2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: QUIETShooter on July 10, 2024, 06:22:17 AM
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Hawaii loves to copycat Commiefornia doctrine.
Interesting that the "revolving door" concept only applies to repeat offenders, not law abiding citizens.
Stolen car. 3 individuals enter private property. One with replica gun, one with crowbar.
What did the criminal justice system of commifornia think they were? Jehovah's Witnesses?
Defendant is an old man held in jail according to the report because he refuses to make a statement. The gun he used was reportedly stolen.
Aside from the stolen firearm, this could be me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i7c_pt_rjE&t=18s
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Hawaii will take it several steps further to include a sympathizing media campaign to paint the suspect as a "family person" who was trying to provide for their 5-7 children. The suspect was only trying to steal your aina desecrating brand new 200tree leefted Yota..and you when shoot 'em instead of going up and up. Not fair. The suspect had no real gun.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sacramento-city-attorney-reportedly-threatened-fine-target-store-reporting-theft-crimes
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This is pretty standard, if police think you killed someone you usually get arrested. The police then investigate more and take their findings to the prosecutors who decide whether to prosecute. The question of whether the use of force is justified cannot usually be easily determined by an initial assessment of what happened and requires a greater level of investigation and evidence.
In this case specifically, the fact he had a stolen gun is enough to keep him in custody until the prosecutors make a decision. Even if the shooting were plainly justified they could still hold him for the gun charge while taking the case to the prosecutors.
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I would say there is enough stoopid here to keep cops and lawyers employed for a long time. :rofl:
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. The question of whether the use of force is justified cannot usually be easily determined by an initial assessment of what happened and requires a greater level of investigation and evidence.
I can think of a a bunch of scenarios'. Ego and politics cloud cops judgement.
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I can think of a a bunch of scenarios'. Ego and politics cloud cops judgement.
If the situation was clearly one of self defense I could see a decision being justifiable to not arrest him at the scene. If there were a dozen witnesses and surveillance cameras that clearly show the person exercised a legal use of force then it could be clear but in this case it is not going to be as clear.
I don't really see ego or politics playing a role here, at least not any more than any other decision whether to arrest or charge someone.
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This is pretty standard, if police think you killed someone you usually get arrested.
It's standard Honolulu PD policy to automatically arrest anyone who discharges a firearm outside of an approved shooting range or hunting area. Even police officers who discharge their firearm in the line of duty...they also get arrested automatically. The only difference is that a police officer arrested a line of duty shooting is released under their on recognizance, whereas a civilian has to make bail.
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I didn’t watch the video
Why would someone want to use a stolen gun for home defense.
I’m dumb as a brick but I still see that as a bad idea.
Use a stolen car, get caught, pay the price. Same for a stolen gun.
Everyone pretty much got what was coming for poor decisions
Basically a BG with a stolen gun shooting other BG’s
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I didn’t watch the video
Why would someone want to use a stolen gun for home defense.
I’m dumb as a brick but I still see that as a bad idea.
Use a stolen car, get caught, pay the price. Same for a stolen gun.
Everyone pretty much got what was coming for poor decisions
Basically a BG with a stolen gun shooting other BG’s
I can think of at least two reasons:
-- Can't buy a firearm legally (prohibited), or
-- Stole it themselves or was given the gun/bought it cheap without going through the legal process.$200 gun off the books, or $400 gun plus cost of safety class to get it legally.
Some people assume they will never need to use it or get caught, so why bother?
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It's standard Honolulu PD policy to automatically arrest anyone who discharges a firearm outside of an approved shooting range or hunting area. Even police officers who discharge their firearm in the line of duty...they also get arrested automatically. The only difference is that a police officer arrested a line of duty shooting is released under their on recognizance, whereas a civilian has to make bail.
This is not the case.
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which part?
This is not the case.
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If I couldn’t legally own a firearm (ie a felon), I would get either a paintball gun and use balls with a metal core
Or an airgun. I heard some are used for hunting. I think there are semi auto versions
Or maybe a black powder gun?? I don’t know annything about them…like how fast to load….
Or a full auto BB gun?? Remember the ones at the carnival / state fair….I wouldn’t want to get shot by one.
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If I couldn’t legally own a firearm (ie a felon), I would get either a paintball gun and use balls with a metal core
Or an airgun. I heard some are used for hunting. I think there are semi auto versions
Or maybe a black powder gun?? I don’t know annything about them…like how fast to load….
Or a full auto BB gun?? Remember the ones at the carnival / state fair….I wouldn’t want to get shot by one.
So, you'd feel confident using any of the above? Would they be a match against someone else with a Glock?
Or against someone who's stronger than you using a weapon -- knife, pipe, hammer?
I'd expect someone already looking to hurt me would just get more pissed off if I started shooting BBs at them. I've heard of people being shot with a .22 pocket gun and getting really mad -- just before they beat the guy shooting them half to death.
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which part?
Officers aren't arrested automatically when they discharge their firearm in the line of duty.
Really nothing he said is true.
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Officers aren't arrested automatically when they discharge their firearm in the line of duty.
Really nothing he said is true.
I was told this by a recently retired HPD officer around 2008. It's not like officers are handcuffed and take to jail like civilians. He said once officer is booked, they take his firearm for evidence and immediately issue them a new one. I don't see any reason for that retired police officer to lie about something like that.
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I was told this by a recently retired HPD officer around 2008. It's not like officers are handcuffed and take to jail like civilians. He said once officer is booked, they take his firearm for evidence and immediately issue them a new one. I don't see any reason for that retired police officer to lie about something like that.
I think something was lost in communication. The officer is not booked but they do take his gun as evidence at the scene and will later be given a new gun.
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I do own firearms but they are all locked away.
Only a flashlight/pepper spray/machete are readily accessible
Granted they probably won’t stop a guy with gun.
I read somewhere that if you own a firearm, the statistics are greater that a friend/relative/spouse/neighbor will get you vs a stranger.
I never did research on that statistic cause we know that statistics can be slanted (guns kill xx amount of people…..yet it doesn’t note that yy of that amount were suicides)
But it seemed somewhat realistic to me. I come from a small island so there are few strangers, all the shootings/killings I recall were passion and/or alcohol related. Yes, a small island may not be the norm.
This is just anecdotal stuff:
I’ve lived in Ewa/Kapolei for about 13 years and in PC for about 21. I don’t watch the news but I don’t recall any forced entries. There is no public housing in both areas so I think that makes a difference. We do have robberies in PC….often of older people that can’t hear
I’m more worried about getting killed by a drunk driver or someone talking/texting while driving….or electrocuted at work….. than someone shooting me.
A coworker has lived in the area by McKinley HS for about 35 years and the only shooting I can recall was a drive by shooting on a couple walking along the street….i think the girl died…it was a few years ago. Coworker has more than pepper spray on his note stand
My other coworker lives on Kam IV rd near KPT….about 15-20years. There have been a few times when HPD have raided homes. But no shootings I can recall. I think he has nothing….not even pepper spray.
My cousins lived on Democrat St. The shops have pau Hana after work. Gritty place. 3 of 4 cousins got hooked on ice. Rough place but no shootings I can recall. I’m kind of surprised about that. I sort of assumed that they and lot of others in the area had stolen guns.
I guess if I lived in a not so great place, I would try to move. If I couldn’t move, then I might consider a readily accessible firearm.
lol. I looked up neighborhoodscout.com….my area is one of the most unsafe…. 7 or 8/10 in PC. Our area includes the shopping center which has homeless….that probably messes up the statistics.
Our area in Kapolei is also unsafe….like 7 or 8/10. I don’t recall there ever being a shooting or forced entry.
Barbers Point and East Kapolei are more unsafe. I assume it’s because of the homeless.
We have always owned 2 dogs and I don’t watch the news so that probably helps with my outlook (head in the sand perhaps)
USA has the most mass shootings by far. If I went by that, I would ccw
I get concerned if out late at night. Don’t want to be certain areas when it’s getting late
The Pupu streets even in the middle of the day is a little sketchy…..groups of kids walking around. I had to inspect some stuff in the area…it was okay….no one really pays attention to people in work clothes/shoes and PPE’s. I’d be a little hesitant of leaving X-ring at night….but seems to be ok….haven’t heard any horror stories about people who use at X-ring at night
Palolo housing and Kalihi Valley housing are mellow in the day. Mostly old people and toddlers in the day.
I feel if I avoid places where the young kids hang around at night, I’m relatively safe overall from violence.
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I do own firearms but they are all locked away.
Same here. I do have some metal pipes under my computer desk in our living room.
I have a mag flashlight that I can use as a club by my bedstand.
Depending on the situation, the firearms might find their way out of the safe and on my body while at home. But if we ever find ourselves in a SHTF or WROL situation the firearms will definitely be out and about.
Thinking about getting a handgun safe to install by my computer desk and by my nightstand.
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I do own firearms but they are all locked away.
Only a flashlight/pepper spray/machete are readily accessible
Granted they probably won’t stop a guy with gun.
I read somewhere that if you own a firearm, the statistics are greater that a friend/relative/spouse/neighbor will get you vs a stranger.
I never did research on that statistic cause we know that statistics can be slanted (guns kill xx amount of people…..yet it doesn’t note that yy of that amount were suicides)
But it seemed somewhat realistic to me. I come from a small island so there are few strangers, all the shootings/killings I recall were passion and/or alcohol related. Yes, a small island may not be the norm.
This is just anecdotal stuff:
I’ve lived in Ewa/Kapolei for about 13 years and in PC for about 21. I don’t watch the news but I don’t recall any forced entries. There is no public housing in both areas so I think that makes a difference. We do have robberies in PC….often of older people that can’t hear
I’m more worried about getting killed by a drunk driver or someone talking/texting while driving….or electrocuted at work….. than someone shooting me.
A coworker has lived in the area by McKinley HS for about 35 years and the only shooting I can recall was a drive by shooting on a couple walking along the street….i think the girl died…it was a few years ago. Coworker has more than pepper spray on his note stand
My other coworker lives on Kam IV rd near KPT….about 15-20years. There have been a few times when HPD have raided homes. But no shootings I can recall. I think he has nothing….not even pepper spray.
My cousins lived on Democrat St. The shops have pau Hana after work. Gritty place. 3 of 4 cousins got hooked on ice. Rough place but no shootings I can recall. I’m kind of surprised about that. I sort of assumed that they and lot of others in the area had stolen guns.
I guess if I lived in a not so great place, I would try to move. If I couldn’t move, then I might consider a readily accessible firearm.
lol. I looked up neighborhoodscout.com….my area is one of the most unsafe…. 7 or 8/10 in PC. Our area includes the shopping center which has homeless….that probably messes up the statistics.
Our area in Kapolei is also unsafe….like 7 or 8/10. I don’t recall there ever being a shooting or forced entry.
Barbers Point and East Kapolei are more unsafe. I assume it’s because of the homeless.
We have always owned 2 dogs and I don’t watch the news so that probably helps with my outlook (head in the sand perhaps)
USA has the most mass shootings by far. If I went by that, I would ccw
I get concerned if out late at night. Don’t want to be certain areas when it’s getting late
The Pupu streets even in the middle of the day is a little sketchy…..groups of kids walking around. I had to inspect some stuff in the area…it was okay….no one really pays attention to people in work clothes/shoes and PPE’s. I’d be a little hesitant of leaving X-ring at night….but seems to be ok….haven’t heard any horror stories about people who use at X-ring at night
Palolo housing and Kalihi Valley housing are mellow in the day. Mostly old people and toddlers in the day.
I feel if I avoid places where the young kids hang around at night, I’m relatively safe overall from violence.
I'd like to offer a few questions to ponder.
Do you own a fire extinguisher?
Do you know the odds of needing one?
Do you know the odds of getting to an extinguishers when you wake up to a fire?
Do you own and carry a spare tire and jack in your vehicles?
How many times have you needed to use them in the last 20 years?
Do you own any tourniquets?
How many times have you used one?
Do you see the common thread here?
It's not about how likely you are to need a gun (or any other thing I asked about). It's about the consequences of not having one if you should ever need one.
Today, home and business defibrillators are selling like hotcakes. The odds that anyone in your home or at your business will need one is a fraction of a percent.
The real question is this: when your life is on the line, why would you not want to have the necessary items or tools -- and training -- to save your own life or the lives of others?
Just like cleaning supplies and other poisonous products you store at home, you have to do an assessment of how likely it is a child OR ADULT will accidentally be poisoned. You wouldn't take a busted package of rat poison and transfer it to an empty sugar decanter without taking precautions. Even an adult could mistake it for sugar.
You don't put bleach in an empty water bottle without marking it.
For every danger in the home, you try to mitigate that danger. Locks, locking cabinets, safes, labels, childproof lids or cabinet door latches, shelves or appliance a child can't reach above, ... whatever in your estimation is needed to make it safer.
There have been a couple of studies that paint the picture that guns in the home increases the risk you or someone living with you will be murdered.
What the studies don't account for is the flip-side of the argument. At least as many, and perhaps as many as 2 million gun owners, successfully defend their lives and the lives of others each year. That, compared to the 30,000 estimated gun-related deaths each year is to me a big argument for self protection. But when about 9,000 of those are considered "regular" homicides and accidents, and the others are gang-related or suicides, the gap widens.
Would you rather try to avoid being one of the 9,000 murder statistics, or would you rather be one of the 30,000-2M successful self defense statistics?
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Maybe later when my son is older. Or if I get a biometric safe.
For now, I feel that because my home is off the ground (post/pier), 2 dogs are in the yard and I have pepper spray and a machete. I have enough layers that will have a criminal either look for lower hanging fruit…. or if they still want to try to enter my home while my dogs are barking…..the pepper spray and machete may help them to reconsider.
Yes, it does not suffice for an attacker that has a gun. For me, I feel the odds of that situation are low enough that doesn’t warrant the risk of keeping a readily accessible firearm in the house since death by family is 2x more like than death by stranger if a firearm is accessible.
The probability of dying by some type of accident is like 10x more than death by murder
That is I why I’m more worried about a drunk driver and people texting/talking while driving.
(My 5 near death experiences were when a car blew thru a red light at the intersection of kamehameha and Likelike and 4x shooting with moron friends who don’t know how to reload)
I think the average # of homicides in Hawaii is about 30. Based on statistics…20 are killed by family/friend and 10 are by strangers. Of the 10 killed by strangers…I’m guessing the bulk are homeless or young people hanging out late at night or drug related homicides. Maybe 1-2 are from strangers invading and killing home owners
So say 2 murders per year of typical/average homeowners and a population of about 1M on Oahu. So the chance of murder by a stranger is like 0.000002….or 0.0002%. And because our home is elevated, protected by dogs and we have some means to protect ourselves….it betters our odds by maybe a factor of 10…..or .00002%
We could improve our odds by keeping an accessible firearm in the home and training….to say 0.0000002%. But I’m ok with 0.00002% and would rather spend my time and money on health/exercise and my grandson
Homicide is not in the top 10 causes of death for my age group. I would rather address the top 10 because I feel it would have a greater impact on my longevity than on a cause of death outside the top ten
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Keep in mind that a firearm used for self defense doesn't mean it had to be fired. My friend caught a guy trying to break into his home thru his window. Once he saw the AR, the guy ran away and never came back.
The guy was removing gelousies (sp?). He shined his WML from his AR at him. The guy was blinded as he couldn't see anything but the bright light. He still continued to remove gelousies. So he didn't care if he was spotted. My friend then shined the light at the ceiling to illuminate the AR and then the guy saw it and ran.
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...
Yes, it does not suffice for an attacker that has a gun. For me, I feel the odds of that situation are low enough that doesn’t warrant the risk of keeping a readily accessible firearm in the house since death by family is 2x more like than death by stranger if a firearm is accessible.
...
Also keep in mind that that statistic is a "Captain Obvious" moment.
Of course homes with guns will have a higher incident of "death by family member." No different than owning a car increases the chances of death by auto crash, killed during a car jacking, your teen killing themselves or others joyriding, or choking on exhaust fumes many, many times over versus homes that only use public transportation.
If guns did not exist, would the rate of death by family member be lower? Or will the means of death simply shift to knives, poison and/or strangulation?
You can't shoot anyone without having a gun. That's the other way of stating that stat. Common sense.
To me, it's simple. Weigh the benefits against the costs and risks. Then, as with anything you bring into the house, assess the safety risks it might represent, and mitigate those risks.
Nobody should force you to own a gun, just like nobody should force you to not own one.
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I look at having an accessible gun like a condom. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. AVP film quote.
But maybe I'm just impacted more because in my younger days, there were many times I wish I had a condom and didn't have one.
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Cops in Hawaii are more dangerous than most of our criminals.
:grrr:
You only call 911 when you can't drive yourself in.
Hawaii government is Shiite.
Last person I would ask for help from is Hawaii government member.
Now all you Hawaii government employees think about that.
If Honolulu got nuked tomorrow, I'd have a party.
:thumbsup:
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Cops in Hawaii are more dangerous than most of our criminals.
:grrr:
You only call 911 when you can't drive yourself in.
Hawaii government is Shiite.
Last person I would ask for help from is Hawaii government member.
Now all you Hawaii government employees think about that.
If Honolulu got nuked tomorrow, I'd have a party.
:thumbsup:
you're not a nice person
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you're not a nice person
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nice
No I am not.
I'll fight with anybody.
:crazy:
Nice people almost always lose.
That is why Hawaii is so weak.
Determined people with good morals
mostly win. God is my leader.
Who is yours? Democrats?
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nice
No I am not.
I'll fight with anybody.
:crazy:
Nice people almost always lose.
That is why Hawaii is so weak.
Determined people with good morals
mostly win. God is my leader.
Who is yours? Democrats?
I don't consider people who run away fighters.
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run away part time...
I don't consider people who run away fighters.
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If Honolulu got nuked tomorrow, I'd have a party.
:thumbsup:
You have good morals? Is that what you claim? I think not.
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If Honolulu got nuked tomorrow, I'd have a party.
:thumbsup:
Would u still visit this forum?
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Hi Flapp
I didn’t really research that statistic that if a readily available firearm is kept in a home that someone was twice as likely to be killed by a family member
I should look it up.
I just recall that a large portion of murders are friend/family (someone you know) vs a stranger…..so when I ran across that stat where your twice as likely to die if
you keep a gun in a home, it sort of made sense to me as someone in your home now has the means to take you out in a heat of the moment kind of thing…..and size difference isn’t as much as a factor.
If no firearm, they can still grab a hammer or a knife…but not as effective
Those people that died in my small town, I think one guy might not have killed the 2 okole neighbors and committed suicide if it took a few more minutes to unlock his safe, retrieve shotgun and load it….in those few minutes he might have calmed down enough to realize it was not worth it. He was a really nice guy but I guess if people act like okoles to him, it flipped a switch
I was shocked when I heard about it. I think that may also be a partial reason why I don’t want a readily accessible firearm. He was a nice guy who seemed pretty grounded. Killed two okole neighbors and himself.
I think a lot of us worry about defending ourselves from criminals. I tend to think its the law abiding citizen and/or his family doing something they regret in the heat of the moment that is a bigger threat.
Bigger factors to staying safe are avoiding
- stupid people
- stupid things (alcohol/drug)
- stupid places
- staying out at stupid time
I looked up dying from lightning, it is about 1/million per
year…..dying by a criminal on Oahu via a home invasion is like 2/million per year
(Yes, Oahu doesn’t have as much lightning as the mainland)
Yes, odds means nothing when someone is trying to kick in your door and you only have pepper spray and a machete
Yes, the odds of a family member killing you can be reduced by putting in certain safety measures
I just feel there are other things that have a higher chance of killing me so I would rather address those things
For the felon…instead of using a stolen firearm:
Airgun:
I was looking up semi auto airguns, I saw a 10rd semi auto that shoot 80gr pellets at 830fps.
Paintball:
There are 0.68 154gr steel core with a rubber jacket paintballs….less lethal. A metal BB is like 5gr. I Think a paintball gun could be modified to run it close to 300fps
A paintball gun with a full 20oz tank of liquid co2 should be able to fire a 400 rounds
People shoot a paintball gun about 5rds/second. 15 steel balls in 3 seconds at 15feet at their face and neck is going to hurt a lot. If they are on drugs they might not feel it…..but I feel there is a good change it will break the bones in his face and possibly his skull.
There are YT videos showing 68 caliber pistol shooting a ballistic gel skull. Most pb guns use a 10” or longer barrel and should do more damage
I own an automag paintball gun that can shoot full auto…so it could possibly shoot like 8balls/sec….24 154gr steel balls in 3 seconds. It can empty the 200 rd hopper in about 24 seconds and I can reload with another 200rds while holding the trigger down. So about 400 steel core balls in about a minute
The paintball is almost 4x heavier than a 22lr but going 4x slower. I’m guessing energy is about the same as a 22lr. 154gr ball or 22lr to the body might be tolerable….but at 15-20 if defender has the jump….head/face shots will be very painful, could ko, could be lethal.
Engagement distance is like 15-20 ft. If I start firing first at 15ft they won’t be able to aim shots at back at me without worrying about losing an eye or two… they will only be able to blind fire and I can run up and roll them from point blank and dump 200 steel encased balls on their heads, reloading another 200 balls while still firing
Plastic encased steel balls are called less lethal but I feel they are still pretty lethal at close range if firing hundreds of them at the heads of people
54gr liquid filled pball will leave welts, bruises, lumps on a head at close range. A 154gr steel core ball is likely going to break facial bones and the skull, could knock out people and possibly be lethal
Those are pretty tough people if they can deal with 400 steels balls and still want to continue going for that felon
That felon probably did something pretty bad/foolish if they want to kill him…..even if he made it thru that attack, they will go after him again in a situation that puts the odds in their favor
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For the law abiding people (not involved with drugs) attacked by a stranger at home….im guessing they were the lowest hanging fruit. No visible security cameras, no security alarm and/or signage, no dogs and easy to enter.
I heard that thieves check for unlocked doors
I’m assuming the stranger that attacked the homeowner had the intent of taking property…not attacking the owner
22lr is approx 131 ft-lbs, a 154gr steel core paintball is around the same, a punch is like 110 ft-lbs. All that energy on 3/4” circle
I’m thinking a decently fit guy could knock out a person with 3 flush punches. (No Mark Hunt and Rodtang aren’t human. Their heads are filled with concrete instead of a brain)
So I think a pball gun with 400rds of steel core balls at 15 -20 ft is pretty decent for home defense if you can’t legally own a firearm
Leave his bedroom door cracked open with a door chain in place and let them have it as they come down the hallway. Lock the door and reload lol
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Hi Flapp
[snip]
Reading through your very thorough, well thought out reply, i find one thing that jumps out at me.
It's common for anyone on either side if the discussion to focus more on one type of event versus the entire spectrum. Maybe they have experienced or see more reports of domestic violence in their circle of friends, coworkers, neighbors or houses than they do burglaries, home invasions, muggings, road rage attacks, hold-ups where you work, mentally ill becoming violent, and so on.
When I see the "twice as likely to die if you own a gun" stat, that's not being gathered in a vacuum where only domestic violence exists.
i accept that having a gun in the house increases the odds of it being used on a resident or someone else using theirs that they brought because you armed yourself, too.
Ask yourself how much interaction you have with people outside the home. With people visiting your home.
Then compare that to the number of hours you spend with your family and cohabitants at home. The more time you spend with people, the more likely you are to be caught in the wake of a mental breakdown, drug episode, or other incident that results in violence. like you said "places, times" have to be factored in.
What if the stats said you are more likely to be killed by any means by a relative under your one roof than any of your neighbors. Would you move out and live alone? Move in with a neighbor?
I distrust statistics that try to model causes of human behavior, because they never seem to do more than validate the agenda of the analysts.
One of the reasons alcohol was banned under prohibition was the argument that so many deaths were attributable to being drunk -- accidents, car wrecks, fights, robberies. all things most of us would not choose to do sober, but alcohol affects judgement. It's a common excuse; I never would have done it if I hadn't been so drunk.
You can choose to eliminate drugs and alcohol from your home and significantly reduce the risk of someone becoming violent. It follows that you can also keep a gun around in case someone not living with you gets intoxicated and decides to inflict harm on you and your family members.
I think you're on the right path. Don't let the stats make your decision. Decide whether you believe defending yourself and your family is as likely as someone using that firearm to harm themselves or others. If you can accept the results of your decision if you're wrong, then nobody should try to change your mind. Make your choice -- take your chances -- hope for the best.
I also want to point out one glaring fact: one decision is active, the other passive. Getting a gun, taking training, securing it, giving others access for emergencies, .... these are all active decisions. Those can be identified later as things you did that lead to a bad result should that occur.
On the other hand, choosing to avoid buying a firearm and all the things associated with it i mentioned above represent a passive solution -- i.e. doing nothing. But don't let that lull you into a false sense of blamelessness. You made a conscious decision to remain unprepared should you need a firearm. it's your decision to own.
Finally, there are the benefits we've not looked at, such as ensuring your family members have the familiarity with guns to be safe around them. How do you teach firearm safety without allowing spouses and children to handle and practice with one? You could rent one, but most people won't spend the time or money without seeing a need.
You can't pick and choose who your kids hang out with, nor who their friends hang out with. It's foreseeable that your kids will come across a firearm one day. Maybe just someone showing off their dad's pistol, or taking it camping to shoot at some trees. Those are not the situations i'd want my girls to be in learning about firearms their first time. Education is valuable. Firearms safety saves lives. You can't sanitize their world, but you can prepare them for the things that might require at least some safety training and familiarization.
Maybe an airsoft or pellet gun can suffice for training if the manual of arms and components are very similar to a real firearm. Just something else to think about.
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For the law abiding people (not involved with drugs) attacked by a stranger at home….im guessing they were the lowest hanging fruit. No visible security cameras, no security alarm and/or signage, no dogs and easy to enter.
I heard that thieves check for unlocked doors
I’m assuming the stranger that attacked the homeowner had the intent of taking property…not attacking the owner
You can make those assumptions about strangers, but there are also the people you know who can decide you have something they really want, and they are familiar enough with your home to think they can get in and out without setting off alarms or having their face recorded.
Had a coworker telling me about this homeless drug addict his mother-in-law was trying to get off her land. He was one of several homeless she hired to help with landscaping and such.
She even let him live in an inoperable RV on the property.
The guy became more and more problematic, confronting the daughter and son usually cursing and screaming over nothing, coming to the RV stoned and causing disruptions, and having the cops show up all the time from causing problems elsewhere then retreating to the RV.
She finally had it after months and had him evicted and arrested multiple times until they were finally able to have the RV towed away. she had to wait months for the area to be dry enough. All the rain at that time made the place a mud pit, so no trucks could get in or out without geting stuck themselves.
To make it worse, every time he was arrested for threatening and causing disturbances, the local church would put up money for bail and expenses to get him out -- enabling him as it were under the belief they were helping him.
So, after the RV was gone and he was no longer allowed on the property, my coworker and his wife were spending the night at her mothers when a loud noise came from the bedroom. They went in and found the man on top of the mother-in-law strangling her. Being outnumbered, he fled out the bedroom window with the cut screen he entered from.
He was arrested and charged with attempted murder, but I left the company before the trial. never found out what happened if anything.
Long story to illustrate the thing i've always said about my own, personal reason for having guns:
i don't own guns for the things i believe will happen. i have them for the things i can't possibly predict. I am my first responder.
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A wise man once advised me that "95% of the time is what you DON'T see coming that will kick your ass". If you could see, game plan, etc, you may be able to avoid, but that's only based on what you know or information available to you. What about the random in addition to calculated attacks, crime, etc?
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If no firearm, they can still grab a hammer or a knife…but not as effective
All depends. The Manoa chiropractor used a knife on his wife and kids.
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A wise man once advised me that "95% of the time is what you DON'T see coming that will kick your ass". If you could see, game plan, etc, you may be able to avoid, but that's only based on what you know or information available to you. What about the random in addition to calculated attacks, crime, etc?
The 1 thing training has taught me about the 5% is to solve the problem. The exercise in class doesn't stop just because of X or Y reason. Figure it out so you can finish the exercise. What I have seen many times in class, is a guys gun jams or a mag falls out and they stop. Solve the problem and continue on.
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Hi Flapp
Your right, there are risks to keeping a readily accessible firearm and risks to not keeping a readily accessible firearm. And you’re right about taking measures to mitigate the risks. Your right, statistics show that 2 to 1, if a person is murdered, it will be a friend/family….not a stranger.
My kids have some familiarity with firearms but they generally will only go if their friends, bf/hisband want to go. So I usually try to get their friends/bf/husband to come out and drag my kids with them.
While try again when my 2nd kid comes back for the holidays
Will try a little harder when the 2nd kid move back permanently
For me, I fear a readily accessible firearm puts my family at more risk of harming ourselves…or others outside our home. My biggest concern is that we are all human and could do something we regret in the heat of the moment….or have an accident.
My youngest is ok but he is still only 17. I think something like 1/2 of firearm deaths are suicide. 17yo boys don’t have a fully developed frontal lobe.
These concerns of us harming ourselves or others overrides concerns of harm to us by a home invasion…..when the odds for being murdered via a home invasion (2 in million Oahu) are about the same as getting hit by lightning (1 in million USA)
These thoughts are only for my situation based on stats and events that have happened to people I know. And may not apply to others as their situation and experiences may differ.
I feel the layers in place will have criminals go after lower hanging fruit and my pepper spray will dissuade most intruders lowering my risk enough to not take the risks associated with having a readily accessible firearm in the home.
CMO,
Knives and firearms are both tools but firearms are generally more effective…more so for smaller statute people. (Yes, knives in a surprise attack at short distances > than guns)
Off topic:
I only became a firearm owner after Katrina smashed Florida.
Natural disasters are another story. Maui sort of tells us how well prepared the various agencies and utilities are….even after a near disaster around 2018
I’ve heard from a friend who used to attend Oahu disaster meetings a few years ago that he was surprised at how unorganized the different parties were just about clearing the roads….a lot of places will be blocked by fallen poles and power lines….so the power company has to clear a path out of where they will stage before the storm to the various City, State, Federal, Military sites that will assist with debris removal
Hopefully since then they have figured out a joint staging location and other logistics that is away from the areas that have power lines
I’m thinking one of the more critical things is clearing the path to Sand Island and hoping the piers and cranes are still in working condition
After attending those meetings my friend bought a semi auto shotgun and became a prepper….felt it would be a circus if a hurricane hit Oahu
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Drck,
That sounds right….that something you’re not prepared for will kick your okole.
Idk if it’s possible to prepare for everything or if it is worth the time/money. I basically prepare for the more likely situations.
I make 6 decades soon and will likely be dead in my early 80’s. I’m only 5-6 but weigh 220 lbs
My weight is going to be the death of me. I probably have a better chance at winning a powerball than me being murdered before I die of a heart attack.
So I exercise 3x/week….and always take out my grandson on Sundays cause I don’t know when it will be my time
Right now I’m more concerned about setting up my last kid than about being killed by an intruder.
We’re all going to die and currently the odds on favorite for me is death via a heart attack.
I worry about the thing that is the most likely to kill me…..murder by intruder isn’t it….im more concerned about willpower and the necessary changes in lifestyle habits to reduce my weight
My time is coming so I’m more concerned about how to best transfer assets to the kids and put them in a position to thrive cause the cost of housing on Oahu is expensive
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No matter how secure you feel at home, you don't live your life behind those walls 24/7.
I spent 5 years in Oklahoma, and almost every night there was a report of murders and dead bodies discovered.
There was more than one incident when an armed robbery occurred, and the employees were executed. one was Stockade Sirloin Steakhouse, and another was Wynn's IGA all night supermarket.
One Air Force sergeant was visiting a friend but never made it to her friend's apartment. In that apartment parking lot, she was abducted by a man and woman who were on a crime spree across the mainland. Her body was found dumped in an abandoned house.
Home invasions were normally burglaries that happened when they thought the residents were at work or school. Sometimes people takes a day off for a number of reasons and unfortunately become victims in their own homes.
Edmond, OK, was one of the first instances of someone 'going postal' and committing a mass workplace shooting. 14 victims and the shooter died, plus 8 injured. He used 2 .45ACP 1911s and 1 .22LR Remington MK II.
I bet at least one of the victims or family members wished they'd been armed.
My first supervisor at Tinker AFB said he took a firearm training class from the shooter, Pat Sherrill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_post_office_shooting
In TX, at a restaurant called Luby's, a nut job drove his truck into the restaurant and started killing customers and employees at random. Everyone was unarmed due to a recent law passed that required they leave their guns in the car.
You should listen to this story and put yourself in Suzanna Hupp's shoes.
https://youtu.be/PGPOYnvJjlY