Post by: tim808 on April 18, 2024, 03:51:53 PM
They mentioned that once I register the complete rifle, I cannot swap the upper for one in a different caliber. I would get in trouble if hpd found my ar with a different caliber upper
They also mentioned the same for pistols. If hpd found my G23 (40sw) had a 9mm conversion barrel, I would be in trouble
Because I had modified the firearm to a different caliber than what is in hpd records
I thought only the ar lower and the pistol frame were the “firearm”
This is the first time anyone at the counter has mentioned this. Are they right that using a different caliber is a violation?
I do understand that police do try to build up more charges when they try to arrest/convict someone
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 18, 2024, 05:58:05 PM
I registered a rifle that came with 3 barrels: .22LR, .22WMR and .17HMR.
When I bought the rifle from a 2A member, it was registered as a .22LR.
When I registered, it had the .17HMR barrel installed.
The RECEIVER or FRAME is the firearm by ATF definition. If you switch parts, the serial number still follows the firearm.
As for your receiver, most AR lowers I bought had MULTI as the caliber stamped on it. There's a reason for that. :geekdanc:
If they registered the lower as "MULTI" when you bought it, the registration is correct no matter what barrel you install.
So, if you install a .223 Wylde barrel, doesn't it also use 5.56 caliber ammo? Also, a 5.56 barrel shoots .223 ammo. No barrel change required. :crazy:
I'd like to throw a P320 at them and see their heads explode. That pistol was designed and marketed specifically for locations and individuals who want or need a limited number of registered firearms but with the capability to change calibers, frame sizes, threaded barrel vs. not threaded, etc.
I'd ask them where it states in the law that barrels of different calibers are not allowed to be swapped on a registered firearm. If they can't point to it, then I'd just ignore them. Sounds more like a policy than a law. You can't get a "charge" if there's nothing in the law or ordinances saying it's prohibited.
I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my advice as gospel. But with the number of caliber-swappable firearms legally available here, and with no mention of them in the statute, they'd be hard pressed to find a law you broke.
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 18, 2024, 06:18:27 PM
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Post by: zippz on April 18, 2024, 07:02:25 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 18, 2024, 07:08:13 PM
Easy way to find out. We can all submit an online registration everytime we change calibers on a firearm. See how long that lasts.
Or submit it twice a day -- with or without an actual swap.
Just to play it safe, of course. Don't want to make the change BEFORE the registration is effective!
:geekdanc: :thumbsup:
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 18, 2024, 07:44:17 PM
Or submit it twice a day -- with or without an actual swap.Not our problem their behind. Maybe i feel like swapping ever 10 mins.
Just to play it safe, of course. Don't want to make the change BEFORE the registration is effective!
:geekdanc:
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Post by: tim808 on April 18, 2024, 09:10:53 PM
Post by: randay on April 19, 2024, 06:44:42 AM
Best thing to do at the firearms window is nod and say ok sir.
Post by: mrgaf on April 19, 2024, 12:48:44 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 19, 2024, 02:59:37 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 19, 2024, 05:02:16 PM
What if you take the upper off. Now the "rifle" shoots no caliber.
That's why they put "Multi" on the lower receiver.
When it's transferred as a receiver only, the caliber is whatever the hell the owner decides to make it.
Where did common sense go? I miss it sooooooo much!
:(
(https://i.imgur.com/nftQTsS.png)
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 19, 2024, 05:44:29 PM
.223 Remington
5.56 NATO
300 Blackout
7.62x39
.22LR
.350 Legend
.450 Bushmaster
.458 SOCOM
.50 Beowolf
.300 HAM'R
.30 Remington AR
.25-45 Sharps
.22 Nosler
.204 Ruger
.224 Valkyrie
6.5 Grendel
6.8 SPC
6mm ARC
I don't think this list is exhaustive, but it illustrates why "Multi" is the best caliber to register the receiver as. That also makes the paperwork match the markings on the receiver.
There is no way the Cops can "get you in trouble" for configuring YOUR OWN firearm for ANY caliber it's capable of using as long as that caliber isn't banned -- like they want to do for .50 BMG.
That's just more HPD made-up BS. Too bad they aren't focusing on the real problems in this state, like the mythical rise in crime.
IMHO
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 19, 2024, 07:13:12 PM
Possible calibers for an AR-15 lower:Theres about 77 or so calibers. Hifico wrote that in their testimony when HI tried to pass a law that u need the caliber of gun. So they stated people would name 77 calibers on the reg. I think that was too much work for hpd and they scraped the law.
.223 Remington
5.56 NATO
300 Blackout
7.62x39
.22LR
.350 Legend
.450 Bushmaster
.458 SOCOM
.50 Beowolf
.300 HAM'R
.30 Remington AR
.25-45 Sharps
.22 Nosler
.204 Ruger
.224 Valkyrie
6.5 Grendel
6.8 SPC
6mm ARC
I don't think this list is exhaustive, but it illustrates why "Multi" is the best caliber to register the receiver as. That also makes the paperwork match the markings on the receiver.
There is no way the Cops can "get you in trouble" for configuring YOUR OWN firearm for ANY caliber it's capable of using as long as that caliber isn't banned -- like they want to do for .50 BMG.
That's just more HPD made-up BS. Too bad they aren't focusing on the real problems in this state, like the mythical rise in crime.
IMHO
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 22, 2024, 09:41:14 PM
I was registering a lower and I was reminded to come back when I install the upper.
They mentioned that once I register the complete rifle, I cannot swap the upper for one in a different caliber. I would get in trouble if hpd found my ar with a different caliber upper
They also mentioned the same for pistols. If hpd found my G23 (40sw) had a 9mm conversion barrel, I would be in trouble
Because I had modified the firearm to a different caliber than what is in hpd records
I thought only the ar lower and the pistol frame were the “firearm”
This is the first time anyone at the counter has mentioned this. Are they right that using a different caliber is a violation?
I do understand that police do try to build up more charges when they try to arrest/convict someone
No, that is not a thing. I wonder if the officer misunderstood something about the issue, like if you were going to change it from a rifle to a pistol with a pistol length barrel or something like that. You would expect the officers at the firearms section would know more about gun laws than the rest.
There is no law that says changing a caliber alone is illegal. If they say this ask them where the HRS says that.
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 23, 2024, 08:08:48 AM
If they say this ask them where the HRS says that.
Then 5 cops will come to the front to harass you. I mean, it's not like there's a video of that....
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 23, 2024, 08:39:16 AM
Then 5 cops will come to the front to harass you. I mean, it's not like there's a video of that....
Cops don't like it when you ask them to prove what they say is actually true.
That applies to gun registration laws, red flag laws, hypotheticals, nuances ....
Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 25, 2024, 09:04:04 PM
Cops don't like it when you ask them to prove what they say is actually true.
That applies to gun registration laws, red flag laws, hypotheticals, nuances ....
So you are a cop?
Post by: macsak on April 25, 2024, 09:18:03 PM
So you are a cop?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 25, 2024, 09:22:47 PM
So you are a cop?
Is it your belief that you have to be the person to know what they do and don't like?
Does that mean you're a woman, or as a man you do not know what your wife likes and dislikes?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 25, 2024, 09:48:42 PM
Is it your belief that you have to be the person to know what they do and don't like?
Does that mean you're a woman, or as a man you do not know what your wife likes and dislikes?
You attributed something to cops and then listed things that you do saying it applies to cops so.....
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 26, 2024, 08:30:37 AM
You attributed something to cops and then listed things that you do saying it applies to cops so.....
There's vids of this happening. Not only locally, but nationwide as well. Plus many who have personal XP, including myself when I questioned what was told by HPD at the window about the law. Notice how he didn't say applies to all cops. So for whataboutism, 2 or more is cop(s).
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 26, 2024, 10:30:18 AM
There's vids of this happening. Not only locally, but nationwide as well. Plus many who have personal XP, including myself when I questioned what was told by HPD at the window about the law. Notice how he didn't say applies to all cops. So for whataboutism, 2 or more is cop(s).
The hypocrisy is how often he opines on topics he has zero knowledge of or experience with.
But everyone else needs to shut up unless they are part of the group being criticized. :crazy:
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 26, 2024, 11:29:57 AM
The hypocrisy is how often he opines on topics he has zero knowledge of or experience with.
But everyone else needs to shut up unless they are part of the group being criticized. :crazy:
Or maybe he uses confirmation bias. Since he was never told how things need to be done at the HPD firearms window like many have that were incorrect. I mean, does EEF have to wait in line like everyone else?
Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 27, 2024, 09:58:27 PM
There's vids of this happening. Not only locally, but nationwide as well. Plus many who have personal XP, including myself when I questioned what was told by HPD at the window about the law. Notice how he didn't say applies to all cops. So for whataboutism, 2 or more is cop(s).
"Cops don't like it when you ask them to prove what they say is actually true" clearly is a blanket statement and not referring to two + cops he met. If he said some cops, many cops, a lot of cops, etc. then it wouldn't be a blanket statement.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 27, 2024, 09:59:47 PM
The hypocrisy is how often he opines on topics he has zero knowledge of or experience with.
But everyone else needs to shut up unless they are part of the group being criticized. :crazy:
So you claim I am a cop but then suggest I have zero knowledge or experience. Talk about hypocrisy.
Post by: macsak on April 27, 2024, 10:14:10 PM
So you claim I am a cop but then suggest I have zero knowledge or experience. Talk about hypocrisy.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 27, 2024, 10:30:11 PM
So you claim I am a cop but then suggest I have zero knowledge or experience. Talk about hypocrisy.
Is it your belief that being on a payroll equates to having knowledge and experience of all areas in the organization?
Reminds me of some people I've seen online: "I know about the military because my father was enlisted."
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 27, 2024, 11:09:39 PM
"Cops don't like it when you ask them to prove what they say is actually true" clearly is a blanket statement and not referring to two + cops he met. If he said some cops, many cops, a lot of cops, etc. then it wouldn't be a blanket statement.Hahahahhaha.
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Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 27, 2024, 11:59:17 PM
Hahahahhaha.
He'd argue if you said the sky is blue.
Nuance.
Objective.
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 28, 2024, 08:38:20 AM
He'd argue if you said the sky is blue.Theres also a chance that all cops changed their views since as of my posting within the milisecond it could happen.
Nuance.
Objective.
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Post by: eyeeatingfish on April 28, 2024, 10:49:06 PM
Is it your belief that being on a payroll equates to having knowledge and experience of all areas in the organization?
Reminds me of some people I've seen online: "I know about the military because my father was enlisted."
I opine on topics because I have knowledge, unlike you. If I don't have knowledge then I pose questions to have discussions and learn.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on April 29, 2024, 12:54:27 AM
I opine on topics because I have knowledge, unlike you. If I don't have knowledge then I pose questions to have discussions and learn.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: changemyoil66 on April 29, 2024, 08:39:56 AM
I opine on topics because I have knowledge, unlike you. If I don't have knowledge then I pose questions to have discussions and learn.
How do we know you're not trying to get someone to say something they shouldn't be?
How do we know you're not a bot?
How do we know you're even in HI?
How do we know that you're not gathering info to write a book?
How do we know you're not a reporter?
How do we know you're of legal age to own a firearm or not be under your parents/guardian care (18)?
All plausible. #objective #nuance #whataboutism
Post by: eyeeatingfish on May 01, 2024, 08:56:33 PM
How do we know you're not trying to get someone to say something they shouldn't be?
Paranoid....
Quote
How do we know you're not a bot?
Is that a thing on forums like this? I've met people on here in person, if I am a bot I must be very advanced and convincing to them.
Quote
How do we know you're even in HI?
Relevance? But to answer, see above.
Quote
How do we know that you're not gathering info to write a book?
Is writing a book a problem? If I did would you buy a copy?
Quote
How do we know you're not a reporter?
I guess you don't, but then again, what would be the issue there? I haven't noticed you say anything that would be newsworthy.
Quote
How do we know you're of legal age to own a firearm or not be under your parents/guardian care (18)?
I would be a very old looking 16 year old.
Post by: macsak on May 01, 2024, 10:13:55 PM
Paranoid....
Is that a thing on forums like this? I've met people on here in person, if I am a bot I must be very advanced and convincing to them.
Relevance? But to answer, see above.
Is writing a book a problem? If I did would you buy a copy?
I guess you don't, but then again, what would be the issue there? I haven't noticed you say anything that would be newsworthy.
I would be a very old looking 16 year old.
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 02, 2024, 07:59:30 AM
Paranoid....
Is that a thing on forums like this? I've met people on here in person, if I am a bot I must be very advanced and convincing to them.
Relevance? But to answer, see above.
Is writing a book a problem? If I did would you buy a copy?
I guess you don't, but then again, what would be the issue there? I haven't noticed you say anything that would be newsworthy.
I would be a very old looking 16 year old.
SWOOOOSSSHHH X2
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 02, 2024, 10:50:38 AM
SWOOOOSSSHHH X2
(https://i.imgur.com/byCCAbD.png?1)
Post by: Kentos on May 15, 2024, 05:17:42 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on May 15, 2024, 06:23:39 PM
No idea, but years ago when I was building my AR I bought just the stripped lower and registered it. Registration says “caliber multi” or something like that. So I guess if the firearm is registered as a specific caliber maybe you could be open to prosecution. Like registering a g22 for ccw, then converting it to .50. If you got caught with that I don’t doubt they would do all they can to prosecute you.
Unless you change the firearm to use a caliber that's banned, there's nothing to prosecute AFAIK.
HPD makes mistakes in the registration information all the time. i have a registration form that says my Mosin-Nagant 91/30 is a semi-auto rifle. it's not a stretch to blame it on an administrative error.
As far as your g22 example, it's not the same thing. If the firearm is registered as a frame or receiver only and then completed, there was no "conversion." The G22, on the other hand, was registered as one caliber and then converted to another. However, since the serial number remains the same, that, to me, makes it still the same firearm that was registered on the CCW application.
Unless there's a part of the CCW statute that forbids modification of a CCW pistol's size, barrel length, caliber, etc., it's still a pistol or revolver with the same serial number which matches the CCW license paperwork.
That's not a legal opinion. It's my own opinion based on the process and law as I read it.
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 16, 2024, 11:47:11 AM
No idea, but years ago when I was building my AR I bought just the stripped lower and registered it. Registration says “caliber multi” or something like that. So I guess if the firearm is registered as a specific caliber maybe you could be open to prosecution. Like registering a g22 for ccw, then converting it to .50. If you got caught with that I don’t doubt they would do all they can to prosecute you.
This is one problem with requiring guns to be registered. Are any errors of it chargeable? I've had inaccurate info on the reg and was told by the cop at the window, that it's OK, no worry. Not that big of a deal. I had to stress that it is a big deal because they had the wrong model on the reg. Another time, they had the wrong action type. Semi auto was listed, but it's a bolt action. When I told them to change this, this cop did so and didn't say no worry.
There is really no way to know if caliber would trigger a charge from the state because it's never happened before. Majority of the charges are for unregistered guns. I would guess that the serial number, make, model, and your info is correct is what the prosecutor looks for.
Post by: eyeeatingfish on May 17, 2024, 09:18:24 PM
Unless you change the firearm to use a caliber that's banned, there's nothing to prosecute AFAIK.
Are there any banned calibers? I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Post by: changemyoil66 on May 18, 2024, 05:38:05 PM
Are there any banned calibers? I can't think of any off the top of my head.Anything over 50 cal (federal ban).
There are exceptions and permission is needed.
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Post by: Sodie on May 18, 2024, 06:06:57 PM
Anything over 50 cal (federal ban).
There are exceptions and permission is needed.
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I don’t think there’s a “federal ban” on “anything over 50 cal.” They are NFA regulated destructive devices; need a tax stamp just like an SBR or suppressor, I believe.