2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: 2aHawaii on August 05, 2010, 01:46:33 PM
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Just like the title states, what do you think the best scope is at those three price points? $200, $300, and $400.
I am looking for the clearest and most reliable. It doesn't need to have the highest zoom or illumination. Just the basics.
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Bushnell Elite 3200. 10x40, mil-dot reticle, 1/4 minute turrets. Fantastic piece of glass, well under $300.
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The Meuller 8.5x25 scope that I have been using is pretty good. It does start to get fuzzy and dim after 18x. The top covers encase target turrets that can be rezeroed by loosening set screws. So far it's been good at keeping it's zero even with my heaviest recoiling loads(over 500 rounds). The adjustable objective is a little hard to work because it is in the front of the scope and you really gotta mess with it to get zero parallax. I have used it to shoot 600yrds and can live with it.
One of the guys at the range said that he had tried those too but zero would wander after a while, but they do have a lifetime return. He said he sent it in and they sent a new one, but that one, after a while, had similar issues.
All in all I think it's a pretty good variable power scope for the price(iirc was around $300).
I would say I may have got lucky and got a good one, but thus far I have been impressed by it.
I have just picked up a new Sightron SIII 20x42 fixed power. I have only been able to take it to the range once and I am not comfortable with reviewing this scope fully yet. I did a fast comparison with my brothers luepold mkiv 8x20. One thing I can say is that for a scope that costs half of a mkiv leupold I was impressed. Image quality was very sharp, and just slightly dimmer than the leupold. I want to shoot it at a f-class match before I draw a full opinion on th SII. It was about $600 tho.
What did you want to use the scope for? Long range, tactical, plinking?
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Like hear one funny story?
This guy we shoot with at the range had a older leupold varible power 8 to 20, I think it was one of their hunting models. Well any way my brother was shooting his Rock River AR and he let the guy try it out. Now, this AR has one of the sweetest triggers on any AR I have seen, our buddy thought so too. But this rifle has the most crappy scope on it! The guy says, "hey, I got a scope for you to try." Then he comes out with this leupy. He had the factory put target knobs on it, looks very tactical, and damn near brand new, but the reason he doesn't like it is the retical is too fine for him to see.
Now the funny part.
He says, "if you want it, take it for $300."
I hate my brother, he always finds those good deals! Haha
If you can find a deal like that, that would be the way to go. ;)
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Haha, great for your brother.
I'm really looking for a scope I can go huting with (even though I may never go hunting). The fixed 10x Bushnell Elite 3200 sounds like a great scope but may be to high power for hunting. Now that I look at my requirements more, I should probably get a mildot or BDC reticle.
Does anyone know what the difference between the Bushnell 3200 and 4200 lines are? Is it worth the jump in price? The only difference I can see is 95% light transmission vs 90%. Would that be noticable?
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I've shot with my 3200 in relatively low light (late afternoon on a cloudy day) and never noticed any image degradation. If you make a habit of hunting during civil twilight that 5% might be worth it.
Mildots are really a pain to use. First you need a good estimate of the size of your target. Then there's math to be done that tells you how far away said target probably is. Then you have to make adjustments to your scope based on that math. Finally you get around to firing. Unless you've got a calculator-brain, carrying a laser rangefinder actually SAVES time even though it means juggling your grip on the gun.
I've been enamored with the idea of BDC reticles. Shepherd, in particular, makes one that I love the idea of, calibrated for M2 ball. When Chuck Taylor was here for the sniper class, I asked him about it. His comment was succinct: "too busy."
My father-in-law has hunted since he was a child in the Dakotas, everything from prairie dogs to elk. He is now a geezer in Texas, where pigs are considered a nuisance animal and are exempt from just about every hunting law. He's friends with several ranchers who beg him to come and eradicate the hog populations on their property. Over the years, he's developed some pretty strong ideas about what works effectively and reliably. When it comes to hunting scopes for hogs, he favors fixed 4x40. A low power scope with a large objective actually provides a little bit of light amplification, extending his hunting time past nautical twilight! And given the size of hogs and the terrain in which they like to roam, it's a rare thing to get a shot at one too far away for a 4 power to be effective. Anyway, a summary of Little Eddie's thoughts on scopes can be found here (http://wildboarclub.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=347).
I did recently help a family who had inherited a sporterized m1903 that the great-grandfather had used as a hunting rifle. It had a fixed 4-power scope with a fairly small objective. With that gun and M2 ball, we were able to approach MOA at 100 yards, and to consistently hit the 200 and 300 yard steel. The 300 required a little hold-over, no more. We didn't have line-of-sight to the 440, unfortunately.
Anyway, my general view on svopes is that "less is more." I favor fixed over variable power, and the lowest magnification that will work for the job. I bought the 10x Elite specifically for that Chuck Taylor class, when we were to be shooting out to 600 yards. I think I've posted the results elsewhere on this forum, but suffice to say that I was the most under-equipped person there in every sense of the word yet was a solid middle-of-the-pack performer at every distance.
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One of the biggest problems with BDC reticules (and BDC type turret knobs) is that you are stuck having to use one type of load, at a certain elevation above sea level. If you decide to try another weight bullet or go hunting at 5000 ft. the BDC would be inaccurate.
An other way is to use your mil dots. If you know that 1 mil = 3.438 minutes of angle (moa), and you know your come ups, you can estimate which mil dot corresponds to what yardage.
Or you could just get a MIL/MIL scope and figure every thing in MILs... =p
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+1 for the Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40, mine is the Mil-Dot w/ turrets. Their customer service is quick and friendly. Low-Light is better than most in the price range.
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SWFA's "Super Sniper" line up.
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SWFA's "Super Sniper" line up.
I've heard that the clarity isn't that great on the lower Super Snipers but is much better on the 10x HD and the 3-9x. If that's the case, it looks like that Bushnell 10x may be a best buy.
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Depends on what you're comparing it too. I haven't seen through the newer Bushnell's, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison. Though I have looked through equally priced scopes (Millet, cheaper/older Bushnell's, Leapers, etc) and honestly the glass is a lot better then what you would expect for the money. Granted it's not comparable to a Nightforce or S&B, but that is in a totally different ball park.
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After looking around a bit, I keep hearing that the Zeiss Conquest scopes are the clearest you can get for that $400 mark.
I really need to try out some higher end scopes to see what I'd be buying. I really don't need the extra elevation or fancy reticles. Just a good solid scope with clear optics and repeatable adjustments.
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On the bulletin board at Kokohead there is a FS ad with a bunch of scopes in your magnification range. I'm sorry I didn't snap a pic of the ad, I didn't think of it till now. Had some Bushnells and even a Zeiss IIRC. Prices were very good, if the condition is right. You should go check it out. Or next time I am there I will try and get that info for you.
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I won't be able to make it out to the range for a while :( so if you get a chance, I'd appreciate a pic or the info.
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No prob. I'll have to get that next weekend tho. Sorry I didn't think of it while I was there Sunday.
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There is a cool through-scope picture thread (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1457218&page=1) over at the Sniper's Hide.
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That thread is the closest I'll get to looking through scopes like USO, S&B, Nightforce, etc :-[
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Now I am addicted to looking at scopes, just don't know if I'll ever buy one. After looking for many more hours, I've come to the conclusion that the Nikon Monarchs are comperable to the Bushnell Elite 4200 series. For a little bit less, and with mil-dots, I can pick up a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42SF (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000OZY5MK/?tag=2ahawaii-20). Does anyone have any thoughts on the Nikon Monarch line?
And can anyone tell me what more expensive would get me?
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That's a SFP scope right?
Honestly I like the concept for FFP better. Granted it might not have much use to a static range shooter, but for the ones competing, or even the guys whose lives depend on it, it seems like a much smarter investment.
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Yes it's a SFP. I do like FFPs better but they seem to double the price except if you go for something made in China like the Falcon Menace.
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Nikon Monarch 4-16x42SF. Does anyone have any thoughts on the Nikon Monarch line?
I don't have any experience with the Monarch, but I do have experience with the Buckmaster(on sale now BTW) (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=123107). This is one good scope for a good price! It is a 1/8th MOA click value, so it is a precise adjustments at range. However this can be annoying because of the many clicks necessary to dial up. But the knobs are re settable to zero and very repeatable. Also (the one I seen at the time) came with interchangeable external target knobs if that's what you prefer. Optics are very clear and fairly bright for a scope in this mid price range.
I can only assume the Monarch line is as good or better.
Yes it's a SFP. I do like FFPs better but they seem to double the price except if you go for something made in China like the Falcon Menace.
FFP scopes are the bomb for ranging, but be sure to look at your reticules before you buy one. Because it is FFP the reticule will be magnified at the same rate as the sight picture. On some scopes I've seen the thick MIL DOTS and cross hairs blocked out a lot of the sight picture. (kinda irritating, and not to great for precision shooting) Stay away from china chepo scopes. In my experience you'll only be disappointed, and end up spending again. Get the best you can afford. Buy once, cry once. ;D
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How about scout scopes? Need something besides a red dot to mount on my ultimak railed AKs. Right now I'm considering a Leatherwood LER27x32 (for $177) but I'm open to suggestions.
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I've read some decent reviews about the Leatherwood on ARFcom. What's your price range first? That will narrow down a lot of the possibilities.
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For hunting? I have a late 70s early 80s 1.5x4 (or close to that) Burris that has served well in conditions of limited visibility. The idea of 1.5x back then, was that it provided a true 1x. Also have a 3x9 Conquest on my Sako 75. Its never been to the field, but in that particular setup, for me it has an ideal eye relief. The #4 reticule comes up quickly and naturally. OTOH I still prefer a 4x for the real world--the higher power of the Conquest simplifies zeroing, but I hate its bulk. Would have been happier with a straight 4x, like the compact Leo.
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I've read some decent reviews about the Leatherwood on ARFcom. What's your price range first? That will narrow down a lot of the possibilities.
Under $200. Also thinking about russian glass for my sidemounts, mebbe a posp 4X. Whadayathink?
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Under $200. Also thinking about russian glass for my sidemounts, mebbe a posp 4X. Whadayathink?
Everybody loves POSPs, especially the 4x. I hear good things about the Kobra too. But since you have the Ultimak, why not get an aimpoint? Or you could sell the Ultimak and finance the POSP. Options, options :)
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Honestly there isn't a whole lot of options under $200, though I do know and respect where you are coming from as I was once there myself.
It's a little over your budget, though you can try the Millet DMS-1. It's a 1-4 variable optic w/ an illuminated donut reticule (though in all honesty the illumination isn't that great. On full power it is still washed out in bright sun light). Another option would be Primary Arms. They make "knock offs", though their products are a little more robust then the other knock offs that plague the market as well.
As hard as it is, the phrase "you get what you pay for" parallels products in the shooting industry.
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No experience, but I've also heard that the Vortex Strikefire is a decent aimpoint knock off.
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One of the items on my newest revised wishlist ::) is the millet tactical scope TRS-1. It's no more than $350
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I got some great glass up for sale on here with a quick release mount for $400.
Just saying! ;D
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Can't believe I didn't think of this (http://blog.andersonville.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/wine-glass-pour.jpg) sooner.