2aHawaii

General Topics => Political Discussion => Topic started by: ren on September 23, 2025, 06:33:29 PM

Title: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: ren on September 23, 2025, 06:33:29 PM
https://www.khon2.com/local-news/gov-green-says-hed-sign-a-mandatory-motorcycle-helmet-law-if-it-gets-to-his-desk/

At Cycle City Hawaii, when customers buy a motorcycle, they’re also fitted for a helmet.

“It’s a personal choice,” said Khepera Ridley, Cycle City Hawaii sales manager. “We don’t wanna infringe on anyone’s personal choice if they want to or not, but for us at the shop, we highly encourage helmet use because we want our people to go out and have fun, return safely back home to their friends and family.”

That choice would change to being required if Gov. Green had his way. He said that if the legislature passed a mandatory helmet law for all motorcycle riders, he would sign it.

“I do understand that people like some independence, but the truth is, almost all of these fatalities, especially if it’s on bikes, motorbikes or motorcycles, if people are without a helmet, the likelihood of dying is much higher,” said Green.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Jwall_e808 on September 23, 2025, 09:03:08 PM
https://www.khon2.com/local-news/gov-green-says-hed-sign-a-mandatory-motorcycle-helmet-law-if-it-gets-to-his-desk/

At Cycle City Hawaii, when customers buy a motorcycle, they’re also fitted for a helmet.

“It’s a personal choice,” said Khepera Ridley, Cycle City Hawaii sales manager. “We don’t wanna infringe on anyone’s personal choice if they want to or not, but for us at the shop, we highly encourage helmet use because we want our people to go out and have fun, return safely back home to their friends and family.”

That choice would change to being required if Gov. Green had his way. He said that if the legislature passed a mandatory helmet law for all motorcycle riders, he would sign it.

“I do understand that people like some independence, but the truth is, almost all of these fatalities, especially if it’s on bikes, motorbikes or motorcycles, if people are without a helmet, the likelihood of dying is much higher,” said Green.


That's insane. Then he should have kids and adults wear seat belts in the back seat of a car or the bed of a truck. He is going  a whole different route with this traffic safety. And if he is referring to the kids that are riding reckless on electric bikes they should have a age requirement for those.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 23, 2025, 09:26:31 PM
On the one hand I figure that if you don't care about your life enough to wear a helmet then why should I care so much to force you to wear one.

On the other hand if a motorcyclist crashes and dies because no helmet was worn then traffic is screwed up for the rest of us for hours. Someone crashes and slides across all the lanes of the H1 a million people sit in traffic for hours burning fuel, losing money, missing flights/events and potentially lose a bunch of money to cover the costs of the investigation. That is a pretty decent argument to require a helmet even though it does feel like an infringement on the freedom to not have one.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 24, 2025, 09:17:23 AM
On the one hand I figure that if you don't care about your life enough to wear a helmet then why should I care so much to force you to wear one.

On the other hand if a motorcyclist crashes and dies because no helmet was worn then traffic is screwed up for the rest of us for hours. Someone crashes and slides across all the lanes of the H1 a million people sit in traffic for hours burning fuel, losing money, missing flights/events and potentially lose a bunch of money to cover the costs of the investigation. That is a pretty decent argument to require a helmet even though it does feel like an infringement on the freedom to not have one.

More laws please master. lol
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: hvybarrels on September 24, 2025, 09:57:19 AM
On the one hand I figure that if you don't care about your life enough to wear a helmet then why should I care so much to force you to wear one.

On the other hand if a motorcyclist crashes and dies because no helmet was worn then traffic is screwed up for the rest of us for hours. Someone crashes and slides across all the lanes of the H1 a million people sit in traffic for hours burning fuel, losing money, missing flights/events and potentially lose a bunch of money to cover the costs of the investigation. That is a pretty decent argument to require a helmet even though it does feel like an infringement on the freedom to not have one.

If traffic mitigation is the goal then they should allow lane splitting.
It would encourage more people to ride, and motorcycles take up far less space on the road than cars.
Also one of the most dangerous places for bikes is at a traffic light with people rolling up behind them.
All you can do is hope and pray they aren't looking at their phones and will stop like they are supposed to.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 24, 2025, 10:12:06 AM
If traffic mitigation is the goal then they should allow lane splitting.
It would encourage more people to ride, and motorcycles take up far less space on the road than cars.
Also one of the most dangerous places for bikes is at a traffic light with people rolling up behind them.
All you can do is hope and pray they aren't looking at their phones and will stop like they are supposed to.

In Taiwan, they allow mopeds to go past cars at a red light and there's about a 5 ft area that they can all accumulate in while the light is red.  I've seen easily 15 mopeds at this waiting area.

Our city is never serious about reducing traffic.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 24, 2025, 10:19:14 AM
Ban Phones.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Rocky on September 25, 2025, 09:59:00 AM
Happen to be in park in Moline (Quad cities) Illinois when they had a biker rally opposing mandatory helmet law.
THOUSANDS of bikes rolled out.
Must have watched that procession depart for over an hour.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: ren on September 25, 2025, 10:24:20 AM
More laws please master. lol

job security for them
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 25, 2025, 10:00:46 PM
More laws please master. lol

Might want to let the adults talk this one through since complex issues confuse you.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: ren on September 25, 2025, 10:15:16 PM
Might want to let the adults talk this one through since complex issues confuse you.

Will you have a table at the gunshow next month?
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on September 25, 2025, 10:41:17 PM
Will you have a table at the gunshow next month?

Why do you ask?

Should I set up a table with a banner reading "change my mind"?
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 26, 2025, 08:52:44 AM
Might want to let the adults talk this one through since complex issues confuse you.

How so?

Might want to let adults talk this one through since concepts of issues confuse you.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 26, 2025, 08:57:27 AM
Why do you ask?

Should I set up a table with a banner reading "change my mind"?

Those who know won't attempt it cause once you post/make up your mind, you won't admit being wrong. Proof is in the pudding. The banner should read:

"I'm wrong about X issue and won't admit it, even if you present factual data.  But you can try to change my mind and waste your time".
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 03, 2025, 12:12:24 PM
Those who know won't attempt it cause once you post/make up your mind, you won't admit being wrong. Proof is in the pudding. The banner should read:

"I'm wrong about X issue and won't admit it, even if you present factual data.  But you can try to change my mind and waste your time".

Troll harder daddy. You show no appreciation of the pros and cons of the issue of helmet laws so you clearly aren't here for anything else.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 03, 2025, 01:15:27 PM
Troll harder daddy. You show no appreciation of the pros and cons of the issue of helmet laws so you clearly aren't here for anything else.

You once again show that you don't know what a troll is. lol. This is too funny, keep going.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 08, 2025, 12:50:16 PM
You once again show that you don't know what a troll is. lol. This is too funny, keep going.


troll2
/trōl/
noun
1.
a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.
a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.
noun: troll; plural noun: trolls
Example: Changemyoil66
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 08, 2025, 08:54:48 PM

troll2
/trōl/
noun
1.
a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.
a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.
noun: troll; plural noun: trolls
Example: Changemyoil66
And now u know what one is. My post still stands. Lol

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 08, 2025, 10:41:47 PM
Might want to let the adults talk this one through since complex issues confuse you.
You might want to stop being condescending to anyone who calls you out on your comments.

You posted about freedom, saving money, reducing inconvenience on the roadway for others when an accident happens ... anything except committing to an actual yes/no opinion.

Adults weigh the options, look at the facts, and make a decision based on objective criteria, not "I don't want to sit in traffic if someone isn't wearing a helmet."  That's about as self-centered and unempathetic as i can imagine anyone being.

Have you ever owned and/or operated a motorcycle with an engine that's at least 250cc?

Do you have a motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license?

Have you taken a motorcycle safety course?

The reason I ask those questions is because i don't think you're taking this issue seriously at all.

I await your yes/no answers to the above.  For once, you don't have to ask Google for the answers.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 09, 2025, 08:25:14 AM


Adults weigh the options, look at the facts, and make a decision based on objective criteria, not "I don't want to sit in traffic if someone isn't wearing a helmet."  That's about as self-centered and unempathetic as i can imagine anyone being.


Some people cannot help not having any empathy toward others.  Another thing is if someone is hyper focused on a topic, when shown to be wrong, they won't accept it.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 09, 2025, 12:27:35 PM
You might want to stop being condescending to anyone who calls you out on your comments.

You posted about freedom, saving money, reducing inconvenience on the roadway for others when an accident happens ... anything except committing to an actual yes/no opinion.

Adults weigh the options, look at the facts, and make a decision based on objective criteria, not "I don't want to sit in traffic if someone isn't wearing a helmet."  That's about as self-centered and unempathetic as i can imagine anyone being.

Have you ever owned and/or operated a motorcycle with an engine that's at least 250cc?

Do you have a motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license?

Have you taken a motorcycle safety course?

The reason I ask those questions is because i don't think you're taking this issue seriously at all.

I await your yes/no answers to the above.  For once, you don't have to ask Google for the answers.

If CMO had actually called me out on one of my comments with something of substance I wouldn't have been condescending, but that's not what he did. He didn't take one side or the other, he didn't even bring into question any fact or opinion I made, he just started in with an insult. Remember my style, tit for tat.

Is there anything wrong with not picking one side or the other? Is there anything wrong with appreciating the strengths of the arguments on both sides of the issue?

Funny how you try to flip my argument about not backing up traffic for half the island for 4 hours to it somehow being about me not liking traffic. Maybe try a little more honest arguing here than having to strawman a point I made. Only you could turn an argument considering your fellow residents into a self centered one. But lets go with the self centered one, you are having a serious medical issue and are on your way to the hospital but because someone died due to a selfish decision to not wear a helmet now you may suffer actual harm as well.

I owned two bikes, a 600cc and a 650cc. I rode them daily, rain or shine, over the mountains and on the freeways. I took a motorcycle safety course as well. I always wore a helmet except for the rare occasion I had a passenger and then I gave them the helmet to wear.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 09, 2025, 01:06:23 PM
If CMO had actually called me out on one of my comments with something of substance I wouldn't have been condescending, but that's not what he did. He didn't take one side or the other, he didn't even bring into question any fact or opinion I made, he just started in with an insult. Remember my style, tit for tat.


SWOOOSSSHHHH many days later. hahahahhahahahha.Everytime u come back, it's very entertaining.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 09, 2025, 01:21:06 PM
If CMO had actually called me out on one of my comments with something of substance I wouldn't have been condescending, but that's not what he did. He didn't take one side or the other, he didn't even bring into question any fact or opinion I made, he just started in with an insult. Remember my style, tit for tat.

Is there anything wrong with not picking one side or the other? Is there anything wrong with appreciating the strengths of the arguments on both sides of the issue?

Funny how you try to flip my argument about not backing up traffic for half the island for 4 hours to it somehow being about me not liking traffic. Maybe try a little more honest arguing here than having to strawman a point I made. Only you could turn an argument considering your fellow residents into a self centered one. But lets go with the self centered one, you are having a serious medical issue and are on your way to the hospital but because someone died due to a selfish decision to not wear a helmet now you may suffer actual harm as well.

I owned two bikes, a 600cc and a 650cc. I rode them daily, rain or shine, over the mountains and on the freeways. I took a motorcycle safety course as well. I always wore a helmet except for the rare occasion I had a passenger and then I gave them the helmet to wear.
I assume you didn't live in Hawaii when you rode.  Otherwise, you'd have been hypocritically not wearing a helmet when you had a backseat passenger.

It's all definitive until you are inconvenienced by needing 2 helmets.  Then, risking backing up traffic in the event of your death is fine, since you won't be there to suffer in the gridlock you created.

If there had been a helmet law where you rode, would you have ignored the law and gone without a helmet when you had a passenger?

Whenever I rode, if I knew I might need a second helmet, I strapped it to my rear rack.  I had a helmet lock for when the bike was parked. 

When I was dating, I left a helmet with my girlfriend to use when I picked her up in case I forgot or didn't have time to go to my place on the way to hers.

Hawaii is the only state I ever lived in where helmets are not mandatory.  However, I always wore one because I needed to have one while on any military base.  Since I worked at Hickam, Pearl Harbor, Makalapa, and Camp Smith, and i routinely had to visit pretty much every installation on Oahu, it was a given I would need a helmet.

After awhile, it becomes more habit than choice. With more check marks in the "helmet benefits " column than the "bare head benefits" column, it really came down to whether I accept or reject common sense.

My first bike was a 650cc Special II from Yamaha. Next was a 700cc Honda Saber.  Last was an 1100cc Honda VT1100C2 Shadow ACE (American Classic Edition).

I still have the MC endorsement on my HI license.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 14, 2025, 12:29:43 PM
SWOOOSSSHHHH many days later. hahahahhahahahha.Everytime u come back, it's very entertaining.

You are very easily entertained. Do you sniff your own turds as well?
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 14, 2025, 12:36:29 PM
I assume you didn't live in Hawaii when you rode.  Otherwise, you'd have been hypocritically not wearing a helmet when you had a backseat passenger.

It's all definitive until you are inconvenienced by needing 2 helmets.  Then, risking backing up traffic in the event of your death is fine, since you won't be there to suffer in the gridlock you created.

If there had been a helmet law where you rode, would you have ignored the law and gone without a helmet when you had a passenger?

Whenever I rode, if I knew I might need a second helmet, I strapped it to my rear rack.  I had a helmet lock for when the bike was parked. 

When I was dating, I left a helmet with my girlfriend to use when I picked her up in case I forgot or didn't have time to go to my place on the way to hers.

Hawaii is the only state I ever lived in where helmets are not mandatory.  However, I always wore one because I needed to have one while on any military base.  Since I worked at Hickam, Pearl Harbor, Makalapa, and Camp Smith, and i routinely had to visit pretty much every installation on Oahu, it was a given I would need a helmet.

After awhile, it becomes more habit than choice. With more check marks in the "helmet benefits " column than the "bare head benefits" column, it really came down to whether I accept or reject common sense.

My first bike was a 650cc Special II from Yamaha. Next was a 700cc Honda Saber.  Last was an 1100cc Honda VT1100C2 Shadow ACE (American Classic Edition).

I still have the MC endorsement on my HI license.

No, I was in Hawaii all the times I rode.

I gave my helmet to my passenger because I didn't usually carry around two helmets and since I was in control of the bike I had a better chance of anticipating a crash and reacting than the passenger so I gave them the helmet to give them an increased chance of survival. Plus it is simple chivalry. If I knew I was going to give someone a ride I always brought a second helmet. When I didn't have a second helmet the ride was short and on surface streets. I think maybe 2-3 times I gave my helmet to a passenger and it was driving someone to their car on the UH college campus.



Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 14, 2025, 02:01:28 PM
No, I was in Hawaii all the times I rode.

I gave my helmet to my passenger because I didn't usually carry around two helmets and since I was in control of the bike I had a better chance of anticipating a crash and reacting than the passenger so I gave them the helmet to give them an increased chance of survival. Plus it is simple chivalry. If I knew I was going to give someone a ride I always brought a second helmet. When I didn't have a second helmet the ride was short and on surface streets. I think maybe 2-3 times I gave my helmet to a passenger and it was driving someone to their car on the UH college campus.

You didn't answer the question I asked.  What does being in HI have to do with what I asked?

"If there had been a helmet law where you rode, would you have ignored the law and gone without a helmet when you had a passenger?"

Do you have dyslexia?  Some other physical or mental defect?  Just wondering if your lack of reading skills is immutable, or if you're just lazy.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 14, 2025, 03:07:00 PM
You didn't answer the question I asked.  What does being in HI have to do with what I asked?

"If there had been a helmet law where you rode, would you have ignored the law and gone without a helmet when you had a passenger?"

Do you have dyslexia?  Some other physical or mental defect?  Just wondering if your lack of reading skills is immutable, or if you're just lazy.

You said you assumed I wasn't in Hawaii, so I corrected your false assumption. Why do you then question it's relevance?

Would I have ignored the law? In limited situations such as the one I mentioned yeah, probably. Guess what else I did on a motorcycle.... I rode over the speed limit a few times too. Are you going to then imply if I speed even once I cannot recognize the need for speed enforcement?

Do you start fights with everyone in this way for fun or do you lack the ability to have a non-confrontational discussion about the pros and cons of helmets? You can't even seen to recognize the benefit of wearing a helmet has for the rest of society irrespective of whether you support the law or not. On the plus side, you managed to remain civil till page 2, quite the record for you.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 14, 2025, 03:41:02 PM
You said you assumed I wasn't in Hawaii, so I corrected your false assumption. Why do you then question it's relevance?

Would I have ignored the law? In limited situations such as the one I mentioned yeah, probably. Guess what else I did on a motorcycle.... I rode over the speed limit a few times too. Are you going to then imply if I speed even once I cannot recognize the need for speed enforcement?

Do you start fights with everyone in this way for fun or do you lack the ability to have a non-confrontational discussion about the pros and cons of helmets? You can't even seen to recognize the benefit of wearing a helmet has for the rest of society irrespective of whether you support the law or not. On the plus side, you managed to remain civil till page 2, quite the record for you.
I don't consider this a fight.  If you do, then that's an admission you are unable to hold up your end of the discussion without a LOT more effort than I require.

I never considered facing a 2 MPH breeze "fighting the wind."  I guess you feel like my responses are the equivalent of a hurricane!   :popcorn:

As for your answer, you admit that you won't wear a mandatory helmet if you can rationalize a reason not to.  So much for the safety argument for wearing a helmet.  If you crash that one time you choose to break the helmet law, you are now the dumbass who's tying up traffic and costing people money.  Hypocritical.   :geekdanc:
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 16, 2025, 01:22:42 PM
I don't consider this a fight.  If you do, then that's an admission you are unable to hold up your end of the discussion without a LOT more effort than I require.
I never considered facing a 2 MPH breeze "fighting the wind."  I guess you feel like my responses are the equivalent of a hurricane!   :popcorn:

That maturity of yours vanished amazingly quickly.


Quote
As for your answer, you admit that you won't wear a mandatory helmet if you can rationalize a reason not to.  So much for the safety argument for wearing a helmet.  If you crash that one time you choose to break the helmet law, you are now the dumbass who's tying up traffic and costing people money.  Hypocritical.   :geekdanc:

My saying I would drive a passenger around campus doing 15mph doesn't invalidate an argument for wearing helmets while doing 60mph on a freeway.
You do yoga by chance? You sure are good at stretching logic.

You can't even defeat the argument that a helmet law would serve the social good, you can only try to find an example of when I would have disobeyed, thereby making it a personal attack against me to distract from your lack of rebuttal of the argument I put forth.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 16, 2025, 01:33:42 PM
That maturity of yours vanished amazingly quickly.


My saying I would drive a passenger around campus doing 15mph doesn't invalidate an argument for wearing helmets while doing 60mph on a freeway.
You do yoga by chance? You sure are good at stretching logic.

You can't even defeat the argument that a helmet law would serve the social good, you can only try to find an example of when I would have disobeyed, thereby making it a personal attack against me to distract from your lack of rebuttal of the argument I put forth.
so, instead of an answer that follows my reasoning, you create an example of only doing 15mph on campus (not what I asked), and then play the helpless victim claiming I'm attacking you personally and not your lame, illogical ideas and words.

Typical.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 16, 2025, 01:40:49 PM
so, instead of an answer that follows my reasoning, you create an example of only doing 15mph on campus (not what I asked), and then play the helpless victim claiming I'm attacking you personally and not your lame, illogical ideas and words.

Typical.

Again, you still didn't rebut the point I made, you act as if someone not following a traffic rule once justifies not having the traffic rule. Admit it, you can't refute the fact that motorcyclists wearing helmets is in the interest of the community.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 16, 2025, 01:58:52 PM
Again, you still didn't rebut the point I made, you act as if someone not following a traffic rule once justifies not having the traffic rule. Admit it, you can't refute the fact that motorcyclists wearing helmets is in the interest of the community.
"you act as if" -- not factual, just your feeling.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 16, 2025, 02:38:02 PM
Again, you still didn't rebut the point I made, you act as if someone not following a traffic rule once justifies not having the traffic rule. Admit it, you can't refute the fact that motorcyclists wearing helmets is in the interest of the community.

You sound like our anti 2a politicians and "best interest".  Once can make up anything and find a "best interest".  Lets ban forks, this will cause people to eat slower and thus reducing choking and overeating.  Thus it's in the interest of the community as a choking person won't need medical attention and an ambulance wont' hold up traffic when parked outside their home.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2025, 06:02:32 PM
"you act as if" -- not factual, just your feeling.

This is an ideological argument, not some statistics based case. You didn't make any fact based arguments either. I pointed out the pros and cons and you just can't help but argue, ignoring a particular pro of helmet laws. I can certainly show you data showing helmets increase your likelihood of surviving a motorcycle crash if you like but so far all you tried to do was make my argument of not screwing up traffic for everyone into a personal dislike of traffic.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 21, 2025, 06:05:46 PM
You sound like our anti 2a politicians and "best interest".  Once can make up anything and find a "best interest".  Lets ban forks, this will cause people to eat slower and thus reducing choking and overeating.  Thus it's in the interest of the community as a choking person won't need medical attention and an ambulance wont' hold up traffic when parked outside their home.

If you read everything I posted you will see that I never said we should have a helmet law, I only acknowledged the pros of a helmet law.

"best interest of the community" applies to lots of things, excessive noise, limits on street parking, burning trash in your back yard, banning drunk driving, etc etc etc.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 22, 2025, 09:13:08 AM
If you read everything I posted you will see that I never said we should have a helmet law, I only acknowledged the pros of a helmet law.

"best interest of the community" applies to lots of things, excessive noise, limits on street parking, burning trash in your back yard, banning drunk driving, etc etc etc.

Did I say that you said that?  Are you begining to imagine things again?  You've been better recently.

"best interest" can be used for anything, like I posted about already.  You're not stating anything new.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 22, 2025, 10:40:58 AM
If you read everything I posted you will see that I never said we should have a helmet law, I only acknowledged the pros of a helmet law.

"best interest of the community" applies to lots of things, excessive noise, limits on street parking, burning trash in your back yard, banning drunk driving, etc etc etc.
Did I say that you said that?  Are you begining to imagine things again?  You've been better recently.

"best interest" can be used for anything, like I posted about already.  You're not stating anything new.
He also never said we should not have helmet laws.

This is his MO:   (1) don't commit to either side;  (2) lecture in favor of on the side that's opposite what the majority thinks -- state why it's wrong to be on the majority                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              side; (3) argue no matter which side someone you're arguing with takes.

Simple
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 22, 2025, 10:56:00 AM
He also never said we should not have helmet laws.

This is his MO:   (1) don't commit to either side;  (2) lecture in favor of on the side that's opposite what the majority thinks -- state why it's wrong to be on the majority                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              side; (3) argue no matter which side someone you're arguing with takes.

Simple

You left out

Optional: Add in things that didn't happen.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 22, 2025, 12:13:35 PM
You left out

Optional: Add in things that didn't happen.
That's not left out.  His lectures and arguments include that and much, much more including moving goal posts, reframing the topic to suit his argument, analogies that are totally irrelevant, lack off credible sources to back up his "facts", and so on.

I just didn't spend time listing them all individually.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 22, 2025, 03:21:25 PM
Did I say that you said that?  Are you begining to imagine things again?  You've been better recently.

I didn't say you said that. Are you beginning to imagine things again?


Quote
"best interest" can be used for anything, like I posted about already.  You're not stating anything new.

In otherwords you recognize the weakness of your argument  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 22, 2025, 03:25:48 PM
He also never said we should not have helmet laws.

This is his MO:   (1) don't commit to either side;  (2) lecture in favor of on the side that's opposite what the majority thinks -- state why it's wrong to be on the majority                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              side; (3) argue no matter which side someone you're arguing with takes.

Simple

Not sure why objectivity is such a foreign concept to you. Maybe it is due to your need to argue with anything I say? It wouldn't matter which side I argue for anyway, you would take a contrary position just to argue. You couldn't even address my point directly, you had to make it personal.

Not everything needs a committed position and even then I can have a committed position and still recognize the strong arguments on the other side of my position. Maybe stop jumping to the conclusion that just because I recognize the arguments of the other side I am on that side or undecided.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 22, 2025, 03:28:55 PM
Not sure why objectivity is such a foreign concept to you. Maybe it is due to your need to argue with anything I say? It wouldn't matter which side I argue for anyway, you would take a contrary position just to argue. You couldn't even address my point directly, you had to make it personal.

Not everything needs a committed position and even then I can have a committed position and still recognize the strong arguments on the other side of my position. Maybe stop jumping to the conclusion that just because I recognize the arguments of the other side I am on that side or undecided.

An objective person would state their objective opinion.  That's not you.  If you can't form an opinion, then apparently your objectivity is very limited to just arguing with no purpose in mind.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 24, 2025, 11:01:21 AM
An objective person would state their objective opinion. 

Wrong. A good reporter gives you the facts of a story without weighing in on the issue. If a war correspondent reported finding 20 bodies from a genocide grave but doesn't say "genocide is bad" in their story do you conclude they have no opinion or are not being objective?

Quote
If you can't form an opinion, then apparently your objectivity is very limited to just arguing with no purpose in mind.

Recognizing both sides of an issue is its own purpose.

Here is a novel thought, if you actually wanted my opinion on the issue, why not just ask? Instead you assume I have no opinion and then proceed to argue three pages over your silly assumption.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 24, 2025, 11:06:56 AM
Wrong. A good reporter gives you the facts of a story without weighing in on the issue. If a war correspondent reported finding 20 bodies from a genocide grave but doesn't say "genocide is bad" in their story do you conclude they have no opinion or are not being objective?

Recognizing both sides of an issue is its own purpose.

Here is a novel thought, if you actually wanted my opinion on the issue, why not just ask? Instead you assume I have no opinion and then proceed to argue three pages over your silly assumption.


Are you a reporter?  We know what you're not and that's HPD as you've never confirmed it.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 24, 2025, 11:13:24 AM

Are you a reporter?  We know what you're not and that's HPD as you've never confirmed it.

Is that your best argument? A suggestion that unless I am a professional reporter I am unable to understand basic journalistic objectivity?

I'll remember next time you complain about a biased media and point out that you aren't a reporter...
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 24, 2025, 05:16:11 PM
Is that your best argument? A suggestion that unless I am a professional reporter I am unable to understand basic journalistic objectivity?

I'll remember next time you complain about a biased media and point out that you aren't a reporter...


SWOOOOOSSSHHHHHHHH
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: ren on October 24, 2025, 08:55:14 PM
They should pass helmet laws for newborns because it sounds like someone got dropped when they were delivered.
Title: Re: so if helmet laws are invasive...
Post by: eyeeatingfish on October 28, 2025, 12:21:53 PM
They should pass helmet laws for newborns because it sounds like someone got dropped when they were delivered.

They didn't have one in his size.