2aHawaii

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: zippz on September 02, 2024, 03:02:15 PM

Title: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 02, 2024, 03:02:15 PM
This incident deserves it's own post.


Dispute between neighbors leaves 4 people dead, 2 critically hurt in Waianae Valley

Homicide Lieutenant Deena Thoemmes reported that the calls described a neighbor using a front loader—a type of heavy construction machinery—to ram multiple cars into the home.

“Multiple individuals were in the carport and fled or tried to flee when the suspect opened fire, striking the victims,” said Thoemmes during a press conference held on Sunday.

During the incident, a 42-year-old male resident of the home fatally shot the suspect, who was his neighbor.

https://www.khon2.com/local-news/dispute-between-neighbors-leaves-4-people-dead-2-critically-hurt-in-waianae-valley/
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 02, 2024, 03:12:25 PM
The resident of the house shooting in self-defense was released by HPD.  He has a clean record except for traffic violations and nothing showing he's a prohibited person.

The front loader driver Hiram Silva has a history of domestic abuse arrests and violating restraining orders.  Not sure if he was a prohibited person.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 02, 2024, 03:32:08 PM
The resident of the house shooting in self-defense was released by HPD.  He has a clean record except for traffic violations and nothing showing he's a prohibited person.

The front loader driver Hiram Silva has a history of domestic abuse arrests and violating restraining orders.  Not sure if he was a prohibited person.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/01/4-people-are-dead-following-apparent-shooting-west-oahu-police-sources/

Family members have identified the suspect as 58-year-old Hiram Silva. They described Silva as a “family man” and “loving father.”
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 02, 2024, 03:41:33 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/01/4-people-are-dead-following-apparent-shooting-west-oahu-police-sources/

Family members have identified the suspect as 58-year-old Hiram Silva. They described Silva as a “family man” and “loving father.”

They practice tough love in Waianae.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 02, 2024, 06:46:59 PM
Looking more like a legit and clear self-defense case.

The incident may have begun when people who were at a graduation party at the Silva property were burning rubber up the narrow driveway shared by multiple properties along Waianae Valley Road.

Members of the family holding their own gathering walked down to the Silva property to confront them.

“Hiram was really quiet guy and he always had ways of doing things, not Kosher or how you say it?” he said. “He would fire off his gun, get drunk fire off his gun but he’s never combat it and point it a people.”

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/03/family-complaint-may-have-provoked-waianae-shooting-that-ended-with-4-dead-2-injured/
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 02, 2024, 07:11:26 PM
Looking more like a legit and clear self-defense case.

The incident may have begun when people who were at a graduation party at the Silva property were burning rubber up the narrow driveway shared by multiple properties along Waianae Valley Road.

Members of the family holding their own gathering walked down to the Silva property to confront them.

“Hiram was really quiet guy and he always had ways of doing things, not Kosher or how you say it?” he said. “He would fire off his gun, get drunk fire off his gun but he’s never combat it and point it a people.”

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/03/family-complaint-may-have-provoked-waianae-shooting-that-ended-with-4-dead-2-injured/

The norm of "family man" is different on the west side and the definition of "combative" is different as well. Let me get this right: on the west side it is OK to fire your gun as long as it is not pointed at people and it is OK to destroy your neighbor's house with large machinery. The actions of a "family man" . The victim's family is now afraid of retribution from the SIlvas. What would the SIlvas do if this happened to them?
Like I said the community defines the culture. No amount of policing will help them.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 02, 2024, 08:08:38 PM
https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/loved-ones-grieve-those-they-lost-in-a-shooting-rampage-in-waianae/article_40c89f26-69b3-11ef-9bc4-ebedcd73f78e.html

“We're having a lot of these shootings go on, but there is no HPD presence." Ganaban added. "If you had this many homicides, a loader came into the property and is still on the property wouldn't you want to prevent something or at least be able to intervene quickly."

yeah, because deterring heavy equipment is part of LE SOP. They would do the same thing as the victim's family.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 02, 2024, 08:35:57 PM
Here we go again.


Self-defense claim allowed in Hawaii under special circumstances

https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/self-defense-claim-allowed-in-hawaii-under-special-circumstances/

HONOLULU (KHON2) — Details on Saturdayʻs shooting in Waianae are still under investigation but what would need to be done to prove the shooting was in self defense?

“In Hawaii, a person is allowed to use proportional amounts of force to defend themselves,” said Victor Bakke, defense attorney. “And what that means is that you cannot bring a gun to a knife fight, is the old saying.”
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 02, 2024, 09:21:02 PM
Someone comes at me with a knife I'm shooting him.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 02, 2024, 09:49:57 PM
Here we go again.


Self-defense claim allowed in Hawaii under special circumstances

https://www.khon2.com/top-stories/self-defense-claim-allowed-in-hawaii-under-special-circumstances/

HONOLULU (KHON2) — Details on Saturdayʻs shooting in Waianae are still under investigation but what would need to be done to prove the shooting was in self defense?

“In Hawaii, a person is allowed to use proportional amounts of force to defend themselves,” said Victor Bakke, defense attorney. “And what that means is that you cannot bring a gun to a knife fight, is the old saying.”

Bullcrap.  The state should have to show evidence that there was a motive other than self defense.  Short of that, there's no reason to have to defend a claim of self defense.  In court, you don't even have to offer a defense to charges if the prosecutor fails to establish a crime was committed.

The real rule is, you're allowed to use lethal force up to and including a firearm "if the actor believes that deadly force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, rape, or forcible sodomy."  Lethal force is not limited to firearms.  A knife is lethal force, too, so the "old saying" is just ignorant.  You are allowed to use the force you deem necessary to stop that threat.  I agree you don't pull a gun on someone wanting to start a fist fight, but any weapon in a hand -- ball bat, tire iron, heavy rock -- can be lethal.  People do die from fist fights, too, but those are much less likely.  However, if you're down and being relentlessly kicked, or you stop fighting and the other person is intent on causing you as much physical damage as they can, then you may have to escallate to lethal force to save your life regardless of any weapons in their hands.

Reasonable force, not proportional force.  Proportional force applies to law enforcement, not victims of violence.

HI law does require you to retreat if possible or surrender whatever the attacker is trying to take from you IF the attacker believes they have a lawful claim to the property -- i.e. you picked up an iPhone you tried to walk away with, and the owner is demanding it back.  Can't defend property with lethal force if you don't lawfully own it.

Laws are not based on "old sayings."  Victor Bakke needs to stick to the law.  But, I'm sure if he did, he'd have a hard time defending criminals who are totally guilty as charged.

This state sucks when it comes to the individual rights of the law abiding gun owners.

https://law.justia.com/codes/hawaii/title-37/chapter-703/section-703-304/
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 03, 2024, 06:30:39 AM
I'm hoping more information on the victims get reported.  Like who and what relation they have in all of this.

The family is afraid of retaliation from Silva's family.  Understandable.

Does Silva's family feel the same?  Retaliation goes both ways.  That guy trashed the house and probably killed family members.

Seems like this is not the end of things with these families.

Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: macsak on September 03, 2024, 07:28:04 AM
https://www.civilbeat.org/?p=1669197
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 03, 2024, 09:13:45 AM
https://www.civilbeat.org/?p=1669197

The only meaningful statement out of that whole article is when Tupola said quicker prosecutions of wrongdoers.

And I want to add meaningful incarceration.  Make it hurt so even the most stupid assh*le out there will get the message.

The rest of the rhetoric was beating a dead horse.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 03, 2024, 09:49:28 AM
The only meaningful statement out of that whole article is when Tupola said quicker prosecutions of wrongdoers.

And I want to add meaningful incarceration.  Make it hurt so even the most stupid assh*le out there will get the message.

The rest of the rhetoric was beating a dead horse.

Seems like the people committing murder are not concerned with the legal/incarceration consequences.

HI is okay keeping repeat offenders of lesser crimes on the streets.  This state only appears to take notice after someone chooses to kill..  In many cases the subject   is resigned to stop breathing long before they can be arrested.  If the person who shot 3 women wasn't himself fatally shot, would he have tried to commit suicide on the scene?  suicide by COP?  Dying may have been his end game all along -- he just wanted to take others with him. 

More COPS patrolling the area and stricter gun laws will never prevent another incident like this.  Asking the government to do more to stop these crimes is only a valid solution if you can put your finger on the real problem.  Too bad the people who hate guns will continue to use these tragedies to further an agenda instead of preventing them.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: drck1000 on September 03, 2024, 11:56:57 AM
https://www.civilbeat.org/?p=1669197

Quote
Security has long been a concern on the Leeward Side, and residents have felt neglected by city officials. Underscoring the frustration on both sides, Mayor Rick Blangiardi said during a May town hall in Waianae that there needs to be more oversight from community members too, referencing the police’s rampant vacancies and difficulty recruiting and retaining officers.

Why isn’t the community doing more? The police can’t do everything,” he said at the time.

Interesting take on the situation. . . "do more" you say? 
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 03, 2024, 12:32:54 PM
Interesting take on the situation. . . "do more" you say?

Help them, Rick. :grrr:
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 03, 2024, 12:41:50 PM
tjey need Jesus. more church less gyms
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 03, 2024, 08:10:08 PM
When does common sense cross the line?
The guy drove a loader onto a neighbor's property then shot and killed three people. The media are now questioning if it was self defense? 1+1=2?  I dunno. Maybe.  Idiot sheep

https://www.kitv.com/news/crime/what-is-considered-self-defense-and-what-isnt-in-hawaii/article_c0f7fef0-6a7e-11ef-a44c-d3c539cc90a7.html

The Waianae incident from Saturday night brought up an interesting argument about the man who some said acted in self-defense when he shot the suspect, but when does self-defense cross the line?

The man who shot and killed the man who went on the rampage was arrested on suspicion of murder. On Sunday, he was released pending investigation on Sunday night.

Hiram Silva went onto a neighboring property and destroyed a number of cars and then shot and killed three women and injured two others. He was then shot and killed by a neighbor. Some question if this falls under the category of self-defense.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 03, 2024, 08:19:29 PM
Logan said today regardless of the circumstances, you shoot someone you will be arrested.  So someone who shot a person to protect his life and his loved ones (and in this particular case, his property) he will be arrested and it is up to the prosecutors whether they have a case or not.

The guy has been released but still under investigation.

Yep, it does go against common sense but then again, we are in Hawaii.

Since when did common sense prevail over the weaponized Aloha Spirit.

Answer:  Never.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 03, 2024, 08:24:54 PM
Oh yeah, they mentioned HPD records show the guy who shot Silva had a handgun that was legally owned and registered.

Silva?  His handgun not so much. :rofl:

Yep.  Hawaii's leaders group law abiding legally acquired firearm owners together with da adda guys...... :crazy:

All firearms owners are criminals.  In their eyes anyway.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: rpoL98 on September 03, 2024, 10:22:14 PM
seems this all started with kids racing, or speeding down the residential street, something to do with a graduation party.  That's what triggered this event.  Cops should've stopped that, instead of concerned citizens putting themselves at risk.

did somebody call 911 on that?  on the kids speeding recklessly?  if so, I wonder what the dispatcher response was?  "I'm sorry but there's nothing we can do ...", and the rest is now history.

or nobody calls 911, because as we all know, by the time the cops get here, it's "all quiet on the western front", only crickets.

Guns aren't the problem here, it's their own kids (again) behaving irresponsibly.  a whole bunch of "dindu nuffins" of the local variety, "neva do nating"..  bad parenting?  lazy parenting, "kids will be kids"?  irresponsible parenting?  coupled with lack of respect for their neighbors.

cops can't be everywhere, but they sure-as-hell ought to be responding lickety-split to flash-in-the-pan community problems in an area known to be a tinder-box, BEFORE things get out of hand.  yeah, they're too busy.  "ain't nobody got time fo' dat."

as usual, the true instigators go unpunished, the true causes are blatantly and conveniently ignored, to suit a narrative.  After all, it is the democrat way.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 04, 2024, 06:00:37 AM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/04/man-arrested-deadly-waianae-shooting-believed-he-had-protect-his-home-family-attorney-says/

BLUF: Run, hide, call 911 but don't EVER LAWFULLY PROTECT YOUR FAMILY OR PROPERTY YOU WILL BE ARRESTED!
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 04, 2024, 06:43:20 AM
This is Hawaii.  We do things differently here.

 :D

 :crazy:

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 04, 2024, 06:48:29 AM
Seriously though, still trying to see if any information of the victims were released.

One victim was identified.

But who are they?  Family?  Friends?  Just Tenants?

The victim family is worried about "retaliation."

I think the Silva family should be too.  Can they be sued?
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 04, 2024, 07:17:10 AM
seems this all started with kids racing, or speeding down the residential street, something to do with a graduation party.  That's what triggered this event.  Cops should've stopped that, instead of concerned citizens putting themselves at risk.

did somebody call 911 on that?  on the kids speeding recklessly?  if so, I wonder what the dispatcher response was?  "I'm sorry but there's nothing we can do ...", and the rest is now history.

or nobody calls 911, because as we all know, by the time the cops get here, it's "all quiet on the western front", only crickets.

Guns aren't the problem here, it's their own kids (again) behaving irresponsibly.  a whole bunch of "dindu nuffins" of the local variety, "neva do nating"..  bad parenting?  lazy parenting, "kids will be kids"?  irresponsible parenting?  coupled with lack of respect for their neighbors.

cops can't be everywhere, but they sure-as-hell ought to be responding lickety-split to flash-in-the-pan community problems in an area known to be a tinder-box, BEFORE things get out of hand.  yeah, they're too busy.  "ain't nobody got time fo' dat."

as usual, the true instigators go unpunished, the true causes are blatantly and conveniently ignored, to suit a narrative.  After all, it is the democrat way.

Agree with you.  This incident stems from a lack of consideration and respect for other people.  Simple as that.

I also think guns were not the problem.  But Hawaii doesn't see that.  We can bet that guns will be front and center as to why this problem occurred.  Which is false.

To me, guns were the solution.  A person used his legally obtained firearm to protect life and property.  From a person who was intent on harming people and another's property.  With firearms that were not registered or obtained legally.

The 42 year old who shot Silva had a clean record accept for some traffic violations.    Yet HPD arrested him, charged him with 2nd degree murder and held him overnight in jail.

I guess the only other way he could have avoided that is:

Hello, 911?  Please send an officer to my residence.  You see, this guy is trashing my residence and cars with a huge front loader while shooting my family and guests.  Oops, he shot one.  Please hurry.  Oh no, there goes another one.  Can you hurry please?  thank you.  Aloha.

I don't mean to make fun of this tragic incident but wanted to show how ridiculous the expectations of what Hawaii wants us to do in situations like these.  Act like sheep?

Logan at the press conference declaring that Hawaii is not a STAND YOUR GROUND state and if you shoot someone, regardless of the circumstances, you will be arrested.  What happens after will be at the discretion of the prosecutor.

Very disturbing.



Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 04, 2024, 07:35:51 AM
Honk you fakaz
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/04/stop-violence-keiki-west-oahu-are-calling-an-end-deadly-incidents-their-hometown/

(https://gray-khnl-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/v2/M7NSBQHQONEOJGN4LBVNFT6YZQ.png?auth=d81502dfa0dd1821135c198c4d2d4731471c31289d4c1e3abc020836ef973501&width=1600&height=900&smart=true)

If I was the principal I would be ashamed....
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 04, 2024, 07:40:53 AM
Logan at the press conference declaring that Hawaii is not a STAND YOUR GROUND state and if you shoot someone, regardless of the circumstances, you will be arrested if not a police officer.  What happens after will be at the discretion of the prosecutor.

fixed it for you.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Rocky on September 04, 2024, 08:55:34 AM
   This is not necessarily a "self defense", issue, but rather a "defense of others" issue.

    The perp already shot 6 people, 4 which were killed at the scene before being taken down by the home owner.
Did not the home owner stop the perp from killing more ?
 Should he not be hailed as a hero ?
 
   And by the way, why is the perp not considered a "mass shooter"    :wacko:
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 04, 2024, 09:16:09 AM
Gun control groups and politicians have been silent on this one.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 04, 2024, 09:42:40 AM
fixed it for you.

Yeah.  I was thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 04, 2024, 09:48:55 AM
Gun control groups and politicians have been silent on this one.

Let's hope it stays that way.  I don't see how the 42 year old can be crucified on this.

But I'll be willing to bet they were trying.  And I bet they are still trying because they are unwilling to admit that a firearm was used in a good way to stop further killings.

One of the commenters on YouTube recommended that HPD beef up their clerks in the firearms division because more people will be acquiring firearms.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: macsak on September 04, 2024, 10:38:27 AM
i heard a rumor his morning that the silva guy recently had a really bad medical diagnosis
no excuse for what he did though....
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 04, 2024, 11:42:41 AM
i heard a rumor his morning that the silva guy recently had a really bad medical diagnosis
no excuse for what he did though....

I'm not a mental health specialist, but whether or not that rumor is true, it demonstrates an important point.

No matter how many background checks, mental health evaluations, invasive medial records checks or in-person psychological evaluations the state mandates, it's never going to solve the problem.

Someone can pass the tests 100%, then suffer a head injury, traumatic event such as bad breakup, divorce, death of a relative/s or especially a child, develop an addiction to prescription or illegal drugs, fall in with some bad "element", become addicted to gambling, lose their job and house, receive a devastating medical diagnosis, etc, etc. 

These events can cause someone to 'snap', and there is no way to prevent it.  Sometimes is a compilation of events over time until the weight of it becomes overwhelming.

The same things that cause suicides can also cause a 'need' to harm others as well.  Sometimes it's a means to an end if they are unable to kill themselves.  They commit crimes in the hopes someone else will end them.

Trying to isolate, identify and "society-proof" people with these problems is an impossible task.  That's why the mentally ill were institutionalized for decades until the 1980s.  Now it's a question of who pays for the institutions and whether the mentally ill have the same rights as the rest.

I guess the gun grabbers never saw the movie The Village.  No matter how hard you try to control the population, it's just not possible.  Human behavior is going to always include violence because of mental illness or a lack of moral/social conscience.  There's no way around it.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: oldfart on September 04, 2024, 12:10:38 PM
This case reminds me of the berserk business owner who used a jeep to run over sea birds a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: randay on September 04, 2024, 12:50:32 PM
4 people died in what basically amounts to road rage. Senseless deaths in my opinion.

On a related note, the willingness of people to comment and speculate on tragedies in a way that compliments their own narratives is disgusting.

Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: 45Lima on September 04, 2024, 04:50:31 PM
i heard a rumor his morning that the silva guy recently had a really bad medical diagnosis
no excuse for what he did though....

Someone shot his dog.

RIP Hiram✌🏼
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: KJCole on September 04, 2024, 05:13:58 PM
We need Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Q on September 04, 2024, 07:11:06 PM
Someone shot his dog.

RIP Hiram✌🏼

Could you go into more detail?

It's hard getting info on both sides of the story
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: dafrtknocker on September 04, 2024, 07:44:04 PM
Honolulu: Man Stops and Kills Mass Shooter, and Is Promptly Arrested...for Murder

https://redstate.com/jimthompson/2024/09/04/honolulu-man-stops-and-kills-mass-murderer-and-is-promptly-arrested-for-murder-n2178905
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: rpoL98 on September 04, 2024, 07:59:12 PM
is it the law, that if somebody is shot or "made dead", that the person allegedly the shooter, must be arrested and booked on murder charges?  Is this one of those Karl Rhoads things?  lawfare?
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 04, 2024, 08:59:38 PM
is it the law, that if somebody is shot or "made dead", that the person allegedly the shooter, must be arrested and booked on murder charges?  Is this one of those Karl Rhoads things?  lawfare?

It's more of a policy than a law.

Every police chief since I've been living here has come out as the most anti-gun people you could ever imagine.  in their minds, anyone who shoots someone and doesn't have a badge is a criminal -- period.

Case in point is former Chief Ballard:
Quote
"Whether you're in the right or you're wrong, you're still going to have to go
through the legal system, you're going to have to go through all this," Ballard
said. "It's going to be a toll on your family, it's going to be a financial toll. Is it
worth it?"
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=35916.msg318269#msg318269
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: RSN172 on September 04, 2024, 09:31:35 PM
Looks like if someone came to my home and started shooting at me or my family, I am going to be arrested.

No sense calling 911.  Average response time to where I live in Puna is 30-45 minutes.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 06, 2024, 02:05:07 PM
not enough honking
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/06/attempted-murder-under-investigation-makaka/

HPD has launched two attempted murder investigations in West Oahu within the last 24 hours — both scenes just mere miles from each other.

The latest incident happened around 2 a.m. near the north end of Maili Beach Park.

EMS said the 41-year-old man suffered an apparent gunshot wound to the middle of his body.

According to HPD, the victim was shot multiple times and was rushed to a nearby hospital in serious condition.

The suspect fled the scene and remains at large, authorities said.

The investigation is currently underway.

Meanwhile, the second attempted murder case happened hours earlier, around 6 p.m. Thursday.

Officers responded to the Makaha Gateway Shopping Center off Farrington Highway initially for an aggravated assault.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 06, 2024, 02:47:00 PM
Chief Ballard was saying be like sheep.  Because LE and Hawaii's justice system is hell bent on definitely making it not worth it.

They want all of us to be sheep.

Not sheepdogs.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 06, 2024, 02:48:05 PM
not enough honking
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/06/attempted-murder-under-investigation-makaka/

HPD has launched two attempted murder investigations in West Oahu within the last 24 hours — both scenes just mere miles from each other.

The latest incident happened around 2 a.m. near the north end of Maili Beach Park.

EMS said the 41-year-old man suffered an apparent gunshot wound to the middle of his body.

According to HPD, the victim was shot multiple times and was rushed to a nearby hospital in serious condition.

The suspect fled the scene and remains at large, authorities said.

The investigation is currently underway.

Meanwhile, the second attempted murder case happened hours earlier, around 6 p.m. Thursday.

Officers responded to the Makaha Gateway Shopping Center off Farrington Highway initially for an aggravated assault.


West Side going for one medal or what??!!
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 07, 2024, 02:14:25 PM
MOAR honking needed!

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/09/07/woman-29-treated-multiple-injuries-after-apparent-assault-maili/
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 07, 2024, 10:02:48 PM
They have a different take on the shooting.  I guess it's true from a certain point of view.

(https://i.imgur.com/Wo8O4ws.jpeg)

https://www.timesnownews.com/world/us/us-news/oahu-hawaii-murder-suicide-6-people-shot-at-home-in-waianae-article-112974057
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: oldfart on September 08, 2024, 04:50:14 AM
I actually looked at the "TimesNowNews" link above.  :rofl:
Who or what is "TimesNowNews"???
It's just a "content-driven" word scramble with spelling and grammatical errors.
Here is the bio of the author....he watches true crime documentaries and reads mystery books.  :rofl:
I got stuff in my refrigerator with more journalistic experience than the author.
=================
Arkaprovo Roy is a content writer and editor with over 4 years of experience in content-driven jobs. He has worked with multiple reputed companies like Radio Mirchi, Sportskeeda and Times Now and held various designations. Arkaprovo is interested in researching uncommon topics, ready mystery-thrillers, composing music and watching true crime documentaries.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 08, 2024, 11:42:37 AM
Looks like a website for leftwing journalists and social media to reference from a left wing slant.  It took MDA almost a week to report the incident and looks like they were waiting for article that doesn't say good guy with a gun stopped it.  If someone calls them out for misinformation, then MDA can blame the article for being wrong.


I actually looked at the "TimesNowNews" link above.  :rofl:
Who or what is "TimesNowNews"???
It's just a "content-driven" word scramble with spelling and grammatical errors.
Here is the bio of the author....he watches true crime documentaries and reads mystery books.  :rofl:
I got stuff in my refrigerator with more journalistic experience than the author.
=================
Arkaprovo Roy is a content writer and editor with over 4 years of experience in content-driven jobs. He has worked with multiple reputed companies like Radio Mirchi, Sportskeeda and Times Now and held various designations. Arkaprovo is interested in researching uncommon topics, ready mystery-thrillers, composing music and watching true crime documentaries.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 08, 2024, 12:19:47 PM
They shouldn't group this self-defense incident with the other violent gun crimes.

But they will.

To them, even buying and owning a firearm legally is a crime.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 08, 2024, 01:00:27 PM
They shouldn't group this self-defense incident with the other violent gun crimes.

But they will.

To them, even buying and owning a firearm legally is a crime.

Wouldn't this belong with other firearm-related murders as well as "good guy with a gun"?

Seems like it started as a mass murder but was ended as a DUG.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: RSN172 on September 10, 2024, 05:56:58 AM
West Side going for one medal or what??!!

They trying to take the title of Wild Wild West from Puna.

They are now what I consider a serious contender.

Couple more incidents and I would declare West Oahu the winner.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: oldfart on September 10, 2024, 07:50:16 AM
Wouldn't this belong with other firearm-related murders as well as "good guy with a gun"?

Seems like it started as a mass murder but was ended as a DUG.
....
What is dug supposed to mean?
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 10, 2024, 10:31:39 AM
....
What is dug supposed to mean?

FBI original term DUG: Defensive Use of Gun

CDC term DGU:  Defensive Gun Use

It looks like DGU is now the standard term for self-defense using a gun.

Either way ... same-same.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Begle1 on September 11, 2024, 03:25:55 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/dgu/
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 19, 2024, 08:23:32 AM
WTF Issues?  I read this as they wanted to prosecute him but were disappointed they can't


Shooter who ended Waianae rampage won’t be charged

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2024/09/19/hawaii-news/shooter-who-ended-waianae-rampage-wont-be-charged/

“This case was conferred with the Department of the Prosecuting Attorney and on Wednesday, September 18, 2024, it was declined due to issues related to self-defense and defense of others,” read an update to a Honolulu Police Department highlight.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 19, 2024, 08:34:35 AM
WTF Issues?  I read this as they wanted to prosecute him but were disappointed they can't


Shooter who ended Waianae rampage won’t be charged

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2024/09/19/hawaii-news/shooter-who-ended-waianae-rampage-wont-be-charged/

“This case was conferred with the Department of the Prosecuting Attorney and on Wednesday, September 18, 2024, it was declined due to issues related to self-defense and defense of others,” read an update to a Honolulu Police Department highlight.

The "issue" is that he used lawful self defense.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 19, 2024, 09:23:19 AM
They tried and now they mad because they cannot charge the man for anything.  Dey piss off.

Issues?  I think Hawaii's leadership has the serious issues.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 19, 2024, 11:55:40 AM
WTF Issues?  I read this as they wanted to prosecute him but were disappointed they can't


Shooter who ended Waianae rampage won’t be charged

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2024/09/19/hawaii-news/shooter-who-ended-waianae-rampage-wont-be-charged/

“This case was conferred with the Department of the Prosecuting Attorney and on Wednesday, September 18, 2024, it was declined due to issues related to self-defense and defense of others,” read an update to a Honolulu Police Department highlight.

What made you think they were disappointed? Is it something other than the quoted section? (I don't have a subscription to the webpage.)

When I read the quoted sentence I don't get any impression of disappointment. The language used is pretty neutral.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 19, 2024, 12:56:31 PM
What made you think they were disappointed? Is it something other than the quoted section? (I don't have a subscription to the webpage.)

When I read the quoted sentence I don't get any impression of disappointment. The language used is pretty neutral.


Swooossshhh and not even in a funny way.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 19, 2024, 02:18:57 PM

Swooossshhh and not even in a funny way.

Can't answer the question I see so you have to insult me instead to cover. Why not just avoid answering.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 19, 2024, 06:49:24 PM
What made you think they were disappointed? Is it something other than the quoted section? (I don't have a subscription to the webpage.)

When I read the quoted sentence I don't get any impression of disappointment. The language used is pretty neutral.


When you have an issue with something, that means a roadblock or problem doing something.

What I get from the article is the goal is to prosecute the guy for murder, but the "issue" of self defense is preventing them from doing it.

Self defense in the incident should be promoted for stopping a bad incident from getting worse
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: rpoL98 on September 19, 2024, 06:52:29 PM
they'll be asking Karl Rhoads to help resolve this "issue", so it doesn't interfere with the prosecution in the future.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: dafrtknocker on September 19, 2024, 07:32:06 PM
Free Version.

https://news.yahoo.com/news/shooter-ended-waianae-rampage-won-160300775.html
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 20, 2024, 06:22:43 AM
What made you think they were disappointed? Is it something other than the quoted section? (I don't have a subscription to the webpage.)

When I read the quoted sentence I don't get any impression of disappointment. The language used is pretty neutral.

I'll give you an example.  I have to decline going to the bar with you guys tonight due to issues of having to celebrate my son's 1st birthday.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 20, 2024, 08:15:31 AM
Can't answer the question I see so you have to insult me instead to cover. Why not just avoid answering.

SWWOOOOOSSSHHHH again.  1 reason why I reply in this manner when the answer is obvious.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 20, 2024, 08:40:24 AM
All you gotta remember is what Chief Ballard said, "Is it worth it?"  She's saying they will do everything and anything to make people think and feel it's "not worth it".

Of course she's no longer Chief but Logan was selected and conforms to the same mold.

I never thought that even in your own home you cannot stand your ground when your loved ones is being shot at and a front loader is destroying your property.

I never thought that even an anti-gun state like Hawaii would be this biased toward the right to protect yourself and loved ones.  In your own home.  smh.

But now we know.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: zippz on September 25, 2024, 11:43:00 AM
More tidbits on the shooting.

Silva had a unregistered AK47 and verbally threatened to kill them all.  I heard that Silva was shot in the back while walking away, I presume with the rifle in hand.  Silva's statement would lead me to believe the threat wasn't over and helping to justify the self-defense shooting.  An 8 round clip in a 9mm Glock leads me to believe it was a Glock 43 with a extended 7 round magazine.  I have that gun, and it's difficult to shoot accurately so I can see why he missed.  A small gun better suited for CCW than for home defense and not something Id feel confident using against an AK47.  Reminder to keep spare mags with you.


Waianae man who killed charging neighbor: ‘I going stop him’
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2024/09/25/hawaii-news/man-who-killed-charging-neighbor-i-going-stop-him/

"Silva was driving a front-end loader stacked with fuel drums and was armed with an unlicensed AK-47 assault rifle and handgun."

"“I thought he was done. Then he started going again, so I ran upstairs to grab my gun,” Keamo-Carnate said, noting the registered firearm was a 9 mm Glock handgun."

"“He (Silva) was saying, ‘They like come to my house. They think I playing. I going kill ’em all,’” said Rishard Keamo-Carnate"

"Keamo-Carnate emptied his eight-round clip and went back upstairs to grab more ammunition and turn off the lights in the home to make it harder for Silva to identify targets. After reloading, Keamo-­Carnate saw Silva and opened fire a second time. Silva died of a gunshot wound to his torso."
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 25, 2024, 11:55:16 AM
More tidbits on the shooting.

Silva had a unregistered AK47 and verbally threatened to kill them all.  I heard that Silva was shot in the back while walking away, I presume with the rifle in hand.  Silva's statement would lead me to believe the threat wasn't over and helping to justify the self-defense shooting.  An 8 round clip in a 9mm Glock leads me to believe it was a Glock 43 with a extended 7 round magazine.  I have that gun, and it's difficult to shoot accurately so I can see why he missed.  A small gun better suited for CCW than for home defense and not something Id feel confident using against an AK47.  Reminder to keep spare mags with you.


Waianae man who killed charging neighbor: ‘I going stop him’
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2024/09/25/hawaii-news/man-who-killed-charging-neighbor-i-going-stop-him/

"Silva was driving a front-end loader stacked with fuel drums and was armed with an unlicensed AK-47 assault rifle and handgun."

"“I thought he was done. Then he started going again, so I ran upstairs to grab my gun,” Keamo-Carnate said, noting the registered firearm was a 9 mm Glock handgun."

"“He (Silva) was saying, ‘They like come to my house. They think I playing. I going kill ’em all,’” said Rishard Keamo-Carnate"

"Keamo-Carnate emptied his eight-round clip and went back upstairs to grab more ammunition and turn off the lights in the home to make it harder for Silva to identify targets. After reloading, Keamo-­Carnate saw Silva and opened fire a second time. Silva died of a gunshot wound to his torso."

You have a Glock that uses clips? Must be collectors item
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 25, 2024, 11:56:16 AM
More tidbits on the shooting.

Silva had a unregistered AK47 and verbally threatened to kill them all.  I heard that Silva was shot in the back while walking away, I presume with the rifle in hand.  Silva's statement would lead me to believe the threat wasn't over and helping to justify the self-defense shooting.  An 8 round clip in a 9mm Glock leads me to believe it was a Glock 43 with a extended 7 round magazine.  I have that gun, and it's difficult to shoot accurately so I can see why he missed.  A small gun better suited for CCW than for home defense and not something Id feel confident using against an AK47.  Reminder to keep spare mags with you.
...

There is a Glock that uses a standard 8rd magazine, but not 9mm:

https://us.glock.com/en/Pistols/G38
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 25, 2024, 12:00:11 PM
There is a Glock that uses a standard 8rd magazine, but not 9mm:

https://us.glock.com/en/Pistols/G38

I think HIVE makes a +2 extention.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 25, 2024, 12:00:27 PM

When you have an issue with something, that means a roadblock or problem doing something.

What I get from the article is the goal is to prosecute the guy for murder, but the "issue" of self defense is preventing them from doing it.

Self defense in the incident should be promoted for stopping a bad incident from getting worse

Thank you for your explanation, I do not read that sentence in the same light though. To me I think it was a neutral way of saying that certain facts within the case would have made it difficult to impossible to prove that an unjustified killing took place without going into the details. I do not think the comment should be interpreted as them saying they wanted to prosecute but unfortunately facts got into the way.

I could just as easily use the word "issues" to describe not doing I didn't want to do as doing something I did want to do.
For example: "I was sentenced to go to prison but my attorney found issues in with the case and my conviction was overturned" or "I have to drink gross kale smoothies to be healthy but issues with the blender meant I didn't have to drink it today"
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 25, 2024, 12:01:05 PM
SWWOOOOOSSSHHHH again.  1 reason why I reply in this manner when the answer is obvious.

Sadly you have turned into a troll. You used to be better.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 25, 2024, 12:04:08 PM
So you are doubling down on your refusal... gotcha

Argumentative.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 25, 2024, 12:05:31 PM
Argumentative.

Wrong.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 25, 2024, 12:10:53 PM
Sadly you have turned into a troll. You used to be better.

Someone is mad at being swoooossshhhhhhed.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 25, 2024, 12:14:38 PM
you guys should race
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 25, 2024, 12:29:20 PM
you guys should race

too much cardio. How about boto measuring contest?
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 25, 2024, 02:14:51 PM
too much cardio. How about boto measuring contest?

Aren't you Asian?
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: oldfart on September 25, 2024, 02:31:02 PM
too much cardio. How about boto measuring contest?
....
I ready to judge :rofl:
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 25, 2024, 02:40:02 PM
....
I ready to judge :rofl:

Aisos.  Might need micrometer.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: surfmaster on September 25, 2024, 03:05:14 PM
More tidbits on the shooting.

Silva had a unregistered AK47 and verbally threatened to kill them all.  I heard that Silva was shot in the back while walking away, I presume with the rifle in hand.  Silva's statement would lead me to believe the threat wasn't over and helping to justify the self-defense shooting.  An 8 round clip in a 9mm Glock leads me to believe it was a Glock 43 with a extended 7 round magazine.  I have that gun, and it's difficult to shoot accurately so I can see why he missed.  A small gun better suited for CCW than for home defense and not something Id feel confident using against an AK47.  Reminder to keep spare mags with you.


Waianae man who killed charging neighbor: ‘I going stop him’
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2024/09/25/hawaii-news/man-who-killed-charging-neighbor-i-going-stop-him/

"Silva was driving a front-end loader stacked with fuel drums and was armed with an unlicensed AK-47 assault rifle and handgun."

"“I thought he was done. Then he started going again, so I ran upstairs to grab my gun,” Keamo-Carnate said, noting the registered firearm was a 9 mm Glock handgun."

"“He (Silva) was saying, ‘They like come to my house. They think I playing. I going kill ’em all,’” said Rishard Keamo-Carnate"

"Keamo-Carnate emptied his eight-round clip and went back upstairs to grab more ammunition and turn off the lights in the home to make it harder for Silva to identify targets. After reloading, Keamo-­Carnate saw Silva and opened fire a second time. Silva died of a gunshot wound to his torso."

This self-defense incident highlights why 10 rounds may not be enough to stop a threat. Even people who feel they can handle whatever is thrown at them can run out of ammo during a gunfight, and that's what happened to Mr. Keamo-Carnate. It's a good thing he was not pinned down and was able to run back into his home to pick up more ammo, otherwise he may have been shot as well.

It is possible his magazines only held 8 so he used what he had. If there wasn't the 10 round magazine capacity law, he could have legally purchased one that held more rounds. This would have put him in the better position of having more rounds in the fight, ending the threat sooner.

This incident shows more than just a clear-cut case of self-defense. It also supports how having 10 plus round magazines can save lives.
 
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: oldfart on September 25, 2024, 03:24:41 PM
Aisos.  Might need micrometer.
...
Yep...now I ready
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: oldfart on September 25, 2024, 03:31:19 PM
This self-defense incident highlights why 10 rounds may not be enough to stop a threat. Even people who feel they can handle whatever is thrown at them can run out of ammo during a gunfight, and that's what happened to Mr. Keamo-Carnate. It's a good thing he was not pinned down and was able to run back into his home to pick up more ammo,
This incident shows more than just a clear-cut case of self-defense. It also supports how having 10 plus round magazines can save lives.
....
I notice that large capacity mags also tend to become less reliable if a 10rnd block is installed.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 25, 2024, 03:40:08 PM
Aren't you Asian?

I get a 2 inch handicap.  Thanks for offering.
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 25, 2024, 03:43:20 PM
This self-defense incident highlights why 10 rounds may not be enough to stop a threat. Even people who feel they can handle whatever is thrown at them can run out of ammo during a gunfight, and that's what happened to Mr. Keamo-Carnate. It's a good thing he was not pinned down and was able to run back into his home to pick up more ammo, otherwise he may have been shot as well.

It is possible his magazines only held 8 so he used what he had. If there wasn't the 10 round magazine capacity law, he could have legally purchased one that held more rounds. This would have put him in the better position of having more rounds in the fight, ending the threat sooner.

This incident shows more than just a clear-cut case of self-defense. It also supports how having 10 plus round magazines can save lives.

They do make 10rders for the G43, if that's what he had. But they're often sold out. This is why I ruled the G43 out as my CCW gun. The G43X comes with 10rders from Glock.  I felt that owning a modern handgun that's not a revolver and it coming with a factory 6rd mag is a waste. There is no way to know whether he attempted to get these 10rd mags or not, unless someone knows him and ask.  Cause if he did have the HIVE +2 extentions, which are in stock more often, then that would explain things.

I wonder how many he shot after he reloaded. Cause if it was only 2 more rounds, then the anti gunners will say "see, 10rds is enough".
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: dafrtknocker on September 25, 2024, 04:58:14 PM
Free Version of Star story.

https://news.yahoo.com/news/waianae-man-killed-charging-neighbor-213300161.html
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 25, 2024, 05:11:44 PM
They do make 10rders for the G43, if that's what he had. But they're often sold out. This is why I ruled the G43 out as my CCW gun. The G43X comes with 10rders from Glock.  I felt that owning a modern handgun that's not a revolver and it coming with a factory 6rd mag is a waste. There is no way to know whether he attempted to get these 10rd mags or not, unless someone knows him and ask.  Cause if he did have the HIVE +2 extentions, which are in stock more often, then that would explain things.

I wonder how many he shot after he reloaded. Cause if it was only 2 more rounds, then the anti gunners will say "see, 10rds is enough".

The problem with that 'logic' is it flies in the face of their reason for limiting mag capacities.

Gun hater:  We need smaller capacity mags so criminals and mass shooters have to reload, giving someone enough time to stop them.

Same gun hater:  We don't see a problem with limiting magazine capacity.  If 10 rds isn't enough in a self defense situation, it doesn't take more than a second or two to reload another mag.

Totally conflicting rationales -- one saying limits will prevent continued firing for criminals, and one saying limits won't interfere with continued firing for crime victims.

I get that you were talking about the total rounds fired equaled the 10 rd mag limit, but that's just this one event, and it ignores that he would actually have 16rds between 2 mags, not 10. 

To argue that 8rds in 1 mag + 2rds in 1 mag = 1 x 10rd mag would suggest that 2 x 10rd mags = 1 x 20rd mag.  So, if I have 1 x 10rd mag, that's okay with them, but what if i have a spare 10rd mag?  Why is that not as illegal as a 20rd mag?

Another way to look at it is, if the legal limit was 8rds, and that's why he had 8rd mags, the 10rds he theoretically fired would negate the limit completely.  The bad guy didn't kill him between reloads, so the "vulnerable during reloads" argument would have been debunked here.

The whole mag limit debate is ridiculous.  No matter what they say about it, it's unrealistic and wrong.

Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 25, 2024, 08:36:07 PM
The problem with that 'logic' is it flies in the face of their reason for limiting mag capacities.

Gun hater:  We need smaller capacity mags so criminals and mass shooters have to reload, giving someone enough time to stop them.

Same gun hater:  We don't see a problem with limiting magazine capacity.  If 10 rds isn't enough in a self defense situation, it doesn't take more than a second or two to reload another mag.

Totally conflicting rationales -- one saying limits will prevent continued firing for criminals, and one saying limits won't interfere with continued firing for crime victims.

I get that you were talking about the total rounds fired equaled the 10 rd mag limit, but that's just this one event, and it ignores that he would actually have 16rds between 2 mags, not 10. 

To argue that 8rds in 1 mag + 2rds in 1 mag = 1 x 10rd mag would suggest that 2 x 10rd mags = 1 x 20rd mag.  So, if I have 1 x 10rd mag, that's okay with them, but what if i have a spare 10rd mag?  Why is that not as illegal as a 20rd mag?

Another way to look at it is, if the legal limit was 8rds, and that's why he had 8rd mags, the 10rds he theoretically fired would negate the limit completely.  The bad guy didn't kill him between reloads, so the "vulnerable during reloads" argument would have been debunked here.

The whole mag limit debate is ridiculous.  No matter what they say about it, it's unrealistic and wrong.

Typical liberal gun owner speak. The same ones that are color blind to yellow
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: ren on September 26, 2024, 07:20:51 AM
the answer is more money

https://www.khon2.com/local-news/west-oahus-public-health-crisis-sustained-violence/

“This is very personal for me,” said Alicia Higa, WCCHC chief health equity officer, “I was born and raised on this coast and what has unfolded in our community has broken my heart.”

“Treat this as a crisis, not as the new normal or this is just a one off. This is sustained violence,” said WCCHC executive vice president Nicholas Hughey. “That, in essence, makes it a crisis and when we’re in a crisis, then all the conventional sort of approach ahs to go out and we have to approach it as a crisis.”

WCCHC put forth a roadmap with a focus on mental health trauma and resilience counseling training and requested $500,000 from the City and State to support the initiative.


a "health equity officer" ? they have lots of money to hire all these positions...a nurse would be mo bettah
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 26, 2024, 08:04:35 AM
the answer is more money

https://www.khon2.com/local-news/west-oahus-public-health-crisis-sustained-violence/

“This is very personal for me,” said Alicia Higa, WCCHC chief health equity officer, “I was born and raised on this coast and what has unfolded in our community has broken my heart.”

“Treat this as a crisis, not as the new normal or this is just a one off. This is sustained violence,” said WCCHC executive vice president Nicholas Hughey. “That, in essence, makes it a crisis and when we’re in a crisis, then all the conventional sort of approach ahs to go out and we have to approach it as a crisis.”

WCCHC put forth a roadmap with a focus on mental health trauma and resilience counseling training and requested $500,000 from the City and State to support the initiative.


a "health equity officer" ? they have lots of money to hire all these positions...a nurse would be mo bettah



I looked up what health equity officer means.  To me, the explanation was like a word salad from kamala.

It also explained what equity is compared to equality.  I understand it but can see where it can be exploited and misused by people with an agenda or sense of entitlement.



Yeah, at least we all know what a nurse is and does.

Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 26, 2024, 11:45:37 AM
too much cardio. How about boto measuring contest?

I down for a video game race. Original Mario Kart?
Title: Re: Waianae shooting and loader incident 4 dead Aug 30 2024
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 26, 2024, 11:46:19 AM
...
Yep...now I ready

You got a permit for that assault micrometer?