2aHawaii

General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: Flapp_Jackson on November 07, 2024, 04:02:43 PM

Title: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 07, 2024, 04:02:43 PM
Biden was a major factor in Putin attacking Ukraine.  The timing says it all -- right after the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle.

Donald Trump ‘acted like a man’, says Putin

https://youtu.be/d4xTktY-lrw
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 07, 2024, 04:08:07 PM
And Hamas is calling for a cease fire 1 day into Trumps win.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Jaco808 on November 07, 2024, 09:31:41 PM
What a joke.   Putin has no respect for Trump other than a free puppet.   
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 07, 2024, 10:28:30 PM
What a joke.   Putin has no respect for Trump other than a free puppet.

And you know this how?  Been keeping up with your Russian Pravda subscriptions?

I bet you did't bother to watch the video, huh?
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 08, 2024, 06:29:57 AM
And you know this how?  Been keeping up with your Russian Pravda subscriptions?

I bet you did't bother to watch the video, huh?

My bet also.  He didn't watch the video.

I just hope WW3 is averted now that a true leader is in charge.  Peace through strength.  Not cognitive decline.  That never works.  Nor word salad.  That's worse.  Guarantee WW3.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 08, 2024, 08:02:49 AM
The only reason for Putin to have any hope for Trump is the fact that he is not controlled by the Power Okole who is still hell bent on destroying and/or Balkanizing Russia and that Trump can assist in negotiations in ending the Ukrainian War realizing the strategic goals of Russia that have already been gained.

If Trump thinks he can end the war favorable to US imperial interests that is not going to happen since it is a fact that the US empire and its NATO vassal states have been and currently still in an unofficial war with Russia and, barring direct military involvement which will lead to WWIII, are facing impending defeat.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 08, 2024, 08:21:26 AM
The only reason for Putin to have any hope for Trump is the fact that he is not controlled by the Power Okole who is still hell bent on destroying and/or Balkanizing Russia and that Trump can assist in negotiations in ending the Ukrainian War realizing the strategic goals of Russia that have already been gained.


Waht was Russias strategic goals? Wasn't it to take over Ukraine, which they haven't done yet?
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: drck1000 on November 08, 2024, 09:01:15 AM
I thought we were past all the word salads. . .  ::)
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 08, 2024, 11:54:37 AM
Waht was Russias strategic goals? Wasn't it to take over Ukraine, which they haven't done yet?
Whether interpreting Russia's goals from a US imperial or Russian perspective, it can fall in the following areas:

1.  Preventing further military encroachment of the US empire and its vassal European military alliance NATO to Russia's borders.
2.  De-Nazification of Ukraine's central government that has historically terrorized the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.
3.  Acknowledgment of Crimea and now the other ethnic Russian territories under Russian control as being part of the Russian Federation.

Unlike the US empire's illegal annexation and ongoing illegal occupation of Hawaii, it was never Russia's strategic goal to conquer Ukraine and annex it to the Russian Federation.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 08, 2024, 12:10:35 PM
Whether interpreting Russia's goals from a US imperial or Russian perspective, it can fall in the following areas:

1.  Preventing further military encroachment of the US empire and its vassal European military alliance NATO to Russia's borders.
2.  De-Nazification of Ukraine's central government that has historically terrorized the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.
3.  Acknowledgment of Crimea and now the other ethnic Russian territories under Russian control as being part of the Russian Federation.

Unlike the US empire's illegal annexation and ongoing illegal occupation of Hawaii, it was never Russia's strategic goal to conquer Ukraine and annex it to the Russian Federation.

Are you assuming this or did Russia state the above?  I would like to know what Russia's goals are from their statement.  Im sure Putin mentioned why he invaded Ukraine.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 08, 2024, 12:46:13 PM
Are you assuming this or did Russia state the above?  I would like to know what Russia's goals are from their statement.  Im sure Putin mentioned why he invaded Ukraine.

NATO was founded in 1949.  The founding members were:
Belgium
Canada
Denmark
France
Iceland
Italy
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
Portugal
United Kingdom
United States

The purpose as stated in the NATO charter reads:
Quote
The Parties to this Treaty reaffirm their faith in the purposes and principles of the
Charter of the United Nations and their desire to live in peace with all peoples and
all governments.

They are determined to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilisation
of their peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the
rule of law. They seek to promote stability and well-being in the North Atlantic area.

They are resolved to unite their efforts for collective defence and for the preservation
of peace and security.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm

The Articles of the Charter spell out rules to handle international disputes peacefully rather than use of force, promote stability among themselves and other nations, eliminate conflict, maintain collectively and individually the means to resist armed attack, consult member nations when their security is threatened, and to consider an attack upon any of the members to be an attack upon all the members.

There are other articles and goals, but this pretty much covers the higher level ones.

During the Cold War, NATO expanded to include:
1952 - Greece, Turkey
1955 - West Germany
1982 - Spain

After the Cold War, NATO added:
1990 - Germany (Germany was reunified in 1990;  East Germany was added to West Germany, and the 2 became "Germany")
1999 - Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland
2004 - Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia
2009 - Albania, Croatia
2017 - Montenegro
2020 - North Macedonia
2023 - Finland
2024 - Sweden

Russia's #1 issue even before invading Ukraine was NATO expansion into even more countries.  Russia demanded that NATO "lines" return to 1997 definitions, which as you can see would eliminate 13 members if that demand was granted.

Ukraine began requesting admittance into the UN about the time that Biden became Resident.  If you recall, he and his son, Hunter, were very cozy with Ukraine -- to the point that Trump was impeached the second he tried to dig into just how cozy they really were.

If Ukraine saw Biden as their best chance of becoming a NATO partner, Putin probably did so as well.  Instead of demanding NATO contract to 1997 composition, he was now faced with preventing even further expansion.

You really have to ask the obvious question:  Since when do sovereign nations allow adversaries to dictate to them how they will handle their international relationships and alliances?  Russia is feeling outnumbered, and Putin doesn't want that to become even worse for Russia.  How is it acceptable for Putin to dictate to any nation, including Ukraine, whether or not they can join NATO?

Best thing Trump can do is facilitate NATO's admission of Ukraine as a member, then tell Putin he has 3 weeks to withdraw his troops from the country before the entire NATO alliance comes to Ukraine's defense.

Will that start WWIII?  Not if Putin has any commons sense.  Look at the list of NATO members again, and see what Putin sees.  Our biggest hurdle is if China decides to get involved on Russia's behalf.  I don't see them doing that.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: macsak on November 08, 2024, 01:11:29 PM
don't question the forum SME...

Are you assuming this or did Russia state the above?  I would like to know what Russia's goals are from their statement.  Im sure Putin mentioned why he invaded Ukraine.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: ren on November 08, 2024, 02:51:44 PM
(https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Empire-at-War_wall.jpg)
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Jaco808 on November 08, 2024, 05:04:35 PM
Whether interpreting Russia's goals from a US imperial or Russian perspective, it can fall in the following areas:

1.  Preventing further military encroachment of the US empire and its vassal European military alliance NATO to Russia's borders.
2.  De-Nazification of Ukraine's central government that has historically terrorized the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.
3.  Acknowledgment of Crimea and now the other ethnic Russian territories under Russian control as being part of the Russian Federation.

Unlike the US empire's illegal annexation and ongoing illegal occupation of Hawaii, it was never Russia's strategic goal to conquer Ukraine and annex it to the Russian Federation.

Crazy fake news.   What's next China wants to attack Taiwan cause nazis and fear of them joining the pacific NATO? 
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: rpoL98 on November 08, 2024, 06:00:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/CFdtoZI.jpg)
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 08, 2024, 06:03:05 PM
Crazy fake news.   What's next China wants to attack Taiwan cause nazis and fear of them joining the pacific NATO?

Pacific NATO?

Still drunk from Tuesday night, huh?
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: rpoL98 on November 08, 2024, 06:08:14 PM
this is Professor Jeffery Sachs, going into how this Ukraine mess all started, going back to Reagan and Gorbachev times.  IMHO, it's a really good recounting of the history of how we got to where we are now.  One of the Cambridge University debate series.    :shaka:

https://x.com/markhamowl/status/1852636677841342578 (https://x.com/markhamowl/status/1852636677841342578)
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 08, 2024, 06:13:13 PM
Pacific NATO?

Still drunk from Tuesday night, huh?

2 cases of BUD LIGHT?
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: ren on November 08, 2024, 08:16:32 PM
Pacific NATO?

Still drunk from Tuesday night, huh?

(https://www.nutritionadvance.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/natto-fermented-soybeans-1024x683.jpg)
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 08, 2024, 08:29:40 PM
Are you assuming this or did Russia state the above?  I would like to know what Russia's goals are from their statement.  Im sure Putin mentioned why he invaded Ukraine.
What I stated above is a brief summary of Russia's strategic goals regarding the Ukraine War as stated in Putin's many speeches during the last two years.

You can easily go to YouTube and hear it from his own words for yourself.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 08, 2024, 09:06:08 PM
You really have to ask the obvious question:  Since when do sovereign nations allow adversaries to dictate to them how they will handle their international relationships and alliances?/
The US empire does things of this nature to keep its vassal states in-line all the time.

Did everyone forget the blowing up of the Nord Stream pipeline after Biden made clear that pipeline will come to an end in the months prior; thereby, ensuring all economic ties between the EU and Russia were severed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWUuhNd37WI

Was the EU ever consulted before the Nord Stream Pipeline's destruction plans were made?



How is it acceptable for Putin to dictate to any nation, including Ukraine, whether or not they can join NATO?
If Americans do not find it acceptable for Russia demanding Ukraine not join NATO, how can Americans on the other hand find it acceptable for the US empire to assist in the overthrow and later illegally annex the Hawaiian Kingdom against the will of its leadership and people?



Best thing Trump can do is facilitate NATO's admission of Ukraine as a member, then tell Putin he has 3 weeks to withdraw his troops from the country before the entire NATO alliance comes to Ukraine's defense.
Trump is not a warmonger and everything he has stated to this point regarding Ukraine is an end to hostilities.



Will that start WWIII?  Not if Putin has any commons sense.  Look at the list of NATO members again, and see what Putin sees.  Our biggest hurdle is if China decides to get involved on Russia's behalf.  I don't see them doing that.
Since Russia has been fighting not just Ukrainians but hired mercenaries and former soldiers from the US empire and NATO members already, do you really think Putin and the people of the Russian Federation are afraid of what Trump does?  If anything, American snowflakes, soy boys, and gender fluid biological males should be afraid of the possibility of getting drafted to fight the battle-hardened Russians in Ukraine.

Moreover, with China knowing full well that the US empire is preparing proxy wars against its nation via a potential Taiwan independence declaration and/or the South China Sea disputes with the Philippines, it should come to no surprise if China decides to directly or indirectly support the Russian Federation against any war from the US empire and its vassal states.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 08, 2024, 09:34:37 PM
The US empire does things of this nature to keep its vassal states in-line all the time.

Makes no sense. 
I asked "Since when do sovereign nations allow adversaries to dictate to them how they will handle their international relationships and alliances?
Your reply is in the context of nations already allied with the US, not adversaries being told how to form alliances


Did everyone forget the blowing up of the Nord Stream pipeline after Biden made clear that pipeline will come to an end in the months prior; thereby, ensuring all economic ties between the EU and Russia were severed?

Was the EU ever consulted before the Nord Stream Pipeline's destruction plans were made?

Why do you think Russia would ever consult  the EU before sabotaging the pipeline?  There's been no conclusive evidence as to who was responsible, but after multiple investigations by many nations, the best guess is Russia did it.  Russian subs and supply ships were reported in the area within the week leading up to the explosions.
 No other vessels capable of carrying the materials used were in the area.


If you do not find it acceptable for Russia demanding Ukraine not join NATO, how can you on the other hand find it acceptable for the US empire to assist in the overthrow and later illegally annex the Hawaiian Kingdom against the will of its leadership and people?

Why are you making an assumption that I find it acceptable for the US to "assist" in the overthrow and annexation of Hawaii? 
Even if I did find it acceptable, it's apples and oranges.  The US didn't invade Hawaii causing over 1 million casualties, the complete destruction of 6 cities and displacing 3.7 million refugees.



Trump is not a warmonger and everything he has stated to this point regarding Ukraine is an end to hostilities.


Since Russia has been fighting not just Ukrainians but hired mercenaries and former soldiers from the US empire and NATO members already, do you really think Putin and the people of the Russian Federation are afraid of what Trump does?  If anything, American snowflakes, soy boys, and gender fluid biological males should be afraid of the possibility of getting drafted to fight the battle-hardened Russians in Ukraine.

Moreover, with China knowing full well that the US empire is preparing for proxy wars against its nation via a potential Taiwan independence declaration and/or the South China Sea disputes with the Philippines, it should come to no surprise if China decides to directly or indirectly support the Russian Federation against any war from the US empire and its vassal states.

I never said Putin was "afraid of what Trump does."  I said he respects Trump.  That's a valuable thing when Trump begins negotiating for peace.  Putin will be more likely to accept terms coming from Trump than from Harris, and Biden apparently would rather keep funding the death cycle of all out war than try negotiating.

China is going to sit on the sidelines strengthening their economic position to be better prepared to go after Taiwan.  They have no real benefit from supporting Russia on the other side of the world, especially since Russia is wasting so much wealth to attains such little land.

Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 10, 2024, 10:39:52 AM
I asked "Since when do sovereign nations allow adversaries to dictate to them how they will handle their international relationships and alliances?
Your reply is in the context of nations already allied with the US, not adversaries being told how to form alliances.
Oh really?

Just this morning, it has been revealed by Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-ordered-tsmc-halt-shipments-china-chips-used-ai-applications-source-says-2024-11-10/) that the US empire using their lame duck senile of fool mouthpiece just ordered the Republic of China to stop shipping advanced chips used in artificial intelligence applications to customers in China; thereby, dictating to Taiwan who they can sell their domestic products to.  If that is not interfering with a sovereign nation's economic relationships, I don't know what it.


US ordered TSMC to halt shipments to China of chips used in AI applications
By Karen Freifeld and Fanny Potkin
November 9, 2024, 7:12 PM HST, Updated 13 hours ago


NEW YORK/SINGAPORE, Nov 9 (Reuters) - The U.S. ordered Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (2330.TW), opens new tab to halt shipments of advanced chips to Chinese customers that are often used in artificial intelligence applications starting Monday, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The Department of Commerce sent a letter to TSMC imposing export restrictions on certain sophisticated chips, of 7 nanometer or more advanced designs, destined for China that power AI accelerator and graphics processing units (GPU), the person said.

The U.S. order, which is being reported for the first time, comes just weeks after TSMC notified the Commerce Department that one of its chips had been found in a Huawei AI processor, as Reuters reported last month. Tech research firm Tech Insights had taken apart the product, revealing the TSMC chip and apparent violation of export controls.

Huawei, at the center of the U.S. action, is on a restricted trade list, which requires suppliers to obtain licenses to ship any goods or technology to the company. Any license that could aid Huawei's AI efforts would likely be denied.

TSMC suspended shipments to China-based chip designer Sophgo after its chip matched the one found on the Huawei AI processor, sources told Reuters last month.

Reuters could not determine how the chip ended up on Huawei's Ascend 910B, released in 2022, viewed as the most advanced AI chip available from a Chinese company.

The latest clampdown hits many more companies and will allow the U.S. to assess whether other companies are diverting chips to Huawei for its AI processor.

As a result of the letter, TSMC notified affected clients that it was suspending shipments of chips starting Monday, the person said.

The Commerce Department declined comment.

“TSMC has had regular discussions with the government on export control issues and has made it clear that it will comply with domestic and international regulations,” Taiwan's economy ministry said in a statement to Reuters, referring specific questions to TSMC.

A spokesperson for TSMC also declined to comment beyond saying it was a "law-abiding company...committed to complying with all applicable rules and regulations, including applicable export controls."

The Commerce Department communication - known as an "is informed" letter - allows the U.S. to bypass lengthy rule-writing processes to quickly impose new licensing requirements on specific companies.

Ijiwei, a Chinese media site covering the semiconductor industry, reported on Friday that TSMC notified Chinese chip design companies it would suspend 7 nanometer or below chips for AI and GPU customers beginning Nov. 11.

The action comes as both Republican and Democratic lawmakers have raised concerns about the inadequacy of export controls on China and the Commerce Department's enforcement of them.

In 2022, the Commerce Department sent is-informed letters to Nvidia and AMD restricting their ability to export top AI-related chips to China, and to chip equipment makers like Lam Research, Applied Materials and KLA to restrict tools to make advanced chips to China.

The restrictions in those letters were later turned into rules that apply to companies beyond them.

The U.S. has been delayed in updating rules on tech exports to China. As Reuters reported in July, the Biden administration drafted new rules on some foreign exports of chipmaking equipment and planned to add about 120 Chinese companies to the Commerce Department's restricted entity list, including chipmaking factories, toolmakers, and related companies.

But despite plans for an August release, and later tentative target dates for publication, the rules still have not been issued.

The Technology Roundup newsletter brings the latest news and trends straight to your inbox. Sign up here.

Reporting by Karen Freifeld and Fanny Potkin; Additional reporting by Ben Blanchard in Taipei; editing by Chris Sanders and Chizu Nomiyama



Why do you think Russia would ever consult the EU before sabotaging the pipeline?  There's been no conclusive evidence as to who was responsible, but after multiple investigations by many nations, the best guess is Russia did it.  Russian subs and supply ships were reported in the area within the week leading up to the explosions.
 No other vessels capable of carrying the materials used were in the area.
Question: What does Russia to gain by blowing up its own pipeline to the EU and cut off a substantial source of revenue?
Answer: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Question: What does the US empire gain by blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline, never mind that Biden himself said the US empire was going to end it?
Answer: Severing much needed natural gas revenue to Russia and making the EU dependent on way more expensive natural gas from the US empire.



Why are you making an assumption that I find it acceptable for the US to "assist" in the overthrow and annexation of Hawaii?
Even if I did find it acceptable, it's apples and oranges.  The US didn't invade Hawaii causing over 1 million casualties, the complete destruction of 6 cities and displacing 3.7 million refugees.
First of all, I don't see you as one that supports the restoration of the Hawaiian nation state.

Second, just because the US empire's illegal overthrow and annexation of Hawaii did not cause the same level of destruction as seen in the Ukrainian War that makes the current illegal occupation of Hawaii morally right to you?



I never said Putin was "afraid of what Trump does."  I said he respects Trump.  That's a valuable thing when Trump begins negotiating for peace.  Putin will be more likely to accept terms coming from Trump than from Harris, and Biden apparently would rather keep funding the death cycle of all out war than try negotiating.
Your statement presumes that it will be Trump that will be dictating terms for Putin to accept.

With the blood the Russian Federation has spilled as a direct result of the US empire's proxy war against it, it is more likely what Trump will concede to Russia for the Ukrainian War to end.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 10, 2024, 12:07:17 PM
Oh really?

Just this morning, it has been revealed by Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-ordered-tsmc-halt-shipments-china-chips-used-ai-applications-source-says-2024-11-10/) that the US empire using their lame duck senile of fool mouthpiece just ordered the Republic of China to stop shipping advanced chips used in artificial intelligence applications to customers in China; thereby, dictating to Taiwan who they can sell their domestic products to.  If that is not interfering with a sovereign nation's economic relationships, I don't know what it.


Once again, not the same thing.  Do you really have to be right even though you know you're wrong?  Show me an example where the US told China, N. Korea, Russia, or any other adversary they need to avoid or severe alliances with any other nation, or we won't play with them.


US ordered TSMC to halt shipments to China of chips used in AI applications
By Karen Freifeld and Fanny Potkin
November 9, 2024, 7:12 PM HST, Updated 13 hours ago


NEW YORK/SINGAPORE, Nov 9 (Reuters) - The U.S. ordered Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (2330.TW), opens new tab to halt shipments of advanced chips to Chinese customers that are often used in artificial intelligence applications starting Monday, according to a person familiar with the matter.

[snip]


Question: What does Russia to gain by blowing up its own pipeline to the EU and cut off a substantial source of revenue?
Answer: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  WRONG.  it gives them an excuse to start a war.

Question: What does the US empire gain by blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline, never mind that Biden himself said the US empire was going to end it?
Answer: Severing much needed natural gas revenue to Russia and making the EU dependent on way more expensive natural gas from the US empire. How much natural gas does the EU buy from the US as a percentage of all their natural gas demand?  ANSWER:  ZERO -- keep reading ...

Quote
“The EU doesn't buy LNG — there's a global LNG market and LNG buyers have
their own contracts,” he said. “It's certainly possible to do a memorandum of
understanding to talk about increasing purchases but ultimately in the past that's
been a way to put a political wrapper around something that was delivered by the
market. And the EU is buying as much LNG currently as the market needs.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/trump-european-union-gas-lng-united-states-export-tariffs-trade-election-biden-harris/

First of all, I don't see you as one that supports the restoration of the Hawaiian nation state.  I'm not a "Hawaiian" as defined by locals.  I'm a Hawaiian in that I live in this state, just as anyone living in New York is a New Yorker no matter where they were born.  The state is ... well ... a US State.  I don't think states have the legal right to secede from the US -- a fact that was demonstrated by the Civil War.  However, some legal scholars believe secession is legal, butt the problem becomes whether the state can withstand a federal government that can bring economic and military force to bear on the state.  Regardless, HI is now conditioned to enjoy the benefits of statehood.  Good luck trying to restore a kingdom that was too weak to prevent US annexation in the first place.

Second, just because the US empire's illegal overthrow and annexation of Hawaii did not cause the same level of destruction as seen in the Ukrainian War that makes the current illegal occupation of Hawaii morally right to you?  Yes.  The level of force in Ukraine is unjustified, considering Ukraine didn't invade Russia.  In Hawaii, what makes it moral is that the islands were already a US territory.  There was a legitimate reason to make the islands a state, especially when it could be done without bloodshed.
 Given the history of the world and the means used in the acquisition of lands, I'd say the way the US went about it was less immoral than most.


Your statement presumes that it will be Trump that will be dictating terms for Putin to accept.  That's not how negotiations work.  Trump will make offers, decline counter offers, etc.  When they reach a deal both sides can accept, there will be peace.  Seriously, your word choices are very tiring.  i think you know better, but you choose words like 'dictate' to purposely paint a different narrative than what exists in reality.

With the blood the Russian Federation has spilled as a direct result of the US empire's proxy war against it, it is more likely what Trump will concede to Russia for the Ukrainian War to end.  More inflammatory rhetoric.  The US did not force Russia to start killing Ukrainians.  Stop with the proxy war BS.  Trump hasn't got the authority to concede anything in Ukraine to  Russia,  what he does have is the economic and military strength to make life even more difficult for Russia, a nation using their resources to fight a massive war.  They are already placing a strain on their country.  More pressure applied in the right areas would make the gain no longer worth the pain.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 11, 2024, 08:22:25 PM
Once again, not the same thing.  Do you really have to be right even though you know you're wrong?  Show me an example where the US told China, N. Korea, Russia, or any other adversary they need to avoid or severe alliances with any other nation, or we won't play with them.
Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42YrwK2Zz6c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmNQlbqN3io

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGBmsAXtVFE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toMMU2lrPHc



WRONG.  it gives them an excuse to start a war.
Kinda too late to use that as an excuse to start a war when the Nord Stream pipeline was blown up by the US empire while the Ukranian War was well underway, not to mention Trump, himself, said it was not Russia who did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ktEFFrtq5I



I'm not a "Hawaiian" as defined by locals.  I'm a Hawaiian in that I live in this state, just as anyone living in New York is a New Yorker no matter where they were born.  The state is ... well ... a US State.  I don't think states have the legal right to secede from the US -- a fact that was demonstrated by the Civil War.  However, some legal scholars believe secession is legal, butt the problem becomes whether the state can withstand a federal government that can bring economic and military force to bear on the state.  Regardless, HI is now conditioned to enjoy the benefits of statehood.  Good luck trying to restore a kingdom that was too weak to prevent US annexation in the first place.
I guess you still refuse to recognize the illegality of the US empire's involvement in the illegal overthrow and subsequent illegal annexation of Hawaii based on US Constitutional law.

Out of curiosity, what do residents in Hawaii say when you call yourself a "Hawaiian"?



Yes.  The level of force in Ukraine is unjustified, considering Ukraine didn't invade Russia.  In Hawaii, what makes it moral is that the islands were already a US territory.  There was a legitimate reason to make the islands a state, especially when it could be done without bloodshed.
Given the history of the world and the means used in the acquisition of lands, I'd say the way the US went about it was less immoral than most.
Well, since Hawaii was never a US territory based on US Constitutional law, the US empire's ongoing illegal occupation of Hawaii can only be described as good old imperialism.

The US empire taking lands to expand its empire was "less immoral" than other empires?  Give me a break.  Tell that to the Native Americans.



More inflammatory rhetoric.  The US did not force Russia to start killing Ukrainians.  Stop with the proxy war BS.  Trump hasn't got the authority to concede anything in Ukraine to  Russia,  what he does have is the economic and military strength to make life even more difficult for Russia, a nation using their resources to fight a massive war.  They are already placing a strain on their country.  More pressure applied in the right areas would make the gain no longer worth the pain.
Proxy war BS?  I guess the following people in the videos below are not well informed as you are...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWu7cPPVv0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jegPXQ0rG3k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjAkKOjI9g



Well, Trump could impose more economic sanctions, but it seems all the sanctions placed on Russia thus far is not having its intended effect.  RIP Petrodollar.  Long live BRICS!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3DW2i7uXC8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2mI8WTEffg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa89rmjEb7Y
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 12, 2024, 01:34:02 AM
Enjoy
......
Excellent effort, but the topic was comparative.

Are you telling me (us) that Biden did the best job with the Russia-Ukraine war, and Harris would have also done the best job?  Trump will be worse than either of them?

It's not an essay question.  Either you think Trump will be better for the situation or worse.

Care to give a one sentence answer?

And I never call myself a Hawaiian.  I use "Hawaii resident".  This state is unique in that regard as the state name also happens to be an ethnicity.  Italians are from Italy and  Romans were from Rome.  But, anyone who was a citizen could use those labels.  Hawaiian is not as easy unless another name is used for the ethnic/racial group that lived here first.

We stopped calling American Indians that because "Indian" was already taken by India, and it confuses people.  The name was erroneously coined by Columbus, I believe.  He believed he had landed in Southeast Asia as he was seeking trade routes to there, and he decided the people he found were actually Indians.  It took until the 1970s to start correcting that mistake.

https://www.historicalindex.org/why-are-native-americans-called-indians.htm
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 12, 2024, 08:57:14 AM

We stopped calling American Indians that because "Indian" was already taken by India, and it confuses people.  The name was erroneously coined by Columbus, I believe.  He believed he had landed in Southeast Asia as he was seeking trade routes to there, and he decided the people he found were actually Indians.  It took until the 1970s to start correcting that mistake.

https://www.historicalindex.org/why-are-native-americans-called-indians.htm

When I say Indian, I often follow it by a "hey how are you" or a "thank you, come again". Never had an issue of people being confused.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: rpoL98 on November 12, 2024, 10:40:27 AM

We stopped calling American Indians that because "Indian" was already taken by India, and it confuses people.  The name was erroneously coined by Columbus, I believe.  He believed he had landed in Southeast Asia as he was seeking trade routes to there, and he decided the people he found were actually Indians.  It took until the 1970s to start correcting that mistake.

https://www.historicalindex.org/why-are-native-americans-called-indians.htm
I noticed that Indians from the south-asian Indian subcontinent are sometimes identified as "7-eleven" Indians, although maybe there's some profiling there.  It works.


regarding Trump, Ukraine, Russia, not sure if the US still has the clout to force negotiated outcomes with respect to Russia v Ukraine, our military has certainly lost some of its' luster.  Along with other western militaries.



(https://i.imgur.com/qkjd5pk.jpg)
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 12, 2024, 11:57:28 AM
Are you telling me (us) that Biden did the best job with the Russia-Ukraine war, and Harris would have also done the best job?  Trump will be worse than either of them?

It's not an essay question.  Either you think Trump will be better for the situation or worse.

Care to give a one sentence answer?
Trump is not a warmonger and is the right person to lend assistance to end hostilities in Ukraine.

However, until his selections for Secretary of the State, Secretary of Defense, and his national security adviser are made official, it is only at that time we will know if Trump is truly a man who wants peace, or another stooge placed in the White House to rubber stamp the US empire's march to WWIII.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 12, 2024, 12:44:57 PM
Trump is not a warmonger and is the right person to lend assistance to end hostilities in Ukraine.

However, until his selections for Secretary of the State, Secretary of Defense, and his national security adviser are made official, it is only at that time we will know if Trump is truly a man who wants peace, or another stooge placed in the White House to rubber stamp the US empire's march to WWIII.

Ur stacking the deck on Trump. What you're saying is if Trump does nothing as in the war continues, does he truely want peace?. Remember, Putin didn't invade when Trump was POTUS. He waited.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 12, 2024, 02:05:13 PM
Trump is not a warmonger and is the right person to lend assistance to end hostilities in Ukraine.

However, until his selections for Secretary of the State, Secretary of Defense, and his national security adviser are made official, it is only at that time we will know if Trump is truly a man who wants peace, or another stooge placed in the White House to rubber stamp the US empire's march to WWIII.

I don't think an opinion should rest on who he appoints to his cabinet and as advisors.  Ultimately, the President and Commander in Chief is responsible for making the decisions.  If he selects competent, trustworthy individuals, any actions are his and his alone.  If someone betrays his trust, like the Pentagon leaders did last term when they lied to him, he should hold them accountable and replace them.

I never expect any president to be perfect, but i do expect them to be who they promised they would be.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 12, 2024, 07:59:32 PM
Ur stacking the deck on Trump. What you're saying is if Trump does nothing as in the war continues, does he truely want peace?. Remember, Putin didn't invade when Trump was POTUS. He waited.
Since we are talking about the potential of WWIII, if Trump selects known neocons and/or Russia/China/Iran/DPRK Warhawks to the most strategic roles of his executive cabinet, then yes, he does not truly want peace.

Putin did not invade Ukraine during Trump's first term in office not because he was afraid of him, but had hopes Trump would be willing to negotiate a deal to peacefully address Russian strategic concerns regarding Ukraine.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 12, 2024, 08:05:47 PM
Since we are talking about the potential of WWIII, if Trump selects known neocons and/or Russia/China/Iran/DPRK Warhawks to the most strategic roles of his executive cabinet, then yes, he does not truly want peace.

Putin did not invade Ukraine during Trump's first term in office not because he was afraid of him, but had hopes Trump would be willing to negotiate a deal to peacefully address Russian strategic concerns regarding Ukraine.

I think YOU were talking about a possible WWIII in the future.  I was talking about the Russia-Ukraine war that's going on today.

He's had 4 years to contemplate any appointments, past and present, and to figure out what he did right and wrong his first term.

I think he's going to make excellent choices.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: macsak on November 12, 2024, 08:20:46 PM
as always, you left out, "in my opinion"...

Since we are talking about the potential of WWIII, if Trump selects known neocons and/or Russia/China/Iran/DPRK Warhawks to the most strategic roles of his executive cabinet, then yes, he does not truly want peace.

Putin did not invade Ukraine during Trump's first term in office not because he was afraid of him, but had hopes Trump would be willing to negotiate a deal to peacefully address Russian strategic concerns regarding Ukraine.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 13, 2024, 11:13:28 AM
I think YOU were talking about a possible WWIII in the future.  I was talking about the Russia-Ukraine war that's going on today.
In regard to the US proxy war in Ukraine where the US empire is providing money, material, military advisors as well as indirectly channeling hired mercenaries from all corners of its empire and vassal states to Ukraine, how can the Russians as well as many all over the World not view this as or at the very least the opening stages of WWIII?



I think he's going to make excellent choices.
With neocons/China Hawks/Zionists Rubio, Waltz, Stefanik already announced to be part of Trump's cabinet, it appears the US empire could potentially be involved in a greater war in the Middle East against Iran as well as proxy war against China via the Philippines and/or Taiwan.

Furthermore, with such pro-war individuals and potentially others surrounding Trump in the White House, how can Trump even end the Ukrainian War?
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 13, 2024, 11:25:59 AM
In regard to the US proxy war in Ukraine where the US empire is providing money, material, military advisors as well as indirectly channeling hired mercenaries from all corners of its empire and vassal states to Ukraine, how can the Russians as well as many all over the World not view this as or at the very least the opening stages of WWIII?

Because it's no different than the Cuban Missile Crisis, The Bay of Pigs attack, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom, Afghanistan, Syria, and lately the Iranian assassination plans against Trump.  EVERY one of these types of events are viewed as the opening stages of WWIII, yet we have been able to avoid it.  I don't think I, nor the "many all over the world" are any more worried about WWIII at this stage than they have been in the past.

With neocons/China Hawks/Zionists Rubio, Waltz, Stefanik already announced to be part of Trump's cabinet, it appears the US empire could potentially be involved in a greater war in the Middle East against Iran as well as proxy war against China via the Philippines and/or Taiwan.

As opposed to whom?  If we continue to show weakness and capitulation in the face of direct and covert attack on our military, leadership and civilians, we INVITE further attacks through our weak responses.  When asked what his message to Iran would be regarding them attacking Israel, Biden said, "Don't."   Wow!  Such a harsh warning.

Furthermore, with such pro-war individuals and potentially others surrounding Trump in the White House, how can Trump even end the Ukrainian War?

Purely rhetorical.  Assumes actions not yet demonstrated, since those people have yet to assume their new roles.

https://beta.c-span.org/clip/public-affairs-event/president-biden-delivers-message-to-iran-dont-attack-israel/5113558
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 13, 2024, 11:50:16 AM
Because it's no different than the Cuban Missile Crisis, The Bay of Pigs attack, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom, Afghanistan, Syria, and lately the Iranian assassination plans against Trump.  EVERY one of these types of events are viewed as the opening stages of WWIII, yet we have been able to avoid it.  I don't think I, nor the "many all over the world" are any more worried about WWIII at this stage than they have been in the past.
The only difference is that Americans whether mercenary, clandestine CIA, etc. are directly fighting the Russians and even taking part of invading Russia itself via Kursk.



As opposed to whom?  If we continue to show weakness and capitulation in the face of direct and covert attack on our military, leadership and civilians, we INVITE further attacks through our weak responses.  When asked what his message to Iran would be regarding them attacking Israel, Biden said, "Don't."   Wow!  Such a harsh warning.
Risk further attacks from whom to where?  Israel?

As much as all the so-called elected stooges swear their support of Israel, the US empire does have a number of assistance related agreements, but it does not have an offically military alliance with Israel.  Hence, it is not the responsibility of the US empire to fight, dissuade, etc. any nation that Israel has issues with.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 13, 2024, 12:00:43 PM
The only difference is that Americans whether mercenary, clandestine CIA, etc. are directly fighting the Russians and even taking part of invading Russia itself via Kursk.


Risk further attacks from whom to where?  Israel?

As much as all the so-called elected stooges swear their support of Israel, the US empire does have a number of assistance related agreements, but it does not have an offically military alliance with Israel.  Hence, it is not the responsibility of the US empire to fight, dissuade, etc. any nation that Israel has issues with.

Israel’s president says response to Iran attack
showed ‘ironclad’ alliance between Israel, US


G7 countries condemn Iran’s attack on Israel

U.S. says Iran’s attack on Israel clearly
intended to cause ‘significant’ damage, death


Israel activating two reserve brigades for operations in Gaza

Hezbollah praises Iran attack on Israel,
calls it a ‘new phase’ in conflict with Israel


Israeli war cabinet member Gantz praises
international efforts to thwart Iran attack


The shadow war between Iran and Israel has
been exposed. What happens next?

Quote
Iran’s unprecedented attack on Israel early Sunday marked a change in approach
for Tehran, which had relied on proxies across the Middle East since the start of
the Israel-Hamas war in October.

All eyes are now on whether Israel chooses to take further military action, while
Washington seeks diplomatic measures instead to ease regional tensions.
https://apnews.com/live/israel-iran-drone-attack-live-updates

Why do you always sound like you're supporting anyone who's against the US? 

Do you have your bags packed? 

In which US-hating country are you planning to reside?
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 13, 2024, 12:17:53 PM
The only difference is that Americans whether mercenary, clandestine CIA, etc. are directly fighting the Russians and even taking part of invading Russia itself via Kursk.



The US has spooks or spies in every country doing  forms of "attacking".  So do other countries as well.  French Foreign Legion comes to mind that has many various countries as well.  They even had Nazi's join, but they tried their best to weed them out.  1 tell tale sign of a Nazi that the Legion checked for was the tattoo of their blood type or a removal scar under their left arm area (near bicep).  The problem was that regular soldiers sometimes got their blood types tattooed as well in the same area at hospitals while they were recovering, so they didn't have a say in it.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 13, 2024, 07:12:30 PM
The US has spooks or spies in every country doing  forms of "attacking".  So do other countries as well.
Proxy wars are nothing new.  However, when you have the US empire providing intelligence, materials, money, as well as non-uniformed former(?) servicemen fighting and taking a part in an actual land invasion of Russia that is something entirely different.

When was the last time Russia and/or China sent Russian/Chinese mercenaries to fight or invade the continental US?
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: rpoL98 on November 13, 2024, 07:26:30 PM
under Biden, Mayorkas, a huge number of chinese military age males came in across the southern border, illegally.  Just like the rest of the illegals, total quanitity unknown because of the got-aways, but many were apprehended.  a not-insignificant number.  Probably more chinese, than russian illegals.  or white south africans.  A whole lot more.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 13, 2024, 07:45:10 PM
Proxy wars are nothing new.  However, when you have the US empire providing intelligence, materials, money, as well as non-uniformed former(?) servicemen fighting and taking a part in an actual land invasion of Russia that is something entirely different.

When was the last time Russia and/or China sent Russian/Chinese mercenaries to fight or invade the continental US?
The Continental US is somewhat unique among large, powerful nations.  Our geographic boundaries of the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, The Gulf of Mexico to the South, one neighbor to the North, and one neighbor to the South makes us less vulnerable to invasions on our interior.  I don't think other nations haven't thought about it, but our nation is too vast and varied to mount an effective invasion before we see it coming.  Red Dawn was pure fiction.  We have too many eyes on our borders to not see a massive invasion force heading our way.

Can you point to any news sources that report a land invasion by Ukraine into Russian territory?  All i can find is a counter-offensive, meaning they are there to affect tactical and strategic goals, not to occupy it for good.

The only thing i can find is, after over 2 1/2 years of Russia invading Ukraine, Ukraine recently went on the offense and gained about 18 miles inside Russia.

In contrast, Russia controls about 20%-24% of Ukrainian territory with 3M-3.5M Ukrainians living under Russian occupation.

Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 13, 2024, 07:47:30 PM
Proxy wars are nothing new.  However, when you have the US empire providing intelligence, materials, money, as well as non-uniformed former(?) servicemen fighting and taking a part in an actual land invasion of Russia that is something entirely different.

When was the last time Russia and/or China sent Russian/Chinese mercenaries to fight or invade the continental US?
China is smart and using econonic warfare instead.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 13, 2024, 07:55:59 PM
Why do you always sound like you're supporting anyone who's against the US?
Maybe because Hawaii is being illegally occupied; having its water poisoned by gasoline; lands contaminated by depleted uranium; etc. by said nation.



Do you have your bags packed?
What for?

Are you inviting me to go with you to Las Vegas?   :geekdanc:



In which US-hating country are you planning to reside?
I don't understand the nature of your question.

I am a Hawaiian national living in my homeland of Hawaii.   :thumbsup:

 :stopjack:
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 13, 2024, 08:07:08 PM
Maybe because Hawaii is being illegally occupied; having its water poisoned by gasoline; lands contaminated by depleted uranium; etc. by said nation.


What for?

Are you inviting me to go with you to Las Vegas?   :geekdanc:


I don't understand the nature of your question.

I am a Hawaiian national living in my homeland of Hawaii.   :thumbsup:

 :stopjack:

Bad Netiquette to make such a long reply, and then post  :stopjack:
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: ren on November 13, 2024, 08:37:03 PM
(http://img.lum.dolimg.com/v1/images/open-uri20150608-27674-rc3hp9_2c8d7df8.jpeg?region=0,61,1280,718)
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 13, 2024, 09:15:13 PM
China is smart and using econonic warfare instead.
How are you defining economic warfare?
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 13, 2024, 09:22:59 PM
Can you point to any news sources that report a land invasion by Ukraine into Russian territory?  All i can find is a counter-offensive, meaning they are there to affect tactical and strategic goals, not to occupy it for good.

The only thing i can find is, after over 2 1/2 years of Russia invading Ukraine, Ukraine recently went on the offense and gained about 18 miles inside Russia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kndAdLxnasM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1dgOYvpn7I


Whether a nation is able to march to another nation's capital or just over the border, it is still one sovereign country invading another one.

It is not Russia's fault that the latest Ukrainian invasion into Russia was an utter failure.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 13, 2024, 09:27:24 PM
under Biden, Mayorkas, a huge number of chinese military age males came in across the southern border, illegally.  Just like the rest of the illegals, total quanitity unknown because of the got-aways, but many were apprehended.  a not-insignificant number.  Probably more chinese, than russian illegals.  or white south africans.  A whole lot more.
Big difference between illegal military aged aliens from Russia and/or China crossing into the continental US versus military armed American clandestine, mercenaries, and etc. purposely invading the Russia and killing its people.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 13, 2024, 09:39:59 PM
Big difference between illegal military aged aliens from Russia and/or China crossing into the continental US versus military armed American clandestine, mercenaries, and etc. purposely invading the Russia and killing its people.

How can you state that so definitively when you have no idea what the intentions of any of those people crossing into the US are.

You should watch the movie Telefon.  It has a plot that's probably more extreme since it's fiction, but the plot outlines how we could easily be susceptible to such a plan without the mind control.

The 9/11 attacks were carried out by people we allowed into the country.  How much worse would it be if there were thousands of terrorists who entered the US illegally, applied for refugee status under Biden's rules, are given room, board, phones and cash, and transported to large cities all around the country?
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Kuleana on November 13, 2024, 10:27:10 PM
How can you state that so definitively when you have no idea what the intentions of any of those people crossing into the US are.
Maybe because I am a firm believer of the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution.

Presuming that you are a defender of the US Constitution, it is strange that you would not afford those same "innocent until proven guilty" legal protections and due process regarding the intentions of those illegal aliens that cross the border into the continental US based on your question above.
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 14, 2024, 12:06:56 AM
Maybe because I am a firm believer of the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution.

Presuming that you are a defender of the US Constitution, it is strange that you would not afford those same "innocent until proven guilty" legal protections and due process regarding the intentions of those illegal aliens that cross the border into the continental US based on your question above.

So, if people who are citizens, born or naturalized, are murdered because the government doesn't secure the borders, you don't feel those deaths were preventable?  "Not a criminal until they commit another crime on top of border jumping and are tried before deportation?"

They are already guilty of being in the US illegally.  No need to wrap them in the Constitution and allow them to roam freely.   And it abides by international law -- must apply for asylum in the first safe country they enter.

Due process for illegals should be: no proof of US citizenship or residence?  Carrying identification from another country?  Admitted to sneaking across the border instead of walking up to a port of entry?   Seems like you want to make the process difficult when the evidence is in plain sight. 

i prefer the Wait in Mexico program.  No risk to LEGAL residents and citizens while they await "due process".
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 14, 2024, 08:30:39 AM
Maybe because I am a firm believer of the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution.

Presuming that you are a defender of the US Constitution, it is strange that you would not afford those same "innocent until proven guilty" legal protections and due process regarding the intentions of those illegal aliens that cross the border into the continental US based on your question above.

Many are caught at or near the border with no documentation of them entering.  If you were at the border and showed your Hawaii ID, i doubt they would arrest you at all.  So logical evidence on hand would dictate that they have already committed a crime of coming into the US illegally.  They are arrested and either released and given a court date or deported once it's been established no such documents exist. So they are afforded their due process right, even though they are not legal residents, US citizens, or on a visa (14th amendment).  Would you allow these illegals to have a 2A right?
Title: Re: Regarding the Ukrainian War, We're better off with a President Putin RESPECTS
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 14, 2024, 11:03:27 AM
Many are caught at or near the border with no documentation of them entering.  If you were at the border and showed your Hawaii ID, i doubt they would arrest you at all.  So logical evidence on hand would dictate that they have already committed a crime of coming into the US illegally.  They are arrested and either released and given a court date or deported once it's been established no such documents exist. So they are afforded their due process right, even though they are not legal residents, US citizens, or on a visa (14th amendment).  Would you allow these illegals to have a 2A right?

Maybe they should all be allowed to vote, too?  i know certain democrat states are allowing them to vote in local elections, because that's the end goal.  Open boarders and massive numbers of new, controllable democrat voters.  "Vote for us, or the other side will deport you and all your family members!"

One reason we need the Stay in Mexico rule is because letting the illegal stay in the US allows them to become parasites on our system.  They file for all kinds of assistance, work under the table so they don't pay taxes, send the bulk of their earnings back home to help their families (often to save up so they, too, can hire a coyote to get them here), and any crimes they commit often go unreported if they are against other illegals who don't want to involve police and risk deportation.  They take advantage of tax payers and take jobs that should be hiring legal residents at higher pay.  Better that they not be rewarded by letting them live where they intended to when they left their homes.