards from typically used.
I've used heat shields on my AK, where the rail is very close to the gas block and gets very hot. I've tried carbon fiber and G10 scales.
I really only need to cover up the exposed area which is the FSP itself and the flange right a small section of the flange behind it. The FSP gets hot but my hand does not touch it as easy as it does that round flange that the original handguard clips into. Just a couple tabs of tape would work.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 05, 2024, 10:33:46 PM
Isn't law enforcement an exception in HI gun laws?
A lot of them but not all.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 06, 2024, 12:24:46 AM
A lot of them but not all.
Can you list the laws that LE is not given an exception under?
I'm talking only about what firearms and accessories LE can own: > 10 rd mags for pistols, sound suppressors, the new assault weapons ban bill, etc.
Post by: aletheuo137 on March 06, 2024, 08:27:39 AM
then he gonna have to arrest himself...
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Post by: randay on March 06, 2024, 08:49:02 AM
your leather purse. or just a strip or leather. :shaka:
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 06, 2024, 09:45:20 AM
Can you list the laws that LE is not given an exception under?
I'm talking only about what firearms and accessories LE can own: > 10 rd mags for pistols, sound suppressors, the new assault weapons ban bill, etc.
Seen pics of SSD with SBR's when they were at the Kahala Hotel a few years ago.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 06, 2024, 10:13:09 AM
Seen pics of SSD with SBR's when they were at the Kahala Hotel a few years ago.
If they can slide on all NFA items (all banned in HI), that's a good number of guns and accessories prohibited for the general public but allowed for LE.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 06, 2024, 10:23:51 AM
If they can slide on all NFA items (all banned in HI), that's a good number of guns and accessories prohibited for the general public but allowed for LE.
HPD also owns at least 1 Barret 50 cal as well.
Post by: aaronc5362 on March 07, 2024, 07:26:45 PM
What flange are you speaking of? I'm thinking circular handguard cap? If it is just use sheet metal shears and cut it off or a dremel and trim it/ shave it down.
Or the proper way and remove handguard, muzzle device and gas block and get it off.
Or you can post a pic of it? I saw the link. But unsure of what flange. Isnthe flange connected to the handguard?
If you wanna do a cloth type. Buy those kurtz supressor wraps. Some use bungee cord and you can slip the fsp inbetween the bungees. Iirc theres another silicone type I think the company started with the letter "M" and you could possibly cut a hole so the fsp can protrude up and out. I forget how mucj these costs tho. But you can Google pics of it. They allow you to use your bare hand to some degree instead of using gloves
3rd option. Use gloves. 😬
Edit: I'm pretty sure your talking bout the handguard cap after re-reading your original post.
If you have a standard a2 FSP it should be taper pinned in and the cap is unnecessary.
Anywho. Exhaust wraps come in a variety of materials. Titanium and kevlar seems to be the best from what I remember. It didnt flake like fiberglass woven material after years of use. Although, I don't recommend wrapping your barrel . doubt harmonics would be affected at all but who knows.
Plus you want the barrel exposed to air to cool down faster. Right? Lol.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 07, 2024, 10:55:42 PM
OP
What flange are you speaking of? I'm thinking circular handguard cap? If it is just use sheet metal shears and cut it off or a dremel and trim it/ shave it down.
Or the proper way and remove handguard, muzzle device and gas block and get it off.
Or you can post a pic of it? I saw the link. But unsure of what flange. Isnthe flange connected to the handguard?
If you wanna do a cloth type. Buy those kurtz supressor wraps. Some use bungee cord and you can slip the fsp inbetween the bungees. Iirc theres another silicone type I think the company started with the letter "M" and you could possibly cut a hole so the fsp can protrude up and out. I forget how mucj these costs tho. But you can Google pics of it. They allow you to use your bare hand to some degree instead of using gloves
3rd option. Use gloves. 😬
Edit: I'm pretty sure your talking bout the handguard cap after re-reading your original post.
If you have a standard a2 FSP it should be taper pinned in and the cap is unnecessary.
Anywho. Exhaust wraps come in a variety of materials. Titanium and kevlar seems to be the best from what I remember. It didnt flake like fiberglass woven material after years of use. Although, I don't recommend wrapping your barrel . doubt harmonics would be affected at all but who knows.
Plus you want the barrel exposed to air to cool down faster. Right? Lol.
Yes, the handguard cap!
It is basically the 3 o clock and 9 o clock portion that is exposed. Hot enough to be very uncomfortable but I didn't burn myself.
Gloves are a good idea but I was hoping for some sort of fabric. I know there are heat proof (resistant) fabrics but have to find an adhesive that can withstand the heat to attach the fabric. Maybe one of those exhaust epoxies could do it but kind of messy.
THanks for giving me the part name, I will do more searching and see if there are any products mentioned for it.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 07, 2024, 11:11:23 PM
Can you list the laws that LE is not given an exception under?
I'm talking only about what firearms and accessories LE can own: > 10 rd mags for pistols, sound suppressors, the new assault weapons ban bill, etc.
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0011.htm
Explosives, but you said gun so guess that doesn't count.
Having a firearm while being served a TRO/protective order
They aren't exempt from a permit to acquire or mandatory registration.
Ghost guns
Removing a serial number.
Most of the fun accessories LEOs are given an exemption
Post by: aaronc5362 on March 08, 2024, 12:38:59 AM
Yes, the handguard cap!
It is basically the 3 o clock and 9 o clock portion that is exposed. Hot enough to be very uncomfortable but I didn't burn myself.
Gloves are a good idea but I was hoping for some sort of fabric. I know there are heat proof (resistant) fabrics but have to find an adhesive that can withstand the heat to attach the fabric. Maybe one of those exhaust epoxies could do it but kind of messy.
THanks for giving me the part name, I will do more searching and see if there are any products mentioned for it.
No problem.
Wanna just remove it? Cheapest option. Justbneed some time and elbow grease. Remove handguard and fsb taper pins. Then simply cut it off without removing muzzle device. That would be the cleanest way.
If ya wanna epoxy you'll prob have to sand the cap down to expose the bare metal. Pretty sure they are anodized so it wont adhere as good. Mgm makes a tape. But I think its omly good to 300 degrees. Heatwise. Its the glue they use for adhesives that'll give you problems as heat will soften the glue on tape style products. Which will make it come loose
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 10, 2024, 10:27:49 PM
No problem.
Wanna just remove it? Cheapest option. Justbneed some time and elbow grease. Remove handguard and fsb taper pins. Then simply cut it off without removing muzzle device. That would be the cleanest way.
If ya wanna epoxy you'll prob have to sand the cap down to expose the bare metal. Pretty sure they are anodized so it wont adhere as good. Mgm makes a tape. But I think its omly good to 300 degrees. Heatwise. Its the glue they use for adhesives that'll give you problems as heat will soften the glue on tape style products. Which will make it come loose
IIRC some of the better ones are up to 400 degrees. Guess a trip to the hardware store is in order. I don't know how hot a barrel on a semi auto gets though
I did think about cutting it off but if I ever decide to switch guards then I might need it to attach another guard.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 11, 2024, 04:06:25 AM
If it's because you have a pinned & welded muzzle device, that's not very complicated to remove with the right tools without damaging anything.
My first "build" was a stripped lower and complete upper from PSA. I went that route mainly because i wasn't sure what i really wanted in my 2nd AR after the Colt LE6940.
What i decided was I wanted a free floated barrel similar to my Colt. The most direct solution was to replace the handguard and gas block/A2 sight post. Since the barrel was 16" without the flash hider, I had no problem removing it. i had already purchased a replacement for it anyway -- something more effective at hiding the flash than the birdcage design.
With a little research, i knew what diameter gas block I needed, what tools I had to buy, and what handguard i thought looked promising. I also purchased a front sight to attach to the rail. The number of parts was minimal, and the handguard was the only big ticket item -- I think i spent less for my Troy handguard than the one you have now.
I did all the work myself, and even chose the same configuration for my next build -- which was actually for my daughter. She liked the look and feel of my handguard, so that's what we chose.
Anyway, unless you have a need for the A2 sight post, i'd say ditch it. Colt offered free floated barrels with A2 posts, but i'm not sure i've ever seen any other company offer them. if a barrel is free floated, the handguard is usually over the gas block, and the front sight is on top of the handguard.
One of the benefits of a flip-up front sight, besides the obvious, is the longer sight radius. The more distance between the BUIS, the better your sight picture.
Of course, the A2 can hinder the use of many optics as well. Another reason to consider ditching it. Flip-up sights are only visible when they are needed and out of the picture when they aren't. Even if the sights are 1/3rd co-witnessed, I found having the front sight anywhere in the viewing area of my optic a distraction at the very least.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 11, 2024, 10:24:03 PM
Is there are reason you're not willing to remove the A2 front sight and replace it with a low profile gas block?
If it's because you have a pinned & welded muzzle device, that's not very complicated to remove with the right tools without damaging anything.
My first "build" was a stripped lower and complete upper from PSA. I went that route mainly because i wasn't sure what i really wanted in my 2nd AR after the Colt LE6940.
What i decided was I wanted a free floated barrel similar to my Colt. The most direct solution was to replace the handguard and gas block/A2 sight post. Since the barrel was 16" without the flash hider, I had no problem removing it. i had already purchased a replacement for it anyway -- something more effective at hiding the flash than the birdcage design.
With a little research, i knew what diameter gas block I needed, what tools I had to buy, and what handguard i thought looked promising. I also purchased a front sight to attach to the rail. The number of parts was minimal, and the handguard was the only big ticket item -- I think i spent less for my Troy handguard than the one you have now.
I did all the work myself, and even chose the same configuration for my next build -- which was actually for my daughter. She liked the look and feel of my handguard, so that's what we chose.
Anyway, unless you have a need for the A2 sight post, i'd say ditch it. Colt offered free floated barrels with A2 posts, but i'm not sure i've ever seen any other company offer them. if a barrel is free floated, the handguard is usually over the gas block, and the front sight is on top of the handguard.
One of the benefits of a flip-up front sight, besides the obvious, is the longer sight radius. The more distance between the BUIS, the better your sight picture.
Of course, the A2 can hinder the use of many optics as well. Another reason to consider ditching it. Flip-up sights are only visible when they are needed and out of the picture when they aren't. Even if the sights are 1/3rd co-witnessed, I found having the front sight anywhere in the viewing area of my optic a distraction at the very least.
I like having the front sight post as a backup, I have an MRO with a 1/3 cowitness mount. I could spend more, take it off and replace it with a flip up, remove and reinstall the Warcomp, but at this point it just doesn't seem worth that effort. If I were to start from scratch I would have ordered a different set up but not really interesting in getting a whole new upper just to solve this small problem.
If I ever decide to do a pin and weld on a 14.5" then maybe I would get a low profile gas block. That shortening of the barrel and removing the FSP might lighten the gun up a little too but then I would lose a small amount of velocity. But then maybe just buy a socom barrel. Bummer thing was I waited over a year to get this handguard and not sure if it serves much purpose on a gun with no FSP and its not the cheapest or the lightest.
Post by: drck1000 on March 11, 2024, 10:50:08 PM
https://youtu.be/qkEK5_Nr8Kc?si=_IJWvKA1r5hRniuo
I found this video on the rail and during the video, it shows the cap. If your gun is setup like the one in this video, how are you burning your hand in the cap? Or is the rail in contact with the cap or the rail itself getting hot?
I just don’t see how your hand is touching the cap. At least in this video it seems inset, or not protruding. Even then, where would you put the fabric? On the rail? If on the rail, I still think you’re better off with a hand stop or G10 or other scale on the top pic section. If you’re going to put the fabric on the cap, won’t it contact the rail? Thus lose the benefit of free float.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 12, 2024, 09:20:12 AM
I like having the front sight post as a backup, I have an MRO with a 1/3 cowitness mount. I could spend more, take it off and replace it with a flip up, remove and reinstall the Warcomp, but at this point it just doesn't seem worth that effort. If I were to start from scratch I would have ordered a different set up but not really interesting in getting a whole new upper just to solve this small problem.
If I ever decide to do a pin and weld on a 14.5" then maybe I would get a low profile gas block. That shortening of the barrel and removing the FSP might lighten the gun up a little too but then I would lose a small amount of velocity. But then maybe just buy a socom barrel. Bummer thing was I waited over a year to get this handguard and not sure if it serves much purpose on a gun with no FSP and its not the cheapest or the lightest.
You can remove the A2 FSP by cutting it off. Then you can install a lo-pro gas block without removing the flash hider.
I asked if there is some reason you are not willing to remove the A2 FSP. You said "I like having it as a backup." A flip up sight provides a backup, too. I don't see your reasoning at all.
https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-gas-system-parts/ar-15-2-pc-detent-adjustable-low-profile-gas-block/
There's also the cheaper method. You can remove just the sight post by cutting below it and leave the gas block portion attached to the barrel. There's more than one way to float a barrel.
Post by: drck1000 on March 12, 2024, 10:14:50 AM
You can remove the A2 FSP by cutting it off. Then you can install a lo-pro gas block without removing the flash hider.That's my preference. I have two guns that I did this (one by me, one by "a pro friend"). I also have a Colt OEM2 upper, which is essentially the same.
I asked if there is some reason you are not willing to remove the A2 FSP. You said "I like having it as a backup." A flip up sight provides a backup, too. I don't see your reasoning at all.
https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rifle-parts/rifle-gas-system-parts/ar-15-2-pc-detent-adjustable-low-profile-gas-block/
There's also the cheaper method. You can remove just the sight post by cutting below it and leave the gas block portion attached to the barrel. There's more than one way to float a barrel.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 12, 2024, 11:56:58 AM
That's my preference. I have two guns that I did this (one by me, one by "a pro friend"). I also have a Colt OEM2 upper, which is essentially the same.
:thumbsup:
I considered that, but I wanted to experiment with an adjustable gas block.
The tight wads among us (and i believe EEF qualifies) would rather do nothing than alter the A2 FSP/gas block in case he ever has a need for it again. Or he can sell it intact one day -- which likely never comes because he never removed it.
Can't pay the price for a new gas block and front flip-up sight, and can't bring themselves to cut the A2 they already paid for.
Sometimes you just gotta say, :wtf:
-- Joel
Post by: drck1000 on March 12, 2024, 12:04:53 PM
:thumbsup:I have both. At one point in my AR "progression" I was in the A vs B mode, and had to try both. FSP and and flip up. Normal weight barrel and light weight. And so on. Eventually narrowed down to what fit my needs and frankly preference. Everyone has their preference. Personally, I've seen so many guns have problems with misaligned or other issues with gas blocks. Even this past weekend where a shooter probably shot over 100 rounds tuning his adjustable gas block. Nothing wrong with that, just something I'd rather not deal with.
I considered that, but I wanted to experiment with an adjustable gas block.
The tight wads among us (and i believe EEF qualifies) would rather do nothing than alter the A2 FSP/gas block in case he ever has a need for it again. Or he can sell it intact one day -- which likely never comes because he never removed it.
Can't pay the price for a new gas block and front flip-up sight, and can't bring themselves to cut the A2 they already paid for.
Sometimes you just gotta say, :wtf:
-- Joel
:wtf: I say that all the time. . . :rofl:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 12, 2024, 12:36:33 PM
I have both. At one point in my AR "progression" I was in the A vs B mode, and had to try both. FSP and and flip up. Normal weight barrel and light weight. And so on. Eventually narrowed down to what fit my needs and frankly preference. Everyone has their preference. Personally, I've seen so many guns have problems with misaligned or other issues with gas blocks. Even this past weekend where a shooter probably shot over 100 rounds tuning his adjustable gas block. Nothing wrong with that, just something I'd rather not deal with.
:wtf: I say that all the time. . . :rofl:
If he needed 100 rds to tune his gas block, there's something wrong somewhere.
I used the toothpick method to align the gas port in the barrel with the port in the block. You can use a piece of spaghetti, plastic ... anything you can break in half easily once it's in position. Just make the alignment tool -- basically a tiny "stick" -- long enough to go from the bottom of the gas block port so it reaches into the barrel port. Attack the gas block, then turn the barrel over so the stick slides into both port holes. You can tell when they are aligned, because you can no longer rotate the gas block due to the stick being in both ports. Tighten down the block, and use a cleaning rod down the barrel to break the stick in half. The stick pieces should fall out easily. Some places actually sell these plastic sticks:
https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-tools/rifle-tools/ar-15-gas-block-aligner/
I like this better than the other methods I tried. This is much more accurate than blowing air through the port and gauging the sound or resistance.
If that guy's gas port wasn't aligned, then the range of adjustment was limited -- maybe to the point where it would never be in the right setting.
Adjusting mine was easy. I opened it all the way up, then gradually closed it between shots. it took maybe 8-10 shots until the rifle stopped cycling. I opened it back up a bit, and that gave me the least amount of gas pressure to make the bolt cycle. Depending on the ammo you normally use, you might want to open it just a bit more so lower pressure ammo can still cycle without having to make more adjustments.
Having said that, it's possible the other dude was using more than one batch of ammo, and the variation in pressure or the weight of the bullet had him chasing too many variables at once?
Post by: drck1000 on March 12, 2024, 01:14:26 PM
If he needed 100 rds to tune his gas block, there's something wrong somewhere.I was exaggerating. Maybe 20 ish. . .
SNIP
Having said that, it's possible the other dude was using more than one batch of ammo, and the variation in pressure or the weight of the bullet had him chasing too many variables at once?
Personally, I've seen similar when folks shoot cheap (under powered) ammo in mid-length guns where they "tuned" the action via buffers, springs, etc for 193, 855, etc 5.56 ammo. Not really sure what he was doing. Just noticed him having some issues and noted that he had an adjustable gas block.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 12, 2024, 05:39:18 PM
I was exaggerating. Maybe 20 ish. . .
Personally, I've seen similar when folks shoot cheap (under powered) ammo in mid-length guns where they "tuned" the action via buffers, springs, etc for 193, 855, etc 5.56 ammo. Not really sure what he was doing. Just noticed him having some issues and noted that he had an adjustable gas block.
Gunsmithing isn't like most hobbies. If you aren't careful and don't have someone with experience helping, you can cause some real damage/injuries.
That's why I started out slowly, only tackling the sections of the AR I felt comfortable with. eventually, I graduated to gas blocks and tubes, barrel installations and similar. I'd get the right tools, read and watch the right tutorials, and then research any questions i had.
When it came time to build my daughter's AR, I had all the tools and parts gathered for her. Pretty much plug n play. The hard part was specing out everything so I was sure it was all compatible and would just work.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 13, 2024, 09:57:11 AM
Gunsmithing isn't like most hobbies. If you aren't careful and don't have someone with experience helping, you can cause some real damage/injuries.
That's why I started out slowly, only tackling the sections of the AR I felt comfortable with. eventually, I graduated to gas blocks and tubes, barrel installations and similar. I'd get the right tools, read and watch the right tutorials, and then research any questions i had.
When it came time to build my daughter's AR, I had all the tools and parts gathered for her. Pretty much plug n play. The hard part was specing out everything so I was sure it was all compatible and would just work.
That's why I know my paygrade and have someone else install things.
Post by: drck1000 on March 13, 2024, 10:23:57 AM
That's why I know my paygrade and have someone else install things.You should give it a try. . . another thing you can be expert at. . . 8)
or more to argue with folks online with O0
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 13, 2024, 11:10:28 AM
You should give it a try. . . another thing you can be expert at. . . 8)
or more to argue with folks online with O0
If you don't try, you'll never know ...
I figure if others can do something, I can too with enough learning and effort. Might take me longer than a professional, but I usually get there.
Post by: aaronc5362 on March 13, 2024, 03:16:39 PM
Headspacing and torquing of the barrel nut is probably the most crucial part of building ar15s and as always buy quality/ known parts.
Hehe. But back to topic for OP.
I too have both an upper with a fsb and another upper with full length qual rail and LP gas block. Essentially its a bcm upper with the qrf rail. Its all preference. I do like quad rails over mlok. Ive put together 9 or so uppers and only kept my quad rail uppers. Its my preference. I like the old school look. Well not as old as plastic m4 handguards. 😂
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 13, 2024, 03:44:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSizVpfqFtw
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 17, 2024, 12:11:10 AM
To clarify, you’re concerned about the cap that’s behind the FSP?
https://youtu.be/qkEK5_Nr8Kc?si=_IJWvKA1r5hRniuo
I found this video on the rail and during the video, it shows the cap. If your gun is setup like the one in this video, how are you burning your hand in the cap? Or is the rail in contact with the cap or the rail itself getting hot?
I just don’t see how your hand is touching the cap. At least in this video it seems inset, or not protruding. Even then, where would you put the fabric? On the rail? If on the rail, I still think you’re better off with a hand stop or G10 or other scale on the top pic section. If you’re going to put the fabric on the cap, won’t it contact the rail? Thus lose the benefit of free float.
The rail is not getting hot, just the FSP and the exposed portion of the handguard cap, on the top half of the cutout of the guard. I would apply a fabric just to this small portion that is exposed as that is the only portion that I really felt hot. Was hoping a small piece of fabric would solve the problem easy and cheaply. I would be worried that a handguard mounted flip up would not be as accurate as a fixed FSP attached to the barrel. Maybe too miniscule to matter though?
Maybe I will cut it off, its pretty cheap and can put it back on if I ever need to, just have to take off warcomp.
I have thought about cutting off the FSP to make it low profile as well but then I spent extra money on this guard for nothing, could have gotten a more affordable one.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 17, 2024, 08:10:29 AM
The rail is not getting hot, just the FSP and the exposed portion of the handguard cap, on the top half of the cutout of the guard. I would apply a fabric just to this small portion that is exposed as that is the only portion that I really felt hot. Was hoping a small piece of fabric would solve the problem easy and cheaply. I would be worried that a handguard mounted flip up would not be as accurate as a fixed FSP attached to the barrel. Maybe too miniscule to matter though?
Maybe I will cut it off, its pretty cheap and can put it back on if I ever need to, just have to take off warcomp.
I have thought about cutting off the FSP to make it low profile as well but then I spent extra money on this guard for nothing, could have gotten a more affordable one.
Buy once, cry once.
Quite often the cheap comes out expensive.
I'm sure there's another
Post by: drck1000 on March 18, 2024, 08:27:37 AM
The rail is not getting hot, just the FSP and the exposed portion of the handguard cap, on the top half of the cutout of the guard. I would apply a fabric just to this small portion that is exposed as that is the only portion that I really felt hot. Was hoping a small piece of fabric would solve the problem easy and cheaply. I would be worried that a handguard mounted flip up would not be as accurate as a fixed FSP attached to the barrel. Maybe too miniscule to matter though?Do you have a RDS as primary on this rifle? If so, I wouldn't fret it. . .
Maybe I will cut it off, its pretty cheap and can put it back on if I ever need to, just have to take off warcomp.
I have thought about cutting off the FSP to make it low profile as well but then I spent extra money on this guard for nothing, could have gotten a more affordable one.
I have a few ARs free float handguards/rails with low-profile gas blocks. I haven't noticed any huge difference with the BUIS. With quality handguards/rails, the lockup should be solid. Or at least "solid enough". I don't intend on shooting any rifle matches or anything, but once zero'ed, I haven't noticed anything. Back when KHSC had steel all over the hillside, it was easy to get consistent hits with irons on those steel in the 200-280ish range.
Overall, might as well do things right. Yeah, sucks that you may be out on some $$$ by changing configurations. You could try a different configuration for a while, but that's even more $$$. That's what I did, and ended up spending more $$$, but was able to iron out what worked for me.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 18, 2024, 12:10:47 PM
...
I would be worried that a handguard mounted flip up would not be as accurate as a fixed FSP attached to the barrel. Maybe too miniscule to matter though?
...
Do you have a RDS as primary on this rifle? If so, I wouldn't fret it. . .
I don't see the reason to worry. is your rear "iron" sight attached to the rail above the upper receiver? What's holding it in place? My guess it's the same type of screw mechanism that probably holds the front sight in place, too. if you're worried about one, you should be worried about both.
Maybe you should do a little research, and contact all the AR makers in the country. Ask them how many of the ARs they sell with free-floated barrels and front sights attached to the handguard rail have ever been reported to be 'less accurate" than a comparable AR with an A2 FSP.
In my opinion, i'd trust a free-floated handguard-mounted front sight just as much as a barrel-mounted A2 FSP. If you're bumping your barrel into things hard enough to damage or misalign the flip-up front sight, chances are the barrel is taking the brunt of the force -- as the barrel protrudes beyond the end of the a handguard. The A2 post isn't damage-proof.
From another viewpoint, as DRCK mentioned, if you have a red dot optic installed, then the BUIS are exactly that -- backup sights. Your primary will always be the optic. IMO, it's a good idea to use 1/3 co-witness elevation on the optic so you can visually check the iron sights' zero periodically. All sights are subject to moving if they are shot regularly. The vibration alone -- outside of any bumping or dropping -- is sometimes enough to loosen screws/mounts. You also have to consider the possibility of accidentally moving the sights' adjustment when handling the weapon.
So, if properly co-witnessed, a quick look to see if the iron sights and red dot are aligned just prior to using them can be all that's needed to know both are good. it can also alert you to a misaligned optic that might have been bumped, had mounting screws loosen, and so on.
If you're treating this as a competition rifle and need a 100% accurate zero every single shot, then i'd be more concerned with the heat you're complaining about. A hot barrel can definitley affect the accuracy of the gun even if your POA is identical from shot to shot.
Post by: changemyoil66 on March 18, 2024, 12:49:40 PM
Post by: drck1000 on March 18, 2024, 01:59:07 PM
I don't see the reason to worry. is your rear "iron" sight attached to the rail above the upper receiver? What's holding it in place? My guess it's the same type of screw mechanism that probably holds the front sight in place, too. if you're worried about one, you should be worried about both.I am a$$uming he is fretting about the rail moving relative to the receiver.
SNIP
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 18, 2024, 03:20:55 PM
I am a$$uming he is fretting about the rail moving relative to the receiver.
When i take the handguard off, I reinstall it by first getting the connection hardware & handguard loosely in place. Then I put an optic mount directly over the seam between the upper rail and the handguard rail. Tightening that mount down to both rails makes them flush and perfectly parallel. Then I tighten the handguard hardware.
So, disassembly/reassembly shouldn't be a concern if done right.
Unless there's a handguard i don't know about, the only way the handguard's rail can move is if the entire handguard moves. If you're using Lock-tite and proper torque, it'll take some force to cause that thing to move.
I admit the monolithic rail was one of the selling features that sold me on the Colt LE6940. As my first AR, I didn't have any experience to know any different. Then i figured out you'd have to be really abusing your rifle to need a single rail along the top. Over time, I also became less than a fan of the quad rail design.
There's always a compromise.
If you want a solid steel rifle barrel and FSP, then you probably aren't planning to use it for competition. You're looking at actual tactical/combat use. At that point, the original AR carbine handguard with no rail is a good option. isn't that handguard mostly plastic and a foil type heat shield?
But, if you want a free-floated barrel for better accuracy and a place to mount accessories, you're more likely looking at it for home defense and/or competition. That's when a free-floated barrel and light weight aluminum handguard that's longer than carbine length -- giving a longer sight radius -- would allow for better feel, control and accuracy.
I'm not saying a free-floating handguard can't move, but there are things that can be done to prevent it.
If you want your A2 sight, you can keep your A2 sight. Just don't expect it to offer the same benefits as a "normal" free-floated AR with a handguard-mounted front sight.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 18, 2024, 03:23:14 PM
Besides my back up sights, I also know other parts of the gun that I can use for short distances and still get on paper as a mcGuyver style of sight. This includes my pistols. The theory is if you RDS and back ups break.
Hence the need for 30rd mags!
:geekdanc: :rofl:
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 18, 2024, 11:06:04 PM
Do you have a RDS as primary on this rifle? If so, I wouldn't fret it. . .
I have a few ARs free float handguards/rails with low-profile gas blocks. I haven't noticed any huge difference with the BUIS. With quality handguards/rails, the lockup should be solid. Or at least "solid enough". I don't intend on shooting any rifle matches or anything, but once zero'ed, I haven't noticed anything. Back when KHSC had steel all over the hillside, it was easy to get consistent hits with irons on those steel in the 200-280ish range.
Overall, might as well do things right. Yeah, sucks that you may be out on some $$$ by changing configurations. You could try a different configuration for a while, but that's even more $$$. That's what I did, and ended up spending more $$$, but was able to iron out what worked for me.
I have a Trijicon MRO.
I am probably overthinking it.
Post by: macsak on March 18, 2024, 11:16:34 PM
I have a Trijicon MRO.
I am probably overthinking it.
Post by: drck1000 on March 19, 2024, 07:47:52 AM
SNIPI was guessing that OP was concerned about the end of the rail/handguard flexing relative to the barrel. I've seen some cheapo models (UTG and the like) where the lockup isn't tight and there's noticeable movement of the end of the rail. All of my ARs are solid (BCM, Geissele, and DD). However, the rail on my friend's AR9 (believe Midwest Industries) does move no matter how much you torque down the "clamp" at the receiver end of the rail.
So, disassembly/reassembly shouldn't be a concern if done right.
Unless there's a handguard i don't know about, the only way the handguard's rail can move is if the entire handguard moves. If you're using Lock-tite and proper torque, it'll take some force to cause that thing to move.
I used to have an LMT that had a monolithic rail. While that sucker was bombproof, but ended up selling it.
Post by: drck1000 on March 19, 2024, 07:51:41 AM
I have a Trijicon MRO.Yup. . .
I am probably overthinking it.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 19, 2024, 10:13:19 AM
I was guessing that OP was concerned about the end of the rail/handguard flexing relative to the barrel. I've seen some cheapo models (UTG and the like) where the lockup isn't tight and there's noticeable movement of the end of the rail. All of my ARs are solid (BCM, Geissele, and DD). However, the rail on my friend's AR9 (believe Midwest Industries) does move no matter how much you torque down the "clamp" at the receiver end of the rail.
I used to have an LMT that had a monolithic rail. While that sucker was bombproof, but ended up selling it.
The main issue with the Colt I had with the monolithic rail, besides weight and the quad-rail handguard, is you needed a special, proprietary tool from Colt to remove the barrel nut. I would probably never need to do that, but it's one more hurdle if you need to.
I don't know about the LMT you had, but I've seen many other free-floated handguards that also require you swap out the barrel nut to a proprietary one, and most require a special tool -- although some do allow you to use a standard AR barrel nut wrench.
Since the OP splurged for the Troy handguard already, he should remain in that mindset with a replacement if that's the route he chooses. If he's worried about the quality of his build, he shouldn't be cheaping out to start with. Much of the cheap stuff on the market was designed and marketed for airsoft rifles. Those items just happen to also fit real ARs, but they aren't close to the standards set for manufacturing actual firearm accessories. Sometimes you can live with cheap for non-critical parts, but for a handguard and front sight, I'd say buy the best you can within a reasonable budget. What he already spent for the handguard he has was a reasonable amount.
What did your friend do with the AR9? Depending on how long I'd owned it, I would think contacting the manufacturer would be a good start. If that model has a defective design, they need to know about it and be given a chance to correct it. That's not possible on a self-built AR, so it depends on who built the AR9. If it's his own build, maybe contact the handguard maker to see it there is a fix. Some companies stand behind their product 100%.
I don't look at firearm parts the same as most stuff I buy. I expect them to be serviceable and perform as expected. If I have a problem with a purchase, someone is going to hear about it!
:geekdanc:
Post by: drck1000 on March 19, 2024, 12:13:49 PM
The main issue with the Colt I had with the monolithic rail, besides weight and the quad-rail handguard, is you needed a special, proprietary tool from Colt to remove the barrel nut. I would probably never need to do that, but it's one more hurdle if you need to.The LMT was MRP. It had a pretty neat barrel lockup, and was multi-caliber capable. Just needed a torque wrench, which was provided with the gun, with sort of a clamping action on the side of the receiver. I just checked and the complete uppers are going for more than what I bought the complete gun for.
I don't know about the LMT you had, but I've seen many other free-floated handguards that also require you swap out the barrel nut to a proprietary one, and most require a special tool -- although some do allow you to use a standard AR barrel nut wrench.
Since the OP splurged for the Troy handguard already, he should remain in that mindset with a replacement if that's the route he chooses. If he's worried about the quality of his build, he shouldn't be cheaping out to start with. Much of the cheap stuff on the market was designed and marketed for airsoft rifles. Those items just happen to also fit real ARs, but they aren't close to the standards set for manufacturing actual firearm accessories. Sometimes you can live with cheap for non-critical parts, but for a handguard and front sight, I'd say buy the best you can within a reasonable budget. What he already spent for the handguard he has was a reasonable amount.
What did your friend do with the AR9? Depending on how long I'd owned it, I would think contacting the manufacturer would be a good start. If that model has a defective design, they need to know about it and be given a chance to correct it. That's not possible on a self-built AR, so it depends on who built the AR9. If it's his own build, maybe contact the handguard maker to see it there is a fix. Some companies stand behind their product 100%.
I don't look at firearm parts the same as most stuff I buy. I expect them to be serviceable and perform as expected. If I have a problem with a purchase, someone is going to hear about it!
:geekdanc:
No idea what my friend did with the AR9.
Post by: ren on March 19, 2024, 01:04:31 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 19, 2024, 04:22:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPg_CS7ACAU
Excellent video.
I predict someone will be placing a WTS ad soon with an MRO.
Post by: ren on March 19, 2024, 05:01:14 PM
(https://i0.wp.com/www.thenewrifleman.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/barrel-nut-m4-geissele-automatics-e1468282705838.jpg?fit=1024%2C512&ssl=1)
There's a lot more to worry about than an exposed FSB being hot. Parallax issues. Rail flex. An M4 clone with a non free floated RAS and Aimpoint Pro is a better option.
Post by: drck1000 on March 19, 2024, 05:53:23 PM
The Troy rails' weakness like many early designs was the barrel nut. Compare theirs to a Geiselle and the difference is clear. Hence the Geiselle rail is a lot more solid than the Troy.Yup. I have an older version of this one. It’s been solid. Little heavier than the BCM rails that I have on other guns, but the barrel nut and lockup is tight…
(https://i0.wp.com/www.thenewrifleman.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/barrel-nut-m4-geissele-automatics-e1468282705838.jpg?fit=1024%2C512&ssl=1)
No sakmak, not what she said…
https://geissele.com/13-5-super-modular-rail-mk14-m-lokr-black.html
Post by: macsak on March 19, 2024, 07:26:48 PM
Yup. I have an older version of this one. It’s been solid. Little heavier than the BCM rails that I have on other guns, but the barrel nut and lockup is tight…
No sakmak, not what she said…
https://geissele.com/13-5-super-modular-rail-mk14-m-lokr-black.html
Post by: eyeeatingfish on March 19, 2024, 09:59:47 PM
probably???
I like 1 MOA at 1000 yards :D
Post by: drck1000 on March 20, 2024, 08:09:27 AM
I like 1 MOA at 1000 yards :DBest start with minute of 10" circle at 25 yards. . . :P
Kidding. . .mostly. . .
Post by: ren on March 20, 2024, 08:50:33 AM
An Aimpoint RDS is around $400 and Geiselle handguards on sale can be had for less than $200. There are several in the EE on Arfcom.
Post by: ren on March 25, 2024, 06:35:59 AM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on March 25, 2024, 11:22:55 AM
https://youtu.be/BSizVpfqFtw?si=N9PgzsRaOupNVj5o
During the 3rd drum mag dump, the barrel was glowing red already.
I notice he stopped using the handguard completely after about 4 mags and started putting his left hand on the mag/mag well.
I guess he should have brought a cloth to wrap the handguard .... :rofl: