2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bota-CS1 on January 19, 2013, 04:19:28 PM
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I'm in the market for a good reliable HD semi auto shotgun. While I most familiar with the remington line (1100 and 1187) to be specific, I'm open to your guy's opions and experiences. There are only a few features I know for sure it would need to have:
1) Reliability & Dependability - since it's an HD gun, it needs to be near 100%
2) Semi-Auto - Going to train the wifey to use as well, so it needs to be softer recoiling than a pump
3) Easy to operate - shouldn't be overly complicated to switch from 00 to slug.
4) I've settled on 12ga since ammo is widely available for it - doesn't matter if it's 2 3/4 or 3"
5) I've got a budget of around 1k
It's going to be stricly an HD gun, so I wouldn't use it for hunting or anything else. I'm open to any maker and model.
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Benelie makes some sweet shotguns i wish i could afford right now. maybe you could check them out
my opinion, buy the best that you can afford since it is being used for self defense.
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I am deeply in love with my dads remington versamax.
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I'm in the market for a good reliable HD semi auto shotgun. While I most familiar with the remington line (1100 and 1187) to be specific, I'm open to your guy's opions and experiences. There are only a few features I know for sure it would need to have:
1) Reliability & Dependability - since it's an HD gun, it needs to be near 100%
2) Semi-Auto - Going to train the wifey to use as well, so it needs to be softer recoiling than a pump
3) Easy to operate - shouldn't be overly complicated to switch from 00 to slug.
4) I've settled on 12ga since ammo is widely available for it - doesn't matter if it's 2 3/4 or 3"
5) I've got a budget of around 1k
It's going to be stricly an HD gun, so I wouldn't use it for hunting or anything else. I'm open to any maker and model.
I've got a Benelli M1 Super 90 & Remington 1100. Both are great, but neither would be my first choice for an HD shotgun. Semi-auto's can be too picky with ammo and that's not 100% reliability (close isn't good enough in a HD situation).
If you're not completely set on a semi, consider a pump action for HD. Maybe an Remington 870, or Mossberg 500 or 590. Here's why (per your required features):
1) Reliability is better. With a pump you can operate/clear the action without taking your eyes off the threat. Semi's just require more manipulation making things more difficult under stress.
2) Recoil can be managed with choices in stocks, pads, and ammo.
3) It is simpler and easier to operate/maintain than a semi auto.
4) There are more ammo choices with a pump, including Low/Reduced recoil, which does not reliably cycle a semi. (Most semi's require full power 3" ammo.)
5) You can get 2 Mossberg 500's or basic 870's for 1k and still have some left over for ammo.
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I have a Mossberg 930 SPX, and I like it. If Mesa Tactical would get off their asses and bring an Urbino stock to market for it like they've been promising to do for about a year, I'd like it even more. As it is now, the LOP is pretty long, probably too long if your wife is short. My girlfriend is 5'0", and there's no way she could use it. For more money, you can get a little bit better (I'm told) shotgun in the form of FN Herstal's police shotgun. For more money still, you can get the Benelli M4, a semi-auto shotgun so good the Marine Corps is replacing their Mossberg 500s with it. I haven't handled one, but the Benelli is the unquestioned best semi-auto shotgun on the market. I read a lot before I bought my Mossy, and the only negative thing anyone ever says about the Benelli is that it costs an arm and a leg. Is the extra money worth it? I don't know, my Mossberg runs pretty good, and cost about a third of what the Benelli would cost.
Here's the negatives that I don't like about my Mossberg: the parkerization is pretty thin on the barrel, if you don't wipe off a fingerprint on the barrel, you will have an orange spot. So far they've all come right off with a quick CLP wipe-down, but it's a problem, nonetheless. The other thing is that Mossberg failed miserably with their extended magazine tube. It just hangs out there like a lonely ding-dong, and imho needs a barrel clamp. I got the one from Nordic Components, which looks good, but you have to be careful with it. If you tighten the screws down too much, the clamp can pinch the magazine tube (which I also replaced with the Nordic Components tube in hopes of solving that problem) and can bind the follower.
On the bright side, as long as the magazine clamp isn't tightened down too much, I haven't had any malfunctions with it. It's much cheaper than the other two, which may or may not be a factor for you. If I had it to do over again, I'd save more pennies until I could afford the Benelli. $1800 is a ridiculous amount to spend on a shotgun, but like I said above, the only thing anyone seems to be able to find to bitch about is the price. Buy once, cry once, and all that.
As far as using a semi-auto for HD goes, I'm fully in favor. The semi-autos that are on the market today are much, much more reliable than were available a few years ago, and I think they're plenty good for home defense. Sure, pump guns will cycle anything and everything, and they're much simpler than a semi-auto, but a little practice will close the simplicity gap. Here's a little final food for thought about pump vs. autoloader: An autoloader does have a higher chance of a malfunction than a good pump, but the odds of that happening on any given shot are pretty doggone low, and they stay the same whether you're sighting in slugs off the bench, busting clays, or staring into the bloodshot eyes of your friendly neighborhood meth head. A pump will never malfunction at the range, but are you certain you'll FULLY cycle the action under stress? Although the odds of a malfunction with a pump are lower, they go way, way up under stress because they require conscious operator action to cycle the action.
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Really a personal preference, money aside, when you're looking at excellent firearms that are being discussed, such as Benelli M4, Mossberg 590A1 or Remington 870. They are all great shotguns. Now cycling under stress with a pump can be a consideration but then on the flip side, a jam could be possible in any semi-auto firearm, which may also be in the thought process...just saying. Currently I have a Mossberg 590A1 set up with a SureFire LM623 and Mesa LEO Recoil Stock, which I personally feel comfortable with and very much like, and a S&W 357 Magnum 65-3 Revolver just because. If someone gets past that, than lord help me.
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Not to be cocky but I own and have shot 870's, 1100's, 11-87's, 500's, 590's, M1's, M2's...
As far as a semi autos go, I truly believe there are no more reliable shotguns than the Benelli M1 or M2.
I truly love the 11-87. It runs perfectly with buckshot. It doesn't run perfectly with certain brands of birdshot.
While this isn't really a deal breaker for me in a home defense role, it would be in a SHTF scenario where I'd shoot any damn thing I could scrounge up.
Pump shotguns are reliable. The problem IMNSHO is operator error. I've seen more short strokes under stress than I've seen semi auto malfunctions.
The truth is that semi autos with full power double ought just run, and they run well.
Like I said, this is just my opinion. I bought both my Benelli's for under $1000. I don't know if the current madness has changed prices on shotguns but if so, the extra money would be money well spent.
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Regarding what type of shotgun to get for HD i personally would also choose a pump over a semi-auto just because I feel it is easier to operate and if you have a malfunction easier to clear.I know you sound set on a semi audio but I think you'll find most people tend to stray away from them for HD. You can also more easily load shells into the breech by hand one at a time. You can get pretty much get any pump for under 1k, I purchased a Mossberg 590A1 with the 18.5" barrel, pistol grip and M4 style adjustable stock last week at the LGS, Havent had a chance yet to shoot it but I also like the remington 870 and you can get any one of those 870's in any configuration for under 1k. Remington does have the blackhawk model that comes with a recoil absorbing adjustable stock. I know some people have experienced hurting their cheek with that particular setup however so YMMV...
For HD you will probably also want something with a short barrel, I'll be honest I am not real familiar with semi auto shotguns but I am guessing most of them use longer barrels just because they are meant more for hunting.
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For me part of defining HD is less than $400 so i don't feel so bad if it's ever sitting in an evidence locker for an extended period.
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Oh, one last gripe about the Mossberg: Their safety is stupid, and basically useless with a pistol grip. Damn, the more I write and think about it, the more I realize I should have been patient and bought the f&@#ing Benelli. :grrr:
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Oh, one last gripe about the Mossberg: Their safety is stupid, and basically useless with a pistol grip. Damn, the more I write and think about it, the more I realize I should have been patient and bought the f&@#ing Benelli. :grrr:
Their stupid saftey is only stupid if you have a pg. Otherwise I much perfer it to the 870's. I havea 590a1, like it. Wouldn't turn down an m4/m2 though.
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Yes I would also go with the pump then semi for surety! Semi may jam!
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If worried about jams, get a double barrel shotgun.
You can keep it loaded till the end of time and it will go boom when you pull the trigger.
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If worried about jams, get a double barrel shotgun.
You can keep it loaded till the end of time and it will go boom when you pull the trigger.
:rofl: Can't argue with that logic!
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Their stupid saftey is only stupid if you have a pg. Otherwise I much perfer it to the 870's. I havea 590a1, like it. Wouldn't turn down an m4/m2 though.
True, it works fine if you have the standard stock, but the Remington safety is equally useful regardless of what grip a guy runs.
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what about a taurus 45/410? best of both worlds.
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..., buy the best that you can afford since it is being used for self defense.
Good point. Though I do have my mind 90% in favor of a semi, I do hear what everyone has said in favor of them for an HD scenario.
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Had a bunch of failure to eject on my Mossberg 930SPX. Most were with target load and a few were with 00 buck. Same with any other gun, you're going to have to shoot it a bunch and with various ammo to see what it does and doesn't like.
For the recoil aspect with pump shotguns, have you looked into low recoil rounds? Almost the same as shooting birdshot/target loads.
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If worried about jams, get a double barrel shotgun.
You can keep it loaded till the end of time and it will go boom when you pull the trigger.
:rofl: Can't argue with that logic!
Well if someone wants to go that route...this is one I've have for many years that was used by numerous police departments and prisons, and won't let you down. A Stevens 12 GA 311R Double Barrel Riot Shotgun, which are pretty rare to come by these days. This shotgun is heavy duty and will almost never have a problem, plus has one hell of an intimidation factor.
(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Bunker9939/IMG_8571_zpseef99597.jpg)
(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Bunker9939/IMG_8574_zps6d5de6f8.jpg)
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dang that will be around until the apes take over and Charlton Heston is screaming at the statue of liberty
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A Stevens 12 GA 311R Double Barrel Riot Shotgun
(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a632/Bunker9939/IMG_8571_zpseef99597.jpg)
Damn you Bunker...
Why do you have the coolest guns?
Let me know first if that ones ever for sale.
PLEASE
:stopjack:
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Damn you Bunker...
Why do you have the coolest guns?
Let me know first if that ones ever for sale.
PLEASE
:stopjack:
Will do if I even decide to sell it. Great thing about dealing with you is I can rest assure whatever it is will be in good hands and well taken care of.
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Benelli good. Only jammed with really bad reloads. Kicks a bit hard though.