2aHawaii
General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: QUIETShooter on August 31, 2025, 01:59:18 PM
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Governor and Mayor of Chicago do not want President Trump to help control the violence in Chicago, calling it an abuse of federal powers, unconstitutional, yada yada yada......
Not to mention embarrassing for these two clowns as it will show they have no control over their city.
So they're doing all these enaction of executive powers to stop Trump but one thing is missing:
Did these 2 asshats ever consider what the law abiding people in Chicago want? As public servants (which hardly any of them consider themselves that nowadays ::)) they should take their constituents concerns over their f*ckn egos.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/35-shot-5-dead-in-chicago-amid-trump-s-threat-to-deploy-national-guard/ar-AA1LAPHh?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=d33d987bfeac4dc8d57853bdf7a07478&ei=11
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Wow they are really tying themselves to an anchor here.
If Trump is successful in this endeavor and reintroduces peace and stability then it's lights out for the Democratic party
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I think it should be asked whether we trust the national guard to engage in the roll? They don't have the training of law enforcement officers, what happens when there is a use of force type situation? Would we have a Ruby Ridge type incident?
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I think it should be asked whether we trust the national guard to engage in the roll? They don't have the training of law enforcement officers, what happens when there is a use of force type situation? Would we have a Ruby Ridge type incident?
The NG was deployed at Ruby Ridge but the fatal, wrongful use of force was done by the FBI.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi
Lon Tomohisa Horiuchi (born June 9, 1954) is an American former Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) sniper and former United States Army officer who was involved in the 1992 Ruby Ridge standoff and 1993 Waco siege. In 1997, Horiuchi was charged with manslaughter for killing Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge, who was unarmed while carrying an infant child. The charges were later dropped due to Constitutional supremacy, granting federal officers immunity from actions taken in the scope of their practice.
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I think it should be asked whether we trust the national guard to engage in the roll? They don't have the training of law enforcement officers, what happens when there is a use of force type situation? Would we have a Ruby Ridge type incident?
Do you know what the National Guard is? Who are the members of the Guard?
The majority of National Guard soldiers and airmen hold a civilian job full-time
while serving part-time as a National Guard member.[4][5] These part-time guardsmen
are augmented by a full-time cadre of Active Guard & Reserve (AGR) personnel in both
the Army National Guard and Air National Guard, plus Army Reserve Technicians in the
Army National Guard and Air Reserve Technicians (ART) in the Air National Guard.
You know who comprise one of the largest groups of police recruits? Former active duty military, particularly those in policing jobs such as facility security and force protection.
You know who comprise the majority of National Guard members? Former active duty military.
I'd like to see a breakout list of full time occupations for the entire US National Guard.
So, not only are there security police/military police specialists within the National Guard performing the same law enforcement type roles as civilian law enforcement officers, many are also full time law enforcement in their regular jobs whether in a police force, sheriff's department, state police unit, investigative units, or federal agencies like the FBI, Secret Service, Immigration & Customs Enforcement, Border Patrol, Capitol Police Force, body guards, etc., etc. The skillsets will vary somewhat, but the basic skills are the same when it comes to weapons, self defense, subject control/submission, and so on.
It takes a narrow mind to assume that the entire National Guard has no current or previous law enforcement background. And based on some of the atrocities in the news, like this doctor who was shot to death by Cops after they tried to grab him INSIDE HIS HOME without a warrant, it seems like the bar for being "trained' as a LEO is set pretty damn low.
https://youtu.be/x2RjB-TT7DU
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Speaking of NG and law enforcement, HPD Chief Logan retired as The Adjutant General of the Hawaii National Guard before becoming HPD Chief.
https://www.pbshawaii.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Logan_BIO.pdf
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Do you know what the National Guard is? Who are the members of the Guard?
You know who comprise one of the largest groups of police recruits? Former active duty military, particularly those in policing jobs such as facility security and force protection.
You know who comprise the majority of National Guard members? Former active duty military.
I'd like to see a breakout list of full time occupations for the entire US National Guard.
So, not only are there security police/military police specialists within the National Guard performing the same law enforcement type roles as civilian law enforcement officers, many are also full time law enforcement in their regular jobs whether in a police force, sheriff's department, state police unit, investigative units, or federal agencies like the FBI, Secret Service, Immigration & Customs Enforcement, Border Patrol, Capitol Police Force, body guards, etc., etc. The skillsets will vary somewhat, but the basic skills are the same when it comes to weapons, self defense, subject control/submission, and so on.
It takes a narrow mind to assume that the entire National Guard has no current or previous law enforcement background. And based on some of the atrocities in the news, like this doctor who was shot to death by Cops after they tried to grab him INSIDE HIS HOME without a warrant, it seems like the bar for being "trained' as a LEO is set pretty damn low.
https://youtu.be/x2RjB-TT7DU
All I can say, is if this kind of outcome became representative of all interactions with the police in this country, we’d quickly run out of police.
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I served in the National Guard.
Yes, we are not trained in law enforcement but we do train to assist in riot control. When I was in the Guard we trained riot control tactics, which is part of our yearly ongoing training. Crowd control and security was our main training.
When deployed and used correctly, the Guard can assist and relieve LE of many duties so LE can be focused on the more critical tasks that need to be done.
Lots of people think the Guard is just a bunch of part time civilian warrior wannabees. Truth is that a large part of the Guard is comprised of former active duty personnel that brings years of experience to the Guard units.
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I served in the National Guard.
Yes, we are not trained in law enforcement but we do train to assist in riot control. When I was in the Guard we trained riot control tactics, which is part of our yearly ongoing training. Crowd control and security was our main training.
When deployed and used correctly, the Guard can assist and relieve LE of many duties so LE can be focused on the more critical tasks that need to be done.
Lots of people think the Guard is just a bunch of part time civilian warrior wannabees. Truth is that a large part of the Guard is comprised of former active duty personnel that brings years of experience to the Guard units.
Thanks for the info, and thanks for your service in the Guard!
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Chicago sold all their public metered parking to the arabs. The $ they spent on it, they made back in like 2 years.
Not only the actual revenue but also part of the deal was any metered stall thats closed due to a holiday, broken, parade, etc....they must pay what that daily estimated revenue would have been.
Yet crickets on the bad deal.
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Do you know what the National Guard is? Who are the members of the Guard?
You know who comprise one of the largest groups of police recruits? Former active duty military, particularly those in policing jobs such as facility security and force protection.
You know who comprise the majority of National Guard members? Former active duty military.
I'd like to see a breakout list of full time occupations for the entire US National Guard.
So, not only are there security police/military police specialists within the National Guard performing the same law enforcement type roles as civilian law enforcement officers, many are also full time law enforcement in their regular jobs whether in a police force, sheriff's department, state police unit, investigative units, or federal agencies like the FBI, Secret Service, Immigration & Customs Enforcement, Border Patrol, Capitol Police Force, body guards, etc., etc. The skillsets will vary somewhat, but the basic skills are the same when it comes to weapons, self defense, subject control/submission, and so on.
It takes a narrow mind to assume that the entire National Guard has no current or previous law enforcement background. And based on some of the atrocities in the news, like this doctor who was shot to death by Cops after they tried to grab him INSIDE HIS HOME without a warrant, it seems like the bar for being "trained' as a LEO is set pretty damn low.
What concerns me is not the guardsman's ability to shoot well or control a suspect well, rather it is going to be about the legal intricacies in how and when someone can be detained, when what types of force can be used, etc. Of course there are incidents of actual police who don't know these things well either but if something goes sideways, is the guard going to be judged by the same standard as an LEO or given more leeway given less training and experience?
No one here said the entire national guard has no current or previous law enforcement background so not sure where you are going with that.
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What concerns me is not the guardsman's ability to shoot well or control a suspect well, rather it is going to be about the legal intricacies in how and when someone can be detained, when what types of force can be used, etc. Of course there are incidents of actual police who don't know these things well either but if something goes sideways, is the guard going to be judged by the same standard as an LEO or given more leeway given less training and experience?
No one here said the entire national guard has no current or previous law enforcement background so not sure where you are going with that.
if military members can be instructed in wartime rules of engagement, the "intricacies" of how to augment the standing Leo forces should be no problem.
Of course, it takes someone who's been in the military to accurately judge how adept the military is at learning and following instructions.
Over the years, local law enforcement agencies in every state have become more and more militarized in they weaponry, protective gear, training and tactics. i don't understand how anyone can pretend the National Guard somehow represents a bigger risk to public safety than law enforcement given the difference between the two is smaller than ever.
The National Guard has been deployed every single year in times of natural disaster, civil unrest and public health crises. Nobody worries about the NG "law enforcement abilities" when governors call them up. But somehow, now that it's the federal government lead by Trump, suddenly the National Guard is untrained and untrustworthy?
Ridiculous -- and that's stating it mildly.
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Many National Guard members are also police officers. In my unit our platoon leader was a police officer and 2 members in my squad were police officers.
In the Chicago scenario currently unfolding that asshat mayor is trying to pass executive orders that will enable Chicago police officers to disobey orders to cooperate with federal agents and the National Guard. I wouldn't be surprised that there are Chicago police officers in the National Guard units. This would cause quite a dilemma for these officers.
I'm not sure if Trump is going to call up the Ilinois Guard units or units from other states.
edited to add: I just realized that Flapp already mentioned the fact that police officers also make up a large portion of National Guard members. My apologies Flapp for overlooking your posts.
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Many National Guard members are also police officers. In my unit our platoon leader was a police officer and 2 members in my squad were police officers.
In the Chicago scenario currently unfolding that asshat mayor is trying to pass executive orders that will enable Chicago police officers to disobey orders to cooperate with federal agents and the National Guard. I wouldn't be surprised that there are Chicago police officers in the National Guard units. This would cause quite a dilemma for these officers.
I'm not sure if Trump is going to call up the Ilinois Guard units or units from other states.
edited to add: I just realized that Flapp already mentioned the fact that police officers also make up a large portion of National Guard members. My apologies Flapp for overlooking your posts.
That's okay. Members tend to post replies to the most recent comments. You have to start from the beginning or from where you last stopped reading to see what others have already said.
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if military members can be instructed in wartime rules of engagement, the "intricacies" of how to augment the standing Leo forces should be no problem.
Of course, it takes someone who's been in the military to accurately judge how adept the military is at learning and following instructions.
Over the years, local law enforcement agencies in every state have become more and more militarized in they weaponry, protective gear, training and tactics. i don't understand how anyone can pretend the National Guard somehow represents a bigger risk to public safety than law enforcement given the difference between the two is smaller than ever.
The National Guard has been deployed every single year in times of natural disaster, civil unrest and public health crises. Nobody worries about the NG "law enforcement abilities" when governors call them up. But somehow, now that it's the federal government lead by Trump, suddenly the National Guard is untrained and untrustworthy?
Ridiculous -- and that's stating it mildly.
Indeed, it is a very learnable knowledge base, I only hope it is actually taught to a certain minimum for any Guardsmen tasked with such a mission.
The National Guard is commonly called up for natural disasters and large level protests, but not so often to enforce criminal law.
One would hope the Guard learned the lessons from the Kent State Massacre.
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Indeed, it is a very learnable knowledge base, I only hope it is actually taught to a certain minimum for any Guardsmen tasked with such a mission.
The National Guard is commonly called up for natural disasters and large level protests, but not so often to enforce criminal law.
One would hope the Guard learned the lessons from the Kent State Massacre.
NG does not do law enforcement under current titles. They assist law enforcement i.e. security after Lahaina fires, Big Island lava flows.
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Indeed, it is a very learnable knowledge base, I only hope it is actually taught to a certain minimum for any Guardsmen tasked with such a mission.
The National Guard is commonly called up for natural disasters and large level protests, but not so often to enforce criminal law.
One would hope the Guard learned the lessons from the Kent State Massacre.
The Kent State Shooting was 55 years ago. There's been nothing similar since.
Nearly all the current National Guard members weren't even born then. Average age of NG membership is 42.
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That Kent State incident was a disaster. Not only was the National Guard troops not up to the task, the decisions made and the results of that decisions has tainted the National Guard even to this day.
It is my belief that more scrutiny is placed now before calling up a Guard unit up for duty. Some Guard units are more fit to assist LE than others.
Just like all military organizations, units training proficiency is tied to their mission assignment.
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Firing on unarmed screeching hippies => not good
Firing on looting, burning, evil flying Antifa butt-monkeys => ?
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Since the NG has been deployed (going from memory)
0 murders
84% reduction in car jackings
46% reduction in assaults
There's more, but I can't remember.
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In my opinion the LEFT simply doesn't want to admit that legally armed citizens and citizen soldiers (National Guard) equals less crime.
Criminals are pukes looking for opportunity. When you deny them the opportunities (vulnerable society) then like the f*ckn cowards that they are, they will slink back into the sh*tholes they came from.
Guys like that mayor and governor of Chicago doesn't want to fix society's problems. If they do, then no money from Big Brother comes in so they can spend it on other things.
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Firing on unarmed screeching hippies => not good
Firing on looting, burning, evil flying Antifa butt-monkeys => ?
National Guard troops were being pelted by rocks. Orders to disperse were completely
ignored. When verbal orders failed, the NGs tried tear gas, but the canisters fell short
of the protestors and only forced them back a short distance. Additional verbal orders
to disperse were ignored or mocked.
The troops them moved in closer and tried the tear gas again. That's when the students
started throwing rocks.
After repeatedly failing to disperse the crowd, a group of 96 National Guard troops from
A Company and C Company, 145th Infantry, and Troop G, 107th Armored Cavalry, were
ordered to advance. The guardsmen had their weapons "locked and loaded" (according
to standard Ohio National Guard rules) and affixed with bayonets. Most carried M1 Garand
rifles, with some also carrying .45 handguns, a few carrying shotguns with No. 7 birdshot
and 00 buckshot[citation needed] munitions, and one officer carrying a 22 Beretta handgun.
[50] Before advancing, Company C was instructed to fire only into the air
and for only a single guardsman to fire. It is unknown whether the other two
National Guard groups received any instructions about firing.[45]
Twenty-eight National Guard soldiers fired about 67 rounds over 13 seconds,
killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom sustained
permanent paralysis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
With every failure the military experiences, they try to develop a list of lessons learned in order to not make the same mistakes in the future should similar circumstances arise.
As I said, this failure has not been repeated in over half a century. If anything, the exact opposite has been the norm as we watch rioters burn, destroy, injure and kill with little to no intervention on the part of LE or the military.
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Since the NG has been deployed (going from memory)
0 murders
84% reduction in car jackings
46% reduction in assaults
There's more, but I can't remember.
It is undeniable they are having a positive effect but their mission has a 30 day limit from what I understand. I hope we don't go right back to the old numbers when their deployment is done.
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a simple search would have told you otherwise...
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+long+is+national+guard+deployment+in+washington+dc
It is undeniable they are having a positive effect but their mission has a 30 day limit from what I understand. I hope we don't go right back to the old numbers when their deployment is done.
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other searches would have told you the rules of engagement and leo duties they can do
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/what-troops-in-washington-can-do/
a simple search would have told you otherwise...
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+long+is+national+guard+deployment+in+washington+dc
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along with many things that explain how and what their duties are in DC
https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/IF/PDF/IF11768/IF11768.1.pdf
but you would rather just assume what you know from your HPD experiences and what you assume...
other searches would have told you the rules of engagement and leo duties they can do
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/what-troops-in-washington-can-do/
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along with many things that explain how and what their duties are in DC
https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/IF/PDF/IF11768/IF11768.1.pdf
but you would rather just assume what you know from your HPD experiences and what you assume...
We choose truth over facts!
-- Resident Joe Biden
It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble.
It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.
-- Anonymous
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I wonder if the NG even has bullets. When 9/11 happened, the NG at the airport had empty rifles. 1 CO carried all the ammo in a backpack. THis is for HNL, IDK about other airports.
I will assume the FBI walking around have bullets.
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along with many things that explain how and what their duties are in DC
https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/IF/PDF/IF11768/IF11768.1.pdf
but you would rather just assume what you know from your HPD experiences and what you assume...
I made no assumptions. The 30 day thing came from the news. When reading further about the DC Home Rule Act I see it wasn't a specific limit on the guard rather the federal control of the DC Police. Guess I conflated two aspects of the story
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please show me where i said you were assuming the 30 days...
I made no assumptions. The 30 day thing came from the news. When reading further about the DC Home Rule Act I see it wasn't a specific limit on the guard rather the federal control of the DC Police. Guess I conflated two aspects of the story
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so you have nothing
got it...
please show me where i said you were assuming the 30 days...