2aHawaii
General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: Flapp_Jackson on February 27, 2025, 10:57:16 PM
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Transgender US service members to be removed
from military, Pentagon memo shows
WASHINGTON, Feb 26 (Reuters) - Transgender service members will be
separated from the U.S. military unless they receive an exemption, according
to a Pentagon memo filed in court on Wednesday, essentially banning them
from joining or serving in the military.
The move, which goes further than restrictions President Donald Trump placed
on transgender service members during his first administration, was described
as unprecedented by advocates.
Trump signed an executive order last month that took aim at transgender troops
in a personal way - at one point saying that a man identifying as a woman was
"not consistent with the humility and selflessness required of a service member."
This month, the Pentagon had said that the U.S. military will no longer allow
transgender individuals to join and will stop performing or facilitating procedures
associated with gender transition for service members.
Wednesday's late-evening memo expands the ban to currently serving members
of the military.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/transgender-us-service-members-will-be-separated-military-unless-exempted-2025-02-27/
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I thought they had shopped a judge to file an injunction (or whatever it is they do) to stop this?
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I thought they had shopped a judge to file an injunction (or whatever it is they do) to stop this?
TBD
Updated 7:03 PM EST, Thu February 27, 2025
The document detailing the Pentagon’s new policy emerged in the court filing
as part of a legal challenge to Trump’s executive order. During recent hearings
in the case, US District Judge Ana Reyes said the executive order is “arguably
rampant with animus” — signaling she could be inclined to rule in favor of
several trans service members and two trans individuals hoping to join the
military who brought the lawsuit last month.
But Reyes, an appointee of former President Joe Biden, agreed to hold off on
deciding whether to indefinitely block the order until she saw the department’s
official guidance implementing it. More written legal arguments from both sides
will be submitted in the coming days, and the judge is set to hold another
hearing in the case later next month.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/26/politics/pentagon-remove-transgender-service-members-new-policy/index.html
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I've posted about this before, but our Midweek did an article of a tranny named "shane" who was in the Army. She wants to be a he. Went as far to be on hormone treatment as her muscles were bigger than mine, cut her tits off and entered a mens bodybuilding competition as a mens physique competitor (wears board shorts and poses). She stated that she felt funny wearing a womans class A uniform cause she was much more muscular.
Once she got out, her bf who's a guy but thinks he's a girl, killed himself. IDK the reason, but I can suspect what it was.
Then she got really into trying to be native american. Like pow wow events and stuff. She even stated she was part of X tribe. But then X tribe responded that she was never part of their tribe, but has applied. But the application was denied.
Then she went dark on all social media as other Native Americans began calling her out for being a poser and wannabe.
This is the only tranny that I knew of who was in the military.
So the moral of the story is that someone wiht a mental disorder shouldn't be in our military.
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[snip]
So the moral of the story is that someone wiht a mental disorder shouldn't be in our military.
The DoD and each branch have standards for admitting recruits. You have to pass a physical exam, a criminal background check, basic dental and vision tests, snd so on.
Even if we ignored the mental illness aspects of wanting to become the opposite gender, there's the physical aspect. Hormone replacement, cosmetic surgeries, and other treatments involve expensive surgeries, expensive specialists, expensive drugs, and constant time away from work to take care of all of that.
We don't let people with cancer, asthma, drug addictions, HIV/AIDS, color blindness, and a whole litany of chronic ailments and conditions into the service because we need healthy people who can do the job and not spend half their days in the clinics for one thing or another. It's worse when you deploy as there are going to be limited medical services available.
Imagine being on patrol or in a remote location for up to a week at a time. How are you going to keep up with the hair removal, hormone taking, and side effect causing treatments you need on a daily basis? You'd be lucky just to find a way to shower every other day.
I've seen more than one confession by people who de-transitioned, and a primary reason for all of them was the amount of time, effort and costly products needed to maintain the illusion of being the opposite gender. It's not going to be any easier in the military. if you get injured, who's going to want to continue your trans regimen for you while you're unable to yourself?
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The DoD and each branch have standards for admitting recruits. You have to pass a physical exam, a criminal background check, basic dental and vision tests, snd so on.
Even if we ignored the mental illness aspects of wanting to become the opposite gender, there's the physical aspect. Hormone replacement, cosmetic surgeries, and other treatments involve expensive surgeries, expensive specialists, expensive drugs, and constant time away from work to take care of all of that.
We don't let people with cancer, asthma, drug addictions, HIV/AIDS, color blindness, and a whole litany of chronic ailments and conditions into the service because we need healthy people who can do the job and not spend half their days in the clinics for one thing or another. It's worse when you deploy as there are going to be limited medical services available.
Imagine being on patrol or in a remote location for up to a week at a time. How are you going to keep up with the hair removal, hormone taking, and side effect causing treatments you need on a daily basis? You'd be lucky just to find a way to shower every other day.
I've seen more than one confession by people who de-transitioned, and a primary reason for all of them was the amount of time, effort and costly products needed to maintain the illusion of being the opposite gender. It's not going to be any easier in the military. if you get injured, who's going to want to continue your trans regimen for you while you're unable to yourself?
Imagine if I was treated like a general, just because I thought I was one.
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I don't have problems with trans in the military as long as they don't have problems or cause trouble. If they can fight then let em in.
Problem I have is trans need medications and that's normally a disqualifier. Like people with diabetes can't be join due to needing insulin. The same is true for psychological disorders and suicidal tendencies. They should not get a pass for things others get rejected for. There may be military positions that may be more suitable like space force.
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I don't have problems with trans in the military as long as they don't have problems or cause trouble. If they can fight then let em in.
Problem I have is trans need medications and that's normally a disqualifier. Like people with diabetes can't be join due to needing insulin. The same is true for psychological disorders and suicidal tendencies. They should not get a pass for things others get rejected for. There may be military positions that may be more suitable like space force.
What one does at home is 1 thing. Bringing it to work and forcing others to share a delusion isn't good. But also, if someone thinks they're something they're not, then that's a mental illness. There's a diff between, "I like to wear womens clothing (as a male)" and "I am a woman (as a male).
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I don't have problems with trans in the military as long as they don't have problems or cause trouble. If they can fight then let em in.
I'm pretty sure that they can fight and would fight. But there still would be problems and trouble. You brought up important and legitimate points.
Add in confusion amongst the brothers and sisters in arms. I'm sure some (or in my opinion most) of them will not take it lightly when the chips are down and bullets are flying.
Humping food, water, and ammunition is shared among the squads. Not only your provisions but everyone has to help with feeding the "pig" (squad machine gun). Or in a mortar platoon the mortar, bi-pods, tubes and whatever else.
I'd be pissed if I have to carry more stuff because the trans has to pack his medication and whatever else to keep him/her/it that way.
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I'm pretty sure that they can fight and would fight. But there still would be problems and trouble. You brought up important and legitimate points.
Add in confusion amongst the brothers and sisters in arms. I'm sure some (or in my opinion most) of them will not take it lightly when the chips are down and bullets are flying.
Humping food, water, and ammunition is shared among the squads. Not only your provisions but everyone has to help with feeding the "pig" (squad machine gun). Or in a mortar platoon the mortar, bi-pods, tubes and whatever else.
I'd be pissed if I have to carry more stuff because the trans has to pack his medication and whatever else to keep him/her/it that way.
I knew a guy who was going into the bush for training, and he's a bodybuilder. He asked what supplements can he take so he doesn't loose his gains. I explained that lack of nutirition, sleep, and weight lifting will affect his gains no matter what. Also, "ounces equal pounds". So anything he brings, adds weight. He understood and just dealt with the loss of gainz.
Another factor, saw a solder is captured. We report a female soldier is missing. And report this to all local assets. But, it's really a male, so local assets report that they don't know of any female soldier missing as they don't know what a tranny is.
Or bones found and no tags. Bones say male, but medical records state female, so this can't be the missing soldiers bones we found.
It just gets confusing if this is 1 truth that we change. Truths set a guide on how to measure things. Like what if 1 meter didn't = 3.28 feet. Say to a person with a mental health problem, 1 meter = 10 feet. Now you call in a fire mission for 800 meters away.
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I don't have problems with trans in the military as long as they don't have problems or cause trouble. If they can fight then let em in.
Problem I have is trans need medications and that's normally a disqualifier. Like people with diabetes can't be join due to needing insulin. The same is true for psychological disorders and suicidal tendencies. They should not get a pass for things others get rejected for. There may be military positions that may be more suitable like space force.
If a male soldier suffers with feelings that he is a female I don't think they should be kicked out. If they are undergoing medical treatments and medications which compromise their soldiering abilities (like Flapp pointed out) then I think there are valid reasons for them to not serve as soldiers, at least not combat soldiers. The military should not be entertaining the notion that men can be women though.
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If a male soldier suffers with feelings that he is a female I don't think they should be kicked out. If they are undergoing medical treatments and medications which compromise their soldiering abilities (like Flapp pointed out) then I think there are valid reasons for them to not serve as soldiers, at least not combat soldiers. The military should not be entertaining the notion that men can be women though.
What if a soldier feels that they are the General. They want to act like they are, want to wear the Generals rank, etc...Should this mental disorder be entertained? Everyone would call this soldier crazy right (rhetorical).
At what point does someones imagination/feelings should be abided by?
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The military was, before all this woke crap, always and foremost a fighting force.
You want to join the military, then meet their standard. They won't meet yours. You don't meet their standard, then step aside.
Call up the next man. Or woman.
It is that way because it's necessary to be that way. Cruel? yes. Brutal? yes. But it actually saves lives. No feelings needed out there where the bullets are flying. At you.
There is no such thing as "I think...." Everything needs to be crystal clear where everyone knows what to do and who is in charge.
Discipline and wokeness don't mix.
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The military was, before all this woke crap, always and foremost a fighting force.
You want to join the military, then meet their standard. They won't meet yours. You don't meet their standard, then step aside.
Call up the next man. Or woman.
It is that way because it's necessary to be that way. Cruel? yes. Brutal? yes. But it actually saves lives. No feelings needed out there where the bullets are flying. At you.
There is no such thing as "I think...." Everything needs to be crystal clear where everyone knows what to do and who is in charge.
Discipline and wokeness don't mix.
I was commissioned a 2LT in the AF after 4 years of college. i spent 75% of my 9 years on active duty performing computer, communications, command & control and INTEL jobs. That was almost always in office environments at bases in the USA. From a job viewpoint, I could have done the same thing as a civilian. In fact, the places I worked were about 50/50 military vs. civilian employees.
When i separated, I began doing almost the exact same job but as a civilian contractor. i actually participated in more onsite operations and live exercises while a contractor than before.
The point is, a great many jobs in the military today are very technical and don't involve "boots on the ground" fighting. Many positions in my organizations were converted to civilian or contracted out to save the government military salaries and all the benefits and retirement costs that entails.
What all that illustrates is there is nothing wrong with a transgender person serving their country as a civilian. That would shift the cost of any "gender-affirming care" to the individual and whatever healthcare plan they have from their employers.
There is no "right" to serve in the military. Nor is there a law that requires the military to accept anyone and everyone without regard for physical and mental problems they have or show a chance of having. I passed my physical exam until the day before I showed up at college. I was told my scholarship was canceled due to scoliosis. After 6 months more and receiving a waiver, my scholarship AND future Air Force commission were again mine.
I can't imagine how i was rejected based on the measurement of a curved spine, yet someone demonstrating a recognized psychological problem can be welcomed with open arms and the gift of free healthcare for their preexisting condition.
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If a male soldier suffers with feelings that he is a female I don't think they should be kicked out. If they are undergoing medical treatments and medications which compromise their soldiering abilities (like Flapp pointed out) then I think there are valid reasons for them to not serve as soldiers, at least not combat soldiers. The military should not be entertaining the notion that men can be women though.
Did you serve with any trans Soldiers?
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Did you serve with any trans Soldiers?
I don't think you have to serve with a transgender to understand that the military is no place for transgenders.
When Bill Clinton signed an Executive Order to allow gays to openly serve, he thought it would be a great PR move to visit a Navy carrier. After all, the trope that many sailors are gay would be more applicable to the new policy for the Navy.
After touring the ship and seeing the close quarters in which they eat, work, sleep and shower, he tapped the breaks and changed the policy to "Don't ask, Don't tell."
People forming an opinion with no direct experience need to hold their opinions until they actually experience what the military members must live with.
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Dunno why men want to become female and vice versa when...
we are all equal
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2025/03/09/protest-amplify-women-lgbtqia-voices-held-hawaii-state-capitol/
Jenny Caruso is a retired U.S. Army combat veteran spoke on the importance of women to the country.
“Everybody came from a woman. Women are 50%, probably more, of the population and we’re just as equal and capable as a man,” Caruso said. “I don’t [care] what the [Secretary of Defense] says, or what his thing is. I’ve commanded men in combat and we’ve all been fine.”
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txX2S80Dt8k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPtgqVAsgsQ
First they watered down Airborne School.
Now it seems they are doing the same for Ranger School.
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Dunno why men want to become female and vice versa when...
we are all equal
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2025/03/09/protest-amplify-women-lgbtqia-voices-held-hawaii-state-capitol/
Jenny Caruso is a retired U.S. Army combat veteran spoke on the importance of women to the country.
“Everybody came from a woman. Women are 50%, probably more, of the population and we’re just as equal and capable as a man,” Caruso said. “I don’t [care] what the [Secretary of Defense] says, or what his thing is. I’ve commanded men in combat and we’ve all been fine.”
I've had about as many female supervisors and unit commanders in the Air Force as i had male 'versions.'
My personal experience has been that the females are bullies who think everyone that works for them are just there to advance the female's career. Males, on the other hand, were more secure in their own capabilities and advancement possibilities making them more likely to promote and reward those who work for them.
At Langley AFB, this female major was working toward the next release of the software system she was in charge of. After a couple of hours hearing how the team just can't meet the arbitrary deadline she'd set (and briefed to her bosses), she screamed at them, "Every one of you should be arrested for defrauding the government! You didn't earn the salaries you were paid!" She also yelled, "You people are just trying to keep me from getting promoted!"
She came back years later to take over as the new commander of that organization. Thankfully, I had just jumped ship to become a contractor.
I also had a female section chief who told me to stop doing so much work, because she wasn't able to keep up with my progress for the morning briefs even though i tracked everything on a couple of giant marker boards.
At HQ PACAF, our LtC commander was looking at creating a new civilian position as a technical advisor. The civilian in my office worked for 3 months creating the position description and job qualifications for that position and was the top candidate for that position. About a month before the job was filled, we got a middle-age female civilian hired to work with us software developers and installers. She slowed everyone down trying to train her in order to take detailed notes as she was learning. She must have had 15 steno pads full of notes. However, she never had the notepad she needed to use for doing her job. She only carried the most recent one she was writing in. long story short, she apparently had a personal history with the LtC and was given that technical advisor's job! The least capable among us was now promoted ahead of everyone, including the guy who hired her into our office!
Politics.
Not saying these types of personalities are limited to females, but finding females that have the same effective leadership qualities as males hasn't been easy.
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I was just thinking, if this keeps up, just get rid of the military.
Just call it the Civilian Defense Force.
That way we can have all the colors of the rainbow, sing kumbaya while marching to battle, get depressed when we want to, and have feelings while the bullets fly.
Oh and instead of rucksacks, each "soldier" will get a little red wagon to tug along to house their trans medications, tampons, and blue hair dye.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txX2S80Dt8k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPtgqVAsgsQ
First they watered down Airborne School.
Now it seems they are doing the same for Ranger School.
My coworkers husband was in ranger school for the 1st women to pass. Cadre basically ignored them because they were told to. For those not in the military, a nail that sticks out gets hammered. So being female would def attract unwanted attention and would have constant "abuse". No different if you were the guy who kept messing up, short, overweight, any noticeable sign that you're standing out as an "individual". This is a huge hardship.
Could these women have passed? It's unknown, but this people the ability to question if they really deserved to graduate. Add in they lowered the standards just before they entered. It wasn't a male/female standard, but across the board as there's 1 standard for ranger school.
I worked with a woman who at the time was a sgt. SHe then went to ROTC and became an officer. She would complete the mens PT standard and come in 1st in her unit. She wasn't butch either. Athletic build chinese woman. We went to the gym a few times and although I was stronger, she was doing HIIT and it blew me away at her fitness level, endurance wise.
So which standard would a man who thinks he's a woman do? The mens PT or womens? Then can he enter into spec ops or other MOS's typically geared toward men. It would seem like they would be able to pick and chose, which means there is no "standard".
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What if a soldier feels that they are the General. They want to act like they are, want to wear the Generals rank, etc...Should this mental disorder be entertained? Everyone would call this soldier crazy right (rhetorical).
Get them mental health care, the same as I would suggest for people with gender dysphoria.
At what point does someones imagination/feelings should be abided by?
I draw the line at the point that the mental health issue prevents a soldier from doing their job effectively.
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Get them mental health care, the same as I would suggest for people with gender dysphoria.
I draw the line at the point that the mental health issue prevents a soldier from doing their job effectively.
A tranny can do their job effectively. It's the other indirect things that make it a mess. Refer to my examples in this post and the examples of others posted like diabetics.
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A tranny can do their job effectively. It's the other indirect things that make it a mess. Refer to my examples in this post and the examples of others posted like diabetics.
That is what I was referencing when I pointed to Flapp's post. You are right, prescription drug needs are a legitimate concern.
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Get them mental health care, the same as I would suggest for people with gender dysphoria.
I draw the line at the point that the mental health issue prevents a soldier from doing their job effectively.
Since you've never served, i'll educate you.
The evaluation criteria for the training and operational units are very objective. Since there's no objective test for mental health, that becomes a process rather than a single commander's or trainer's assessment.
It's easy to say "at the point that the mental health issue prevents a soldier from doing their job effectively." However, there is no standard test to identify whether or not that's the case for every individual. A transgender may be able to pass all the physical exams and training criteria, and they may place at the top of their class in whatever skills their job may require. But until they are actually doing the job, there's no accurate way to predictively assess whether someone -- anyone -- will be able to do their job going forward.
Once someone graduates basic training, ROTC or OTS and is on active duty, they are now afforded the same medical and mental health treatments as anyone else. They have been the beneficiary of months or years of training to do a job the military needs done, and others who are not dealing with their transgender issues have been excluded -- either from that job or the military entirely. Congress only appropriates enough money to support a finite number of people in a finite number of jobs. If a certain specialty field is over-manned, some will be assigned to jobs they may not be best suited for or will want.
Placing someone in a job with transgender issues and waiting to see IF they can do the job effectively is not good management. Eliminating the risk is smarter than giving everyone a chance and having to train/retrain replacements when the risks turn out negatively. That's not even getting into the damage to national security someone with mental health issues can cause -- e.g. Manning.
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Since you've never served, i'll educate you.
A pointless dig, hope it makes you feel superior.
It's easy to say "at the point that the mental health issue prevents a soldier from doing their job effectively."
Obviously the process is going to be more complicated than that. I was only drawing a line for a general conversation, actual policy would need to be much more detailed.
However, there is no standard test to identify whether or not that's the case for every individual. A transgender may be able to pass all the physical exams and training criteria, and they may place at the top of their class in whatever skills their job may require. But until they are actually doing the job, there's no accurate way to predictively assess whether someone -- anyone -- will be able to do their job going forward.
Once someone graduates basic training, ROTC or OTS and is on active duty, they are now afforded the same medical and mental health treatments as anyone else. They have been the beneficiary of months or years of training to do a job the military needs done, and others who are not dealing with their transgender issues have been excluded -- either from that job or the military entirely. Congress only appropriates enough money to support a finite number of people in a finite number of jobs. If a certain specialty field is over-manned, some will be assigned to jobs they may not be best suited for or will want.
Placing someone in a job with transgender issues and waiting to see IF they can do the job effectively is not good management. Eliminating the risk is smarter than giving everyone a chance and having to train/retrain replacements when the risks turn out negatively. That's not even getting into the damage to national security someone with mental health issues can cause -- e.g. Manning.
In an earlier reply I credited your explanation on this issue, maybe to missed it.
I had a friend in JROTC who was in very good shape, much better than I was. I went on to ROTC in college but he was denied entry into the military because he had a history of asthma. It sucked for him but it makes perfect sense that in a wartime situation, an asthma attack could really screw an operation up.
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[snip]
In an earlier reply I credited your explanation on this issue, maybe to missed it.
I had a friend in JROTC who was in very good shape, much better than I was. I went on to ROTC in college but he was denied entry into the military because he had a history of asthma. It sucked for him but it makes perfect sense that in a wartime situation, an asthma attack could really screw an operation up.
So, in that instance, your friend was denied entry into the military based on an existing health problem.
But you also said he should not be denied as long as he can do the job effectively.
Unless you allow him the chance to do the job, you'll never know for sure if he can or can not do the job.
Your comments are in conflict with each other. You can't do both -- deny a recruit based on an existing problem AND allow them to join to see if they can do the job.
Pick one.
This is why waivers exist. If your friend were going into a support field such as computers and communications that doesn't require perfect health, he could request a waiver. The service would do what they need to evaluate him using additional tests, documented history of sports or other physically demanding activities, and whether the ailment has increased or decreased over time (asthma often disappears after adulthood).
I was rejected due to a medical standard, but i received a waiver which allowed me to complete ROTC and be commissioned.
Again, experience demonstrates how the system actually works, not based on thought experiments, beliefs and assumptions.
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So, in that instance, your friend was denied entry into the military based on an existing health problem.
But you also said he should not be denied as long as he can do the job effectively.
Unless you allow him the chance to do the job, you'll never know for sure if he can or can not do the job.
Your comments are in conflict with each other. You can't do both -- deny a recruit based on an existing problem AND allow them to join to see if they can do the job.
Pick one.
This is why waivers exist. If your friend were going into a support field such as computers and communications that doesn't require perfect health, he could request a waiver. The service would do what they need to evaluate him using additional tests, documented history of sports or other physically demanding activities, and whether the ailment has increased or decreased over time (asthma often disappears after adulthood).
I was rejected due to a medical standard, but i received a waiver which allowed me to complete ROTC and be commissioned.
Again, experience demonstrates how the system actually works, not based on thought experiments, beliefs and assumptions.
Add in the tattoo policy. Say someone had a Nazi logo on their forehead. They wont' be able to join. When my uncle was drafted and was at the medical review, his classmate was there and is a haole guy. He had a Swastika on his underwear. They kicked him out. My uncle drank a quart of shoyu mixed with orange juice and got a 4F due to super high blood pressure.
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Add in the tattoo policy. Say someone had a Nazi logo on their forehead. They wont' be able to join. When my uncle was drafted and was at the medical review, his classmate was there and is a haole guy. He had a Swastika on his underwear. They kicked him out. My uncle drank a quart of shoyu mixed with orange juice and got a 4F due to super high blood pressure.
Each branch has their own tattoo policies.
In the USAF, the policy for piercings and tattoos has changed over the years. This is the 2023 guidance published for all Air Force members:
https://www.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/2023SAF/PolicyUpdates/dafman36-2903.pdf
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So, in that instance, your friend was denied entry into the military based on an existing health problem.
But you also said he should not be denied as long as he can do the job effectively.
Unless you allow him the chance to do the job, you'll never know for sure if he can or can not do the job.
Your comments are in conflict with each other. You can't do both -- deny a recruit based on an existing problem AND allow them to join to see if they can do the job.
Pick one.
This is why waivers exist. If your friend were going into a support field such as computers and communications that doesn't require perfect health, he could request a waiver. The service would do what they need to evaluate him using additional tests, documented history of sports or other physically demanding activities, and whether the ailment has increased or decreased over time (asthma often disappears after adulthood).
I was rejected due to a medical standard, but i received a waiver which allowed me to complete ROTC and be commissioned.
Again, experience demonstrates how the system actually works, not based on thought experiments, beliefs and assumptions.
You misinterpret what I mean by do a job effectively. If someone is having an asthma attack because of a lack of medication due to battlefield supply then they cannot do their job effectively. The same with someone undergoing sex change, if they are stable while on the meds but the meds get cut off will it affect their job performance?
I never said let people join just to see if they can do the job.
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Each branch has their own tattoo policies.
In the USAF, the policy for piercings and tattoos has changed over the years. This is the 2023 guidance published for all Air Force members:
https://www.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/2023SAF/PolicyUpdates/dafman36-2903.pdf
That's why I used the forehead as no branch would allow a forehead tattoo of a nazi logo.