2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jl808 on December 21, 2012, 12:53:10 PM
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Just read LaPierre's commentary. What is the National School Shield Program? Sounds really interesting.
On a related note, can we start a petition to ask our legislators to support this or something similar? It would either be (1) to fund and assign police in all our schools, or (2) support a program where police officers, military or parents can provide volunteer security for the schools of their kids.
We need to do something.
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Just read LaPierre's commentary. What is the National School Shield Program? Sounds really interesting.
On a related note, can we start a petition to ask our legislators to support this or something similar? It would either be (1) to fund and assign police in all our schools, or (2) support a program where police officers, military or parents can provide volunteer security for the schools of their kids.
We need to do something.
:thumbsup: Sounds good. If they can assign officers to stand on the road and do nothing when construction is going on then they can assign them to schools.
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:thumbsup: Sounds good. If they can assign officers to stand on the road and do nothing when construction is going on then they can assign them to schools.
I may be wrong but I believe that those officers you see are off duty and getting paid by the construction company, Just like those who escort large loads on the highways. Now, the 26 other state workers standing around watching one guy... thats another story. Personally I would not want the type of officers I see around here at my childs school. They should be someone to set an example. The large majority of the local PD here would not qualify.
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I may be wrong but I believe that those officers you see are off duty and getting paid by the construction company, Just like those who escort large loads on the highways. Now, the 26 other state workers standing around watching one guy... thats another story. Personally I would not want the type of officers I see around here at my childs school. They should be someone to set an example. The large majority of the local PD here would not qualify.
Yes I'm pretty sure the officers at the job sites are rent-a-cops.. Paid by the construction companies who do public works projects, hence upstream it is still taxpayer monies (well indirectly anyway).
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:thumbsup: Sounds good. If they can assign officers to stand on the road and do nothing when construction is going on then they can assign them to schools.
Yes, that is off duty work. Hired and paid for by private companies.
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I know many High Schools here already have an assigned campus Police Officer...
Elementary/Intermediate schools... that would be alot of officers....
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Allowing CCW by all school employees would work.
Would probably work better. Doesn't matter if or how many faculty have weapons, just the fact that they ~might~ would be enough to stop most of the problems.
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I may be wrong but I believe that those officers you see are off duty and getting paid by the construction company, Just like those who escort large loads on the highways. Now, the 26 other state workers standing around watching one guy... thats another story. Personally I would not want the type of officers I see around here at my childs school. They should be someone to set an example. The large majority of the local PD here would not qualify.
hmm...I didn't know that. Kinda odd that they're in uniform. If they're off duty then I think they should be dressed in those yellow/orange construction shirts like the other construction guys. I agree with you that majority of the local PD wouldn't qualify ;)
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Perception is everything. I propose to call the idea the "School Marshall" program. Like "Air Marshall" except in schools. It is a more politically correct term so we don't scare the anti-g crowd.
In order for the program to be effective, the marshal would NEED to be in plain-clothes. Otherwise he/she might as well be painted with a laser.
I would volunteer in a heartbeat.
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I would volunteer in a heartbeat.
I know many who would volunteer too.
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School Marshall sounds like a good name. Is this something HRA and all the other groups are going to agree on and support?
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Love it or hate it, here is the website for the National School Shield Program being proposed by the NRA.
http://nraschoolshield.com/
Not much detail yet though.
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Love it or hate it, here is the website for the National School Shield Program being proposed by the NRA.
http://nraschoolshield.com/ (http://nraschoolshield.com/)
Not much detail yet though.
Sounds promising providing the security force has the proper training and certification like he said. He said local communities would have a say in whether they want it or not, so even if anti gun communities oppose the idea, they could elect to not partake in the program. Also, I like that he said each community could tailor to their own needs, so not the one size fits all typical bureaucratic solution that gets rammed down everyone's throat. Will be interesting to see more details and how this proposed program will play out in the debate.
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LaPierre does point out a glaring issue. Next time you walk into your bank, unless you now do all your banking on the web, do you value your money more than your child's safety? Is armed protection only for the elite or those who can presently afford it? A gun free zone is a name for potential targets by the animals who care nothing about the safety of others. I am still amazed at the amount of sheeple who really believe taking guns away from those who by right and freedom are deserving to have them and that any ban will prevent events like Sandy Hook. The real cause isn't the gun but the person behind the gun and as evidenced by this tragedy as a society we have relaxed mental health care.
Dave
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......................I would volunteer in a heartbeat.
I wouldn't. This is what LEO is for. They are supposed to be protecting the citizens. Plus if you look at the liability and protests IMHO it's not worth it. I doubt anyone (or at least too many) would protest an armed LEO on campus.
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We could also use the national guard to help protect schools and won't affect the budget too much. For example use some units monthly drill to be assigned to school duty.
It's not perfect but it could help
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I wouldn't. This is what LEO is for. They are supposed to be protecting the citizens. Plus if you look at the liability and protests IMHO it's not worth it. I doubt anyone (or at least too many) would protest an armed LEO on campus.
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Perhaps you would feel differently if you had a stake in the game, as I do.
Also, LEO's cost money....not likely to happen in this day and age.
Furthermore, would this not qualify me as being a member of a "well regulated militia" whose right to bear arms shall not be infringed?
I view it as a "Call to arms".... Necessary to DEFEND the freedom and security of our children against the drug induced, mentally distorted trolls that liberal attitudes, policies and practices have set forth upon us.
OK that is my rant for this month. I better take my blood pressure med now.
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We could also use the national guard to help protect schools and won't affect the budget too much. For example use some units monthly drill to be assigned to school duty.
It's not perfect but it could help
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No school on the weekends...LOL :rofl:
But seriously, that works for me if that were possible to coordinate and did not interfere with their regular NG duties.
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I wouldn't. This is what LEO is for. They are supposed to be protecting the citizens. Plus if you look at the liability and protests IMHO it's not worth it. I doubt anyone (or at least too many) would protest an armed LEO on campus.
Law enforcement is not there to protect anyone in specific....
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We could also use the national guard to help protect schools and won't affect the budget too much. For example use some units monthly drill to be assigned to school duty.
It's not perfect but it could help
This is the dumbest idea yet. It's not like national guardsmen have a regular job during the week. That's why drill is on the weekends. Plus training is accomplished on drill weekends.
State sheriffs are state employees. It would be easier for DOE to appropriate money for special duty sheriffs. Kamehameha, Maryknoll, and Punahou all hire state sheriffs for security and traffic control.
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We could also use the national guard to help protect schools and won't affect the budget too much. For example use some units monthly drill to be assigned to school duty.
Do you even realize how insane that would be? The National Guard is a branch of the US military. Ever hear of posse comitatus? The only exceptions would be if the Governor or President/Congress signed off on it. And that has only happened when there has been mass riots or the post Civil War period. There's a reason why there are legal hoops you have to jump through in order to have the military police the citizenry - and it's to prevent of us from becoming a militarized police state.
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Do you even realize how insane that would be? The National Guard is a branch of the US military. Ever hear of posse comitatus? The only exceptions would be if the Governor or President/Congress signed off on it. And that has only happened when there has been mass riots or the post Civil War period. There's a reason why there are legal hoops you have to jump through in order to have the military police the citizenry - and it's to prevent of us from becoming a militarized police state.
Sorry but your wrong, National guard is NOT subject to posse comitatus and therefor does not need presidential approval for domestic missions. The national guard falls under the governor of its individual state and it primary obligation is to their state.
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We could also use the national guard to help protect schools and won't affect the budget too much. For example use some units monthly drill to be assigned to school duty.
It's not perfect but it could help
This would be an acceptable solution to me, however I seriously doubt that the National Guard has the manpower to post people at each and every public school (think of how many elementary, middle, and high schools we have here on Oahu alone..............also the logisitics of getting people out to the outer islands is an issue as well).
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Perhaps you would feel differently if you had a stake in the game, as I do.
Also, LEO's cost money....not likely to happen in this day and age.
Furthermore, would this not qualify me as being a member of a "well regulated militia" whose right to bear arms shall not be infringed?
I view it as a "Call to arms".... Necessary to DEFEND the freedom and security of our children against the drug induced, mentally distorted trolls that liberal attitudes, policies and practices have set forth upon us.
OK that is my rant for this month. I better take my blood pressure med now.
I most certainly do accept that you have the Right to defend your family be they at school, the mall, the local court, etc. What I have issues with is that how can we determine those doing the guarding have the ability and temperament to guard all the people in the schools? Keep in mind that LEO's and NG are already tasked with those duties.
I'm not talking on a Constitutional matter I'm talking about this on a practical level. Just the same as disarming every law abiding firearms owning citizen in the US is not practical, I don't think it's practical for non LEO/NG/military personnel to guard schools. Man I don't know if you've ever working for the Govt, but damn they regulate everything. They'll whack you up for failure to file a safety plan, an action plan, for not having AHA's generated, etc. It's frikken nuts the BS paperwork you have to go through to deal with the Govt.
To give you more insight, my mom was a teacher for years. It would boggle your mind to find out the BS the parents pull too. Trust me when I tell you there will be personal lawsuits against those private individuals who volunteer to guard the schools and you will not have the backing of a union and their lawyers or the State and their lawyers to defend yourself.
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Law enforcement is not there to protect anyone in specific....
True
This is the dumbest idea yet. It's not like national guardsmen have a regular job during the week. That's why drill is on the weekends. Plus training is accomplished on drill weekends.
State sheriffs are state employees. It would be easier for DOE to appropriate money for special duty sheriffs. Kamehameha, Maryknoll, and Punahou all hire state sheriffs for security and traffic control.
If the Govs so choose to activate the NG there's no such thing as their normal jobs. The question is can the Govs activate personnel one at a time so that their staggered active duty coincides with time to guard schools.
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The national guard falls under the governor of its individual state and it primary obligation is to their state.
Which is why I said it takes the Governor's approval to do so: "The only exceptions would be if the Governor or President/Congress signed off on it."
The President could also take control of the National Guard like he did during the LA riots, invoking the Insurrection Act.
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If the Govs so choose to activate the NG there's no such thing as their normal jobs. The question is can the Govs activate personnel one at a time so that their staggered active duty coincides with time to guard schools.
State Active Duty (SAD) can be mandated for individuals or units. The mission requirements will dictate how many people are needed. The State budget dictates how many people can be paid in the call up.
There would also be a need for additional training to become and armed guard for domestic use = more money, time, ammo, and PPT presentations.
There are a number of National Guardsmen that have "civilian" jobs that take precedence over their part time jobs for the State. The State Sheriff is one such man. The Governor would rather have him doing his law enforcement job rather that getting called out to command a company of headquarters types.
Many civilian LEOs and EMTs are National Guard one weekend a month. It is when they get federalized that big changes occur and they legally no longer have jurisdiction over the US Civilian matters. HPD, State Sheriffs Dept, HFD, EMTs and even FBI suffered major manpower drain since 2003 till present.
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^^^Thank you sir, very informative.